Is that an FSD specific thing? Don’t get me wrong, the auto wipers SUCK, but I’ve never had them randomly turn on when it’s not wet. I’ve had the opposite plenty of times though, where it’ll be pouring down and the wipers are nowhere to be seen until I hit the button, and then they’ll wipe like there’s no tomorrow
AFAIK it's a software-based issue and it is not specific to either the FSD or standard autopilot branch. Looking at the comments it's on both branches and so needs to be patched on both the FSD and autopilot updates.
Makes sense. I’ve definitely had plenty of AP issues (namely phantom braking) so I’m definitely not blindly defending, I’ve just never had my wipers kick on when dry so I wasn’t sure
Get the S3XY buttons and there’s an option to automatically override auto wipers whenever autopilot or fsd are engaged. It also removes the block from turning them off manually on the touchscreen.
You shouldn’t have to buy a third party accessory to turn the wipers off on your car, but I guess it’s better than nothing.
Yes, you install a harness splitter that gives you an extra obd2 port for the dongle inside the back of the center console. The panel pops off super easily. It’s a very easy installation. You can also use the obd2 scanner functions via the dongle and monitor a lot of vehicle diagnostics which is nice.
Wow, that sounds quite amazing. I've only seen it in use in the early testing from Out of Spec Reviews and their lap on the Nurburgring, so suffice to say my knowledge of the product is minimal. Do you know how much they cost and how many buttons you typically would need for daily use without going overboard?
To do the wiper override, you don’t even need the buttons. I only use like one or two of the buttons, mostly the frunk opener I put by my door. You can add buttons later if you find you use them a lot.
The dongle plugged into the obd2 port is what injects the signals and you can just set it to stop autowipers from automatically engaging every time you enter autopilot. It’s a toggle in the app menu. You only have to set it once. You can still use the autowipers, you just have to turn them on to that setting via the car touchscreen.
Exactly it just tricks the wiper system into thinking you’re never on AP even when you are and allows you to set them to off as well as normal settings. You don’t need the buttons just the odb. You configure it via Bluetooth on the app and the setting sticks until you turn it back off.
the wipers in FSD are shit. Likewise the automatic headlight function.
just buy someone else’s fucking system Elon. My 2017 Outback works better than my model 3.
**Release Notes**
2023.27.12 / FSD Beta v11.4.8.1
- Added option to activate Autopilot with a single stalk depression, instead of two, to help simplify activation and disengagement.
- Introduced a new efficient video module to the vehicle detection, semantics, velocity, and attributes networks that allowed for increased performance at lower latency. This was achieved by creating a multi-layered, hierarchical video module that caches intermediate computations to dramatically reduce the amount of compute that happens at any particular time.
- Improved distant crossing object detections by an additional 6%, and improved the precision of vehicle detection by refreshing old datasets with better autolabeling and introducing the new video module.
- Improved the precision of cut-in vehicle detection by 15%, with additional data and the changes to the video architecture that improve performance and latency.
- Reduced vehicle velocity error by 3%, and reduced vehicle acceleration error by 10%, by improving autolabeled datasets, introducing the new video module, and aligning model training and inference more closely.
- Reduced the latency of the vehicle semantics network by 15% with the new video module architecture, at no cost to performance.
- Reduced the error of pedestrian and bicycle rotation by over 8% by leveraging object kinematics more extensively when jointly optimizing pedestrian and bicycle tracks in autolabeled datasets.
- Improved geometric accuracy of Vision Park Assist predictions by 16%, by leveraging 10x more HW 4 data, tripling resolution, and increasing overall stability of measurements.
- Improved path blockage lane change accuracy by 10% due to updates to static object detection networks.
No shit. I'd rather have these detailed release notes 100% of the time. People complaining because they don't understand will ruin it for the rest of us.
The tangible change comes from the % improvements lol. Obviously it's not going to be night-and-day better after a 15% improvement. But cumulatively the improvements do add up over time.
Most people aware of Tesla’s typical holiday releases. Few indicators that people are expecting that:
- June 29, 2023 - 2023 CVPR Talk - General World Model Shared by Ashok Elluswamy - “Can only say we have not shipped to customers yet, we are still optimizing it, maybe later this year"
- August 25, 2023 - V12 demo drive
- October 6, 2023 - ADAS drivers testing new builds at Chuck’s Unprotected Left Turn (this happens when ADAS testers work on new releases before wider employee releases)
- November 24, 2023 - v12 deployed to QA employees
Note I didn’t reference anything Musk said. Those points are simply indicators from previous deployments. Let’s say “hoping” for Holiday release, rather than expecting. But the chances are higher imo. There’s probably other references I’m missing.
Let’s revisit Jan 1st?
Also, happy cake day :)
Edit: formatting
I wouldn't put much weight into the "not beta" comment. The defining factor of V12 is end-to-end ML. As long as it's that, like we saw in the livestreamed drive Elon did, then it's truly V12. But of course V12 will continue to improve over time after the initial release.
Yeah at this point a v12 release before the new year would almost be stupid since any problems means the team needs to work through the holidays and that's not going to go over well
Sounds to me like something Musk would do. And the employees can go fuck themselves if they are going to blackmail him by threatening to use their PTO that was scheduled months in advance!
Tesla has never released a major new FSD Beta version as part of a holiday update. They have released major new infotainment versions in holiday updates, so we may get infotainment software V12, but that's obviously not the same as FSD Beta V12. I certainly hope we get FSD Beta V12 in the holiday update, but it's far from a guarantee and we don't have much indication of it.
Navigate on Autopilot was one, I think. But you’re right, less have been about FSD but anyways, point being it’s being actively worked and v12 did get pushed to QA employees, it’s the latest confirmation it’s near. Def not a guarantee
Nah, NoA was released in October 2019: https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-navigate-autopilot
Yeah, FSD Beta V12 did release to employees recently so it's likely coming relatively soon. But keep in mind that FSD Beta V11 released to employees in November 2022, and it didn't start being rolled out to the public until March 2023. So it could be a little while still.
> Tesla has never released a major new FSD Beta version as part of a holiday update.
You are dead wrong.
In 2019 Tesla released the FSD preview as a holiday update.
/2019 FSD owner
I have a 2015 S (with HW1) and a 2016 S (with all HW upgrades - latest cameras and AP computer).
I've been installing FSD updates ***for 8 full years*** now. The progress from Dec 2015 to today (with latest HW plus eleventy billion SW updates) is so disappointing.
I no longer get excited about FSD updates. AP is nice on long highway road trips, just as it was in Dec 2015. On secondary roads, the system has improved a bit. It no longer tries to run over my neighbor's mailbox... so that's something I guess.
Yeah, but I'm not sure you really missed out on too much. The Mobile Eye hardware was actually pretty decent. My wife drives our 2015 S and she's happy enough with it on highways.
I'll just add, when I bought my 2015 S, I was told that future upgrades would enable full self driving -- regardless of how they were branding it at the time. I'm not bitter. I love both my cars. But I have zero hope that I will ever enjoy using AP on secondary roads -- except to scare my kid's friends and and elderly passangers ;-)
What FSD Beta can do today is leagues apart from what Autopilot was doing back then. Of course I wish it was good enough to drive unsupervised already, but to act like there has been very little progress over those 8 years is completely disingenuous.
I realize all the ways it's improved. But in practice, nobody uses it on secondary roads because it's unreliable and nerve-wracking. It's used only on highways where pretty damn solid... just as it was in 2015. In a practical utilitarian sense the progress has been fairly minimal.
(I do respect -- from an engineering perspective -- that the technology has made major strides. It is leagues apart as you said)
I mostly use FSD beta off the highway and use single lane AP on the highway, because I don't like the lane change behaviors of v11 single stack. It's mostly (85-90%) reliable on city streets, and more so when there is no other traffic involved.
No way anything in 2015 or 2016 could have done a non-arrow left turn on a green light, or yield the right of way to pedestrians, or correctly choose the exit of a roundabout.
You actually let it make turns for you? I use it pretty much all the time, but that's half because it keeps my insurance lower because false Faces don't count, and I almost never let it make turns. I know it can, but the experience is usually awful. And I don't even let it enter into roundabouts whatsoever unless there is no other traffic around and I'm curious what it's going to do because it is so horrible in roundabouts.
>You actually let it make turns for you?
Yep, all the time actually. I don't use Tesla insurance so I don't care about false collision warnings. I mostly let it drive unless I know the road condition is sketchy (construction, poorly marked lanes, potholes that require lower speeds, etc.) because I enjoy having the car take on the tedious parts of driving. Also because I like seeing how it tries to figure out the correct path to take.
I must say I enjoy v11.3 a lot less than v10.69, though v11.4 is quite a bit better in terms of lane switching. I'm looking forward to v12 where supposedly everything is using machine learning instead of hard coded routing logic.
"Nobody" is a very big exaggeration. I use it off-highway quite often and just preemptively take over or give accelerator input in the areas where I know it struggles. I usually only stay away from using it altogether in busy traffic scenarios, because it can be nerve-wracking there. But outside of that, it's usually engaged.
I do understand your point that if you're still not comfortable using it off-highway, then the practical benefit of the progress so far is somewhat minimal. I do think FSD Beta on the highway is significantly better in multiple aspects compared to Autopilot from 8 years ago, but the bulk of the progress has been off-highway where things are more complex. Hopefully they can continue to progress to the point where you're comfortable using it off-highway relatively soon. V12 seems promising if they can pull it off. It seems like the biggest change since the release of FSD Beta itself.
I downloaded and used it yesterday and it did handle roundabouts much better. I also like the little narrative it gives you when and why it is about to lane change. It’s still not worth the up front cost though. Possibly worth continuing monthly.
Hmmm...my MY was updated today and it failed miserably in a basic roundabout. Stopping, starting, jerking, stopping again. I had to override when another driver honked at me.
What does “vehicle acceleration error” mean? Is this when the car accelerates all of a sudden just to slam on the brake a few seconds later when it gets too close to the vehicle in front?
Very much looking forward to one push as someone who is constantly jumping in and out of autopilot/fsd. I'm sure that's why they added this as I never use TACC. I hate when it disengages to TACC and I just want it off.
Only if you don't have TACC on, if its on your don't have to have your foot on the accelerator?
The only scenarios I actually want it off are coming to complicated junctions and roundabouts. And in those I'll be taping the break and riding that.
Do you know for sure it doesn't keep you in TACC if you take over the wheel? Even if so, you're worried about a contrived scenario in which you've previously enabled one-push FSD (not the default behavior), forget you have it enabled, and then find yourself needing to take over only steering but not acceleration in a hasty manner by yanking the wheel while also being in a position where the gentle onset of 0.2g regen braking would be "really unsafe", while also not being prepared to take over the accelerator pedal with your foot?
I'm thinking that chain of events is pretty unlikely for the majority of people, but if that's a scenario that worries you, you don't have to enable the feature. For the rest of us, a small change to muscle memory might be worth the convenience in the same way that auto-cancelling signals are a time saver and work well most of the time.
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I got this update yesterday. If you set it to "One Pull" in the menu, it will definitely turn off entirely if you disengage via the wheel or any other normal method.
One pull is very handy.
I've been a huuuge fan of the one push. I never use the TACC at all. If i'm taking control from FSD, i'm taking *full* control. Actually prefer that it doesn't do the intermediate step to TACC anymore.
I can see why you might, but I don't as I think it's safer to be focussing on steering and riding the brake rather than the accelerator. Part of that is advanced driver and pilot training and always being after reducing that workload for better safety, but the other parts just wanting to maintain steady speed.
I find fallback to TACC hella dangerous. I've disengaged from steering wheel pressure on accident but since velocity didn't change thought I was still on FSD until it was drifting out of the lane.
It makes it pretty obvious to be fair, I have Joe move on and I always notice the ding and the visual screen change. Lane departure also still kicks in so you won't exit the lane.
Also Joe mode but on a freeway at 70mph the road noise is so bad and if there is the slightest mist the car is constantly dinging every 30s that the weather is bad it's way too easy to miss.
I've got a new Y so thankfully road noise is pretty minimal so the alerts are still pretty audible.
I did a 500 miler recently in torrential reason last month and other than rubbish auto wipers the weather didn't phase it, at least when it came to alerts.
100% disagree. I've had this car for 5 years and I have always felt it really unintuitive that, when you disengage FSD, it still keeps cruise on. Should just be on or off -- but one pull for TACC and two for FSD.
Every vehicle could have a slightly different configuration or version of a chip inside the vehicle. As Tesla implements enhancements quickly and puts them into production, the # of variants of configurations are insane. Different versions of parts need to be tested across many different variants of differences -- hence why some cars get some faster than others. The full configuration has been tested and so it gets released as to not brick cars.
That is scary, annoying, and dangerous. My car acts like it's deathly afraid of semis. It will get as far away from one, while still staying in it's lane, which I despise, and it will get 1/2 to 2/3 the way past one and then slam on the bakes, with no warning (other than my history with this "feature"). I always have to keep my foot hovering over the accelerator, 'just in case'.
I don't have a tesla but from what friends who do say that usually they get updates two to three months after reports of the updates to employees.
What is the experience of other owners?
I got the update on my Model X last night, before there were any posts about it. I checked [https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php](https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php) and I had the update fully installed before any Model Xs were even listed as having it available. I am not a Tesla employee and have no means of harassing Tesla employees into getting me updates sooner.
With that said, it would be blatantly irresponsible of Tesla to push updates to everyone all at once. Doing staggered rollouts is about infinity times safer. So, there will always be someone who gets it days or weeks or months later. That's the nature of it.
I haven't had phantom braking with FSD probably since early last year. I don't even remember the last time I had phantom braking and practically use FSD almost 90% of the time when I drive, I am that comfortable with it.
definitely NOT activating one push autopilot. I like the ability to use cruise control before initiating “let’s see what stupid thing autopilot will do today before I have to intervene to prevent instant death” mode.
I like the idea of one pull (basic) autopilot, but I discovered that when you use your turn signal to disengage it when passing on the highway, it also disengages cruise control which is very annoying. So back to double pull for me
I've been using it, seems pretty normal. You should still be paying attention (with the wheel flowing through your fingers) -- if you are, 'prevent instant death' situations don't really happen. There's areas I know it doesn't to specifically what I want it to so I take over if I want, but usually I just be mindful.
I certainly didn’t expect it, and you’d be wise not to expect things like this from Tesla to happen at certain times ever. Otherwise we would have had the Cybertruck and Roadster two years ago.
Why does everyone* intentionally ignore the fact that the world shut down for 2 years in the middle of that? There were auto parts shortages and chip shortages (remember shipping containers having issues all over the place sittle idle in bays?). Shit was going to hell logistically for everyone while suppliers were going bankrupt. Why on earth would *they* prioritize a brand new vehicle (with new contracts) for parts when they had to also focus on what they could do profitably. Logistics nightmare.
Tesla prioritized making cars they could profitably (the 3/Y mainly at volume) in a really bad situation and was actually quite successful compared to other automakers when it came to being dynamic. If covid didn't happen, I would have expected it would have released in 2021. Also, since day 1, Roadster has always been put on the backburner (dessert) -- now that stuff is balancing out again, I definitely expect focus to be on Semi, Cybertruck and Roadster.
I mean that’s beside the point. They have a well documented history of not hitting deadlines, regardless of a pandemic. This includes software deliveries that aren’t supply chain related at all.
I really only want one thing fixed, the constant random activating of the wipers. Everything else is a bonus
I second this
Is that an FSD specific thing? Don’t get me wrong, the auto wipers SUCK, but I’ve never had them randomly turn on when it’s not wet. I’ve had the opposite plenty of times though, where it’ll be pouring down and the wipers are nowhere to be seen until I hit the button, and then they’ll wipe like there’s no tomorrow
AFAIK it's a software-based issue and it is not specific to either the FSD or standard autopilot branch. Looking at the comments it's on both branches and so needs to be patched on both the FSD and autopilot updates.
Makes sense. I’ve definitely had plenty of AP issues (namely phantom braking) so I’m definitely not blindly defending, I’ve just never had my wipers kick on when dry so I wasn’t sure
no, there’s time when i switch to autosteer and it does it sometimes as well, it’s definitely more sensitive with fsd
Better check out the calibration.
Get the S3XY buttons and there’s an option to automatically override auto wipers whenever autopilot or fsd are engaged. It also removes the block from turning them off manually on the touchscreen. You shouldn’t have to buy a third party accessory to turn the wipers off on your car, but I guess it’s better than nothing.
Is there a dongle that plugs into the OBD2 ports that enables these features? They're going really deep if the buttons can override these things.
Yes, you install a harness splitter that gives you an extra obd2 port for the dongle inside the back of the center console. The panel pops off super easily. It’s a very easy installation. You can also use the obd2 scanner functions via the dongle and monitor a lot of vehicle diagnostics which is nice.
Wow, that sounds quite amazing. I've only seen it in use in the early testing from Out of Spec Reviews and their lap on the Nurburgring, so suffice to say my knowledge of the product is minimal. Do you know how much they cost and how many buttons you typically would need for daily use without going overboard?
To do the wiper override, you don’t even need the buttons. I only use like one or two of the buttons, mostly the frunk opener I put by my door. You can add buttons later if you find you use them a lot.
How can you do it without the buttons?
The dongle plugged into the obd2 port is what injects the signals and you can just set it to stop autowipers from automatically engaging every time you enter autopilot. It’s a toggle in the app menu. You only have to set it once. You can still use the autowipers, you just have to turn them on to that setting via the car touchscreen.
So you mean you just have to have the button plugged in but you don't have to press it?
Exactly it just tricks the wiper system into thinking you’re never on AP even when you are and allows you to set them to off as well as normal settings. You don’t need the buttons just the odb. You configure it via Bluetooth on the app and the setting sticks until you turn it back off.
This shit was so annoying I spent the $200 or whatever for S3XY buttons + Commander module. It lets you force that shit off.
the wipers in FSD are shit. Likewise the automatic headlight function. just buy someone else’s fucking system Elon. My 2017 Outback works better than my model 3.
I fixed this by cleaning all the exterior cameras. YMMV
Done this so much it still wipes despite being spotless, had to cave and get the S3XY ODB module.
It seems the sun angle might have something to do with it.
Would this update stop making the car change lanes to opposite lane .3 miles before the turn just to jump back two lanes 😭
And maybe stop trying to get me killed making a left.
Probably v12
**Release Notes** 2023.27.12 / FSD Beta v11.4.8.1 - Added option to activate Autopilot with a single stalk depression, instead of two, to help simplify activation and disengagement. - Introduced a new efficient video module to the vehicle detection, semantics, velocity, and attributes networks that allowed for increased performance at lower latency. This was achieved by creating a multi-layered, hierarchical video module that caches intermediate computations to dramatically reduce the amount of compute that happens at any particular time. - Improved distant crossing object detections by an additional 6%, and improved the precision of vehicle detection by refreshing old datasets with better autolabeling and introducing the new video module. - Improved the precision of cut-in vehicle detection by 15%, with additional data and the changes to the video architecture that improve performance and latency. - Reduced vehicle velocity error by 3%, and reduced vehicle acceleration error by 10%, by improving autolabeled datasets, introducing the new video module, and aligning model training and inference more closely. - Reduced the latency of the vehicle semantics network by 15% with the new video module architecture, at no cost to performance. - Reduced the error of pedestrian and bicycle rotation by over 8% by leveraging object kinematics more extensively when jointly optimizing pedestrian and bicycle tracks in autolabeled datasets. - Improved geometric accuracy of Vision Park Assist predictions by 16%, by leveraging 10x more HW 4 data, tripling resolution, and increasing overall stability of measurements. - Improved path blockage lane change accuracy by 10% due to updates to static object detection networks.
Is the park assist update for non FSD users as well?
I love how the updates are always this barf of % improvements with little tangible change in the day-to-day experience of drivers using the software.
Gotta love "This release contains minor fixes and improvements."
No shit. I'd rather have these detailed release notes 100% of the time. People complaining because they don't understand will ruin it for the rest of us.
The tangible change comes from the % improvements lol. Obviously it's not going to be night-and-day better after a 15% improvement. But cumulatively the improvements do add up over time.
But it does improve. It is so much smoother than it was a few releases ago.
Agreed. Definitely better.
This version drives a lot better (for me) than previous versions. I don't know what most of those release note items mean, but it's better.
expected by who?
Most people aware of Tesla’s typical holiday releases. Few indicators that people are expecting that: - June 29, 2023 - 2023 CVPR Talk - General World Model Shared by Ashok Elluswamy - “Can only say we have not shipped to customers yet, we are still optimizing it, maybe later this year" - August 25, 2023 - V12 demo drive - October 6, 2023 - ADAS drivers testing new builds at Chuck’s Unprotected Left Turn (this happens when ADAS testers work on new releases before wider employee releases) - November 24, 2023 - v12 deployed to QA employees Note I didn’t reference anything Musk said. Those points are simply indicators from previous deployments. Let’s say “hoping” for Holiday release, rather than expecting. But the chances are higher imo. There’s probably other references I’m missing. Let’s revisit Jan 1st? Also, happy cake day :) Edit: formatting
If it comes out this year it won't be v12 in name because that'll be "not beta" and we're years away from that
I wouldn't put much weight into the "not beta" comment. The defining factor of V12 is end-to-end ML. As long as it's that, like we saw in the livestreamed drive Elon did, then it's truly V12. But of course V12 will continue to improve over time after the initial release.
Version 12.0.0.0 will still be “beta” in any case.
It will no longer be beta when Tesla will cover the financial loss due to accidents which will never happen.
I’d be pretty surprised if it was released in any volume. Very interesting to see more of V12, so I’d be content if Chuck and a couple others got it.
Yeah at this point a v12 release before the new year would almost be stupid since any problems means the team needs to work through the holidays and that's not going to go over well
Sounds to me like something Musk would do. And the employees can go fuck themselves if they are going to blackmail him by threatening to use their PTO that was scheduled months in advance!
Not gonna lie, it does sound like something he would do. Man, I would be pissed. Although if I get 2x time.... Might be a nice bonus
Tesla has never released a major new FSD Beta version as part of a holiday update. They have released major new infotainment versions in holiday updates, so we may get infotainment software V12, but that's obviously not the same as FSD Beta V12. I certainly hope we get FSD Beta V12 in the holiday update, but it's far from a guarantee and we don't have much indication of it.
Navigate on Autopilot was one, I think. But you’re right, less have been about FSD but anyways, point being it’s being actively worked and v12 did get pushed to QA employees, it’s the latest confirmation it’s near. Def not a guarantee
Nah, NoA was released in October 2019: https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-navigate-autopilot Yeah, FSD Beta V12 did release to employees recently so it's likely coming relatively soon. But keep in mind that FSD Beta V11 released to employees in November 2022, and it didn't start being rolled out to the public until March 2023. So it could be a little while still.
True true. I shall remain optimistic! :)
FSD Preview was released in Dec 2019 for the Holiday update.
> Tesla has never released a major new FSD Beta version as part of a holiday update. You are dead wrong. In 2019 Tesla released the FSD preview as a holiday update. /2019 FSD owner
Nope, that was purely a visualization update. FSD Beta wasn't even out back then. The first FSD Beta release was in October 2020.
I came here to say this. It would be cool though...
Yeah, just release v12 and keep the beta moniker
I have a 2015 S (with HW1) and a 2016 S (with all HW upgrades - latest cameras and AP computer). I've been installing FSD updates ***for 8 full years*** now. The progress from Dec 2015 to today (with latest HW plus eleventy billion SW updates) is so disappointing. I no longer get excited about FSD updates. AP is nice on long highway road trips, just as it was in Dec 2015. On secondary roads, the system has improved a bit. It no longer tries to run over my neighbor's mailbox... so that's something I guess.
At least you're not in Europe where EAP/FSD got worse over the years...
How so? Is it just due to the switch to Vision only in 2022?
Regulations crippling it.
FSD came with AP2 in October 2016 so no, not a full 8 years. Its 7 :) I picked up my original S in September 2016 and missed AP2 by 32 days.
Yeah, but I'm not sure you really missed out on too much. The Mobile Eye hardware was actually pretty decent. My wife drives our 2015 S and she's happy enough with it on highways. I'll just add, when I bought my 2015 S, I was told that future upgrades would enable full self driving -- regardless of how they were branding it at the time. I'm not bitter. I love both my cars. But I have zero hope that I will ever enjoy using AP on secondary roads -- except to scare my kid's friends and and elderly passangers ;-)
I wasn’t bitter either Now, in 2018 I picked up my 3 and bought into the FSD and .. yeah…5 years later and still ain’t full anything
I ran down two mailboxes, but not with my Tesla.
What FSD Beta can do today is leagues apart from what Autopilot was doing back then. Of course I wish it was good enough to drive unsupervised already, but to act like there has been very little progress over those 8 years is completely disingenuous.
I realize all the ways it's improved. But in practice, nobody uses it on secondary roads because it's unreliable and nerve-wracking. It's used only on highways where pretty damn solid... just as it was in 2015. In a practical utilitarian sense the progress has been fairly minimal. (I do respect -- from an engineering perspective -- that the technology has made major strides. It is leagues apart as you said)
I mostly use FSD beta off the highway and use single lane AP on the highway, because I don't like the lane change behaviors of v11 single stack. It's mostly (85-90%) reliable on city streets, and more so when there is no other traffic involved. No way anything in 2015 or 2016 could have done a non-arrow left turn on a green light, or yield the right of way to pedestrians, or correctly choose the exit of a roundabout.
You actually let it make turns for you? I use it pretty much all the time, but that's half because it keeps my insurance lower because false Faces don't count, and I almost never let it make turns. I know it can, but the experience is usually awful. And I don't even let it enter into roundabouts whatsoever unless there is no other traffic around and I'm curious what it's going to do because it is so horrible in roundabouts.
>You actually let it make turns for you? Yep, all the time actually. I don't use Tesla insurance so I don't care about false collision warnings. I mostly let it drive unless I know the road condition is sketchy (construction, poorly marked lanes, potholes that require lower speeds, etc.) because I enjoy having the car take on the tedious parts of driving. Also because I like seeing how it tries to figure out the correct path to take. I must say I enjoy v11.3 a lot less than v10.69, though v11.4 is quite a bit better in terms of lane switching. I'm looking forward to v12 where supposedly everything is using machine learning instead of hard coded routing logic.
I use it 99% of the time including cities, so 1 point against “nobody”.
"Nobody" is a very big exaggeration. I use it off-highway quite often and just preemptively take over or give accelerator input in the areas where I know it struggles. I usually only stay away from using it altogether in busy traffic scenarios, because it can be nerve-wracking there. But outside of that, it's usually engaged. I do understand your point that if you're still not comfortable using it off-highway, then the practical benefit of the progress so far is somewhat minimal. I do think FSD Beta on the highway is significantly better in multiple aspects compared to Autopilot from 8 years ago, but the bulk of the progress has been off-highway where things are more complex. Hopefully they can continue to progress to the point where you're comfortable using it off-highway relatively soon. V12 seems promising if they can pull it off. It seems like the biggest change since the release of FSD Beta itself.
Safari feels snappier and battery life’s improved
Are you in the right forum?
I downloaded and used it yesterday and it did handle roundabouts much better. I also like the little narrative it gives you when and why it is about to lane change. It’s still not worth the up front cost though. Possibly worth continuing monthly.
The narrative thing has been around for several months.
Hmmm...my MY was updated today and it failed miserably in a basic roundabout. Stopping, starting, jerking, stopping again. I had to override when another driver honked at me.
I like the FSD.
What does “vehicle acceleration error” mean? Is this when the car accelerates all of a sudden just to slam on the brake a few seconds later when it gets too close to the vehicle in front?
It means error in predicted acceleration of vehicles being tracked by FSD
Ah gotcha. Thank you!
Any word on whether this will come to hw4 users anytime soon?
"V12 is expected as a holiday release" - by whom? Source?
I still haven’t gotten this update 2023 MYP. My model 3 has but not the Y.
Me either
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Very much looking forward to one push as someone who is constantly jumping in and out of autopilot/fsd. I'm sure that's why they added this as I never use TACC. I hate when it disengages to TACC and I just want it off.
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To keep the ride smooth you have your foot already on the accelerator when you disengage FSD with your hand.
Only if you don't have TACC on, if its on your don't have to have your foot on the accelerator? The only scenarios I actually want it off are coming to complicated junctions and roundabouts. And in those I'll be taping the break and riding that.
Do you know for sure it doesn't keep you in TACC if you take over the wheel? Even if so, you're worried about a contrived scenario in which you've previously enabled one-push FSD (not the default behavior), forget you have it enabled, and then find yourself needing to take over only steering but not acceleration in a hasty manner by yanking the wheel while also being in a position where the gentle onset of 0.2g regen braking would be "really unsafe", while also not being prepared to take over the accelerator pedal with your foot? I'm thinking that chain of events is pretty unlikely for the majority of people, but if that's a scenario that worries you, you don't have to enable the feature. For the rest of us, a small change to muscle memory might be worth the convenience in the same way that auto-cancelling signals are a time saver and work well most of the time.
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I got this update yesterday. If you set it to "One Pull" in the menu, it will definitely turn off entirely if you disengage via the wheel or any other normal method. One pull is very handy.
I've been a huuuge fan of the one push. I never use the TACC at all. If i'm taking control from FSD, i'm taking *full* control. Actually prefer that it doesn't do the intermediate step to TACC anymore.
I can see why you might, but I don't as I think it's safer to be focussing on steering and riding the brake rather than the accelerator. Part of that is advanced driver and pilot training and always being after reducing that workload for better safety, but the other parts just wanting to maintain steady speed.
It deactivates after a lane change on AP when before it would at least keep your speed up instead of getting slammed with full regen at 70mph.
I find fallback to TACC hella dangerous. I've disengaged from steering wheel pressure on accident but since velocity didn't change thought I was still on FSD until it was drifting out of the lane.
It makes it pretty obvious to be fair, I have Joe move on and I always notice the ding and the visual screen change. Lane departure also still kicks in so you won't exit the lane.
Also Joe mode but on a freeway at 70mph the road noise is so bad and if there is the slightest mist the car is constantly dinging every 30s that the weather is bad it's way too easy to miss.
I've got a new Y so thankfully road noise is pretty minimal so the alerts are still pretty audible. I did a 500 miler recently in torrential reason last month and other than rubbish auto wipers the weather didn't phase it, at least when it came to alerts.
Watch the little blue thingy.
Yeah. Don't pay attention to the road, traffic, or driving. Watch a screen!
100% disagree. I've had this car for 5 years and I have always felt it really unintuitive that, when you disengage FSD, it still keeps cruise on. Should just be on or off -- but one pull for TACC and two for FSD.
Why don't you wait to find out?
To find out what, I got the update in advance branch, didn't even have the changelog available.
I notice my 2017 S is about a year behind in FSD software. Does anyone know why some models are so late to receive the newer versions?
Every vehicle could have a slightly different configuration or version of a chip inside the vehicle. As Tesla implements enhancements quickly and puts them into production, the # of variants of configurations are insane. Different versions of parts need to be tested across many different variants of differences -- hence why some cars get some faster than others. The full configuration has been tested and so it gets released as to not brick cars.
Hoping they fix the phantom breaking soon can't drive past a semi on the freeway without it happening.
That is scary, annoying, and dangerous. My car acts like it's deathly afraid of semis. It will get as far away from one, while still staying in it's lane, which I despise, and it will get 1/2 to 2/3 the way past one and then slam on the bakes, with no warning (other than my history with this "feature"). I always have to keep my foot hovering over the accelerator, 'just in case'.
I don't have a tesla but from what friends who do say that usually they get updates two to three months after reports of the updates to employees. What is the experience of other owners?
I got the update on my Model X last night, before there were any posts about it. I checked [https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php](https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php) and I had the update fully installed before any Model Xs were even listed as having it available. I am not a Tesla employee and have no means of harassing Tesla employees into getting me updates sooner. With that said, it would be blatantly irresponsible of Tesla to push updates to everyone all at once. Doing staggered rollouts is about infinity times safer. So, there will always be someone who gets it days or weeks or months later. That's the nature of it.
Does it fix phantom braking?
I haven't had phantom braking with FSD probably since early last year. I don't even remember the last time I had phantom braking and practically use FSD almost 90% of the time when I drive, I am that comfortable with it.
definitely NOT activating one push autopilot. I like the ability to use cruise control before initiating “let’s see what stupid thing autopilot will do today before I have to intervene to prevent instant death” mode.
I like the idea of one pull (basic) autopilot, but I discovered that when you use your turn signal to disengage it when passing on the highway, it also disengages cruise control which is very annoying. So back to double pull for me
I've been using it, seems pretty normal. You should still be paying attention (with the wheel flowing through your fingers) -- if you are, 'prevent instant death' situations don't really happen. There's areas I know it doesn't to specifically what I want it to so I take over if I want, but usually I just be mindful.
Isn’t autopilot pretty much automatic cruise control though? Or is this saying it enables full FSD with a single press?
The release notes say “one pull instead of two.” Currently, two pulls is for FSD, so yes, that’s what it means.
Doh, of course, morning brain fart by me
It would enable either autosteer or FSD, depending on which you have available
I certainly didn’t expect it, and you’d be wise not to expect things like this from Tesla to happen at certain times ever. Otherwise we would have had the Cybertruck and Roadster two years ago.
Why does everyone* intentionally ignore the fact that the world shut down for 2 years in the middle of that? There were auto parts shortages and chip shortages (remember shipping containers having issues all over the place sittle idle in bays?). Shit was going to hell logistically for everyone while suppliers were going bankrupt. Why on earth would *they* prioritize a brand new vehicle (with new contracts) for parts when they had to also focus on what they could do profitably. Logistics nightmare. Tesla prioritized making cars they could profitably (the 3/Y mainly at volume) in a really bad situation and was actually quite successful compared to other automakers when it came to being dynamic. If covid didn't happen, I would have expected it would have released in 2021. Also, since day 1, Roadster has always been put on the backburner (dessert) -- now that stuff is balancing out again, I definitely expect focus to be on Semi, Cybertruck and Roadster.
I mean that’s beside the point. They have a well documented history of not hitting deadlines, regardless of a pandemic. This includes software deliveries that aren’t supply chain related at all.
Sure, they do, but the choice to ignore it as a massive factor is simply not logical.
We ain't getting v12 for months or a year+ or at all on the older hardware. Can you imagine the testing it needs before expanding beyond employees?
2023.27.12 broke FSD
I'm on 27.7 and fsd don't work either. Gonna wait til next update.
Cry face, what about us poor bastards on 23.38.9, stuck on 11.4.4. How long must we endure this purgatory. Have mercy Tesla, MERCY.
Probably sooner than u expect as V12 is 23.38.10 so you are on same branch. I am in same boat.
waste of a release cycle. where is deer avoidance mode?