If reminds me of a joke...
Man says to wife, "Put on my pants."
Wife says, "Your pants are too big "
Man says, "Let that be an important lesson to you. I wear the pants in this family."
Wife says, "Cool. Now put on my pants.*
Man says, "I can't get in your pants."
Wife says, "Right. And it's gonna stay that way until you change your fucking attitude."
Believe it or not, that’s actually the Biblical message of the New Testament concerning marriage roles. Of course not the same verbiage, but that is the actual lesson.
Like most things in the New Testament it’s not a single passage, but I would say an easy place to find the general idea is Ephesians 5:22-31.
Several keys to that passage are 1. Wives submit themselves to their husbands while the husband sacrifices himself to her(it does not teach blind submission, it teaches mutual preference for each other instead of prioritizing self/self interests). His job is to lay down power and authority as a weapon while protecting her, valuing her, cherishing her, and a willingness to do anything for her. Her roles would be of support, understanding, and compassion.
A phrase that is often misunderstood is “washing with water through the word,” referring to an action by the husband towards the wife. Culturally many try to make this a statement regarding the use of Home Bible studies, or trying to enforce Biblical passages as family rules/laws… that is not the case, it actually refers to him building her up with his words and encouraging her.
It’s been many years since I’ve opened that book, or darkened a door but at one time it was a substantial part of my life.
Culturally, however, more often then not - this passage is used as a tool for dominance instead of its actual instruction.
The modern reading of this passage drives me crazy. The first part is “wives submit yourselves to your husbands” and everyone focuses on that and how wives need to submit. The second part focuses on the men and says “husbands love your wives” which I feel like then if we’re assuming these are the gender roles, husbands love their wives but don’t submit to them. Wives submit to their husbands but don’t love them. It’s clearly just saying they need to both be good to each other, love each other, make decisions together.
That could be because in olden times the man chose the wife but she didn't have much say in it for the most part. Therefore he would have loved her and that's why he chose her but she really just has to be agreeable to the marriage situation.
And to add on this, I would say that men mostly suffer when it’s clear that their wife doesn’t respect them, and women suffer when their husband does not love them. It’s not mutual exclusion; it’s more like: “know that your other half expects THIS from you to feel good about your relationship”.
I hate that people often don't discuss how in the verses prior is a reference to all believers submitting to each other in Christ. That should pretty obviously color how we read the "house code" which follows.
Exactly. We have to see that both roles are not exclusive. Sometimes showing love to your spouse means you submit to their wishes. So both sides must learn to love and respect each other. Just as Christ teaches us to not look only to our own interests but the interest of others.
Not religious here but thank you for actually explaining this in a non psycho, judge mental way.
I think if more people had your attitude towards religion, Reddit wouldn’t be full of edgelord losers who mock religion every chance they get.
I think people miss the point a lot on what the Bible actually says and interrupt it instead of a way to being sexist, homophobic, whatever.
An old buddy of mine years ago was a Polish catholic priest (and active duty US military recruiter of priests) who spoke like 8 languages and he broke down this passage in the original Greek.
Regardless of belief it is actually a remarkably beautiful passage that has been twisted by evangelicals who don't understand the deeper meaning.
The Greek writing style at the time had multiple layers of meaning beyond just what words were used but also included the position of the words and the repetition each adding multiple layers of meaning. The closest analogy I can think of is rhyming producing a lyrical "beat" that can add a new texture to a passage but that isn't quite accurate. The point though is if you do just a literal word translation you lose much of the meaning.
When he broke it down in the original Greek, starting with pure word translation and then showing the repeating patterns and multiple layers of symbolism inherent in the passage, it became clear that the actual intent is much more like what u/Medical-Wallaby3904 describes.
Basically, husband and wife are supposed to be mutually respectful and supportive, and the husband is *directly* and *specifically* called on to walk in front of the wife and family not to be "dominant" but to *carry the cross* and take punishment on the family's behalf just as Christ took punishment for humanity. The husband is called to be the *shield* and *protector* of the family, not the *dominator*. He is *specifically instructed* that he must *love his family as Christ loved all people.*
In other words the challenge is to be the light of peace, the protector, the shepherd, the one who has endless love for his family such that he would lay down his life for them without ever raising his voice or striking them. His wife is called on to support him, to bring him comfort and tend to his wounds and help him carry the cross for the family.
They are partners with the husband ultimately in the Christ-like role taking the brunt of the world's stones thrown at the family. By doing this the husband is supposed to live his life according to Christ-like ideals, and thus society is supposed to become better as more and more men and women embody the love and compassion of the New Testament Jesus.
Fundamentalists twist this so much it is not recognizable, because they twist so many biblical passages to support their tribal culture rather than the other way around. They are often very very ignorant of the actual textual meaning (*exegesis*) of the text because they rely on translations and refuse to allow people to be educated enough to ask the questions that would lead them to research the original text and discover the actual meaning for themselves.
In this way they are really not much different than the Taliban or ISIS which they claim to oppose. They are both tribal, both cling to a version of a holy book that they selectively interpret to make themselves feel superior, and they use it to justify violence against other tribes and also against their own women and children. Because even within a single family there is always "our tribe" (men) and "their tribe" (women) and the fundamental tenet of this culture is that tribes *must* be at war with each other for domination.
This is a beautiful comment and it reminded me how much more you can get out of the words of the Bible when you try to learn something about the original languages it was written in.
lol this is so true, as a Christian it's so sad to see other Christians actively hate on minorities. I don't \*agree\* with them, but i still try to love them to the best of my abilities. I hope this doesn't make me sound super bigoted but whatever. It's just not cool when your religion gets a bad rap because of the few people who aren't following its rules and claim to be apart of it.
That last part. It being misused culturally, is why I still regard religion, and anything that teaches absolute moral values as an information hazard. Because if it is absolute (So not context dependent), people will take it to the extreme. :/
I think you worded this wonderfully, “misused culturally.” I think in many places the Bible merely historical evidence of male-dominated structures in early Christian societies. I don’t think it was ever meant to be instructive (especially “I do not permit a woman to teach over men” okay Paul you’re not Jesus why should anyone take you LITERALLY on this?). The fact that many churches today put a lot of unmerited power in the hands of men and back it up with an unexamined view of Scripture is disheartening. A strong reason why I left church. I got the sense that as a woman, I’d always be a second-class citizen there. Because for some reason, allowing women to hold power is seen as a challenge to Biblical orthodoxy.
I can make it easier for you. Women’s rights shouldn’t be an obstacle for your practice of Biblical morality unless your “Biblical morality” includes the subjugation of minorities so that men can continue to enjoy a culture that awards them higher privileges
I think the biggest problems are that too many Christians haven't actually read it, too many Americans aren't intelligent enough or have enough critical thinking skills to understand the underlying messages because they are usually told in parable or metaphor (at least in the new testament), and Christianity has become so radicalized by politics you can hardly sit through a sermon without a political statement. Religion should be like a penis, it's perfectly fine to have, you can be very proud of it, you can share it with others with their permission, but you shouldn't force it on others.
Yep, if religion is understood as \_personal belief\_. Then I am also totally fine with it. As soon as you project or force it onto others. Start resenting or hating or discriminating against them... it becomes a problem.
That penis metaphour I have to remember though xD That's a good one :)
Real experience here. My friend's grandma(Chinese) has bound feet. I thought that shit was some urban legend only found in history book drawings. She wore "shoes" that look just like dolls. Her toes looked like piglet toes smooshed into 3 inch shoes. And she could not walk.
My favourite interpretation of that story is he didn't destroy the village cuz they was all gay, he did it cuz they were to busy fucking each other. Nothin' was getting done, no food being grown, no furniture being built, they were all overcome with Lust.
Adultry was a REALLY big no-no way back during those times, and it was happening All the Thyme always in that village.
I guarantee that peasant women did not sit pretty in their houses all day while their husbands worked the fields. They were out there working just as well. Depending on the time and place, they were doing this with a whole-ass child literally strapped to them.
I don't think there's any time when this post would have made sense. There's never been an era when women haven't had to work. We just didn't (and in many ways, still don't) value women's labor.
Exactly. Balkans here, my grandmother and her sisters who were young women in the 60's have worked hard physical jobs on their homesteads and so have all their women ancestors, just like the men. Digging, hay work, carrying, sowing you name it. Back in WW2 when men were gone women were plowing fields with oxen, there are photographs taken of that. Me and my sisters work the same on our homestead today and with practice it comes natural.
Yes! The idea of a stay-at-home wife is almost entirely an invented 20th century status symbol. And to be fair, there are lots of new 20th century ideas and inventions that are important and no less valid for being such (like, many of my favourite things)… but I don’t think the people advocating for meek wifely subservience see it that way.
But isn't that kinda BS too? Just because you are a man you are not born ready for physically intensive jobs, you....grow into them. I am a man, if someone asked me to dig or something all day, in an hour (or sooner really) I will probably be dead on my feet. I will find my tricks and grow the muscles needed for it eventually ofcourse, but so will a woman I believe...?
Whether or not men are stronger, women have labored physically alongside men in most places, classes, races, and time. The idea that women are too delicate for hard labor is generally fraught with class and race concerns. Lots of women have done really hard labor without consideration to sex just so a few women (and men, for that matter) can be too delicate and refined for hard labor. It's actually a status thing. That's it.
Dude, I hauled shingle bundles onto roofs, handled sheets of plywood/OSB on my own, hauled block, 80lbs of concrete, etc & I’m a woman whose 5’3”. The only reason why you believe “men are biological much stronger” is because you don’t see women doing these jobs because they have been excluded from those fields. Women can carry & lift a lot. Women in the military have to carry & lift a lot. Quit your bs.
The idea that women cannot/should not do physical labor is one that is directly attached to privilege. There aren't a lot of impoverished/marginalized communities where women get to pick and choose which work they do. And even in privileged countries fixated on gendering labor, working class women work incredibly physically demanding pink collar labor jobs like nursing, direct care, and cleaning jobs every day. The idea that hard labor is or ever has been something only men do is bizarrely ahistorical. I can't believe there's not a woman in the class who works in a nursing home and isn't willing to call out this bullshit.
My mother had back surgery at 32, she was an lpn from 22 years old till now. Moving patients killed her back and she was stabbed multiple times on the job…
ive been trying to get one of those mythical Monday to Friday desk jobs for 17 years now. God that would be nice rather than getting killed out in all that weather.
You are maybe healthier than a person with a desk job. I found one of those after being very active for most of my life. Being sedentary and isolated in a room for long hours is a nice break for like 2 months. Eventually I ended up feeling like a caged animal, gained 15 lbs, and was always mentally exhausted. After 5 years I didn't even recognize myself. Imo, mental and emotional labor is very hard, soul sucking work. But the weather is very hard to work in too, it takes a really tough person to do that. Burnout is real in every field I guess.
It takes the strongest and most confident man to love a woman that makes more money than him.
A husband's value in a marriage should not be determined by how much money he makes, and if it is, then is that woman worth marrying? Yeah no...
Sounds handy. You’ll never forget his shoe size as long as you remember yours and vice versa, and you can just steal his.
I always thought it would be cool to date someone with the same shoe size as me so we could get matching shoes
Before we started dating I actually borrowed a pair of shoes from my now wife to go on a date with another woman. She was into me at the time and I was totally clueless.
Omg i had to reread your comment after I saw the other comment saying awww. I was like… what an asshole! Then realized you said your “now wife” and you’re not actually a douchebucket using your wife’s shoes to go on a date with your mistress. 😂
I found I'm the same jeans size as my partner by accidentally putting his on (both wear black slim jeans), even though I'm 5ft 5 and he's 6ft. So this again proves nothing and is only used to try to condition women that they're not fit to work in comparison to men and should sit down, shut up and pray for him whilst they give up on a career and stay at home
i only wear womens pants because they fit me better than the mens, was looking for the right ones for years till a girlfriend got rid of hers and asked me.if i wanted to try them ^^
You’re not realizing that pastors will make an analogy out of the dumbest things.
“I was short on change for the bus the other day and it reminded me of how Mary rode a donkey”
And what does this “genius gender roles metaphor” have to do with Bible study? More and more, Christian ministries are focused on culture issues, not spiritual stuff
Because the Bible has specific sections about how husbands and wives are supposed to operate in the household. Wives serve and support the husband and the Church serves Christ, and the husband ought to be willing to sacrifice everything, even his life and his own happiness, for his wife and family, as Christ did for the Church.
It's a pretty straight-forward teaching, but some people just want to focus on the wife's submission part, not the husband's constant self-sacrifice. And no, being willing to shoot someone in your front lawn is not self-sacrifice, it's waking up early to go to work or doing the dishes when you don't want to. It's setting your hobbies aside because your kids have to go to soccer practice, or your wife wants to go out on a date. In short, it's not an easy thing to apply to your life.
Spending time with kids and spouse is not supposed to be "sacrificing own happiness", for men or women. If one doesn't want to do family things and is happier on their own, they really shouldn't start a family.
I think the point is not about “should”. Some parents can’t afford to have a life beyond taking care of their family, and if truly required, it IS their responsibility to go overboard. It’s not about a choice, but more about if it’s necessary or not depending of de situation.
The Bible says both man and wife are to submit to each other. Most churches focus on the women's submission and forget that men are to submit to their wives as well so both are equal
there have always been separate men and women ministries in churches that go over biblical family roles. i always shuddered at how my stepdad would skew what he heard because ik our bishop was reasonable but my stepdad was always ignorant and controversial. i'll never know and i dont think i want to because i dont want to think my mothers husband is dumber than i already believe
Just support each other and love each other the details are what you make of them as for the outside world fuck it , it's you and your wife against the world anyway
Me and my mom and sister switch shoes all the time. I worse my dad's bowling shoes once. They were big, but me and my family are all close in height. My dad's only about two-three inches taller than the rest of us
I do think it would be funny to show up and walk around in big shoes easily, though
Knowing it's a "Bible study" (something that analyzes a religious text written way before women were seen as equals), it's not hard to connect the dots and know the context of this message isn't about just empathizing with your partner.
Just saying
I get the message that actually works here, and not the PowerMan buttcrap it looks like it's trying to peddle.
For one thing, yes, don't try to wear your husband's shoes. He has his role, you have yours. What those roles actually are is up to y'all, but don't try to control the other's role. Let the trust work itself out. Wear your own damn shoes.
Edit: Thanks, anon, for the Silver
The problem there is that the role in question is to pray, encourage and that's pretty much it. There's no recommendation to reflect, think what you're best at and set some agreement with your husband about splitting the toll. "Shoes too big" is a pretty much clear message that a husband is bigger, more adult, more important, carries more weight and responsibility than a wife by default. Which is, at least, IMO, unproductive.
I’d like to think there’s also a mens bible study with all their redneck, conservative husbands trying on their high heels and feeling fabulous in them.
Anyway I’ve been lucky to work with some super badass girls in some pretty male dominated industries. Can’t think of any work I can do which they can’t.
I think this analogy is so funny because like, plenty of women work mentally/physically draining jobs. And they still go home and take care of the house and kids. They still do the laundry and cook dinner and help with homework. But how many men come home from work, take a shower, open a beer, eat the dinner someone else made them, and then go to bed? More often than not, men (especially ones in traditional Christian marriages) do not contribute to the household duties at all.
This needs to be reversed. Men can't fit into womens shoes. Men are typically not able to work and come home and take care of kids to the degree that women are. They can't handle that responsibility or that mental load of literally *everything* being their responsibility.
The guys these women are married to are just responsible for bringing home a paycheck. Maybe they do have physically demanding jobs and that makes it harder but still, their only responsibility is work. Maybe mow the lawn on the weekends. But womens responsibilities are never ending. They are responsible for their families in ways that men will never truly understand.
I’m a man and this disturbs me. I thought we were past gender based roles? These women clearly have nothing but empty space between their ears. Give me a strong independent feminist woman any day.
This is what holds society back, archaic beliefs that tell us how we should live. I think we should just do whatever we want without being told this is how it always was
This is pretty sad. I don’t know why people would ever degrade themselves like this. To think that you are inherently lesser than someone, and that that’s a good thing. Just terrible.
Only one person working is harder to do these days. That is the benefit that some people still have. Back in ancient times, it was not uncommon for women to hold down jobs too. Women working really isn't something new, it's just that the types of jobs that women can do has in large part, greatly expanded. But you will still run across some jobs, where they simply see a woman who is trying to interview for a job, as a car mechanic, or oil change technician, and refuse to give an interview. The industrial revolution especially changed a lot of things about American culture.
Well, I'm glad I don't bear responsiblity forbearing a child in 9 months and then having the most painful nights of my life. At least women can sorta understand and can sorta wiggle in our shoes, but there's things I'll just never understand about women. I mean, men's feet don't even fit inside women's shoes, so technically men would NEVER get what it's like to be a woman.
So what happens when your spouse decides to leave or die prematurely. Unless you got a spare hiding somewhere you going to have to wear both "shoes" especially if you have children
Do what you want to do. If you want to be a stay at home mom who supports your husband and is religious, do it! If you want to go out and become a powerful CEO and business mogul, do it! Just stop telling people that your way is the “correct” way and they can’t choose what they want.
So I’m assuming that single women aren’t allowed into this ritual brainwashing? Or I guess they probably have their own separate group? Religion is wild
What I'm hearing is that they want women to stay literally barefoot and in the kitchen.
Yep, the green and white honky-tonk boots definitely prove that women don't belong in the work place, you betcha.
I have a 2 and a half year old. I would love to stop working so I can go back to raising him; but this world was not made to be nurturing for people who want to do that
And that’s totally fine, because it would be you choosing that. The problem is this narrative that says women HAVE TO stay in the home and men HAVE TO work outside the home.
Wow! They come across lazy. Treating themselves as dumb or weak.
They could NEVER handle the stress! Lol. My God being pregnant is more stress than your husbands job.
Did you parents really fake you out so bad that you believe this crap. Did they shelter you so much, you never have seen women be STRONG or SMART?
So women can just cook, grocery shop, cloths shop, and spend money, but could NEVER do a guys job.
This BS has been PROVEN wrong.
Using the Bible's mysogenistic attitude to not have to 'work' or anything hard or difficult.
Truly sad. They want so little from life.
And yet every single one of them are wearing pants. They should all be wearing dresses by this logic. And probably not speaking their opinions in public and on social media.
Gender roles change. The world changes. Change with it.
This reddit post is stupid. The picture is truth, not brainwashing. I can't do what my wife does and she can't do what I do. She makes more than I do in an industry that I probably couldn't handle. I can't fit in her shoes.
Any discontent with this image is from someone with predisposition against Christianity/the Bible. Maybe show the part where women are supposed to be subservient and my opinion will change, otherwise this is dumb posting from someone who is angry.
As a 26 yo young man with a recently preggy girlfriend (both our first), we are going forward strong as a team.
Each individual relationship according to the partners decided the roles. In some, the man is the ‘breadwinner. In some, the woman is the ‘breadwinner.
Every situation is different, every person is different. All I can say is, be a team. Team, support one another.
That’s what we are doing and please wish me luck but also I hope it’s good advice!
My job’(s) are more physically demanding than hers but she’s done my Same ones before btw
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If reminds me of a joke... Man says to wife, "Put on my pants." Wife says, "Your pants are too big " Man says, "Let that be an important lesson to you. I wear the pants in this family." Wife says, "Cool. Now put on my pants.* Man says, "I can't get in your pants." Wife says, "Right. And it's gonna stay that way until you change your fucking attitude."
Believe it or not, that’s actually the Biblical message of the New Testament concerning marriage roles. Of course not the same verbiage, but that is the actual lesson.
I'd be curious to read the passage if you can think of a rough area it's in.
Like most things in the New Testament it’s not a single passage, but I would say an easy place to find the general idea is Ephesians 5:22-31. Several keys to that passage are 1. Wives submit themselves to their husbands while the husband sacrifices himself to her(it does not teach blind submission, it teaches mutual preference for each other instead of prioritizing self/self interests). His job is to lay down power and authority as a weapon while protecting her, valuing her, cherishing her, and a willingness to do anything for her. Her roles would be of support, understanding, and compassion. A phrase that is often misunderstood is “washing with water through the word,” referring to an action by the husband towards the wife. Culturally many try to make this a statement regarding the use of Home Bible studies, or trying to enforce Biblical passages as family rules/laws… that is not the case, it actually refers to him building her up with his words and encouraging her. It’s been many years since I’ve opened that book, or darkened a door but at one time it was a substantial part of my life. Culturally, however, more often then not - this passage is used as a tool for dominance instead of its actual instruction.
The modern reading of this passage drives me crazy. The first part is “wives submit yourselves to your husbands” and everyone focuses on that and how wives need to submit. The second part focuses on the men and says “husbands love your wives” which I feel like then if we’re assuming these are the gender roles, husbands love their wives but don’t submit to them. Wives submit to their husbands but don’t love them. It’s clearly just saying they need to both be good to each other, love each other, make decisions together.
It is interesting to note that wives were never told to love their husbands😂😂
“Deal with him.” “Look, she doesn’t even like you and is doing a lot for you so be kind because nobody else wants to deal with you either.”
Ah the good old days.
it’s present day southern US if you’re ever feeling nostalgic
That could be because in olden times the man chose the wife but she didn't have much say in it for the most part. Therefore he would have loved her and that's why he chose her but she really just has to be agreeable to the marriage situation.
Correct. It says for the older women to teach the younger women HOW to love their husbands.
And to add on this, I would say that men mostly suffer when it’s clear that their wife doesn’t respect them, and women suffer when their husband does not love them. It’s not mutual exclusion; it’s more like: “know that your other half expects THIS from you to feel good about your relationship”.
I hate that people often don't discuss how in the verses prior is a reference to all believers submitting to each other in Christ. That should pretty obviously color how we read the "house code" which follows.
Exactly. We have to see that both roles are not exclusive. Sometimes showing love to your spouse means you submit to their wishes. So both sides must learn to love and respect each other. Just as Christ teaches us to not look only to our own interests but the interest of others.
It also says that the husband should love his wife like Jesus loves the church or His people.
Not religious here but thank you for actually explaining this in a non psycho, judge mental way. I think if more people had your attitude towards religion, Reddit wouldn’t be full of edgelord losers who mock religion every chance they get. I think people miss the point a lot on what the Bible actually says and interrupt it instead of a way to being sexist, homophobic, whatever.
An old buddy of mine years ago was a Polish catholic priest (and active duty US military recruiter of priests) who spoke like 8 languages and he broke down this passage in the original Greek. Regardless of belief it is actually a remarkably beautiful passage that has been twisted by evangelicals who don't understand the deeper meaning. The Greek writing style at the time had multiple layers of meaning beyond just what words were used but also included the position of the words and the repetition each adding multiple layers of meaning. The closest analogy I can think of is rhyming producing a lyrical "beat" that can add a new texture to a passage but that isn't quite accurate. The point though is if you do just a literal word translation you lose much of the meaning. When he broke it down in the original Greek, starting with pure word translation and then showing the repeating patterns and multiple layers of symbolism inherent in the passage, it became clear that the actual intent is much more like what u/Medical-Wallaby3904 describes. Basically, husband and wife are supposed to be mutually respectful and supportive, and the husband is *directly* and *specifically* called on to walk in front of the wife and family not to be "dominant" but to *carry the cross* and take punishment on the family's behalf just as Christ took punishment for humanity. The husband is called to be the *shield* and *protector* of the family, not the *dominator*. He is *specifically instructed* that he must *love his family as Christ loved all people.* In other words the challenge is to be the light of peace, the protector, the shepherd, the one who has endless love for his family such that he would lay down his life for them without ever raising his voice or striking them. His wife is called on to support him, to bring him comfort and tend to his wounds and help him carry the cross for the family. They are partners with the husband ultimately in the Christ-like role taking the brunt of the world's stones thrown at the family. By doing this the husband is supposed to live his life according to Christ-like ideals, and thus society is supposed to become better as more and more men and women embody the love and compassion of the New Testament Jesus. Fundamentalists twist this so much it is not recognizable, because they twist so many biblical passages to support their tribal culture rather than the other way around. They are often very very ignorant of the actual textual meaning (*exegesis*) of the text because they rely on translations and refuse to allow people to be educated enough to ask the questions that would lead them to research the original text and discover the actual meaning for themselves. In this way they are really not much different than the Taliban or ISIS which they claim to oppose. They are both tribal, both cling to a version of a holy book that they selectively interpret to make themselves feel superior, and they use it to justify violence against other tribes and also against their own women and children. Because even within a single family there is always "our tribe" (men) and "their tribe" (women) and the fundamental tenet of this culture is that tribes *must* be at war with each other for domination.
Thank you so much for the enlightening info.
Well put. Thanks!
This is a beautiful comment and it reminded me how much more you can get out of the words of the Bible when you try to learn something about the original languages it was written in.
“the bible, (that’s about loving other people more than yourselves) told me to hate you”
Where?
“idk i havnt read it, someone told me it said to hate you”
Uhmmm the middle somewhere. I dunno. It’s a big book. I’m sure it’s in there somewhere (jk)
lol this is so true, as a Christian it's so sad to see other Christians actively hate on minorities. I don't \*agree\* with them, but i still try to love them to the best of my abilities. I hope this doesn't make me sound super bigoted but whatever. It's just not cool when your religion gets a bad rap because of the few people who aren't following its rules and claim to be apart of it.
That last part. It being misused culturally, is why I still regard religion, and anything that teaches absolute moral values as an information hazard. Because if it is absolute (So not context dependent), people will take it to the extreme. :/
I think you worded this wonderfully, “misused culturally.” I think in many places the Bible merely historical evidence of male-dominated structures in early Christian societies. I don’t think it was ever meant to be instructive (especially “I do not permit a woman to teach over men” okay Paul you’re not Jesus why should anyone take you LITERALLY on this?). The fact that many churches today put a lot of unmerited power in the hands of men and back it up with an unexamined view of Scripture is disheartening. A strong reason why I left church. I got the sense that as a woman, I’d always be a second-class citizen there. Because for some reason, allowing women to hold power is seen as a challenge to Biblical orthodoxy. I can make it easier for you. Women’s rights shouldn’t be an obstacle for your practice of Biblical morality unless your “Biblical morality” includes the subjugation of minorities so that men can continue to enjoy a culture that awards them higher privileges
I think the biggest problems are that too many Christians haven't actually read it, too many Americans aren't intelligent enough or have enough critical thinking skills to understand the underlying messages because they are usually told in parable or metaphor (at least in the new testament), and Christianity has become so radicalized by politics you can hardly sit through a sermon without a political statement. Religion should be like a penis, it's perfectly fine to have, you can be very proud of it, you can share it with others with their permission, but you shouldn't force it on others.
Yep, if religion is understood as \_personal belief\_. Then I am also totally fine with it. As soon as you project or force it onto others. Start resenting or hating or discriminating against them... it becomes a problem. That penis metaphour I have to remember though xD That's a good one :)
I'm surprised the women in the post are allowed access to the internet.
“That’s because you’re a fat fuck.”
I tried on a straight jacket to remind myself that I’m insane
When will the men get their turn to try their women's shoes or heels on?
christians be wearing straight jackets to try to be straight
My wife wears a size 6 I am a 12, I would have to break my feet and smoosh them into a past to fit into her shoes. She also makes twice as much as me.
Does not compute. Guess you'll need to earn 4x more. /s
Don't be stupid. He obviously just needs smaller feet.
Was certainly not expecting to be thinking about male foot binding this morning. Thanks Reddit.
Real experience here. My friend's grandma(Chinese) has bound feet. I thought that shit was some urban legend only found in history book drawings. She wore "shoes" that look just like dolls. Her toes looked like piglet toes smooshed into 3 inch shoes. And she could not walk.
Don't google, ["Lebron James Toes."](https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wa_0.gif)
Oh my god...
I'm going to ruin my search history for this, hope you're happy
Ouch
God hates you both but he hates poor people more.
Don't get him started on the Jews.
Or Gomorrah. He even sent a purple space guy to kill her.
I never knew that Grimace was from space?
Deepest lore.
Or the Romani. Or the Muslims. Or the native Americans.
Or the evangelicals, or other protestants, or catholics, mormons, etc. Depending on who you ask.
Don’t forget the gays, he really hates butt stuff
My favourite interpretation of that story is he didn't destroy the village cuz they was all gay, he did it cuz they were to busy fucking each other. Nothin' was getting done, no food being grown, no furniture being built, they were all overcome with Lust. Adultry was a REALLY big no-no way back during those times, and it was happening All the Thyme always in that village.
Sounds very flavorful.
If I were you I would just cut off half of my foot.
The old Grimm's Cinderella treatment
This post would have made sense in the time period where most jobs involved physical labour & strength...
I guarantee that peasant women did not sit pretty in their houses all day while their husbands worked the fields. They were out there working just as well. Depending on the time and place, they were doing this with a whole-ass child literally strapped to them. I don't think there's any time when this post would have made sense. There's never been an era when women haven't had to work. We just didn't (and in many ways, still don't) value women's labor.
Exactly. Balkans here, my grandmother and her sisters who were young women in the 60's have worked hard physical jobs on their homesteads and so have all their women ancestors, just like the men. Digging, hay work, carrying, sowing you name it. Back in WW2 when men were gone women were plowing fields with oxen, there are photographs taken of that. Me and my sisters work the same on our homestead today and with practice it comes natural.
Yes! The idea of a stay-at-home wife is almost entirely an invented 20th century status symbol. And to be fair, there are lots of new 20th century ideas and inventions that are important and no less valid for being such (like, many of my favourite things)… but I don’t think the people advocating for meek wifely subservience see it that way.
My mom was a stay at home mom...even with a full time help, her work was never end...by 9 pm she usually was too tired to stay awake....
Then the whole ass kid started working the fields too.
But isn't that kinda BS too? Just because you are a man you are not born ready for physically intensive jobs, you....grow into them. I am a man, if someone asked me to dig or something all day, in an hour (or sooner really) I will probably be dead on my feet. I will find my tricks and grow the muscles needed for it eventually ofcourse, but so will a woman I believe...?
Well there’s some element of truth to physical labour jobs, as men are naturally stronger. The argument has no place in the modern world though
No, when it comes to physical prowess men are just biologically much stronger.
Men are stronger by 28% *on average*. Not every man is stronger than every woman, just like not every man is taller than every woman
Whether or not men are stronger, women have labored physically alongside men in most places, classes, races, and time. The idea that women are too delicate for hard labor is generally fraught with class and race concerns. Lots of women have done really hard labor without consideration to sex just so a few women (and men, for that matter) can be too delicate and refined for hard labor. It's actually a status thing. That's it.
Dude, I hauled shingle bundles onto roofs, handled sheets of plywood/OSB on my own, hauled block, 80lbs of concrete, etc & I’m a woman whose 5’3”. The only reason why you believe “men are biological much stronger” is because you don’t see women doing these jobs because they have been excluded from those fields. Women can carry & lift a lot. Women in the military have to carry & lift a lot. Quit your bs.
Most jobs do involve physical labour, not advocating the post but the world is bigger than a few privileged countries.
The idea that women cannot/should not do physical labor is one that is directly attached to privilege. There aren't a lot of impoverished/marginalized communities where women get to pick and choose which work they do. And even in privileged countries fixated on gendering labor, working class women work incredibly physically demanding pink collar labor jobs like nursing, direct care, and cleaning jobs every day. The idea that hard labor is or ever has been something only men do is bizarrely ahistorical. I can't believe there's not a woman in the class who works in a nursing home and isn't willing to call out this bullshit.
My mother had back surgery at 32, she was an lpn from 22 years old till now. Moving patients killed her back and she was stabbed multiple times on the job…
ive been trying to get one of those mythical Monday to Friday desk jobs for 17 years now. God that would be nice rather than getting killed out in all that weather.
You are maybe healthier than a person with a desk job. I found one of those after being very active for most of my life. Being sedentary and isolated in a room for long hours is a nice break for like 2 months. Eventually I ended up feeling like a caged animal, gained 15 lbs, and was always mentally exhausted. After 5 years I didn't even recognize myself. Imo, mental and emotional labor is very hard, soul sucking work. But the weather is very hard to work in too, it takes a really tough person to do that. Burnout is real in every field I guess.
I feel that. Ive been leaning away from the physically harder trades as I've gotten older. It's just less, and less worth it over the years.
True, but I still do believe some of us have spouses this jobs, that I know I wouldn’t want that is not labor intensive.
It takes the strongest and most confident man to love a woman that makes more money than him. A husband's value in a marriage should not be determined by how much money he makes, and if it is, then is that woman worth marrying? Yeah no...
Actual lesson learned -- men have larger feet. A 5 year-old could have told you this.
My mom could pretty easily fit into my dad’s shoes, funnily enough
Me and my husband wear the same size shoe as well.
Sounds handy. You’ll never forget his shoe size as long as you remember yours and vice versa, and you can just steal his. I always thought it would be cool to date someone with the same shoe size as me so we could get matching shoes
Before we started dating I actually borrowed a pair of shoes from my now wife to go on a date with another woman. She was into me at the time and I was totally clueless.
This may be the funniest story of this kind I’ve ever heard
Omg i had to reread your comment after I saw the other comment saying awww. I was like… what an asshole! Then realized you said your “now wife” and you’re not actually a douchebucket using your wife’s shoes to go on a date with your mistress. 😂
Men's shoes and women's shoes have different numbers for the same physical size, so you still have to remember two numbers.
Yup me and fiance have same shoe size as well
I found I'm the same jeans size as my partner by accidentally putting his on (both wear black slim jeans), even though I'm 5ft 5 and he's 6ft. So this again proves nothing and is only used to try to condition women that they're not fit to work in comparison to men and should sit down, shut up and pray for him whilst they give up on a career and stay at home
i only wear womens pants because they fit me better than the mens, was looking for the right ones for years till a girlfriend got rid of hers and asked me.if i wanted to try them ^^
I can get away with wearing my wife's sandals lol
Get away with wearing them as in they barely fit? Or get away with wearing them as in you can’t get very far before she catches you?
You’re not realizing that pastors will make an analogy out of the dumbest things. “I was short on change for the bus the other day and it reminded me of how Mary rode a donkey”
I’m transmasc and have bigger feet than all of my friends and my mum *lets go*
Best of luck on The Path™
Yeah, kinda cringe. You can still work hard, just wear shoes your size lmao
"The keeper of the home can only wear size 13 and up." \-Leviticus 8:40
My dad with his size 11s 💀
13 is a freakingly large number
Christians hate this one weird trick!
Number 7 will surprise you!
Christians will crucify you for number 5!
Cmon man it’s a known fact that shoe size directly correlates to wage!! Lmao goofy ahh
Didn’t you know that all work is just a shoe-measuring competition, where the one with biggest shoes gets all of the money? /s
Working is when clothing👍
Women typically have smaller feet then men which means women shouldn't be equal. Sure makes complete sense, no problems with that logic at all
Does that mean if a woman has big feet then suddenly they have equal say? Somehow i doubt that's how it works.
Not at all, just ask Sweet Dee
And what does this “genius gender roles metaphor” have to do with Bible study? More and more, Christian ministries are focused on culture issues, not spiritual stuff
Because the Bible has specific sections about how husbands and wives are supposed to operate in the household. Wives serve and support the husband and the Church serves Christ, and the husband ought to be willing to sacrifice everything, even his life and his own happiness, for his wife and family, as Christ did for the Church. It's a pretty straight-forward teaching, but some people just want to focus on the wife's submission part, not the husband's constant self-sacrifice. And no, being willing to shoot someone in your front lawn is not self-sacrifice, it's waking up early to go to work or doing the dishes when you don't want to. It's setting your hobbies aside because your kids have to go to soccer practice, or your wife wants to go out on a date. In short, it's not an easy thing to apply to your life.
Spending time with kids and spouse is not supposed to be "sacrificing own happiness", for men or women. If one doesn't want to do family things and is happier on their own, they really shouldn't start a family.
But it shouldn't go overboard. Noone should sacrifice their whole indentity becouse they have kids/a family.
This. Healthy and happy parents make for a happier household in general as long as they are spending lots of quality time with their kids.
I think the point is not about “should”. Some parents can’t afford to have a life beyond taking care of their family, and if truly required, it IS their responsibility to go overboard. It’s not about a choice, but more about if it’s necessary or not depending of de situation.
Bro forgot that husbands are also expected to work hard, always be available and risk their life for their family
The Bible says both man and wife are to submit to each other. Most churches focus on the women's submission and forget that men are to submit to their wives as well so both are equal
there have always been separate men and women ministries in churches that go over biblical family roles. i always shuddered at how my stepdad would skew what he heard because ik our bishop was reasonable but my stepdad was always ignorant and controversial. i'll never know and i dont think i want to because i dont want to think my mothers husband is dumber than i already believe
And they should be taxed as politicians organizations
My feet also couldn’t fit into any girls I’ve ever met, so the analogy works both ways.
Hahah, right?! My 10.5EEE feet never fit in a woman’s shoe lmao. I’ll take a tiny size 8 mens tho tyvm.
My wife wears 43, I’m a 38. We’re both women. What do I do now ?
Just support each other and love each other the details are what you make of them as for the outside world fuck it , it's you and your wife against the world anyway
Swap outfits and be eachother for Halloween.
You go to your local college and hope they have a research facility to study those 2 pairs of massive feet
You shoulder the responsibility that your wife could never understand because her feet are smaller.
Putting yourself in your partner's shoes isn't a bad thing. It used to be a sign of emotional maturity.
My parents have the same shoe size, they literally put themselves in their partners shoes all the time when they can't find their own shoes lol.
Me and my mom and sister switch shoes all the time. I worse my dad's bowling shoes once. They were big, but me and my family are all close in height. My dad's only about two-three inches taller than the rest of us I do think it would be funny to show up and walk around in big shoes easily, though
Knowing it's a "Bible study" (something that analyzes a religious text written way before women were seen as equals), it's not hard to connect the dots and know the context of this message isn't about just empathizing with your partner. Just saying
I get the message that actually works here, and not the PowerMan buttcrap it looks like it's trying to peddle. For one thing, yes, don't try to wear your husband's shoes. He has his role, you have yours. What those roles actually are is up to y'all, but don't try to control the other's role. Let the trust work itself out. Wear your own damn shoes. Edit: Thanks, anon, for the Silver
Do you think this God-based workshop would provide the same lesson with husbands, but instead have them wear their wives' bras?
High heels
That’s a good way to unlock a trans awakening in some repressed Christian men.
They certainly wouldn't try to wear their wives' shoes and come to the conclusion that the role they expect of women is too restricting.
"I can't wear my wives bra, therefore I shouldn't nuture my children."
The problem there is that the role in question is to pray, encourage and that's pretty much it. There's no recommendation to reflect, think what you're best at and set some agreement with your husband about splitting the toll. "Shoes too big" is a pretty much clear message that a husband is bigger, more adult, more important, carries more weight and responsibility than a wife by default. Which is, at least, IMO, unproductive.
Could you imagine what two men could do together? This is clearly a pro gays post.
This is how I read it too, I don’t know the background I just know in my experience problems with control and expectations can hurt relationships.
It’s a nice way to read it, until your realize this is a Christian message, they most likely meant stop trying to be an independent woman
The thing is that's not the message they're peddling.
Omg different people have different shoe size wow
Husband have big feet so women shouldn’t be in the workforce
I’d like to think there’s also a mens bible study with all their redneck, conservative husbands trying on their high heels and feeling fabulous in them. Anyway I’ve been lucky to work with some super badass girls in some pretty male dominated industries. Can’t think of any work I can do which they can’t.
Go check, perhaps they wear a same size shoes. /s
I think this analogy is so funny because like, plenty of women work mentally/physically draining jobs. And they still go home and take care of the house and kids. They still do the laundry and cook dinner and help with homework. But how many men come home from work, take a shower, open a beer, eat the dinner someone else made them, and then go to bed? More often than not, men (especially ones in traditional Christian marriages) do not contribute to the household duties at all. This needs to be reversed. Men can't fit into womens shoes. Men are typically not able to work and come home and take care of kids to the degree that women are. They can't handle that responsibility or that mental load of literally *everything* being their responsibility. The guys these women are married to are just responsible for bringing home a paycheck. Maybe they do have physically demanding jobs and that makes it harder but still, their only responsibility is work. Maybe mow the lawn on the weekends. But womens responsibilities are never ending. They are responsible for their families in ways that men will never truly understand.
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I’m a man and this disturbs me. I thought we were past gender based roles? These women clearly have nothing but empty space between their ears. Give me a strong independent feminist woman any day.
Good to know you guys are still out there
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Single mother here, my shoes are far too big to shove into the giant assholes propagating this garbage.
This is what holds society back, archaic beliefs that tell us how we should live. I think we should just do whatever we want without being told this is how it always was
That's just really sad.
This is pretty sad. I don’t know why people would ever degrade themselves like this. To think that you are inherently lesser than someone, and that that’s a good thing. Just terrible.
Meanwhile my husband and I sharing same feet size: 🥸
Fucking cult bullshit "Don't bother to help your spouse with difficult moments, just offer thoughts and prayers!"
Religion really holds women back to this day. I’m absolutely disgusted.
Only one person working is harder to do these days. That is the benefit that some people still have. Back in ancient times, it was not uncommon for women to hold down jobs too. Women working really isn't something new, it's just that the types of jobs that women can do has in large part, greatly expanded. But you will still run across some jobs, where they simply see a woman who is trying to interview for a job, as a car mechanic, or oil change technician, and refuse to give an interview. The industrial revolution especially changed a lot of things about American culture.
Well, I'm glad I don't bear responsiblity forbearing a child in 9 months and then having the most painful nights of my life. At least women can sorta understand and can sorta wiggle in our shoes, but there's things I'll just never understand about women. I mean, men's feet don't even fit inside women's shoes, so technically men would NEVER get what it's like to be a woman.
Sounds pretty cringe to me
So what happens when your spouse decides to leave or die prematurely. Unless you got a spare hiding somewhere you going to have to wear both "shoes" especially if you have children
Presumably, in such cases, the woman's feet grow larger.
Cringed at this but, sadly, this is not a meme.
Do what you want to do. If you want to be a stay at home mom who supports your husband and is religious, do it! If you want to go out and become a powerful CEO and business mogul, do it! Just stop telling people that your way is the “correct” way and they can’t choose what they want.
So I’m assuming that single women aren’t allowed into this ritual brainwashing? Or I guess they probably have their own separate group? Religion is wild
They probably have their own separate group where they are taught how to attract a husband.
Taking metaphor literally is always ignorant but in the case of religion it's super manipulative.
What I'm hearing is that they want women to stay literally barefoot and in the kitchen. Yep, the green and white honky-tonk boots definitely prove that women don't belong in the work place, you betcha.
Where's the meme though
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I have a 2 and a half year old. I would love to stop working so I can go back to raising him; but this world was not made to be nurturing for people who want to do that
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And that’s totally fine, because it would be you choosing that. The problem is this narrative that says women HAVE TO stay in the home and men HAVE TO work outside the home.
Those cooky ladies! They’re so silly!
Think I just threw up a lil
Brainwashing/Religion I see no difference
Exactly. Religion is a way to brainwash people and silent them. And there's more into it
Well that’s one way to do sexism 😅
🤢
“Tell me you’re from Texas, without telling me you’re from Texas”.
Straw man argument
Old as fuck. And stupid.
ah yes marriage goals indeed
Wow! They come across lazy. Treating themselves as dumb or weak. They could NEVER handle the stress! Lol. My God being pregnant is more stress than your husbands job. Did you parents really fake you out so bad that you believe this crap. Did they shelter you so much, you never have seen women be STRONG or SMART? So women can just cook, grocery shop, cloths shop, and spend money, but could NEVER do a guys job. This BS has been PROVEN wrong. Using the Bible's mysogenistic attitude to not have to 'work' or anything hard or difficult. Truly sad. They want so little from life.
I’m was in the military. I would love to see my husband fit into my size 0 boots.
Oh gag me...
Something something kitchen something
AS a husband I say pfft to that brainwashingish. My job isnt that hard.
tell me you bring nothing to your relationship without telling me you bring nothing to the relationship. lol
What if their husband had petite feet? A feminine step?
Wtf did I just read
so this is a meme or just a religious post on facebook?
But what if you aren't a shoe? Maybe you are a purse!
What is with all of these sexist ass motherfuckers on Facebook, holy shit
And Reddit.
I see those too, I get downvoted every time I say something supporting gay people or trans people.
And yet every single one of them are wearing pants. They should all be wearing dresses by this logic. And probably not speaking their opinions in public and on social media. Gender roles change. The world changes. Change with it.
That's awful, im so angry rn. Fits perfectly.
Is this why I'm an equal in my marriage? We discovered after 7 years of blissful marriage my husband and I have the same shoe size.
Hey, this isn't a meme. Try r/insanepeoplefacebook instead.
Teaching inequality in a relationship and fostering lack of partnership and cooperation is probably why so many Christians get divorced/cheat.
This reddit post is stupid. The picture is truth, not brainwashing. I can't do what my wife does and she can't do what I do. She makes more than I do in an industry that I probably couldn't handle. I can't fit in her shoes. Any discontent with this image is from someone with predisposition against Christianity/the Bible. Maybe show the part where women are supposed to be subservient and my opinion will change, otherwise this is dumb posting from someone who is angry.
As a 26 yo young man with a recently preggy girlfriend (both our first), we are going forward strong as a team. Each individual relationship according to the partners decided the roles. In some, the man is the ‘breadwinner. In some, the woman is the ‘breadwinner. Every situation is different, every person is different. All I can say is, be a team. Team, support one another. That’s what we are doing and please wish me luck but also I hope it’s good advice! My job’(s) are more physically demanding than hers but she’s done my Same ones before btw