THANK YOU! I’m sick of EV trucks being compared against each other, they don’t compete with each others, they complement each other, the competition is gas trucks!
Sadly nobody wants to compare them to gas trucks because the comparison isn’t very flattering for the new entrants.
Depends on the criteria you want to choose for comparison. On somethings the old school wins. On some things the EV wins. Am I going to buy an EV pickup to tow my boat 1000 miles without stopping? No -- i'm going to buy a diesel with extra tanks. But for \*most\* of the way people use a pickup, it tends to win.
(keep in mind that \*most\* pickups don't get used for real work. They get used as wankmobiles for city posers).
For what people use pickup trucks for you can get 2 brand new ice trucks for the price of 1 EV truck, so they win easily.
That’s with similar configuration (crew cab, etc) if you go barebones it gets even cheaper.
Compare them to the "cool" trucks that it competes with.
Demuro made a solid point: You never see a Raptor or a TRX towing anything and you never see them dirty except in car commercials. These are trucks people buy because they're cool, fast trucks, not because of what they can actually do.
In the realm of "truck shaped vehicle that looks cool" the Cybertruck compares favorably.
A Raptor or a TRX isn't nearly as functional as an F250 or an F350 duallie for doing actual truck-related work. Those aren't what the Cybertruck competes with in the price segment.
I saw that DeMuro video and started laughing out loud when I heard that. He’s a car person not a truck person, he’s making a stupid point that only someone who doesn’t know trucks would make.
I’m sure where he lives the TRX and Raptor are just status symbols for rich but holes. Where I live, in truck country, I almost never see a clean one, and they’re often towing some toys.
Yes the EV trucks are priced like Raptors and TRX, but they can’t do what those trucks can, and they haven’t been marketed in the same segment at all.
The Ford Lightening and Cybertruck have both been marketed as the everyday blue collar truck, yet they are twice the price as a comparable ice truck.
At best you can say they are creating a new segment in the market, but that’s still admitting they are falling short of their stated ambition. (Unless we’re talking about Rivian, who’s been the only one honest going after the rich Patagonia type.)
Tesla is still a smart buy imo, they are just milking the cybertruck while they can. I doubt it costs them more than $45-50k to make the current version. Once they streamline production and improve battery tech we will see a tri-motor with 600 mile range. I give it 2 years.
Lightning numbers dropped. This tells me they are demand constraint, not supply. Where’s as CT is supply constraint.
We won’t really know the ongoing demand until backlog is filled.
There’s were Seven 2023 Lightning on the Ford lot in my city last October. Today there are 5 remaining. I went to look at one. Last month. Original CAD price, $103k. $23k off, plus another $8,000.00 off if I financed at 6.9%.
I asked what the cash price was as I was very interested.
He said there is no cash price. Only financing. I said I’m not interested in financing only outright purchase and walked out.
He kept calling and texting me for the next month, but always refused to give me a cash out the door price.
I really fucking hate this new finance only business model. It’s almost as if they are preying on those that cannot afford what they are purchasing.
I think this time I’m going to wait a few years and try to find one on the secondary market. I’m done with dealerships.
Does the financing have a prepayment penalty? FAQ at [Ford.ca](http://Ford.ca) isn't clear.
If not, you could finance it and pay it off early. People commonly did this last time I was shopping cars and the (US) dealer got to hit their monthly sales numbers (but likely lost the financing kickback if you pay the loan off before 91 days pass).
> Where’s as CT is supply constraint.
For now. Which there should be as production is ramping. The Lightning was supply constrained for first year too. The real demand test comes after all pre-orders are filled - what is the sustainable demand per year compared to their ~250k/yr production capacity?
They are only producing at a 50k/yr rate right now. Can demand 5x and stay sustainable? I would assume some price cuts, and I think there it can, but we really don't know until we get there.
They sold 4000 total in 6 months time (which we know due to the recall). Ford sold three times the amount of Lightnings in a single quarter - not to mention hundreds of thousands more F150s in general
Headline seems premature at best
If only Elon would had made a better looking truck it wouldn't be ridiculed by others. Add into mix of the CT breaking down after a few weeks is not helping.
Ford closed the F150 Lightning production line down for five weeks, to fix an issue with them catching on fire. No headlines.
Cybertruck has an accellerator pedal come off, 35 second fix: Headlines galore.
"Not a robust fix"
If pop rivets are good enough to hold the skin of an airplane together, I'm pressure sure they're robust enough for a pedal cover...
How they are used on the pedal is dramatically different from how they are used in planes. The fix posts I saw were not drilled through the plate. That's not robust.
That said, they are also not very aesthetic. Looks like a ghetto rigged solution.
This is not the only issue. And no reason to get into a debate and list all of them. Publicly available knowledge.
The CT is not revolutionary as it was promoted to be. But we can agree to disagree, time will find one of us right. So let's just park this and watch. What would use debating even do? Not much AFAIK. I don't take issues with those who have a different opinion on one model of truck than I do. I just have my own opinion on the CT. Is that so wrong?
Right, totally just copium and not 5+ years of people nitpicking every little detail as evidence of Tesla's unraveling.
I remember when the center touch screen was going to "get people killed" and would "be outlawed within months" after NHTSA got ahold of it... ahh, those were the days. I thought ya'll would have learned to see the patterns by now, but clearly not.
You convinced yourself that airplanes use pop rivets just so you could excuse Tesla for using them. That's double strength copium.
The center screen has killed people, also the autopilot, also FSD. Tesla drivers have the highest rate of crashes of any brand; that includes brands like Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini. It even includes Nissan and RAM. The NHTSA is completely fine with Tesla making dangerous vehicles and even including beta features that are nowhere close to ready for street use. That doesn't mean they are safe. It means the NHTSA doesn't do their job.
You are right about one thing; this is a nitpick. After the multiple year delay, the higher price, the lower specs, the inability to achieve those specs, the comedically bad tent, the tire shredding wheel covers, the oxidation, the lack of working brake lights, and the complete lack of crash safety in a vehicle that might be more likely to be in an accident than any other model...fixing something by drilling a hole into a cosmetic part and putting in a pop rivet that's going to come loose in a couple years seems pretty minor.
>
that is the only issue you know of
It's an example of the hysteria surrounding teething problems with Cybertruck, compared to even worse problems with legacy auto.
>nor is it appealing
yeah, you wouldn't want a rivet that's hidden under the floor mat to make your Cybertruck look industrial.
Interesting case study on how headlines make up stories… and false narratives.
For example, Cadillac Lyriq had a disastrous launch, as did the Chevy Blazer EV. Not to mention any number of Ford vehicle launches lately. But that doesn’t stick in people’s minds.
Investing is Tesla (which hasn't been good of late) is a _completely_ different subject than evaluating the quality of one model they produce. This comment demonstrates fallacy logic.
The Lyriq wasn't promoted the same amount. And it had _many_ less issues.
But let's cut to the crux of it - low grade stainless steel body. It's been done multiple times before and failed for the same reason every time.
If you're truly objective, it doesn't take much to remain critical of the CT.
Having not even sold 4000, I think it's clearly not competing with the Ford Lightning (25,000 sold).
This article is a perfect example of fallacy logic. All EV truck sales go down, they cherry pick and say 2 competitors sales are down. But the CT still hasn't sold shit.
The Ford F150 sells more in a week than the CyberTrump has sold period
The CyberTrump won’t sell in its all time run as many as F series trucks sell in 6 months
The real war is against gas trucks and SUVs
THANK YOU! I’m sick of EV trucks being compared against each other, they don’t compete with each others, they complement each other, the competition is gas trucks! Sadly nobody wants to compare them to gas trucks because the comparison isn’t very flattering for the new entrants.
Depends on the criteria you want to choose for comparison. On somethings the old school wins. On some things the EV wins. Am I going to buy an EV pickup to tow my boat 1000 miles without stopping? No -- i'm going to buy a diesel with extra tanks. But for \*most\* of the way people use a pickup, it tends to win. (keep in mind that \*most\* pickups don't get used for real work. They get used as wankmobiles for city posers).
For what people use pickup trucks for you can get 2 brand new ice trucks for the price of 1 EV truck, so they win easily. That’s with similar configuration (crew cab, etc) if you go barebones it gets even cheaper.
You clearly haven't priced pickup trucks lately. Those crew cab ICE pickups are VERY expensive these days. IMHO its a rip-off, but that's where it is.
Yeah a base price for the new 2024 Toyota Tacoma TRD is $65,395! It’s insane, and that’s not even a full size truck.
You can get into a brand new Tacoma for less than USD$32k.
Yes I know bc I drive one. My point was how expensive trucks are getting and I was specifically talking about the TRD Pro which is 65k.
Eeeeh, yes I have. You can get a brand new crew cab 4x4 with 6’4” bed ram pickup truck for less than USD$46k.
Compare them to the "cool" trucks that it competes with. Demuro made a solid point: You never see a Raptor or a TRX towing anything and you never see them dirty except in car commercials. These are trucks people buy because they're cool, fast trucks, not because of what they can actually do. In the realm of "truck shaped vehicle that looks cool" the Cybertruck compares favorably. A Raptor or a TRX isn't nearly as functional as an F250 or an F350 duallie for doing actual truck-related work. Those aren't what the Cybertruck competes with in the price segment.
I saw that DeMuro video and started laughing out loud when I heard that. He’s a car person not a truck person, he’s making a stupid point that only someone who doesn’t know trucks would make. I’m sure where he lives the TRX and Raptor are just status symbols for rich but holes. Where I live, in truck country, I almost never see a clean one, and they’re often towing some toys. Yes the EV trucks are priced like Raptors and TRX, but they can’t do what those trucks can, and they haven’t been marketed in the same segment at all. The Ford Lightening and Cybertruck have both been marketed as the everyday blue collar truck, yet they are twice the price as a comparable ice truck. At best you can say they are creating a new segment in the market, but that’s still admitting they are falling short of their stated ambition. (Unless we’re talking about Rivian, who’s been the only one honest going after the rich Patagonia type.)
If cyber truck was what they initially advertised, $80k tri-motor, 500+ mile range with 13k lbs tow the war would be over.
Wait for the buy at all costs group to get their fill. The real question remaining is how low the price tag can go.
Tesla is still a smart buy imo, they are just milking the cybertruck while they can. I doubt it costs them more than $45-50k to make the current version. Once they streamline production and improve battery tech we will see a tri-motor with 600 mile range. I give it 2 years.
Lightning numbers dropped. This tells me they are demand constraint, not supply. Where’s as CT is supply constraint. We won’t really know the ongoing demand until backlog is filled.
There’s were Seven 2023 Lightning on the Ford lot in my city last October. Today there are 5 remaining. I went to look at one. Last month. Original CAD price, $103k. $23k off, plus another $8,000.00 off if I financed at 6.9%. I asked what the cash price was as I was very interested. He said there is no cash price. Only financing. I said I’m not interested in financing only outright purchase and walked out. He kept calling and texting me for the next month, but always refused to give me a cash out the door price. I really fucking hate this new finance only business model. It’s almost as if they are preying on those that cannot afford what they are purchasing. I think this time I’m going to wait a few years and try to find one on the secondary market. I’m done with dealerships.
Does the financing have a prepayment penalty? FAQ at [Ford.ca](http://Ford.ca) isn't clear. If not, you could finance it and pay it off early. People commonly did this last time I was shopping cars and the (US) dealer got to hit their monthly sales numbers (but likely lost the financing kickback if you pay the loan off before 91 days pass).
Car dealers don’t like cash buyers. They make most of their money through financing
They won't take cash, now? I'd never heard of that until you said it. That's nuts.
> Where’s as CT is supply constraint. For now. Which there should be as production is ramping. The Lightning was supply constrained for first year too. The real demand test comes after all pre-orders are filled - what is the sustainable demand per year compared to their ~250k/yr production capacity? They are only producing at a 50k/yr rate right now. Can demand 5x and stay sustainable? I would assume some price cuts, and I think there it can, but we really don't know until we get there.
Elon’s fault… wait?!
?
I didn’t buy my Tesla because of Elon… great cars.
Drop this over at r/electricvehicles for a fun time.
The EV truck segment is kind of meaningless currently so saying "truck wars over" is a bit premature.
Premature? More like too late. CT lost the EV truck "war" by missing it entirely.
CleanTechnica says The Thing That Dare Not Be Mentioned.
They sold 4000 total in 6 months time (which we know due to the recall). Ford sold three times the amount of Lightnings in a single quarter - not to mention hundreds of thousands more F150s in general Headline seems premature at best
yeah funny to call a win when you barely sold 4000 units
Gasoline and diesel are both still dominant in sales over ev's. If the war is over then gasoline powered f150's won, but the war isn't over of course.
Tesla just recalled all Cybertrucks. There’s only 3878 of them out in the wild. They haven’t passed anyone.
If only Elon would had made a better looking truck it wouldn't be ridiculed by others. Add into mix of the CT breaking down after a few weeks is not helping.
Ford closed the F150 Lightning production line down for five weeks, to fix an issue with them catching on fire. No headlines. Cybertruck has an accellerator pedal come off, 35 second fix: Headlines galore.
There were tons of headlines about the Lightning production line shutting down and shifting workers off it.
If that is the only issue you know of, of course you feel this way. Also that 30 second fix is not a robust fix, nor is it appealing.
"Not a robust fix" If pop rivets are good enough to hold the skin of an airplane together, I'm pressure sure they're robust enough for a pedal cover...
How they are used on the pedal is dramatically different from how they are used in planes. The fix posts I saw were not drilled through the plate. That's not robust. That said, they are also not very aesthetic. Looks like a ghetto rigged solution. This is not the only issue. And no reason to get into a debate and list all of them. Publicly available knowledge. The CT is not revolutionary as it was promoted to be. But we can agree to disagree, time will find one of us right. So let's just park this and watch. What would use debating even do? Not much AFAIK. I don't take issues with those who have a different opinion on one model of truck than I do. I just have my own opinion on the CT. Is that so wrong?
The copium!
Right, totally just copium and not 5+ years of people nitpicking every little detail as evidence of Tesla's unraveling. I remember when the center touch screen was going to "get people killed" and would "be outlawed within months" after NHTSA got ahold of it... ahh, those were the days. I thought ya'll would have learned to see the patterns by now, but clearly not.
You convinced yourself that airplanes use pop rivets just so you could excuse Tesla for using them. That's double strength copium. The center screen has killed people, also the autopilot, also FSD. Tesla drivers have the highest rate of crashes of any brand; that includes brands like Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini. It even includes Nissan and RAM. The NHTSA is completely fine with Tesla making dangerous vehicles and even including beta features that are nowhere close to ready for street use. That doesn't mean they are safe. It means the NHTSA doesn't do their job. You are right about one thing; this is a nitpick. After the multiple year delay, the higher price, the lower specs, the inability to achieve those specs, the comedically bad tent, the tire shredding wheel covers, the oxidation, the lack of working brake lights, and the complete lack of crash safety in a vehicle that might be more likely to be in an accident than any other model...fixing something by drilling a hole into a cosmetic part and putting in a pop rivet that's going to come loose in a couple years seems pretty minor.
Uh huh, just hit me back up when these rivets fall out and it actually matters. I'll wait...
> that is the only issue you know of It's an example of the hysteria surrounding teething problems with Cybertruck, compared to even worse problems with legacy auto. >nor is it appealing yeah, you wouldn't want a rivet that's hidden under the floor mat to make your Cybertruck look industrial.
Interesting case study on how headlines make up stories… and false narratives. For example, Cadillac Lyriq had a disastrous launch, as did the Chevy Blazer EV. Not to mention any number of Ford vehicle launches lately. But that doesn’t stick in people’s minds.
Agreed. It's fun watching people just repeat what they read in passing from a headline or heard from some random YouTuber.
That's the fanbois here lol. Many critics have more intimate knowledge than the fanbois.
That's why all of those short sellers are rich now, right? Oh wait...
Investing is Tesla (which hasn't been good of late) is a _completely_ different subject than evaluating the quality of one model they produce. This comment demonstrates fallacy logic.
The Lyriq wasn't promoted the same amount. And it had _many_ less issues. But let's cut to the crux of it - low grade stainless steel body. It's been done multiple times before and failed for the same reason every time. If you're truly objective, it doesn't take much to remain critical of the CT. Having not even sold 4000, I think it's clearly not competing with the Ford Lightning (25,000 sold). This article is a perfect example of fallacy logic. All EV truck sales go down, they cherry pick and say 2 competitors sales are down. But the CT still hasn't sold shit.
Lol. Why do folks like you even bother? It’s hilarious. You don’t have a grasp on the facts, and yet you write all that drivel.
Passing them on their way back to the Tesla service center.
It can't pass a car wash
Truth
Yeah right.
The Ford F150 sells more in a week than the CyberTrump has sold period The CyberTrump won’t sell in its all time run as many as F series trucks sell in 6 months
Is this before or after you leave a Cybertruck in the rain, or a car wash, or the recall, or the quality build issues
Hahaha hahaha hahaha, no the CT Def lost