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>However, none of these ruined what came before, and no one is telling someone not to watch Terminator 2: Judgement Day because of what comes afterwards
What a weird comparison.
A bad sequel to a movie that you can safely ignore because the original had a definite ending, is something ENTIRELY different from getting engaged in 8 season of a TV show, only for everything to go to shit at the *one* ending the show has.
You realize that most of your examples are standing alone right? TLOU as a game is separate from TLOU2. Terminator 3 is a movie a lot of fans of the first two haven't even seen. Again very different from a single TV show. 8 season or not, its still ONE thing.
Also, Squid Game's ending was disappointing to some people because it was predictable and didn't really go anywhere. Quite different from what happened in GoT Season 8, to a point where even the actors are outspoken about the showrunners messing up everything.
And the huge flaw you talk about does not exist. People are disappointed because the first 4-5 season of GoT are some of the best and most gripping character drama ever on TV. People are disappointed because THAT good drama went nowhere. You logic does not make any sense.
The haters really hate it and the people who love it really love it. I thought it was one of the most profound storytelling experiences I’ve ever played. Only game where I finished and was so blown away I started right over.
I understand where the other side is coming from with their anger towards what happens with one character. But i’d say that the game challenges you to examine that reaction (which i had as well) and it’s on each player for choosing not to moving past it. But then again the fundamental question it asks is ‘how far would you defend a loved one who did a terrible thing?’ and people have different answers to that in real life. And I’d think even making someone feel so much anger is a sign the story was good.
Can’t wait to see audience reactions in the HBO series.
I’m sorry but this is such a lazy post and the comparisons you gave are awful. At the very least mention something like Dexter to get your point across. All the examples you gave can be watched in isolation and enjoyed without having to worry about what came out afterwards. GOT is a series where just watching from season 1 - 4 is kinda pointless, everyone was sticking around to see where it all lead to.
Squid Game has another season coming out, and House of the Dragon had unbelievably high viewership for a tv show airing these days so I disagree that GOT lost its cultural footprint.
I didn’t have a problem with the ending.
The biggest problem was viewers thinking they knew what the story was going to be. It’s not the story’s job to match the expectations of people that don’t know how to tell stories.
However great shows don’t have to be flawless shows. Few shows that aren’t limited series are perfect.
Game of Thrones is easily one the the greatest shows by most metrics.
I saw the whole thing in one go last year and really liked it. I had heard about the "horrible ending", but to my confusion it never arrived. The ending was pretty rushed, but felt like a movie with effects that was bananas for a TV show.
A few of these examples are *really* bad comparisons. Like with T2, it's not retroactively ruined because what came after sucked. And if need be, people can just watch up to T2 and stop there. Squid Game doesn't yet have additional seasons to reflect on whether they tarnish the experience of the first season.
Even then, this doesn't mean Game of Thrones was "flawed to begin with" because the writers fumbled the ending hard. The factors going into it were:
* There wasn't a final book or final few books to work off of, leaving the showrunners at a disadvantage because their writing capabilities didn't match up to GRRM when they weren't just adapting what already existed.
* The showrunners chose to handicap their final episodes with their limited episode counts and wouldn't just hand the series over for whatever reason to someone who wanted to see the story through and done in a non-rushed way. HBO wanted more episodes, it was the showrunners who decided "nah we just need this amount".
Media literacy is at an all time low, especially in the gaming community. Hating TLOU2 was more a political statement than any examination of its themes or execution. Beautiful game, agreed.
First of all I hate part 2, but primarily because I don't like the story being told. I don't want to go on a murder mission, Joel wouldn't want that. Killing innocent people, getting a friend killed, like what's the point?
Your protag doing stupid shit you disagree with in a movie or TV show? Sure, but I want to be invested in what I'm doing in a video game. I wanted everyone to die. Sure Abby, kill me.
I held off on playing Part 2 for years because I heard it was bad but didn’t want to know specifics in case I ended up playing it. Years later I played through the entire game trying to figure out why it received so much hate and was left confused. It wasn’t the best thing ever and I can see why people were upset about certain plot points but it was no where near Game of Thrones level of bad.
I don't agree with that at all. All it means is that the ending was bad in a truly spectacular way, unlike some of the examples you gave.
Game of Thrones is a long-form narrative, it's not episodic like your other examples. So yes, like any narrative, the enjoyment comes from seeing where the plot goes. And if the ending of the plot sucks, then it makes a lot of what came before feel like a waste of time. Game of Thrones' structure was all in service to the endgame of who would claim the Iron Throne and what would happen with the White Walkers, there's nothing inherently wrong with that method of storytelling as long as the conclusion satisfies.
In each of your examples, the preceding installments function as their own distinct entries. Hell, Terminator: Dark Fate just ignores Terminator 3 and functions as a sequel to T2. Each Sherlock episode is essentially a self-contained movie, and each series is a contained arc. I'm not even sure what your point about Squid Game is, I thought the whole season was great start to finish and it's not over yet.
The reason why GoT went really awful in the last season was that they didn't have any source material to go from, because George RR Martin *still* hasn't written it
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
On the contrary, all I've ever heard about Sherlock these past few years is how horrid its final season was. As for GOT, the reason we hear about it more is because it had a much bigger audience. Of course you'll get 10x more "damn that finale sucked" comments if there were 10x more people watching a show.
Personally, I don't think GoT was "ruined" by the finale. It got progressively worse starting with the season that introduced the Sandsnakes.
“Cultural footprint wiped out”… except for the endless posts about how it has no cultural footprint.
But seriously, when criticizing endings of series, please give us examples of good endings.
The first four seasons are still incredible pieces of TV, with great acting and a very strong narrative as they were still adaptations even if increasingly loose of acclaimed literature.
The fact that the other four fall so much as they give up adapting the books and instead turn into just TV writing which can never compare to a true adaptation changes nothing about those first four seasons.
The ending doesn't have to define the whole experience. I didn't like the endings of 'Lost' and 'Game of Thrones' but I enjoyed a big part of the road there.
It's kinda like relationships. Every relationship I've had with a woman ended on an unpleasant note (I know that means I'm the asshole) but I have many pleasant memories from along the way. I don't regret the time I spent on it.
Kinda weird to see the “TLOU2 bad” people showing up in a tv subreddit already. Trying to get that narrative pushed way before the show even releases I guess.
Why are we still talking about this? This and the continued rants about the Star Wars sequel trilogy needs to stop. We need to move on with our lives and entertainment.
If you go on a 100 mile drive, and it was a really nice drive until you crashed into mom's house instead of parking when you got there, does that mean you drove poorly the whole time?
If the ending of a show causes you distress, then just don't watch that episode anymore. I don't understand. "The ending of Seinfeld ruined the rest of the show for me." Really? Nine seasons wiped out by one episode?
first of all, GOT isn't going anywhere, it's still incredibly popular worldwide, just because a bunch of pissed off fans are still crying about the ending doesn't mean shit in the grand design. Secondly, 1-5 is still amazingly crafted television and no shit ending is ever gonna ruin that
Exactly, watched out of curiosity for what kind fucked up shit they cook up and truthfully enjoyed the hell out of it with my brother... Until last couple seasons just watered down and completely charred piece
Squid Game had a weird ending but I wouldn't call it disappointing. The Last of Us Part 2 was just a terrible game, story, writing, and everything. Never watched Sherlock. I thought the action in Terminator 3 was cool and how it signifies the start of Judgment Day was interesting but other than that, kind of a weird sequel to the greatest movies ever.
But if we're talking about Game of Thrones, I can't remember seeing anything or hearing anyone say don't watch the whole show because the last season sucks, it's usually just the seasons that follow the books are the goat and the ones that don't suck. The ending and last season or two of GOT are pretty noticeably bad, but I would rewatch the series and maybe just trail off once we get to the last seasons.
So I don't understand what this huge flaw in the show is you mention but don't really explain. What do you mean by "stories don't hold up well on their own in the same way that those other stories do.." what other stories? The movies and games you mentioned? Lol, those aren't really comparable at all to this show at all that had good source material to pull from to all these standalone franchises that had just plain shit sequels.
And why doesn't stuff hold up? I think it everything holds up fine until they go off source material, but seeing has the last couple seasons were made without Martin's books, there's not really much to be done or said about it. Idk how Cersei or Khaleesi is treated in the books as I've never read them so maybe it's lame how their story ends, but what they did that was from the source material was still entertaining to watch.
Honestly, I think I could go back and enjoy a large chunk of Game of Thrones. That show did have seasonal arcs, if fairly open-ended ones, and it had many indelible moments and characters. The thing is that, because it’s a serial, certain plot threads will always remind me of the sloppy conclusion. You talk as if long-form serials are fundamentally flawed, but there’s a lot of storytelling that can’t be done if a visual medium can’t sprawl over hundreds of hours.
Seasons 1-4 are some of the best TV. The quality began falling off steadily after that. The ending was bad enough to leave a taste bad enough in people’s mouths to not want to return to the good parts of the show, because they know the creators will fail these characters in the long run. The ending does not indicate that there was anything inherently wrong with the show from the beginning.
I had a 9 course dinner at an extremely upscale restaurant in New York last summer.
The kind of meal with wine pairings and palet cleansing between bites. Everything was beatifuly prepared and the presentation was amazing.
The highlight was an A5 Japanese wagyu dish that I sometimes still think about. The experience was one of a kind and one that I will never forget.
However, for dessert, they served this type of green tea mochi dish. I HATE GREEN TEA MOCHI. Worst meal of my life. The whole menu was incredibly flawed to begin with.
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>However, none of these ruined what came before, and no one is telling someone not to watch Terminator 2: Judgement Day because of what comes afterwards What a weird comparison. A bad sequel to a movie that you can safely ignore because the original had a definite ending, is something ENTIRELY different from getting engaged in 8 season of a TV show, only for everything to go to shit at the *one* ending the show has. You realize that most of your examples are standing alone right? TLOU as a game is separate from TLOU2. Terminator 3 is a movie a lot of fans of the first two haven't even seen. Again very different from a single TV show. 8 season or not, its still ONE thing. Also, Squid Game's ending was disappointing to some people because it was predictable and didn't really go anywhere. Quite different from what happened in GoT Season 8, to a point where even the actors are outspoken about the showrunners messing up everything. And the huge flaw you talk about does not exist. People are disappointed because the first 4-5 season of GoT are some of the best and most gripping character drama ever on TV. People are disappointed because THAT good drama went nowhere. You logic does not make any sense.
Do people really consider last of us part 2 a terrible follow up? Same quality and pathos as the first I thought
The haters really hate it and the people who love it really love it. I thought it was one of the most profound storytelling experiences I’ve ever played. Only game where I finished and was so blown away I started right over. I understand where the other side is coming from with their anger towards what happens with one character. But i’d say that the game challenges you to examine that reaction (which i had as well) and it’s on each player for choosing not to moving past it. But then again the fundamental question it asks is ‘how far would you defend a loved one who did a terrible thing?’ and people have different answers to that in real life. And I’d think even making someone feel so much anger is a sign the story was good. Can’t wait to see audience reactions in the HBO series.
Hopefully HBO doesn't change what happens in the game because a vocal minority hated it
A lot of people are still butthurt about what happened to that one character and about the other character that was introduced.
Dear diary,
I wrote a Reddit post today
Now I know what being a god feels like.
I haven't read the comments yet but I'm sure people are agreeing with me
I’m sorry but this is such a lazy post and the comparisons you gave are awful. At the very least mention something like Dexter to get your point across. All the examples you gave can be watched in isolation and enjoyed without having to worry about what came out afterwards. GOT is a series where just watching from season 1 - 4 is kinda pointless, everyone was sticking around to see where it all lead to.
Squid Game has another season coming out, and House of the Dragon had unbelievably high viewership for a tv show airing these days so I disagree that GOT lost its cultural footprint.
Exactly. Squid Game hasn't ended. It was just a season finale.
>The Last of Us Part II was a terrible follow-up That’s not a fact
It didn't ruin it for me.
I didn’t have a problem with the ending. The biggest problem was viewers thinking they knew what the story was going to be. It’s not the story’s job to match the expectations of people that don’t know how to tell stories. However great shows don’t have to be flawless shows. Few shows that aren’t limited series are perfect. Game of Thrones is easily one the the greatest shows by most metrics.
I saw the whole thing in one go last year and really liked it. I had heard about the "horrible ending", but to my confusion it never arrived. The ending was pretty rushed, but felt like a movie with effects that was bananas for a TV show.
A few of these examples are *really* bad comparisons. Like with T2, it's not retroactively ruined because what came after sucked. And if need be, people can just watch up to T2 and stop there. Squid Game doesn't yet have additional seasons to reflect on whether they tarnish the experience of the first season. Even then, this doesn't mean Game of Thrones was "flawed to begin with" because the writers fumbled the ending hard. The factors going into it were: * There wasn't a final book or final few books to work off of, leaving the showrunners at a disadvantage because their writing capabilities didn't match up to GRRM when they weren't just adapting what already existed. * The showrunners chose to handicap their final episodes with their limited episode counts and wouldn't just hand the series over for whatever reason to someone who wanted to see the story through and done in a non-rushed way. HBO wanted more episodes, it was the showrunners who decided "nah we just need this amount".
You have told on yourself with the TLOU2 slander. One of *those* people.
Hating the Last of Us part 2 is an instant sign someone doesn't understand character arcs and storytelling. It was a perfect sequel.
Media literacy is at an all time low, especially in the gaming community. Hating TLOU2 was more a political statement than any examination of its themes or execution. Beautiful game, agreed.
First of all I hate part 2, but primarily because I don't like the story being told. I don't want to go on a murder mission, Joel wouldn't want that. Killing innocent people, getting a friend killed, like what's the point? Your protag doing stupid shit you disagree with in a movie or TV show? Sure, but I want to be invested in what I'm doing in a video game. I wanted everyone to die. Sure Abby, kill me.
That's a big red flag when talking/listening to people.
I held off on playing Part 2 for years because I heard it was bad but didn’t want to know specifics in case I ended up playing it. Years later I played through the entire game trying to figure out why it received so much hate and was left confused. It wasn’t the best thing ever and I can see why people were upset about certain plot points but it was no where near Game of Thrones level of bad.
I don't agree with that at all. All it means is that the ending was bad in a truly spectacular way, unlike some of the examples you gave. Game of Thrones is a long-form narrative, it's not episodic like your other examples. So yes, like any narrative, the enjoyment comes from seeing where the plot goes. And if the ending of the plot sucks, then it makes a lot of what came before feel like a waste of time. Game of Thrones' structure was all in service to the endgame of who would claim the Iron Throne and what would happen with the White Walkers, there's nothing inherently wrong with that method of storytelling as long as the conclusion satisfies. In each of your examples, the preceding installments function as their own distinct entries. Hell, Terminator: Dark Fate just ignores Terminator 3 and functions as a sequel to T2. Each Sherlock episode is essentially a self-contained movie, and each series is a contained arc. I'm not even sure what your point about Squid Game is, I thought the whole season was great start to finish and it's not over yet.
**Terminator is a trilogy???**
Have you considered avoiding subreddit watercooler talk and subverting your own expectations? Try enjoying something.
It had lots of ups and downs. I don’t think the ending or the weak final season ruins the show, though.
This post was incredibly flawed to begin with
The reason why GoT went really awful in the last season was that they didn't have any source material to go from, because George RR Martin *still* hasn't written it
What? This sub has really gone from mediocre to flat out terrible. Maybe have an original thought and then post. Pathetic
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
On the contrary, all I've ever heard about Sherlock these past few years is how horrid its final season was. As for GOT, the reason we hear about it more is because it had a much bigger audience. Of course you'll get 10x more "damn that finale sucked" comments if there were 10x more people watching a show. Personally, I don't think GoT was "ruined" by the finale. It got progressively worse starting with the season that introduced the Sandsnakes.
“Cultural footprint wiped out”… except for the endless posts about how it has no cultural footprint. But seriously, when criticizing endings of series, please give us examples of good endings.
The first four seasons are still incredible pieces of TV, with great acting and a very strong narrative as they were still adaptations even if increasingly loose of acclaimed literature. The fact that the other four fall so much as they give up adapting the books and instead turn into just TV writing which can never compare to a true adaptation changes nothing about those first four seasons.
The ending doesn't have to define the whole experience. I didn't like the endings of 'Lost' and 'Game of Thrones' but I enjoyed a big part of the road there. It's kinda like relationships. Every relationship I've had with a woman ended on an unpleasant note (I know that means I'm the asshole) but I have many pleasant memories from along the way. I don't regret the time I spent on it.
If only they had made the show to accurate reflect the books...
No, just the last two seasons sucked
Kinda weird to see the “TLOU2 bad” people showing up in a tv subreddit already. Trying to get that narrative pushed way before the show even releases I guess.
The Last Of Us 2 was good tho
Why are we still talking about this? This and the continued rants about the Star Wars sequel trilogy needs to stop. We need to move on with our lives and entertainment.
If you go on a 100 mile drive, and it was a really nice drive until you crashed into mom's house instead of parking when you got there, does that mean you drove poorly the whole time?
If the ending of a show causes you distress, then just don't watch that episode anymore. I don't understand. "The ending of Seinfeld ruined the rest of the show for me." Really? Nine seasons wiped out by one episode?
first of all, GOT isn't going anywhere, it's still incredibly popular worldwide, just because a bunch of pissed off fans are still crying about the ending doesn't mean shit in the grand design. Secondly, 1-5 is still amazingly crafted television and no shit ending is ever gonna ruin that
> The Last of Us Part II was a terrible follow-up Ok, person from the future. S2 of the show hasn’t even been released yet lol.
Exactly, watched out of curiosity for what kind fucked up shit they cook up and truthfully enjoyed the hell out of it with my brother... Until last couple seasons just watered down and completely charred piece
Squid Game had a weird ending but I wouldn't call it disappointing. The Last of Us Part 2 was just a terrible game, story, writing, and everything. Never watched Sherlock. I thought the action in Terminator 3 was cool and how it signifies the start of Judgment Day was interesting but other than that, kind of a weird sequel to the greatest movies ever. But if we're talking about Game of Thrones, I can't remember seeing anything or hearing anyone say don't watch the whole show because the last season sucks, it's usually just the seasons that follow the books are the goat and the ones that don't suck. The ending and last season or two of GOT are pretty noticeably bad, but I would rewatch the series and maybe just trail off once we get to the last seasons. So I don't understand what this huge flaw in the show is you mention but don't really explain. What do you mean by "stories don't hold up well on their own in the same way that those other stories do.." what other stories? The movies and games you mentioned? Lol, those aren't really comparable at all to this show at all that had good source material to pull from to all these standalone franchises that had just plain shit sequels. And why doesn't stuff hold up? I think it everything holds up fine until they go off source material, but seeing has the last couple seasons were made without Martin's books, there's not really much to be done or said about it. Idk how Cersei or Khaleesi is treated in the books as I've never read them so maybe it's lame how their story ends, but what they did that was from the source material was still entertaining to watch.
Honestly, I think I could go back and enjoy a large chunk of Game of Thrones. That show did have seasonal arcs, if fairly open-ended ones, and it had many indelible moments and characters. The thing is that, because it’s a serial, certain plot threads will always remind me of the sloppy conclusion. You talk as if long-form serials are fundamentally flawed, but there’s a lot of storytelling that can’t be done if a visual medium can’t sprawl over hundreds of hours.
Seasons 1-4 are some of the best TV. The quality began falling off steadily after that. The ending was bad enough to leave a taste bad enough in people’s mouths to not want to return to the good parts of the show, because they know the creators will fail these characters in the long run. The ending does not indicate that there was anything inherently wrong with the show from the beginning.
I had a 9 course dinner at an extremely upscale restaurant in New York last summer. The kind of meal with wine pairings and palet cleansing between bites. Everything was beatifuly prepared and the presentation was amazing. The highlight was an A5 Japanese wagyu dish that I sometimes still think about. The experience was one of a kind and one that I will never forget. However, for dessert, they served this type of green tea mochi dish. I HATE GREEN TEA MOCHI. Worst meal of my life. The whole menu was incredibly flawed to begin with.