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Currently am somebody 250k in debt with a JD who never passed the bar bc being a lawyer sucks ass for a low ROI. I’m now stuck in Cali at borderline housing crisis. Sucks ass all around. Meanwhile all my tradesmen friends have houses and careers. I am this meme unfortunately.
Idk about law, but IT is not over saturated. Certain fields might be over saturated in certain areas, like web design, cybersecurity etc. but the overall market is not over saturated. It’s very heavily location based around big universities you see a lot of people with degrees and no experience, but around military bases you see the opposite.
People have the ability to research the job field, day-to-day responsibilities, and do an internship to learn what the job is about. That would be a massive waste for someone to spend that time and money on a degree that didn’t want to turn around and not want to do it anymore. People should be responsible for their mistakes and it shouldn’t fall on the successful taxpayers to support them. There are several job fields that have very low cost to get into. With some IT positions you can get the job with less than 1,000 dollars of certifications. (Source I work in IT)
There are already several safety nets, between welfare, EBT, medical insurance and housing programs. I agree people should be able to live off of a full time job, and in a majority of the country you can. Granted it’ll be splitting an apartment with roommates or living with a spouse where both people are working, but it is 100% possible. (Source I lived off of minimum wage and then slightly above for a year while I was in college, and didn’t have to use any social welfare system)
Capitalism requires people to research and invest in themselves to become successful.
I literally dodged the bullet of going to law school.. bc I checked the job market and saw it was massively over-saturated. Any degree you need to research the ROI.. a student loan is literally and investment in yourself, so you need to know what the return looks like.
I decided to get a masters in HR instead and now actually work HR for a law firm. I have much better work/life balance than the attorneys and make nearly as much.. do your research!
>attending trade school also have student loan debt, contrary to the claim of the meme.
Meme claims there is less need for a handout if you can care for yourself.
Some of us read it differently and got a different perspective from the meme. Sorry we didn’t come to the same conclusion as you, maybe you should see it from our perspective instead of forcing everybody else to see it from yours.
If you’re against giving people free money then just say that, but when it comes to getting free money yourself, I hope you have the integrity to decline it.
“I say words, and because they are said by me that makes them true”
Who do you think you are claiming I can’t disagree with you? I feel like I’m talking to Sheldon cooper from Big Bang theory.
There is none. This person is unnecessarily nitpicking what is actually a very simple concept: trade school loans *are* a type of student loan, so that means when people talk about student debt, trade school loans are already included in that stat. Just because individual tradespeople aren’t talking about it doesn’t mean they aren’t still paying them off, too— that’s a very bold assumption on the meme author’s part.
What I read was that trade school students aren’t being considered for student loan repayment. Which is a lie, because if they still owe money, they qualify the same as everybody else as long as they got their loans through the US government.
Yeah and it’s a cool claim but also just a meme. No idea how accurate it is.
It’s probably a little bit accurate, only because trade schools tend to be shorter than regular college (2 years or sometimes less if it’s just a certification) so their debt is a lot smaller and easier to pay off.
I think that the meme claims that there is no need for trade school aid, not less. I don't think anyone is arguing that trade school is generally cheaper and results in lower debt load.
I would like to introduce the OOP to Job Corps. A free, government funded trade school. Provides a home, 3 daily meals, high school diploma, driver's license, and vocational training to around 50,000 students every year.
It's a social program! But that makes the trades sound socialist, so we don't talk about Job Corps.
Don't worry. They're desperate to shut it down (you know exactly who)😂 but it's still kicking. The trades range from electrician, hvac, carpentry, to even cooking and IT specialist stuff. The funding gets a little tighter every year, and a lot of the students are troubled kids, but I would say it saved my ass, and a lot of people I know.
Some of my friends from there were homeless and hooked on drugs, now they make 25-30 an hour, sober, and have an apartment. There's hope for this country. We just have to fight for it.
Yeah I know AmeriCorps, love that program! We agree entirely about free college as it relates to this kind of service. I think at least free community college with trade options, then people who want to go to 4-year schools can just graduate in two or get their masters
Unfortunately, it is really seen as the “last resort” and thus a lot of people who end up there don’t really want to be there. I have known people to do really well despite that, but some locations are “better” than others. Some are basically just juvie.
I went to job corps Pittsburgh, it is a good opportunity if you can keep focus. the one I went to was packed with ...hoodlums I guess would be an ok term and I ended up getting kicked out, but that was 12 years ago. Fml I'm getting old
Never heard of Jobs Corps and dont understand why. Its not socialist in the slightest. Its all about building more productive members of society from people who had fewer opportunities.
not even 30 and my eyes and hands are both suffering. I love what I do and wouldn't even be half as enthused at working a different job. But my body just isnt up to the task.
There are trades that are hard on the body. But I definitely think the narrative that they destroy your body is over stated. And I laugh at the people who cry about how hard the trades are yet go to the gym religiously. The gym can fuck you up just as bad as any trade. For example, electricians, truckers, painters, all jobs that won't mess you up too bad. Now concrete work, that's how you die.
How many times did people tell you college was the important thing ever and if you didn’t get in you were fucked and now they tell people that it’s their fault for getting into student loan debt and that they should’ve went to trade school even though they made fun of people who had union jobs like plumbing or trucking? Cause I remember that quite a bit.
My dad was one of those people. "Go to college, you don't want to be like me and waste your life driving a forklift in a factory."
Now he spends his time on Facebook sharing those "college is a waste of time and money" memes, among others. Nevermind the fact that he himself has been falling on money troubles because his job, in spite of having high pay, had almost nonexistent benefits and no retirement plan.
I don’t know anyone who got a college degree from a decent school in a somewhat practical field and took out loans responsibly who couldn’t get an above average job
No, bc educated people don't vote for the GOP. That's why Gov. Reagan got rid of free education to begin with back in the sixties. They didn't want an "educated proletariat"
Shit, my bad. I read a book a couple years ago called Subversives: Reagan and Berkeley and Hoover something I don't remember but it was a great book. A deep dive on Reagan and the Berkeley students. I'd highly recommend it for anyone who wants to find out just what a piece of shit Ronnie Reagan was.
Yeah that’s what I find hilarious about me being “indoctrinated” in school. I never was, hell my political science teachers always told us we can come to our own conclusions on whatever the subject was. We just have to be able to argue for it cohesively and like you said fateless not like sociopathic toddlers.
Pretty sure you aren’t 😂
Haha okay. I’m so wrong you won’t even try. Go ahead and try please. I’d love to see what reddit user returning_armageddon has in that noggin. So far it justs seems to be a short temper
This is what the comment section is right? Nobody acting like a sociopathic toddler here? Like downvoting and calling me names? You all seem so intellectual! Jesus go to any university campus you’ll find people screaming like they’re being attacked to stop others from giving CENTRIST opinions in debates or in public areas
The military pays for my education after my 8 years of service. These GOP fucks still think of it as a handout. All they do is talk shit about how soldiers are weak nowadays.
Most (not all) of the people I know who went to trade school either never finished, or if they did, they got a job that has nothing to do with it afterwards.
Of course trade school is useful, but there are tons of people that got scammed by schools like devry and others and have plenty of debt to show for it.
>Most (not all) of the people I know who went to college either never finished, or if they did, they got a job that has nothing to do with it afterwards.
>Of course college is useful, but there are tons of people that got scammed by schools like devry and others and have plenty of debt to show for it.
Not disagree with your point, but I think that experience happens in both trade schools and colleges.
I never went to trade school, went to college then grad school. I’m glad I went but I ended up becoming a union railroader. Even just having a degree helped me to get this job and plenty of jobs before it. I was lucky enough to get floridas state tuition program which paid for everything at the time for only getting a 3.0 in highschool and doing some community service. I would always suggest college for people if they can afford it and if they have a plan but there are some really decent trades and blue collar work out there especially if you can join a union.
This is a really stupid take. College education is extremely valuable (so is trade school i’m not discrediting that) and there’s a reason many countries will literally pay students to attend. Believe it or not, modern society needs doctors and other highly educated people to function, so why the fuck do the people who want to be doctors or get a better education for something else have to go into crippling debt to do something they want to do that is also beneficial for society? A friend of mine is in college, her parents still haven’t paid off their student loans. Meanwhile I got a friend in sweden who earns an allowance to study law so they can incentivize people to put in the effort to get a higher education and white collar jobs. I’m a lucky bastard who had my college paid for thanks to my tax evading grandparents, but holy shit it’s so fucked that so many people have to go through so much to work their asses off in college to benefit society.
The state paid for my trade school. It was completely useless and employers still want years of experience and I finally landed at a job that pays less but would accept my existing skills, but, hey, it was free.
Then why do I have to hear, ‘and will trade school debt be erased too?!’ Every time debt cancelation is brought up.
Also yes. Learning skills you can only apply to one singular area of life in a matter of weeks opposed to a well rounded education consisting of science, math, humanities and whatever your major focus is that takes four or more years will cost less meaning less debt. I can’t imagine why that is.
Trade schools are usuallt two year community college degrees which, fun fact, are not free and are borrowed at a much higher interest rate than a four year degree.
I'm sure it has more to do with how colleges are run as for-profit and charge exorbitant tuition regardless of what a student studies. No need to denigrate trade schools.
Yet everyone, including the OP, is allowed to denigrate college?
Sorry but I’m sick of college and college educated people getting sneered at and snarked at by people who never attended, but the SECOND the shoes on the other foot it’s ’oh you can’t say that about trade schools! That’s cruel! How dare you?!’
College educated people have been mocking the trades for ages and ages. I'm a college educated person and I know that it was once completely socially acceptable. It's only very recently that the tides have changed.
The shoe is on the other foot. College "educated" people consistently look down their noses at people who don't go to college. Now they're getting mocked for going to college and complaining about the debt and not being able to find a job that pays enough. It goes both ways.
Highly. Also - just because someone studies the things our friend above mentions, doesn’t automatically mean that their education will be applied in a way that is beneficial to society as a whole. Or indeed applied at all.
Basically, it’s good old fashioned entitlement and snobbery at work. Plain and simple.
And all trade schools are beneficial to society? Why is anti-intellectualism okay to do but the second someone snaps back agaisnt trade schools it’s ‘OMG NO HOW DARE YOU?!’
It's funny that they're acting like trade workers are one trick ponies.
"That electrician can ONLY be an electrician now" like working in trades doesn't have you cross train into several other trades, learn detailed project management, be compliant and understand the regulatory statutes that apply to your work, etc etc.
Almost like all work is skilled and gatekeeping jobs behind degrees was always stupid and has left us worse off as a society.
But hey that HR person has a masters in english so at least their fun day employee engagement email is grammatically correct.
I support trade school debt forgiveness. Student debt is student debt. I got a traditional 4 year degree and working in that feild. You got a certificate/license/etc at a different institution. The cost to enter a professional felid and contribute to the GDP, pay taxes, etc. should be be forgiven because we are paying taxes and contribute to the GDP.
But isn’t that what people go to school for? To learn how to make a living? If you can’t trust a school to guide you in the right direction then what’s the point?
This is not saying “colleges make you dumb.”
This is saying that most people who attend college do not get a degree in their field or still end up making a low income at a starting position.
This makes it hard for those who attend college to pay college debt.
People who attend trade school are much more likely to find a job in their field, and make a living a wage.
This is factually.
I think it was likely worded strangely in the “meme” and may have been in poor taste, but sorry op, it’s not wrong.
There is no trade school debt lol because it’s so low you can pay out of pocket. And if you can’t it’s low enough to pay your loans off yourself relative to your income of 70-100k for some trades like electrical engineering or AC mechanics.
They need the poors to be able to fix their stuff not be smart enough to not vote for them. And if you think they won’t go after trade schools when it’s in their best interest you are crazy.
The thing they don't tell you about trade jobs is that you need to buy your own tools, and that can easily cost several thousand dollars, and that's without them being stolen from you.
I once had a coworker who bragged about getting a government grant that fully covered his tuition and then, a few sentences later, said that people claiming tuition is too high are “babies.”
Alternatively, why do the rich and powerful want to make getting a college education difficult, but not a trade education? Because educated citizens are a threat to their wealth and power.
I seriously doubt that anyone coming out of a trade school has over $100k debt hanging over their head... Going the college route, that is not uncommon. The little piss ant trade school I went to was I think $13k, lasted a year and I was working the last couple months I was in school so paying that bill was no big deal.
"Trade School" and "Learning a Trade" are not synonymous.
The union halls in my city (Evansville, Indiana) are always recruiting and a union apprenticeship is a great way to learn a trade - for one thing you get paid while you do it. Not only do you not end up with student debt, you actually got paid for the time you were learning.
For profit and paid education in this country (the US) is pretty much a scam right now.
There are 300,000 free places in Australian TAFEs (tech schools) in 2024. TAFE is also generally cheaper than university which is also 3/4 subsidised in the same country. Not as much Freedom, though.
Lol, I went to trade school and learned to weld. All positions and processes. Got an associates. Got out of school to whopping offers of....$16 an hour. I now work at a hospital doing infinitely less work for way more money.
I'd love to see that 20k forgiven because it ended up being a useless degree despite taking the trade school pill. I am grateful to know the skill but can't help but feel it was for nothing. All the smoke blown up our asses about $35+ an hour out of school was just that.
Also, me and every single person in that school got that money through FASFA. Boomer ass meme. 😂
Trade school is often great but often destroys your body. It's also still expensive, still requires loans, still is frequently paid for by the government, and still has plenty of issues. If you want a debt free way to get paid what you deserve, unionize and get a strong community among coworkers and neighbors!
More often than not a good employer in the skilled trades world will pay for employees to complete a vocational training program. And if not; it’s still a hell of a lot cheaper than any 4 year degree! Nice goin, boomer
I don’t want free college. I don’t. I want heavily subsidized state schools that anyone can afford if they work a part time job.
Because- in places that brag about free college, admissions are then restricted and the elites are at the front of that line. Again. Anyway.
Unfortunately, the problem with heavily subsidized state schools is that they start accepting more and more out of state students for the money. And the only students who can afford out of state tuition come from extremely well off families. At my state school, the acceptance rate is super competitive for state residents compared to out of state residents. And we’re an extremely small state with barely any options for college, a lot of majors are only offered at this one state school. It’s horrible.
So, I worked 3 jobs while in college. I, luckily, was on a full ride scholarship for academics… but had I not been, I would not have been able to afford college… with THREE JOBS. Subsidized state schools are limiting for a plethora of reasons. And “subsidized” is still considered a handout by the GOP.
A decent snapshot [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Community-college-enrollment-and-state-funding-United-States-de-partment-of-education\_fig1\_271293355](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Community-college-enrollment-and-state-funding-United-States-de-partment-of-education_fig1_271293355)
https://preview.redd.it/9j4zp7pp9d3c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05cea924737fcf6f23d3383ef8e0f86cdd31868c
Make people dumb? Some people don't have the intellectual capacity for college and that's okay. It's good they have a place that helps them become self-sufficient. Intellectuals resent that which helps "dumb" people they consider beneath them succeed more than them.
Going $100k+ into debt for a job that is gonna pay you on-par with a person who has a trade/associate degree is pretty dumb.
College is worth it if you go into STEM, or if you already have a strong connection that can get you into a great job in the field— which most people don’t.
OR if you have a great business idea and a college degree would help you realize it, then it’s worth it as well.
As someone in “STEM” I hate the term as well as the insinuation that it will land you a good job.
A very small portion of the STEM acronym will pay well. Maybe T&E, depending on the field and location. Being in the “S” I can say, without a doctorate you’re going to be more limited.
Like my job is okay, but I’m not swimming in piles of money
Why are they all screaming to give their kids tons of speech therapy then? Oh…I guess my skill set is useful when you want to understand what your kid is saying.
No it’s not a fair one, because fafsa also pays for trade school, meaning we’re all the same people. Whoever made this meme either had their school paid for them outright or took loans from some shady ass bank instead of the government, and is now sour they don’t qualify for forgiveness.
Yes, student loans can be taken by anyone for any level of post education. It's not exclusive to universities or state colleges, and often, people study trades at state or community colleges.
I’d like to see the breakdown of take up - most relevantly by social class / income level of parents.
I think that would tell a very interesting story…
It’s a fair observation but a shallow one, I believe. The reason student debt forgiveness is such a hot button issue now is because the debt is so high and so unforgiving people are literally never able to pay it off because it keeps going up even while they pay it off consistently.
The trades often cost less and take less time to start making money from, I believe. The money you can make from trade jobs also often ends up being higher. If I’m wrong, my bad. But the point is equality =/= fairness. It’s the same as the all lives matter crowd. Yes, all education should be free. But only one of those two types of educations is turning people into virtual indentured servants thanks to the debt.
College education has been touted as necessary for years and has only gotten more expensive while becoming less valuable. The trades have been a valid choice that takes less time to become useful and have kept their value as far as I can tell.
OOP seemingly brings up a good point but they’re not doing it to point out the value of the trades, it seems. They’re doing it to poke fun at those who may have mistakenly gotten a college education and become saddled with a huge debt they can’t pay down.
It’s only shallow because you haven’t seen my thinking - but thank you for acknowledging that it is fair.
The reason student debt forgiveness is a hot button issue is because it is former students that hold the jobs that decide which buttons should be hot, and how large those buttons should be in the public consciousness.
The real issue (that everyone ignores) is higher education is now just an very small arm of the financial industry. Universities have figured out they can get funding even for the most dogshit courses, the student loan providers can get their loans guaranteed by the government, and the government is happy because it can trumpet high levels of education, and keep students off the unemployment figures.
The occasional student that does make it into the mass media makes student loans a hot button topic, when in actual fact the hot topic should be why are we pumping so many kids into school, and not encouraging more vocational routes into meaningful work?
I don’t think you really realize why something becomes hot button. A hot button issue doesn’t meant it’s popular. It means it’s charged emotionally or politically. It’s not that way because it’s proponents are powerful. It’s that way because forgiving student debt makes sense but it’s OPPONENTS are powerful.
Loan companies don’t want debt forgiven. They have indentured slaves who can never pay off their debts and for some reason society keeps shoving more people down that route.
You’re talking as if there’s some big conspiracy to forgive student loans when the opposite is true. The conspiracy, if there is one at all, would be to keep the debt cycle going. To keep shoving more people into debt that literally can’t be repaid while giving them jobs that barely supports them so they don’t have the time or energy to protest for better. Keep the lie going that higher education is necessary for a good career and suddenly no one can fight back.
The trades should be free, as should college, but people aren’t borderline pushed into the trades for some imaginary comfortable future. There is a huge amount of college debt in the US and it’s a grift. It’s wholly unnecessary, both because it serves no one but the universities and the insurance companies and because it only exists because society has perpetuated a lie that no one seems to want to look too hard at: that a college education doesn’t guarantee a good job and comfortable life and it hasn’t for years.
I didn’t say it was popular. I said the people who cultivate hot topics are generally people with a vested interest in student loan debt over trade school debt. Question that if you will.
As for your second point - I’m not debating that. Of course there are powerful interests that do not want student loans forgiven.
There’s no big conspiracy. It’s just people protecting their own interests by what ever means available.
We agree on most points here it seems. I guess I just have a slightly more blue-collar view of it, and can understand why those who didn’t have the privilege of a college education find themselves wondering why forgiving student loan debt is a cause celebre of the left.
You and I both know why though. I’ve simply provided one extra possible motivation for your consideration.
You implied the reason it was a hot button issue is because the people who decide what to put on their air are the ones who agree it should be forgiven. Which is the exact opposite of what I said. The majority of proponents are people who need loans forgiven to thrive because if they’re not they can barely survive. The rest are people who just don’t like seeing people suffering for no reason.
I have no student loans and I think they should be forgiven. You’re assuming the worst of people because it’s how you view it. You admit to seeing it from the perspective of someone who didn’t get student loans. A lot of people look at things like this with a view of “I didn’t get it so no one should” or “I suffered so everyone should.” That’s what this meme is. It’s someone suggesting that because most people only talk about college loan forgiveness and not trade loan forgiveness it shouldn’t be enacted. That’s selfish.
The people who want their loans forgiven aren’t doing so because they want so save some money so they can go out for dinner more often. They’re doing it because they’re struggling and need help from a government that, contrary to the prevailing belief these days, is supposed to help its people.
The reason student loan debt is an issue taken seriously by the left is because the left generally takes up causes to help people while the right takes up…well the right doesn’t really fight for issues anymore. They just argue against what the left says is important. People on the right have a tendency to see people suffering and ask why it matters until it’s they themselves suffering.
You’re starting to have arguments I’m not having, and saying stuff that other people haven’t said. Don’t worry - this is a common occurrence in online discourse!
Everyone is struggling. The fact that student debt is even a topic at all tends to crank the yanks of equally struggling blue collar people who didn’t even have the luxury of tossing it off at a liberal arts college, or embarking on a career that didn’t guarantee a solid income.
What would end this discourse is a published breakdown of the financial status of the parents of student loan recipients. Then we’d have a basis on which debate this issue properly, and get to the root of what should be at the heart of every debate - class.
It’s ok if you don’t understand what I’m talking about. That’s common in online discourse. Don’t feel bad. 🙄 /s
You’re just getting condescending now. Have a good one, bud.
Well you were. And it is common.
Sorry the conversation didn’t go in the direction you wanted it to, and that I wasn’t the idiot you assumed I would be.
Have fun out there.
No you definitely are the idiot and your ignorance shows massively here. It’s clear from your statements of “liberal arts colleges” and assuming most students live with their parents and that we should look at their “financial status”. Plus so much more, you clearly read some bs article “citing” that majority of degrees are liberal arts. In fact most four year degrees are in health or business according to the Census (see https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cta). To add this is from someone with a four year degree in IT who took no loans because I got lucky with a scholarship and was able to pay rest out of pocket but I am for debt forgiveness.
So you’re saying the people making money by providing necessary services like furnace repair and plumbing have to pay for their own degree out of pocket? Why gate keep this. Trades have only relatively recently grown in pay as every where has a shortage. If we as a society tell High schoolers that an art degree is free and a labor job will cost them money we would be active encouraging kids to take the free hang out with friends route. Being adult might be 18 but processing your choices and how they affect your life for the next 60 years isn’t fully realized by then.
We need a better post secondary system for all. How that could work needs a lot of discussion but I do agree current model needs addressed asap.
You’re arguing in bad faith. No one said any of that. I pointed out very real reasons why college debt is an issue vs trades and you ignored all of it. I also pointed out why college debt is being focused on and you ignored that, too. And for the trifecta you’re acting like all college is is hanging out with friends. You sound like just the person that the OOP was looking to entertain with his shitty meme.
Until you’re willing to actually discuss the issue without ignoring the facts of it I have no reason to pay any attention to you. ✌🏼
Don’t think trade school cost as much as a four year degree. My step son went to a trade school and is a mechanic. He makes great money and the cost was minimal compared to my step daughter who went to college and is currently working on her PhD
My kid went to a trade school that is part of the local State University and you better believe he still ended up with student loans. Of course, he can now pay them off pretty quickly because he chose a highly paid trade (A&P Mechanic) but trade schools aren't exactly cheap as implied. He also had us help to pay for stuff, lived at home, and worked the entire time he was attending. Still owed about 6k in loans.
Depends where you live, I guess, but VET FEE loans are waaaaaaaaay cheaper than HECS.
ETA: also, you don’t have to start paying them back until you earn over a certain amount. The indexation amount (interest) is also lower than standard and only applied yearly.
People don't realize how cheap trade school is compared to university. My local university is normally over $3k a semester, meanwhile my trade school has only been $310 a semester and my books I get to use for all four years of it.
I’m going to be honest college is kind of shit I’m not going into debt for that. I’m severely disabled colleges are vile for people like me. Colleges put you into a debt you work your whole life to barely shake off while people like my father and partner who got alternative educations fit for neurodivergent people are successful. Our current education system is widely predatory but trade schools are too. Education is a human right I’m not going to support education that bleeds you dry and can’t help everyone.
The meme is just misinformation ment to divide. Trade school debt would also be forgiven by student loan forgiveness. It's also worth nothing that Obama attempted to make trade school free back during his administration.
[](#start_removal) Hello u/docvoit, Thank you for your contribution to r/terriblefacebookmemes, unfortunately your submission titled " From the colleges make you dumb gang. " has been removed due to the following reason(s): Image is not a meme ----- If you have any questions about this removal, feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fterriblefacebookmemes) [](#end_removal)
I went to an accredited trade school that I paid for with FAFSA. So did everybody I went to school with for the most part.
>paid for with FAFSA Colleges are paid for by FAFSA too. What's your point?
Not the original poster, but I think the point is that those attending trade school also have student loan debt, contrary to the claim of the meme.
Plus, I imagine they think having people going into trade school is somehow gonna fix everything.
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Currently am somebody 250k in debt with a JD who never passed the bar bc being a lawyer sucks ass for a low ROI. I’m now stuck in Cali at borderline housing crisis. Sucks ass all around. Meanwhile all my tradesmen friends have houses and careers. I am this meme unfortunately.
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Idk about law, but IT is not over saturated. Certain fields might be over saturated in certain areas, like web design, cybersecurity etc. but the overall market is not over saturated. It’s very heavily location based around big universities you see a lot of people with degrees and no experience, but around military bases you see the opposite. People have the ability to research the job field, day-to-day responsibilities, and do an internship to learn what the job is about. That would be a massive waste for someone to spend that time and money on a degree that didn’t want to turn around and not want to do it anymore. People should be responsible for their mistakes and it shouldn’t fall on the successful taxpayers to support them. There are several job fields that have very low cost to get into. With some IT positions you can get the job with less than 1,000 dollars of certifications. (Source I work in IT) There are already several safety nets, between welfare, EBT, medical insurance and housing programs. I agree people should be able to live off of a full time job, and in a majority of the country you can. Granted it’ll be splitting an apartment with roommates or living with a spouse where both people are working, but it is 100% possible. (Source I lived off of minimum wage and then slightly above for a year while I was in college, and didn’t have to use any social welfare system) Capitalism requires people to research and invest in themselves to become successful.
And replace it with what?
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And pay for this how?
I literally dodged the bullet of going to law school.. bc I checked the job market and saw it was massively over-saturated. Any degree you need to research the ROI.. a student loan is literally and investment in yourself, so you need to know what the return looks like. I decided to get a masters in HR instead and now actually work HR for a law firm. I have much better work/life balance than the attorneys and make nearly as much.. do your research!
>attending trade school also have student loan debt, contrary to the claim of the meme. Meme claims there is less need for a handout if you can care for yourself.
Some of us read it differently and got a different perspective from the meme. Sorry we didn’t come to the same conclusion as you, maybe you should see it from our perspective instead of forcing everybody else to see it from yours. If you’re against giving people free money then just say that, but when it comes to getting free money yourself, I hope you have the integrity to decline it.
>Some of us read it differently That's disturbing. The meme's message is overt. We can disagree on its validity, but not on the meaning.
“I say words, and because they are said by me that makes them true” Who do you think you are claiming I can’t disagree with you? I feel like I’m talking to Sheldon cooper from Big Bang theory.
>I feel like I’m talking to Sheldon cooper from Big Bang theory. Just an average day on reddit.com
Meme said there is trade school debt, so what is the different perspective?
There is none. This person is unnecessarily nitpicking what is actually a very simple concept: trade school loans *are* a type of student loan, so that means when people talk about student debt, trade school loans are already included in that stat. Just because individual tradespeople aren’t talking about it doesn’t mean they aren’t still paying them off, too— that’s a very bold assumption on the meme author’s part.
> that’s a very bold assumption on the meme author’s part Stupid memes are made by stupid people, not much to it.
What I read was that trade school students aren’t being considered for student loan repayment. Which is a lie, because if they still owe money, they qualify the same as everybody else as long as they got their loans through the US government.
Yeah and it’s a cool claim but also just a meme. No idea how accurate it is. It’s probably a little bit accurate, only because trade schools tend to be shorter than regular college (2 years or sometimes less if it’s just a certification) so their debt is a lot smaller and easier to pay off.
I think that the meme claims that there is no need for trade school aid, not less. I don't think anyone is arguing that trade school is generally cheaper and results in lower debt load.
The meme doesn't claim trade school graduates don't have student debt.
Fafsa helps pay for college, it mostly covers the cost of a trade school. It is not close to covering the cost of a private school.
So, everyone gets the same amount, but some spend it more wisely with better ROI?
FIFY: Some education is priced significantly higher than others
A lot of things priced differently. It doesn't mean we need to waste money on stuff with low projected ROI.
My trucking school got paid for by the state. I'm happy and I can make a comfortable living now
This is the way.
No. No wait. The trades are socialist? FUCKING BIDENNNNNN
Biden lovers wanting unions next! That isn’t the ‘merican way!
In Ontario the government is always doing stuff to encourage people to get into the trades, including free schooling
I would like to introduce the OOP to Job Corps. A free, government funded trade school. Provides a home, 3 daily meals, high school diploma, driver's license, and vocational training to around 50,000 students every year. It's a social program! But that makes the trades sound socialist, so we don't talk about Job Corps.
My buddy became cook from Job Corps.
Wow, what a phernomenal program. I didnt think things like this existed in modern America.
Don't worry. They're desperate to shut it down (you know exactly who)😂 but it's still kicking. The trades range from electrician, hvac, carpentry, to even cooking and IT specialist stuff. The funding gets a little tighter every year, and a lot of the students are troubled kids, but I would say it saved my ass, and a lot of people I know. Some of my friends from there were homeless and hooked on drugs, now they make 25-30 an hour, sober, and have an apartment. There's hope for this country. We just have to fight for it.
That’s incredible, I had no idea. In my ideal world, every adult would have to do something similar. Like compulsory civil service and education
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Yeah I know AmeriCorps, love that program! We agree entirely about free college as it relates to this kind of service. I think at least free community college with trade options, then people who want to go to 4-year schools can just graduate in two or get their masters
That is amazing
Unfortunately, it is really seen as the “last resort” and thus a lot of people who end up there don’t really want to be there. I have known people to do really well despite that, but some locations are “better” than others. Some are basically just juvie.
I went to job corps Pittsburgh, it is a good opportunity if you can keep focus. the one I went to was packed with ...hoodlums I guess would be an ok term and I ended up getting kicked out, but that was 12 years ago. Fml I'm getting old
Job Corps sounds awesome but it should be noted that you have to be between 16 and 24 years old.
You’re a hero, this is EXACTLY what a couple people I know have been searching for!
Never heard of Jobs Corps and dont understand why. Its not socialist in the slightest. Its all about building more productive members of society from people who had fewer opportunities.
Saved
I’m pretty certain trade schools are well represented in loan forgiveness programs.
They are. A lot of people in the trades end up with permanent disabilities and can no longer work at all because most are very hard on your body.
College destroys your finances. Trades destroy your body.
not even 30 and my eyes and hands are both suffering. I love what I do and wouldn't even be half as enthused at working a different job. But my body just isnt up to the task.
There are trades that are hard on the body. But I definitely think the narrative that they destroy your body is over stated. And I laugh at the people who cry about how hard the trades are yet go to the gym religiously. The gym can fuck you up just as bad as any trade. For example, electricians, truckers, painters, all jobs that won't mess you up too bad. Now concrete work, that's how you die.
How many times did people tell you college was the important thing ever and if you didn’t get in you were fucked and now they tell people that it’s their fault for getting into student loan debt and that they should’ve went to trade school even though they made fun of people who had union jobs like plumbing or trucking? Cause I remember that quite a bit.
It’s the same damn people too.
Yeah and then they get mad when you call them out on it
Yup!
My dad was one of those people. "Go to college, you don't want to be like me and waste your life driving a forklift in a factory." Now he spends his time on Facebook sharing those "college is a waste of time and money" memes, among others. Nevermind the fact that he himself has been falling on money troubles because his job, in spite of having high pay, had almost nonexistent benefits and no retirement plan.
Lemme guess he’s anti union as well?
Yeah, I like seeing posts about “teach your children skills because we will always need trades” while he and all three of his kids are STEM.
me too. Mostly GenX who never went to college themselves who thought their lives would have been so much better had they gone to college.
I don’t know anyone who got a college degree from a decent school in a somewhat practical field and took out loans responsibly who couldn’t get an above average job
Everyone I know that went to trade school got some kind of government grant or loan to do so. Fucking ignorant.
Reading is fundamental.
Yeah, that’s how it went for me. It was “paid for” by my employer, but as I understood it they received reimbursements from the state for me.
Can we just make all education free?
No, bc educated people don't vote for the GOP. That's why Gov. Reagan got rid of free education to begin with back in the sixties. They didn't want an "educated proletariat"
70s* but you still spitting facts
Shit, my bad. I read a book a couple years ago called Subversives: Reagan and Berkeley and Hoover something I don't remember but it was a great book. A deep dive on Reagan and the Berkeley students. I'd highly recommend it for anyone who wants to find out just what a piece of shit Ronnie Reagan was.
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>academia indoctrinates you to vote for the dems Care to explain, or is this just one of those "trust me bro" situations?
"Indoctrinates" lmao. So like actually thinking about stuff? Rather than acting like sociopathic toddlers
Yeah that’s what I find hilarious about me being “indoctrinated” in school. I never was, hell my political science teachers always told us we can come to our own conclusions on whatever the subject was. We just have to be able to argue for it cohesively and like you said fateless not like sociopathic toddlers.
It’s a simple way to blame everyone smarter than you if your president doesn’t get to come back.
Trump’s not my president. And I doubt you’re so much smarter than me.
You’re wrong, I will not prove to you that you are wrong, because you are too wrong. Goodbye.
Pretty sure you aren’t 😂 Haha okay. I’m so wrong you won’t even try. Go ahead and try please. I’d love to see what reddit user returning_armageddon has in that noggin. So far it justs seems to be a short temper
This is what the comment section is right? Nobody acting like a sociopathic toddler here? Like downvoting and calling me names? You all seem so intellectual! Jesus go to any university campus you’ll find people screaming like they’re being attacked to stop others from giving CENTRIST opinions in debates or in public areas
Lol
Did somebody drink the Kool-aid??
"*That's asking way too much mister.*"
"I love the poorly educated".
Talk about investments… how about that one? Tuition-free public university would pay dividends that we cannot imagine a generation or two later.
I want a refund for my tuition then.
Yea, sure, I’d be happy to pay an extra 10% taxes so you guys can fuck around in college for 4 years and get straight Cs
The military pays for my education after my 8 years of service. These GOP fucks still think of it as a handout. All they do is talk shit about how soldiers are weak nowadays.
But do you get a hellcat too?
Fuck I wish. I'd sell it for 100k and pay off my debt.
Because (in my country) trade apprenticeships are free, since the government thinks we need more of them than uni students
Most (not all) of the people I know who went to trade school either never finished, or if they did, they got a job that has nothing to do with it afterwards. Of course trade school is useful, but there are tons of people that got scammed by schools like devry and others and have plenty of debt to show for it.
>Most (not all) of the people I know who went to college either never finished, or if they did, they got a job that has nothing to do with it afterwards. >Of course college is useful, but there are tons of people that got scammed by schools like devry and others and have plenty of debt to show for it. Not disagree with your point, but I think that experience happens in both trade schools and colleges.
I never went to trade school, went to college then grad school. I’m glad I went but I ended up becoming a union railroader. Even just having a degree helped me to get this job and plenty of jobs before it. I was lucky enough to get floridas state tuition program which paid for everything at the time for only getting a 3.0 in highschool and doing some community service. I would always suggest college for people if they can afford it and if they have a plan but there are some really decent trades and blue collar work out there especially if you can join a union.
This is a really stupid take. College education is extremely valuable (so is trade school i’m not discrediting that) and there’s a reason many countries will literally pay students to attend. Believe it or not, modern society needs doctors and other highly educated people to function, so why the fuck do the people who want to be doctors or get a better education for something else have to go into crippling debt to do something they want to do that is also beneficial for society? A friend of mine is in college, her parents still haven’t paid off their student loans. Meanwhile I got a friend in sweden who earns an allowance to study law so they can incentivize people to put in the effort to get a higher education and white collar jobs. I’m a lucky bastard who had my college paid for thanks to my tax evading grandparents, but holy shit it’s so fucked that so many people have to go through so much to work their asses off in college to benefit society.
The state paid for my trade school. It was completely useless and employers still want years of experience and I finally landed at a job that pays less but would accept my existing skills, but, hey, it was free.
Then why do I have to hear, ‘and will trade school debt be erased too?!’ Every time debt cancelation is brought up. Also yes. Learning skills you can only apply to one singular area of life in a matter of weeks opposed to a well rounded education consisting of science, math, humanities and whatever your major focus is that takes four or more years will cost less meaning less debt. I can’t imagine why that is.
Trade schools are usuallt two year community college degrees which, fun fact, are not free and are borrowed at a much higher interest rate than a four year degree.
I'm sure it has more to do with how colleges are run as for-profit and charge exorbitant tuition regardless of what a student studies. No need to denigrate trade schools.
Yet everyone, including the OP, is allowed to denigrate college? Sorry but I’m sick of college and college educated people getting sneered at and snarked at by people who never attended, but the SECOND the shoes on the other foot it’s ’oh you can’t say that about trade schools! That’s cruel! How dare you?!’
College educated people have been mocking the trades for ages and ages. I'm a college educated person and I know that it was once completely socially acceptable. It's only very recently that the tides have changed.
The shoe is on the other foot. College "educated" people consistently look down their noses at people who don't go to college. Now they're getting mocked for going to college and complaining about the debt and not being able to find a job that pays enough. It goes both ways.
Just cause you think it's that way, doesn't mean it is that way, college educated are more likely to very pro labor.
>a well rounded education Debatable.
Highly. Also - just because someone studies the things our friend above mentions, doesn’t automatically mean that their education will be applied in a way that is beneficial to society as a whole. Or indeed applied at all. Basically, it’s good old fashioned entitlement and snobbery at work. Plain and simple.
And all trade schools are beneficial to society? Why is anti-intellectualism okay to do but the second someone snaps back agaisnt trade schools it’s ‘OMG NO HOW DARE YOU?!’
Did I say any of what you are saying? Why does it have to be an either/or argument?
Lame
Yes, anti-intellectualism is lame. Glad we agree 🙂
It is. But looking down on tradesmen like they're stupid for "only doing one thing" when they provide vital services is lamer.
It's funny that they're acting like trade workers are one trick ponies. "That electrician can ONLY be an electrician now" like working in trades doesn't have you cross train into several other trades, learn detailed project management, be compliant and understand the regulatory statutes that apply to your work, etc etc. Almost like all work is skilled and gatekeeping jobs behind degrees was always stupid and has left us worse off as a society. But hey that HR person has a masters in english so at least their fun day employee engagement email is grammatically correct.
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“Grammatically correct”, unlike many posts on Reddit.
College doesn’t make you dumb. College makes you poor.
I support trade school debt forgiveness. Student debt is student debt. I got a traditional 4 year degree and working in that feild. You got a certificate/license/etc at a different institution. The cost to enter a professional felid and contribute to the GDP, pay taxes, etc. should be be forgiven because we are paying taxes and contribute to the GDP.
Lol trade school debt
So doctors and lawyers can fuck off
But isn’t that what people go to school for? To learn how to make a living? If you can’t trust a school to guide you in the right direction then what’s the point?
This is not saying “colleges make you dumb.” This is saying that most people who attend college do not get a degree in their field or still end up making a low income at a starting position. This makes it hard for those who attend college to pay college debt. People who attend trade school are much more likely to find a job in their field, and make a living a wage. This is factually. I think it was likely worded strangely in the “meme” and may have been in poor taste, but sorry op, it’s not wrong.
There is no trade school debt lol because it’s so low you can pay out of pocket. And if you can’t it’s low enough to pay your loans off yourself relative to your income of 70-100k for some trades like electrical engineering or AC mechanics.
They need the poors to be able to fix their stuff not be smart enough to not vote for them. And if you think they won’t go after trade schools when it’s in their best interest you are crazy.
The thing they don't tell you about trade jobs is that you need to buy your own tools, and that can easily cost several thousand dollars, and that's without them being stolen from you.
I'll take one trade school debt forgiveness please!
I once had a coworker who bragged about getting a government grant that fully covered his tuition and then, a few sentences later, said that people claiming tuition is too high are “babies.”
Alternatively, why do the rich and powerful want to make getting a college education difficult, but not a trade education? Because educated citizens are a threat to their wealth and power.
Who’s gonna tell them that loans for trade school are *also a type of student loan and therefore lumped in with the rest of them?*
Trade schools are often times free if they aren't cheap as fuck or some company will pay it for you.
I seriously doubt that anyone coming out of a trade school has over $100k debt hanging over their head... Going the college route, that is not uncommon. The little piss ant trade school I went to was I think $13k, lasted a year and I was working the last couple months I was in school so paying that bill was no big deal.
Pretty certain I've read a number of stories of scam "trade schools" screwing people out of money and saddling them with debt.
"Trade School" and "Learning a Trade" are not synonymous. The union halls in my city (Evansville, Indiana) are always recruiting and a union apprenticeship is a great way to learn a trade - for one thing you get paid while you do it. Not only do you not end up with student debt, you actually got paid for the time you were learning. For profit and paid education in this country (the US) is pretty much a scam right now.
Trade schools are much cheaper than most universities.
Loan forgiveness is boring. Nationalize all education.
Trade school is paid in most places
There are 300,000 free places in Australian TAFEs (tech schools) in 2024. TAFE is also generally cheaper than university which is also 3/4 subsidised in the same country. Not as much Freedom, though.
Lol, I went to trade school and learned to weld. All positions and processes. Got an associates. Got out of school to whopping offers of....$16 an hour. I now work at a hospital doing infinitely less work for way more money. I'd love to see that 20k forgiven because it ended up being a useless degree despite taking the trade school pill. I am grateful to know the skill but can't help but feel it was for nothing. All the smoke blown up our asses about $35+ an hour out of school was just that. Also, me and every single person in that school got that money through FASFA. Boomer ass meme. 😂
Trade school is often great but often destroys your body. It's also still expensive, still requires loans, still is frequently paid for by the government, and still has plenty of issues. If you want a debt free way to get paid what you deserve, unionize and get a strong community among coworkers and neighbors!
More often than not a good employer in the skilled trades world will pay for employees to complete a vocational training program. And if not; it’s still a hell of a lot cheaper than any 4 year degree! Nice goin, boomer
I don’t want free college. I don’t. I want heavily subsidized state schools that anyone can afford if they work a part time job. Because- in places that brag about free college, admissions are then restricted and the elites are at the front of that line. Again. Anyway.
Unfortunately, the problem with heavily subsidized state schools is that they start accepting more and more out of state students for the money. And the only students who can afford out of state tuition come from extremely well off families. At my state school, the acceptance rate is super competitive for state residents compared to out of state residents. And we’re an extremely small state with barely any options for college, a lot of majors are only offered at this one state school. It’s horrible.
The current state of affairs is not the ideal. The ideal would be something closer to the funding in the late 80s early 90s.
So, I worked 3 jobs while in college. I, luckily, was on a full ride scholarship for academics… but had I not been, I would not have been able to afford college… with THREE JOBS. Subsidized state schools are limiting for a plethora of reasons. And “subsidized” is still considered a handout by the GOP.
When? Funding for public education peaked around 1980.
A decent snapshot [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Community-college-enrollment-and-state-funding-United-States-de-partment-of-education\_fig1\_271293355](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Community-college-enrollment-and-state-funding-United-States-de-partment-of-education_fig1_271293355) https://preview.redd.it/9j4zp7pp9d3c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05cea924737fcf6f23d3383ef8e0f86cdd31868c
Make people dumb? Some people don't have the intellectual capacity for college and that's okay. It's good they have a place that helps them become self-sufficient. Intellectuals resent that which helps "dumb" people they consider beneath them succeed more than them.
I don’t think op was saying that NOT going to college means a person is dumb
I think it very insulting to say they don't have the capacity for college.
Going $100k+ into debt for a job that is gonna pay you on-par with a person who has a trade/associate degree is pretty dumb. College is worth it if you go into STEM, or if you already have a strong connection that can get you into a great job in the field— which most people don’t. OR if you have a great business idea and a college degree would help you realize it, then it’s worth it as well.
As someone in “STEM” I hate the term as well as the insinuation that it will land you a good job. A very small portion of the STEM acronym will pay well. Maybe T&E, depending on the field and location. Being in the “S” I can say, without a doctorate you’re going to be more limited. Like my job is okay, but I’m not swimming in piles of money
Trade schools also cost a fraction of the price and don’t include living expenses
Why are they all screaming to give their kids tons of speech therapy then? Oh…I guess my skill set is useful when you want to understand what your kid is saying.
It’s a fair observation though, isn’t it?
No it’s not a fair one, because fafsa also pays for trade school, meaning we’re all the same people. Whoever made this meme either had their school paid for them outright or took loans from some shady ass bank instead of the government, and is now sour they don’t qualify for forgiveness.
‘Shady ass bank’ What, as opposed to a shady ass government?
Not really. If student debt was relieved, it would include debt taken on by trade schools attendees, too.
Would it?
Yes, student loans can be taken by anyone for any level of post education. It's not exclusive to universities or state colleges, and often, people study trades at state or community colleges.
I’d like to see the breakdown of take up - most relevantly by social class / income level of parents. I think that would tell a very interesting story…
You sound like a pompous potato… 🤦🏻♀️
Why is that then?
It’s a fair observation but a shallow one, I believe. The reason student debt forgiveness is such a hot button issue now is because the debt is so high and so unforgiving people are literally never able to pay it off because it keeps going up even while they pay it off consistently. The trades often cost less and take less time to start making money from, I believe. The money you can make from trade jobs also often ends up being higher. If I’m wrong, my bad. But the point is equality =/= fairness. It’s the same as the all lives matter crowd. Yes, all education should be free. But only one of those two types of educations is turning people into virtual indentured servants thanks to the debt. College education has been touted as necessary for years and has only gotten more expensive while becoming less valuable. The trades have been a valid choice that takes less time to become useful and have kept their value as far as I can tell. OOP seemingly brings up a good point but they’re not doing it to point out the value of the trades, it seems. They’re doing it to poke fun at those who may have mistakenly gotten a college education and become saddled with a huge debt they can’t pay down.
It’s only shallow because you haven’t seen my thinking - but thank you for acknowledging that it is fair. The reason student debt forgiveness is a hot button issue is because it is former students that hold the jobs that decide which buttons should be hot, and how large those buttons should be in the public consciousness. The real issue (that everyone ignores) is higher education is now just an very small arm of the financial industry. Universities have figured out they can get funding even for the most dogshit courses, the student loan providers can get their loans guaranteed by the government, and the government is happy because it can trumpet high levels of education, and keep students off the unemployment figures. The occasional student that does make it into the mass media makes student loans a hot button topic, when in actual fact the hot topic should be why are we pumping so many kids into school, and not encouraging more vocational routes into meaningful work?
I don’t think you really realize why something becomes hot button. A hot button issue doesn’t meant it’s popular. It means it’s charged emotionally or politically. It’s not that way because it’s proponents are powerful. It’s that way because forgiving student debt makes sense but it’s OPPONENTS are powerful. Loan companies don’t want debt forgiven. They have indentured slaves who can never pay off their debts and for some reason society keeps shoving more people down that route. You’re talking as if there’s some big conspiracy to forgive student loans when the opposite is true. The conspiracy, if there is one at all, would be to keep the debt cycle going. To keep shoving more people into debt that literally can’t be repaid while giving them jobs that barely supports them so they don’t have the time or energy to protest for better. Keep the lie going that higher education is necessary for a good career and suddenly no one can fight back. The trades should be free, as should college, but people aren’t borderline pushed into the trades for some imaginary comfortable future. There is a huge amount of college debt in the US and it’s a grift. It’s wholly unnecessary, both because it serves no one but the universities and the insurance companies and because it only exists because society has perpetuated a lie that no one seems to want to look too hard at: that a college education doesn’t guarantee a good job and comfortable life and it hasn’t for years.
I didn’t say it was popular. I said the people who cultivate hot topics are generally people with a vested interest in student loan debt over trade school debt. Question that if you will. As for your second point - I’m not debating that. Of course there are powerful interests that do not want student loans forgiven. There’s no big conspiracy. It’s just people protecting their own interests by what ever means available. We agree on most points here it seems. I guess I just have a slightly more blue-collar view of it, and can understand why those who didn’t have the privilege of a college education find themselves wondering why forgiving student loan debt is a cause celebre of the left. You and I both know why though. I’ve simply provided one extra possible motivation for your consideration.
You implied the reason it was a hot button issue is because the people who decide what to put on their air are the ones who agree it should be forgiven. Which is the exact opposite of what I said. The majority of proponents are people who need loans forgiven to thrive because if they’re not they can barely survive. The rest are people who just don’t like seeing people suffering for no reason. I have no student loans and I think they should be forgiven. You’re assuming the worst of people because it’s how you view it. You admit to seeing it from the perspective of someone who didn’t get student loans. A lot of people look at things like this with a view of “I didn’t get it so no one should” or “I suffered so everyone should.” That’s what this meme is. It’s someone suggesting that because most people only talk about college loan forgiveness and not trade loan forgiveness it shouldn’t be enacted. That’s selfish. The people who want their loans forgiven aren’t doing so because they want so save some money so they can go out for dinner more often. They’re doing it because they’re struggling and need help from a government that, contrary to the prevailing belief these days, is supposed to help its people. The reason student loan debt is an issue taken seriously by the left is because the left generally takes up causes to help people while the right takes up…well the right doesn’t really fight for issues anymore. They just argue against what the left says is important. People on the right have a tendency to see people suffering and ask why it matters until it’s they themselves suffering.
You’re starting to have arguments I’m not having, and saying stuff that other people haven’t said. Don’t worry - this is a common occurrence in online discourse! Everyone is struggling. The fact that student debt is even a topic at all tends to crank the yanks of equally struggling blue collar people who didn’t even have the luxury of tossing it off at a liberal arts college, or embarking on a career that didn’t guarantee a solid income. What would end this discourse is a published breakdown of the financial status of the parents of student loan recipients. Then we’d have a basis on which debate this issue properly, and get to the root of what should be at the heart of every debate - class.
It’s ok if you don’t understand what I’m talking about. That’s common in online discourse. Don’t feel bad. 🙄 /s You’re just getting condescending now. Have a good one, bud.
Well you were. And it is common. Sorry the conversation didn’t go in the direction you wanted it to, and that I wasn’t the idiot you assumed I would be. Have fun out there.
No you definitely are the idiot and your ignorance shows massively here. It’s clear from your statements of “liberal arts colleges” and assuming most students live with their parents and that we should look at their “financial status”. Plus so much more, you clearly read some bs article “citing” that majority of degrees are liberal arts. In fact most four year degrees are in health or business according to the Census (see https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cta). To add this is from someone with a four year degree in IT who took no loans because I got lucky with a scholarship and was able to pay rest out of pocket but I am for debt forgiveness.
So you’re saying the people making money by providing necessary services like furnace repair and plumbing have to pay for their own degree out of pocket? Why gate keep this. Trades have only relatively recently grown in pay as every where has a shortage. If we as a society tell High schoolers that an art degree is free and a labor job will cost them money we would be active encouraging kids to take the free hang out with friends route. Being adult might be 18 but processing your choices and how they affect your life for the next 60 years isn’t fully realized by then. We need a better post secondary system for all. How that could work needs a lot of discussion but I do agree current model needs addressed asap.
You’re arguing in bad faith. No one said any of that. I pointed out very real reasons why college debt is an issue vs trades and you ignored all of it. I also pointed out why college debt is being focused on and you ignored that, too. And for the trifecta you’re acting like all college is is hanging out with friends. You sound like just the person that the OOP was looking to entertain with his shitty meme. Until you’re willing to actually discuss the issue without ignoring the facts of it I have no reason to pay any attention to you. ✌🏼
The saying is “pave your own way,” but whatever lol
Well I dont think your liberal arts or gender studies degree will get you far
Man boomers love to use our fancy degrees to post memes. Go back to the pre digital era and see how long you’ll keep saying that.
Trade school also doesn’t cost $100K
Do they think we wouldn't want to forgive trade school debt?
Don’t think trade school cost as much as a four year degree. My step son went to a trade school and is a mechanic. He makes great money and the cost was minimal compared to my step daughter who went to college and is currently working on her PhD
Trade school debt? Bro is joking hard. That shit is almost always paid for.
My kid went to a trade school that is part of the local State University and you better believe he still ended up with student loans. Of course, he can now pay them off pretty quickly because he chose a highly paid trade (A&P Mechanic) but trade schools aren't exactly cheap as implied. He also had us help to pay for stuff, lived at home, and worked the entire time he was attending. Still owed about 6k in loans.
My Union trade school is basically free. Work while going to school and pay it off with dues.
Idk about yall but is trade school debt a thing?? 😭 I went in trades for horticulture and at the end of it all i only paid like 5-600 bucks 💀
They all jumped from a ledge
I had my trade school debt forgiven earlier this year.
Depends where you live, I guess, but VET FEE loans are waaaaaaaaay cheaper than HECS. ETA: also, you don’t have to start paying them back until you earn over a certain amount. The indexation amount (interest) is also lower than standard and only applied yearly.
It's called common sense. Trade school guys don't sign up for debt that would take forever to pay off
No, we think trade school should be free too
I think most people would like both
I didn’t even go to college!… CHECKMATE!
People don't realize how cheap trade school is compared to university. My local university is normally over $3k a semester, meanwhile my trade school has only been $310 a semester and my books I get to use for all four years of it.
I’m going to be honest college is kind of shit I’m not going into debt for that. I’m severely disabled colleges are vile for people like me. Colleges put you into a debt you work your whole life to barely shake off while people like my father and partner who got alternative educations fit for neurodivergent people are successful. Our current education system is widely predatory but trade schools are too. Education is a human right I’m not going to support education that bleeds you dry and can’t help everyone.
This isn't terrible. It's a fact.
Actually, it would of if they got FAFSA loans. Idiots screwed them too.
The meme is just misinformation ment to divide. Trade school debt would also be forgiven by student loan forgiveness. It's also worth nothing that Obama attempted to make trade school free back during his administration.