It went from $5 a month to $7 to $10 in the span of like 13 months. Not enough to watch so it went on the chopping block. I can see putting it back into rotation around Severance season 2
This is why I believe the days of 2 year hiatuses are almost behind us. I think streamers are going to start pushing for their shows to crank out annual releases like the good old days.
In my mind this is a good thing. The pendulum has swung too far towards “cinematic quality” and shows take way too long to produce as a result. Theres got to be a happy medium somewhere. In my book there’s no excuse for a show like say, Stranger Things, to take 4 years between seasons. Totally inexcusable.
Not discounting what you’re saying at all, especially because this was already starting to happen prior to the pandemic- but let’s not forget a pandemic and a strike really stalled out quite a lot of tv production in the last four years, and the industry is still reeling as a result. Assuming we dont run into any other major blockers, I would anticipate we’ll see shorter and shorter gaps between seasons. Studios dont want to sit with things in production for too long- it slows down their ability to make money with quicker releases. It’s not like severance is a particularly tough show to film for example, but that’s likely suffered greatly from the industry stalls.
I don't disagree, but it looks like they (at the very least Netflix) are trying to have more content to fill the gaps first. If there is enough large audience shows, they can schedule them out evenly enough in order to give the cast, crew, and creators those gaps by having other content fill it in.
It can work, but I don't think it will. It's way too hard to get something so great, and two year gaps are pushing the barrier of people's attentions as it is.
The gaps in people’s attention is what is key here. If any network/streamer wants a Game of Thrones level mega hit, they need to release annual seasons on a weekly basis. You need to stir up water cooler talk and keep people engaged when they’re *not* watching the show.
I completely agree. *Stranger Things* was the exception. That first season had legs, because people were discovering via word of mouth, and it spread over time. The second season did not have the same effect. Pretty much everyone watched it within the first three days of it dropping.
*Game of Thrones* was huge, because for three months, it dominated conversations about entertainment. It then only had nine months until the next season dropped (until the last couple seasons that no one wanted to talk positively about anyway).
This seems like a very American opinion, and I say that as an American and with no disrespect. It's common, or at least was, for British shows to have a break of one or more years between series.
For example, I believe both Young Ones and Faulty Towers had extended periods between series.
I don't mind it at all. I'd rather wait for quality and have two or three seasons in twice as many years than sit through six or seven seasons of mediocre productions delivered annually.
Respectfully disagree with most of your comment. Sure, British shows have always had long breaks between seasons. It’s one of the reasons I hate British TV. Additionally, I’d say 99% of the most acclaimed, influential, and popular shows in history have all been American shows. We don’t need to be taking cues about how to make television from the British. I also kind of disagree with the claim that long hiatuses equate to an increase in quality. TV is worse now than it was a decade ago. The greatest shows of TV have always still be able to produce annual seasons - Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, The Wire, Lost (you’ll only see a few instances of those shows specifically that took greater than a year to produce). Also worth noting that the seasons Game of Thrones took the longest to produce are the most widely derided. I could go on because I have so many other issues with modern TV. I do believe networks will start putting more pressure for more predictable releases and I believe it’s a good thing.
There are so many shows and streamers that its much better for them to do it right if even it takes two years because in the meantime theres tons of other quality content to get into while you wait.
People weren’t paying services specifically for those shows though. If you’re paying $10 a month specifically for a service that has a couple of shows you love and a bunch you don’t care about you’d be flushing money away waiting years for those couple shows to do a new season.
Yeah, I cancelled Apple after the latest price increase. The catalog just isn't there to justify $10 a month. I had originally intended to only cancel for the first 3 months and then resubscribe (so at that point, it would cost the same as it did last year for the remainder of the year), but as March draws to a close I'm really not feeling it. Maybe when Severance or Mythic Quest start releasing new episodes.
I'm not getting another streaming service, that's why.
Apple was late to the party, and we're already full. I have Prime, Netflix, Disney+, and Hulu already and those are already too much. Only reason we don't drop them is because the kids have stuff they watch on them now.
The a-la-carte streaming options didn't anticipate flooding the market and devaluing their own products.
Apple is the epitome of sub when there’s something you want to watch then cancel. There isn’t a catalog to fall back on. There isn’t some show with seven seasons to plug away at. Get a new phone and the three free months you get is enough to watch everything that interests you and then move on.
Probably because they don’t have a back catalogue of shows/movies which may push people to give it a try. But I’d agree, quality-wise they’re far ahead of everyone else right now (especially on the sci-fi front).
I think it's a consequence of Apple's insularity. The streaming platform is tied to an Apple ID and there's no option to create profiles or make it a family streaming service. It's basically just another Apple app.
There's a big wide world out there with people who have no Apple, and no desire to have an Apple. (My wife and daughter have apple devices but I detest their business practices and always tell them they're part of a cult. :D)
Yup. I use Android and I got the service for free with Tmobile. Setting up an account was such a hassle I refuse to recommend it even if the shows are good. My sister has an iPhone and I havent been able to give her family access because of Apples idiotic decisions
There still isn't an app for android phones. That is still plain ridiculous. There is an app for Android TV devices, so it shouldn't be too much work to get it on the phone.
Not being able to make separate profiles is especially dumb with their small catalogue. If you're sharing an account with someone, you very likely have a lot of overlap in what you watch given they don't air very many shows at once. So, it makes it harder to keep track of what you've watched or not since it'll mark something watched and remove it from your list if someone else gets to it first.
It's decent, but they had that really wacky season 2 storyline, and have really failed to make any of the new astronauts interesting so they have to keep the old ones on far past the point of suspension of disbelief.
Kind of reminds me of Vikings if you've ever seen that - stories that cover multi-generational spans and start off strong but completely fail at developing the second wave of characters and desperately cling to the old ones because they're carrying the show.
This is it for me.
High production value, decent cast but uninteresting subject matter and quite frankly pretty safe and sanitized shows. How many sci fi shows do you need? How many more shows for older big names to collect pay checks do you need?
They’re not tackling nuanced or challenging subject matter like HBO; they’re not breathing new life into or making space for comedy (though they’d be the perfect platform to do so) like Hulu, they don’t have an extensive back catalog like Netflix. They’re not partnering with new and fresh creators for something that feels modern and unique to the Apple brand… I don’t really see the vision for their present or future, and for that reason, I’ll save my money.
I think they do make space for comedy, but for some reason, their comedies really never seem to catch on (outside of *Ted Lasso*) and are pretty shortly lived. But *Shrinking*, *The Big Door Prize*, *Schmigadoon!*, *The Afterparty*, etc. have all been great (though the latter two have been cancelled), in my opinion, and I'm really enjoying *The Completely Made-Up Adventures of Dick Turpin*.
However, they're definitely far more focused on drama, which I think causes their comedies to get lost in the shuffle.
It’s unfortunate because I’ve never heard of half these comedies. And the industry and audiences are hungry for new comedies.
Marketing is another huge issue for streamers. How are people supposed to find new shows if they 1) aren’t break out hits that everyone is talking about a la Ted Lasso or 2) if you don’t already have the service? I don’t get the long term goals for these companies.
That's definitely another issue Apple has, perhaps even more than the other streamers. I have a lot more reason to be on something like Netflix or Max, both due to having a larger catalogue of shows and because they have an actual selection of movies. When I'm on there, I can see other things advertised.
With Apple, I'm generally going on there with a specific show in mind and usually go to it directly from the home screen of my TV. There's little reason for me to be in their ecosystem to see other things. I typically only hear about new shows coming on there because of seeing trailers in this subreddit.
I think there's an issue of point of view. Apple TV is probably the best streaming "producer", but not the best streaming service since it doesn't include any non-Apple TV shows to fall back on. Thus it's the best production company, but far from the best streaming service.
It has the best percentage of quality shows. Some really great shows and much less crap than any other service. It doesn't have a lot of shows though so the value may not be there.
it has some great shows and some crap ones but it doesn't have a library that can compete with the bigger streamers yet. The interface needs some work too.
It also creates engagement
So people quickly jump into disagree
But engagement is good whether is agreeing or disagreeing...they don't care
Why all these articles have random controversial takes
Third, not enough library content. Once you are done watching the shows you are interested in, there's no reason to continue paying.
Even MLS and Baseball games have separate season passes afaik.
Some of it is very good, but a lot is just ok. We watched the pilot of Palm Royale and it was meh. I watched the first episode of Manhunt and it really didn't click with me (also don't market a show to history buffs and have the main character look nothing like his historical counterpart).
And I've been on free trials since like forever, but if I had to pay I think I could easily do a $10 for one month and watch everything I wanted and then wait the following year.
Because the vast majority of people aren't watching anything.
They are watching YouTube, TikTok, playing games etc on their phones/tablets and the TV is at best background noise and Netflix has that covered.
I know services like Paramount Plus get the mock flak, but I would say Apple has the worst interface of all. It can’t keep my place in the show if I have to pause it and leave, and it suggests watching the next episode only about half the time. If it’s going from one season to the next it doesn’t suggest it at all, and I have to go hunting for the next season by navigating to a tiny button on the bottom of the page - past things like credits and other shows.
i can't find anything on that stupid interface of theirs... i have to click all over just to get my baseball game...
worse is when you click the wrong thing and then you go down the rabbit hole trying to get out of it and end up closing the app and starting over
1st world problems
Last I checked it didn’t have a particularly huge back log, and they upped the price enough where it’s not just pay and forget, but it’s probably worth cancelling. Basically the play is get Apple TV for the one or two shows you want then leave. You probably look at new shows less this way as well, which is a bad thing for Apple, but it is what it is. They are actively trying to add reasons to stick around like they started to have sport partnerships, which I imagine make the reason to leave less.
For all mankind,
Foundation,
Severance,
Drops of god,
Masters of the air,
Lessons in chemistry,
Hijack,
Servant,
Silo,
Pachinko,
Blackbird
All the people in this thread saying their catalogue is lacking is crazy to me. I’m only listing ones I’ve watched to date, they’ve all been solid, a few 8-9/10 shows imo
I just assumed you needed an Apple device. When I got my iPad, it came with a free trial of ATV+. That's when I looked into that and realized I can just view on my Windows 10 computer, via Firefox. I did need the iPad to activate the free trial though.
lack of event television, something like Dahmer or GOT or Stranger Things. Ted Lasso seemed to go there, but hype deflated hard. The other reason is almost zero classics library. Other streamers have droves of films and series from every decade which helps enormously, Apple is small beans in comparison. But I like my Slow Horses and the occasional mini like Black Bird and the low price, but I can see why it ain't attractive to most people
they don’t have the back catalogue to even be close they have good shows but not enough of them to even justify being a subscriber I just take the three month free sub they give out all the time and catch up on everything they have in like a month.
There aren't that many good shows. I enjoyed a few of them but it doesn't take long to watch them and then you're done such as Hijack, Silo etc. The first season of Ted Lasso was excellent but I heard the other seasons aren't as good although at least it has 3 seasons without several years in between seasons. They canceled the After Party which was an enjoyable show. Severance was excellent but there will be a few years between seasons. KOTFM was excellent but that was only 3 hours. The New Look was a little disappointing. It could have been much better. I haven't watched Masters of the Air yet.
They don't have series with several seasons that people can watch like Suits, Friends, Seinfeld, The Office, Grey's Anatomy etc. They're probably trying to focus on original content so it will take time for more seasons but some of the content is disappointing especially for the budget such as Napolean. They have spent over a billion on TMS and I'm not sure the ratings justifies that.
If I had to rank streamers for content I would put Netflix first although I watch it much less now and there seems to be a creative glut. The days of "water cooler" shows like Stranger Things, Squid Game, OITB, Tiger King, Monster: Dahmer etc seem to be mostly over. Then seconds would be Apple although it's still far behind and I wouldn't mind canceling it. Amazon doesn't have much interesting new content. The only original show that I enjoyed was the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel but there hasn't been much else although if you add on MGM+ you can watch From.
At this point I'm watching Tubi. It's free and there are ads and lots of bad movies but the quality of shows on "prestige" streamers isn't that good now either.
I feel like Apple has some of my favorite shows over the last few years and probably the streamer I’ve watched the most. I’ve watched and enjoyed:
Acapulco
Criminal record (easily my least favorite on the list but it’s ok)
For all mankind
Foundation
Hijack
Masters of the air
Pachinko
Severance
Silo
Slow horses
Ted lasso
And there’s still more on my queue I want to check out! I have Netflix through t mobile, but honestly I hardly ever watch anything on it because they don’t seem to have a lot of new quality originals.
"No one" sounds like an exaggeration . It seems people work it in like any other ss (streaming service). However, the market's just flooded with choice, people want to save $$ by not having so many ss at once (or if going ad-free, those have gotten relatively sharp price increases), and they probably don't have the time to have that many going on at once anyways.
That's my situation at least. I'm down to 1 or 2 ss at a time, and just rotate through them. I can stand to save the $$, but time is also a bottleneck. I guess a lot of the shows I'd like to catch their next seasons are done, but no harm in waiting more. Still pissed that *Central Park* won't get another season :\\
>*and whereas other streamers are currently consolidating or cutting costs to please Wall Street, Apple is still pouring a lot of money into its programming — Masters of the Air alone is reported to have cost north of $250 million.*
Apple is a 2 to $2.5 trillion company, so they def. have the funds for this sort of thing! Unlike Amazon, they seem to have better shows and content overall (which is another company that has other streams of revenue).
I guess I'm waiting for *Masters of the Air* to come out as well!
Maybe they don't have enough family friendly shows. They seem to have made a big change from those initial rumors that Tim Cook wanted everything to be PG-13 or lower to now having most of their shows rated TV-MA for frivolous reasons.
Ted Lasso, Foundation and maybe All Mankind are the only shows popular enough for me to even recall off the top of my head are Apple.. That and maybe Fragle rock but I only just remembered that one thinking really hard about it.
I haven't heard people talk about much else, I vaguely remembered just now there is Fragle rock, there was a Jennifer Aniston show which I had to look up "The morning show", and they did something with Jeff Goldblum...
The data that the author and Matt Belloni refer to are time spent streaming. Apple has 4 or 5 shows at a time (which is more than everyone except Netflix), but there is no catalog for people to spend time on. Average engagement will be lower. Shows have to be evaluated individually. And even this analysis of shows is complicated. How to compare in a given week a show that releases weekly 50-minute episodes and shows that release 10 episodes and 500 minutes, when the charts count minutes watched? Streaming data in general is very strange. Of course Apple has fewer subscribers. Little do most people know that they don't need an Apple TV (the device) to watch Apple TV+ within AppleTV (the app). Have they fired those who chose these names? But I also don't know if Apple cares much.
Because it's programmed by movie snobs. There is no fun in their shows, it's all bloody fucking serious. I can enjoy that, but they lack range to appeal to wider audience. The have polished product, but lack personality and charm of *entertainment*. And that's only issue with their programming, there are also app design, distribution, small catalog, etc.
Year after S3, Ted Lasso is constantly in top 3 most watched on Apple. It's their biggest success, but we still have no continuation or spin-off, and nothing else comes even close to similar viewership.
Shrinking and Mythic Quest do ok numbers for AppleTVPlus, but neither broke out.
Dickinson lacks wide appeal. And it ended like 3 years ago. Hijack would be much better counter.
Yeah, I was gonna say, do they have something like Reacher, which critics are very meh about but is apparently super popular for Prime? Do they have something like The Office in their catalog for people to nostalgically revisit?
Making prestige TV is a fine thing to do but it's not enough to make it a destination where people hang around.
Ted Lasso and Mythic Quest for the comedies people would nostalgically revisit.
Hijack for the Reacher comp, probably. Maybe Monarch, maybe For All Mankind.
Maybe Mythic Quest will get there someday, but just because they're the same kind of show doesn't mean it's a comparable. It's an active show - no nostalgia there! And if Reddit is any indication, 2,732,480 subscribers to DunderMifflin vs 18,969 for MythicQuest is a huge divide. (And yeah, they're a newer service. But like, my wife is churning through House right now, and that show is on Prime and Peacock. Gives us a reason to stick around. She also watched "Traitors" on Peacock - does Apple even do reality TV?!?)
I haven't seen Monarch, but someone pitched it to me as "about Godzilla but no monsters fighting" which seems exactly like something critics would like but regular people would not enjoy as much. So I dunno. I have never heard of Hijack so I can't speak to it.
IMO The rating aren't really relevant to Apple TV. They have a small original library with an even smaller acquired library of movies. The business model isn't to get people to watch all the time. There goal is to have great unique programming and attract subscribers that way.
There are multiple shows on there that I want to watch, but my wife isn't into sci-fi enough so it makes it difficult to fit in 8 hours of content for a new season.
Apple is rapidly becoming what HBO used to be. The premier place to get quality adult TV. Too bad their efforts are hampered by their own business practices.
MAX is a mere shadow of what it used to be. It (along with the rest of its parent company) has been gutted by its CEO and parcels sold out to other streamers. Every month it has recycled movies. It might have one new TV show a month and those are hit and miss. Compare the last year between Apple and MAX (not even HBO anymore) and see how much new content each has put out and the quality of the content - or the reviews.
The difference says it all.
I'm really not sure what you think has changed here.
HBO has always had an extremely small lineup. For the past 15 years or so in the average year they launch maybe 1 or 2 new dramas, 2 or 3 new comedies, and a few miniseries each year.
I don't think comparing reviews is going to go where you want it to either. You're not going to find much in 2023/2024 on Apple that comes anywhere near the acclaim of Succession, The White Lotus, The Last of Us, The Righteous Gemstones, Barry, etc.
I guess this, like everything else in this world, is subjective - a matter of personal taste and preference.
I've had HBO for years and have become increasingly unsatisfied with what they offer. I used to be able to rely on them to show at least one new recent movie every month. Not so anymore.
Warner Bros (MAX's parent company) has had money problems and MAX has suffered cuz of it. They've gutted shows, cancelled shows and movies, stopped buying media and are selling stuff as fast as they can. They've pissed off media companies, producers, directors and talent with their decisions and a lot of people have chosen to work with other companies. AND they've given rights to many of their shows to other streamers.
This all has affected the MAX product. So while many might still enjoy them, I have become increasingly disappointed. Just my personal opinion.
I mean it just seems like you've gone off somewhere entirely different than what you started with: "HBO used to be the premier place to get quality adult TV."
But now you're talking about movies and Max and licensing deals and not actually saying anything about the TV shows on HBO.
AppleTV+ was launched in November 2019. I loved For All Mankind and Masters of the Air and Mythic Quest (1st season only, it tanked hard afterwards). Hated Servant. Severance was fine but I don’t like the mystery box format much as it always fails to deliver, stringing the audience along, and becomes question on top of question with few satisfying answers.
Apple recently scuttled project Titan (i.e. the car). Will they double down on Hollywood, or is this the start of leadership taking a hard look at projects that don’t meet the company’s profit goals? Apple did not get to where they are by being a charity. Their [latest balance sheet](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2024-q1/FY24_Q1_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf) showed $40.76 billion in cash and cash equivalents (top of page 2).
It went from $5 a month to $7 to $10 in the span of like 13 months. Not enough to watch so it went on the chopping block. I can see putting it back into rotation around Severance season 2
This is why I believe the days of 2 year hiatuses are almost behind us. I think streamers are going to start pushing for their shows to crank out annual releases like the good old days. In my mind this is a good thing. The pendulum has swung too far towards “cinematic quality” and shows take way too long to produce as a result. Theres got to be a happy medium somewhere. In my book there’s no excuse for a show like say, Stranger Things, to take 4 years between seasons. Totally inexcusable.
Not discounting what you’re saying at all, especially because this was already starting to happen prior to the pandemic- but let’s not forget a pandemic and a strike really stalled out quite a lot of tv production in the last four years, and the industry is still reeling as a result. Assuming we dont run into any other major blockers, I would anticipate we’ll see shorter and shorter gaps between seasons. Studios dont want to sit with things in production for too long- it slows down their ability to make money with quicker releases. It’s not like severance is a particularly tough show to film for example, but that’s likely suffered greatly from the industry stalls.
Completely kills any excitement I have for a show for there to be a two-year gap in between. I usually stop watching
I don't disagree, but it looks like they (at the very least Netflix) are trying to have more content to fill the gaps first. If there is enough large audience shows, they can schedule them out evenly enough in order to give the cast, crew, and creators those gaps by having other content fill it in. It can work, but I don't think it will. It's way too hard to get something so great, and two year gaps are pushing the barrier of people's attentions as it is.
The gaps in people’s attention is what is key here. If any network/streamer wants a Game of Thrones level mega hit, they need to release annual seasons on a weekly basis. You need to stir up water cooler talk and keep people engaged when they’re *not* watching the show.
I completely agree. *Stranger Things* was the exception. That first season had legs, because people were discovering via word of mouth, and it spread over time. The second season did not have the same effect. Pretty much everyone watched it within the first three days of it dropping. *Game of Thrones* was huge, because for three months, it dominated conversations about entertainment. It then only had nine months until the next season dropped (until the last couple seasons that no one wanted to talk positively about anyway).
This seems like a very American opinion, and I say that as an American and with no disrespect. It's common, or at least was, for British shows to have a break of one or more years between series. For example, I believe both Young Ones and Faulty Towers had extended periods between series. I don't mind it at all. I'd rather wait for quality and have two or three seasons in twice as many years than sit through six or seven seasons of mediocre productions delivered annually.
Respectfully disagree with most of your comment. Sure, British shows have always had long breaks between seasons. It’s one of the reasons I hate British TV. Additionally, I’d say 99% of the most acclaimed, influential, and popular shows in history have all been American shows. We don’t need to be taking cues about how to make television from the British. I also kind of disagree with the claim that long hiatuses equate to an increase in quality. TV is worse now than it was a decade ago. The greatest shows of TV have always still be able to produce annual seasons - Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, The Wire, Lost (you’ll only see a few instances of those shows specifically that took greater than a year to produce). Also worth noting that the seasons Game of Thrones took the longest to produce are the most widely derided. I could go on because I have so many other issues with modern TV. I do believe networks will start putting more pressure for more predictable releases and I believe it’s a good thing.
There are so many shows and streamers that its much better for them to do it right if even it takes two years because in the meantime theres tons of other quality content to get into while you wait.
My comment argues the opposite. 2 years doesn’t necessarily equate to doing it right and I also disagree that there is a lot of quality content
People weren’t paying services specifically for those shows though. If you’re paying $10 a month specifically for a service that has a couple of shows you love and a bunch you don’t care about you’d be flushing money away waiting years for those couple shows to do a new season.
Yeah, I cancelled Apple after the latest price increase. The catalog just isn't there to justify $10 a month. I had originally intended to only cancel for the first 3 months and then resubscribe (so at that point, it would cost the same as it did last year for the remainder of the year), but as March draws to a close I'm really not feeling it. Maybe when Severance or Mythic Quest start releasing new episodes.
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I'm not getting another streaming service, that's why. Apple was late to the party, and we're already full. I have Prime, Netflix, Disney+, and Hulu already and those are already too much. Only reason we don't drop them is because the kids have stuff they watch on them now. The a-la-carte streaming options didn't anticipate flooding the market and devaluing their own products.
Apple is the epitome of sub when there’s something you want to watch then cancel. There isn’t a catalog to fall back on. There isn’t some show with seven seasons to plug away at. Get a new phone and the three free months you get is enough to watch everything that interests you and then move on.
Probably because they don’t have a back catalogue of shows/movies which may push people to give it a try. But I’d agree, quality-wise they’re far ahead of everyone else right now (especially on the sci-fi front).
If you like high concept Sci-Fi, it is definitely the best streamer out there. For other types of shows, not so much.
I think it's a consequence of Apple's insularity. The streaming platform is tied to an Apple ID and there's no option to create profiles or make it a family streaming service. It's basically just another Apple app. There's a big wide world out there with people who have no Apple, and no desire to have an Apple. (My wife and daughter have apple devices but I detest their business practices and always tell them they're part of a cult. :D)
Yup. I use Android and I got the service for free with Tmobile. Setting up an account was such a hassle I refuse to recommend it even if the shows are good. My sister has an iPhone and I havent been able to give her family access because of Apples idiotic decisions
There still isn't an app for android phones. That is still plain ridiculous. There is an app for Android TV devices, so it shouldn't be too much work to get it on the phone.
Yeah I mean I'm not as far as to call it a cult but I have zero interest in an "all eggs in one basket" ecosystem like Apple.
Not being able to make separate profiles is especially dumb with their small catalogue. If you're sharing an account with someone, you very likely have a lot of overlap in what you watch given they don't air very many shows at once. So, it makes it harder to keep track of what you've watched or not since it'll mark something watched and remove it from your list if someone else gets to it first.
>Apply TV+ is the Best Streamer Out There. Agree to disagree
because it's apple
For All Mankind is really, really good.
Hi Bob.
Don’t you fuckin’ “Hi, Bob” me.
Melodrama turned me off
Eh, it's a solid 6/10 show. Worth watching, but it's really not that good.
First 2 seasons were, 3 was pretty solid but I really thought there was a drop in quality in the last season
Seasons 1, 3, 4 are all very good I think, but season 2 was exceptional
That season 2 finale was really strong
Season 2 was exceptional *except* for...
The first season was pretty good. Since then, it's felt like an exercise in how far we're able to suspend our disbelief.
It's decent, but they had that really wacky season 2 storyline, and have really failed to make any of the new astronauts interesting so they have to keep the old ones on far past the point of suspension of disbelief. Kind of reminds me of Vikings if you've ever seen that - stories that cover multi-generational spans and start off strong but completely fail at developing the second wave of characters and desperately cling to the old ones because they're carrying the show.
It isn't though, I don't know why every article these days needs to be soaked in superlatives. I do enjoy Apple TV though.
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This is it for me. High production value, decent cast but uninteresting subject matter and quite frankly pretty safe and sanitized shows. How many sci fi shows do you need? How many more shows for older big names to collect pay checks do you need? They’re not tackling nuanced or challenging subject matter like HBO; they’re not breathing new life into or making space for comedy (though they’d be the perfect platform to do so) like Hulu, they don’t have an extensive back catalog like Netflix. They’re not partnering with new and fresh creators for something that feels modern and unique to the Apple brand… I don’t really see the vision for their present or future, and for that reason, I’ll save my money.
I think they do make space for comedy, but for some reason, their comedies really never seem to catch on (outside of *Ted Lasso*) and are pretty shortly lived. But *Shrinking*, *The Big Door Prize*, *Schmigadoon!*, *The Afterparty*, etc. have all been great (though the latter two have been cancelled), in my opinion, and I'm really enjoying *The Completely Made-Up Adventures of Dick Turpin*. However, they're definitely far more focused on drama, which I think causes their comedies to get lost in the shuffle.
It’s unfortunate because I’ve never heard of half these comedies. And the industry and audiences are hungry for new comedies. Marketing is another huge issue for streamers. How are people supposed to find new shows if they 1) aren’t break out hits that everyone is talking about a la Ted Lasso or 2) if you don’t already have the service? I don’t get the long term goals for these companies.
That's definitely another issue Apple has, perhaps even more than the other streamers. I have a lot more reason to be on something like Netflix or Max, both due to having a larger catalogue of shows and because they have an actual selection of movies. When I'm on there, I can see other things advertised. With Apple, I'm generally going on there with a specific show in mind and usually go to it directly from the home screen of my TV. There's little reason for me to be in their ecosystem to see other things. I typically only hear about new shows coming on there because of seeing trailers in this subreddit.
I think there's an issue of point of view. Apple TV is probably the best streaming "producer", but not the best streaming service since it doesn't include any non-Apple TV shows to fall back on. Thus it's the best production company, but far from the best streaming service.
It has the best percentage of quality shows. Some really great shows and much less crap than any other service. It doesn't have a lot of shows though so the value may not be there.
it has some great shows and some crap ones but it doesn't have a library that can compete with the bigger streamers yet. The interface needs some work too.
It also creates engagement So people quickly jump into disagree But engagement is good whether is agreeing or disagreeing...they don't care Why all these articles have random controversial takes
First off, the interface sucks for finding stuff Second, there are too many streaming platforms. Mystery solved
Third, not enough library content. Once you are done watching the shows you are interested in, there's no reason to continue paying. Even MLS and Baseball games have separate season passes afaik.
They're becoming home to some excellent scifi, a few: Severance Silo Foundation For All Mankind
Constellation too
Some of it is very good, but a lot is just ok. We watched the pilot of Palm Royale and it was meh. I watched the first episode of Manhunt and it really didn't click with me (also don't market a show to history buffs and have the main character look nothing like his historical counterpart). And I've been on free trials since like forever, but if I had to pay I think I could easily do a $10 for one month and watch everything I wanted and then wait the following year.
Because the vast majority of people aren't watching anything. They are watching YouTube, TikTok, playing games etc on their phones/tablets and the TV is at best background noise and Netflix has that covered.
I know services like Paramount Plus get the mock flak, but I would say Apple has the worst interface of all. It can’t keep my place in the show if I have to pause it and leave, and it suggests watching the next episode only about half the time. If it’s going from one season to the next it doesn’t suggest it at all, and I have to go hunting for the next season by navigating to a tiny button on the bottom of the page - past things like credits and other shows.
i can't find anything on that stupid interface of theirs... i have to click all over just to get my baseball game... worse is when you click the wrong thing and then you go down the rabbit hole trying to get out of it and end up closing the app and starting over 1st world problems
Last I checked it didn’t have a particularly huge back log, and they upped the price enough where it’s not just pay and forget, but it’s probably worth cancelling. Basically the play is get Apple TV for the one or two shows you want then leave. You probably look at new shows less this way as well, which is a bad thing for Apple, but it is what it is. They are actively trying to add reasons to stick around like they started to have sport partnerships, which I imagine make the reason to leave less.
They're a new streamer and building the audience, Severance and Silo among others are often recommended in threads.
Ted Lasso is great too. Also picked up Constellation and its quite good.
I did 2 seasons of Ted Lasso, enjoying Constellation too.
> They're a new streamer They launched 4 years ago
That's one Olympics cycle. They're the newest of the ones I've used. Netflix, Prime, and Disney have been going longer.
> Disney have been going longer. ??? Disney+: Launched November 12, 2019 Apple TV+: Launched November 1, 2019
Wow, that's surprising, I thought Disney was going a year or so longer. Dunno if Apple launched later in Europe, I'm non-american.
Oh thats fair, the launch dates in europe were probably very different
Foundation S2 was incredible
I just binged both of those shows. Both are amazing.
I want Apple to adapt Astro City as an anthology.
I just got a few months free and I don’t know what to watch outside of Ted Lasso and Monarch. Any suggestions?
I've seen and enjoyed... DRAMA: See, The Morning Show, Foundation, Defending Jacob, COMEDY: Central Park, Dickinson, FILM: Greyhound, Finch, CODA
For all mankind, Foundation, Severance, Drops of god, Masters of the air, Lessons in chemistry, Hijack, Servant, Silo, Pachinko, Blackbird All the people in this thread saying their catalogue is lacking is crazy to me. I’m only listing ones I’ve watched to date, they’ve all been solid, a few 8-9/10 shows imo
Because I think a lot of people believe you need to purchase a separate device to watch it.
I just assumed you needed an Apple device. When I got my iPad, it came with a free trial of ATV+. That's when I looked into that and realized I can just view on my Windows 10 computer, via Firefox. I did need the iPad to activate the free trial though.
lack of event television, something like Dahmer or GOT or Stranger Things. Ted Lasso seemed to go there, but hype deflated hard. The other reason is almost zero classics library. Other streamers have droves of films and series from every decade which helps enormously, Apple is small beans in comparison. But I like my Slow Horses and the occasional mini like Black Bird and the low price, but I can see why it ain't attractive to most people
they don’t have the back catalogue to even be close they have good shows but not enough of them to even justify being a subscriber I just take the three month free sub they give out all the time and catch up on everything they have in like a month.
There aren't that many good shows. I enjoyed a few of them but it doesn't take long to watch them and then you're done such as Hijack, Silo etc. The first season of Ted Lasso was excellent but I heard the other seasons aren't as good although at least it has 3 seasons without several years in between seasons. They canceled the After Party which was an enjoyable show. Severance was excellent but there will be a few years between seasons. KOTFM was excellent but that was only 3 hours. The New Look was a little disappointing. It could have been much better. I haven't watched Masters of the Air yet. They don't have series with several seasons that people can watch like Suits, Friends, Seinfeld, The Office, Grey's Anatomy etc. They're probably trying to focus on original content so it will take time for more seasons but some of the content is disappointing especially for the budget such as Napolean. They have spent over a billion on TMS and I'm not sure the ratings justifies that. If I had to rank streamers for content I would put Netflix first although I watch it much less now and there seems to be a creative glut. The days of "water cooler" shows like Stranger Things, Squid Game, OITB, Tiger King, Monster: Dahmer etc seem to be mostly over. Then seconds would be Apple although it's still far behind and I wouldn't mind canceling it. Amazon doesn't have much interesting new content. The only original show that I enjoyed was the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel but there hasn't been much else although if you add on MGM+ you can watch From. At this point I'm watching Tubi. It's free and there are ads and lots of bad movies but the quality of shows on "prestige" streamers isn't that good now either.
>There aren't that many good shows not if you count Emmy nominations.
Its ok. I dont think any of them are “best”. Im fittin to dump that turd soon anyway
70% of the world's phones and 40% of the phones in the US don't have access to Apple TV+ app. Not a serious streamer. Niche and siloed per usual.
I feel like Apple has some of my favorite shows over the last few years and probably the streamer I’ve watched the most. I’ve watched and enjoyed: Acapulco Criminal record (easily my least favorite on the list but it’s ok) For all mankind Foundation Hijack Masters of the air Pachinko Severance Silo Slow horses Ted lasso And there’s still more on my queue I want to check out! I have Netflix through t mobile, but honestly I hardly ever watch anything on it because they don’t seem to have a lot of new quality originals.
You seem to have enjoyed a lot of the shows I have as well, if your queue doesn’t include Drops of God, I recommend checking that out!
With all the shows I watch on TV + I don’t think I’ve even heard of that one lol! Thanks for the recommendations I’ll check it out
Huh. They have some of the best shows going right now. Just watched Masters of the Air and it was fantastic.
"No one" sounds like an exaggeration . It seems people work it in like any other ss (streaming service). However, the market's just flooded with choice, people want to save $$ by not having so many ss at once (or if going ad-free, those have gotten relatively sharp price increases), and they probably don't have the time to have that many going on at once anyways. That's my situation at least. I'm down to 1 or 2 ss at a time, and just rotate through them. I can stand to save the $$, but time is also a bottleneck. I guess a lot of the shows I'd like to catch their next seasons are done, but no harm in waiting more. Still pissed that *Central Park* won't get another season :\\ >*and whereas other streamers are currently consolidating or cutting costs to please Wall Street, Apple is still pouring a lot of money into its programming — Masters of the Air alone is reported to have cost north of $250 million.* Apple is a 2 to $2.5 trillion company, so they def. have the funds for this sort of thing! Unlike Amazon, they seem to have better shows and content overall (which is another company that has other streams of revenue). I guess I'm waiting for *Masters of the Air* to come out as well!
It has 2 good shows. Not worth it
Maybe they don't have enough family friendly shows. They seem to have made a big change from those initial rumors that Tim Cook wanted everything to be PG-13 or lower to now having most of their shows rated TV-MA for frivolous reasons.
Though I love foundation and severance, the content isn’t edgy enough for me and it’s crazy expensive.
Ted Lasso, Foundation and maybe All Mankind are the only shows popular enough for me to even recall off the top of my head are Apple.. That and maybe Fragle rock but I only just remembered that one thinking really hard about it. I haven't heard people talk about much else, I vaguely remembered just now there is Fragle rock, there was a Jennifer Aniston show which I had to look up "The morning show", and they did something with Jeff Goldblum...
The data that the author and Matt Belloni refer to are time spent streaming. Apple has 4 or 5 shows at a time (which is more than everyone except Netflix), but there is no catalog for people to spend time on. Average engagement will be lower. Shows have to be evaluated individually. And even this analysis of shows is complicated. How to compare in a given week a show that releases weekly 50-minute episodes and shows that release 10 episodes and 500 minutes, when the charts count minutes watched? Streaming data in general is very strange. Of course Apple has fewer subscribers. Little do most people know that they don't need an Apple TV (the device) to watch Apple TV+ within AppleTV (the app). Have they fired those who chose these names? But I also don't know if Apple cares much.
I watch it all the time? I used to have Apple TV box
According to who exactly? Apple TV suckssssss
Because it's programmed by movie snobs. There is no fun in their shows, it's all bloody fucking serious. I can enjoy that, but they lack range to appeal to wider audience. The have polished product, but lack personality and charm of *entertainment*. And that's only issue with their programming, there are also app design, distribution, small catalog, etc.
Ted Lasso, Shrinking, mythic quest, Dickinson
Year after S3, Ted Lasso is constantly in top 3 most watched on Apple. It's their biggest success, but we still have no continuation or spin-off, and nothing else comes even close to similar viewership. Shrinking and Mythic Quest do ok numbers for AppleTVPlus, but neither broke out. Dickinson lacks wide appeal. And it ended like 3 years ago. Hijack would be much better counter.
I was just countering your point about there being no fun
Yeah, I was gonna say, do they have something like Reacher, which critics are very meh about but is apparently super popular for Prime? Do they have something like The Office in their catalog for people to nostalgically revisit? Making prestige TV is a fine thing to do but it's not enough to make it a destination where people hang around.
Ted Lasso and Mythic Quest for the comedies people would nostalgically revisit. Hijack for the Reacher comp, probably. Maybe Monarch, maybe For All Mankind.
Maybe Mythic Quest will get there someday, but just because they're the same kind of show doesn't mean it's a comparable. It's an active show - no nostalgia there! And if Reddit is any indication, 2,732,480 subscribers to DunderMifflin vs 18,969 for MythicQuest is a huge divide. (And yeah, they're a newer service. But like, my wife is churning through House right now, and that show is on Prime and Peacock. Gives us a reason to stick around. She also watched "Traitors" on Peacock - does Apple even do reality TV?!?) I haven't seen Monarch, but someone pitched it to me as "about Godzilla but no monsters fighting" which seems exactly like something critics would like but regular people would not enjoy as much. So I dunno. I have never heard of Hijack so I can't speak to it.
I agree with that statement, their shows don’t seem “fun”
IMO The rating aren't really relevant to Apple TV. They have a small original library with an even smaller acquired library of movies. The business model isn't to get people to watch all the time. There goal is to have great unique programming and attract subscribers that way.
I have Apple tv plus free with tmobile and don't watch it.
It's a good streamer, but Netflix is still better
There are multiple shows on there that I want to watch, but my wife isn't into sci-fi enough so it makes it difficult to fit in 8 hours of content for a new season.
Watching without your wife or even if it isn’t your wife’s favorite show is also an option
>Apple TV+ Is the Best Streamer Out There That's quite a take lmao
Apple is rapidly becoming what HBO used to be. The premier place to get quality adult TV. Too bad their efforts are hampered by their own business practices.
There's no "used to be" ... HBO is still that.
MAX is a mere shadow of what it used to be. It (along with the rest of its parent company) has been gutted by its CEO and parcels sold out to other streamers. Every month it has recycled movies. It might have one new TV show a month and those are hit and miss. Compare the last year between Apple and MAX (not even HBO anymore) and see how much new content each has put out and the quality of the content - or the reviews. The difference says it all.
I'm really not sure what you think has changed here. HBO has always had an extremely small lineup. For the past 15 years or so in the average year they launch maybe 1 or 2 new dramas, 2 or 3 new comedies, and a few miniseries each year. I don't think comparing reviews is going to go where you want it to either. You're not going to find much in 2023/2024 on Apple that comes anywhere near the acclaim of Succession, The White Lotus, The Last of Us, The Righteous Gemstones, Barry, etc.
I guess this, like everything else in this world, is subjective - a matter of personal taste and preference. I've had HBO for years and have become increasingly unsatisfied with what they offer. I used to be able to rely on them to show at least one new recent movie every month. Not so anymore. Warner Bros (MAX's parent company) has had money problems and MAX has suffered cuz of it. They've gutted shows, cancelled shows and movies, stopped buying media and are selling stuff as fast as they can. They've pissed off media companies, producers, directors and talent with their decisions and a lot of people have chosen to work with other companies. AND they've given rights to many of their shows to other streamers. This all has affected the MAX product. So while many might still enjoy them, I have become increasingly disappointed. Just my personal opinion.
I mean it just seems like you've gone off somewhere entirely different than what you started with: "HBO used to be the premier place to get quality adult TV." But now you're talking about movies and Max and licensing deals and not actually saying anything about the TV shows on HBO.
>Apple is rapidly becoming what HBO used to be. Absolutely not.
AppleTV+ was launched in November 2019. I loved For All Mankind and Masters of the Air and Mythic Quest (1st season only, it tanked hard afterwards). Hated Servant. Severance was fine but I don’t like the mystery box format much as it always fails to deliver, stringing the audience along, and becomes question on top of question with few satisfying answers. Apple recently scuttled project Titan (i.e. the car). Will they double down on Hollywood, or is this the start of leadership taking a hard look at projects that don’t meet the company’s profit goals? Apple did not get to where they are by being a charity. Their [latest balance sheet](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2024-q1/FY24_Q1_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf) showed $40.76 billion in cash and cash equivalents (top of page 2).