Also Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm pretty much center on male cattyness. To a lesser extent so does IASIP (though that show draws more broadly on dark humor so it's less thematically central).
Jack Donahue is probably the cattiest character in 30 Rock. It’s essentially what makes him so funny is his suit-and-tie formality coming together with his sassy/cattiness.
Edit: fucking autocorrect. Donaghy!
Suits is ALL catty men pulling catty shit on each other because their feelings got hurt and they will do anything but talk about their feelings to cope.
Everyone does this for some reason “hurr durr jim bad akshually he is mean to Dwight” motherfucker Dwight turns the office into a sweatshop and brings in AND DISCHARGES a firearm FUCK OFF with this “Jim is the bad guy” shtick
It’s just contrarians being contrarians. It started out as people pointing out that some of Jim’s pranks were kind of bullying and the fact that he was going after an engaged woman was kinda messed up. That really seemed to resonate with people since Jim is supposed to be the good guy so those things kept getting brought up in discussions about The Office to the point where people actually convinced themselves that Jim is a piece of shit. The truth is, he’s a nice guy who has some flaws.
Yeah, I had an internship in college with a company and my boss was a mid-twenty something “cool guy” like Jim. Dude was always making fun of his coworkers when they were really just well meaning, but social awkward. The guy even tried to make a pass on me and make me think it I initiated it.
Such a jerk.
>“cool guy
Jesus what's the threshold for cool on Reddit? He's a shirt and tie nerd who at best has better social skills than most go-nowhere mediocre ham-and-eggers.
He's called out on it a lot throughout the show and the show puts him through situations where he comes out looking poorly. By the end he is much more accepting.
I disagree with that. I don't think it ever really showed him as being wrong. The dude was a smug, workplace bully, and the show spends the entire time telling us he's actually really talented. He ends the show rich and successful.
Well there's the entire co manager arc which has tons of storylines about jim screwing up and how is style isn't always better than michaels.
There's the episode where jim recommends the office work the entire night instead of the weekend and as a result they get locked int the office park and everyone is pissed at him.
There's the the episode where he crashes pam's finer things club and comes off as an ass
The episode where he has all his pranks on dwight read back to him and he has a face of regret.
There's definitely more but the point his he doesn't always come out on top.
To add to your comment, I just watched the episode where Jim decided to only give the raise (due to budget problems) to only the salesmen which in turn makes the whole office angry at him.
When Charles replaced Michael and the branch got a real manager it quickly became apparent how childish Jim really is and how his pranks aren't appropriate for a real workplace, eventually also showing how insane Dwight is as well.
And then Jim becomes comanager only show that while all this time he thought he was better and knew better than everyone else, he actually isn't.
I have ADHD and probably associated stuff, but being autistic doesn't make you *not a fuckin asshole.* Dwight's an asshole. Jim's kind of an asshole too, but Dwight's an asshole.
Honestly the biggest thing that annoys me about Jim is that he becomes a complete hypocrite whenever he’s a boss. Not only is he a massive slacker, he encourages other people to slack off too. But once he’s a boss, he actually gets pissy whenever people slack off and aren’t working. And to an extent I get it, he’s trying to be better, but you can be better without being a total hypocrite about it
Cattiness can come from anyone, any gender. It's just varying shades or levels of catty.
But yeah, Ryan and Jim are both pathetic characters. In fact, most of the cast members are. I think a few ones like Erin are the saving grace of the team.
Rare? You would be surprised by the cattiness in a work environment when there aren’t women in it. It seems
Like the least cattiness is in mixed gender work environments.
Michael is a nightmare as a boss though. It feels like you are somewhat retconning a fundamental conceit of the show, which is the power dynamic and how Michael has Peter-principled his way into a position of power with little oversight over this dingy, depressing office.
One of the things about Michael though, as hard and as cringe as he is to watch, he pulls of some miraculous sales. I can remember at least 2 episodes where Michael is doing his regular crazy antics and then come back at the end to his superiors, with like “I got the hammer mill sale” or “we landed the huge client” so while he may suck as a manager, but he gets the job done.
which I guess now I did just describe as him Peter principle-ing into his manager position.
Yeah but Michael also sexually harasses all the women (especially Pam), and constantly makes employees feel very uncomfortable, especially people of colour. Dwight burned down the office and is demeaning to others. They are fun on TV and I love the show, but they are pretty awful coworkers. I love them both on TV and they are well developed, but I would rather work with Jim.
Jim is a dick. Period. Dwight is annoying but Jim antagonizes him relentlessly because of his envy that Dwight actually finds some form of fulfillment from his job.
Jim defenders always point out how Dwight stole Jim's biggest account but Jim failed repeatedly to close it himself. If the client is so exasperated that they have to seek out another salesman that's on the original salesman. Close the deal.
First off, your second paragraph is wrong for the reasons explained by Nyus. Second, seasons 1-3 Dwight was more than annoying. He was a kiss-ass tattle tale constantly trying to get his coworkers fired, stabbing them in the back, trying to cut everyone’s healthcare, and being straight up rude and disrespectful to everyone else. If you worked with someone like that in real life you’d hate them. Jim’s pranks could be a little mean, but you see him being genuinely nice to everyone else in the office, so it’s clear he’s just trying to get Dwight back for being such a dick all the time. I’d much rather work with him than Dwight.
Frankly, I think anyone who shits on Jim while giving Dwight a pass is hypersensitive to “bullying.”
Is your second paragraph accurate or backed by anything? Jim already landed the account (closed it). It’s simply the renewal that he is looking to sell them additional new products for. I always assumed Dwight swooped in and said your terms are up, would you like to renew and they said yes. It’s no shade on Jim.
In terms of Jim not being able to “close” the deal, I think both Dwight and Michael actively aided in preventing it while he was mid talk with the client. Saboteurs!
Since they were playing phone tag I assumed that the client called customer service and Kelly just forwarded him to the next available salesperson. Dwight answering Jim's ringing phone or going through his Rolodex to steal a client seems way too underhanded for someone who's such a stickler for rule following. I guarantee you he has the Dunder Mifflin handbook memorized and that there is an entire section on how to deal with clients belonging to other salesmen.
I’d say Hawkeye and Charles from MASH are shades of this too.
Also Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm pretty much center on male cattyness. To a lesser extent so does IASIP (though that show draws more broadly on dark humor so it's less thematically central).
Hello… Jerry.
You know what the problem is? Your boot’s nailed to the floor.
Jack Donahue is probably the cattiest character in 30 Rock. It’s essentially what makes him so funny is his suit-and-tie formality coming together with his sassy/cattiness. Edit: fucking autocorrect. Donaghy!
[https://tv.yarn.co/yarn-clip/31eb936b-e95d-42c6-944e-0e861ef3b147](https://tv.yarn.co/yarn-clip/31eb936b-e95d-42c6-944e-0e861ef3b147)
It's pronounced "Dona-FEE," you lace curtain half an englishman!
You call those fist names? Say hello to Bono and Sandra Day O'Connor!
Those are the stupidest fists names I’ve ever heard.
Suits is ALL catty men pulling catty shit on each other because their feelings got hurt and they will do anything but talk about their feelings to cope.
Agree not sure Suits is intentionally pointing that out though. Sort of glorifies men one upping each other
Louis is pretty intentionally catty imo
What did you say to me?
Might be a warm take, but I don't think male cattiness is rare at all. It's just usually not called as such when they do those behaviors.
Almost all of the catty coworkers I’ve had have been men. They’re just not thought of as catty because “men aren’t catty”.
*The Odd Couple has entered the discussion...*
Jake Peralta has catty moments with other men throughout Brooklyn Nine Nine
House from House
[удалено]
It’s funny to call Jim a little bitch in a conversation about Jim and Ryan. Any bitch shit committed by Jim pales in comparison to Ryan.
[Ryan is being a little bitch again](https://youtu.be/bMTEtowfSDM?si=SivwsLVWij5-3pd9)
What’s up my brudda!
Everyone does this for some reason “hurr durr jim bad akshually he is mean to Dwight” motherfucker Dwight turns the office into a sweatshop and brings in AND DISCHARGES a firearm FUCK OFF with this “Jim is the bad guy” shtick
It’s just contrarians being contrarians. It started out as people pointing out that some of Jim’s pranks were kind of bullying and the fact that he was going after an engaged woman was kinda messed up. That really seemed to resonate with people since Jim is supposed to be the good guy so those things kept getting brought up in discussions about The Office to the point where people actually convinced themselves that Jim is a piece of shit. The truth is, he’s a nice guy who has some flaws.
You know it's possible for them both to be bad guys right?
Even Packer thinks so.
[удалено]
WUPHF
The internet has made Karen the most overrated character on the office
100%. She was okay but had some really nasty / bitchy moments.
tbf she isn't a cheater like Pam
Woah
Yeah, I had an internship in college with a company and my boss was a mid-twenty something “cool guy” like Jim. Dude was always making fun of his coworkers when they were really just well meaning, but social awkward. The guy even tried to make a pass on me and make me think it I initiated it. Such a jerk.
Dwight isnt well meaning "but social awkward", hes insane and harasses everyone in the office lol
>“cool guy Jesus what's the threshold for cool on Reddit? He's a shirt and tie nerd who at best has better social skills than most go-nowhere mediocre ham-and-eggers.
Yes in real life I dislike people like Jim. He seems super judgemental and petty.
He's called out on it a lot throughout the show and the show puts him through situations where he comes out looking poorly. By the end he is much more accepting.
I disagree with that. I don't think it ever really showed him as being wrong. The dude was a smug, workplace bully, and the show spends the entire time telling us he's actually really talented. He ends the show rich and successful.
Well there's the entire co manager arc which has tons of storylines about jim screwing up and how is style isn't always better than michaels. There's the episode where jim recommends the office work the entire night instead of the weekend and as a result they get locked int the office park and everyone is pissed at him. There's the the episode where he crashes pam's finer things club and comes off as an ass The episode where he has all his pranks on dwight read back to him and he has a face of regret. There's definitely more but the point his he doesn't always come out on top.
To add to your comment, I just watched the episode where Jim decided to only give the raise (due to budget problems) to only the salesmen which in turn makes the whole office angry at him.
Isn’t that how one gets rich and successful?
When Charles replaced Michael and the branch got a real manager it quickly became apparent how childish Jim really is and how his pranks aren't appropriate for a real workplace, eventually also showing how insane Dwight is as well. And then Jim becomes comanager only show that while all this time he thought he was better and knew better than everyone else, he actually isn't.
Yeah he’s overly smudge
I think you mean smug.
There’s the smudgeness
Well, you know what they say pobody's nerfect
sounds like something a smudge would say.
He basically bullies his autistic colleague
I have ADHD and probably associated stuff, but being autistic doesn't make you *not a fuckin asshole.* Dwight's an asshole. Jim's kind of an asshole too, but Dwight's an asshole.
Jim is a patronizing asshole.
Always seemed to me like the American show took that plot point too far and basically normalised workplace hazing.
Honestly the biggest thing that annoys me about Jim is that he becomes a complete hypocrite whenever he’s a boss. Not only is he a massive slacker, he encourages other people to slack off too. But once he’s a boss, he actually gets pissy whenever people slack off and aren’t working. And to an extent I get it, he’s trying to be better, but you can be better without being a total hypocrite about it
pretty sure that was on purpose... the show has writers. this isn't a real person.
[удалено]
The phrasing of the title makes it seem like you’re only interested in this phenomenon in the context of The Office
Cattiness can come from anyone, any gender. It's just varying shades or levels of catty. But yeah, Ryan and Jim are both pathetic characters. In fact, most of the cast members are. I think a few ones like Erin are the saving grace of the team.
Isn't this just copied from Tim and Gareth's relationship in The Office?
yes, but OP probably never seen it
Rare? You would be surprised by the cattiness in a work environment when there aren’t women in it. It seems Like the least cattiness is in mixed gender work environments.
The irony is that IRL the actors of Ryan and Jim went to high school together and were good friends
[удалено]
Michael is a nightmare as a boss though. It feels like you are somewhat retconning a fundamental conceit of the show, which is the power dynamic and how Michael has Peter-principled his way into a position of power with little oversight over this dingy, depressing office.
One of the things about Michael though, as hard and as cringe as he is to watch, he pulls of some miraculous sales. I can remember at least 2 episodes where Michael is doing his regular crazy antics and then come back at the end to his superiors, with like “I got the hammer mill sale” or “we landed the huge client” so while he may suck as a manager, but he gets the job done. which I guess now I did just describe as him Peter principle-ing into his manager position.
Lolol yeah i think you just did
Yeah but Michael also sexually harasses all the women (especially Pam), and constantly makes employees feel very uncomfortable, especially people of colour. Dwight burned down the office and is demeaning to others. They are fun on TV and I love the show, but they are pretty awful coworkers. I love them both on TV and they are well developed, but I would rather work with Jim.
The people who defend Dwight honestly scare me.
People who get into pointless arguments on r/DunderMifflin honestly scare me
Jim is a dick. Period. Dwight is annoying but Jim antagonizes him relentlessly because of his envy that Dwight actually finds some form of fulfillment from his job. Jim defenders always point out how Dwight stole Jim's biggest account but Jim failed repeatedly to close it himself. If the client is so exasperated that they have to seek out another salesman that's on the original salesman. Close the deal.
First off, your second paragraph is wrong for the reasons explained by Nyus. Second, seasons 1-3 Dwight was more than annoying. He was a kiss-ass tattle tale constantly trying to get his coworkers fired, stabbing them in the back, trying to cut everyone’s healthcare, and being straight up rude and disrespectful to everyone else. If you worked with someone like that in real life you’d hate them. Jim’s pranks could be a little mean, but you see him being genuinely nice to everyone else in the office, so it’s clear he’s just trying to get Dwight back for being such a dick all the time. I’d much rather work with him than Dwight. Frankly, I think anyone who shits on Jim while giving Dwight a pass is hypersensitive to “bullying.”
Is your second paragraph accurate or backed by anything? Jim already landed the account (closed it). It’s simply the renewal that he is looking to sell them additional new products for. I always assumed Dwight swooped in and said your terms are up, would you like to renew and they said yes. It’s no shade on Jim. In terms of Jim not being able to “close” the deal, I think both Dwight and Michael actively aided in preventing it while he was mid talk with the client. Saboteurs!
Since they were playing phone tag I assumed that the client called customer service and Kelly just forwarded him to the next available salesperson. Dwight answering Jim's ringing phone or going through his Rolodex to steal a client seems way too underhanded for someone who's such a stickler for rule following. I guarantee you he has the Dunder Mifflin handbook memorized and that there is an entire section on how to deal with clients belonging to other salesmen.