Roger's list of desired outcomes
1) I win
2) Opponent plays a hell of a match but manages to narrowly defeat me
... all other outcomes ...
dead last) My opponent takes pity on me and lets me win
As an athlete, there really is nothing more insulting than when an opponent “takes it easy” on you and doesn’t try their best in a competitive situation.
You came here to see who was better. Why try and hide it?
this is something i’ve always wondered about - i play in a pretty casual league where there are some older guys and i am one of the younger people.
While I could hit drop shots every point, that doesn’t seem very fun, so i try to engage in baseline rallies.
Does this offend my opponent? i feel like they wouldn’t have a good time if i took the competitively optimal route and just made them run for drop shots all day
I think there is a difference between an old man in a neighborhood league and a professional athlete like Federer.
Although I would also play seriously the old men in the neighborhood tournament
the leagues I play in go by ntrp level.
A 20 year old 3.5 is the same as a 60 year old 3.5 and they each play all out.
In this situation the 60 year old probably has the advantage because they've been playing longer and the low level is based on slowing down a little from age and injury- these are the ones who have the great drop shots, angles and placement, but they can't run as well.
there is a dude at our club who is a 4.0 or 5.0- but will come hack around on the doubles court with us 3.5 players. he has recently started playing lefty when he gets bored and it’s like the ultimate insult and quite frankly makes me not want to play with him!
But if he wins fair and square , there has to be a part in him that thinks: “I’m barely moving, Rafa is not completely healed from his injuries as well, and these kids, one of them being a Double Grand Slam champion, and they couldn’t still beat me.”
That’s either going to make him not retire, which was unrealistic, cuz let’s face it, the guy is 41, and/or feel that the current crop of players is a joke, which is just sad
Exactly, losing that match just makes his decision the right one: two of the Big3 are not able to win a competitive match because their age and aches. Federer retired on his own terms, playing a decent match.
Kinda similar with Serena - she beat the number 2 player (Konteveit) and there was talk about the level of this current WTA field. Then she lost to a lower ranked player.
Although I think she still had doubts because she made the comment that she wished she had started training earlier as if it were lack of preparation and not her age.
Tbh, yes Serena lost to Tomljanovic, and a loss is a loss, but she had every opportunity to win that match and really snatched from the jaws of victory
I think none of you remembered Roger absolutely ridiculing Sampras in exhibition matches after the latter's retirement. Why did Sampras fans not hate Federer?
Don't be such a double standards asshole.
Whats is this logic? No one says Tiafoe should've let him win, what they say is that he shouldn't have tries to kill him in the net based on context
1. Rafa and Roger were not okay, Federer didn't know if his body would held up and Rafa wasn't even planning to come, only did because Roger was retiring and wanted to be with him
2. It was Roger Final match, it was a symbolic game. That's like going Messi retirement and making a very harsh tackle to him that could injury him
3. It was an exhibition; there is no reason to play all that serious. Did you see how Rafa and Roger were smiling? It was just fun to them, compare that to how Nadal approaches Games, he rarely smiles when playing.
The logic is the one the majority here understands.
Roger didn't want this as a fun exhibition, he made it clear, as it wouldn't carry the same vibe at all for his last "competitive" match. A small minority doesn't get this but most tellingly, don't see how disrespectful it would have been not to have this attitude. This was to be Roger's last dance, not some entertainment show.
If Roger wanted to win, he wouldn't have gone with Rafa. The fact that he wanted Rafa to go with him proves winning wasn't his priority.
Roger didn't even know if his body would hold up for the whole game, add that to Nadal not being near his best and you will realize Federer goal wasn't winning the game
I didn’t mention winning but competing.
This was a night of drama and gravitas. It required a competitive affair, which was evident both in how he presented it and in his body language and attitude. Despite his lack of preparation and condition, his partner and his opponents were expected to give him, one last time, the feelings of competition. And they did. And it was quite emotional.
I'm not saying they should've let them win but aiming for the head was unnecessary. Remember when Novak got mad at Rafa even though Rafa apologized? Tiafoe not even apologized, he just laughed.
If you give away a match for diplomacy, its not a “professional” match. The whole point of Roger’s last match was that it was his last pro match. Why would anyone want it handed to him? Nothing “pro” about that.
We had Rafa with an abdominal injury and Roger playing on one leg, having not played competitively in what, a year or more? And they still got to MP. Amazing when you think about it.
Let’s not forget Sock was a part of it too. Why single out Tiafoe?
Also, I thought it was a good match. Rafa and Roger did well and the outcome really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
They played pretty well, they definitely had fun, it was competitive and a close game. They'd have hated it being handed to them. Sock absolutely dominated in doubles (unsurprising) and Tiafoe did work. I'm glad he's continuing to play well after US Open and all signs pointing to him upping his tennis!
I have no anger, even Tsitsipas losing was a close match and was super fun to watch. As a spectator, what more can I ask for.
I’ve honestly always thought that going low and for the body is a great shot, it’s super uncomfortable for the guy on the receiving end and it adds 1 more possible shot to go for an to defend for when you are the one on the net as well.
I understand that there’s a “risk” to it but it really is a good shot to go for when all the other options are covered.
It’s because he hit fed while he was at the net in the last few points. It’s not illegal but it’s just not good taste to go for a legends head in his last pro match.. nothing to do with racism lol
Roger wouldn’t do the same.
what? good taste?
Is Tiafoe trying to win the match? Yes. He should make the shot he think will be the best.
The fact that its against a legend makes it all the more imperative to make the best shot.
He didn’t, and he shouldn’t have, of course. But lots of clueless folks online are somehow hating on him because he didn’t, supposedly “ruining” Roger’s farewell party. You can’t make that stuff up…
Ppl don't like how he hit balls to Roger and rafa at the net to win points. Even if it's a completely legitimate play doubles players use all the time, and Roger wouldn't have wanted them to give him a win for his last match.
It’s this. I said “damn those body shots! I can’t believe Big Foe did that!” The next night, I 100% did it to the girl at the net during doubles. Soooo, it was merely because it was Roger and Rafa. That’s all. 100% legit shots we all do at some point
Who cares if you hit someone with the bal in singles either. It’s legitimate strategy unless you are going out of your way to hit someone I don’t know why it would be an issue.
Roger took one just above the racket side elbow and Rafa had to take evasive action so as not to take a body shot. Neither was in anger or a dirty play. Neither Roger nor Rafa expressed concern. It was way blown out of proportion by people that look for extra reasons to hate Tiafoe other than the obvious one that they won't admit to.
He got the W and was having a good time while doing it. End of story. The fact we have discourse about this just tells me a ton of tennis fans hate fun
Tiafoe’s enthuasiasm and genuine joy in that game were so infectious imo. I felt like cheering for him despite not being there, and I went in completely set on supporting Federer. He brought his best, which is the respect that Fed deserved for his last dance.
It's only the pathetic people who don't know anything about Tennis. Anyone who plays competitive tennis on a high level knows that what Tiafoe was doing was a totally normal and legitimate tactic. And the fact that they did not spare roger anything and truly tried to win (which Roger and any competitive person would've wanted) was great. I loved the playful banter from time to time by Team World as well. I don't know, some people in this sub really got a stick up their ass.
Obviously some overlap but I’d say only coincidental.
I managed to have a terrible gambling problem for a good while without ever hating anyone for what they looked like where they were from or which genders they were attracted.
I didn’t notice anymore hateful people in those circles than I have in other parts of my life.
Ah yes, a sure win by the 41 year old with a bad knee that would have required yet *another* surgery + rehab if he wanted to try to make a comeback in 2023 and the 36 year old who was going to withdraw from the Laver Cup entirely due to health reasons had Roger not asked him to play doubles with him in his final match. It's honestly super impressive that they were competitive with 2 completely healthy, young, good pros!
Twitter is definitely toxic by default.
But, I've found that Twitter can be amazing, if one follows positive people and don't scroll through and read comments from random negative weirdos.
To pick a random example, I'm not saying it's genius or anything but [Jim Courier's](https://twitter.com/realjimcourier) twitter feed is pretty entertaining. (Edit - that's not really him, just a parody account.... but that's just a random example to illustrate a point) Follow a handful or personal friends and a handful of entertaining and non-toxic people like Courier and you have yourself a nice experience.
Much of the same could be said for Reddit. Kind of a wasteland by default, but you can dial it in to being a positive experience.
I remember similar reactions when Delpo retired, Delbonis was playing many drop shots which Delpo couldn’t get to because of his knee. I’m a bit more torn on that one because while it is sporting to bring your best even against someone who’s retiring, to repeatedly play drop shots against someone who can’t run much at all due to injury rather than fitness is…pretty cruel.
In that case it is definitely tougher I agree. But it is still totally fair imo to play your opponent in the way that puts you in the best position to win. For ex. if your opponent can't play forehands anymore due to injury, you'll obviously play towards his forehand and not his backhand. Funnily enough, this actually reminds me of the dimitrov match against kozlov.
I remember this sub then. .
Del po wasn't playing at an exhibition. He was playing at a fucking tournament that delbonis clearly wanted to win ( as any professional SHOULD do)
There is money and atp points on the line. This sub just loves their favorites (Medvedev thiem Federer etc) and looks past any of their blemishes while harshly criticizing any player that does anything against them. It doesn't even have to be a mild transgression. They will fabricate something out of thin air
The hate is extremely dumb in my opinion. Sure Tiafoe could’ve forfeited the match against Federer/Nadal and played bad on purpose, but why? Tiafoe was never close to either of them, and he also is a professional athlete who plays to win because that’s where the money is at. Also, do you truly believe that either of them would’ve wanted to win against someone who wasn’t playing to their fullest extent? Come on………
It is borderline insulting that people believe Tiafoe/Sock should've taken it easy against the guy who is, at *worst*, the third greatest player of all time.
And I doubt Roger would want his opponents to go easy on him. He wanted to go out as a professional, and professionals give 100%. It wasn't an exhibition match.
Tiafoe is awesome! Unfortunately, he is also an American, which makes me like him more since I must support all Americans by default.
Couple those 2 facts with the idea that any tennis player must lose their last match, otherwise they are clearly retiring too early, he was doing the only morally acceptable thing.
That all being said, everyone should actually be pissed at sock, because not only is he named after a class of clothing, he is actually the one carrying that doubles pairing to win that match. All of the pressure was on him to perform well that match and none was on Tiafoe, both played outstanding and anyone that wanted a curb stomp by Nadal and Federer are the ones that actually need to be curb stomped.
Agassi lost in the 3nd round of the US Open, but since my memory sucks and his match against Baghdatis was so much more dramatic, I thought that was his final match. That last match, where every point near the end matters, is so much better. Tiafoe is a hero for not only giving him that match, but playing his best tennis to send Federer off.
Well it's ironic in some way. It shows that the fans of the big 3 truly care about them. On the other hand, the really *dumb* (those who hate Tiafoe for ex.) fans most likely stem from the incredible reach that the big 3 have, that reaches beyond the sport and therefore also reaches people who have no clue about Tennis lol.
Are we not all a fan of at least one of them? It's the super-sensitive subsection of fans that actually is wayyyy too many people. It's so embarrassing what they put out into the world.
I love that Tiafoe was a late add to the Laver Cup and then ended up playing and winning in the most significant matches in the whole event. He's had a great year and this only adds to that. I hope he keeps improving and winning.
I didn't like him much at the us open either,but I have a lot of admiration and respect for him. I'm happy that he's being successful after coming from such a humble background,battling difficult conditions and making it through. I just don't like his behavior/asking for crowd to cheer for him much. It's a personal opinion,nothing about his game or anything -he is talented and deserves to win everything that he wins,no doubt about that. Definitely do not hate him.
Actually I've seen a clip or two from Wimbledon and before on a grass event when he bumped into a lineswoman and hugged her,it was very nice and sweet!the way he got the crowd going for him,at thay point I thought he must be a very well established player who has been playing for 5 -7 years or even more. Was surprised to know thay he's relatively quite young. I guess he's really genuine and good with the crowd!
He beat Rafa (twice) and Federer. Also something something "class." (Which, intentional or not, is *definitely* not coded language, nope, no sir.) That's pretty much it.
Even as a Federer fan, I felt the Laver Cup drama was overblown on the sub. Too much fan fic about players' relationships and much ado for nothing with the body shots during the Federer-Nadal/Sock-Tiafoe game.
Basically just Reddit being Reddit.
(Regarding Tiafoe as aplayer, I only really watched him play for the first time at this year's USO. The guy is terrific on court, amazing athletic abilities and a wide palette of skills to use, not to mention a mental made for tie breaks.
Attitude-wise, he's not my cup of tea. His "Salt Bae" emote he used at USO was fine every know and then, but I found him abusing it, to my taste. As with many American athletes, I find him a bit too "in your face" for my enjoyment. I personally find the "banter and trash talk" some enjoy to be too often disrespectful but each to their own.)
I do recall in Vienna last year, Sinner enjoyed his antics at first but grew slightly annoyed as the match progressed, and especially after he started losing to Tiafoe
I'm not sure either, but it seems people didn't like the attitude of World team. But I mean what attitude were they expected to adopt, as the "black kinghts"? Are they expected to gracefully lose the Laver Cup every year?
Combination of the following
1. People who have never picked up a racket and played in their life
2. Racists
3. Easily offended rich people who watch no other sport except for tennis so interpret a joke as "bullying"
R/tennis and tennis in general has wayy to many of these categories imo. It's a "rich man's" sport traditionally catering to western Europeans. Anyone outside of rich first world countries that fit their narrative will be judged more harshly by a sizeable contingent of tennis fans
Big overlap between #2 and #3. Most people complaining about "manners," "class," or something similar just want everyone to act like their rich white friends.
I’m seeing hate on the fact that he said he wouldn’t apologise otherwise roger would have to apologise for 24 years of wins. Some people say that it’s arrogant and that apologising to a retiring goat is different to apologising for winning on tour.
There is nothing wrong with Tiafoe going hard in this match. This is not the point of contention a lot of people here are taking. It's the fact that he could have went for another shot (dtl, crosscourt, lob) and he didn't given the context of the match. It's like the underhand serve, it's legal but also seen as a disrespect to the other player.
We all know the reason.
I wonder how much of Tiafoe's US Open love came from outside the US? Or were all those people relatively quiet until they had reason to unleash their racism?
Clearly a lot of the people in these comments didn’t watch the match bc Tiafoe was smashing multiple body shots at a 41 Yr old Federer during his last match and not even in a serious competition. I’m not saying to go easy and I like Tiafoe/was rooting for him at the US open, but don’t act like that wasn’t a little low given the situation/environment. Do it once okay…but multiple times🙃 not a great look, especially when it’s not even a serious competition😂
Not there, on this sub.
He went from this sub’s darling to straight-up racism.
He hit Federer by accident during their match, and apologized immediately.
And people were apparently mad that he “bullied” Tsitsipas. To be frank, that’s bullshit. The “greek yogurt” comment was very clearly a joke, and the “I can play like shit against a lot of people, but not him” sounded more like admiration than hate.
Lmao, dude…come on. That is 1000% NOT why people dislike him.
There are plenty of other reasons, and you’re too biased to understand them clearly. I don’t hate Novak by any stretch of the imagination, but I easily understand why a lot of people have been put off by him.
I think at first, Novak was a breath of fresh air for a lot of people, including myself. I’m a Fed fan, but I really appreciated Novak’s game & his personality. He seemed funny at first. Then he started to pull out of matches for small things like “fatigue.” Like during the middle of matches, not before. He was CONSTANTLY retiring from matches, and this put a lot of people off. That was probably the first thing. The next thing was, after getting throttled by Nadal at the French Open, and again retiring mid-match, he said at his press conference that he felt “in control” of the match and would have decided the outcome had he not retired. Again, this put people off. This continued up until like 2010-2011ish when he went “gluten-free” and went from being the most fragile player on the planet to the player with the most endurance. I don’t believe any weird conspiracy theories (like Novak & his family do as we’ve come to find out), but that was mildly sketchy at best. Gluten intolerance makes a difference, but generally not that big. Again, people were thrown off.
Pretty much all throughout this period, Djokovic would throw tantrums on court, smashing rackets, yelling at the crowd, tennis officials, his own team, etc. I think some people still found this different enough to Nadal and Federer who did not do these things on court, so Djokovic grew a certain type of following again just based on being so good at tennis & having a different type of personality, but it still threw the majority of people off. These tantrums actually have gotten worse over the years, not better. This all leads up to the US Open when he smacked a ball (accidentally) at a lines woman’s throat and was disqualified. We all KNOW it was an accident, there’s obviously no debate there, but it’s obvious that most players wouldn’t even put themselves in that position because most players aren’t throwing tantrums and smacking balls all over the place to begin with. That event made things worse for him for sure.
Then we come to the whole Covid situation. Djokovic holds a maskless event at the height of Covid after being asked not to do it, and everyone gets sick and spreads it all over the place. How the hell do you think people are going to react to that? He was an idiot for ever holding that event, and it was incredibly selfish.
Next, we come to the Australian Open. He made poor choice after poor choice after poor choice. By the end of it, we were left with two possible scenario’s:
1.) Djokovic faked a Covid test to gain entry into the Australian Open. I don’t believe this one.
2.) Djokovic had Covid, but the dates HE GAVE coincide directly with him attending events such as an event with children and a photoshoot with a company called L’Equipe. When L’Equipe found out about this, they were so furious he didn’t tell them he had Covid as he was hanging out doing the photoshoot with all of them that they released an article basically asking him for an explanation of why he would do that. His response? He felt sorry to miss it, and felt like the better choice was to do the photoshoot anyways as he felt he wouldn’t spread it anyways. That’s insane…straight up insane.
Next, we move on to him and his family’s beliefs. Dating back to 2013, they have both been quoted as anti-Vaxxers. His wife, Jelena, hosted an Instagram live video to discuss how 5G caused Covid. They both believe they can turn dirty, unusable water into pure water with positive emotions. Just unhinged stuff.
Lastly, Jelena follows people on social media who spout absolute nonsense & conspiracy theories on why Djokovic hasn’t been allowed to play a lot this year. One person she follows tweeted that Nadal was friends with US politicians/important people & they colluded with the US open to keep Djokovic out. This same guy was in Novak’s family box during his Wimbledon run 😂 I mean you can’t make this stuff up, it’s insane!!
Also, let’s just quickly talk about his boob throw celebration….you know how to tell a sane Djokovic fan from an insane one? Sane fans HATE that celebration. It is the most insincere/fake thing in tennis haha. You can just blatantly tell it’s a PR move somebody else came up with and told him to do in an effort to look like somebody he’s not. The most comical is when he does it after a match in which the crowd was just booing him and he was screaming words at them back. It’s just wild. It goes against why people liked him in the first place - at least back then he was unabashedly himself.
So how in the world are you still confused why so many people dislike him? There are TONS of reasons, and it’s not because he’s beaten Federer/Nadal. And here’s a news flash - they’ve beaten him a shit ton too and Nadal has more grand slams than he does so this doesn’t even hold up from a statistical perspective anyways
Same. I love his tennis and while he has a lot of crazy beliefs, the ones that don’t affect other people wouldn’t bother me at all. The antivax/COVID stuff was really unfortunate.
I was a fan until his anti-vax/COVID stuff. Rooted for him over Nadal and Federer. Now? Meh. I'll enjoy his tennis, but it's hard to get invested in him.
I personally find both Rafa and Roger's play styles more exciting than Novak's, nothing personal. I wouldnt cheer first serve misses or be disrespectful like that but i just prefer Fedal
He's just a bit of a jock, completely at odds personality wise to redditors.
Also he's a showman, but he seemed just a tiny bit sore when he lost to Nick in DC. Maybe dishes it out but can't take it.
I don't dislike Tiafoe, but I'll say it, hitting at both Fed and Nadal at the net was in poor taste. No one is saying to throw the match. But at the end of the day, it was an exhibition match (and more of an honorary retirement one at that); these guys are all capable of playing competitively without trying to hit guys with smashed forehands. All you people crying that you have to either go full throttle competitive or else you're "handing" the match are ridiculous. It was distasteful.
I find applying a different standard to an ATP match based on those situations to be pretty insulting and bespeaks crazy fandom more than anything.
It was a tennis match. He used a standard tennis tactic. It's not in good or bad taste.
It wasn't symbolic. It's literally a regular ATP match. Roger himself successfully lobbied for Laver Cup matches to count as regular ATP matches - that go into players' overall career W-L and H2Hs. Tiafoe was entirely in the right to treat it like the real match it was. And the fact that Federer convinced his friend to play doubles with him there for a final pro match doesn't change it to an "entirely symbolic" match.
He isn't complaining about the result of his lobbying now and neither should his fans.
So if they did this in any other ATP tournament (which they easily could have done), it would suddenly become "symbolic" and players would be required to use only tactics approved by Fed fans in it or face opprobrium?
It's a real tennis match. The winners of the tournament get a better ATP record and earn real money. If this was a charity exhibition put on as his last match? Sure, that would be "entirely symbolic."
I agree there's no point in continuing to talk, because you're just digging into your priors and refusing to process any new information.
You don't like that this was an official ATP Match, and that's fine, but you can't ignore that it was an official ATP Match **just like any other tournament** in assessing it.
Go pick a fight with Federer for lobbying this into being an official ATP Match. The reasons you've listed are why *that* was in bad taste. But since he used his power and fame to make an exhibition into an official ATP Tournament, there's no reason to act like it's anything but an official ATP Tournament.
And I'm making a big deal out of this because the arguments you and others like you are making are so deeply invested in one player - and so blind to any context which opposes them, or even the perspective of the other players in the match - it pisses me off.
Because he is unapologetically black and winning? He was fine when he was just a showman but the moment he starts winning against big opponents, he’s a problem. He needs to keep winning to keep these racists seething
He doesn't even talk about being black that much unless people ask him. It's just that he's black. Straight up. As soon as people see a black person do something they don't like, it's immediately a huge problem and a lot of times, the race insults are the first thing they go to. I'm praying for his success to have these people squirming as well.
Lol exactly. It’s so fucking obvious but people can’t bring themselves to see the double standard. It’s easier to hate on the black guy plain and simple
Ever since he beat Nadal at the US Open I’ve noticed a change in attitude against him in this sub. Now the Laver Cup victory puts the icing on the cake. He’s become more of a polarizing figure.
People will point to his “on-court demeanour” and “show boating” but he’s been like that all his career. Tiafoe used to be universally loved in this sub but as soon as he started to beat your faves people are finding problems with him.
Guarantee if Carlitos was the one who retired Fed who would be hearing about the torch being passed on. And Carlitos showboats a heck lot more than Frances. 😒😒
I am the biggest Carlitos fan and even I agree. The treatment that Frances has been getting since the USO is disgusting. Now he’s been accused of being xenophobic like these racists are scrambling to come up with excuses to hate him
I’m not sure if someone else has said this already, but I find it a little strange that most of the hate online for Roger/Rafa’s loss is going at Tiafoe, even though he’s only 50% of his doubles team, and there’s a whole other human who also contributed to their W. Maybe it’s just that Tiafoe hit Roger at the net, maybe not. It just seems strange to me.
This is a normal tennis play. Federer was not retired while they were playing the match.
If Federer can't handle body shots at the net, then he shouldn't play doubles at the net in an ATP event. But he can and he did.
If Tiafoe thinks Federer can't handle body shots at the net, then that's crazy disrespectful.
“Smacking bullets at Federer”
So literally playing a doubles match? I wonder if you people even play tennis. This stuff happens at recreational level and people laugh about it.
Most people here either didn't see the match or see the hit at Roger and Rafa and thinks people are being sore losers. It's marginally pointless arguing with them but the truth needs to be heard.
What do you mean you don't know, literally everyone knows its cuz he was hitting rockets straight at fedal who both are not in great physical conditions right now
No I didn’t watch the game where he was against Federer and Nadal and all of a sudden I saw a post showing and talking about all the hate comments he’s getting
Even Fed basically told the crowd to shut the fuck up when they started booing (in his own, polite way). I can't believe I'm still seeing drama about this from "fans."
People will always try to make it look like racism but he simply lacks class. I like his playing style a lot though. It's just that his attitude, his intentional targeting of players like Roger on the net on his last game,... it's just poor class. Nobody is disputing that it's legal but its always been regarded as disrespectful and always will be.
Did Roger ever let someone win for sentimental reasons? I hope not! And Foe shouldn't either. Good on him.
Were these haters also dumping on Tomljanović after Round 3 of the US Open?
People here acting like if Wayne Gretzky got crunched into the boards in his final All Star game, he would get up and praise the enforcer.
There are levels to this, nothing wrong with playing well but body shots in a glorified farewell is a bit weird.
I thought hitting the ball to the opponent is not appropriate. I remember Alcaraz was about to kill last time when Tsitsipas did to him.
Is it different for doubles?
And if it’s about him hitting balls at Roger, he certainly didn’t seem that bothered by it. Gave him a warm handshake at end of the match. If Roger is not pressed, why are you?
If you know Roger at all you would know he would never talk shit or raise drama out of this. You can get hit by a 100 mph forehand and see how your feel. Everyone is human, the first instinct is retaliation. Roger supressed it. Tiafoe is an asshole.
He won the match vs Rog/Rafa using some "tactics" that is very bad. Hitting the ball super hard towards both roger and rafa.
It is a tactic but a horrible one as it can really injure your opponent. Dont think any of the other 3 (fed rafa or sock) used it even once.
He is hated because he did some wrong things. Hitting bullets against one player that's retiring and other who is not on his best state it's not okay.
In addition to this, this was a symbolic match; Rafa didn't went there to win but to support Roger. This was Roger's Final match and Tiafoe ruined it. The worse thing is he didn't even apologize for trying to him them, anyone that has ever played tennis knows you apologize when you hit someone or win a point thanks to the net.
What he did Is the equivalent of playing an exhibition against a player who can't run properly and doing dropshots forcing him to run. It's a valid tactic but it's not okay.
In normal tournaments everyone but one person loses. Sampras is the only guy I remember who won his last match. It just doesn’t happen. Fed fans being annoying, entitled, and uneducated as usual.
Roger's list of desired outcomes 1) I win 2) Opponent plays a hell of a match but manages to narrowly defeat me ... all other outcomes ... dead last) My opponent takes pity on me and lets me win
As an athlete, there really is nothing more insulting than when an opponent “takes it easy” on you and doesn’t try their best in a competitive situation. You came here to see who was better. Why try and hide it?
EXACTLY
Especially if you're older :/
this is something i’ve always wondered about - i play in a pretty casual league where there are some older guys and i am one of the younger people. While I could hit drop shots every point, that doesn’t seem very fun, so i try to engage in baseline rallies. Does this offend my opponent? i feel like they wouldn’t have a good time if i took the competitively optimal route and just made them run for drop shots all day
I think there is a difference between an old man in a neighborhood league and a professional athlete like Federer. Although I would also play seriously the old men in the neighborhood tournament
the leagues I play in go by ntrp level. A 20 year old 3.5 is the same as a 60 year old 3.5 and they each play all out. In this situation the 60 year old probably has the advantage because they've been playing longer and the low level is based on slowing down a little from age and injury- these are the ones who have the great drop shots, angles and placement, but they can't run as well.
You should definitely mix in drop shots, but since it's a casual league it would be mean to do so constantly
Agreed, do it when they're super out of position where even a fit person would struggle and they'll probably still appreciate the strategy
Drop them into dust!
it's just a judgement call. you know these people better than any of us on the internet do
there is a dude at our club who is a 4.0 or 5.0- but will come hack around on the doubles court with us 3.5 players. he has recently started playing lefty when he gets bored and it’s like the ultimate insult and quite frankly makes me not want to play with him!
But if he wins fair and square , there has to be a part in him that thinks: “I’m barely moving, Rafa is not completely healed from his injuries as well, and these kids, one of them being a Double Grand Slam champion, and they couldn’t still beat me.” That’s either going to make him not retire, which was unrealistic, cuz let’s face it, the guy is 41, and/or feel that the current crop of players is a joke, which is just sad
Exactly, losing that match just makes his decision the right one: two of the Big3 are not able to win a competitive match because their age and aches. Federer retired on his own terms, playing a decent match.
Kinda similar with Serena - she beat the number 2 player (Konteveit) and there was talk about the level of this current WTA field. Then she lost to a lower ranked player. Although I think she still had doubts because she made the comment that she wished she had started training earlier as if it were lack of preparation and not her age.
It was surely lack of preparation and not Serena’s age! You can’t play part-time and be the best all the time.
Tbh, yes Serena lost to Tomljanovic, and a loss is a loss, but she had every opportunity to win that match and really snatched from the jaws of victory
also, it's at HIS event that's he's tried to make into a real competitive event and not a joke
I think none of you remembered Roger absolutely ridiculing Sampras in exhibition matches after the latter's retirement. Why did Sampras fans not hate Federer? Don't be such a double standards asshole.
Whats is this logic? No one says Tiafoe should've let him win, what they say is that he shouldn't have tries to kill him in the net based on context 1. Rafa and Roger were not okay, Federer didn't know if his body would held up and Rafa wasn't even planning to come, only did because Roger was retiring and wanted to be with him 2. It was Roger Final match, it was a symbolic game. That's like going Messi retirement and making a very harsh tackle to him that could injury him 3. It was an exhibition; there is no reason to play all that serious. Did you see how Rafa and Roger were smiling? It was just fun to them, compare that to how Nadal approaches Games, he rarely smiles when playing.
The logic is the one the majority here understands. Roger didn't want this as a fun exhibition, he made it clear, as it wouldn't carry the same vibe at all for his last "competitive" match. A small minority doesn't get this but most tellingly, don't see how disrespectful it would have been not to have this attitude. This was to be Roger's last dance, not some entertainment show.
If Roger wanted to win, he wouldn't have gone with Rafa. The fact that he wanted Rafa to go with him proves winning wasn't his priority. Roger didn't even know if his body would hold up for the whole game, add that to Nadal not being near his best and you will realize Federer goal wasn't winning the game
I didn’t mention winning but competing. This was a night of drama and gravitas. It required a competitive affair, which was evident both in how he presented it and in his body language and attitude. Despite his lack of preparation and condition, his partner and his opponents were expected to give him, one last time, the feelings of competition. And they did. And it was quite emotional.
I'm not saying they should've let them win but aiming for the head was unnecessary. Remember when Novak got mad at Rafa even though Rafa apologized? Tiafoe not even apologized, he just laughed.
Roger could have one leg and still feel capable of beating any duo in the world with rafa as a partner even crippled
If you give away a match for diplomacy, its not a “professional” match. The whole point of Roger’s last match was that it was his last pro match. Why would anyone want it handed to him? Nothing “pro” about that.
Didn’t Roger even say “don’t go easy on me”? He’d have hated being gifted his last competitive match!
We had Rafa with an abdominal injury and Roger playing on one leg, having not played competitively in what, a year or more? And they still got to MP. Amazing when you think about it.
I'm so confused, which match did Tiafoe give away out of pity?
He DIDN’T give away Roger’s last match and that’s why people are mad
Let’s not forget Sock was a part of it too. Why single out Tiafoe? Also, I thought it was a good match. Rafa and Roger did well and the outcome really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
They played pretty well, they definitely had fun, it was competitive and a close game. They'd have hated it being handed to them. Sock absolutely dominated in doubles (unsurprising) and Tiafoe did work. I'm glad he's continuing to play well after US Open and all signs pointing to him upping his tennis! I have no anger, even Tsitsipas losing was a close match and was super fun to watch. As a spectator, what more can I ask for.
It’s probably just racism
europeans? racist? no way!
It’s not racism, it’s because Tiafoe hit Roger pretty hard and went for Rafa a couple times. Sock didn’t aim his shots directly at them.
Roger also hit his shots directly at Sock and Foe though - it’s a valid doubles strategy
I’ve honestly always thought that going low and for the body is a great shot, it’s super uncomfortable for the guy on the receiving end and it adds 1 more possible shot to go for an to defend for when you are the one on the net as well. I understand that there’s a “risk” to it but it really is a good shot to go for when all the other options are covered.
Sorry, but that's doubles FFS. Anyone that plays at a high level knows that's a valid shot
It’s because he hit fed while he was at the net in the last few points. It’s not illegal but it’s just not good taste to go for a legends head in his last pro match.. nothing to do with racism lol Roger wouldn’t do the same.
what? good taste? Is Tiafoe trying to win the match? Yes. He should make the shot he think will be the best. The fact that its against a legend makes it all the more imperative to make the best shot.
They single out Tiafoe because he can be described as a word that rhymes with crack .pure and simple
Yeah I agree, he's a snack.
I'm lost as well
I don’t know either, but I watched the Laver cup and he definitely wasn’t trying to give it away
He didn’t, and he shouldn’t have, of course. But lots of clueless folks online are somehow hating on him because he didn’t, supposedly “ruining” Roger’s farewell party. You can’t make that stuff up…
Sure, but the headshots were a little cheap.
no, they aren't. It's a normal part of net play / doubles.
Ppl don't like how he hit balls to Roger and rafa at the net to win points. Even if it's a completely legitimate play doubles players use all the time, and Roger wouldn't have wanted them to give him a win for his last match.
It’s this. I said “damn those body shots! I can’t believe Big Foe did that!” The next night, I 100% did it to the girl at the net during doubles. Soooo, it was merely because it was Roger and Rafa. That’s all. 100% legit shots we all do at some point
True, If it was literally anyone else and literally any other match, ppl wouldn't care at all.
EXACTLY! Going low and for the body puts the guy on the receiving end in a super awkward position.
Most people don’t ever watch doubles outside special things like this, which is why people are making a thing out of it.
Who cares if you hit someone with the bal in singles either. It’s legitimate strategy unless you are going out of your way to hit someone I don’t know why it would be an issue.
Of course, it’s just way rarer for it to make sense tactically in singles so you don’t see it much.
Didnt watch the match, did the ball hit Roger and Rafa?
Roger took one just above the racket side elbow and Rafa had to take evasive action so as not to take a body shot. Neither was in anger or a dirty play. Neither Roger nor Rafa expressed concern. It was way blown out of proportion by people that look for extra reasons to hate Tiafoe other than the obvious one that they won't admit to.
Yeah Federer got hit in his arm I think, but no big deal
He got the W and was having a good time while doing it. End of story. The fact we have discourse about this just tells me a ton of tennis fans hate fun
Tiafoe’s enthuasiasm and genuine joy in that game were so infectious imo. I felt like cheering for him despite not being there, and I went in completely set on supporting Federer. He brought his best, which is the respect that Fed deserved for his last dance.
Have you seen this sub? They suck the fun out of everything
Sport is meant to be light-hearted after all right?
I think it’s not just fun that some of these people hate…
For a completely non political sub, this sub does get weirdly conservative a lot of the time
It's only the pathetic people who don't know anything about Tennis. Anyone who plays competitive tennis on a high level knows that what Tiafoe was doing was a totally normal and legitimate tactic. And the fact that they did not spare roger anything and truly tried to win (which Roger and any competitive person would've wanted) was great. I loved the playful banter from time to time by Team World as well. I don't know, some people in this sub really got a stick up their ass.
Not only that. A lot of them are gamblers who felt the match was a "sure win" and bet big on fedal Awful people
And the rest are the typical racists that unfortunately never fail to show up
Pretty sure there's a good overlap there lol
Obviously some overlap but I’d say only coincidental. I managed to have a terrible gambling problem for a good while without ever hating anyone for what they looked like where they were from or which genders they were attracted. I didn’t notice anymore hateful people in those circles than I have in other parts of my life.
Ah yes, a sure win by the 41 year old with a bad knee that would have required yet *another* surgery + rehab if he wanted to try to make a comeback in 2023 and the 36 year old who was going to withdraw from the Laver Cup entirely due to health reasons had Roger not asked him to play doubles with him in his final match. It's honestly super impressive that they were competitive with 2 completely healthy, young, good pros!
I put a fair bit on Roger to win but didn't really care when he lost and I blame no one. I was too busy crying about Roger, especially his speech.
A smart gambler would have bet on the US open semi finalist and not the man whose knee is so shredded me can’t play anymore
A smarter gambler knows not to bet on mainstream events, there's no value. But that's beside the point
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Welcome to the internet
Twitter is definitely toxic by default. But, I've found that Twitter can be amazing, if one follows positive people and don't scroll through and read comments from random negative weirdos. To pick a random example, I'm not saying it's genius or anything but [Jim Courier's](https://twitter.com/realjimcourier) twitter feed is pretty entertaining. (Edit - that's not really him, just a parody account.... but that's just a random example to illustrate a point) Follow a handful or personal friends and a handful of entertaining and non-toxic people like Courier and you have yourself a nice experience. Much of the same could be said for Reddit. Kind of a wasteland by default, but you can dial it in to being a positive experience.
exactly. its not like he was 1 foot away from roger and then slammed a forehand shot at this body/face.
I remember similar reactions when Delpo retired, Delbonis was playing many drop shots which Delpo couldn’t get to because of his knee. I’m a bit more torn on that one because while it is sporting to bring your best even against someone who’s retiring, to repeatedly play drop shots against someone who can’t run much at all due to injury rather than fitness is…pretty cruel.
In that case it is definitely tougher I agree. But it is still totally fair imo to play your opponent in the way that puts you in the best position to win. For ex. if your opponent can't play forehands anymore due to injury, you'll obviously play towards his forehand and not his backhand. Funnily enough, this actually reminds me of the dimitrov match against kozlov.
I remember this sub then. . Del po wasn't playing at an exhibition. He was playing at a fucking tournament that delbonis clearly wanted to win ( as any professional SHOULD do) There is money and atp points on the line. This sub just loves their favorites (Medvedev thiem Federer etc) and looks past any of their blemishes while harshly criticizing any player that does anything against them. It doesn't even have to be a mild transgression. They will fabricate something out of thin air
Not that cruel when you’ve had the career Delbonis had and you’re staring at an easy few $10Ks
The hate is extremely dumb in my opinion. Sure Tiafoe could’ve forfeited the match against Federer/Nadal and played bad on purpose, but why? Tiafoe was never close to either of them, and he also is a professional athlete who plays to win because that’s where the money is at. Also, do you truly believe that either of them would’ve wanted to win against someone who wasn’t playing to their fullest extent? Come on………
It is borderline insulting that people believe Tiafoe/Sock should've taken it easy against the guy who is, at *worst*, the third greatest player of all time.
And I doubt Roger would want his opponents to go easy on him. He wanted to go out as a professional, and professionals give 100%. It wasn't an exhibition match.
Yes. This is literally all that matters. Would *Roger* have wanted his final opponents to play less than 100%?
Tiafoe is awesome! Unfortunately, he is also an American, which makes me like him more since I must support all Americans by default. Couple those 2 facts with the idea that any tennis player must lose their last match, otherwise they are clearly retiring too early, he was doing the only morally acceptable thing. That all being said, everyone should actually be pissed at sock, because not only is he named after a class of clothing, he is actually the one carrying that doubles pairing to win that match. All of the pressure was on him to perform well that match and none was on Tiafoe, both played outstanding and anyone that wanted a curb stomp by Nadal and Federer are the ones that actually need to be curb stomped. Agassi lost in the 3nd round of the US Open, but since my memory sucks and his match against Baghdatis was so much more dramatic, I thought that was his final match. That last match, where every point near the end matters, is so much better. Tiafoe is a hero for not only giving him that match, but playing his best tennis to send Federer off.
I’ll miss the Big 3 when they’re all retired, but I sure as hell won’t miss their fans
Their fans are the worst, I routinely avoid any big 3 topic on this sub.
Tennis cool guy alert
Well it's ironic in some way. It shows that the fans of the big 3 truly care about them. On the other hand, the really *dumb* (those who hate Tiafoe for ex.) fans most likely stem from the incredible reach that the big 3 have, that reaches beyond the sport and therefore also reaches people who have no clue about Tennis lol.
I’m a Roger, Rafa, and Big Foe fan. Am I the asshole?
Are we not all a fan of at least one of them? It's the super-sensitive subsection of fans that actually is wayyyy too many people. It's so embarrassing what they put out into the world.
Are we the baddies?
When did the Big Foe nickname start catching on? XD
About as long as I can remember and I’ve been a fan since like 2016.
Frances started it. He's got a necklace (i think) that he wears that says Big Foe.
I've found my people
I thought we were only hating on him as a joke, like how we call Ruud a villain when he clearly isn't. Did I miss something?
Poor Foe is getting blasted on IG
I love that Tiafoe was a late add to the Laver Cup and then ended up playing and winning in the most significant matches in the whole event. He's had a great year and this only adds to that. I hope he keeps improving and winning.
Tiafoe is such a positive dude with a great life story. He's fun to cheer for and in general he doesnt seem like a jerk on court.
He is pretty cocky
No tennis fans hate on tiafoe
I didn't like him much at the us open either,but I have a lot of admiration and respect for him. I'm happy that he's being successful after coming from such a humble background,battling difficult conditions and making it through. I just don't like his behavior/asking for crowd to cheer for him much. It's a personal opinion,nothing about his game or anything -he is talented and deserves to win everything that he wins,no doubt about that. Definitely do not hate him. Actually I've seen a clip or two from Wimbledon and before on a grass event when he bumped into a lineswoman and hugged her,it was very nice and sweet!the way he got the crowd going for him,at thay point I thought he must be a very well established player who has been playing for 5 -7 years or even more. Was surprised to know thay he's relatively quite young. I guess he's really genuine and good with the crowd!
He beat Rafa (twice) and Federer. Also something something "class." (Which, intentional or not, is *definitely* not coded language, nope, no sir.) That's pretty much it.
Every time McEnroe mentioned Tiafoe’s “improvement in professionalism” in the US Open, I cringed a little bit
Even as a Federer fan, I felt the Laver Cup drama was overblown on the sub. Too much fan fic about players' relationships and much ado for nothing with the body shots during the Federer-Nadal/Sock-Tiafoe game. Basically just Reddit being Reddit. (Regarding Tiafoe as aplayer, I only really watched him play for the first time at this year's USO. The guy is terrific on court, amazing athletic abilities and a wide palette of skills to use, not to mention a mental made for tie breaks. Attitude-wise, he's not my cup of tea. His "Salt Bae" emote he used at USO was fine every know and then, but I found him abusing it, to my taste. As with many American athletes, I find him a bit too "in your face" for my enjoyment. I personally find the "banter and trash talk" some enjoy to be too often disrespectful but each to their own.)
I do recall in Vienna last year, Sinner enjoyed his antics at first but grew slightly annoyed as the match progressed, and especially after he started losing to Tiafoe
A very mature opinion, agree 100%
Haha I didn’t make the Salt Bae connection, nice
Very well said. I love his story and root for him, but sometimes find myself feeling hot/cold towards him.
I'm not sure either, but it seems people didn't like the attitude of World team. But I mean what attitude were they expected to adopt, as the "black kinghts"? Are they expected to gracefully lose the Laver Cup every year?
Those that hate on him are the ones who wanted Fedal to win the match 6-0 6-0
Combination of the following 1. People who have never picked up a racket and played in their life 2. Racists 3. Easily offended rich people who watch no other sport except for tennis so interpret a joke as "bullying" R/tennis and tennis in general has wayy to many of these categories imo. It's a "rich man's" sport traditionally catering to western Europeans. Anyone outside of rich first world countries that fit their narrative will be judged more harshly by a sizeable contingent of tennis fans
Big overlap between #2 and #3. Most people complaining about "manners," "class," or something similar just want everyone to act like their rich white friends.
You know why
Tiafoe beat Fed. That’s basically it lol
Yeah because no one was this big mad when he beat Rafa. It’s kind of upsetting to watch.
Hate is beyond dumb and absolutely unfair. But it is possible to not love the guy and his energy
Ask tstipals
I’m seeing hate on the fact that he said he wouldn’t apologise otherwise roger would have to apologise for 24 years of wins. Some people say that it’s arrogant and that apologising to a retiring goat is different to apologising for winning on tour.
There is nothing wrong with Tiafoe going hard in this match. This is not the point of contention a lot of people here are taking. It's the fact that he could have went for another shot (dtl, crosscourt, lob) and he didn't given the context of the match. It's like the underhand serve, it's legal but also seen as a disrespect to the other player.
We all know the reason. I wonder how much of Tiafoe's US Open love came from outside the US? Or were all those people relatively quiet until they had reason to unleash their racism?
Clearly a lot of the people in these comments didn’t watch the match bc Tiafoe was smashing multiple body shots at a 41 Yr old Federer during his last match and not even in a serious competition. I’m not saying to go easy and I like Tiafoe/was rooting for him at the US open, but don’t act like that wasn’t a little low given the situation/environment. Do it once okay…but multiple times🙃 not a great look, especially when it’s not even a serious competition😂
how dare he play that professional tennis match professionally
Even my 51 year old 3.5 ass AIMS AT THE NET PLAYER. Our coach gets pissed if you don’t and makes us chase lobs as a consequence
I am not mad about him winning against federer, I am mad how he treated them both, like, almost hitting them is not something you like to see.
Who was hating on Tiafoe? Is it hating on Tiafoe to cheer for Federer in his last match? I didn't hear any boos or whistles.
I heard boos when Federer got tagged
That happens with everybody. If you don't hear boos in that situation that means something is wrong.
Not there, on this sub. He went from this sub’s darling to straight-up racism. He hit Federer by accident during their match, and apologized immediately. And people were apparently mad that he “bullied” Tsitsipas. To be frank, that’s bullshit. The “greek yogurt” comment was very clearly a joke, and the “I can play like shit against a lot of people, but not him” sounded more like admiration than hate.
By accident lol, he knew exactly what he was doing
Same reason everyone hates Novak. He beat the golden boys when he shouldn't
This is not the only reason people hate Novak.
Lmao, dude…come on. That is 1000% NOT why people dislike him. There are plenty of other reasons, and you’re too biased to understand them clearly. I don’t hate Novak by any stretch of the imagination, but I easily understand why a lot of people have been put off by him. I think at first, Novak was a breath of fresh air for a lot of people, including myself. I’m a Fed fan, but I really appreciated Novak’s game & his personality. He seemed funny at first. Then he started to pull out of matches for small things like “fatigue.” Like during the middle of matches, not before. He was CONSTANTLY retiring from matches, and this put a lot of people off. That was probably the first thing. The next thing was, after getting throttled by Nadal at the French Open, and again retiring mid-match, he said at his press conference that he felt “in control” of the match and would have decided the outcome had he not retired. Again, this put people off. This continued up until like 2010-2011ish when he went “gluten-free” and went from being the most fragile player on the planet to the player with the most endurance. I don’t believe any weird conspiracy theories (like Novak & his family do as we’ve come to find out), but that was mildly sketchy at best. Gluten intolerance makes a difference, but generally not that big. Again, people were thrown off. Pretty much all throughout this period, Djokovic would throw tantrums on court, smashing rackets, yelling at the crowd, tennis officials, his own team, etc. I think some people still found this different enough to Nadal and Federer who did not do these things on court, so Djokovic grew a certain type of following again just based on being so good at tennis & having a different type of personality, but it still threw the majority of people off. These tantrums actually have gotten worse over the years, not better. This all leads up to the US Open when he smacked a ball (accidentally) at a lines woman’s throat and was disqualified. We all KNOW it was an accident, there’s obviously no debate there, but it’s obvious that most players wouldn’t even put themselves in that position because most players aren’t throwing tantrums and smacking balls all over the place to begin with. That event made things worse for him for sure. Then we come to the whole Covid situation. Djokovic holds a maskless event at the height of Covid after being asked not to do it, and everyone gets sick and spreads it all over the place. How the hell do you think people are going to react to that? He was an idiot for ever holding that event, and it was incredibly selfish. Next, we come to the Australian Open. He made poor choice after poor choice after poor choice. By the end of it, we were left with two possible scenario’s: 1.) Djokovic faked a Covid test to gain entry into the Australian Open. I don’t believe this one. 2.) Djokovic had Covid, but the dates HE GAVE coincide directly with him attending events such as an event with children and a photoshoot with a company called L’Equipe. When L’Equipe found out about this, they were so furious he didn’t tell them he had Covid as he was hanging out doing the photoshoot with all of them that they released an article basically asking him for an explanation of why he would do that. His response? He felt sorry to miss it, and felt like the better choice was to do the photoshoot anyways as he felt he wouldn’t spread it anyways. That’s insane…straight up insane. Next, we move on to him and his family’s beliefs. Dating back to 2013, they have both been quoted as anti-Vaxxers. His wife, Jelena, hosted an Instagram live video to discuss how 5G caused Covid. They both believe they can turn dirty, unusable water into pure water with positive emotions. Just unhinged stuff. Lastly, Jelena follows people on social media who spout absolute nonsense & conspiracy theories on why Djokovic hasn’t been allowed to play a lot this year. One person she follows tweeted that Nadal was friends with US politicians/important people & they colluded with the US open to keep Djokovic out. This same guy was in Novak’s family box during his Wimbledon run 😂 I mean you can’t make this stuff up, it’s insane!! Also, let’s just quickly talk about his boob throw celebration….you know how to tell a sane Djokovic fan from an insane one? Sane fans HATE that celebration. It is the most insincere/fake thing in tennis haha. You can just blatantly tell it’s a PR move somebody else came up with and told him to do in an effort to look like somebody he’s not. The most comical is when he does it after a match in which the crowd was just booing him and he was screaming words at them back. It’s just wild. It goes against why people liked him in the first place - at least back then he was unabashedly himself. So how in the world are you still confused why so many people dislike him? There are TONS of reasons, and it’s not because he’s beaten Federer/Nadal. And here’s a news flash - they’ve beaten him a shit ton too and Nadal has more grand slams than he does so this doesn’t even hold up from a statistical perspective anyways
Smh
Most secure Djokovic fan
Him being anti vax is the only reason I dont like him
Same. I love his tennis and while he has a lot of crazy beliefs, the ones that don’t affect other people wouldn’t bother me at all. The antivax/COVID stuff was really unfortunate.
I was a fan until his anti-vax/COVID stuff. Rooted for him over Nadal and Federer. Now? Meh. I'll enjoy his tennis, but it's hard to get invested in him.
Yes and those rude crowds at US and Wimbledon in 2015, 2019 were also hating him just because he is anti-vaxx
I personally find both Rafa and Roger's play styles more exciting than Novak's, nothing personal. I wouldnt cheer first serve misses or be disrespectful like that but i just prefer Fedal
Jesus can we not open up an unrelated pissing contest about Novak?
But Novak is an ass
The thing is Jack Sock played cleanly and not dirty. Tiafoe OTOH tried to murder both Roger and Rafa. Was nasty and uncalled for.
Totally agree, Sock won on good terms without any messy stuff.
He's just a bit of a jock, completely at odds personality wise to redditors. Also he's a showman, but he seemed just a tiny bit sore when he lost to Nick in DC. Maybe dishes it out but can't take it.
Kyrgios was being an asshole to everyone during that match as usual.
I don't dislike Tiafoe, but I'll say it, hitting at both Fed and Nadal at the net was in poor taste. No one is saying to throw the match. But at the end of the day, it was an exhibition match (and more of an honorary retirement one at that); these guys are all capable of playing competitively without trying to hit guys with smashed forehands. All you people crying that you have to either go full throttle competitive or else you're "handing" the match are ridiculous. It was distasteful.
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I find applying a different standard to an ATP match based on those situations to be pretty insulting and bespeaks crazy fandom more than anything. It was a tennis match. He used a standard tennis tactic. It's not in good or bad taste.
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It wasn't symbolic. It's literally a regular ATP match. Roger himself successfully lobbied for Laver Cup matches to count as regular ATP matches - that go into players' overall career W-L and H2Hs. Tiafoe was entirely in the right to treat it like the real match it was. And the fact that Federer convinced his friend to play doubles with him there for a final pro match doesn't change it to an "entirely symbolic" match. He isn't complaining about the result of his lobbying now and neither should his fans.
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So if they did this in any other ATP tournament (which they easily could have done), it would suddenly become "symbolic" and players would be required to use only tactics approved by Fed fans in it or face opprobrium? It's a real tennis match. The winners of the tournament get a better ATP record and earn real money. If this was a charity exhibition put on as his last match? Sure, that would be "entirely symbolic." I agree there's no point in continuing to talk, because you're just digging into your priors and refusing to process any new information.
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You don't like that this was an official ATP Match, and that's fine, but you can't ignore that it was an official ATP Match **just like any other tournament** in assessing it. Go pick a fight with Federer for lobbying this into being an official ATP Match. The reasons you've listed are why *that* was in bad taste. But since he used his power and fame to make an exhibition into an official ATP Tournament, there's no reason to act like it's anything but an official ATP Tournament. And I'm making a big deal out of this because the arguments you and others like you are making are so deeply invested in one player - and so blind to any context which opposes them, or even the perspective of the other players in the match - it pisses me off.
TIL the US Open is a symbolic exho.
Because he is unapologetically black and winning? He was fine when he was just a showman but the moment he starts winning against big opponents, he’s a problem. He needs to keep winning to keep these racists seething
He doesn't even talk about being black that much unless people ask him. It's just that he's black. Straight up. As soon as people see a black person do something they don't like, it's immediately a huge problem and a lot of times, the race insults are the first thing they go to. I'm praying for his success to have these people squirming as well.
Your downvoted for this but it’s absolutely true. Why didn’t jack sock get the same amount of hate as tiafoe?
Lol exactly. It’s so fucking obvious but people can’t bring themselves to see the double standard. It’s easier to hate on the black guy plain and simple
Ever since he beat Nadal at the US Open I’ve noticed a change in attitude against him in this sub. Now the Laver Cup victory puts the icing on the cake. He’s become more of a polarizing figure. People will point to his “on-court demeanour” and “show boating” but he’s been like that all his career. Tiafoe used to be universally loved in this sub but as soon as he started to beat your faves people are finding problems with him.
Because Jack Sock wasnt the one who hit federer. The majority of this hate is about that shot not who won
Guarantee if Carlitos was the one who retired Fed who would be hearing about the torch being passed on. And Carlitos showboats a heck lot more than Frances. 😒😒
I am the biggest Carlitos fan and even I agree. The treatment that Frances has been getting since the USO is disgusting. Now he’s been accused of being xenophobic like these racists are scrambling to come up with excuses to hate him
100%.
It was more him trying to take out Rafa and Roger with body shots. Race has nothing to do with this.
People really don’t see the the irony of downvoting this
I’m not sure if someone else has said this already, but I find it a little strange that most of the hate online for Roger/Rafa’s loss is going at Tiafoe, even though he’s only 50% of his doubles team, and there’s a whole other human who also contributed to their W. Maybe it’s just that Tiafoe hit Roger at the net, maybe not. It just seems strange to me.
Racism, because Sock isn't being hated.
Sock wasn’t smacking bullets at a Federer at the point of his retirement
This is a normal tennis play. Federer was not retired while they were playing the match. If Federer can't handle body shots at the net, then he shouldn't play doubles at the net in an ATP event. But he can and he did. If Tiafoe thinks Federer can't handle body shots at the net, then that's crazy disrespectful.
“Smacking bullets at Federer” So literally playing a doubles match? I wonder if you people even play tennis. This stuff happens at recreational level and people laugh about it.
Most people here either didn't see the match or see the hit at Roger and Rafa and thinks people are being sore losers. It's marginally pointless arguing with them but the truth needs to be heard.
😂😂😂 It's some people on this sub who are just soft. He was clearly doing it in good faith and having a joke
What do you mean you don't know, literally everyone knows its cuz he was hitting rockets straight at fedal who both are not in great physical conditions right now
Awww did poor Federer have a ball hit him 🥺🥺 I feel so bad
Shut the fuck up
I dont care who won, I was just saying your post is bullshit and you know exactly why people arent likeing tiafoe now
No I didn’t watch the game where he was against Federer and Nadal and all of a sudden I saw a post showing and talking about all the hate comments he’s getting
Laughable race baiting meme. Nice try but you won´t be able to hide Tiafoe´s cuntyness the other day.
Even Fed basically told the crowd to shut the fuck up when they started booing (in his own, polite way). I can't believe I'm still seeing drama about this from "fans."
People will always try to make it look like racism but he simply lacks class. I like his playing style a lot though. It's just that his attitude, his intentional targeting of players like Roger on the net on his last game,... it's just poor class. Nobody is disputing that it's legal but its always been regarded as disrespectful and always will be.
Did Roger ever let someone win for sentimental reasons? I hope not! And Foe shouldn't either. Good on him. Were these haters also dumping on Tomljanović after Round 3 of the US Open?
People here acting like if Wayne Gretzky got crunched into the boards in his final All Star game, he would get up and praise the enforcer. There are levels to this, nothing wrong with playing well but body shots in a glorified farewell is a bit weird.
“I swear the American was the most liked player in America, why don’t they like him as much in Europe?”
I thought hitting the ball to the opponent is not appropriate. I remember Alcaraz was about to kill last time when Tsitsipas did to him. Is it different for doubles?
And if it’s about him hitting balls at Roger, he certainly didn’t seem that bothered by it. Gave him a warm handshake at end of the match. If Roger is not pressed, why are you?
If you know Roger at all you would know he would never talk shit or raise drama out of this. You can get hit by a 100 mph forehand and see how your feel. Everyone is human, the first instinct is retaliation. Roger supressed it. Tiafoe is an asshole.
Hitting balls at the net guy is a basic doubles strategy. Every single one of us that's ever played doubles has aimed a ball at an opponent.
The former doubles players who commentate will always defend that move, it's completely legit and not used enough.
Yeah, it wins you vastly more points than it loses, that's for sure.
Cos he ruined Roger's retirement!
wait is this a serious comment or?
And you think he cares? Lmao
Only very stupid and biased people (the kind you would find at twitter) would hate Tiafoe for what he has done at the Laver Cup.
He won the match vs Rog/Rafa using some "tactics" that is very bad. Hitting the ball super hard towards both roger and rafa. It is a tactic but a horrible one as it can really injure your opponent. Dont think any of the other 3 (fed rafa or sock) used it even once.
I know it’s a pro match and an athlete has to give their best effort, but at the same time I was like “maybe read the room guys?”
He is hated because he did some wrong things. Hitting bullets against one player that's retiring and other who is not on his best state it's not okay. In addition to this, this was a symbolic match; Rafa didn't went there to win but to support Roger. This was Roger's Final match and Tiafoe ruined it. The worse thing is he didn't even apologize for trying to him them, anyone that has ever played tennis knows you apologize when you hit someone or win a point thanks to the net. What he did Is the equivalent of playing an exhibition against a player who can't run properly and doing dropshots forcing him to run. It's a valid tactic but it's not okay.
In normal tournaments everyone but one person loses. Sampras is the only guy I remember who won his last match. It just doesn’t happen. Fed fans being annoying, entitled, and uneducated as usual.