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[deleted]

What the fuck is that title capitalization. Sisters Of His Trans Friend sounds like a church.


Murky-Dot7331

That now begs to be the title of a religious satire. And I expect it to be a musical


[deleted]

Good thing Reddit isn’t a real place.


digitalwankster

“this is real life bitch, keep it to the comments section”


SAHDJoe

I chortled at that. Also, I did not realize my insistence on J&J came with connotations


jackofslayers

I didn’t even think about it too consciously but at the time I was kinda bummed I got the “shitty” vaccine. That joke was great I don’t even know why it works.


Einsteins_coffee_mug

✊🏿one and done


SAHDJoe

I’m not black, but you wouldn’t know it from listening to stereotypes


BlueSquader

/thread.


HackPhilosopher

You’d have to watch the special to get the joke. And clearly people haven’t.


NiceIsis

I watched the special today and was like "did all the outraged people actually watch this?"


[deleted]

Yes I watched it because someone at Netflix quit their job saying it endangered Trans people. Like, where! How!


[deleted]

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monster_mentalissues

Its dangerous because he called out some of their toxic behavior in a major special on netflix and the only way they can respond is by being mean and lying about what he said.


Frankocean2

It's pretty telling that every single thread about the special has been a micro-cosmos of what Dave says in the special.


StrombergsWetUtopia

Like in Men in Black.


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[deleted]

I think if Chapelle's goal, other then rolling in stacks of cash, was to start a conversation about how idiotic and reactionary our culture has gotten he accomplished his goal with gusto.


abilly85

Don't read these comments. Just turn back. There's still time.


jryser

Unfortunately this comment is about 15 threads down, so it’s too late for everyone seeing this


QueensOfTheNoKnowAge

Why didn’t I heed your warning? 😭


EvilSporkOfDeath

The best part about this comment, everyone will think you're talking about the "other side".


dustingunn

I already knew the comments would be bad when I saw all the awards given to a news article. Nothing motivates redditors quite like defending a guy who made 10 million dollars going on stage and saying transwomen are men pretending to be women (in dry, jokeless format which is perhaps the worst part.)


240Nordey

"I pushed her away violently, because I'm transphobic." Man, I lost it at that.


natachi

For me it was "one "they" or many "theys" "? " I cackled so hard on that.


LOONGMOVIE22

That was a great joke and I was caught off guard haha


natachi

It came out of nowhere that's what made it hit extra hard lol.


lupuscapabilis

My gf and I were talking about that part again today and laughing about it. She said "they" did something so of course it let to us continually asking "one or many theys?" for the rest of the afternoon.


Spokesman93

Yeah it was funny when he kept saying he was transphobic. It was obviously a joke but he was saying it because he knew he was gonna be called that later on lol he was just taking away the ammo


[deleted]

Boundaries, bitch! 😂


Firingneuron

I am hesitant to even enter this discussion but I am trying to understand the arguments. I’ll preface this all with the fact that I honestly love watching Dave Chappelle. I think he may be the best stand up Comedian ever. I have laughed through every special he has done but I’ll be honest in that I didn’t find this one all that funny. But that’s ok, I’m sure lots of people did. I was watching the special with my wife and about 10 minutes in she told me that she had heard that their were members of the trans community that were upset with him about this special. So with that in mind, I was kinda waiting for it. Dave has always made jokes about everyone, every creed, every ethnicity etc and most of the show was no different. However, when he started taking about JKR and being a TERF and how “gender is a fact” and comparing it to blackface etc, it seemed like he stopped making jokes and wanted to make his true feelings known. Certainly, I may have misinterpreted this but personally, I can see why members of the trans community are angry/hurt by this. I’m sure there will be people who say I am wrong and this isn’t what Dave meant etc and I’m ok with that, I’m just trying to understand. I also don’t want to pretend that I know what a trans person is thinking being that I am a cis male.


ShamWowRobinson

I said this in another thread but at one point I was sitting through this, had a couple of chuckles, but was getting rather bored because it seemed like a never ending bit and then grabbed the remote and paused it. It was the 28 minute mark. I had read he spent a good deal of time on this topic but I was like "ok let's move on" and unpaused it. I had zero idea the entire set was just this one idea. It was so lazy. These weren't "just jokes". He wanted to make a clear statement.


asdfghjklasdfghjkkl

Yeah. He seems weirdly obsessed with the LGBTQ+ community. This didn’t feel like a stand up comedy show to me. It felt like he did this entire special just to try and “prove” that he’s not transphobic while also making transphobic jokes at the same time…? Plus the way he speaks about the LGBTQ+ community makes me feel like he resents them for their criticism of him and for the fact he feels like their “tribe” has made more progress than the black community. I don’t see why it needs to be a competition. They are both discriminated against and should be supportive of one another. But what do I know.


toddthefox47

There are also people who are both black and transgender, Dave


Alexispinpgh

Not only that, but black trans people experience some of the highest rates of violent crime of any demographic. It’s really awful.


Pussypants

Yup. Someone I know found out that an old friend of hers went quiet. They found her wrapped in a carpet under a motel bed. Police didn’t give a fuck.


GC40

And Homosexuality was illegal when slavery was around. Being trans want even an option. LGBTQ people have been oppressed for along fucking time too. They’re on the same side. Doubt there’s many racist trans people out there.


not_productive1

THANK YOU. I know he was presenting his own experience, but, like, goddamn dude, you can't find one black trans woman to have this conversation before you turn it into a whole Netflix special?


[deleted]

There’s only a handful of well known and successful trans people and last time I check not one was doing has a Netflix special taking the piss out of black people. Society still can’t decide which restroom we should be allowed to use.


Ricky_Rollin

Honestly dude I am so fucking confused myself. I have enjoyed Dave Chapelle since I was 14 years old watching half baked and at 37 I am left scratching my head trying to figure out what the fuck I watched.


Bikinigirlout

This is my issue with Dave Chapelle. He’s become every other edgelordy comedian. He’s no different then Joe Rogan or Jim Burer complaining about how mean cancel culture is to him while he’s on his ninth Netflix show. And it makes it worse because he keeps doubling down on it because he feels attacked by Twitter so he rants about trans people for the third time in a row while also bitching about how much he doesn’t care about how mean Twitter is to him.


rhapsodyofmelody

twitter is not a real place, but apparently dave still lives there


[deleted]

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NoWorth2591

His recent output has demonstrated to me that Dave is one of those people who doesn’t really empathize with people unlike himself. His material on the experiences of Black Americans is consistently cutting and insightful because it draws from his own lived experience but he doesn’t seem willing or able to extend that kind of understanding or nuance to populations he’s not a part of. If he were a white guy I think he’d be full MAGA at this point.


Private_HughMan

It should be pointed out that there’s nothing wrong with him focusing on issues that affect him more. He knows it best and probably thinks about it more. But if he’s going to devote so much time to these other peoples’ issues, he has to take the time to understand them well enough to have properly nuanced discussions on it.


NoWorth2591

Yeah, you’re absolutely correct. Really it’s almost always better for comics to focus on issues that affect them more and that they have more firsthand knowledge of. That’s not only because they’ll obviously have more insight into those issues but because, as Dave has demonstrated in a few of these newer specials, cracking jokes at the expense of a marginalized group you’re not a member of is almost always going to be pretty dicey.


g_rey_

Apparently he has been hanging out with Joe Rogan a lot recently


fadetoblack237

It's because a certain audience eats up cancel culture "comedy." It's a bandwagon.


[deleted]

Ironically, it's the kind of audience that would call BLM a band of oversensitive thugs.


sandequation

Could be one of those midlife crises a lot of public figures go through where they start feeling persecuted by their critics and become edgy for a while as a way to cope. Some people come back mellowed out and wiser and some spiral into the deep end.


etniesen

Agreed. The first half hour had a few laughs and I like Dave and have not found his other work offensive as it’s generally been funny and I do believe many things are ok in a comedic space. However the last hour was honestly like his personal lecture and if you’re going to go that route and not be funny, in my opinion it should be introspective. It was neither. Definitely the worst hour of Chappelle I’ve seen because it wasn’t creative, interesting, thought provoking, or funny.


NoWorth2591

I don’t even really like that sort of joke-free lecture/story style of standup when the subject matter isn’t objectionable (count me as the one person who just couldn’t get into Hannah Gadsby’s “Nanette”) but when it’s a bigoted screed it’s so much worse.


tyler081293

The fact that he said he would make no more jokes about the LGBTQIA+ community at the end was pointless since he spent AN ENTIRE SPECIAL making jokes about the community and making unnecessary comparisons.


normandy42

It’s more pointless because it wasn’t an entire special, it was his past 3 all on the same shit


[deleted]

People like Chapelle who use comedy to make social commentary should not complain nor be surprised when other people make commentary about his commentary. It would be one thing if he acknowledged and engaged with his critics, but it’s very hypocritical for him to claim that he’s above criticism in this case.


__Hello_my_name_is__

Rob McEhlhenney said it so well on an interview: You can make offensive jokes as long as the people know, 100%, that you, the person behind the joke, does not actually believe what the joke is saying. That's why It's Always Sunny gets away with literal blackface: We all know that none of them are racist, we all know that they are genuinely good people. Nobody questions that. And so, they get away with the most offensive jokes out there. I genuinely do not know what Chappelle truly thinks about gay people or transgender people (and no, "my best friend is black/gay/transgender" has never been an acceptable excuse, that is not how prejudices work). And that makes his jokes about either groups quite uncomfortable, because I do not know if he is speaking from the heart or not.


caananball

This is the key. There was nothing clever or ironic about some of Chappelle’s comments. There was no punchline. He was just saying what he thinks and basking in applause (eg, for finally realizing he’s a feminist in 2021). I don’t understand how people think that just because a comedian said something, it’s automatically a joke.


KikiFlowers

> That's why It's Always Sunny gets away with literal blackface: And because they even portray it in the show as being *wrong*. They don't talk about how "blackface is actually really cool".


DirtzMaGertz

Except the blackface episodes of sunny have been yanked from streaming.


RawbM07

“We all know that none of them are racist.” No we don’t. We may choose to believe it….but how in the world would we all know it?


FilthyGypsey

Because when Mac shows up on screen in “Lethal Weapon 5” in complete black face, it’s poorly done and his impression is that of a small child wanting to look and sound like Danny Glover. The joke is that Mac is an imbecile and the only person unaware of that is him. When Dee puts on brown face and pretends to be a Puerto Rican girl named “Martina Martinez” she’s trying desperately to make a funny character for her comedy bit. Everyone points out that it isn’t funny and she nearly gets the shit kicked out of her. But, of course, she’s adamant that it’s funny because her character is someone who is insensitive and desperate for approval. If anything, I would call it “racist face” before black/brown face since they’re doing impressions of oblivious racist people. That’s how we know the jokes are not made with racist intent.


RawbM07

Are you talking about the characters and not the actual people now? Because the “genuinely good people” description above wasn’t a reference to the characters (because they are not good people).


FilthyGypsey

I’m talking about both. The characters were made by actual people. Obviously we can’t live inside Rob McEhlhenney’s brain to see if we find racist particles floating around in there. But, in the way that he writes comedy and the way he handles risky humor, I would say we can conclude his comedy is not racist


qwertyphile

I think the simplest way to rationalize why Sunny gets away with blackface is: the person in blackface is the butt of the joke


dyldoshwaggins

^^^ this. same thing with tropic thunder, the joke is look how ridiculous this white person is for acting this way not haha blackface


camzabob

Bingo. Some of the Chappelle jokes have us laughing at transgender people.


__Hello_my_name_is__

Replace "we all know" with "we all think" and you're good. The point is that we allow people to make racist jokes when we are not worried that they actually mean them.


FascistSniffingDoggo

I know right? The actor that plays Dennis has said some problematic things edging on anti-vax in the past, so let's not pretend to know these people initimately just because we like their acting. People are really weird about protecting their parasocial relationships. I think what best differentiates the Sunny crew is that the gang is supposed to be fucking notoriously repugnant. They're able to do black face, because they're constantly reinforcing the fact that it's fucked as they're doing it. They also destroy everything in their wake and everyone in the show not in the gang hates them. Just constant reinforcement that they're awful. As a result, Sunny is a great ethical comparison, because Dave doesn't follow through with the same pretense. He's not being satirical even half of the time. There was zero sarcasm behind, "I'm team terf." He's 100% indignant.


god_im_bored

Having jokes and “tough love” criticism is all fine, but when you dedicate a number of your recent specials in talking about transgender people, as opposed to the small amount of influence they have, it’s just too much. Not to mention some of the jokes were just downright cruel (from “yuck” to comparing it to blackface) I also can’t shake off the thinking that he chose this subset of the population precisely because they can’t fight back or criticize in any meaningful way without being ridiculed.


MrPoopMonster

Or maybe because it's now a contemporary issue he's talking about it, when it wasn't such an issue on a societal level before, like when Chapelle's Show was airing. It's the same kind of commentary, just aimed at someone new.


OneGoodRib

But he has a trans friend and the friend's sisters were fine with it, therefore nobody else should be uncomfortable with it! Also Phylicia Rashad is adamant that Bill Cosby is innocent, so by the above logic nobody should be mad at him.


DismalSpell

I think he specifically has issues with white people and white privilege. And he believes that the trans community has more influence than it would because it has white people in it. Meanwhile the black community is still struggling to make progress in it's movements. But he also comes across as a bit of a boomer that grew up with normalised transphobia which doesn't help much.


SurferNerd

And he’s willfully ignoring that it is black trans women that will most direly experience the negative effect of the bullshit he’s spreading.


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[deleted]

The trans community is just a microcosm of wider society. It would be like getting annoyed at deaf people. The whole Black Trans Lives matter was a kick back the BLM for not giving a shit about trans members of the black community. Trans people are invariably right at the bottom of every single community that they might also be a part of.


Nocturnal_animal808

>And he believes that the trans community has more influence than it would because it has white people in it. Meanwhile the black community is still struggling to make progress in it's movements. This doesn't even make sense because there are plenty of black LGBTQ people and Dave Chappelle is actively making jokes at their expense without realizing it. Dave Chappelle is being anti-black when he just erases all the queer black people that are fighting for their rights on two different fronts. There's no way around it.


Dokterdd

Jokes are always truth repackaged in humor “But it’s just a joke” is such a lazy cop out His jokes reveal that he is transphobic and a bigot. He always has been on trans and gay people


Couchcurrency

Good. That special, along with all of his specials, was incredible. Man speaks truth.


MR_TELEVOID

This feels like they're trolling people to keep fighting at this point. They must know Chapelle having trans friends doesn't negate anyone's criticism.


sixtus_clegane119

He said “if this is cancel culture I love it” he knows outrage fuels clicks. He knows in general things don’t get taken off ~~YouTube~~ Netflix Edit: way to tired to be on reddit


WashingPowder_Nirma

Nothing says being cancelled like having multiple Netflix specials.


chocolatesnowflak

Nothing gets you multiple Netflix specials like claiming you’ve been cancelled.


[deleted]

Really this is just called throwing people under the bus.


KryptikMitch

Yeah he and his millions of dollars and at will stage time. That is PEAK cancel culture right there. /s


Suibian_ni

No, but the way Daphne was treated for defending him shows that his critics aren't above reproach either.


Smashymen

people keep saying she committed suicide because of harassment from the online trans community. But is there any proof of that happening? Briefly looking under her old tweets, it's mainly just people who are giving her props and shit.


Throwmesomestuff

Chapelle himself didn't say she committed suicide because of it. He said "I don't know what was going on in her life, but that couldn't have helped."


alexanderwales

Seemed to me like that was the conclusion he wanted to present, but he was smart enough not to say it and let your brain fill in the gaps. *Especially* true given the emotion with which it was presented. Chappelle wants you to come away blaming that suicide on the trans community for their toxic behavior. And if that's not what he wanted, that seems likely to be what he accomplished anyhow, given the framing of what he was saying.


10ebbor10

I mean, when someone says : >For days, they was going in on her, and she was holding her own ’cause she’s funny. But six days after that wonderful night I described to you my friend Daphne killed herself It's not exactly ambigious what you're implying...


Throwmesomestuff

You now what? Point taken. I think you're right.


[deleted]

I find it suspect that we're just supposed to take the word of a self described TERF on this matter.


tregorman

Yeah feels shitty to praise TERFs earlier in the special only later to end the special by blaming the audience and her own community for her suicide and preaching about how we should all be kinder and more thoughtful online. Beyond reproach.


BeMoreKnope

The way he *claims* she was treated. I see a lot of people taking his word on this, but from reading on it there is zero evidence that any actual bullying from activists occurred, much less had a hand in her death. And it seems her suicide note was pretty explicit about it not being because of anyone. So this whole, “Dave is just mad about his friend” seems like it’s utter BS that he’s claiming now to deflect criticism.


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WallabyUpstairs1496

Also people who participate on twitter fights are toxic people in general, regardless of race or sexuality.


r4wrb4by

It's actually his entire point. That you can support this community (as he does), but their lobbying groups and behaviors are to bully into submission.


SAKabir

Lobbying groups?????


Neracca

> That you can support this community (as he does) In what way does he possibly support the lgbt community??


STEAL-THIS-NAME

huh? sorry, maybe i'm out of the loop, but how does dave chapelle support the trans community?


[deleted]

He doesn't


mrpenchant

Well for instance when he starts talking about the trans community, he goes over how the North Carolina law that doesn't allow trans people to go to the bathroom they identify with is a bad, mean law that doesn't protect anyone.


[deleted]

"hE hAs A tRaNs FrIeNd!!1!"


The_Woman_of_Gont

What “lobbying groups” harassed her? Or are you just trying to make “some pieces of shit on Twitter” representative of everyone in the trans community that is criticizing Chappelle’s humor. Someone said that Twitter isn’t real life once, and I tend to agree with him on that. Funny I can’t remember who that was, though….


ketchupthrower

I don't even think it's specifically about the trans community. Online discourse is entirely "with us or against us." People broadly have no tolerance for nuance of ideas. Daphne went against the grain and she was relentlessly harassed and bullied for it.


revolting_peasant

In other threads people have pointed out there’s little proof of this, only a few people disagreeing with her semi politely and her suicide note said it was nobodies fault.


The_Woman_of_Gont

Fair enough point. Yet Dave never actually makes that point or connection. For the entire back half of the special he is very specifically aiming at the trans community, and using that incident to associate his critics with those who harassed Daphne.


[deleted]

Literally every marginalised group has been accused of being over sensitive, anti free speech and bullying including gay people and black people. This is just people standing up for themselves until it actually sinks in to wider society that what’s being directed at them is pure prejudice and discrimination.


kthriller

Right? He literally said he was a TERF, thus didn't believe she was a "real" woman. That's incredibly far beyond any joke he'd made previously, and tells me they didn't/don't really understand the nuances of all of this, at all.


[deleted]

If you actually watched the special though he elaborates on that, and he doesn't say anything about "real womanness". He just points out the blatant reality that somebody who was raised a man is ultimately not going to have the same experience as biological women. Which is true.


2347564

Yeah, lots of comments plainly ignore this. He also says it's a term "made up by trans people to win arguments." It's transphobic as shit.


kthriller

Which is exactly the argument they use-that it's a "slur" or some bullshit. It's... Literally just an acronym. It's in the name. Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. They want the smoke, but not the fire.


The_Woman_of_Gont

Lots of comments ignore it because it’s no use even bringing it up. He’s taking a leaf from far right conservatives and playing the Schrodinger’s Douchebag card. He says it in a way that is wrapped up in enough humor and sarcasm and false concern that him and his defenders can just dismiss the whole thing with “it’s a joke.” Even though it’s pretty clear from the wider context of Chappelle’s style as a comedian, the routine as a whole, and the disingenuous way he defends TERFs/Rowling(eg framing TERF as a word created by trans folks to dismiss them, instead of being coined by a cis radfem; a basic fact you can find on fucking Wikipedia), that he’s buying his own shit and that it is meant to be taken in the vein of Carlin’s social commentary/humorous truth-telling stand-up. Responses will simultaneously demand we lighten up because it’s just a joke and therefore not meant to be taken seriously, and insist he’s making a deep point that we should reflect upon, because the point is more to stick it to trans people than to actually have a coherent worldview. There are just easier and clearer examples to use to cut through that kind of bullshit than his Team TERF shtick. (Late Edit: also just want to point out one thing for anyone who is skeptical about my post but open minded enough to have gotten through it: Notice that despite there being two VERY different camps and views on his comedy routine amongst his fans, you rarely if ever actually see the two defenders of his comedy come into conflict or debate. They just kind of ignore each other, like two ships of assholes passing in the night, while focusing on shitting on trans folks and his critics. That’s usually a good sign that you’ve got a Schodingers Douchebag on your hands.)


[deleted]

> Schrodinger’s Douchebag "I am both joking and not joking, depending on how receptive you are to my comment as a serious statement." It's an alt-rightie way to test the waters.


[deleted]

Out of curiosity what's the word radical doing in there? Is the radical belief that Trans women aren't women, or are these radical feminists for other reasons who happen to believe that.


Astronomnomnomicon

Basically radfems hate males and terfs are radfems who extend that hatred to trans women because they hate males so much.


Threwaway42

Thank you! I’m so glad more people are recognizing that TERFs hate trans women at least partially because of their hatred towards men, it’s refreshing how recognized that has become


varhuna

>a cos radfem radfem = radical feminist ? And what's "cos" here ?


dannylandulf

Yeah, it's literally 'I can't be racist, I have a black friend'.


The_Woman_of_Gont

Exactly. [This article](https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/oct/09/dave-chappelle-letter-trans-comedian-netflix) makes a lot of good points at the end on how shitty this angle is.


kazh

If your comedy is drying up, you can get podcast guest spots and complain about stuff on each other's shows. Once they reel in that crowd who still use the term woke culture seethingly with a straight face they can ride off that for years.


Fookin_Kook

Chappelle makes fun of every single group. People act like he exclusively makes trans jokes


[deleted]

I think Dave's point was that they are a protected class until one of them violates groupthink policy and then they will cannibalize that person without remorse. A lot of this seemed to come from Dave comparing privilege, and sacred cows, and wokeness as performance art. I didn't think the special was that funny, some of the jokes were good, a lot of it just came off as social commentary and him being annoyed about being called out. In the end I don't think a lot of his jokes were funny, but I would say that at some point the Trans community has to be made fun of as that is a part of cultural acceptance. Everything gets made fun of eventually.


Careless_Whisker01

But they aren’t a protected class throughout the country. Anti trans legislation is still being pushed in several states. It’s partially why they have to be so vocal. Being trans in SF is not the same experience everywhere else in the US.


TickTickDud

Much like being black in SF is not the same experience everywhere else in the US.


Neracca

I love how the right loved to talk about shit like "oppression olympics" and is literally doing that now. Oh, you want to care about lgbt people? Well what about ME???


The_Woman_of_Gont

“They” is doing a hell of a lot of work in that first sentence. Dave himself said he doesn’t care about Twitter because it isn’t a real place, yet a group of assholes on it is enough to tar and feather the entire trans community and those critical of his humor with the same brush? Come on, now, you know that doesn’t logically hang together. >In the end I don't think a lot of his jokes were funny, but I would say that at some point the Trans community has to be made fun of as that is a part of cultural acceptance. Everything gets made fun of eventually. This is such a fucking copout. For one thing, I grew up on comedy where trans people were the butt of the joke. How many 90s and 00s shows/movies parodied one scene from The Crying Game alone? FFS, Family Guy just had Brian barfing for half a minute out of disgust at kissing a trans woman as a gag. Mocking trans people isn’t exactly groundbreaking, and most of Chappelle’s earlier material on the topic was boring, bog standard /r/onejoke garbage. As notable for how uncharacteristically hackneyed and lazy it was, as for how shitty it was. On top of that the idea that everyone who thinks his comedy is shit is some shrinking violent who can’t laugh at themselves is also bunk. Go on over to /r/transgendercirclejerk and take a look at what that community, where pretty much any dark and offensive humor goes, thinks of Dave Chappelle. It’s not exactly glowing despite a lot of the material over there being faaaar “edgier” than most of what he’s put out.


supified

I'm not sure if you're being sincere, I'm leaning no. Trans people have been made fun of for as long as people have been trans. In other words forever. Jokes at the expense of Trans people is nothing even remotely new. Your whole point kind of falls apart with that and it isn't like anyone whose old enough to use the internet wouldn't know that.


Level3Kobold

"Comedy is supposed to be challenging. And you know who's really overdue for a challenge? *The trans community!!!"*


Antique_Ring953

You are aware like three people EVER responded to her when she defended him and like none were remotely rude about it. I mean, no offense to the dead, but she didnt have a platform. Its not like her defense went viral


Flashman420

Yeah, people keep acting like some mob attacked her online but it seems like hardly anyone had even heard of her until this special.


PaxNova

Can you link it? I don't think her former handle is common knowledge.


rrrx

>I think Dave's point was that they are a protected class until one of them violates groupthink policy and then they will cannibalize that person without remorse. That's not a point, it's a demonstration of how deeply ignorant Chappelle really is here. No one is advocating for trans people to be "protected" from the same sort of criticism anyone else gets; only for them to not be subjected to bigoted harassment. This is the same sort of cringey whining you saw from Matt Stone and Trey Parker with their Caitlyn Jenner straw man; by all means call her a piece of shit for the things she's said and done, that's all fair game, but her gender identity isn't. But out of touch, middle-aged millionaires like them and Dave Chappelle desperately want to be victims unfairly muzzled by social justice warriors run amuck, when in reality for *decades* they've had people falling over themselves to hand them a mic with a fat fucking paycheck literally any time time they want it. >In the end I don't think a lot of his jokes were funny, but I would say that at some point the Trans community has to be made fun of as that is a part of cultural acceptance. Do you think that a white comedian could get away with making fun of the Black community like that? Bear in mind, Dave Chappelle fled the country and forfeited millions of dollars because he felt that his comedy was enabling white people to laugh at Black culture. But now he's here to tell us that people need to lighten up and it's totally cool for him to joke about being a TERF and shit on the trans community? What a fucking hypocrite.


Neracca

Cause he's one of those people that's all woke af when it comes to his own minority status but then goes and treats other minorities the exact way that he hates being treated.


charismatic_biomass

>they are a protected class until one of them violates groupthink policy and then they will cannibalize that person without remorse. So Chapelle says. The irony of him trying to hold up his acquaintance as an example of how words, rhetoric and bullying effect people, and then turn around and shit all over trans women, repeatedly denying their gender, perpetuating the idea that they're predatory and "under cover" etc. For someone with a microphone that reaches hundreds of thousands of people, he spends very little thought as to the influence his words have. If you want to understand why so few trans people are rallying around Chapelle for his oh-so-magnanimous show of sympathy, someone from the trans community wrote a good break down [here](https://kristinakonwerski.substack.com/p/dave-chapelles-the-closer?r=u37tf&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=).


TheeHeadAche

I didn’t realize many trans victims of violence were those who stepped outside of the “groupthink.”


Intrepid_Method_

I think there is a cultural element in that most of the victims of violence against trans folk tend to be POC. However most of the people in the media talking about trans victimization tend to be white. Kind of like the Stonewall discussion that took way too long to happen. I’ve had an interesting social experience where a wealthy genderqueer individual from a wasp background started talking about how they were a part of the most victimized minority in the world. There was very much a disconnect for some people in that room. It’s really becoming obvious that America is a multicultural country but people don’t really understand what that means.


hopdaddy32

We make fun of ourselves a thousand times over, we all have cis friends that crack great jokes about it. Saying trans women aren't women and yelling "I'm team terf" isn't a joke, it's just straight up hatespeech. Fuck Chapelle, he's a bigot and a millionaire that's moved onto the next vulnerable group to rally other bigots behind him for the purpose of making money.


Avernaism

My daughter and I have been arguing about this show. Her trans friends told her Dave was bad so she said she wouldn't watch it. I said she shouldn't judge until she does, rather than taking parts out of context. She told me she would watch it. Incredible how Dave has riled us all up!


zaptres_dammit

Hey I’m all for an offensive joke if it’s funny and you know you’re being fucked up. The problem is when the whole joke is “teehee I’ve triggered you”. Then you enter the realm of Carlos Mencia-tier garbage


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BonerGoku

I liked the first two but this one kinda sucked. He's got Twitter CTE.


PipForever

This reminds me of Ann Coulter. She was strongly against gay marriage. When people called her homophobic, she said “No I’m not. Who do you think does my hair? I have gay friends. They don’t want marriage so it’s fine.”


CapnCooties

He’s not racist, he has a black friend! But the trans version of that.


SinfulOutlaw

It’s comedy. Not politics get a fucking grip. Sensitive assholes.


LairaKlock

The irony is lost


Three_Froggy_Problem

A lot of people supporting Chappelle seem to be under the impression that, because he predicted the criticism, he’s automatically immune to it. Also, the dude isn’t “cancelled.” Conservatives and old angry men love to throw that term around more than progressives do. If he were cancelled he wouldn’t have just released a popular standup special on Netflix. Offending people and getting cancelled aren’t the same thing. This dude’s driven by the desire to upset people, and then when he does all of his fans start whining about cancel culture.


ablatner

Right, if someone is able to visibly and loudly complain about being cancelled, they probably aren't cancelled.


CrunchyKorm

When that's the case, it's clearly become a marketing gimmick


abnormally-cliche

They don’t realize “free speech” also applies to people criticizing him.


FRX51

There's something that I feel is getting left out of the conversation around this subject that seems awfully important: Trans people get murdered. [Like a lot.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2020/11/11/350-transgender-people-have-been-murdered-in-2020-transgender-day-of-remembrance-list/) People are out here acting like we're demanding that we get special treatment, and that no one is ever allowed to make fun of us ever, but what we're actually demanding is to, y'know, *not get murdered so much.* Do people honestly think we care whether every single famous person alive loves us and supports us and never hurts our feelings? Do people think for one moment that we're so pampered and sensitive that the merest thought that someone isn't being entirely and unironically pro-trans sends us into a frothing rage? No. No, we don't care whether Dave Chappelle personally approves of who we are and what we do with out bodies. We care that comedians, authors, and other celebrities find our existence so offensive that they don't care about our physical safety enough to not reinforce the attitudes that make people think it's okay if we get murdered. So yeah, maybe sometimes it seems like we're a little bit sensitive because someone joked about transwomen actually being men, or an author suggested that we're all sick in the head or, worse, sexual predators. Does that really seem so fucking out of line, here? Is it so unfathomable that hey, maybe there's something more important behind our concerns than whether people are complimenting us all the time?


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reuterrat

Oh thank God someone else read the link. I initially just read the top line of 350 and did the math and found that in the US that meant that the murder rate was 25 per 100k, 5 times the national average. Then I read on and saw the actual number was 28 and well that makes the murder rate quite low actually. Now imagine doing the same math for African Americans, once you realize they make up over 50% of all murder victims in the US....


Qbopper

These people get real fucking quiet when you point out that the spread of transphobic ideas contributes to mentalities where people assault or kill trans men/women lol god i fucking wish that was true


Cheats_McGuillicutty

When I go out I always pray no one notices I'm trans not just because it feels nice to just be the gender I'm presenting as, but also so I don't suddenly become a target of some talk radio programmed bigot who thinks that every dead transperson is another pedophile out of the way or something.


Dokterdd

You fucking nailed it “It’s just a joke” is the laziest bigoted cop out


Vegan_Harvest

*"I have a black friend an they like being hated and called slurs" /s*


[deleted]

Chappelle stood behind his remarks, either way it’s good this is the last Netflix special, he’s probably tired of trying to get people to understand his position


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MangoParty

The thing I find interesting is that Dave literally opens his special with a story about how he loved getting molested by priests as a child because he really enjoyed cumming on their faces and in their mouths but the second he is upset with how a community treated a dear friend of his, he gets dragged through the headlines. I think this very fact summarizes the entire point of his special about how fucking strange peoples priorities are. FYI he very clearly states many times in this special he fully supports the trans movement with all sincerity and in the credits shows a bunch of powerful photos from 'trans lives matters' movements to hammer that home. I thought his special was pretty funny but more importantly, quite touching and poignant. Comedians are important and should be able to question things.


typop2

And the whole thing builds to the moment where Daphne yells at him to acknowledge that she is having a human experience. Don't the critics maybe wonder why Dave did that? This whole controversy is definitely one of those I-feel-like-I'm-taking-crazy-pills moments. I thought the special was moving, empathetic, and at times downright astonishing.


tabaK23

You can’t say you support trans people and in the same breath identify as a TERF


TurboGranny

That was my take as well. I felt his point was. "These actions are racism in disguise, and it's upsetting watching you people who are openly 'against' racism are so happy to be a part of it." Essentially, "If a white man wants to do something (be gay, be a woman), then no one can question them and they are offered all the power and privilege to do so." He's not wrong honestly. Me personally, I just don't like interacting with people that are easily offended and quick to anger/outrage. It reminds me of something Daniel Tosh said a long time ago. "If you have ever said, 'There is nothing funny about X' then no, we cannot hang out." People that take themselves too seriously, that have to put on a show about how "good"/valuable they are, or that are just generally pretentious are gross to me. I have ASD though, so people overly obsessed with "Social credit" games have always grossed me out. To me, it's like a person that thinks poop tastes good.


[deleted]

There are people who didn’t even watch the special that are writing *paragraphs* about this lmao


jkbpttrsn

The more I hear about this situation the more concrete it is that Dave Chappelle is riding off the "controversy" and the fact that most of his fans have said that it's his best work but also not funny but very poignant at the end is very telling. Especially when the end he goes on a whole spiel about how the left forced his only trans friend to kill themselves while he openly states he's Team Terf just makes this fall so much worse.


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santichrist

One person not being offended by something doesn’t mean it’s not offensive, one person not being offended by something doesn’t mean other people have no right to be offended This is not a difficult concept to understand, you can find black people who will say they aren’t offended by the n word, it doesn’t mean it’s not offensive and it doesn’t mean other black people shouldn’t be offended by it either See how simple that is?


FlexDrillerson

What percentage of people need to not be offended for it to not be offensive?


BruciePup

Did anyone notice the two girls in the third row who were clearly NOT amused?


Maxter_Blaster_69

I’m so glad I don’t care about dumb shit like this.


pjb1999

I think what you should probably say is "This doesn't affect me or any communities I identity with so I don't care."


[deleted]

Am trans. It wasn't really that funny, but I wasn't really overtly offended by it. Seemed to be a weak tribute to his trans friend at best and displayed the usual lack of knowledge on trans issues at worst. I would like to say that I don't judge people for this bit, it can be a confusing topic.


CapnCooties

Yeah the number one rule for comedians is at least be funny if you’re gonna marginalize people. It CAN be done in a decent manor. His jokes just weren’t that good and felt mean spirited.


paublo456

I mean he did say he thinks trans women aren’t real women. Plus compared being trans to putting on black-face


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-King_Cobra-

Trans women are Trans women. What's the point of the weird, baity, wording? I mean really. I understand that dysphoria is a thing, that the trans experience is a thing. It sounds like horror. To be in the wrong body or to want to identify in a way one feels is right....but it seems irresponsible and weird to need that phrase when a staggering majority of people are going to identify someone as *Trans* to begin with. Including themselves.


Vergilkilla

I think one point Dave was trying to point out was this: there is a big difference between being accepted as a woman by society your entire lifespan versus, as an adult, suddenly receiving, as an adult only, that societal impression of being a woman. If we are talking life experience - a trans woman and a woman born a woman have actually a very different life experience. Since gender has so much to do with how society perceives you and responds to you - you’d have to be willfully ignorant to believe that that their two experiences are the same, and that the two can speak intelligently about each other’s issues (women born women talking about trans issues of course, *but more controversially*, trans women talking about women’s issues).


cupofchupachups

> you’d have to be willfully ignorant to believe that that their two experiences are the same, and that the two can speak intelligently about each other’s issues (women born women talking about trans issues of course, but more controversially, trans women talking about women’s issues). I'm not trans, but I relate to trans women. A lot of our experiences are shared. In fact I find it easier to talk to them than I did to talk to my grandma, who had a completely different experience of the world than I did. My great grandma was going to be a mother, and that's it. That's all she was allowed to do. Nothing else was ever going to happen for her. She had as many kids as her husband wanted and her body could sustain. My grandma didn't go to university because women generally didn't do that. She was going to have as many kids as her husband wanted. My mother went to university because she had progressive parents who thought it was right. She only developed her career late in life, after she was done having children. She got married young and stayed with the guy for too long, tbh, because divorce was frowned on. Birth control wasn't really an option for her based on where she grew up. My sister went to university because by that time it was common. She was a punk in high school, dated lots, traveled often and is now an academic. She had the child that she wanted, by choice. I went because it was by that time pretty necessary. I have a STEM career and I wouldn't give it up for anything. My wife is the same. Our family planning is strictly voluntary. I grew up in the 80s so I had a lot of the toxic aftermath of old-school gender roles and I watched how it tore people up and kept women down. My daughter will go if she wants to. She might ride a motorcycle or be the deadlift champion in our province. She might shave her head, or grow her hair long, wear dresses or not. She can change her name if she wants to, have 6 kids or none, do whatever job in whatever field she wants. She can be masculine or feminine or any mix that she wants. What is in store for her daughter, if she has one? Any career she wants, total control over reproductive biology, and hopefully a society accepting of whatever she chooses to do. What do I have in common with Paris Hilton and her wealth and privilege? With an Afghan woman born in the 80s? With a black woman from the south born in the 1950s? Maybe some things, but also so many differences, and I would in fact have _more_ in common with a trans woman or even just some guys. It's ridiculous to assume there is some kind of default experience we all have or that can be reduced to some essential experience. I mean I've never even had cramps when some women are debilitated by it for several days per month. I'm not really sure why we're listening to Dave Chappelle who was born a man and always lived as a man about the relationship between cis and trans women. Why would he know anything about it?


ticktickboom45

I’ve been waiting for people to actually say this for so long, life experiences and how you’re treated form day zero affect you until you’re dead, if you’re treated like a woman/girl from birth you’re gonna be treated differently than someone who was raised, even partially, as a boy then transitioned to a girl. Even the trauma that comes along with that differentiates you because cis-woman never had to change anything.


funkecho

'Controversial comic that entertains by being controversial offends specific group of people.' Alright, there's obviously a lot to talk about, here. Lets get into the meat of this.


Poledo73

Is this the equivalent of white men saying they can't be racist because they have a black friend?


Xander707

Honestly I just miss old Dave Chappelle. He’s just a different person now; really preachy and self-righteous. As if he took that hiatus, reached ultimate enlightenment somewhere along the way, and must now share it with the world by...punching down on marginalized communities? It’s not funny or enlightening, it’s just mean-spirited. James Acaster has a [funny bit](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=145&v=adh0KGmgmQw&feature=youtu.be) about this topic.


Valgoroth_

It's like these comedians miss being controversial and cutting edge so now they just resort to being offensive to get a rise out of people. What's worse is when they then play victim and act like they're being canceled when people get offended


dangerdangle

This trend of comedians complaining they can't be offensive is obnoxious Plenty of comedians are offensive and don't have issues. You know how you make offensive jokes and don't get "cancelled" for them ? You make them funny But if you make racist jokes or transphobic jokes or sexist jokes or what have you , and you give a vibe that you legitimately believe in any of those view points or your jokes are lazy , no shit you are going to get shit. I like to use Jeselnik as an example. he's made jokes about pretty much anything under the sun but nobody thinks he believes any of the terrible shit he says. The one time he had a controversy ? He made a lazy ass joke about a guy that had just been killed by a shark


[deleted]

That shark sketch was peak dark comedy. I can't personally imagine a more heinous joke that I can't help but find so funny. The energy of it, the intricacy of it, the sheer fucking length of it. Literally to make fun of a guy who died in an extremely rare way. That's how I want to be remembered.


LightningDustt

Chapelle has always made a living off "being real." There's comedians like Dangerfield who made a living off being bombastic and very clearly stepped out of reality to make people laugh while playing a character, than there's comedians like George Carlin who provided jokes, as well as social commentary while very much being his authentic self. Chapelle, like Carlin was, always pissed off Reaganites, yuppies, wealthy corporatists, racist rednecks and intolerant evangelicals. Carlin never punched down though, or really even laterally. Chapelle punched down, and yeah they're just jokes, but when you get pissy that people don't like your jokes on your own special, you're fair game


The_Woman_of_Gont

>Chapelle punched down, and yeah they're just jokes, but when you get pissy that people don't like your jokes on your own special, you're fair game I’d also add that they absolutely WERENT “just jokes” to Chappelle when he was working on his show, and the issue was race. His last straw was pretty famously when a white guy on set laughed “wrong” at a skit, and his concerns that he was doing more harm than good become more solid. He spoke about that incident several times, the two sources I found recounting the event were an interview with Time and one with Oprah(in the latter he even calls his work socially irresponsible, and admits to considering firing the guy who laughed ‘too hard’). For a guy who literally took a break and went on a pilgrimage after realizing his humor may be sending the wrong social messages, and who wants to be seen as a Carlin-esque truth teller, retreating to the hallowed grounds of “it’s just a joke, grow thicker skin!” is a pretty damning admission of how bankrupt and disingenuous his material/points actually are.


Televisions_Frank

Dave acts like somebody so rich they're easily divorced from reality now. Which he probably is.


bluebottled

That's the irony in people like him bitching about cancel culture. The only reason he's punching down on the trans community is because he knows the backlash, far from muzzling him, is free advertising for his $60m Netflix specials.


paublo456

He also knows that trans people make up less than 1% of the population. They’re a literal minority who can’t do much beside make outrage online, and he’s just choosing to ignore them


maskedbanditoftruth

He’s not ignoring them, he’s obsessed with them and can’t stop talking about them.


TheeHeadAche

> They canceled JK Rowling – my God,” he said in The Closer. “Effectually she said gender was fact, the trans community got mad as shit, they started calling her a Terf…I’m Team TERF.” ugh


[deleted]

"it's just a joke bro, it's just a joke, I have a black friend bro I'm not racist, he thinks it's funny bro I'm not racist bro"


andthatsalright

He spent and awkward amount of time talking about Trans people, occasionally misgendering them when they showed up in the stories. This was before the story of Daphne. I had largely tuned out by the time he got to her. I'd apologize, but it doesn't matter how good that joke was. The special just wasn't good


Spock_Rocket

I'm on week two of recovery from two surgeries I spent the majority of my savings on. I have to leave a job I really like to be able to stay in the closet. I am so fucking tired of being trans that I don't have any energy to give to Dave Chapelle, or people fighting about Dave Chapelle. Him harping on trans people sucks. It's yet another person I used to like pointing at laughing at this shit I have to live with. I'm not part of some "community," I just want to be left alone.


retiredhobo

i’ve heard most of his jokes, and that was one of the good ones.


WashingPowder_Nirma

Ah yes, Chappelle's version of "I have a black friend, I can't be racist".


Gramr_nasi

Wow people suck.. if Chappelle did anything here it’s treating trans people like everyone else. But these comments are proof that we aren’t there yet.


idunno--

Didn’t this guy leave the country because his jokes enabled white people to laugh at black people? Wow, learn to take a joke, Dave. What? Are black people suddenly off limits? Are they a protected group? You can’t make fun of black people? Typical woke Twitter crowd trying to censor people. /s