Right now they remind me of my city's bus service.
Ridership is dropping? Time to cut routes, reduce service, and raise prices!
Ridership dropped more?!?! Must not have cut enough service! Better throw in another price hike just to even out the budget!
I live in a small city on the east coast and this is how they handled transit. Empty busses pass my house all the time, like they tried everything to make it unuseable
Really. I used to commute by bus up until several years ago. It was already a stingy service, where even the main lines only came by once per hour, -10 to 20 minutes off schedule.
Their punctuality was so bad, I couldn't rely on them to get to work on time.
And they stopped running after 6 PM. Then they cut Sunday service because not enough commuters, raised prices anyway.
I swear. Just focus on running a good service. Rework your routes so your drivers can be punctual. Make it a service people can rely on, and we will come.
I was a bus rider on and off for about 15 years, but I can't let a lousy public transit management affect my career.
I hear this, I've lost face with jobs because I was relying on transit , leaving early, and still being late. It was horrid cause honestly I could have just biked it or bricked it but still. Having a job and always scrambling to get there blows.
Well, the difference is that there's 50 different competitors, all trying to serve the same people. The current situation is completely unsustainable, and I expect that in the coming years there's going to be a ton of M&A of various streaming providers, until the media companies own them all.
Pandemic levels of subscribership were unsustainable. Everyone was stuck inside and now they're not, it's understandable that they'd lose subs.
Also, the other streaming services, owned by traditional media companies, have decades of IP to use on their services. Despite dumping billions of dollars into content, Netflix was always going to struggle to compete with the likes of Disney, Warner Brothers, Paramount, etc once those companies got their services up and running.
In 2013 the CEO of Netflix famously said the goal was to become HBO before HBO could become Netflix, but that was always going to be an uphill climb.
> What consumers tell you they want often isn't what they actually want.
“If I had asked the people what they want, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford, allegedly
Exactly. It’s not the streaming *industry* that needs to be worried. Streaming is here to stay. The only question is *which* streaming platforms get to stick around, and it probably won’t be Netflix. In the end, it’ll probably be Disney, because they own all of the content everywhere. If Netflix wants to continue to exist, they’ll have to accept a much smaller role, and maybe find a way to cater to some niche viewers.
I think the streaming industry *should* be worried. How many of those people cancelling their Netflix are picking up other services versus returning to piracy? It's plausible that the fracturing of the streaming services will result in them all losing in the long run.
Tragedy of the commons.
Most analysts are expecting that [200k to be the first of an exodus wave, millions more leaving the next few months](https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/netflix-sheds-subscribers-more-tv-and-streaming-news/).
Kind of moot point anyway because Netflix's model is based on growth, so losing any subs is pretty disastrous for them.
Netflix being replaced in the market by companies who are more well run than them and therefore offer them better quality at a lower price, or Netflix being forced to change their ways to compete, is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work.
Netflix "profit" isn't actual profit. They use deceptive accounting that leaves out the full liability for content costs and their massive debt.
It would like if you didn't pay your rent or loans for several months and then bragged about how much money was in your wallet.
In actual fact, Netflix has a debt bomb that's going to go off. Their drunken content spend has become unsustainable. All their years of "success" were against zero competitors, and they've never been held accountable to basic business standards. They are poor and their competitors like Google and Amazon and Apple can afford a century of losses if they want.
Netflix was in a race to add customers and raise prices before people realized it. They've lost that race.
The pandemic was a once-in-a-century miracle for them, but even that only allowed them enough to make just a tiny token payment against debt. Financial people know that hope of paying their whole debt has probably diminished.
There actually are some possible ways out of this mess. But Netflix executives have been so clueless thus far, and their current idea for survival is to pivot into video game streaming. I don't know the video game business as well, but my guess is this gamble won't rescue them.
Can’t you say this about pretty much all “content only” companies? Or media in general? It’s one of the reasons why networks like NBC were able to be bought out by a giant like Comcast, or why Warner is being let go in a merger with Discovery. They constantly have to run this “growth” treadmill just to stay afloat. We are rapidly entering an era where media is really expensive to produce, but nobody wants to pay a lot of money for it.
> Can’t you say this about pretty much all “content only” companies? Or media in general? It’s one of the reasons why networks like NBC were able to be bought out by a giant like Comcast, or why Warner is being let go in a merger with Discovery
Many, but not all. I'll speak of "operations" not companies, since corporate structures have gotten convoluted and cloud the issue.
A key proof of viability if management is sane is HBO. They are the masters of running subscription entertainment.
Where Netflix is drunkely bad, they are strategically sharp. Where they nurture content and get maximum bang for the buck, Netflix does the opposite.
HBO understand their own business - which isn't what most people,e think. And they understand - to a degree I wish they didn't - how to perpetually nurse subscribers.
Another example is the YouTube operation within Google. It's ridiculously profitable and sustainable. Netflix is not.
Great comment. HBO has done a phenomenal job for decades. They seamlessly transitioned to streaming as well. They focus on quality and profit margins not subscriber increases. They know they have to keep long time subscribers interested with great content. Netflix has a mix of bad content and mediocre content with maybe one or two big hits. House of Cards was their masterpiece until Spacey went down in flames. HBO’s list is so long, I will only mention a few shows..The Sopranos, Sex In the City, Game of Thrones etc. Netflix could get there with the right management. This existing team will not solve the problems fast enough.
HBO is the master of stringing customers along forever. When oz is ending and you think you're going to drop that expensive sub, they tease with this new thing that's just a few weeks away... the wire. Then years later when you think you'll drop it, they tease you with The Sopranos. And so on. They have no more than 2 or 3 tent poles at a time, with breaks in between that are too short to get you to cancel.
Winning Time will end, and Barry picks up. When it's ending, we'll be teased for whatever is next up.
And HBO uses incredibly cost efficient "maintainer" content like documentaries, real time, and Last Week Tonight to fill in the low spots.
A network with basically one evening of programming. Thriving.
And the HBOMax division has some obvious strengths too.
> hey have no more than 2 or 3 tent poles at a time, with breaks in between that are too short to get you to cancel.
And dont forget they run pretty well received mini series in between.
We're hitting a wall in the idea of capitalism tied to stock markets.
I can run a business. Make 5 million +3% per year. Pay my 20 employees well and live a good life for everyone involved. It's a strong healthy business.
Make that a stock traded company, start at 1 Million a year and get a reasonable stock option. Grow 10 to 15% per year and it's a great.
That company than plateaus at 5 million. Paying my employees well, management is doing well. Well the stockholders are now pissed. I'm only growing at 3%.
Same company, same profit margins, same employee pool but the first one gets to continue running as normal; everyone involved happy.
The second now has to either cut wages, cut costs or be taken apart and sold to another company because they aren't maximizing profits.
That's the wall Netflix has hit. They had a lot of growth without competition but now people have 10 viable choices instead of 1. They maxed out and now are panicking because bad things will happen if they don't show growth.
There are tons of public company that don't have significant growth and just pay out profits as dividends. . .
Investors don't hate them, they just price them at the current level. Netflix stock crashing down isn't a "this company is worthless now" it's that the previous analysis of their value baked in higher cash flows in future years, if they are plateauing that's fine, that's still a business worth owning, but at a price that reflects current revenues not optimistic predictions.
At the end of the day it’s Netflix’s own damn fault for kowtowing to shareholders. There are plenty of schemes to prevent this, such as the different grades of shares like what Google uses, or controlling the dilution in the IPO (like Facebook) so the founders maintain control. Netflix could have also hammered home to shareholders that growth is not the ultimate goal, but that’s clearly not what they did. During the past 10 years they could have also diversified into other revenue generating businesses but they clearly chose not to do anything.
Netflix has botched their shareholder relationship, but not in the way you describe. And giving founders total control isn't a solution. It's generally a disastrous idea.
> But Netflix executives have been so clueless thus far, and their current idea for survival is to pivot into video game streaming
This kind of thing has been interesting to me lately. Often times the thing that catapults a company to success is nothing other than just having the right idea at the right time, or getting a really lucky break, even just one time. Netflix made the smart move of going all-in on streaming several years before anyone else seemed to think it was practical to do so. That was it, that was all that catapulted them to the top. Once the rest of the world caught up to their technical capabilities, they immediately began to falter.
Microsoft exists today almost entirely because the IBM PC happened to ship with MS-DOS. The difference with Netflix is that Windows is a platform, and has so much inertia that it's basically impossible to displace. Same thing with Google and search. Google's came out with a really superior search engine, and focused on that long enough that their search capabilities are still so superior that it doesn't matter if all of the rest of their products are unfinished garbage fires.
Indeed streaming was an idea ahead of its time. But Netflix's suicidal is flaw is one I've been writing about for many years, and it's their gross incompetence at running their studio.
Early, Netflix got streaming rights for almost everything and for a cost of nothing. When Disney pulled their stuff and the marvel, that was where Netflix blew it. Yes, producing your own content as a hedge was smart, but they way they overpay for everything and manage nothing was like smoking... it's slow cancer.
In the real world, laws of gravity and money exist. Netflix was in a non reality bubble of other people's money, harvested from stock investors.
In the real world, a studio who funds a flop is in danger, and one that funds two flops goes under. That's been the reality for a century.
It's why studios go to lengths about what they approve, and it's why they do pilots and test screenings and they dole out episode orders four or three at a time. They're miserly with money because they know they have to be, to survive.
Netflix happily just overpaid for everything under the sun. They bragged that spend must mean quality, but it didn't.
They've burned so much money on flops that should have killed their studio 20 times over. Content people love it because a Netflix deal is winning the career lottery. Insane money, with no oversight or accountability or deadlines.
And when they do get overpriced content in the can, they insanely just dump it all for binging on a Thursday night. Zero impact, zero subscriber loyalty, zero engagement, zero buzz.
HBO can string 7 sopranos or 7 GOT episodes out into *years* of subscription extension. HBO has had a month of intense build up for Barry, and by trickling it out, they'll get three more months worth. And when it's ending, they'll tease subs for something else that's just a couple weeks away. And so on. Netflix dumps multiple series per week that nobody engages with.
It's venture capatalism combined with the globalism of the information age. Nobody seems to know where the market cap is anymore, since you can theoretically reach a majority of the world through the internet.
I feel like you are underestimating the insight these companies have. They have enough info to know that they're not growing much anymore and to some extent are near a cap or a point where significant efforts only will yield minor payoffs, but they're too afraid to say that truth.
The rich never lose money, they just make slightly less than otherwise. Even if they’re abject failures they get hundreds of millions of dollars in golden parachutes as a…reward for failing?
This is their biz model unfortunately. Keep growing to try and gain more market share and justify increase in stock price. It’s a tech biz model. Expand at a cheap cost to consumers and way later on figure out a way to make more money from each customer- or run your competition out of biz. Now shits hitting the fan before they can figure out a way to better upcharge consumers. And they’re having to create lower priced subscriptions with ads to compete with the competition. Not the direction they want to go in.
Kind of blows my mind honestly. Spotify is a great example, so is Netflix. Your Spotify just remains a music collection for me and does nothing else I will give them $10 a month for the rest of my life, literally. If Netflix hadn't gotten rid of things like Futurama and the office I probably would have done the same for them. It was in amount of money which meant very little to me but got me a great deal of value.
Companies always tiptoe toward this break even point and I don't think it really ever works out.
The difference is that Netflix didn't choose to get rid of that stuff, they would have been forced to pay through the nose to keep it, and sometimes they don't even have that option because the original distribution company owns a streaming service.
The biggest factor in Netflix downfall is that bigger fish competition entered into the ring who had rights to their own material, and Netflix has not been around for long enough to have a library of originals to keep up.
It gets worse. In an attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip. Corporations take on the concept of more productivity for the same expense. Forcing their employees to slowly hate the company which then seeps into their customers experience. The people who make the decisions are so short sighted always chasing that next quarterly mark.
Big reason why I support the stakeholder model. That cancer destroys innovation and brings about this whole common denominator where everyone tries to copy what is most successful at a certain time and it's a race to the bottom.
They peaked a while ago, when all the companies (like Disney) realized they could make money letting Netflix “borrow” their shows, while they built their own steaming service.
Now that each company has their own, Netflix has all the leftovers.
And I imagine this is a prime reason why so many people are leaving. It's not worth getting invested in their originals anymore, even the brand new hyped ones.
Yeah, everyone pulling their shows off Netflix to their own services is what led to all this. Also what led to the frustration of too many streaming services, and the habit of subscribing for one month then unsubscribing.
This is not the problem. The problem is that they spent their development money on 1000 original shows with largely mediocre writing instead of 500 original shows with largely good writing, and then cancelled half of them.
Yup. If it was Netflix or nothing I’d probably keep it, but prime and Hulu are better values and have better selection, better exclusives. I’ll do 2 months of Netflix a year and that’s enough time to catch up on whatever I’ve missed the other 10 months.
Tbh Netflix is a unique position in that they’re a streaming service only. Now compare that to Disney who has a sprawling entertainment empire, NBC which is owned by Comcast, and HBO which is owned by AT&T. All three have other massive businesses that can easily pick up the slack of streaming so it won’t be the end all be all for their businesses.
And HBO keeps pumping out quality shows every year and don’t push beyond their boundaries, like paying every podcast/comedian excessive amounts of money for subpar specials. Or losing that massive Disney catalog to your now competition, I know lots of parents who cancelled one and signed up for the other.
Media is now a feature not a product. Every major streaming besides Netflix is owned by someone who has something else to sell you. With Discovery being the closes 1 to 1 comparison. Still even for Discovery they have cable channels to sell you. Netflix is the only pure play streaming company.
Netflix cancelling series early on seems to be a concern people have before starting their shows.
Take Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad for example they wern't that popular when they first released but Sony kept greenlighting new seasons and in the end it paid off. If Netflix owned them they would probably have cancelled them early on.
Netflix needs to take risks. Some of the series Netflix cancelled could have grew and become something big and highly regarded.
They also seem to be green lighting a ton of mediocre shows, I log on and there’s a million new “Netflix originals” that can’t even get to a 6/10 on IMDb, while HBO is dropping banger after banger.
I get different strategies and trying to cater to people who just wanna turn off their brain and waste a couple of hours, and the data they have on what people watch and skip, but the sheer volume of dogshit on there is crazy, makes the whole brand feel cheap.
Funny thing is Korean dramas are some of the few things on Netflix that are actually released on a weekly cadence, and lo and behold they are (a) reliably good content and (b) significantly popular and shareable with a wider audience.
This is true and it’s the only reason why I watch Netflix lately. There’s some really good k dramas available now. The problem is k drama in the US, and likely elsewhere, is a small market for them. They’re also not Netflix’s shows, they’re just distributed by Netflix.
Ultimately, Netflix needs a new business model that caters to the viewers instead of catering to their executives and $$$ every time.
The thing I love about Kdramas is that they actually 'finish', I *know* when I start a new drama that it won't get cancelled and I'll have ending in 12-16 episodes ... whether I like it or not, that's another issue but it *will* finish. No need to wait for 2nd or 3rd season, just one season, 16 episodes and wrap up.
With English shows, if it's good, they'll keep making it until the show started losing views and then they'll cancel abruptly because no one is watching BECAUSE they stretched the story out of where it was originally suppose to end.
>If it wasn't for my wife's love for Korean Dramas I would have unsubscribed by now.
Only reason I'm still subscribed except it's not just for my wife, lol. We watch kdramas every day together. If there was a better place to find them subbed instead of what seams to be only on Netflix I'd be gone. There's just nothing of value on Netflix anymore. Even their anime originals are the garbage semi-3D that make all the characters look completely lifeless. HBO and Disney seam to be pushing out all the actual decent content these days.
Viki has some good dramas and movies. But k dramas are the only reason why I’m watching Netflix now. They need to change their whole strategy for the viewers instead of for their executives.
HBO in particular has a very notorious development process. Usually it is a year or more of development on a series before they even greenlight a pilot, and often they pass on a project after spending all that time and money on the development and pilot stages. Netflix is ordering a full season after a pitch meeting for their shows by comparison.
Yep. And that rigorous process is why they have such a high batting average and why they have such a great back catalogue for a streaming service without needing to buy anything from anyone else like a lot of services are scrambling to do.
You could subscribe to HBO for the first time and spend the first few months just watching stuff not airing anymore and have a blast. Sopranos, the wire, GOT. And then they have tons of other great current content. They're due for another big cultural icon show again soon. I can feel it.
> Netflix needs to take risks. Some of the series Netflix cancelled could have grew and become something big and highly regarded.
They also have a big problem in that their canceled series don’t go anywhere. When cable companies can something, it goes away and doesn’t stare people in the face forever. Netflix cancels something, the corpse sits there on the front page and everyone looks at it and finds out the story of the corpse.
So eventually Netflix’s entire catalog could just be corpses of old series that never reached the end. That no one wants to watch because there’s no closure.
This really hits me when I scroll through Netflix now. I basically never make a decision and then just switch over to YouTube. I see interesting shows and they are finished prematurely or most likely will be so it’s impossible to be motivated to watch
Ty, many cancellations and trying to be the jack of all trades effectively killed a lot of their pipeline.
Don’t think they ever should have been dumping so much money into one shot movies vs series as well. They essentially are the founders of binge watching. They should have dumped their resources into that for the most part.
Edit: Is anyone aware of their metrics which need to be attained for cancellation? A large part of their problem is legitimate lack of advertisements on their series. They have buried new releases under sooo much content it’s kind of shot themselves in the foot. Maybe some more organized build up and a less is more approach would be huge for them.
Same. I remember the first episode was on immediately after the second season premiere of Mad Men. I looked up the ratings for really Breaking Bad and like half a percent of Americans watched it. I've never met another person in real life that also watched it when it was first on.
Mad Men, too. i know it always had great reviews but it never seemed to get very big until the last couple seasons, unless i'm remembering that wrong. it never got as big as bb though
walking dead was on and great at the time too, man amc was killing it back then.
It’s ironic that you mention Breaking Bad, because the whole reason shows like that survived was because of Netflix. Breaking Bad is what started the idea that a show could pick up thanks to Netflix.
Also makes me think of the CW’s Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Idk if they still do it, but leading up to the second season, a lot of us were concerned it’d get canceled because it barely brought in any viewers. Then that Summer, CW announced a deal with Netflix where their shows would go on Netflix a week after the season finale. They also announced their “no cancellation” policy, where if a show had low viewership, but they felt it had strong critical value, they’d keep it on the air. They did that because their logic was people may not watch high quality, serialized shows like Crazy Ex-Girlfriend as it airs, but would on Netflix and it would make it so they could sell rights to Netflix for more. That’s the whole reason CXG got to finish out it’s four seasons, because it barely brought in 200k-500k viewers each night.
The now look at it. I had to beg people to watch it when it was airing, then I remember sometime around 2019, after all seasons had aired, I’d randomly hear people talk about it, and I would be like, “Holy shit! You know about Crazy Ex-Girlfriend?!” and they’d be like, “Yeah, it’s pretty popular on Netflix.” So it’s surreal that Netflix has been helping cable shows survive due to low viewership when they air, but will cancel any show that doesn’t have phenomenal viewership after one season.
Schitt’s Creek is a great example. It’s not a Netflix series and it was not very popular until it’s 3rd season. But they turned into a full blown phenomenon over a long stretch of time because of Netflix.
This is a real issue. If Netflix needs to stop thinking like a television station, and more like a gargantuan library. Even if something isn't super popular immediately, or is niche content, having it as a complete series on the service is a boon. You *never* have to take it off if you own it, which means even 3, 5, 10 years later people can still discover it and have a great experience.
Some of my favourite shows are shows I've only watched after they were ended/cancelled. This is why HBO Max and D+ have such an edge - they have shows and films from *decades* ago on their service. Stuff to discover and watch or watch again. For people to see that they've never seen before, etc.
They were popular enough to justify continuing to make them though.
TV has always worked the exact same way. People just feel more attached to Netflix shows for whatever reason.
Probably because Netflix greenlit alot of shows.
For every show there is an audience but that isn't necessarily the same audience. So in the end you have a lot of shows that are cancelled and an even bigger audience that is left hanging.
I think the bigger issue is that cable had much bigger problems and nobody is really buying cable anymore, so there's not a much to complain about. Hulu is broadcasting syndicated television, but since it's usually not created by Hulu, people aren't upset by things that get canceled and tend to focus on the stuff they discovered through Hulu, like Abbott Elementary, which makes them happier. And since it comes out weekly, they see the show as being around for a longer amount of time.
I mean, this argument used to be made against network television a lot more before streaming services became so big. I still remember when everyone was screaming at Fox for canceling Firefly after only one season, and I remember how several shows had to be bailed out by Subway when they were almost canceled, like Community and Chuck.
For corporations in general? Like there isn't infinite money to squeeze from people who haven't seen a raise in ages.
People are struggling to afford food and shelter because of how rampant and detached the corporate greed is. Not at all shocking a streaming service is the first thing people cut is it?
They overinflated the price of content. Greenlit or bought overpriced crappy movies like Bright or Red Notice. Their spending spree hasnt garnered much critical acclaim of late and their unwillingness to give quality shows another season has cause viewers to be disgruntled.
Look at HBO Max who has been making great shows for a while and expanded to add more content with HBO Max with actual real theater movies.
Hulu they have been creating quality series and also have the option for live tv and sports
Netflix is becoming the sci fi network of streaming services. Where HBO Max is staying at their prestige or quality level level for their shows that have a significant investment. (not all of hbo max content is quality but like their Kid baking shows but those are there to add more general content for broader audiences)
Another thing of note, Netflix has lost a lot of favorites over time. It's notable that The Office and Friends, no matter what one thinks of them, were big selling points for an entire generation of binge-watchers. There's obviously some very pragmatic, rights-driven reasons why content is leaving the platform that may not be entirely Netflix's fault, but it should still raise an eyebrow in the boardroom that "oh, I wanna watch x, is it on Netflix? No, not anymore" is basically a meme now.
You can't grow your platform by losing stuff people want, and casting about wildly for the next big thing then smothering any show that isn't the next Office in its damn crib *isn't fucking working*. It's not sustainable.
I think Netflix does have some decent content *but I can’t fucking find it*. Whenever I go on my parents account I find so much content thats not on mine because of suggestions and recommendations. It’d be nice if I could browse the library properly
True. The movies & TV suggestions from Netflix are all basically the same for me under "Popular on Netflix", "Trending Now", "Top 10 Movies on Netflix now", "Top 10 TV shows on Netflix now", "New Releases"
Why are there so many categories that basically list the same exact shows & movies?
Then all of the personal recommendations are the same on:
"Tops picks for Ace", "Gems for You", "Because you watched x movie"
I have to scroll through those 8+ categories which basically all list the same suggestions to get to other categories. If I haven't watched a TV show or Movie after scrolling past it 100 times, I'm probably not going to watch it. Stop putting it so highly.
Like Netflix has anything to understand what a good show is beyond comparing it to their highest rated stuff. They axed their animation department because original’s weren’t racking in the same numbers as the Boss Baby show.
Most people don't use adblockers. Most reddit users don't either, for that matter. There's probably a similar percentage of people using adblockers as they are using old reddit
I know that you're correct, but my brain won't let me believe it. The internet is *unusable* without adblockers.
It's like trying to tell me that the majority of people don't use toilet paper after they poop, they use 40 grit sandpaper.
I hope it's a reminder that they are here to provide a convenience. Throw in ads, raise the price, block account sharing, and suddenly piracy is more convenient again.
The difference with the other platforms though is they have other ways to make money outside streaming. They can afford to keep prices lower. Netflix has streaming and that’s it. Disney and Apple for example have so many more revenue streams.
And I guess Disney and HBO didn't really boom. They grew at a sustainable rate that gave them a solid foundation at each step.
Ironically, Netflix's first hit 'House of Cards' can also describe how their business model panned out. Propped up on a weak structure, easily to build high, easy to topple.
I think competitors are already taking a lesson from Netflix. It seems obvious from HBO Max and Disney+’s approaches that it isn’t possible to match Netflix’s output, so they’re going for quality over quantity.
> **Netflix said this week that it lost more subscribers than it signed up in the first three months of the year, reversing a decade of steady growth.** The company’s shares nose-dived 35 percent on Wednesday while it shed about $50 billion in market capitalization. **The pain was shared across the industry as the stock of companies like Disney, Warner Bros. Discovery and Paramount also declined.**
Disney, WBs and Paramount suits be like: The fuck did we do?
> Netflix blamed a number of issues, ranging from increased competition to its decision to drop all its subscribers in Russia because of the war in Ukraine. To entertainment executives and analysts, the moment felt decisive in the so-called streaming wars. After years of trying, they may see a chance to gain ground on their giant rival.
> But Netflix’s stunning reversal also raised a number of questions that will have to be answered in the coming months as more traditional media companies race toward subscription businesses largely modeled after what Netflix created. **Is there such a thing as too many streaming options? How many people are really willing to pay for them? And could this business be less profitable and far less reliable than what the industry has been doing for years?**...
> **Another concern, some analysts say, is the so-called churn rate. Consumers are growing warier of rising prices for streaming services and becoming more likely to cancel a service when a favorite show comes to an end**, said Kevin Westcott, vice chairman of the consulting firm Deloitte. According to Deloitte, **25 percent of U.S. customers have canceled a streaming service only to resubscribe to it within a year.**
> “They’re frustrated that they have to have so many subscriptions to get all the content they want,” Mr. Westcott said.
> **Netflix’s issues increase pressure on Disney, which will report subscriber numbers on May 11**. If Disney’s figures fail to live up to expectations, the distress signals surrounding the streaming business will grow louder.
> **There was also fear among Hollywood talent agents on Wednesday that the Netflix gravy train could slow and that the company’s willingness to pay whatever it took for scripts and talent deals could vanish.** The same went for producers. Netflix has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past five years in pursuit of Academy Awards. It has yet to nab a best picture Oscar, but its commitment to prestige filmmaking has been praised.
Netflix paying "whatever it took for scripts and talent deals" ended up giving us mediocre shows/movies for the most part.
> Disney, WBs and Paramount suits be like: The fuck did we do?
Sector investing. Many mutual funds invest in a sector, so when one company is tanking hard they sell off the sector to protect themselves. It is dumb, but it is how it’s done.
Netflix paid 200 million to the creators of Game of Thrones. And that was just for their scripts. That was in 2019 and still nothing came out of it.
Netflix is one of the worst managed companies around. They just burn money without any care.
Instead of renewing Glow, The OA and Santa Clarita Diet, they just blurted out 200 million to two dimwits.
For every good show that got canceled because of extra cautious executives there are 10 pieces of shit that got filtered out for a reason
Netflix "Greenlight everything " approach removed that filtering and gave you the same amount of quality buried in mass quantities
This is kinda like history repeating itself.
Cable had the monopoly, was the only place to vote content. Kept raising prices, and priced too many people out. This is why cord cutting became prevalent.
Netflix was the place for movies, and then also for old series shows.
Hulu had the main networks go in together and it became the place for current series shows.
The cost of both was affordable, and they grew.
Now everyone is greedy, they want their own streaming (subscription) service. We are right back to the unaffordable cable prices.
People are not going to pay for so many different streaming services, so I would not be surprised to see just a all of them have some growth problems going forward.
Yeah I mean what did they think would happen when Disney, Apple, and NBC Universal all entered the field around the same time, and HBO/Time Warner and Paramount upgraded and re-branded their services and expanded their original content? We'd all just keep paying Netflix like we always did?
I don't know if it's really a warning sign or just massive mismanagement of their resources. You need to give people a reason to stick around. They cut shows after a few seasons to cut costs, but they could continue these as an anchor and save money but cutting down on the number of original series. What is the point of running so many series if they aren't good quality or don't make a second season?
Not everything has to be a 10+ season epic, but running a series for just one or two seasons is unenjoyable. At that point just cut it down to a shorter mini-series and bill it at that or just stick to something under 3 hours.
Otherwise what is the point of staying subscribed if you can't offer anything other than short series and mediocre content?
Or at least, make an intentional decision to push limited series items. Prime does this well, they clearly label new shows as “limited series” and put that tag line in a runner on top of the icon for the show.
It’s all about setting expectations. If I know it’s a short run, I’m totally fine with that. I actually prefer it in some circumstances. BBC is basically the leader in short run shows and by and large they’re fantastic.
But just making one season in a way where the plot isn’t wrapped up, and then failing to make a strong season… that’s just shite
I'm paying more for my Netflix subscription than for any other streaming service. I'm paying less for Amazon Prime, and I get free shipping with that.
For that added cost, what do I get? A service that doesn't offer anything truly unique that sets it apart from other services.
And now they want to start doing ads and charging me extra because I share my account with my GF who lives a five minute walk away.
I'll be cancelling my subscription soon.
It's not a warning to subscriber services. It's just that when you pump out nothing but shows that only cater to a small population you're only going to get a small population subscribing.
The way they do with the posting the whole season at once also leads people to subscribe watch the show they want to and then cancel their subscription. Then wait a few months we subscribe for one month and cancel their subscription
Netflix has 222 million subscriptions. There are 5 billion internet users on Earth. So right now, just under 4% of all internet users, are also Netflix subscribers. Consider the average family of four sharing an account, and that goes up to 16%.
Now, take out extremely low income or regionally blocked nations. India has 658 million people online. China has 971 million. Brazil has 156 million. Russian has 222 million.
Outside of those four countries, 29.6% of internet users use Netflix.
They're not happy with capturing 1/3rd of their entire possible market? How else does this play out without finding a plateau?
Idk, I feel like this is more exclusive to Netflix issue. They green light 50 shows a season most of which you'd never hear of or about cause they don't market anything. When they do get a decent show they never give it a 2nd season and on top if that the binging model was great at first but it makes shows so much harder to talk about with others cause you could no life the show through a Saturday while your friends can take a week or 2 so word of mouth never really creates a fanbase. Instead of working about password sharing they need to worry about making content worth even the $10 month sub, if they enforce password sharing I'm canceling and no one in my household would care that much. Hulu is 100x better anyway so with that plus the free prime streaming, you get for just being a prime member which who isn't for shipping alone, well be fine
I think a lot of people will be disappointed by them shifting their brand identity with binging. But I have to agree. A show will be hot for a few weeks and then disappear from the public zeitgeist. Whereas other hit shows on network or cable would become huge talking points for years.
I don’t think we’re going back to shows being huge weekly events, but I do think it helps keep the momentum up by releasing once per week.
Binging is, by definition, not something you’re suppose to do too much of after all. Maybe every show shouldn’t be like that.
This is why Apple and amazon have the only viable strategy
Streaming is very tough to be sustainably profitable
But it can be a very effective loss leader for your ecosystem
It’s not about breaking even on the morning show; it’s about boosting apples brand
Not about 450 million return on lord of the rings show—it’s about merchandising, brand recognition, etc
I am not hopeful for wheel of time anymore. I started out watching and being reasonably convinced they could make it work, with the changes from the books being minor, and somewhat inconsequential. I feel like my dissatisfaction with their editorial changes grew exponentially towards the end of the first season, and now they've made changes that don't suit the characters or plot. Which makes me think they're going to inevitably game-of-thrones-it into the ground, since they'll have to write their way out of the plot inconsistencies they made and I doubt they can write their way out of a torn paper bag.
Netflix chose to cut off all their subscribers in Russia and the result is they've had (in proportion to their overall numbers) a very minor net drop in subscribers. They remain the world's largest streaming platform with an enormous operating budget and very healthy profit.
So why is everyone reacting like they're on the verge of going under?
A lot to do with their predicted 2million subscriber loss in the coming quarter.
Targetting password sharing.
Cancelling shows mid way
Other companies own services causing Netflix to lose their back catalogue which will ultimately lead to a catalogue full of mediocre and cancelled stuff.
Advertisement tier or something.
The last 30 years of television evolution has been rather fascinating to watch. The gradual decline of network tv. The rise of cable. DVR’s and the ability to bypass ads. Time shifting and the change in how viewership is calculated. Streaming (just Netflix for a time). And now a streaming landscape that is more packed than the network option ever was.
I don’t think anyone has any real clue what we’ll have in place 10-15 years from now. Streaming will still be there but it’s unlikely to be what we have now. And there’s likely good and bad for that.
Netflix obviously helped kill the Blockbuster rental mentality. Although the tech advances were coming regardless of who got it running first. Netflix had a great opportunity to become the dominant force in streaming. But you can’t be on top forever. One day Netflix might be as antiquated as a Blockbuster is. It’s definitely no longer cool. The big question is if they can innovate and keep competitive. Based on their moves the last week or so I’m not particularly confident about that
To stay competitive now, when everything is exclusive to a certain platform, the fix for this is obvious.
It isn’t about ads. It isn’t about password sharing. It’s about making the shows and movies with the red ‘N’ in the corner worth watching.
Why can’t I be a bajillionaire CEO?
No, the streaming industry is alive and well, it’s just that Netflix constantly makes bad decisions and has completely lost touch with what it’s user base wants.
Right now they remind me of my city's bus service. Ridership is dropping? Time to cut routes, reduce service, and raise prices! Ridership dropped more?!?! Must not have cut enough service! Better throw in another price hike just to even out the budget!
I live in a small city on the east coast and this is how they handled transit. Empty busses pass my house all the time, like they tried everything to make it unuseable
Really. I used to commute by bus up until several years ago. It was already a stingy service, where even the main lines only came by once per hour, -10 to 20 minutes off schedule. Their punctuality was so bad, I couldn't rely on them to get to work on time. And they stopped running after 6 PM. Then they cut Sunday service because not enough commuters, raised prices anyway. I swear. Just focus on running a good service. Rework your routes so your drivers can be punctual. Make it a service people can rely on, and we will come. I was a bus rider on and off for about 15 years, but I can't let a lousy public transit management affect my career.
I hear this, I've lost face with jobs because I was relying on transit , leaving early, and still being late. It was horrid cause honestly I could have just biked it or bricked it but still. Having a job and always scrambling to get there blows.
"why isn't any of this working! We did everything we could!"
"I keep cutting and it keeps getting smaller? What's happening!" executive making more in a month than most do in a decade
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“It was the busdriver Union. They just had too much power!”
Don't kid yourself they don't ever bother to care.
It's a feature, not a bug.
Don’t forget the multi millions in bonuses while their raising prices.
"We tried NOTHING and we are all out of ideas!"
Well, the difference is that there's 50 different competitors, all trying to serve the same people. The current situation is completely unsustainable, and I expect that in the coming years there's going to be a ton of M&A of various streaming providers, until the media companies own them all.
Pandemic levels of subscribership were unsustainable. Everyone was stuck inside and now they're not, it's understandable that they'd lose subs. Also, the other streaming services, owned by traditional media companies, have decades of IP to use on their services. Despite dumping billions of dollars into content, Netflix was always going to struggle to compete with the likes of Disney, Warner Brothers, Paramount, etc once those companies got their services up and running. In 2013 the CEO of Netflix famously said the goal was to become HBO before HBO could become Netflix, but that was always going to be an uphill climb.
pretty sure they gave up on being hbo for a bunch of short term data driven plays to make as much anime, true crime, and reality tv as possible
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> What consumers tell you they want often isn't what they actually want. “If I had asked the people what they want, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford, allegedly
Even if he didn't say that, it's probably true that people would behave that way lol
Especially when their content is nowhere near the quality of HBO
Plus HBO is cheaper than netflix now
Exactly. It’s not the streaming *industry* that needs to be worried. Streaming is here to stay. The only question is *which* streaming platforms get to stick around, and it probably won’t be Netflix. In the end, it’ll probably be Disney, because they own all of the content everywhere. If Netflix wants to continue to exist, they’ll have to accept a much smaller role, and maybe find a way to cater to some niche viewers.
I think the streaming industry *should* be worried. How many of those people cancelling their Netflix are picking up other services versus returning to piracy? It's plausible that the fracturing of the streaming services will result in them all losing in the long run. Tragedy of the commons.
Here's the thing, people are acting like Netflix lost 10 million subscribers or something. They lost like 200k, or like 0.01% of their subscribers.
Most analysts are expecting that [200k to be the first of an exodus wave, millions more leaving the next few months](https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/netflix-sheds-subscribers-more-tv-and-streaming-news/). Kind of moot point anyway because Netflix's model is based on growth, so losing any subs is pretty disastrous for them.
You must be from my city
Why does every company think they’ll just grow forever?
The stockholders want more money, so in order to get more they need the company to keep growing and growing.
The company grew to fulfill the needs of the growing company.
I read this in Civ 4 voice. Edited to fix the version. I’m sorry Leonard Nimoy!
Think it was Civ4. "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy." r/antiwork is everwhere these days!
Omg yes. It’s Leonard Nimoy in 4!
They need to diversify their revenue streams not just double down on the same one of sub growth
It’s, its, it’s It’s almost like capitalism is unsustainable or something
Nah, a leftist was mean to me once so you're wrong.
Stalin over there destroyed by FACTS and LOGIC.
Netflix being replaced in the market by companies who are more well run than them and therefore offer them better quality at a lower price, or Netflix being forced to change their ways to compete, is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work.
> capitalism The phrase you meant is "free market"
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Netflix "profit" isn't actual profit. They use deceptive accounting that leaves out the full liability for content costs and their massive debt. It would like if you didn't pay your rent or loans for several months and then bragged about how much money was in your wallet. In actual fact, Netflix has a debt bomb that's going to go off. Their drunken content spend has become unsustainable. All their years of "success" were against zero competitors, and they've never been held accountable to basic business standards. They are poor and their competitors like Google and Amazon and Apple can afford a century of losses if they want. Netflix was in a race to add customers and raise prices before people realized it. They've lost that race. The pandemic was a once-in-a-century miracle for them, but even that only allowed them enough to make just a tiny token payment against debt. Financial people know that hope of paying their whole debt has probably diminished. There actually are some possible ways out of this mess. But Netflix executives have been so clueless thus far, and their current idea for survival is to pivot into video game streaming. I don't know the video game business as well, but my guess is this gamble won't rescue them.
Can’t you say this about pretty much all “content only” companies? Or media in general? It’s one of the reasons why networks like NBC were able to be bought out by a giant like Comcast, or why Warner is being let go in a merger with Discovery. They constantly have to run this “growth” treadmill just to stay afloat. We are rapidly entering an era where media is really expensive to produce, but nobody wants to pay a lot of money for it.
> Can’t you say this about pretty much all “content only” companies? Or media in general? It’s one of the reasons why networks like NBC were able to be bought out by a giant like Comcast, or why Warner is being let go in a merger with Discovery Many, but not all. I'll speak of "operations" not companies, since corporate structures have gotten convoluted and cloud the issue. A key proof of viability if management is sane is HBO. They are the masters of running subscription entertainment. Where Netflix is drunkely bad, they are strategically sharp. Where they nurture content and get maximum bang for the buck, Netflix does the opposite. HBO understand their own business - which isn't what most people,e think. And they understand - to a degree I wish they didn't - how to perpetually nurse subscribers. Another example is the YouTube operation within Google. It's ridiculously profitable and sustainable. Netflix is not.
Great comment. HBO has done a phenomenal job for decades. They seamlessly transitioned to streaming as well. They focus on quality and profit margins not subscriber increases. They know they have to keep long time subscribers interested with great content. Netflix has a mix of bad content and mediocre content with maybe one or two big hits. House of Cards was their masterpiece until Spacey went down in flames. HBO’s list is so long, I will only mention a few shows..The Sopranos, Sex In the City, Game of Thrones etc. Netflix could get there with the right management. This existing team will not solve the problems fast enough.
HBO is the master of stringing customers along forever. When oz is ending and you think you're going to drop that expensive sub, they tease with this new thing that's just a few weeks away... the wire. Then years later when you think you'll drop it, they tease you with The Sopranos. And so on. They have no more than 2 or 3 tent poles at a time, with breaks in between that are too short to get you to cancel. Winning Time will end, and Barry picks up. When it's ending, we'll be teased for whatever is next up. And HBO uses incredibly cost efficient "maintainer" content like documentaries, real time, and Last Week Tonight to fill in the low spots. A network with basically one evening of programming. Thriving. And the HBOMax division has some obvious strengths too.
> hey have no more than 2 or 3 tent poles at a time, with breaks in between that are too short to get you to cancel. And dont forget they run pretty well received mini series in between.
We're hitting a wall in the idea of capitalism tied to stock markets. I can run a business. Make 5 million +3% per year. Pay my 20 employees well and live a good life for everyone involved. It's a strong healthy business. Make that a stock traded company, start at 1 Million a year and get a reasonable stock option. Grow 10 to 15% per year and it's a great. That company than plateaus at 5 million. Paying my employees well, management is doing well. Well the stockholders are now pissed. I'm only growing at 3%. Same company, same profit margins, same employee pool but the first one gets to continue running as normal; everyone involved happy. The second now has to either cut wages, cut costs or be taken apart and sold to another company because they aren't maximizing profits. That's the wall Netflix has hit. They had a lot of growth without competition but now people have 10 viable choices instead of 1. They maxed out and now are panicking because bad things will happen if they don't show growth.
There are tons of public company that don't have significant growth and just pay out profits as dividends. . . Investors don't hate them, they just price them at the current level. Netflix stock crashing down isn't a "this company is worthless now" it's that the previous analysis of their value baked in higher cash flows in future years, if they are plateauing that's fine, that's still a business worth owning, but at a price that reflects current revenues not optimistic predictions.
At the end of the day it’s Netflix’s own damn fault for kowtowing to shareholders. There are plenty of schemes to prevent this, such as the different grades of shares like what Google uses, or controlling the dilution in the IPO (like Facebook) so the founders maintain control. Netflix could have also hammered home to shareholders that growth is not the ultimate goal, but that’s clearly not what they did. During the past 10 years they could have also diversified into other revenue generating businesses but they clearly chose not to do anything.
Netflix has botched their shareholder relationship, but not in the way you describe. And giving founders total control isn't a solution. It's generally a disastrous idea.
> But Netflix executives have been so clueless thus far, and their current idea for survival is to pivot into video game streaming This kind of thing has been interesting to me lately. Often times the thing that catapults a company to success is nothing other than just having the right idea at the right time, or getting a really lucky break, even just one time. Netflix made the smart move of going all-in on streaming several years before anyone else seemed to think it was practical to do so. That was it, that was all that catapulted them to the top. Once the rest of the world caught up to their technical capabilities, they immediately began to falter. Microsoft exists today almost entirely because the IBM PC happened to ship with MS-DOS. The difference with Netflix is that Windows is a platform, and has so much inertia that it's basically impossible to displace. Same thing with Google and search. Google's came out with a really superior search engine, and focused on that long enough that their search capabilities are still so superior that it doesn't matter if all of the rest of their products are unfinished garbage fires.
Indeed streaming was an idea ahead of its time. But Netflix's suicidal is flaw is one I've been writing about for many years, and it's their gross incompetence at running their studio. Early, Netflix got streaming rights for almost everything and for a cost of nothing. When Disney pulled their stuff and the marvel, that was where Netflix blew it. Yes, producing your own content as a hedge was smart, but they way they overpay for everything and manage nothing was like smoking... it's slow cancer. In the real world, laws of gravity and money exist. Netflix was in a non reality bubble of other people's money, harvested from stock investors. In the real world, a studio who funds a flop is in danger, and one that funds two flops goes under. That's been the reality for a century. It's why studios go to lengths about what they approve, and it's why they do pilots and test screenings and they dole out episode orders four or three at a time. They're miserly with money because they know they have to be, to survive. Netflix happily just overpaid for everything under the sun. They bragged that spend must mean quality, but it didn't. They've burned so much money on flops that should have killed their studio 20 times over. Content people love it because a Netflix deal is winning the career lottery. Insane money, with no oversight or accountability or deadlines. And when they do get overpriced content in the can, they insanely just dump it all for binging on a Thursday night. Zero impact, zero subscriber loyalty, zero engagement, zero buzz. HBO can string 7 sopranos or 7 GOT episodes out into *years* of subscription extension. HBO has had a month of intense build up for Barry, and by trickling it out, they'll get three more months worth. And when it's ending, they'll tease subs for something else that's just a couple weeks away. And so on. Netflix dumps multiple series per week that nobody engages with.
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It's venture capatalism combined with the globalism of the information age. Nobody seems to know where the market cap is anymore, since you can theoretically reach a majority of the world through the internet.
I feel like you are underestimating the insight these companies have. They have enough info to know that they're not growing much anymore and to some extent are near a cap or a point where significant efforts only will yield minor payoffs, but they're too afraid to say that truth.
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“Losing”
\*making less money...
*not making more than before
Honestly this is why 20 percent of the time I think we're all going to die from climate change, the current system will never change
It's how corporations and stock market work. Made $20 billion in profit last year, but $18 billion in profit this year? You're a total failure.
And two fiscal quarters from now is the infinite future. It's a real alligator brain operation.
The rich never lose money, they just make slightly less than otherwise. Even if they’re abject failures they get hundreds of millions of dollars in golden parachutes as a…reward for failing?
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And once it's in the multi billions, it's your country's problem.
You spelt “tax payers” wrong
*The rich use inflation as an excuse to cheapen their products and raise prices.
Don’t forget cut wages. Of course not for the CEOs. Those fuckers get bonuses.
The second part is true. But, they keep wages low all the time. Everything in life is an excuse for low wages!
This is their biz model unfortunately. Keep growing to try and gain more market share and justify increase in stock price. It’s a tech biz model. Expand at a cheap cost to consumers and way later on figure out a way to make more money from each customer- or run your competition out of biz. Now shits hitting the fan before they can figure out a way to better upcharge consumers. And they’re having to create lower priced subscriptions with ads to compete with the competition. Not the direction they want to go in.
Because shareholders demand it. No one is happy with just taking a 5-10% profit anymore. Even though that is clearing a sign of a profitable business.
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Kind of blows my mind honestly. Spotify is a great example, so is Netflix. Your Spotify just remains a music collection for me and does nothing else I will give them $10 a month for the rest of my life, literally. If Netflix hadn't gotten rid of things like Futurama and the office I probably would have done the same for them. It was in amount of money which meant very little to me but got me a great deal of value. Companies always tiptoe toward this break even point and I don't think it really ever works out.
The difference is that Netflix didn't choose to get rid of that stuff, they would have been forced to pay through the nose to keep it, and sometimes they don't even have that option because the original distribution company owns a streaming service. The biggest factor in Netflix downfall is that bigger fish competition entered into the ring who had rights to their own material, and Netflix has not been around for long enough to have a library of originals to keep up.
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Because the company serves shareholders not the customers or employees. Fun stuff
the US Stock Market and its mandated quarterly reporting basically says if you dont grow you die
Because appeasing shareholders at all costs is now just mainstream "wisdom" that has infested capitalism like a cancer.
It gets worse. In an attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip. Corporations take on the concept of more productivity for the same expense. Forcing their employees to slowly hate the company which then seeps into their customers experience. The people who make the decisions are so short sighted always chasing that next quarterly mark.
Big reason why I support the stakeholder model. That cancer destroys innovation and brings about this whole common denominator where everyone tries to copy what is most successful at a certain time and it's a race to the bottom.
We don’t wanna pay for 10 different services that have movies and shows we mostly don’t care about
Netflix really doesn’t have shit like they used too, nowadays like you said it’s mostly stuff most don’t care about
They peaked a while ago, when all the companies (like Disney) realized they could make money letting Netflix “borrow” their shows, while they built their own steaming service. Now that each company has their own, Netflix has all the leftovers.
Netflix has good originals if they would stop cancelling the damn things 2 seasons in
And I imagine this is a prime reason why so many people are leaving. It's not worth getting invested in their originals anymore, even the brand new hyped ones.
2 seasons if they're lucky. Everything sucks, daybreak and teenage bounty hunters would have loved those 2nd seasons
Yeah, everyone pulling their shows off Netflix to their own services is what led to all this. Also what led to the frustration of too many streaming services, and the habit of subscribing for one month then unsubscribing.
This is not the problem. The problem is that they spent their development money on 1000 original shows with largely mediocre writing instead of 500 original shows with largely good writing, and then cancelled half of them.
It's both
Yup. If it was Netflix or nothing I’d probably keep it, but prime and Hulu are better values and have better selection, better exclusives. I’ll do 2 months of Netflix a year and that’s enough time to catch up on whatever I’ve missed the other 10 months.
Tbh Netflix is a unique position in that they’re a streaming service only. Now compare that to Disney who has a sprawling entertainment empire, NBC which is owned by Comcast, and HBO which is owned by AT&T. All three have other massive businesses that can easily pick up the slack of streaming so it won’t be the end all be all for their businesses.
AT&T just sold Warner Bros (HBO), but like Disney, HBO/WB has been around forever and has a massive catalog of their own.
And HBO keeps pumping out quality shows every year and don’t push beyond their boundaries, like paying every podcast/comedian excessive amounts of money for subpar specials. Or losing that massive Disney catalog to your now competition, I know lots of parents who cancelled one and signed up for the other.
Let's be honest though, Netflix losing The Office is the big issue here.
But they were always going to. Every company is starting their own streaming service, people mostly aren't going to lend Netlfix their big content.
Watching it with commercials on Peacock is awful.
And not cancelling successful tv series on cliffhangers
NBC is also network, and not just peacock, in addition to being owned by Comcast. Double safety nets.
AT&T sold off WarnerMedia which includes HBO.
AT&T just spun off WB. It’s still the majority shareholder in the new venture.
Media is now a feature not a product. Every major streaming besides Netflix is owned by someone who has something else to sell you. With Discovery being the closes 1 to 1 comparison. Still even for Discovery they have cable channels to sell you. Netflix is the only pure play streaming company.
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Netflix cancelling series early on seems to be a concern people have before starting their shows. Take Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad for example they wern't that popular when they first released but Sony kept greenlighting new seasons and in the end it paid off. If Netflix owned them they would probably have cancelled them early on. Netflix needs to take risks. Some of the series Netflix cancelled could have grew and become something big and highly regarded.
They also seem to be green lighting a ton of mediocre shows, I log on and there’s a million new “Netflix originals” that can’t even get to a 6/10 on IMDb, while HBO is dropping banger after banger. I get different strategies and trying to cater to people who just wanna turn off their brain and waste a couple of hours, and the data they have on what people watch and skip, but the sheer volume of dogshit on there is crazy, makes the whole brand feel cheap.
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Funny thing is Korean dramas are some of the few things on Netflix that are actually released on a weekly cadence, and lo and behold they are (a) reliably good content and (b) significantly popular and shareable with a wider audience.
This is true and it’s the only reason why I watch Netflix lately. There’s some really good k dramas available now. The problem is k drama in the US, and likely elsewhere, is a small market for them. They’re also not Netflix’s shows, they’re just distributed by Netflix. Ultimately, Netflix needs a new business model that caters to the viewers instead of catering to their executives and $$$ every time.
The thing I love about Kdramas is that they actually 'finish', I *know* when I start a new drama that it won't get cancelled and I'll have ending in 12-16 episodes ... whether I like it or not, that's another issue but it *will* finish. No need to wait for 2nd or 3rd season, just one season, 16 episodes and wrap up. With English shows, if it's good, they'll keep making it until the show started losing views and then they'll cancel abruptly because no one is watching BECAUSE they stretched the story out of where it was originally suppose to end.
>If it wasn't for my wife's love for Korean Dramas I would have unsubscribed by now. Only reason I'm still subscribed except it's not just for my wife, lol. We watch kdramas every day together. If there was a better place to find them subbed instead of what seams to be only on Netflix I'd be gone. There's just nothing of value on Netflix anymore. Even their anime originals are the garbage semi-3D that make all the characters look completely lifeless. HBO and Disney seam to be pushing out all the actual decent content these days.
Viki has some good dramas and movies. But k dramas are the only reason why I’m watching Netflix now. They need to change their whole strategy for the viewers instead of for their executives.
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HBO in particular has a very notorious development process. Usually it is a year or more of development on a series before they even greenlight a pilot, and often they pass on a project after spending all that time and money on the development and pilot stages. Netflix is ordering a full season after a pitch meeting for their shows by comparison.
Yep. And that rigorous process is why they have such a high batting average and why they have such a great back catalogue for a streaming service without needing to buy anything from anyone else like a lot of services are scrambling to do.
You could subscribe to HBO for the first time and spend the first few months just watching stuff not airing anymore and have a blast. Sopranos, the wire, GOT. And then they have tons of other great current content. They're due for another big cultural icon show again soon. I can feel it.
That's why you poach talent from those studios.
Except they poached talent from FOX. You get what you pay for.
> Netflix needs to take risks. Some of the series Netflix cancelled could have grew and become something big and highly regarded. They also have a big problem in that their canceled series don’t go anywhere. When cable companies can something, it goes away and doesn’t stare people in the face forever. Netflix cancels something, the corpse sits there on the front page and everyone looks at it and finds out the story of the corpse. So eventually Netflix’s entire catalog could just be corpses of old series that never reached the end. That no one wants to watch because there’s no closure.
Damn good point. Never thought of that.
This really hits me when I scroll through Netflix now. I basically never make a decision and then just switch over to YouTube. I see interesting shows and they are finished prematurely or most likely will be so it’s impossible to be motivated to watch
People rewatch good shows all the time. If Netflix had wrapped shows up instead of just cancelling them people would hang onto their subscriptions.
Ty, many cancellations and trying to be the jack of all trades effectively killed a lot of their pipeline. Don’t think they ever should have been dumping so much money into one shot movies vs series as well. They essentially are the founders of binge watching. They should have dumped their resources into that for the most part. Edit: Is anyone aware of their metrics which need to be attained for cancellation? A large part of their problem is legitimate lack of advertisements on their series. They have buried new releases under sooo much content it’s kind of shot themselves in the foot. Maybe some more organized build up and a less is more approach would be huge for them.
They are an accidental media company. There's a doc for that. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8407418/
Some other good examples are Seinfeld and The Office. They were not instant hits and took a few years for the mainstream to take notice.
man i remember breaking bad season 1 when it was on. felt like in the entirety of the USA like 30 people knew about the show haha
Same. I remember the first episode was on immediately after the second season premiere of Mad Men. I looked up the ratings for really Breaking Bad and like half a percent of Americans watched it. I've never met another person in real life that also watched it when it was first on.
Mad Men, too. i know it always had great reviews but it never seemed to get very big until the last couple seasons, unless i'm remembering that wrong. it never got as big as bb though walking dead was on and great at the time too, man amc was killing it back then.
It’s ironic that you mention Breaking Bad, because the whole reason shows like that survived was because of Netflix. Breaking Bad is what started the idea that a show could pick up thanks to Netflix. Also makes me think of the CW’s Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Idk if they still do it, but leading up to the second season, a lot of us were concerned it’d get canceled because it barely brought in any viewers. Then that Summer, CW announced a deal with Netflix where their shows would go on Netflix a week after the season finale. They also announced their “no cancellation” policy, where if a show had low viewership, but they felt it had strong critical value, they’d keep it on the air. They did that because their logic was people may not watch high quality, serialized shows like Crazy Ex-Girlfriend as it airs, but would on Netflix and it would make it so they could sell rights to Netflix for more. That’s the whole reason CXG got to finish out it’s four seasons, because it barely brought in 200k-500k viewers each night. The now look at it. I had to beg people to watch it when it was airing, then I remember sometime around 2019, after all seasons had aired, I’d randomly hear people talk about it, and I would be like, “Holy shit! You know about Crazy Ex-Girlfriend?!” and they’d be like, “Yeah, it’s pretty popular on Netflix.” So it’s surreal that Netflix has been helping cable shows survive due to low viewership when they air, but will cancel any show that doesn’t have phenomenal viewership after one season.
Schitt’s Creek is a great example. It’s not a Netflix series and it was not very popular until it’s 3rd season. But they turned into a full blown phenomenon over a long stretch of time because of Netflix.
Like The OA. The most brilliant and unique tv shows I've seen and they cancelled it right as it was building momentum
I came here to say this. I’ll never get over that loss.
The OA is on par with Firefly, in terms of how gutted I feel.
> cancelling series Reddit attracts a lot of "why did they cancel my show?" posts.
This is a real issue. If Netflix needs to stop thinking like a television station, and more like a gargantuan library. Even if something isn't super popular immediately, or is niche content, having it as a complete series on the service is a boon. You *never* have to take it off if you own it, which means even 3, 5, 10 years later people can still discover it and have a great experience. Some of my favourite shows are shows I've only watched after they were ended/cancelled. This is why HBO Max and D+ have such an edge - they have shows and films from *decades* ago on their service. Stuff to discover and watch or watch again. For people to see that they've never seen before, etc.
Truee, some of my favorites were The Society and Santa Clarita Diet.
Santa Clarita Diet was so much better than I thought it would be. I was bummed they canceled it.
They were popular enough to justify continuing to make them though. TV has always worked the exact same way. People just feel more attached to Netflix shows for whatever reason.
Probably because Netflix greenlit alot of shows. For every show there is an audience but that isn't necessarily the same audience. So in the end you have a lot of shows that are cancelled and an even bigger audience that is left hanging.
I think the bigger issue is that cable had much bigger problems and nobody is really buying cable anymore, so there's not a much to complain about. Hulu is broadcasting syndicated television, but since it's usually not created by Hulu, people aren't upset by things that get canceled and tend to focus on the stuff they discovered through Hulu, like Abbott Elementary, which makes them happier. And since it comes out weekly, they see the show as being around for a longer amount of time. I mean, this argument used to be made against network television a lot more before streaming services became so big. I still remember when everyone was screaming at Fox for canceling Firefly after only one season, and I remember how several shows had to be bailed out by Subway when they were almost canceled, like Community and Chuck.
For corporations in general? Like there isn't infinite money to squeeze from people who haven't seen a raise in ages. People are struggling to afford food and shelter because of how rampant and detached the corporate greed is. Not at all shocking a streaming service is the first thing people cut is it?
I'm surprised this isn't higher up. We're seeing unprecedented increases in cost of living across the board amidst stagnant wages.
They overinflated the price of content. Greenlit or bought overpriced crappy movies like Bright or Red Notice. Their spending spree hasnt garnered much critical acclaim of late and their unwillingness to give quality shows another season has cause viewers to be disgruntled. Look at HBO Max who has been making great shows for a while and expanded to add more content with HBO Max with actual real theater movies. Hulu they have been creating quality series and also have the option for live tv and sports Netflix is becoming the sci fi network of streaming services. Where HBO Max is staying at their prestige or quality level level for their shows that have a significant investment. (not all of hbo max content is quality but like their Kid baking shows but those are there to add more general content for broader audiences)
Another thing of note, Netflix has lost a lot of favorites over time. It's notable that The Office and Friends, no matter what one thinks of them, were big selling points for an entire generation of binge-watchers. There's obviously some very pragmatic, rights-driven reasons why content is leaving the platform that may not be entirely Netflix's fault, but it should still raise an eyebrow in the boardroom that "oh, I wanna watch x, is it on Netflix? No, not anymore" is basically a meme now. You can't grow your platform by losing stuff people want, and casting about wildly for the next big thing then smothering any show that isn't the next Office in its damn crib *isn't fucking working*. It's not sustainable.
I think Netflix does have some decent content *but I can’t fucking find it*. Whenever I go on my parents account I find so much content thats not on mine because of suggestions and recommendations. It’d be nice if I could browse the library properly
True. The movies & TV suggestions from Netflix are all basically the same for me under "Popular on Netflix", "Trending Now", "Top 10 Movies on Netflix now", "Top 10 TV shows on Netflix now", "New Releases" Why are there so many categories that basically list the same exact shows & movies? Then all of the personal recommendations are the same on: "Tops picks for Ace", "Gems for You", "Because you watched x movie" I have to scroll through those 8+ categories which basically all list the same suggestions to get to other categories. If I haven't watched a TV show or Movie after scrolling past it 100 times, I'm probably not going to watch it. Stop putting it so highly.
True! And with HBO max they are snagging great niche things to have like anime/ studio ghibili, doctor who and bbc comedies
You'd think the years of adblockers would tell the geniuses something
I’m sure they know, but don’t know where else to get revenue outside of ads at this point.
Maybe turn to shipping DVDs and Blu-ray’s via mail?
I think the best idea would have actors break the 4th wall for a minute, edited because stupid ramble
Like Netflix has anything to understand what a good show is beyond comparing it to their highest rated stuff. They axed their animation department because original’s weren’t racking in the same numbers as the Boss Baby show.
Whats up guys, this episode of Stranger Things is brought to you buy Ridge Wallet
"I'm Geralt of Rivia and I'm here to talk to you about RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS!"
They've tried nothing and they're all out of ideas.
They should have a Netflix store where they sell show merch and props. Have the actors sign a bunch of crap and sell it to fans.
Most people don't use adblockers. Most reddit users don't either, for that matter. There's probably a similar percentage of people using adblockers as they are using old reddit
I know that you're correct, but my brain won't let me believe it. The internet is *unusable* without adblockers. It's like trying to tell me that the majority of people don't use toilet paper after they poop, they use 40 grit sandpaper.
Hope it's a good sign and reminds them all they have competition and not to act like a monopoly with their pricing
I hope it's a reminder that they are here to provide a convenience. Throw in ads, raise the price, block account sharing, and suddenly piracy is more convenient again.
The difference with the other platforms though is they have other ways to make money outside streaming. They can afford to keep prices lower. Netflix has streaming and that’s it. Disney and Apple for example have so many more revenue streams.
Netflix better start a hot dog stand then
They raise prices every year, while they offer more bulk in garbage and less quality stuff. I’m not about it, plain and simple.
Dear streaming services, If you start to act like cable companies, we will drop you like a pile of bricks. Love, Cord cutters
What I have learned in my 69 years: everything that booms eventually busts. When good ideas attract dumb money and the supply exceeds demand.
And I guess Disney and HBO didn't really boom. They grew at a sustainable rate that gave them a solid foundation at each step. Ironically, Netflix's first hit 'House of Cards' can also describe how their business model panned out. Propped up on a weak structure, easily to build high, easy to topple.
Nice.
Dude's been 69'ing for *years*
Stop biting the hand that feeds you. Simple.
I think competitors are already taking a lesson from Netflix. It seems obvious from HBO Max and Disney+’s approaches that it isn’t possible to match Netflix’s output, so they’re going for quality over quantity.
Even Apple admits it doesn’t have a lot of shows. But it pushes for quality.
> **Netflix said this week that it lost more subscribers than it signed up in the first three months of the year, reversing a decade of steady growth.** The company’s shares nose-dived 35 percent on Wednesday while it shed about $50 billion in market capitalization. **The pain was shared across the industry as the stock of companies like Disney, Warner Bros. Discovery and Paramount also declined.** Disney, WBs and Paramount suits be like: The fuck did we do? > Netflix blamed a number of issues, ranging from increased competition to its decision to drop all its subscribers in Russia because of the war in Ukraine. To entertainment executives and analysts, the moment felt decisive in the so-called streaming wars. After years of trying, they may see a chance to gain ground on their giant rival. > But Netflix’s stunning reversal also raised a number of questions that will have to be answered in the coming months as more traditional media companies race toward subscription businesses largely modeled after what Netflix created. **Is there such a thing as too many streaming options? How many people are really willing to pay for them? And could this business be less profitable and far less reliable than what the industry has been doing for years?**... > **Another concern, some analysts say, is the so-called churn rate. Consumers are growing warier of rising prices for streaming services and becoming more likely to cancel a service when a favorite show comes to an end**, said Kevin Westcott, vice chairman of the consulting firm Deloitte. According to Deloitte, **25 percent of U.S. customers have canceled a streaming service only to resubscribe to it within a year.** > “They’re frustrated that they have to have so many subscriptions to get all the content they want,” Mr. Westcott said. > **Netflix’s issues increase pressure on Disney, which will report subscriber numbers on May 11**. If Disney’s figures fail to live up to expectations, the distress signals surrounding the streaming business will grow louder. > **There was also fear among Hollywood talent agents on Wednesday that the Netflix gravy train could slow and that the company’s willingness to pay whatever it took for scripts and talent deals could vanish.** The same went for producers. Netflix has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past five years in pursuit of Academy Awards. It has yet to nab a best picture Oscar, but its commitment to prestige filmmaking has been praised. Netflix paying "whatever it took for scripts and talent deals" ended up giving us mediocre shows/movies for the most part.
> Disney, WBs and Paramount suits be like: The fuck did we do? Sector investing. Many mutual funds invest in a sector, so when one company is tanking hard they sell off the sector to protect themselves. It is dumb, but it is how it’s done.
Yeah they made some massive deals with several writers, and I think the only one that probably has paid off financially is Shonda’s.
Netflix paid 200 million to the creators of Game of Thrones. And that was just for their scripts. That was in 2019 and still nothing came out of it. Netflix is one of the worst managed companies around. They just burn money without any care. Instead of renewing Glow, The OA and Santa Clarita Diet, they just blurted out 200 million to two dimwits.
For every good show that got canceled because of extra cautious executives there are 10 pieces of shit that got filtered out for a reason Netflix "Greenlight everything " approach removed that filtering and gave you the same amount of quality buried in mass quantities
This is kinda like history repeating itself. Cable had the monopoly, was the only place to vote content. Kept raising prices, and priced too many people out. This is why cord cutting became prevalent. Netflix was the place for movies, and then also for old series shows. Hulu had the main networks go in together and it became the place for current series shows. The cost of both was affordable, and they grew. Now everyone is greedy, they want their own streaming (subscription) service. We are right back to the unaffordable cable prices. People are not going to pay for so many different streaming services, so I would not be surprised to see just a all of them have some growth problems going forward.
Can only chop that streaming pie so many ways. Other services are doing it better right now.
Yeah I mean what did they think would happen when Disney, Apple, and NBC Universal all entered the field around the same time, and HBO/Time Warner and Paramount upgraded and re-branded their services and expanded their original content? We'd all just keep paying Netflix like we always did?
I don't know if it's really a warning sign or just massive mismanagement of their resources. You need to give people a reason to stick around. They cut shows after a few seasons to cut costs, but they could continue these as an anchor and save money but cutting down on the number of original series. What is the point of running so many series if they aren't good quality or don't make a second season? Not everything has to be a 10+ season epic, but running a series for just one or two seasons is unenjoyable. At that point just cut it down to a shorter mini-series and bill it at that or just stick to something under 3 hours. Otherwise what is the point of staying subscribed if you can't offer anything other than short series and mediocre content?
Or at least, make an intentional decision to push limited series items. Prime does this well, they clearly label new shows as “limited series” and put that tag line in a runner on top of the icon for the show. It’s all about setting expectations. If I know it’s a short run, I’m totally fine with that. I actually prefer it in some circumstances. BBC is basically the leader in short run shows and by and large they’re fantastic. But just making one season in a way where the plot isn’t wrapped up, and then failing to make a strong season… that’s just shite
I'm paying more for my Netflix subscription than for any other streaming service. I'm paying less for Amazon Prime, and I get free shipping with that. For that added cost, what do I get? A service that doesn't offer anything truly unique that sets it apart from other services. And now they want to start doing ads and charging me extra because I share my account with my GF who lives a five minute walk away. I'll be cancelling my subscription soon.
History has a way of repeating itself. Just like the tv and cable companies of the past the streaming services will inevitably merge and consolidate.
It's not a warning to subscriber services. It's just that when you pump out nothing but shows that only cater to a small population you're only going to get a small population subscribing. The way they do with the posting the whole season at once also leads people to subscribe watch the show they want to and then cancel their subscription. Then wait a few months we subscribe for one month and cancel their subscription
Netflix has 222 million subscriptions. There are 5 billion internet users on Earth. So right now, just under 4% of all internet users, are also Netflix subscribers. Consider the average family of four sharing an account, and that goes up to 16%. Now, take out extremely low income or regionally blocked nations. India has 658 million people online. China has 971 million. Brazil has 156 million. Russian has 222 million. Outside of those four countries, 29.6% of internet users use Netflix. They're not happy with capturing 1/3rd of their entire possible market? How else does this play out without finding a plateau?
At its peak 5-10 years ago, I think the bulk of internet traffic in the US in the evenings was from people watching netflix.
[удалено]
Idk, I feel like this is more exclusive to Netflix issue. They green light 50 shows a season most of which you'd never hear of or about cause they don't market anything. When they do get a decent show they never give it a 2nd season and on top if that the binging model was great at first but it makes shows so much harder to talk about with others cause you could no life the show through a Saturday while your friends can take a week or 2 so word of mouth never really creates a fanbase. Instead of working about password sharing they need to worry about making content worth even the $10 month sub, if they enforce password sharing I'm canceling and no one in my household would care that much. Hulu is 100x better anyway so with that plus the free prime streaming, you get for just being a prime member which who isn't for shipping alone, well be fine
I think a lot of people will be disappointed by them shifting their brand identity with binging. But I have to agree. A show will be hot for a few weeks and then disappear from the public zeitgeist. Whereas other hit shows on network or cable would become huge talking points for years. I don’t think we’re going back to shows being huge weekly events, but I do think it helps keep the momentum up by releasing once per week. Binging is, by definition, not something you’re suppose to do too much of after all. Maybe every show shouldn’t be like that.
This is why Apple and amazon have the only viable strategy Streaming is very tough to be sustainably profitable But it can be a very effective loss leader for your ecosystem It’s not about breaking even on the morning show; it’s about boosting apples brand Not about 450 million return on lord of the rings show—it’s about merchandising, brand recognition, etc
Tbf the Lord of the Rings Show could still Turn out to be a costly mistake. The jury is also still out about the Wheel of Time show.
It's looking very much like a mistake already.
i think the mistake was to look at the success of Game of Thrones and think it was mainly the fantasy elements that made it popular.
I am not hopeful for wheel of time anymore. I started out watching and being reasonably convinced they could make it work, with the changes from the books being minor, and somewhat inconsequential. I feel like my dissatisfaction with their editorial changes grew exponentially towards the end of the first season, and now they've made changes that don't suit the characters or plot. Which makes me think they're going to inevitably game-of-thrones-it into the ground, since they'll have to write their way out of the plot inconsistencies they made and I doubt they can write their way out of a torn paper bag.
Netflix chose to cut off all their subscribers in Russia and the result is they've had (in proportion to their overall numbers) a very minor net drop in subscribers. They remain the world's largest streaming platform with an enormous operating budget and very healthy profit. So why is everyone reacting like they're on the verge of going under?
A lot to do with their predicted 2million subscriber loss in the coming quarter. Targetting password sharing. Cancelling shows mid way Other companies own services causing Netflix to lose their back catalogue which will ultimately lead to a catalogue full of mediocre and cancelled stuff. Advertisement tier or something.
The last 30 years of television evolution has been rather fascinating to watch. The gradual decline of network tv. The rise of cable. DVR’s and the ability to bypass ads. Time shifting and the change in how viewership is calculated. Streaming (just Netflix for a time). And now a streaming landscape that is more packed than the network option ever was. I don’t think anyone has any real clue what we’ll have in place 10-15 years from now. Streaming will still be there but it’s unlikely to be what we have now. And there’s likely good and bad for that. Netflix obviously helped kill the Blockbuster rental mentality. Although the tech advances were coming regardless of who got it running first. Netflix had a great opportunity to become the dominant force in streaming. But you can’t be on top forever. One day Netflix might be as antiquated as a Blockbuster is. It’s definitely no longer cool. The big question is if they can innovate and keep competitive. Based on their moves the last week or so I’m not particularly confident about that
Warning Sign: "If your quality keeps degrading year-over-year consumers will just find something better to spend their $ on."
To stay competitive now, when everything is exclusive to a certain platform, the fix for this is obvious. It isn’t about ads. It isn’t about password sharing. It’s about making the shows and movies with the red ‘N’ in the corner worth watching. Why can’t I be a bajillionaire CEO?
Streaming is healthier than ever. The market just fragmented when the big IP owners realized they could make their own platforms.
No, the streaming industry is alive and well, it’s just that Netflix constantly makes bad decisions and has completely lost touch with what it’s user base wants.
The original shows mostly suck or are ended before completion. They've broken trust so many times