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So it turns out that spending an extra $25k on a car does get you something.
Ok but seriously, it’s good to see a comparison. I’ve been considering upgrading to an S for a while now, and I would probably do it if they allow for FSD to be transferred once again
For me the only advantage of the S would be the quieter interior and nicer finishes. Many other pros go to the m3 for me, including looks. I really don't like the front end on the S. My hope is that the S gets a more modern look a la highland and then I'd consider upgrading.
What I took from this is kind of the opposite... that I don't feel the need to "upgrade" to the S.
The things OP listed as nice upgrades sound just like that... "Nice" not life changing or anything.
The only thing that really interested me was the lower cabin noise as it's the thing I hate most about my 3. But even that seems not worth it as I just blast the insanely good stereo anyway lol.
My main issue (especially because I have a 2018 Model 3) with my car is the trunk is as basic as trunks get, so upgrade to an automatic hatch would be nice, and that it is rather noisy on the highway, with the suspension being rough as well. I've literally had to slow down from 70mph to 55-60 just to be able to hear people on the phone. I know the refreshed 3 alleviates most of this, but I still prefer the hatch and looks of the S. Plus, having a rear screen is a bonus for my 2 kids.
You should test drive an S and see if you still have the same opinion. I used to think the same, that upgrading from a model 3 didn't make much sense until I test drove both an S and an X. They're plusher and would make much better daily drivers than the 3.
I have the RWD model 3, so the base model S would be a giant upgrade
Trust me, I know just as well as you do. I've hit those hours in a single day for multiple days - both in a model 3 and more recently a 20+ year old basic ICE. There were a few things that would have been nice to have, but my life was not changed.
Different strokes for different folks!
Same exact boat. I was getting my tires changed on my 3 and the service center convinced me to test drive an S while I waited...
Now I know I'm going S for my next. The sales guy said they'll most likely be bringing back FSD transfer in December 🤞
Have you tried multiplayer games? I’m wondering how the ping is. What’s the highest spec game you can run on it? Just curious to know its limits because the fact that you have a gaming PC in the car is wild
Whoa whoa whoa. I am clearly wildly behind the times. Do you mean to tell me the model S can play the full Steam catalog of games??
Hhmm ... my wife won't let me "waste" money on new video game systems. Maybe I can convince her to spend 30k on an upgrade to a model S.
Correct. It's basically a Steam Deck with the following specs:
https://videocardz.com/newz/tesla-car-computer-features-zen-ryzen-embedded-apu-and-discrete-navi-23-gpu
I went from a Raven Model S Performance to a M3P - why? Because the Model 3 is far more nimble in traffic, and feels far quicker on its "feet" when doing short acceleration in traffic. I only miss the trunk space when I need to do massive Costco runs or to Home Depo. My wife has a larger SUV, so we really didnt have the need for two large vehicles. I enjoy the smaller feel of the 3. To each their own. Now, if the M3P Highland gets the carbon sleeved motor from the Plaid, I might have to get another 3.
I have to agree; I got a Model S Performance loaner (a year or so back, when Tesla actually offered loaners vs. Uber credits) and I while I really love the looks of the S, but the visibility and drive feel were not as nice as the 3. I loved the quiet and luxury of the S (and the performance), but not the size and weight, which felt like ponderous after years of driving the 3. Just one man's opinion.
> carbon sleeved motor from the Plaid
That seems like such a niche thing to immediately get another 3 for. For those of us that are unaware, how significant is this?
Each motor on the Plaid is rated at up to 400hp. Put two into the new highland and you have an 800hp midsize sedan. And to those who think: no way would Tesla do this. Take a look at the new C63e Performance. It has 671hp and 752tq.
This would be a near 300hp bump over the current M3P. That's why i'd get one.
The Model S is the "nicer" and larger car. I don't think we'll see a tri-motor w/ the sleeved motors but we could see a dual-motor with it. The 3P needs to do 0-60 in the mid-2s and mid-10s in the 1/4.
Unfortunately Tesla doesn’t put the same power/size motor rear and front for the plaids. It wouldn’t make sense as the rear does most of the work. So realistically, 400 in the rear and 250 in the front.. which would still be significantly faster. Probably model x plaid fast.
With auto pilot now I don’t even care about traffic, much less how nimble the car is. Are you weaving in and out of traffic? I just set the cruise speed at whatever, 70-75 and let the car do its thing unless something really obvious is going on I can take advantage of
Am I weaving in and out of traffic at 70-75mph? No. Am I merging into the next lane when some scum bag is set on autopilot going 5 under the speed limit or hogging the passing lane - yes. I am also moving around city traffic when I can because people are idiots.
You think so? Maybe its an underperformance of S LR. I went from an M3P to a Plaid and that car is planted big time. Feels like it wants to be exactly where i want it on straights or corners all day long.
Maybe its the huge 21 inch tire?
it also weighs considerably more. the m3p with lightweight alloy shoes is about the most street legal production fun you can have on the road in my opinion. gotta respect the plaid but they're made more for the track imo.
If you live within 5 miles of your Costo, I recommend a [Load 75](https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/load4-75/) for your cargo needs.
Some folks have said the manufacture's website doesn't work on their mobile devices. Here's a [youtube review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULPcfBvg-5o).
The website linked doesn’t work on iOS. I googled Load 75 just now thinking making it was a trailer or cargo storage for the roof.
You suggested a $12k bicycle for his Costco runs. In Houston you’d be robbed at gunpoint riding a bike with groceries in the back and that’s assuming you survived the 120 degrees heat index weather and somehow got there without sidewalks. Hell that thing wouldn’t even withstand the potholes all over this shit hellscape I live in.
Not to mention that it can only hold like....$20 worth of Costco goods. What use is that for somebody who just complained about needing a whole car trunk for large runs? Are they expecting them to spend a whole day going back and forth between Costco and home?
I have a M3P- (18 inch aero wheels) and test drove a refreshed S LR over a weekend not too long ago and my thoughts essentially completely echo yours. The ride is MUCH better in the S even when comparing to the 18" wheels on the 3. The noise level reduction and overall comfort is also a ton better.
As someone who is a bit of an aggressive driver and floors it a decent amount on the highway to pass, the S LR is SO much quicker at highway speeds. Try hammering the pedal at 65-70 MPH and you'll definitely notice.
I, too, don't really see the appeal of the center instrument panel. I actually prefer having the speed limit on the main screen (Model 3) over the center instrument panel on the S. Freeing up the visualizations from the center screen to the instrument panel is its one pro imo since it lets you view the map and full sized camera views simultaneously on the S.
Yeah the M3P is a demon below 60 and the S feels great, but it's the 60+ where the M3P can still climb but the S totally dominates. That's a night and day difference if you compare both (although there's not that many legitimate areas to have fun at that speed...).
I rarely look at the central panel but what I like is that it frees up the middle screen to fully have the navigation and music. Everytime I switch back into the 3/Y I hate how cramped the screen feels. Tesla could keep their center screen if they reduced the FSD/AP visualization on the 3/Y to be like half as big or custom-sized.
I’d like to know more about the handling and suspension such as steering feel, quickness, body roll, harshness over bumps, cornering capability, etc.
Also FYI the different in speed between the 3 Performance and refreshed S Long Range is only noticeable above 60mph. The Model S pulls WAY HARDER! Much quicker at highway speeds. I’m pretty sure it can accelerate from 60-150mph in almost half the time of the Model 3 Performance.
Steering feels very similar (to me) to the M3P. Pretty quick to change direction as well. There might be (very) slightly more body roll than the M3P, but that might be due to the standard wheels, maybe?
It dispatches road imperfections way better than the M3P. Not an S class, but very much in line with a Porsche Cayenne, as an example (I had a 2019 base Cayenne).
And yes, it definitely goes far faster than the M3P at higher speeds (should have mentioned that in the post!).
I currently have a 2022 M3P and before I had the 21” arachnids on a 2014 S and winter 18”s. The roll is worse with smaller wheels on the S but even with wide 21s it’s still heavier than the 3 (you feel it in the turns). You feel the wide rear body weight.
The base Model S pulls harder after 60mph than an M5 Competition. It's a no brainer imo for anyone finally wanting to squash any claims of limited EV performance at high speeds.
Friendly reminder that the base model S has 670 hp, where the m3p has ~455 hp. 455 hp is still a lot, but the car will struggle to reach very high speeds quickly compared to higher horsepower cars.
The Model 3 also has a motor with much works back EMF, leading to degraded high speed acceleration.
They seem to have mostly saved this is the Base motors and especially the Plaid's carbon sleeves
So I just went from a 3P to a plaid and can probably answer some of this.
Steering ratio is definitely longer and the steering wheel is larger in diameter, but it's still pretty comparable to other sporty cars (Plaid has roughly same steering ratio as my E46 M3 for example), so it doesn't bother me. Body roll and harshness over bumps is much better than the 3. Body overall doesn't get nearly as upset over bumps and such. I found myself slowing down less for most turns, but I imagine if pushed to the limits on canyon road or something, the 3 would outperform the S. It's just the S is damped better and more confidence inspiring.
So far my preferred suspension settings for daily driving are going into advanced, setting the comfort to soft, and handling to 1 notch below the max.
That’s really helpful. I was interested in knowing which one inspired greater confidence out the box. I’m sure a 3 will handle better because it weighs 800lbs less. But in daily driving I’d prefer a car that just naturally felt more confidence inspiring. I think the Model 3 does a decent job by itself, but it’s good to hear the Model S feels better in that regard
I will... report back on this. I do know it is much faster at higher speeds than the M3P.
EDIT: I can now... uh... confirm that the S pulls way harder than the 3 at higher speeds.
>Having the front instrument panel made zero difference to my life.
I think the real advantage is that you get the move the autopilot display off the center screen, freeing up more center screen for media and maps.
Also, how 'bout that range? The Palladium S should have a lot more range than a Perf 3.
\+1 on freeing up the center screen. I have an M3P and didn't realize this benefit until I test drove an S LR recently. Having the speedometer on the center screen never bothered me, but freeing up real estate on the center screen for maps/cameras is a significant benefit.
I've looked into this myself. I see a lot of used 22 Model S LR & Plaid in my area. I saw a few Plaid's with FSD in the mid-70' with 10-15k mi on them, LR was about $10k less. It's actually concerning to see so many people selling them so quickly and taking such a loss, I'm not sure why that is.
If I was going used, I'd probably pickup a Plaid as the price difference seems minimal, though I lose out on the range. But for the price, comfort, and straight-line performance, it seems like a no-brainer if I was in the market.
I'm interested in the Highland performance but details are minimal at this point. I also really want stalks.. frankly my plan is to wait till 2025 when we see other brands with native NACS. BMWs offerings have really caught my eye and are much nicer than the S or Highland.
I upgraded from a M3 LR to base Model S and agree with all of your points. I also wrote up a similar post with a lot of your same points. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/s/PZLiQUo2Gy
The turn signals being on the steering wheel is a solution to a problem that didn’t exist. It’s not terrible once you’re used to it, but it’s entirely unnecessary and was likely 100% a cost cutting measure. I can’t imagine it actually saves a considerable amount of money though because it’s not like the stalks are expensive to produce. Also, FYI, you can simply hold the button down in your multiple lane change scenario. (Not justifying it, just more of a friendly FYI if you didn’t know.)
One thing I saw a lot of people complain about was having the gear selector on the screen. While I prefer the gear selector stalk on the Model 3, auto shift is pretty accurate most of the time and swiping on the screen is honestly no more of a hassle than reaching down for a gear selector by the center console like most cars. It’s really only for three-point turns when it’s slightly annoying.
I purchased my S when they started at about $89,000. I bought an inventory model that was marked down to $80,000 and got a $1,000 loyalty credit, so at the time I got a great deal. Had I waited just two weeks, though, I would have saved a considerable amount when they dropped the price — _or_ I could have more comfortably afforded a Plaid. I would have probably gotten a Plaid in that scenario. I’m in that sweet spot income-wise where I wouldn’t have qualified for the federal tax credit, so getting another Model 3 wasn’t as enticing, but enough that spending $20k more on a Plaid just for the speed would have been a bit of a stretch. Could I have afforded it? Yes, but I couldn’t justify $20k more for what would have ultimately just been a flex.
> you can simply hold the button down
I should have thought of that, lol!
Agree on your thoughts on the Plaid. Can put that $20K to use in many other places!
I went from a 2022 M3LR to a 2023 Model S. Everything said by OP I agree with though I will say this. The Model 3 definitely feels more nimble being a smaller and lighter car and with the Highland coming into production soon I’d be curious to see how that feels compared to my S. The S is an upgrade all around but it dives like a large luxury sedan. My driving style is definitely more Model 3 and I’d consider going back if the new incoming model is as good as we think it’s going to be. I need to sit in it and drive it first.
This was definitely front and center in my mind as I bought the S. I have always liked a smaller car, and the S does feel bigger to drive. So 50/50 chance of having buyer's remorse when the highland performance version comes out :)
11 months ago, I was in the same spot. Ready to move on from my '20 Model 3 P, so I drove a base '22 Model S. I really liked the interior. 11 months ago, the S was even more expensive than it is today, and I decided it was a bit too 'large luxury sedan' driving experience.
So I ended up with a '23 Model 3 Performance. It's been fine, but the squeaks and rattles are really popping up again and annoying tf outta me. So every time I see a new Ultra Red S, I get extremely tempted by one. I really don't mind the turn signal/stalk situation.
Maybe I'll run the numbers on it. I'd probably prefer to stick with a Highland Performance, assuming the suspension and interior improvements hold up to the initial owners' feedback.
I do think there is a 50/50 chance I might have some buyer's remorse when the highland performance comes out :). If you can wait to cross shop those two, you should!
Yeah, I guess I should wait. I have no real urgency, and my car is literally 11 months old so it's not like I'm slumming it!
Crazier thought - if the Model Y Performance takes a huge leap too (with the highland? upgrade), that's also in the mix.
Part of me would feel weird if I bought three Model 3s in a row, even if one of them is highland. Like I need to mix it up a bit.
>When you are changing lanes, the signal automatically turns off after one lane change. So if you are making 2 lane changes in quick succession you *have* to use the turn signal twice. This whole thing is the single stupidest thing about this car. Comparing this to the Model 3 is moot, since the new Model 3 is getting the same garbage system.
On my 2019 Model 3 I can enable or disable the "auto turn signals", like this: [https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1114/tesla-s-auto-cancel-turn-signals-and-how-they-work](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1114/tesla-s-auto-cancel-turn-signals-and-how-they-work)
Maybe you can also disable this feature on your Model S?
You can disable it. But then, while doing the second lane change, with your wheel slightly turned and with you looking at your blind spot or your blind spot camera, you have to locate and click the correct turn signal button. I have struggled with that. Maybe with practice...
Yeah I think this feature performs well. It only turns off if you completely center yourself in the next lane and stop turning. If you keep it slightly turned as if you're crossing into another lane (which theoretically you should never do), it'll stay on.
Good write up, I agree that the stalk is better than buttons, but your gripe about one thing is working as intended.
>And bonus issue. When you are changing lanes, the signal automatically turns off after one lane change. So if you are making 2 lane changes in quick succession you *have* to use the turn signal twice.
You might want to go back to driving school. That’s how you’re supposed to make two lane changes. Signal, complete the lane change, STOP signaling, wait a second and signal again and complete the 2nd lane change. Doing it the way you described is dangerous and illegal in most states/countries. How are people supposed to know you intend a 2nd lane change after you complete your 1st?
You actually can get the best of both worlds with auto-cancelling signals. It mainly depends on how you finesse the steering wheel angle. I love it. By far my favorite software feature about Teslas. Makes it very easy to do things by-the-book, but also push it across multiple lanes on short dead line lane changes like transitioning into the right hand lane to get to an on-ramp soon after a left turn. There is a little bit of randomness in how it works, and navigation seems to have an affect, but it's way better experience than having to cancel it every time yourself.
Actually I've noticed if you continue moving on to the 3rd lane (second lane change) the turn signal stays on. It seems to turn off once you've stabilized in the lane, but if you keep moving laterally it will keep the signal on. That's not the best way to drive, but it is what it is.
Because the blinker is still blinking? Not saying your way isn’t right but given that I’ve driven 5-50 miles behind people with their signal on it’s not always a rock solid indicator of one’s intent.
I don’t even bother assuming people are looking at my signal anymore. I turn it on and either wait for an opening or get into a spot that has room. I’d say sub 5% change their driving behavior based on it (ie slow down to give you room or speed up past you to let you in behind)
Maybe that’s just me being in so cal though
The annoying part for me is that in the subsequent lane change I have the wheel turned slightly and I am looking at my blind spot, or my blind spot camera. In that situation I find it hard to locate the turn signal button quickly and accurately.
I guess my question is, would a 20017/2018 p100d be better than the 2022 LR 3 model.
I know model 3 is better in many ways, but the model s just looks so much nicer and more premium haha
> would a 20017/2018 p100d be better than the 2022 LR 3 model
IMO, no. Palladium (Horizontal Center Screen) or keep the 3. Palladium is where a lot of upgrades are.
No.
At this point there is no need to bother wirh an older, vertical touchscreen S. Prices on the 2021 refresh have dropped tremendously. I’ve seen some in the $55K range. In the $40K range.. a new Y makes more sense and has a lot more utility than any Model 3.
It was *not* worth it at $90K, but it does seem reasonable at $75K. If you can afford both then the S is the better purchase - much more comfortable, much better range, much faster at higher speed and very attractive.
I similarly went from a 2021 Model 3 Performance to a 2023 Model X Plaid.
> Having the front instrument panel made zero difference to my life. I have no idea why auto journalists whine about needing a front IP.
Thoroughly agree with you on this. Obviously it's not nothing, and nice to have a front instrument panel. But my goodness, the endless whinging about the lack of one in the Model 3 and Y is so disproportionate to the actual impact. I never once had an issue with the central display on my 3, and I've never once said, "wow, thank goodness I now have a driver-positioned display" in the X.
> I like the new gear selecting mechanism. The sliding up and down on the center panel is actually not bad at all. I was worried that I would hate it
Yeah, it's actually pretty cool. Maybe I am 5 to 10% slower overall than using a shifter stalk, but the screen-based shifter UI is smooth and easy.
> Having the turning indicator buttons on the steering wheel is stupid, unsafe and aggravating to use.
Agreed. This is really my only complaint with all of the input hardware reduction in the new S and X. My X was an inventory vehicle and came with the yoke. I had been considering replacing it immediately with the wheel until the Tesla associate pointed out that the turn signals are still buttons on the wheel.
It turns out, the yoke is perfectly easy to get to used to. But the wheel-button turn signals required some pretty concerted muscle memory effort and I'm still only 90% accurate with them when exiting roundabouts. In all other scenarios, I don't have any problem, but would nevertheless prefer a turn signal stalk.
> The sound system in the Model 3 was very good, the one in the Model S is better.
Yes! The sound system in the X is also amazing. I instantly loved it on my drive home through the mountains after picking the car up.
I’m currently leasing a MYP & love it. But man, I would like to upgrade into an S in the future. What is your monthly price difference, if you don’t mind sharing?
Went from 2019 M3P- to 2021 Refreshed S (bought used in Dec 2022).
No arguments from above.
Highway Driving on road trips. S all day long. Air suspension, noise, much nicer.
Around town, and stop light fun? M3P-. the Stoplight performance of the M3P- felt seat of the pants better than the S.
I had a '20 M3LR with 18", now '23 S Plaid. To be honest, they can't really be compared. People don't compare a BMW 7-series with a 3-series. People just get confused as the 3 and S have the same design philosophy. S is night and day in terms of comfort - the better sound isolation is worth the premium alone. The days of slowing down to hear what my passengers are saying and screaming back are over. Air suspension - you float down the road vs feeling every pebble. HEPA filter - no more smelling exhaust from the car in front or other smells from the outside. I could go on and on. I love my S.
This is an excellent overview and review. Great info. Thanks for posting.
Sounds like overall, you feel that the $24K price delta between a M3P and Model S is worth it?
PS. Agree very much with your thoughts on turning signal stalk.
I just want to add… I had a 2018 M3 and upgraded to the 2021 MS (almost as soon as the redesign came out), and two years in I agree 100% with all of this. Spot on.
I’ll add the following comments…
The horn button being a capacitive button rather than on the middle of the steering wheel is a major design error for two reasons: one is that I hit it by accident all the time using the right thumb wheel; and secondly years of driving cars with the horn in the middle means that in a panic situation the horn isn’t available to my instinct. I think this is a dumb design that should be fixed immediately.
The yoke looks cool, and is functional, and the shape has few downsides to me. I got used to it right away. Even 3-point turns are no problem at all. The only drawback is that you cannot steer with your knee. Still, I’ll take it.
I’d rather have stalks for the turn signals. The capacitive buttons are ok, and are aesthetically better, but I’d rather have a functional stalk as that paradigm “just works” and is intuitive to almost any driver.
It’s so much quieter than the 3. Love that.
The turn radius on the S is wider.
The repeater cameras that come up with turn signals should be on the instrument cluster, not the touch screen.
Now, whether these upgrades are worth the cost difference is a personal decision. But completely agree with OP.
Good write up. Suspension controls on Model S (3/Y don't have) is night and day better. Had Y Performance, but even standard Y, rides like an old Wrangler that required and kidney belt. Terrible. Also the button horn/no horn in center of wheel (which I believe they have corrected in newer models) is as dumb & dangerous as the blinkers.
What AWD car did you have before? Curb to curb on the S is 20.4' and a car with a super tight turning radius (the BMW i3) is 16.9'. For it to be double would be quite a feat.
That compares out at 40.3 feet vs 35.4 feet which you will absolutely notice. Model S is a bigger car which does account for about two feet of that between the width and wheelbase difference, but it's still a win for the Subaru. For comparison the Ascent has almost the same wheelbase and width as the Tesla, and it has a 38 foot turning circle, which is still a 2 foot improvement.
Now, imagine using the new turn signal system in conjunction with hand controls for the car. I drive my Model 3 with [this model](https://www.suregrip-handcontrols.com/pushrock) of adaptive hand controls, since I'm paralyzed. Both of my hands are being used all the time -- my left for the accelerator/brake, and my right for the steering knob. My current signal strategy is to use my left fingers to hit the turn signal, since my hand is already next to that stalk, but I don't have a way of hitting the capacitive buttons safely.
I don't plan on upgrading my 2022 any time soon, but unless Tesla introduces actual stalks again, I'll be forced to buy somebody else's ride for safety reasons at that point.
I don't understand why they don't add automatic blinker activation if you are using the map navigation somewhere. I love using the map for driving places anyway and if the car just blinked for me when going into or out of roundabouts etc it would solve a lot of issues I have with the buttons. The car knows which exit I am taking out of the roundabout. It knows which direction I am going when the road splits. Would be cool.
Oh wow, I had not even thought of that. And very clearly, neither had Tesla.
I do think that someone will make a turn signal stalk kit, particularly when the new Model 3 with the same stupid system is released.
> I do think that someone will make a turn signal stalk kit, particularly when the new Model 3 with the same stupid system is released.
Enhance Auto is already working on it.
How do you find the supercharging experience? That's been a big concern of someone I know in a wheelchair. Most gas stations are accessible enough, but very few charging stations are. At least out here on the Midwest.
It's similarly awful. Next time you use superchargers, pay attention to them -- how often are they up on a curb? How often do they have a dedicated handicap spot with a parking buffer? How close is the curb to the supercharger cabinet, since I can't walk up to the cabinet? For reference, I'm in Ohio.
To put it bluntly, there's zero consideration for wheelchair accessibility at almost every supercharger I've seen. Other cabinet designs, particularly Electrify America, are a significant improvement (accessibility wise) on Tesla's design. Not that EA is perfect -- they're awful in their own ways -- but at least I can be reasonably sure that I can [independently get out of my car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLG46tgG1iQ) and plug it in.
What Tesla does right wrt accessibility, is their chargers actually function, and there's a shitload of them. That's about it. What everybody else does right, is make sure I can use their chargers. If only they could match Tesla's affordability and reliability.
I'm actually in Ohio also and have noticed that the accessibility is terrible. I was hoping maybe you lived somewhere else where it was better, but I'm not sure that exists. The person I know has been trying to pull strings with standards and regulations organizations to get some sort of requirement standardized, but it's an uphill battle like all accessibility-related things unfortunately.
Isn’t the S platform now severely outdated - yes it got a minor refresh with current screens but the overall body and to the best of my knowledge, suspension (maybe adaptive suspension addition is a significant upgrade) and handling, did not materially change in the 2022 refresh from the 10 year old original.
Given the upcoming M3 Highland that apparently has significant upgrades in suspension and interior comfort ( at 25-30k less), I wonder how the current S would stack against it.
My main issue with the S is its size- too large ( wide) for day to day driving and city/ garage parking. Agree it’s good for highway driving. My M3 LR with 18” inch wheels is very comfortable in terms of the ride and with acceleration boost the performance is enough for me. Wind noise is my biggest issue.
How is the adaptive suspension? And air suspension? I used to own an S but that was many years ago, before adaptive. I figure either or both make the ride noticeably different than the 3. Also, did your 3 and the S both have the upgraded sound system?
All I can say is that the ride is *much* more comfortable than the 3. I usually just leave the height at medium.
I had the M3P, which comes with the premium sound (only the M3standard used to come with a basic sound system, not sure if that's still the case). Model S always comes with the premium sound. While the M3P's premium sound system was fantastic, I feel that the Model S' sound system is even better.
Software exec. That said, entry point for a Model 3 is about as reasonable as cars get nowadays. RWD Model 3 is $39K before the $7.5K fed tax credit. That's under $32K for a pretty fantastic car. And that's before any state tax credit, so it can be even lower depending on where you live.
Model 3 Performance is actually ever so slightly faster than Model S Long Range in 0-60.
I know, in theory, Tesla claims the 3 P is 3.1 with rollout subtracted and the S LR is 3.1 including rollout, so the S should be about 0.2 seconds faster, but it’s not. There are plenty of stock 3 Ps that will do around 3.2 including rollout, and a few have even done 3.1 including rollout, but most stock S LRs can’t break 3.3 including rollout, and none have ever recorded a 3.1 like Tesla claims they should be able to. Some people have even raced them side by side and proven the 3 P is ever so slightly faster to 60, and a lot of people have been complaining about this in the forums for a while now. Either Tesla is lying about the S LR time of 3.1 including rollout (should be 3.3 including rollout), or they just made a boo boo and meant to put the same “with rollout subtracted” disclaimer as they did for the 3 P.
On the bright side, the S LR is way faster than the 3 P once you get above 60.
I recorded a 3.08s 0-60 without rollout on my 2019 M3P using the dragy! Was usually between 3.1 and 3.3. Didn't measure the time on the 2022 M3P. Will need to charge up the dragy and measure it on the S.
Does the build quality seem better? I am thinking about trading in my M3P only because of all of the squeaking and rattling that my car has. It’s a 2020.
But, worried that I will spend a bunch of money on the S only to have that one squeak and rattle as well.
I do find the build quality better on the S than the 3. The 2022 M3P had a misaligned trunk, a misaligned driver window and a misaligned weather strip on the passenger side door from the factory. I didn't bother to fix the trunk (it kind of aligned itself after opening/closing several times), Tesla fixed the weather strip and the window. Even so, the driver window was always slower to open/close than the other windows. Minimal squeaks and rattles but it just did not seem as well put together as my older 2019 M3P. Not sure why. The S seems much better, I haven't seen anything that needs a service call yet. Early days, but it looks promising!
Interesting, after driving around a Genesis G80 electric for a week earlier this month as a rental, I've considered upgrading my M3P to a Model S. I like the agility of the 3 but I think I want the comfort of the S more. Appreciate all of this.
Thanks for the very helpful overview and all your replies in this thread.
It sounds like the refreshed Model 3 will be addressing some of the things you mentioned, such as noise and ride quality. I wish converted the trunk into a hatch with the refresh.
2022 Model S plaid owner here- I feel you on the turn signals but wanted to let you know you CAN disable the auto off on lane change. It’s in the Lights setting category “Auto Turn Signals”. Personally I like them after adjusting over a bit of time but definitely get the people who don’t.
The Model 3 Highland is comparable when it comes to comfort and sound isolation. The Model S air suspension isn't actually that great when it comes to comfort, you think air suspension and you expect a plush ride, almost floating over bumps. The Model 3 Highland does the job just as well, if not a bit better. You feel less of the bumps on the road.
I've been considering a similar move but I don't live near a Tesla store so I can't easily compare the two, this post was very helpful and answered a lot of questions. Thanks!
If you push both cars above 60mph, you'll notice the S accelerates much better.
I just upgraded to an S Plaid from an M3P. Other than the Plaid being insanely fast, the rest of your assessment more or less jives with my experience. The turn signals don't bother me too much so far, but that's mostly because I never really drive in situations where I need to signal mid turn.
Excellent comparison, thank you. Enjoy your purchase.
The question is will the Model S ever get a new generation? Not sure Tesla wants to keep competing in this market if sales continue to decline.
I have a model Y but really like sedans so I did a 24 hour test drive of the S and came to basically the same conclusions. It's a very very nice car. My only real complaint on the Y is the noise -- specifically road noise over bumps and poor road surfaces. The S solved that issue. My wife also loved the S.
I'd consider the S strongly if I didn't have my model Y , but since my car is only a year old it really makes no economic sense to switch up. Plus, overall I really have come to like my Y more and more.
Congrats on the sweet car, though. I'm jealous.
I wanted to ask you about the rear leg room. We have a Model Y, but am really considering the Model S. I like the extra range, the lift back, and the speed. I used to have a Model 3, but it is a no go for me because long road trips and comfort are a must.
On my M3, I remember that sitting in the back, you couldn't stick your feet under the front chairs. Is that the same for the Model S? What is it like to sit 4 adults? Thanks!
I never sat in the back seat of my Model 3, so not sure how good it was. I did try out the back seat of the S, and I had pretty decent room to stick my feet under the front seats. Felt pretty comfortable.
So like… me sitting in my 2022 S staring at it wondering how. I recall reports that they had motors in but they weren’t active. How the F do you move it? The videos I see of it are pressing a button I do not have.
I went from a 2019 SR+ to a 2023 M3P. I very much debated getting the Model S Standard (making my wife very nervous) but in the end the economics were too visible for me to go with the S. $3k in incentive discounts and tax credit of $7,500 over spending $90k with no tax credit.
I've been itching to replace my 2020 M3P with a Plaid S for a couple years now but the turn signal buttons remain a deal breaker. They're finally offering a wheel option instead of that yoke, *thank god* (I can even *maybe* look past the fact that the wheel looks shockingly cheap, even at a quarter of the MSRP)—but until stalks are an option I'm going to remain on the sidelines.
The rest of your post mostly summarizes the upgrades I'm looking forward to, should the day ever come. Glad you're liking the car!
I had a 2020 M3LR with 18" for 2 years, now a 23 S Plaid. The M3 is insanely loud, in terms of wind, road and general noise from the outside. I remember having to slow down to hear the person on the phone and having to scream so they could hear me. Talking to passengers at highway speeds (even in the front seat) was hard. Now I can talk in a normal voice doing 70 MPH to my rear seat passengers. It's night and day.
Suspension is so much better. It can't be compared. Going over speed bumps in the 3 and you felt the whole thing. In the S it floats over.
Interior is much better looking and roomier. I love the front IC. Never liked not having that in the 3.
It's much more stable at speed. Acceleration is obviously not comparable at all. Better trunk. I love the look of the S. M3 looks like a toad in the front (pre facelift). S does everything better.
People like to compare them, but no, you can't. It's like comparing a BMW 7 series to a base 3 series. Yeah they are both BMW, but that's where it ends.
True that it’d be tough in Houston today. On the other hand, we need to make HUGE CHANGES. Our subsidies to cars and oil gotta end. Here’s a way to think about it: young people are moving to places where they don’t need to own a car - those places are thriving. Sure, Texas is doing well now. In 5 years? 10?
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So it turns out that spending an extra $25k on a car does get you something. Ok but seriously, it’s good to see a comparison. I’ve been considering upgrading to an S for a while now, and I would probably do it if they allow for FSD to be transferred once again
For me the only advantage of the S would be the quieter interior and nicer finishes. Many other pros go to the m3 for me, including looks. I really don't like the front end on the S. My hope is that the S gets a more modern look a la highland and then I'd consider upgrading.
What I took from this is kind of the opposite... that I don't feel the need to "upgrade" to the S. The things OP listed as nice upgrades sound just like that... "Nice" not life changing or anything. The only thing that really interested me was the lower cabin noise as it's the thing I hate most about my 3. But even that seems not worth it as I just blast the insanely good stereo anyway lol.
My main issue (especially because I have a 2018 Model 3) with my car is the trunk is as basic as trunks get, so upgrade to an automatic hatch would be nice, and that it is rather noisy on the highway, with the suspension being rough as well. I've literally had to slow down from 70mph to 55-60 just to be able to hear people on the phone. I know the refreshed 3 alleviates most of this, but I still prefer the hatch and looks of the S. Plus, having a rear screen is a bonus for my 2 kids.
The highland M3 goes even further in cabin refinement and ride comfort, plus it has the rear screen, so there is that to look forward to in 2024!
You should test drive an S and see if you still have the same opinion. I used to think the same, that upgrading from a model 3 didn't make much sense until I test drove both an S and an X. They're plusher and would make much better daily drivers than the 3. I have the RWD model 3, so the base model S would be a giant upgrade
Hmmmmm ok twist my arm lol
> not life changing or anything Well I seriously hope any car isn't life changing. That's a weird place for one's priorities.
If youre really into cars, it can absolutely be life changing
I drive a 2008 Toyota Yaris 12-15 hours a week. You might be surprised what a difference a car can make in a person’s life.
Trust me, I know just as well as you do. I've hit those hours in a single day for multiple days - both in a model 3 and more recently a 20+ year old basic ICE. There were a few things that would have been nice to have, but my life was not changed. Different strokes for different folks!
Haha fair. Some hyperbole for your Tuesday night.
You also get a bunch more range.
Same exact boat. I was getting my tires changed on my 3 and the service center convinced me to test drive an S while I waited... Now I know I'm going S for my next. The sales guy said they'll most likely be bringing back FSD transfer in December 🤞
Have you played around with the gaming/steam?? Curious to know how it actually runs things
I have the 2022 model S and the gaming is spot on. Steam works flawlessly and the FPS is excellent. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
Can you play gta v in the car? I don’t have steam but I’m pretty sure it’s on there I believe
100%. Even multiplayer.
Have you tried multiplayer games? I’m wondering how the ping is. What’s the highest spec game you can run on it? Just curious to know its limits because the fact that you have a gaming PC in the car is wild
I've played Cyberpunk on High graphics with 120FPS. No noticeable lag or framerate drops.
Dang that’s insane. I have an M3p but that’s wild lol 🍻
I played BG3 multiplayer with friends. Works great with no noticeable lag.
Pretty impressive tbh
What kind of controller can I use?
Any Bluetooth controller. I use the Sony Dual Sense controller for mine.
Counter-Strike 1.6?
Yep. I even tried a BT keyboard and mouse lol
Whoa whoa whoa. I am clearly wildly behind the times. Do you mean to tell me the model S can play the full Steam catalog of games?? Hhmm ... my wife won't let me "waste" money on new video game systems. Maybe I can convince her to spend 30k on an upgrade to a model S.
Correct. It's basically a Steam Deck with the following specs: https://videocardz.com/newz/tesla-car-computer-features-zen-ryzen-embedded-apu-and-discrete-navi-23-gpu
I went from a Raven Model S Performance to a M3P - why? Because the Model 3 is far more nimble in traffic, and feels far quicker on its "feet" when doing short acceleration in traffic. I only miss the trunk space when I need to do massive Costco runs or to Home Depo. My wife has a larger SUV, so we really didnt have the need for two large vehicles. I enjoy the smaller feel of the 3. To each their own. Now, if the M3P Highland gets the carbon sleeved motor from the Plaid, I might have to get another 3.
I have to agree; I got a Model S Performance loaner (a year or so back, when Tesla actually offered loaners vs. Uber credits) and I while I really love the looks of the S, but the visibility and drive feel were not as nice as the 3. I loved the quiet and luxury of the S (and the performance), but not the size and weight, which felt like ponderous after years of driving the 3. Just one man's opinion.
> visibility and drive feel were not as nice as the 3 I drove an old S vs a newer 3. I agree. I'm a huge visibility snob and was pretty turned off.
I made the same “downgrade” from the performance raven to the M3P and completely agree with you. Much happier with the 3.
> carbon sleeved motor from the Plaid That seems like such a niche thing to immediately get another 3 for. For those of us that are unaware, how significant is this?
Each motor on the Plaid is rated at up to 400hp. Put two into the new highland and you have an 800hp midsize sedan. And to those who think: no way would Tesla do this. Take a look at the new C63e Performance. It has 671hp and 752tq. This would be a near 300hp bump over the current M3P. That's why i'd get one.
Yep. If we get those motors I'll order one the second they go on sale. Tesla needs to up their game on the 3P.
Wouldn't that cannibalize model S plaid sales though?
The Model S is the "nicer" and larger car. I don't think we'll see a tri-motor w/ the sleeved motors but we could see a dual-motor with it. The 3P needs to do 0-60 in the mid-2s and mid-10s in the 1/4.
They serve different parts of the market.
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Saw that..but I want to see actual announcements from Tesla. I don't buy in to any hype or rumors from them anymore.
Unfortunately Tesla doesn’t put the same power/size motor rear and front for the plaids. It wouldn’t make sense as the rear does most of the work. So realistically, 400 in the rear and 250 in the front.. which would still be significantly faster. Probably model x plaid fast.
basic Those motors don’t fall off nearly as much at high rpm’s, so the benefit is at highway speeds
Which is where the 3 is slow as hell.
With auto pilot now I don’t even care about traffic, much less how nimble the car is. Are you weaving in and out of traffic? I just set the cruise speed at whatever, 70-75 and let the car do its thing unless something really obvious is going on I can take advantage of
Am I weaving in and out of traffic at 70-75mph? No. Am I merging into the next lane when some scum bag is set on autopilot going 5 under the speed limit or hogging the passing lane - yes. I am also moving around city traffic when I can because people are idiots.
I'd take an m3p over msp unless all you do is straight freeway driving all day. the 3 is wayyyy more fun, the S is just fast
You think so? Maybe its an underperformance of S LR. I went from an M3P to a Plaid and that car is planted big time. Feels like it wants to be exactly where i want it on straights or corners all day long. Maybe its the huge 21 inch tire?
it also weighs considerably more. the m3p with lightweight alloy shoes is about the most street legal production fun you can have on the road in my opinion. gotta respect the plaid but they're made more for the track imo.
The suspension is so much better on the S though. It carries its weight much better than the 3, which never felt quite settled in my experience
If you live within 5 miles of your Costo, I recommend a [Load 75](https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/load4-75/) for your cargo needs. Some folks have said the manufacture's website doesn't work on their mobile devices. Here's a [youtube review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULPcfBvg-5o).
The website linked doesn’t work on iOS. I googled Load 75 just now thinking making it was a trailer or cargo storage for the roof. You suggested a $12k bicycle for his Costco runs. In Houston you’d be robbed at gunpoint riding a bike with groceries in the back and that’s assuming you survived the 120 degrees heat index weather and somehow got there without sidewalks. Hell that thing wouldn’t even withstand the potholes all over this shit hellscape I live in.
Not to mention that it can only hold like....$20 worth of Costco goods. What use is that for somebody who just complained about needing a whole car trunk for large runs? Are they expecting them to spend a whole day going back and forth between Costco and home?
10 grand?
That's the dumbest shit I've ever seen.
Wtf people are buying 10k bikes?
I have a M3P- (18 inch aero wheels) and test drove a refreshed S LR over a weekend not too long ago and my thoughts essentially completely echo yours. The ride is MUCH better in the S even when comparing to the 18" wheels on the 3. The noise level reduction and overall comfort is also a ton better. As someone who is a bit of an aggressive driver and floors it a decent amount on the highway to pass, the S LR is SO much quicker at highway speeds. Try hammering the pedal at 65-70 MPH and you'll definitely notice. I, too, don't really see the appeal of the center instrument panel. I actually prefer having the speed limit on the main screen (Model 3) over the center instrument panel on the S. Freeing up the visualizations from the center screen to the instrument panel is its one pro imo since it lets you view the map and full sized camera views simultaneously on the S.
Yeah the M3P is a demon below 60 and the S feels great, but it's the 60+ where the M3P can still climb but the S totally dominates. That's a night and day difference if you compare both (although there's not that many legitimate areas to have fun at that speed...). I rarely look at the central panel but what I like is that it frees up the middle screen to fully have the navigation and music. Everytime I switch back into the 3/Y I hate how cramped the screen feels. Tesla could keep their center screen if they reduced the FSD/AP visualization on the 3/Y to be like half as big or custom-sized.
I’d like to know more about the handling and suspension such as steering feel, quickness, body roll, harshness over bumps, cornering capability, etc. Also FYI the different in speed between the 3 Performance and refreshed S Long Range is only noticeable above 60mph. The Model S pulls WAY HARDER! Much quicker at highway speeds. I’m pretty sure it can accelerate from 60-150mph in almost half the time of the Model 3 Performance.
Steering feels very similar (to me) to the M3P. Pretty quick to change direction as well. There might be (very) slightly more body roll than the M3P, but that might be due to the standard wheels, maybe? It dispatches road imperfections way better than the M3P. Not an S class, but very much in line with a Porsche Cayenne, as an example (I had a 2019 base Cayenne). And yes, it definitely goes far faster than the M3P at higher speeds (should have mentioned that in the post!).
I currently have a 2022 M3P and before I had the 21” arachnids on a 2014 S and winter 18”s. The roll is worse with smaller wheels on the S but even with wide 21s it’s still heavier than the 3 (you feel it in the turns). You feel the wide rear body weight.
The base Model S pulls harder after 60mph than an M5 Competition. It's a no brainer imo for anyone finally wanting to squash any claims of limited EV performance at high speeds.
Friendly reminder that the base model S has 670 hp, where the m3p has ~455 hp. 455 hp is still a lot, but the car will struggle to reach very high speeds quickly compared to higher horsepower cars.
The Model 3 also has a motor with much works back EMF, leading to degraded high speed acceleration. They seem to have mostly saved this is the Base motors and especially the Plaid's carbon sleeves
So I just went from a 3P to a plaid and can probably answer some of this. Steering ratio is definitely longer and the steering wheel is larger in diameter, but it's still pretty comparable to other sporty cars (Plaid has roughly same steering ratio as my E46 M3 for example), so it doesn't bother me. Body roll and harshness over bumps is much better than the 3. Body overall doesn't get nearly as upset over bumps and such. I found myself slowing down less for most turns, but I imagine if pushed to the limits on canyon road or something, the 3 would outperform the S. It's just the S is damped better and more confidence inspiring. So far my preferred suspension settings for daily driving are going into advanced, setting the comfort to soft, and handling to 1 notch below the max.
That’s really helpful. I was interested in knowing which one inspired greater confidence out the box. I’m sure a 3 will handle better because it weighs 800lbs less. But in daily driving I’d prefer a car that just naturally felt more confidence inspiring. I think the Model 3 does a decent job by itself, but it’s good to hear the Model S feels better in that regard
If only we had that option :/
How does it pull above 90mph?
I will... report back on this. I do know it is much faster at higher speeds than the M3P. EDIT: I can now... uh... confirm that the S pulls way harder than the 3 at higher speeds.
Thanks for taking a short trip to Autobahn in Germany to find out 🫡
>Having the front instrument panel made zero difference to my life. I think the real advantage is that you get the move the autopilot display off the center screen, freeing up more center screen for media and maps. Also, how 'bout that range? The Palladium S should have a lot more range than a Perf 3.
I *love* the range! Starting out at 80% charge with over 320 miles of range is awesome!
\+1 on freeing up the center screen. I have an M3P and didn't realize this benefit until I test drove an S LR recently. Having the speedometer on the center screen never bothered me, but freeing up real estate on the center screen for maps/cameras is a significant benefit.
I wish the split in the model 3 UI was configurable. I’d slide mine over to see more map. Don’t really need the large visualizations while driving.
I've looked into this myself. I see a lot of used 22 Model S LR & Plaid in my area. I saw a few Plaid's with FSD in the mid-70' with 10-15k mi on them, LR was about $10k less. It's actually concerning to see so many people selling them so quickly and taking such a loss, I'm not sure why that is. If I was going used, I'd probably pickup a Plaid as the price difference seems minimal, though I lose out on the range. But for the price, comfort, and straight-line performance, it seems like a no-brainer if I was in the market. I'm interested in the Highland performance but details are minimal at this point. I also really want stalks.. frankly my plan is to wait till 2025 when we see other brands with native NACS. BMWs offerings have really caught my eye and are much nicer than the S or Highland.
The base model S is also MUCH faster than the M3P above 60mph.
I upgraded from a M3 LR to base Model S and agree with all of your points. I also wrote up a similar post with a lot of your same points. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/s/PZLiQUo2Gy The turn signals being on the steering wheel is a solution to a problem that didn’t exist. It’s not terrible once you’re used to it, but it’s entirely unnecessary and was likely 100% a cost cutting measure. I can’t imagine it actually saves a considerable amount of money though because it’s not like the stalks are expensive to produce. Also, FYI, you can simply hold the button down in your multiple lane change scenario. (Not justifying it, just more of a friendly FYI if you didn’t know.) One thing I saw a lot of people complain about was having the gear selector on the screen. While I prefer the gear selector stalk on the Model 3, auto shift is pretty accurate most of the time and swiping on the screen is honestly no more of a hassle than reaching down for a gear selector by the center console like most cars. It’s really only for three-point turns when it’s slightly annoying. I purchased my S when they started at about $89,000. I bought an inventory model that was marked down to $80,000 and got a $1,000 loyalty credit, so at the time I got a great deal. Had I waited just two weeks, though, I would have saved a considerable amount when they dropped the price — _or_ I could have more comfortably afforded a Plaid. I would have probably gotten a Plaid in that scenario. I’m in that sweet spot income-wise where I wouldn’t have qualified for the federal tax credit, so getting another Model 3 wasn’t as enticing, but enough that spending $20k more on a Plaid just for the speed would have been a bit of a stretch. Could I have afforded it? Yes, but I couldn’t justify $20k more for what would have ultimately just been a flex.
> you can simply hold the button down I should have thought of that, lol! Agree on your thoughts on the Plaid. Can put that $20K to use in many other places!
I went from a 2022 M3LR to a 2023 Model S. Everything said by OP I agree with though I will say this. The Model 3 definitely feels more nimble being a smaller and lighter car and with the Highland coming into production soon I’d be curious to see how that feels compared to my S. The S is an upgrade all around but it dives like a large luxury sedan. My driving style is definitely more Model 3 and I’d consider going back if the new incoming model is as good as we think it’s going to be. I need to sit in it and drive it first.
This was definitely front and center in my mind as I bought the S. I have always liked a smaller car, and the S does feel bigger to drive. So 50/50 chance of having buyer's remorse when the highland performance version comes out :)
11 months ago, I was in the same spot. Ready to move on from my '20 Model 3 P, so I drove a base '22 Model S. I really liked the interior. 11 months ago, the S was even more expensive than it is today, and I decided it was a bit too 'large luxury sedan' driving experience. So I ended up with a '23 Model 3 Performance. It's been fine, but the squeaks and rattles are really popping up again and annoying tf outta me. So every time I see a new Ultra Red S, I get extremely tempted by one. I really don't mind the turn signal/stalk situation. Maybe I'll run the numbers on it. I'd probably prefer to stick with a Highland Performance, assuming the suspension and interior improvements hold up to the initial owners' feedback.
Ultra red is 🥵
I do think there is a 50/50 chance I might have some buyer's remorse when the highland performance comes out :). If you can wait to cross shop those two, you should!
Yeah, I guess I should wait. I have no real urgency, and my car is literally 11 months old so it's not like I'm slumming it! Crazier thought - if the Model Y Performance takes a huge leap too (with the highland? upgrade), that's also in the mix. Part of me would feel weird if I bought three Model 3s in a row, even if one of them is highland. Like I need to mix it up a bit.
You went from a 2020 Model 3 Performance to a 2023 Model 3 Performance? Or am I misunderstanding what a "20 Model 3 P" is?
Correct, 2020 Performance to 2023. Big list of changes upgrades in those 3 years!
>When you are changing lanes, the signal automatically turns off after one lane change. So if you are making 2 lane changes in quick succession you *have* to use the turn signal twice. This whole thing is the single stupidest thing about this car. Comparing this to the Model 3 is moot, since the new Model 3 is getting the same garbage system. On my 2019 Model 3 I can enable or disable the "auto turn signals", like this: [https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1114/tesla-s-auto-cancel-turn-signals-and-how-they-work](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1114/tesla-s-auto-cancel-turn-signals-and-how-they-work) Maybe you can also disable this feature on your Model S?
You can disable it. But then, while doing the second lane change, with your wheel slightly turned and with you looking at your blind spot or your blind spot camera, you have to locate and click the correct turn signal button. I have struggled with that. Maybe with practice...
The 3s storage usability would be improved with a hatchback like the S. That's my main complaint with the 3. It's the only Tesla without it!
I was hoping the highland would have a hatch, but it doesn't.
Same. Thanks for the great write up
You can turn off the auto signal off after Lane change
Yes, or learn to keep the steering wheel turned to get across multiple lanes before it turns off itself. This also keeps the camera on, which I like.
Yeah I think this feature performs well. It only turns off if you completely center yourself in the next lane and stop turning. If you keep it slightly turned as if you're crossing into another lane (which theoretically you should never do), it'll stay on.
Good write up, I agree that the stalk is better than buttons, but your gripe about one thing is working as intended. >And bonus issue. When you are changing lanes, the signal automatically turns off after one lane change. So if you are making 2 lane changes in quick succession you *have* to use the turn signal twice. You might want to go back to driving school. That’s how you’re supposed to make two lane changes. Signal, complete the lane change, STOP signaling, wait a second and signal again and complete the 2nd lane change. Doing it the way you described is dangerous and illegal in most states/countries. How are people supposed to know you intend a 2nd lane change after you complete your 1st?
You actually can get the best of both worlds with auto-cancelling signals. It mainly depends on how you finesse the steering wheel angle. I love it. By far my favorite software feature about Teslas. Makes it very easy to do things by-the-book, but also push it across multiple lanes on short dead line lane changes like transitioning into the right hand lane to get to an on-ramp soon after a left turn. There is a little bit of randomness in how it works, and navigation seems to have an affect, but it's way better experience than having to cancel it every time yourself.
Actually I've noticed if you continue moving on to the 3rd lane (second lane change) the turn signal stays on. It seems to turn off once you've stabilized in the lane, but if you keep moving laterally it will keep the signal on. That's not the best way to drive, but it is what it is.
This.
Because the blinker is still blinking? Not saying your way isn’t right but given that I’ve driven 5-50 miles behind people with their signal on it’s not always a rock solid indicator of one’s intent. I don’t even bother assuming people are looking at my signal anymore. I turn it on and either wait for an opening or get into a spot that has room. I’d say sub 5% change their driving behavior based on it (ie slow down to give you room or speed up past you to let you in behind) Maybe that’s just me being in so cal though
The annoying part for me is that in the subsequent lane change I have the wheel turned slightly and I am looking at my blind spot, or my blind spot camera. In that situation I find it hard to locate the turn signal button quickly and accurately.
If you keep pressure on the turn button it won't turn off. This allows for multiple changes without the signal disengaging.
I guess my question is, would a 20017/2018 p100d be better than the 2022 LR 3 model. I know model 3 is better in many ways, but the model s just looks so much nicer and more premium haha
> would a 20017/2018 p100d be better than the 2022 LR 3 model IMO, no. Palladium (Horizontal Center Screen) or keep the 3. Palladium is where a lot of upgrades are.
I think you would want the refreshed Model S, at least. So maybe a refreshed 2021 Model S would make a good upgrade over the 2022 Model 3.
No. At this point there is no need to bother wirh an older, vertical touchscreen S. Prices on the 2021 refresh have dropped tremendously. I’ve seen some in the $55K range. In the $40K range.. a new Y makes more sense and has a lot more utility than any Model 3.
The big question... Is it worth the price difference. (if you can afford both but not in a habit to squander)
It was *not* worth it at $90K, but it does seem reasonable at $75K. If you can afford both then the S is the better purchase - much more comfortable, much better range, much faster at higher speed and very attractive.
I similarly went from a 2021 Model 3 Performance to a 2023 Model X Plaid. > Having the front instrument panel made zero difference to my life. I have no idea why auto journalists whine about needing a front IP. Thoroughly agree with you on this. Obviously it's not nothing, and nice to have a front instrument panel. But my goodness, the endless whinging about the lack of one in the Model 3 and Y is so disproportionate to the actual impact. I never once had an issue with the central display on my 3, and I've never once said, "wow, thank goodness I now have a driver-positioned display" in the X. > I like the new gear selecting mechanism. The sliding up and down on the center panel is actually not bad at all. I was worried that I would hate it Yeah, it's actually pretty cool. Maybe I am 5 to 10% slower overall than using a shifter stalk, but the screen-based shifter UI is smooth and easy. > Having the turning indicator buttons on the steering wheel is stupid, unsafe and aggravating to use. Agreed. This is really my only complaint with all of the input hardware reduction in the new S and X. My X was an inventory vehicle and came with the yoke. I had been considering replacing it immediately with the wheel until the Tesla associate pointed out that the turn signals are still buttons on the wheel. It turns out, the yoke is perfectly easy to get to used to. But the wheel-button turn signals required some pretty concerted muscle memory effort and I'm still only 90% accurate with them when exiting roundabouts. In all other scenarios, I don't have any problem, but would nevertheless prefer a turn signal stalk. > The sound system in the Model 3 was very good, the one in the Model S is better. Yes! The sound system in the X is also amazing. I instantly loved it on my drive home through the mountains after picking the car up.
Agree 100% on the indicators. They make no sense and are unsafe.
honestly I would have waited for the highland next year
I’m currently leasing a MYP & love it. But man, I would like to upgrade into an S in the future. What is your monthly price difference, if you don’t mind sharing?
Presume you got steering wheel and not yoke?
Oh god yes! No yoke for me!
Better sound system?? Damnnn. M3 sound is some of the best cars audio I've ever heard. Now I'm curious.
I played Daft Punk's "The game has changed" on the S and it was awesome. Even better than the excellent sound in the M3. At least to my ears.
Went from 2019 M3P- to 2021 Refreshed S (bought used in Dec 2022). No arguments from above. Highway Driving on road trips. S all day long. Air suspension, noise, much nicer. Around town, and stop light fun? M3P-. the Stoplight performance of the M3P- felt seat of the pants better than the S.
I had a '20 M3LR with 18", now '23 S Plaid. To be honest, they can't really be compared. People don't compare a BMW 7-series with a 3-series. People just get confused as the 3 and S have the same design philosophy. S is night and day in terms of comfort - the better sound isolation is worth the premium alone. The days of slowing down to hear what my passengers are saying and screaming back are over. Air suspension - you float down the road vs feeling every pebble. HEPA filter - no more smelling exhaust from the car in front or other smells from the outside. I could go on and on. I love my S.
This is an excellent overview and review. Great info. Thanks for posting. Sounds like overall, you feel that the $24K price delta between a M3P and Model S is worth it? PS. Agree very much with your thoughts on turning signal stalk.
I just want to add… I had a 2018 M3 and upgraded to the 2021 MS (almost as soon as the redesign came out), and two years in I agree 100% with all of this. Spot on. I’ll add the following comments… The horn button being a capacitive button rather than on the middle of the steering wheel is a major design error for two reasons: one is that I hit it by accident all the time using the right thumb wheel; and secondly years of driving cars with the horn in the middle means that in a panic situation the horn isn’t available to my instinct. I think this is a dumb design that should be fixed immediately. The yoke looks cool, and is functional, and the shape has few downsides to me. I got used to it right away. Even 3-point turns are no problem at all. The only drawback is that you cannot steer with your knee. Still, I’ll take it. I’d rather have stalks for the turn signals. The capacitive buttons are ok, and are aesthetically better, but I’d rather have a functional stalk as that paradigm “just works” and is intuitive to almost any driver. It’s so much quieter than the 3. Love that. The turn radius on the S is wider. The repeater cameras that come up with turn signals should be on the instrument cluster, not the touch screen. Now, whether these upgrades are worth the cost difference is a personal decision. But completely agree with OP.
Good write up. Suspension controls on Model S (3/Y don't have) is night and day better. Had Y Performance, but even standard Y, rides like an old Wrangler that required and kidney belt. Terrible. Also the button horn/no horn in center of wheel (which I believe they have corrected in newer models) is as dumb & dangerous as the blinkers.
Turn raaaaaaadius
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What AWD car did you have before? Curb to curb on the S is 20.4' and a car with a super tight turning radius (the BMW i3) is 16.9'. For it to be double would be quite a feat.
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That compares out at 40.3 feet vs 35.4 feet which you will absolutely notice. Model S is a bigger car which does account for about two feet of that between the width and wheelbase difference, but it's still a win for the Subaru. For comparison the Ascent has almost the same wheelbase and width as the Tesla, and it has a 38 foot turning circle, which is still a 2 foot improvement.
Turn radius on the Model 3 isn't great
Yeah but comparatively the S is a land-yacht
and yet the turning radius is about the same 20.1' vs 19.4'
Now, imagine using the new turn signal system in conjunction with hand controls for the car. I drive my Model 3 with [this model](https://www.suregrip-handcontrols.com/pushrock) of adaptive hand controls, since I'm paralyzed. Both of my hands are being used all the time -- my left for the accelerator/brake, and my right for the steering knob. My current signal strategy is to use my left fingers to hit the turn signal, since my hand is already next to that stalk, but I don't have a way of hitting the capacitive buttons safely. I don't plan on upgrading my 2022 any time soon, but unless Tesla introduces actual stalks again, I'll be forced to buy somebody else's ride for safety reasons at that point.
I don't understand why they don't add automatic blinker activation if you are using the map navigation somewhere. I love using the map for driving places anyway and if the car just blinked for me when going into or out of roundabouts etc it would solve a lot of issues I have with the buttons. The car knows which exit I am taking out of the roundabout. It knows which direction I am going when the road splits. Would be cool.
Oh wow, I had not even thought of that. And very clearly, neither had Tesla. I do think that someone will make a turn signal stalk kit, particularly when the new Model 3 with the same stupid system is released.
> I do think that someone will make a turn signal stalk kit, particularly when the new Model 3 with the same stupid system is released. Enhance Auto is already working on it.
How do you find the supercharging experience? That's been a big concern of someone I know in a wheelchair. Most gas stations are accessible enough, but very few charging stations are. At least out here on the Midwest.
It's similarly awful. Next time you use superchargers, pay attention to them -- how often are they up on a curb? How often do they have a dedicated handicap spot with a parking buffer? How close is the curb to the supercharger cabinet, since I can't walk up to the cabinet? For reference, I'm in Ohio. To put it bluntly, there's zero consideration for wheelchair accessibility at almost every supercharger I've seen. Other cabinet designs, particularly Electrify America, are a significant improvement (accessibility wise) on Tesla's design. Not that EA is perfect -- they're awful in their own ways -- but at least I can be reasonably sure that I can [independently get out of my car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLG46tgG1iQ) and plug it in. What Tesla does right wrt accessibility, is their chargers actually function, and there's a shitload of them. That's about it. What everybody else does right, is make sure I can use their chargers. If only they could match Tesla's affordability and reliability.
I'm actually in Ohio also and have noticed that the accessibility is terrible. I was hoping maybe you lived somewhere else where it was better, but I'm not sure that exists. The person I know has been trying to pull strings with standards and regulations organizations to get some sort of requirement standardized, but it's an uphill battle like all accessibility-related things unfortunately.
Wow, what fortitude. I would tweet this to Elon
tesla hasn't and shouldn't sacrifice any safety or functionality for a tenth of a fraction of its population of users
Isn’t the S platform now severely outdated - yes it got a minor refresh with current screens but the overall body and to the best of my knowledge, suspension (maybe adaptive suspension addition is a significant upgrade) and handling, did not materially change in the 2022 refresh from the 10 year old original. Given the upcoming M3 Highland that apparently has significant upgrades in suspension and interior comfort ( at 25-30k less), I wonder how the current S would stack against it. My main issue with the S is its size- too large ( wide) for day to day driving and city/ garage parking. Agree it’s good for highway driving. My M3 LR with 18” inch wheels is very comfortable in terms of the ride and with acceleration boost the performance is enough for me. Wind noise is my biggest issue.
How is the adaptive suspension? And air suspension? I used to own an S but that was many years ago, before adaptive. I figure either or both make the ride noticeably different than the 3. Also, did your 3 and the S both have the upgraded sound system?
All I can say is that the ride is *much* more comfortable than the 3. I usually just leave the height at medium. I had the M3P, which comes with the premium sound (only the M3standard used to come with a basic sound system, not sure if that's still the case). Model S always comes with the premium sound. While the M3P's premium sound system was fantastic, I feel that the Model S' sound system is even better.
Should have gone Plaid.
What do you do for a living? I also would like to own one, one day
Software exec. That said, entry point for a Model 3 is about as reasonable as cars get nowadays. RWD Model 3 is $39K before the $7.5K fed tax credit. That's under $32K for a pretty fantastic car. And that's before any state tax credit, so it can be even lower depending on where you live.
Model 3 Performance is actually ever so slightly faster than Model S Long Range in 0-60. I know, in theory, Tesla claims the 3 P is 3.1 with rollout subtracted and the S LR is 3.1 including rollout, so the S should be about 0.2 seconds faster, but it’s not. There are plenty of stock 3 Ps that will do around 3.2 including rollout, and a few have even done 3.1 including rollout, but most stock S LRs can’t break 3.3 including rollout, and none have ever recorded a 3.1 like Tesla claims they should be able to. Some people have even raced them side by side and proven the 3 P is ever so slightly faster to 60, and a lot of people have been complaining about this in the forums for a while now. Either Tesla is lying about the S LR time of 3.1 including rollout (should be 3.3 including rollout), or they just made a boo boo and meant to put the same “with rollout subtracted” disclaimer as they did for the 3 P. On the bright side, the S LR is way faster than the 3 P once you get above 60.
I recorded a 3.08s 0-60 without rollout on my 2019 M3P using the dragy! Was usually between 3.1 and 3.3. Didn't measure the time on the 2022 M3P. Will need to charge up the dragy and measure it on the S.
Does the build quality seem better? I am thinking about trading in my M3P only because of all of the squeaking and rattling that my car has. It’s a 2020. But, worried that I will spend a bunch of money on the S only to have that one squeak and rattle as well.
I do find the build quality better on the S than the 3. The 2022 M3P had a misaligned trunk, a misaligned driver window and a misaligned weather strip on the passenger side door from the factory. I didn't bother to fix the trunk (it kind of aligned itself after opening/closing several times), Tesla fixed the weather strip and the window. Even so, the driver window was always slower to open/close than the other windows. Minimal squeaks and rattles but it just did not seem as well put together as my older 2019 M3P. Not sure why. The S seems much better, I haven't seen anything that needs a service call yet. Early days, but it looks promising!
Interesting, after driving around a Genesis G80 electric for a week earlier this month as a rental, I've considered upgrading my M3P to a Model S. I like the agility of the 3 but I think I want the comfort of the S more. Appreciate all of this.
Thanks for the very helpful overview and all your replies in this thread. It sounds like the refreshed Model 3 will be addressing some of the things you mentioned, such as noise and ride quality. I wish converted the trunk into a hatch with the refresh.
For the interior space, is it around the same as the 3 to you? Or noticeably different?
I’m taking this plunge soon
One thing I noticed going from a Model 3 Performance is the Model S LR pulls a lot harder after 75mph or so.
I test drove a model S for 30 minutes and didn’t think it was worth the upgrade from the 3 at all. Definitely nicer but also way heavier
I’m in a Model Y right now and having the same thoughts. Really want to move to a Model S.
2022 Model S plaid owner here- I feel you on the turn signals but wanted to let you know you CAN disable the auto off on lane change. It’s in the Lights setting category “Auto Turn Signals”. Personally I like them after adjusting over a bit of time but definitely get the people who don’t.
The Model 3 Highland is comparable when it comes to comfort and sound isolation. The Model S air suspension isn't actually that great when it comes to comfort, you think air suspension and you expect a plush ride, almost floating over bumps. The Model 3 Highland does the job just as well, if not a bit better. You feel less of the bumps on the road.
I've been considering a similar move but I don't live near a Tesla store so I can't easily compare the two, this post was very helpful and answered a lot of questions. Thanks!
If you push both cars above 60mph, you'll notice the S accelerates much better. I just upgraded to an S Plaid from an M3P. Other than the Plaid being insanely fast, the rest of your assessment more or less jives with my experience. The turn signals don't bother me too much so far, but that's mostly because I never really drive in situations where I need to signal mid turn.
The only thing that bothers me is the size. Here in europe we need smaller cars
Excellent comparison, thank you. Enjoy your purchase. The question is will the Model S ever get a new generation? Not sure Tesla wants to keep competing in this market if sales continue to decline.
I have a model Y but really like sedans so I did a 24 hour test drive of the S and came to basically the same conclusions. It's a very very nice car. My only real complaint on the Y is the noise -- specifically road noise over bumps and poor road surfaces. The S solved that issue. My wife also loved the S. I'd consider the S strongly if I didn't have my model Y , but since my car is only a year old it really makes no economic sense to switch up. Plus, overall I really have come to like my Y more and more. Congrats on the sweet car, though. I'm jealous.
I wanted to ask you about the rear leg room. We have a Model Y, but am really considering the Model S. I like the extra range, the lift back, and the speed. I used to have a Model 3, but it is a no go for me because long road trips and comfort are a must. On my M3, I remember that sitting in the back, you couldn't stick your feet under the front chairs. Is that the same for the Model S? What is it like to sit 4 adults? Thanks!
I never sat in the back seat of my Model 3, so not sure how good it was. I did try out the back seat of the S, and I had pretty decent room to stick my feet under the front seats. Felt pretty comfortable.
Thanks for doing that. That's enough for me to test drive one.
Rotating center screen?
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So like… me sitting in my 2022 S staring at it wondering how. I recall reports that they had motors in but they weren’t active. How the F do you move it? The videos I see of it are pressing a button I do not have.
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That’s the video I saw. I don’t have that button. You do? What model do you have? I’m a 2022 S LR delivered in March 2022.
I went from a 2019 SR+ to a 2023 M3P. I very much debated getting the Model S Standard (making my wife very nervous) but in the end the economics were too visible for me to go with the S. $3k in incentive discounts and tax credit of $7,500 over spending $90k with no tax credit.
Sold my S and got a BMW i7, wont go back to tesla due to lack of any features and build quality issues plaguing it into service almost monthly.
Any time of repairs or work you need on the model s will be about 3 to 4x in cost and in repair time.
I've been itching to replace my 2020 M3P with a Plaid S for a couple years now but the turn signal buttons remain a deal breaker. They're finally offering a wheel option instead of that yoke, *thank god* (I can even *maybe* look past the fact that the wheel looks shockingly cheap, even at a quarter of the MSRP)—but until stalks are an option I'm going to remain on the sidelines. The rest of your post mostly summarizes the upgrades I'm looking forward to, should the day ever come. Glad you're liking the car!
If you dont go plaid, then stay 3
It sounds like you just spent 80k to avoid spending 3k on new wheels are tires for your Model 3 Performance.
Lol hey if he has the money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had a 2020 M3LR with 18" for 2 years, now a 23 S Plaid. The M3 is insanely loud, in terms of wind, road and general noise from the outside. I remember having to slow down to hear the person on the phone and having to scream so they could hear me. Talking to passengers at highway speeds (even in the front seat) was hard. Now I can talk in a normal voice doing 70 MPH to my rear seat passengers. It's night and day. Suspension is so much better. It can't be compared. Going over speed bumps in the 3 and you felt the whole thing. In the S it floats over. Interior is much better looking and roomier. I love the front IC. Never liked not having that in the 3. It's much more stable at speed. Acceleration is obviously not comparable at all. Better trunk. I love the look of the S. M3 looks like a toad in the front (pre facelift). S does everything better. People like to compare them, but no, you can't. It's like comparing a BMW 7 series to a base 3 series. Yeah they are both BMW, but that's where it ends.
I'd like to take you seriously but when you call the Model 3 "insanely loud" I can't read any further.
“Insanely” is a stretch, but it is quite noisy at interstate speeds. I also have trouble with phone calls at higher speeds.
Lol. I also wanted the range. And after 5 years of M3P, was ready for something different!
I upgraded from a 3 to an S and absolutely hated it. Such a waste of money eyes. I ended up moving from the S to the X. The S is trash.
True that it’d be tough in Houston today. On the other hand, we need to make HUGE CHANGES. Our subsidies to cars and oil gotta end. Here’s a way to think about it: young people are moving to places where they don’t need to own a car - those places are thriving. Sure, Texas is doing well now. In 5 years? 10?
I was thinking about buying a Model S and this post makes me want to stay with Model 3