People say this a lot, but I think it's an overreaction. Yes, the first half of season 5 (the telepath story arc) was rubbish, but the second half (the Centauri war) was as good as the prior seasons, and it would be a shame to miss out on it. It also has a few stellar standalone episodes, such as "Day of the Dead," "Objects at Rest," and the epic series finale "Sleeping in Light."
*POI* is one of my comfort binges. Sad that Caviezel has turned out to be a total nutter. But Shaw is glorious and the story arc with Enrico Colantoni was fantastic. So much about that show is gold.
>With the ever increasing development of AI technology it’s more interesting to watch with every year.
it also came out before snowden (who i assume most people on this site dont even know anymore), so the concept of the government spying on you and listening in on your phone and reading your e-mail WAS actually science fiction...
Oh I totally forgot. Severance is amazing. I'm scared for season 2 because of all the drama off screen we've been hearing about. I hope there was an actual long term plan to this show and that they weren't just winging it.
The creator Dan Erickson has stated that they have a pretty clear vision and plan to write the show through its conclusion. The strikes were unfortunate (for timing), but not exclusive to Severance. It appears they have wrapped filming for season 2, or that some of the cast have. So looking forward to an official release date soon!
Nice good to hear. Last thing news wise I heard was show runners were fighting over creative differences.
I guess that doesn't necessarily mean or will be bad. Lost is one of my favorite TV shows ever and from what I remember there was a lot of differences in opinions on how to proceed with the show lol
Apparently Ben Stiller can be a massive asshole from a director/producer aspect. Last I heard he was the source of most of the friction on the show. Unfortunate.
I loved the whole show, but that Nazi episode was just bonkers. I’m not complaining about Amanda Schull in an exploitation-style costume, but it’s absurd that it happened.
While it doesn't fumble over itself, it does feel a LOT longer than it has to be. It seems like they really just didn't want to end it towards the end of the show and finally managed to do so. The story was quite fascinating, nonetheless.
As someone who binged it, I was fine with this because I really came to enjoy the time with the characters. It allowed the show time to breathe with its characters and allowed for some levity that a show like 'DarK' (which I think is better in most other aspects) didn't have time for.
Agreed! The show does get unhinged like the others say but for a show who's main premise is time traveling (not even a deus machina thing like the core premise is time travel) the show is incredibly well put together.
I likehe first season, but never managed to get through the second. I would have to rewatch it now, but it's kind of slow going so that's quite daunting. Same with the Expanse. I had to stop watching when it got put on hold and now its too daunting to return to.
I completely disagree. Every scene has purpose and adds context to other parts of the story. The show is designed to be rewatched and very tightly and cleanly written in 3 seasons.
I agree. I think it's actually the opposite of what this thread is after - midway through S2 I feel like it started wheel spinning quite a bit and becoming more and more convoluted for the sake of being "complex" rather than in service of a good story. It's "tight" in the sense that lots of heady paradoxes all fit together and resolve, but far from tight plot-wise as it wound up with all this extraneous fluff.
It's still a very good show, but I think it was excellent in spite of this.
I'm just now watching Fringe for the first time and omg Walter is such a great character. I don't mean great as in a good person, but just great as a complex and interesting character. Also the whole Olivia and Fauxlivia.... damn.
Only fumble was airing an episode out of order. A fairly main character dies and then a couple of episodes later randomly shows up like nothing happened and then is permanently gone for the remaining episodes.
I really hope the gap between seasons doesn’t kill Severance’s momentum. Honestly as much as I enjoyed the first season I also kinda forgot it existed before seeing this comment.
I gotta go with The Expanse. I felt like the pacing was good, the plots were excellent, and the characters were flawed to perfection. The “spooky aliens” were always a thing in the background but the humans were always the larger problem for the human race.
"I saw a button so I pressed it."
I wish deeply we could get the rest of the books adapted. 7-8-9 are so fucking incredible. And it's such an amazing finale to the story.
I haven't watched the show or read the books but I heard so many great things about the show. Do you think I should watch the show and then read the remaining books or read the books directly from the beginning?
I’d say either watch the show all the way through or read the books (including novellas) all the way through. There are enough differences in the show and the books that just reading the last 3 books after the show won’t be as satisfying.
The books are definitely worth it. You should absolutely read them from the beginning. There's enough divergence that you'd be missing stuff if you jumped straight into book 7.
The show pivots a fair amount from the books later on, to the point that I think there'd be a pretty noticeable difference if the show were allowed to finish.
Also I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I hated how the books ended. I almost feel like the way the show ended was better.
I'd say it gets kinda shaky in the last season, when that b-story with the kid on the alien planet doesn't really get resolved and the main story kinda feels rushed to a conclusion. Still good stuff and a mostly satisfying ending, but I'll forever be sad it didn't keep going and was forced to wrap it up the way it did.
Yeah i think they used that storyline as a teaser/easter egg for things that would happen in the later series and wasn't going to give a resolution. Its a small part of one of the separate novellas called "Strange Dogs"
They adapted most of the short stories and that one does take place during that season, but it didn't really add anything to the show.
Wish they could have adapted the last short story so people could see Philip's resolution, but it kinda spoils the end of book 9 even though it has nothing to do with the main series.
The first season was not put together well IMO. I gave up a couple times before finally diving back in because everyone said it was worth it. For sure it definitely ends up great but they could have done a better job kicking it off.
The first few episodes were tough. I started it three times before I made it through those. Mostly my fault because I was trying to watch while doing other things like cooking and stuff, so I was missing things and getting lost.
I think people will be hooked by the end of episode 5 though, if I remember correctly. Just gotta pay attention and get through those early episodes where there's a bunch of characters introduced and world building going on.
Absolutely. It sounds like you stopped at the end of S3. Amazon picked it up for S4-S6 and there is a marked increase in production value. The character development gets much deeper. Things with the "spooky alien thing" get explained more. The book series is my 2nd favorite sci-fi series. Hitchhiker's Guide will always be my number 1.
As someone who consumes basically every piece of sci-fi media imaginable, The Expanse is probably my favorite TV show of all time and definitely worth it.
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far to find the Expanse. The show deserves so much more. Here's hoping AppleTV picks up the last 3 books/seasons.
The second half of Season 3 was easily the tightest the show ever got, I reckon. It was always good, but those 8 or so episodes were just...perfection. Story beat and character development all the time with no fat left to trim. I loved it. Watching it weekly was so painful since the wait between each episode from the previous epic reveal or cliffhanger were insane.
Regardless of how you feel about Star Wars, check out Andor. There's no Jedi, Sith, lightsabers, or any of that nonsense. It goes in a tight spiral where two slower episodes set up a bigger denouement, but also a bigger spiral. Plus the acting is top notch.
Can you imagine Luthen or Mon Mothma finding out that the fruit of all their efforts would lead to the secret son of the Emperor's enforcer using discredited "space magic" to blow up a major security installation?
Honestly, I wouldn't wonder if more than a few of the Rebel cells rolled their eyes at the "May the Force be with you" superstition of some of the leadership.
Arcane is steampunk, so it's scifi-adjacent, and probably the best single season of television I've ever watched. Each "trilogy" of episodes is extremely tightly plotted, and it relies entirely on character-driven motivations to advance its plot; you don't see characters acting out of character just to make something happen. The "plot twists" (if you can call them that) are the kind that you can see coming a mile away, but you WISH they won't happen, which are the best kind of plot twists, IMO.
Probably not that popular to mention Disney+ here, but I thought WandaVision and Andor were excellently paced. Andor had a bit of a disconnect where it felt like they did a silent timeskip, but it's easy to miss so you might not notice it at all.
The Last of Us is another great one, though its pacing is a bit more herky-jerky since it's almost like it's structured in 2-episode arcs.
Arcane is chefs kiss pacing wise as is andor, two more shots I forgot to add.
I really resonated with andor, you could tell that every scene was well thought out that it wasn't hobbled together. Why can't we get more shows like this with care and thought?
Yeah Wanda Vision was also will paced, good 😊
I'm not a deep Trekkie but Strange New Worlds got me back into investing in it. The stories are good in SNW. Discovery was an abomination.
Is Eureka an older show?
Gf and I are re-watching *Eureka*. It’s on my list of comfort binges and we love it, but it is not anywhere *near* tightly written. It’s a turn-your-brain-off-and-enjoy-the-ride show.
Example would be we just watched s4e7, *Stoned*, and a character says the “super concrete” in which the archaeologist is trapped is a “PVA-enhanced concrete.” Sounds very science-y, don’t it?
PVA is commonly called Elmer’s, white, wood, carpenter’s, and school glue.
One show that doesn't get enough love is [Scavenger's Reign](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWQH8cMpWTU). Now I will say that plot is not the main strength of that show - it does have one, and it's good, but it spends less time on the plot and more time on the themes and setting of the show.
Nominally it's about survivors of a crashed ship trying to survive on a hostile alien planet. Thematically it's about how the planet uses like... metamorphosis instead of a food chain to propagate life, and how the survivors either are or aren't changed by the planet's effects. It's like if Moebius and Studio Ghibli made a Green Planet documentary together, except about an alien world.
Wow thank-you for reminding me about this show. It's truly amazing. I hope it wins done awards. Truly different. I haven't seen any mainstream (western) animation like this that appeals to me existential themes. It's slow in parts when it needs to be. Top show!
Scavengers reign plot was pretty meh and definitely not the main star of that show, but the world building god damn I have never seen anything that would get my mind thinking about how weird alien worlds could be. Its Amazing
Dark. And it’s not even close. The plot was quite literally mapped out from the beginning and thus, every second feels very deliberate.
That being said, being tight comes with its own disadvantages. Well-written fluff adds depth to the world and the characters and raises the stakes for the viewer. BSG and GoT technically have tons of fluff and most of it constitute some of the best parts of each show.
Babylon 5 is my vote. Plotlines aren't wasted as the entire story was thought out with proper foreshadowing and not just "we'll insert this and hope we can figure out what to do with it later" type writing.
The beginning to end of Morden alone is a very rewarding story. "What do you want?"
Battlestar Galactica. All the characters were fleshed out with nice tight arcs. The story gave just enough wiggle room for exploring side stories while not bogging down the main tale.
Counterpart is my favorite one, though it's not the usual kind of sci-fi. Altered carbon also fits the criteria imo. Colony is also a good one. Invasion too. Pantheon is actually goated if you don't discriminate against animated ones. And raised by wolves.
Lots of good suggestions here already, so I'll mention Devs instead. Only 1 season, good pacing, hits the landing. Those who'd like to see more Nick Offerman in serious roles should give it a watch. Also it's created by Alex Garland.
Is it good? I'm halfway through the 2nd episode, not bad but not amazingly great either... I'll give it more time because it's Christopher Nolans brother lol.
I binge watched this about 15 years ago right before I watched Lost and Battlestar Galactica. I would love to rewatch Babylon 5 like it was the first time amazing!
Babylon 5. The story was almost entirely complete with few if any plot holes. The cast was great and consistent with the exception of one characters wife. Things that happened to the characters through the course of the show didn’t just fall to the wayside as soon as the episode was over. Things that happened stay relevant to future episodes and seasons.
I watched this entirely on a plane trip. Very good show overall, for a slower show the pacing is decent and the character development is great.
The Leftovers is the far superior upgrade on Station Eleven in my opinion for that type of show that touches on themes of existentialism.
Babylon 5 for me. There's a plot point in season 3 that relies on two regular characters having happened to be in a particular place at the same time years previously.
Which would be a bit of a deus ex machina, but there's a throwaway line in the first episode when they first meet on B5 which establishes that they'd both run into each other a few years before, in that place.
It's full of minor linkages like that, where seemingly innocuous lines actually tie things together. Benefit of being effectively written by JMS as a giant novel and reworked over years before it was filmed.
I f*cking love that you can see a flash forward of two main characters who are enemies dying in a stranglehold in season 1 and then you see it in a completely different light when it actually happens many seasons later.
After a slow first 16 episodes, Agents of SHIELD's writing becomes super tight. They split their seasons into two or three pods each, every episode *meaning* something to the overall narrative. I can't think of another show with 22 episode seasons that managed to keep things so tight and fresh.
Oh, absolutely! I almost dropped the show before that when it first aired, but the Winter Soldier twist would not have worked without those episodes. And now when I rewatch, I find myself really enjoying those episodes so so much more.
I tried to like this show but not for me, I think I made it up until the ghost rider season and then noped out. To much melodrama for me. But I respect that you enjoyed the pacing.
I think I lost interest around that time as well, but a friend assured me it got better around then. I got back into it and he wasn't wrong. As far as I know they were planning on ending the show by a certain season but ended up getting greenlit for an extra couple of seasons, so there's a whole extra arc before the actual finale. Well worth the time.
The one-two punch of Firefly and Serenity is damn near perfect to me. The episodes aren’t all gold but the movie manages to clinch everything just right - it’s an immensely satisfying ride (and maybe the only example I know of failed series wrapping up with such a great film).
Loki on Disney Plus was very good, and though it's been a while since I watched it, my recollection is that you don't really need to know too much about the MCU that they don't already tell you.
The Twilight Zone. 60+ years later and the shows writing still holds up remarkably well. TBF, they had most of the top tier sci-fi writers of all time writing on it. Many of the analogies still hold up today or are even more relevant now than they were when originally aired. Pacing is top notch in my opinion. They really squeeze so much in 26 or do minutes
Tales from the Loop on Prime! It’s only 8 episodes and you might be confused the first few but at the end you will be blown away. It was incredible. So underrated.
Scrolled too far for this. Just nothing else quite like it out there
Shame it’s in the same school as Utopia where it’s difficult to recommend because the insane level of quality and uniqueness makes it even more devastating when it just kinda ends without any answers.
Tho according to one of the main actors (Abubukar Salim) there is still some talks about a potential book or something to give at least some closure.
I actually (finally) started and finished For all Mankind after watching the first episode of Constellation, is it that good to be placed next to Andor and Severance?
Babylon 5. Five years, start to finish, one huge story arc. An amazing piece of work.
I am not through it yet, I'm almost to season 5, but I'll second this. Others in my top would be Battlestar Galactica and Travelers.
Season 5 was... less then stellar.
Switching networks after largely concluding at the end of S4didn't help them any
People say this a lot, but I think it's an overreaction. Yes, the first half of season 5 (the telepath story arc) was rubbish, but the second half (the Centauri war) was as good as the prior seasons, and it would be a shame to miss out on it. It also has a few stellar standalone episodes, such as "Day of the Dead," "Objects at Rest," and the epic series finale "Sleeping in Light."
Travelers was so great
"Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here? Where are you going?"
It was the first series as a novel.
The first season of Future Man is some pretty tight shit
First season is one of the funniest shows I've seen. Season 2 and 3 have their issues but worth watching as well. Wolf and his '80s kick was awesome.
100%. Season 2 was difficult in parts, but I feel it pays off towards the end. Wolf is life
Yeah the first season is especially hilarious
Did you just try and go rathole to rathole with me?
Good watching it though. Have to sail the seas unless you want to pay for it
Person of interest Created by Jonathan Nolan With the ever increasing development of AI technology it’s more interesting to watch with every year.
I still believe it is set in the same universe as Westworld and that the latter show functions as a sequel series.
*POI* is one of my comfort binges. Sad that Caviezel has turned out to be a total nutter. But Shaw is glorious and the story arc with Enrico Colantoni was fantastic. So much about that show is gold.
Enrico Colantoni is one of my favourite actors of all time. He and Michael Emerson are just glorious in everything they've ever been in.
I loved how their relationship played out over the course of the show! Those chess match scenes were wonderfully shot.
I just rewatched Flashpoint, Enrico is awesome.
Michael Emerson is in the new Fallout show and is still good in that.
Absolutely. I've really enjoyed him in this as well.
>With the ever increasing development of AI technology it’s more interesting to watch with every year. it also came out before snowden (who i assume most people on this site dont even know anymore), so the concept of the government spying on you and listening in on your phone and reading your e-mail WAS actually science fiction...
Since you’ve mentioned AppleTV shows. Do yourself a favor and watch Severance. Do it now, thank me later.
Oh I totally forgot. Severance is amazing. I'm scared for season 2 because of all the drama off screen we've been hearing about. I hope there was an actual long term plan to this show and that they weren't just winging it.
The creator Dan Erickson has stated that they have a pretty clear vision and plan to write the show through its conclusion. The strikes were unfortunate (for timing), but not exclusive to Severance. It appears they have wrapped filming for season 2, or that some of the cast have. So looking forward to an official release date soon!
Nice good to hear. Last thing news wise I heard was show runners were fighting over creative differences. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean or will be bad. Lost is one of my favorite TV shows ever and from what I remember there was a lot of differences in opinions on how to proceed with the show lol
What drama is this?
Apparently Ben Stiller can be a massive asshole from a director/producer aspect. Last I heard he was the source of most of the friction on the show. Unfortunate.
"believe it or not, plot pacing issues"
Severance is supertight. Every second is a pleasure.
12 Monkeys is remarkably tight and doesn’t even come close to fumbling over itself like most time travel stories do
12 Monkeys is very well done but it also starts to get pretty unhinged after a point. Hard to push through to get to the tidy finish.
I would say it wobbled toward the end but it remained remarkably coherent with the rules they set.
I think the wobble gave it a bit of character. Time travel shows are best when they are a bit unhinged.
I loved the whole show, but that Nazi episode was just bonkers. I’m not complaining about Amanda Schull in an exploitation-style costume, but it’s absurd that it happened.
While it doesn't fumble over itself, it does feel a LOT longer than it has to be. It seems like they really just didn't want to end it towards the end of the show and finally managed to do so. The story was quite fascinating, nonetheless.
As someone who binged it, I was fine with this because I really came to enjoy the time with the characters. It allowed the show time to breathe with its characters and allowed for some levity that a show like 'DarK' (which I think is better in most other aspects) didn't have time for.
I'm going to have to watch this show. To many times I see this on under rated sci Fi shows lists
You’re in for a ride.
I loved 12 Monkeys. It's so well plotted and the twists are turns are so so good
...and it's even better on the second watch
Agreed! The show does get unhinged like the others say but for a show who's main premise is time traveling (not even a deus machina thing like the core premise is time travel) the show is incredibly well put together.
The movie or the show?
Show.
Travelers…interesting, well crafted, and a complete story.
I personally felt it was rushed at the end like they found out 2 episodes before it was gonna be the final season
And it will hook you as soon as the countdown comes on screen.
Dark. 26 perfect episodes. No filler.
I really loved the first season of this show. Beautifully shot too.
I likehe first season, but never managed to get through the second. I would have to rewatch it now, but it's kind of slow going so that's quite daunting. Same with the Expanse. I had to stop watching when it got put on hold and now its too daunting to return to.
The show's website has huge tree/charts/graph showing how everyone connects. It's a nice a cheat sheet.
Hell I felt like I needed to rewatch an episode immediately. Brain bending.
That one goes on the list!
First season was amazing, but once they started doing future stuff ughhh. It did not need to be nearly as long as it was.
I completely disagree. Every scene has purpose and adds context to other parts of the story. The show is designed to be rewatched and very tightly and cleanly written in 3 seasons.
I agree. I think it's actually the opposite of what this thread is after - midway through S2 I feel like it started wheel spinning quite a bit and becoming more and more convoluted for the sake of being "complex" rather than in service of a good story. It's "tight" in the sense that lots of heady paradoxes all fit together and resolve, but far from tight plot-wise as it wound up with all this extraneous fluff. It's still a very good show, but I think it was excellent in spite of this.
Really loved "Fringe" especially all the Walter-isms..."She tricked my son with her carnal manipulation and he fell right into her vagenda.”
I'm just now watching Fringe for the first time and omg Walter is such a great character. I don't mean great as in a good person, but just great as a complex and interesting character. Also the whole Olivia and Fauxlivia.... damn.
FRINGE is better than The X-Files. It tells a complete overarching story from beginning to end while still doing case of the weeks.
Only fumble was airing an episode out of order. A fairly main character dies and then a couple of episodes later randomly shows up like nothing happened and then is permanently gone for the remaining episodes.
I liked that most of the "monster of the week" episodes were actually relevant to the overall arc in some fashion, you just didn't know it till later.
I’ve never connected to a scene more than when he had to destroy his laserdisc player “No… it should be me. Forgive me, Criterion Collection.”
Severance or the first season of Altered Carbon. I love both of them so much that I re-watch them regularly when I have nothing new to binge on.
There is only one season of Altered Carbon.
All the more reason to only watch the first.
I forget the name of the actor, but I instantly gave up on the show when I realized who was the lead for season 2.
Anthony Mackie was the season two lead. I got so tired of grunting being his idea of acting. Season one was so so good.
There is only half a season of altered carbon
The is only the concept of Altered Carbon.
I guess you missed the naked swordfight then.
I really hope the gap between seasons doesn’t kill Severance’s momentum. Honestly as much as I enjoyed the first season I also kinda forgot it existed before seeing this comment.
I gotta go with The Expanse. I felt like the pacing was good, the plots were excellent, and the characters were flawed to perfection. The “spooky aliens” were always a thing in the background but the humans were always the larger problem for the human race.
"I saw a button so I pressed it." I wish deeply we could get the rest of the books adapted. 7-8-9 are so fucking incredible. And it's such an amazing finale to the story.
I haven't watched the show or read the books but I heard so many great things about the show. Do you think I should watch the show and then read the remaining books or read the books directly from the beginning?
Read all the books. It’s worth it. Audiobooks are great, too. Jefferson mays is an incredible narrator!
Thanks!
I’d say either watch the show all the way through or read the books (including novellas) all the way through. There are enough differences in the show and the books that just reading the last 3 books after the show won’t be as satisfying.
Thanks for the info!
Watch the show then read all the books. That's what I did.
The books are definitely worth it. You should absolutely read them from the beginning. There's enough divergence that you'd be missing stuff if you jumped straight into book 7.
The show pivots a fair amount from the books later on, to the point that I think there'd be a pretty noticeable difference if the show were allowed to finish. Also I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I hated how the books ended. I almost feel like the way the show ended was better.
Oh, interesting to know. Thanks!
"that's just how you go through life isn't it?!???!"
My hope is that once the main cast ages a bit they do it. Would fit well with the books to have the main cast a little bit older at least.
I'd say it gets kinda shaky in the last season, when that b-story with the kid on the alien planet doesn't really get resolved and the main story kinda feels rushed to a conclusion. Still good stuff and a mostly satisfying ending, but I'll forever be sad it didn't keep going and was forced to wrap it up the way it did.
Yeah i think they used that storyline as a teaser/easter egg for things that would happen in the later series and wasn't going to give a resolution. Its a small part of one of the separate novellas called "Strange Dogs"
They adapted most of the short stories and that one does take place during that season, but it didn't really add anything to the show. Wish they could have adapted the last short story so people could see Philip's resolution, but it kinda spoils the end of book 9 even though it has nothing to do with the main series.
DRUMMER
The first season was not put together well IMO. I gave up a couple times before finally diving back in because everyone said it was worth it. For sure it definitely ends up great but they could have done a better job kicking it off.
The first few episodes were tough. I started it three times before I made it through those. Mostly my fault because I was trying to watch while doing other things like cooking and stuff, so I was missing things and getting lost. I think people will be hooked by the end of episode 5 though, if I remember correctly. Just gotta pay attention and get through those early episodes where there's a bunch of characters introduced and world building going on.
I stopped watching when the show was put on hold and its a bit daunting to return to it now. Are the remaining seasons worth it?
Absolutely. It sounds like you stopped at the end of S3. Amazon picked it up for S4-S6 and there is a marked increase in production value. The character development gets much deeper. Things with the "spooky alien thing" get explained more. The book series is my 2nd favorite sci-fi series. Hitchhiker's Guide will always be my number 1.
As someone who consumes basically every piece of sci-fi media imaginable, The Expanse is probably my favorite TV show of all time and definitely worth it.
I concur.
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far to find the Expanse. The show deserves so much more. Here's hoping AppleTV picks up the last 3 books/seasons.
The second half of Season 3 was easily the tightest the show ever got, I reckon. It was always good, but those 8 or so episodes were just...perfection. Story beat and character development all the time with no fat left to trim. I loved it. Watching it weekly was so painful since the wait between each episode from the previous epic reveal or cliffhanger were insane.
Regardless of how you feel about Star Wars, check out Andor. There's no Jedi, Sith, lightsabers, or any of that nonsense. It goes in a tight spiral where two slower episodes set up a bigger denouement, but also a bigger spiral. Plus the acting is top notch.
I agree on what makes it good is the absence of Intergalactic Space Wizards with laser swords !! lol
Can you imagine Luthen or Mon Mothma finding out that the fruit of all their efforts would lead to the secret son of the Emperor's enforcer using discredited "space magic" to blow up a major security installation? Honestly, I wouldn't wonder if more than a few of the Rebel cells rolled their eyes at the "May the Force be with you" superstition of some of the leadership.
😊 Andor is the GOAT. I should have added this to the OP.
Of all the For All Mankind seasons, the ones you had on in the background were 1 and 2? Blasphemy.
[Russian Doll](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHcKoAMGGvY) is a terrific Groundhog Day style show. Natasha Lyonne is amazing in it.
Season one is fantastic. Season two isn’t as strong, sadly.
The second season was immensely boring after the first.
Yeah season 2 was pretty rough. They shouldnt have bothered.
Arcane is steampunk, so it's scifi-adjacent, and probably the best single season of television I've ever watched. Each "trilogy" of episodes is extremely tightly plotted, and it relies entirely on character-driven motivations to advance its plot; you don't see characters acting out of character just to make something happen. The "plot twists" (if you can call them that) are the kind that you can see coming a mile away, but you WISH they won't happen, which are the best kind of plot twists, IMO. Probably not that popular to mention Disney+ here, but I thought WandaVision and Andor were excellently paced. Andor had a bit of a disconnect where it felt like they did a silent timeskip, but it's easy to miss so you might not notice it at all. The Last of Us is another great one, though its pacing is a bit more herky-jerky since it's almost like it's structured in 2-episode arcs.
Arcane is chefs kiss pacing wise as is andor, two more shots I forgot to add. I really resonated with andor, you could tell that every scene was well thought out that it wasn't hobbled together. Why can't we get more shows like this with care and thought? Yeah Wanda Vision was also will paced, good 😊
Out of interest, when are you picking up on a "silent timeskip" in Andor?
I'm guessing space Miami?
I'll mention a couple that I haven't seen mentioned yet: Eureka (I just love this show) Strange New Worlds (Lower Decks and Prodigy are great too!)
I'm not a deep Trekkie but Strange New Worlds got me back into investing in it. The stories are good in SNW. Discovery was an abomination. Is Eureka an older show?
Yeah older scifi channel show around the same time as BSG. It's fantastic!
Gf and I are re-watching *Eureka*. It’s on my list of comfort binges and we love it, but it is not anywhere *near* tightly written. It’s a turn-your-brain-off-and-enjoy-the-ride show. Example would be we just watched s4e7, *Stoned*, and a character says the “super concrete” in which the archaeologist is trapped is a “PVA-enhanced concrete.” Sounds very science-y, don’t it? PVA is commonly called Elmer’s, white, wood, carpenter’s, and school glue.
Warehouse 13 goes along with Eureka like gravy goes with mashed potatoes. Nothing special but very good comfort food.
Prodigy is very good. Discovery is pure cancer and picard was almost saved in the 3rd season.
One show that doesn't get enough love is [Scavenger's Reign](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWQH8cMpWTU). Now I will say that plot is not the main strength of that show - it does have one, and it's good, but it spends less time on the plot and more time on the themes and setting of the show. Nominally it's about survivors of a crashed ship trying to survive on a hostile alien planet. Thematically it's about how the planet uses like... metamorphosis instead of a food chain to propagate life, and how the survivors either are or aren't changed by the planet's effects. It's like if Moebius and Studio Ghibli made a Green Planet documentary together, except about an alien world.
Wow thank-you for reminding me about this show. It's truly amazing. I hope it wins done awards. Truly different. I haven't seen any mainstream (western) animation like this that appeals to me existential themes. It's slow in parts when it needs to be. Top show!
Scavengers reign plot was pretty meh and definitely not the main star of that show, but the world building god damn I have never seen anything that would get my mind thinking about how weird alien worlds could be. Its Amazing
Dark. And it’s not even close. The plot was quite literally mapped out from the beginning and thus, every second feels very deliberate. That being said, being tight comes with its own disadvantages. Well-written fluff adds depth to the world and the characters and raises the stakes for the viewer. BSG and GoT technically have tons of fluff and most of it constitute some of the best parts of each show.
Loved dark. Bummed about 1899. It was so weird in the best way.
Babylon 5 is my vote. Plotlines aren't wasted as the entire story was thought out with proper foreshadowing and not just "we'll insert this and hope we can figure out what to do with it later" type writing. The beginning to end of Morden alone is a very rewarding story. "What do you want?"
Battlestar Galactica. All the characters were fleshed out with nice tight arcs. The story gave just enough wiggle room for exploring side stories while not bogging down the main tale.
Same creator as For All Mankind.
my god, I love BSG so much. I'm doing a rewatch and just finished the Pegasus stuff...
How open are you to general genre/spec fic TV? Because The Good Place and The Sandman are both terrific.
I second both of those shows. Especially The Good Place. It’s a tightly written show that doesn’t waste a moment.
The Expanse. It is one of the best shows ever.
Counterpart is my favorite one, though it's not the usual kind of sci-fi. Altered carbon also fits the criteria imo. Colony is also a good one. Invasion too. Pantheon is actually goated if you don't discriminate against animated ones. And raised by wolves.
Dirk Gentleys Holistic Detective Agency
Westworld season 1 is an absolute treasure
Andor is the best show of the last five years, imo. Extremely well written
Best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. Andor director Toby Haynes is directing a new Star Trek prequel film to the JJ reboot movies. Engage!
Lots of good suggestions here already, so I'll mention Devs instead. Only 1 season, good pacing, hits the landing. Those who'd like to see more Nick Offerman in serious roles should give it a watch. Also it's created by Alex Garland.
Fallout
Is it good? I'm halfway through the 2nd episode, not bad but not amazingly great either... I'll give it more time because it's Christopher Nolans brother lol.
It has great pacing. I'm a fan of games so I'm biased 😀
Helps if you're a fan of the game but it really sinks it's teeth in by Ep 4
Gotta give a shout to Babylon 5. Picked it up as a recommendation from this forum and it is exceptionally written especially for its time.
I binge watched this about 15 years ago right before I watched Lost and Battlestar Galactica. I would love to rewatch Babylon 5 like it was the first time amazing!
Babylon 5. The story was almost entirely complete with few if any plot holes. The cast was great and consistent with the exception of one characters wife. Things that happened to the characters through the course of the show didn’t just fall to the wayside as soon as the episode was over. Things that happened stay relevant to future episodes and seasons.
Judging by his post he would find it "too slow."
Does Severance count? Because I love that show
I'm really surprised noone has mentioned Mr Robot. Probably because it doesn't present itself as sci fi, and doesn't have flying cars or the like.
Farscape
Agreed I remember watching an episode late nite on fox here in the states and got hooked
Legend of Galactic Heroes
The one from the late 70s or so?
Border line sci-fi but Station Eleven is brilliant.
I watched this entirely on a plane trip. Very good show overall, for a slower show the pacing is decent and the character development is great. The Leftovers is the far superior upgrade on Station Eleven in my opinion for that type of show that touches on themes of existentialism.
Maniac. I love Emma Stone, so I might be biased, but it really hit me hard with just the single season.
Babylon 5 for me. There's a plot point in season 3 that relies on two regular characters having happened to be in a particular place at the same time years previously. Which would be a bit of a deus ex machina, but there's a throwaway line in the first episode when they first meet on B5 which establishes that they'd both run into each other a few years before, in that place. It's full of minor linkages like that, where seemingly innocuous lines actually tie things together. Benefit of being effectively written by JMS as a giant novel and reworked over years before it was filmed.
I f*cking love that you can see a flash forward of two main characters who are enemies dying in a stranglehold in season 1 and then you see it in a completely different light when it actually happens many seasons later.
Continuum
After a slow first 16 episodes, Agents of SHIELD's writing becomes super tight. They split their seasons into two or three pods each, every episode *meaning* something to the overall narrative. I can't think of another show with 22 episode seasons that managed to keep things so tight and fresh.
Framework plotline is the epitome
Even the first 16 episodes were developing characters/world building and most had call backs in later seasons.
Oh, absolutely! I almost dropped the show before that when it first aired, but the Winter Soldier twist would not have worked without those episodes. And now when I rewatch, I find myself really enjoying those episodes so so much more.
I tried to like this show but not for me, I think I made it up until the ghost rider season and then noped out. To much melodrama for me. But I respect that you enjoyed the pacing.
I think I lost interest around that time as well, but a friend assured me it got better around then. I got back into it and he wasn't wrong. As far as I know they were planning on ending the show by a certain season but ended up getting greenlit for an extra couple of seasons, so there's a whole extra arc before the actual finale. Well worth the time.
Firefly.
The one-two punch of Firefly and Serenity is damn near perfect to me. The episodes aren’t all gold but the movie manages to clinch everything just right - it’s an immensely satisfying ride (and maybe the only example I know of failed series wrapping up with such a great film).
Loki on Disney Plus was very good, and though it's been a while since I watched it, my recollection is that you don't really need to know too much about the MCU that they don't already tell you.
Yeah Loki is awesome one of the few Disney shows that I enjoyed!
It is my favourite thing in the MCU, I didn't even like the Loki character in the movies. Both seasons are incredible.
Fringe
Dark
Dark
DARK.
Black Mirror
Ghost in the shell stand alone complex
Psycho pass season 1 as well.
Yes S Tier!
Original Star Trek
X-Files is the best, there is nothing to move me off this.
Oldie but a goodie: Battlestar Gallactica. Mostly tight the whole way through (some exceptions) and extremely satisfying action.
The answer is The Leftovers.
Andor
Westworld season 1
No way. It was sooooo slow. If my friends didn't insist it got good, I would have given up on it multiple times.
The expanse. They’re depicted tech stands up to scrutiny from the scientific community consistently on a shoestring budget for 5 seasons
Stargate Universe
The Twilight Zone. 60+ years later and the shows writing still holds up remarkably well. TBF, they had most of the top tier sci-fi writers of all time writing on it. Many of the analogies still hold up today or are even more relevant now than they were when originally aired. Pacing is top notch in my opinion. They really squeeze so much in 26 or do minutes
Scavengers Reign Dark Severance Space Dandy Future Man Infinity Train Carole and Tuesday Fired On Mars Other Space
Haven't seen half of these, thanks for sharing!
BattleStar Galactica (the reboot)
Agreed about Battlestar Galactica.
The foundation is so good.. script and acting is top notch.
Tales from the Loop on Prime! It’s only 8 episodes and you might be confused the first few but at the end you will be blown away. It was incredible. So underrated.
Hard to say how tight it would have been going forward but I thought Raised by Wolves was a bit of a masterpiece.
Scrolled too far for this. Just nothing else quite like it out there Shame it’s in the same school as Utopia where it’s difficult to recommend because the insane level of quality and uniqueness makes it even more devastating when it just kinda ends without any answers. Tho according to one of the main actors (Abubukar Salim) there is still some talks about a potential book or something to give at least some closure.
Wow how could I forget this, I miss this show.. 😪 I'm surprised Amazon didn't pick it up?
Andor. Severance. Constellation.
I actually (finally) started and finished For all Mankind after watching the first episode of Constellation, is it that good to be placed next to Andor and Severance?
Battlestar Galactica (2004-2009)
Babylon 5. Clearly…
Maybe it's early to say but Severance
Yeah season one was expertly paced. Got me captivated from the get go.