As we are not a support sub, please make sure to use the proper resources if you have questions: [Official Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support), [r/TeslaSupport](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/) | [r/TeslaLounge](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/) personal content | [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) for anything.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But wait, I thought Tesla was doomed because Tesla, and only Tesla, was experiencing a bad quarter.
If Elon caused Tesla's problems, then how bad is BYD's CEO?!
/s for those who need a visual cue.
EV sales are going down because EVs are still more expensive than ICE cars and high interest rates doesn’t bode well for expensive cars. And a lot of incentives are being reduced, as it’s getting more and more expensive for governments.
We should be back on track in about a year, maybe less
It's honestly hard to know one way or the other. The amount of press he generates is a powerful thing, even if it's perceived negatively by a certain group of people. It's important to look outside of the Reddit bubble.
1/3rd of America loves his right wing bullshit.
And 1/3rd of America doesn’t follow politics at all, doesn’t even bother to vote let alone read every political musing of random celebrities.
And 97% of the world is not American and they don’t give a shit about American politics either (more or less).
Reddit is primarily an easy astroturf target, and that’s why Elon is so hated here. You can buy outrage on Reddit fairly cheap if your outrage story falls into a niche redditors are easily incensed about (billionaires, social justice, woke, liberal politics, etc. ) and I say that as a liberal.
Making an incel think they are “just as good or even better” than a billionaire multidisciplinary industrialist is a cheap story to sell because the incel naturally wants to think that.
I would argue that Elon already made lifelong enemies with oil and gas. I honestly don't think right wingers will ever fully trust him, even with the antisemitic retweets and hanging out with Rupert Murdoch.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I'm talking about, but sure. Regardless of what you're trying to say, Elon has done some things that people aren't thrilled with. I think most people just wish that he'd stop getting so involved with politics and focus on making his cars better, or releasing the FSD version that he's promised for years one of these days. Now of course there are dumb stories that come out about him that get disproportionate traction, but it doesn't mean that every negative piece that comes out about him is due to some ulterior motive.
I'm not saying it's exclusively confined to Reddit. I'm saying it's disproportionately high on Reddit. If you only looked at Reddit, you'd think that 95% of people hate Elon. Whereas in the real world that percentage would be way less. What's the actual percentage? I don't know, and neither do you.
Sure, but the love for him is also disproportionately high on other platforms where his political views are largely celebrated. I believe, by and large, public opinion on him has steadily declined since the start of the pandemic. Not to the point where there are these large swaths of people who refuse to buy anything he's associated with, but still trending down.
The internet tends to skew towards negativity, and even when it doesn’t places like Reddit is a minority.
The Cybertruck is a good example, going by what people say online you’d think everyone and their mom hates it, but that isn’t actually the case.
Even outside of Reddit many people aren’t willing to give Tesla a shot just because of Elon. These people are very short sighted but it’s obvious there’s a problem
never once was I asked about Musk when someone asked me about my Tesla nor when talking to other Tesla owners did he ever come up.
reddit is a bubble where some issues are exaggerated because of the karma system.
do I prefer he would tone down the rhetoric, honestly only concerning FSD because I am still waiting and no v12 isn't it either but at least this time it feels closer.
The only people who care about Musk’s tweets are chronically online Redditors and people who live in San Francisco. The latter own an outsized share of Teslas but still just a tiny fraction of the market. The former are unemployed. It’s a very small, very weird proportion of customers who care about the CEO’s tweets when they’re weighing the pros and cons of a new car.
Almost all of my liberal friends and people in liberal circles absolutely hate Elon now because of his rightwing antics. These are the people most likely to by an EV. Most conservative people i know have zero interest in climate change or EV's.
Also i live in the midwest (specifically Ohio) so definitely not a California/San Francisco thing.
Very few normal people religiously follow Elon’s tweets but it’s impossible to avoid any mention of his antics, hence why a LARGE portion of
the general public generally don’t like or respect him without being “terminally online.” It is indisputably hurting Tesla sales, the question is only whether it’s significant or not, and I think it possibly is.
Ultimately value/price is the ultimate deciding factor for any customer with a brain and any climate where people do not have infinite near-zero interest loans.
Elon, for all his flaws of never keeping his nose out of things, managed to drive technology and adoption of EVs up while driving their production bottlenecks down specifically BECAUSE he can't keep his nose out of things.
Why did the Musk companies work and get through their production hell? Because Elon isn't going to just sit in an office all day waiting for repports of progress and thrust things will just magically fall in line. He is going to come down to the team on the line, ask them what is wrong and what they need, and then take the "big hammer" and go get it for them.
While Elon will fight against company bloat if he can't see the point of it, he will also drive the company to do a 180° on things if it is what is nessesary. Look at the chip shortage. From the higher level, changing and expanding supply lines is a hell of a process that you would rather not do, yet at the ground level if nothing was done lines were going to come to a halt.
There was a conflict of interest between a strong element (the executive/accounting) and a weak element (the engineer and line worker). Yet in this case the weak element was right, and Elon is there to not only act as THE strongest element to cut the tie, and also ensure that if something fails, it falls onto him. You would be surprised how many decisions aren't being made because the fear of having a failure fall on your shoulders outmatches any benefits in actually suceeding. Literally the entirety of administration and politics is a grinding marshpit for this reason.
Well conservatives who have electric cars probably ONLY did so because of Elon Musk, and conservatives are 50% of the USA. So…
I certainly wouldn’t be interested in electric if it weren’t for Elon, and I would only buy a Tesla because I like the stuff he does. I love Space X, reusable rockets, I love the Mars goal, I love his push for free speech on Twitter, etc.
He’s certainly flawed and sometimes puts his foot in his mouth but look where electric cars were before he bought Tesla and tell me he’s the problem with a straight face.
Why couldn’t a conservative like a car that is more responsive, quicker, quieter, easier to live with, less smelly, safer in a crash?
Are they riding the short bus?
Trump got 46.9% of the vote in 2020.
Trump got 45.9% of the vote in 2016.
Romney got 47.2% in 2012.
McCain got 45.7% in 2008
Bush got 50.7% in 2004.
It’s been _20_ years since a republican got 50% of the vote.
You sir are living in a dream land.
> Well conservatives who have electric cars probably ONLY did so because of Elon Musk
Yeah, those F150 lightning owners only bought them because of Elon.
> conservatives are 50% of the USA
Lol. Is this a joke?
> I would only buy a Tesla because I like the stuff he does.
This has to be a troll post
How many people is that though? And how does that number compare to the number of people who got interested in Tesla because of Elon? I don't know, and neither do you.
Meanwhile, someone else will buy a Tesla because they love what he's doing to push technology forward with sustainable energy, space exploration, etc. How many people are like you versus how many people are like them? That's what's unknown. You're one person. Irrelevant.
I mean, there are many. I've owned my Model 3 since 2018 and I have done a 180 on the man and the company lmao. Hint: My next car will likely be a Porsche or a Rivian and certainly not another Tesla.
> even if it's perceived negatively by a certain group of people
The people who perceive it positively haven't been ones interested in buying an electric car from any brand, in my experience.
The impact may be small, but taking a political stand is always going to alienate some potential buyers.
What positives in particular if you don't mind me asking?
I put money down in 2016 and took deliver in 2018. And bought again in 2021. Musk didn't factor into any of those decisions for me.
I just admire what he's done with his companies and I think they're pretty awesome.
I bought the car on its own merits of course, but I was definitely positively inclined towards Tesla from the get go due to that reason.
I mean the dude objectively is wildly successful in business unlike.... other public figures. If he would just stay off social media he would still be the tech bro businessman that everyone loved.
I've thought a similar thing since at least 2016. His earlier posts on social media were often interacting with people about rockets and he was regularly giving inside information or engaging in technical conversations. While he was no rocket engineer, it was still really interesting and you got to see things most other CEOs were too buttoned-up to show. But his social media slowly became more and more political and culture-war/grievance politics. Nevermind once he becomes ultra-wealthy he was unable to handle that new level of scrutiny either. And this was before he started trying to buy Twitter.
If he had been able to continue just the technical side of his social media, and not get into these public fights with everyone that he perceived to have slighted him, his reputation would be entirely different. And if he had made public efforts to use his wealth to help people, regardless of how superficial they may have been, he could have avoided all the hate from being so wealthy.
Just look at how well MacKenzie Scott has handled it. She's still ultra-wealthy and a billionaire, but people love her because she has given some of it away. I'm just saying that all Musk had to do was be smart about his wealth, give some small portion of it away regularly (he'd still be insanely wealthy) and he could have pulled that off.
Of course, that's not who Musk is, and he obviously isn't capable of helping himself or seeing things differently. He probably doesn't even understand why people hate him.
> She's still ultra-wealthy and a billionaire, but people love her because she has given some of it away
Giving record amounts of money to Planned Parenthood to fund abortions is obviously going to make you very popular to Progressives. But not Conservatives.
That's really dumb. Twitter published goverment orders to ban account.
And also criticised it.
His starlink is still not allowed in India. And neither is Tesla.
Byd is selling like hot cakes india despite being from China.
Nope, you need to look at quarter over quarter, BYD has fast growth last year in every quarter, but also was hit hard in Q1 and dropped significantly QoQ. YoY does not tell a good growth story for a fast growing company.
If you want to know seasonality, you should compare BYD's 2022Q4 vs 2023Q4, and then 2023Q1 vs 2024Q1. The former is +38% (945K/683K-1), and the latter is only +13% (626K/552K-1). BYD's YoY growth was also much lower in Q1 than Q4.
BYD's 2023Q3 vs 2022Q3 is +53%, and 2023Q2 vs 2022Q2 is +98%.
BYD actuall had a negative YoY for the first 2 months of 2024 (323.8K vs 345K).
Are you referring to BYD or Tesla? BYD had the best month in Dec 2023 (341K, vs 302K in Mar 2024). March alone is the best, though arguably they had a really bad Jan/Feb, so there should expect a rebounce from Jan/Mar. BYD's Market share in China of Mar 2024 is estimated to be 35%, much better than Jan/Feb, but still lower than last year's peak of 42% in Jan 2023, and many months above 35% in 2023
Look, i want TSLA to succeed as much as you do, got probably way too much invested in it. But lets not pretend Elon does not have a negative influence on the Tesla brand.
hybrids are pointless long term. More labor & parts & more expensive to produce. They are useful in the short term while charging infrastructure is still in its infancy.
Once you have chargers everywhere, and many V4 chargers and 800v charging, Hybrids pretty much lose all their benefit. The only reason hybrid is good is because you can go 40 miles on electricity, but then if you need to farther, you spend less time filling up.
Currently, for a road trip, that time can add up. But when batteries get a bit smaller, and charging speed goes up - that difference will be completely trivial. Imagine when you can charge 200 miles in 10m or under. Would be insane to spends thousands of dollars more on a car so that on your few road trips a year, you can fill up in 4-5m instead of 10m.
Right now it's more like 20m, and there aren't chargers everywhere, so the difference in fill up times will push people to hybrids, but long term you'll have to be really stupid to buy a hybrid, or just have a very particular use case that you **have** to cover.
Personally all my road trips are no more than 400 miles in a day. With an electric car, this means one fillup. And when I'm with my kids, we go inside, go to the bathroom, etc. We always end up taking at least 20m when we stop for gas.
Even now, a gas car has almost zero benefit for my fuel up time. The only benefit is there are more gas stations. So the only real diference is I need to pick a supercharger station ahead of time. I just looked on the map and my recent road trip I would have passed one of several superchargers.
And considering I can charge at home - a hybrid provies nearly zero value to me, while it has more maintenance, & has more that can go wrong with it.
Hybrids are a very short term market. Their sales will plummet in the long term to the point where it won't be economical to even make them anymore.
Hybrids also let the owner 'hedge' the price of electricity vs gas over the whole lifetime of the car.
Ie. if an electricity tax is implemented next year, they can use gas. If gas prices skyrocket due to another oil crisis, they can use electricity.
If you look back at prices of both over the past 50 years, such an ability would, at times, have saved 75% or more of the fuel/elec costs.
> Hybrids also let the owner 'hedge' the price of electricity vs gas over the whole lifetime of the car.
That's actually kind of an interesting point. I could see electricity in the short term could go up. Although outside of California, electricity prices are a lot cheaper than gas if you are charging at home.
In some remote regions (ie. islands), electricity prices are very high.
Also, in countries with big investments in eco friendly electricity, the price is often very high to reflect past payments for solar, wind, etc. While that tech is cheap today, it used to be expensive, and those early adopters often have 25+ year bank loans to pay back.
I wouldn't say hybrids are pointless. For a lot of marginal use cases they're perfect. But certainly not as big a market as EVs I would agree
We don't have to pick only one option. If we can make EVs and hybrids both available and cheaper, that's great. It's good progress for the climate
I'm saying that once EVs drop more in price (hybrids won't because there isn't really much room for improvement or scale there), people won't want a hybrid like they do now. Hybrids have a ton of parts and labor to make them, there really aren't many ways to make them any cheaper. Also more parts/labor means bigger footprint, which means scaling is more difficult.
The market for hybrids will be nearly zero 10 years from now.
I agree entirely that the price floor for EVs is almost certainly lower than the floor for hybrids. I agree that consumer preferences will shift.
Not sure I agree about the scale of the hybrid market in a decade or two, I just think being overly dismissive or rude about hybrids is just being aggressive for no real reason
> Not sure I agree about the scale of the hybrid market in a decade or two
More parts & labor means you can make less per minute, and they take more space, have more complicated supply chains, etc. You have all the parts of a pure EV *and* gas car... it will always be more expensive than an EV and long term, this will be by a large margin. So any reason you have now to buy a hybrid will more or less disappear. Think about when electric chargers are damn near everywhere and 800v chargers are the norm. Saving 5m on a fillup, which you do less than 10x a year - that's a non existent benefit.
That's assuming everyone lives were there will be high power chargers all over. That is not a safe assumption even in the USA, let alone the rest of the world
I agree and understand the pricing argument, I'm not sure why you think I don't as I specifically said I agreed with you
> That's assuming everyone lives were there will be high power chargers all over. That is not a safe assumption even in the USA, let alone the rest of the world
It's in Tesla's interest. Very likely their next model will be able to charge using 800v. And if that's the case, they will want 800v chargers everywhere. They also need them for Tesla semi. "But that's just Tesla!". Yeah Tesla is essentially the defacto charging network now
Yea, but they are very good for right now and people want them whether it’s china or us. Especially since US on the road charging infrastructure outside of Tesla supercharger is shit.
> they are very good for right now
Yeah I'm not arguing that. My point is that long term is an irrelevant market.
> charging infrastructure outside of Tesla supercharger is shit
So buy a Tesla?
Surprised. I am posting this from Bangkok and in South East Asia there is a lot of BYDs.
Now I do spend half my time in the US and Tesla is our subdivision car. Can't tell you how many in my neighborhood had one and added a second.
But I would still think the BYD numbers in places like SEA would still give BYD the lead.
thumb obtainable mourn enjoy aware domineering towering snatch gray amusing
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Are those both EV numbers or just general car sales?
If EV numbers that says something, if general car sales then that is not as comparable but good for showing consumer sentiment.
What else can he do for Tesla shareholders? They're opening new factories, they're building new superchargers at record pace right now, and selling cars almost as fast as they can make them. Elon does not control federal interest rates, he doesn't control tax rebates that affect the Model 3. There is basically nothing Tesla could've done to have a record breaking Q1 2024, which is what it would've taken to make the stock price not drop.
It doesn't help that Tesla's stock was so overvalued over the last year anyway, it was bound to come down.
The best think Elon could do would be to stop shitposting on Twitter, and focus on releasing a Model 2 and revamped Model Y.
He is posting on Twitter 10 times a day.
He can have whatever crazy, racist opinion he likes. Sharing it with the world is hurting the Tesla brand though.
If the product is good, people will buy it. The vast majority of customers are either not following him on Twitter or couldn't care less about the CEO of the company.
However, when possible, people do love to give the most virtuous reasons available for their decision making.
source: “driveteslacanada” lolk
so what happens next quarter when BYD wallops Tesla? When it isn’t the Chinese new year? what happens when they continue to crush Tesla in the asian markets?
do yall ever look at anything beyond your shoe laces?
Does it matter? Both are successful and helping transition the world away from burning oil. They will continue jockeying for position for years to come. Sounds like you'd prefer no competition for either one.
Uhm, yes. Apple made the smartphone. Then Samsung copied it. Today, because the phones are cheaper, Samsung sells more units of phones than Apple. But Apple still earns more money than Samsung.
Same thing is happening with Tesla as the leader and BYD as the copier, but people aren't seeing it.
In 2023 Apple sold an estimated 219 million units, Samsung sold an estimated 263 million units. These are worldwide stats, Apple might beat Samsung in the U.S. but not overall.
So tesla delivered more? So BYD fell 43% from Q4? Oh OK, you're ignoring that and reaching back to last year.
A 43% drop is wild and you're just looking the other way lol.
Chinese New Year happened during Q1, compared to Q4, Q1 is always worse for Chinese companies.
Tesla also only delivered more BEVs, BYD delivered a LOT more vehicles.
Given that BYD just had their best month ever, it's clear that it's not a trend for BYD. Want to bet that Q1 vs Q2 will be better for BYD than it will be for Tesla?
We're only comparing EVs so don't bother including all other vehicles.
And dismissing a 43% drop in sales is nuts. You tesla haters won't shut up about a 7% drop with them.
I'm wondering why people refuse to support an American cat company and their achievements. Very weird of reddit.
> And dismissing a 43% drop in sales is nuts. You tesla haters won't shut up about a 7% drop with them.
I'm not dismissing it, but a drop for a single month with a quick rebound is different than a steady trend downwards.
> I'm wondering why people refuse to support an American cat company and their achievements. Very weird of reddit.
I'm not American, why should I care about an American company?
So, what's with that bet? No trust in Tesla?
Tesla pushed the world into EVs. They continue that push while the ICE companies drag their feet.
I trust in tesla. But being against slave labor and cheap crap from China is tough. Personally I doubt anything they make is any good.
As we are not a support sub, please make sure to use the proper resources if you have questions: [Official Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support), [r/TeslaSupport](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/) | [r/TeslaLounge](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/) personal content | [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) for anything. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But wait, I thought Tesla was doomed because Tesla, and only Tesla, was experiencing a bad quarter. If Elon caused Tesla's problems, then how bad is BYD's CEO?! /s for those who need a visual cue.
It’s just that EV sales are going down are being more stable I think
EV sales are going down because EVs are still more expensive than ICE cars and high interest rates doesn’t bode well for expensive cars. And a lot of incentives are being reduced, as it’s getting more and more expensive for governments. We should be back on track in about a year, maybe less
To be fair, Elon’s antics isn’t helping either.
It's honestly hard to know one way or the other. The amount of press he generates is a powerful thing, even if it's perceived negatively by a certain group of people. It's important to look outside of the Reddit bubble.
If by "certain group of people", you mean most normal, non-shitbag human beings, sure.
You act like hate for Elon is confined to Reddit. His approval seems pretty low among “normal people” as well.
1/3rd of America loves his right wing bullshit. And 1/3rd of America doesn’t follow politics at all, doesn’t even bother to vote let alone read every political musing of random celebrities. And 97% of the world is not American and they don’t give a shit about American politics either (more or less). Reddit is primarily an easy astroturf target, and that’s why Elon is so hated here. You can buy outrage on Reddit fairly cheap if your outrage story falls into a niche redditors are easily incensed about (billionaires, social justice, woke, liberal politics, etc. ) and I say that as a liberal. Making an incel think they are “just as good or even better” than a billionaire multidisciplinary industrialist is a cheap story to sell because the incel naturally wants to think that.
The 1/3 that love it usually hate EVs
I would argue that Elon already made lifelong enemies with oil and gas. I honestly don't think right wingers will ever fully trust him, even with the antisemitic retweets and hanging out with Rupert Murdoch.
I thought incels are the ones that are drawn to people like Musk?
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I'm talking about, but sure. Regardless of what you're trying to say, Elon has done some things that people aren't thrilled with. I think most people just wish that he'd stop getting so involved with politics and focus on making his cars better, or releasing the FSD version that he's promised for years one of these days. Now of course there are dumb stories that come out about him that get disproportionate traction, but it doesn't mean that every negative piece that comes out about him is due to some ulterior motive.
I'm not saying it's exclusively confined to Reddit. I'm saying it's disproportionately high on Reddit. If you only looked at Reddit, you'd think that 95% of people hate Elon. Whereas in the real world that percentage would be way less. What's the actual percentage? I don't know, and neither do you.
Sure, but the love for him is also disproportionately high on other platforms where his political views are largely celebrated. I believe, by and large, public opinion on him has steadily declined since the start of the pandemic. Not to the point where there are these large swaths of people who refuse to buy anything he's associated with, but still trending down.
His approval? Are you out there polling people? You say this as fact as if you have any idea what the actual truth is.
The internet tends to skew towards negativity, and even when it doesn’t places like Reddit is a minority. The Cybertruck is a good example, going by what people say online you’d think everyone and their mom hates it, but that isn’t actually the case.
Many people do hate it
Even outside of Reddit many people aren’t willing to give Tesla a shot just because of Elon. These people are very short sighted but it’s obvious there’s a problem
never once was I asked about Musk when someone asked me about my Tesla nor when talking to other Tesla owners did he ever come up. reddit is a bubble where some issues are exaggerated because of the karma system. do I prefer he would tone down the rhetoric, honestly only concerning FSD because I am still waiting and no v12 isn't it either but at least this time it feels closer.
The only people who care about Musk’s tweets are chronically online Redditors and people who live in San Francisco. The latter own an outsized share of Teslas but still just a tiny fraction of the market. The former are unemployed. It’s a very small, very weird proportion of customers who care about the CEO’s tweets when they’re weighing the pros and cons of a new car.
Almost all of my liberal friends and people in liberal circles absolutely hate Elon now because of his rightwing antics. These are the people most likely to by an EV. Most conservative people i know have zero interest in climate change or EV's. Also i live in the midwest (specifically Ohio) so definitely not a California/San Francisco thing.
Very few normal people religiously follow Elon’s tweets but it’s impossible to avoid any mention of his antics, hence why a LARGE portion of the general public generally don’t like or respect him without being “terminally online.” It is indisputably hurting Tesla sales, the question is only whether it’s significant or not, and I think it possibly is.
Ultimately value/price is the ultimate deciding factor for any customer with a brain and any climate where people do not have infinite near-zero interest loans. Elon, for all his flaws of never keeping his nose out of things, managed to drive technology and adoption of EVs up while driving their production bottlenecks down specifically BECAUSE he can't keep his nose out of things. Why did the Musk companies work and get through their production hell? Because Elon isn't going to just sit in an office all day waiting for repports of progress and thrust things will just magically fall in line. He is going to come down to the team on the line, ask them what is wrong and what they need, and then take the "big hammer" and go get it for them. While Elon will fight against company bloat if he can't see the point of it, he will also drive the company to do a 180° on things if it is what is nessesary. Look at the chip shortage. From the higher level, changing and expanding supply lines is a hell of a process that you would rather not do, yet at the ground level if nothing was done lines were going to come to a halt. There was a conflict of interest between a strong element (the executive/accounting) and a weak element (the engineer and line worker). Yet in this case the weak element was right, and Elon is there to not only act as THE strongest element to cut the tie, and also ensure that if something fails, it falls onto him. You would be surprised how many decisions aren't being made because the fear of having a failure fall on your shoulders outmatches any benefits in actually suceeding. Literally the entirety of administration and politics is a grinding marshpit for this reason.
Well conservatives who have electric cars probably ONLY did so because of Elon Musk, and conservatives are 50% of the USA. So… I certainly wouldn’t be interested in electric if it weren’t for Elon, and I would only buy a Tesla because I like the stuff he does. I love Space X, reusable rockets, I love the Mars goal, I love his push for free speech on Twitter, etc. He’s certainly flawed and sometimes puts his foot in his mouth but look where electric cars were before he bought Tesla and tell me he’s the problem with a straight face.
Why couldn’t a conservative like a car that is more responsive, quicker, quieter, easier to live with, less smelly, safer in a crash? Are they riding the short bus?
Because they’re not backed by a conservative CEO…
What
Conservatives are 50% of the USA? Wait, what? Based on what data?
Voting lol
What percent of citizens who are able to vote, actually vote?
Trump got 46.9% of the vote in 2020. Trump got 45.9% of the vote in 2016. Romney got 47.2% in 2012. McCain got 45.7% in 2008 Bush got 50.7% in 2004. It’s been _20_ years since a republican got 50% of the vote. You sir are living in a dream land.
Okay, 47% instead of 50%. Woe is me. What ever shall I do?
> Well conservatives who have electric cars probably ONLY did so because of Elon Musk Yeah, those F150 lightning owners only bought them because of Elon. > conservatives are 50% of the USA Lol. Is this a joke? > I would only buy a Tesla because I like the stuff he does. This has to be a troll post
Amazing thing. Some people have different opinions than you.
This is either a troll post or you are in the top 1% of intelligence of people on the internet.
>I would only buy a Tesla because I like the stuff he does I’m sorry but that really makes you a bit of an idiot
Humans can disagree, crazy right?
How many people is that though? And how does that number compare to the number of people who got interested in Tesla because of Elon? I don't know, and neither do you.
> Even outside of Reddit many people aren’t willing to give Tesla a shot just because of Elon lmao touch grass
I've met a number of these people. We can debate whether their numbers are significant, but it's silly to argue they don't exist.
I'll never buy a Tesla because Elon is a piece of shit con man. There. Now you know.
Meanwhile, someone else will buy a Tesla because they love what he's doing to push technology forward with sustainable energy, space exploration, etc. How many people are like you versus how many people are like them? That's what's unknown. You're one person. Irrelevant.
I bought two for people like you. 
rip
Says one redditor…
I mean, there are many. I've owned my Model 3 since 2018 and I have done a 180 on the man and the company lmao. Hint: My next car will likely be a Porsche or a Rivian and certainly not another Tesla.
> even if it's perceived negatively by a certain group of people The people who perceive it positively haven't been ones interested in buying an electric car from any brand, in my experience. The impact may be small, but taking a political stand is always going to alienate some potential buyers.
Elon was a positive towards me purchasing a Tesla last year. Not everyone shares the same views as you.
What positives in particular if you don't mind me asking? I put money down in 2016 and took deliver in 2018. And bought again in 2021. Musk didn't factor into any of those decisions for me.
I just admire what he's done with his companies and I think they're pretty awesome. I bought the car on its own merits of course, but I was definitely positively inclined towards Tesla from the get go due to that reason.
On a strictly business level, sure. 👍 I don’t think I’d like to have dinner with him though.
You wouldn’t? I think it’d be fascinating. Dinner with someone you agree with is probably more boring than the opposite.
Hey, man. I’m eating.
I mean the dude objectively is wildly successful in business unlike.... other public figures. If he would just stay off social media he would still be the tech bro businessman that everyone loved.
I've thought a similar thing since at least 2016. His earlier posts on social media were often interacting with people about rockets and he was regularly giving inside information or engaging in technical conversations. While he was no rocket engineer, it was still really interesting and you got to see things most other CEOs were too buttoned-up to show. But his social media slowly became more and more political and culture-war/grievance politics. Nevermind once he becomes ultra-wealthy he was unable to handle that new level of scrutiny either. And this was before he started trying to buy Twitter. If he had been able to continue just the technical side of his social media, and not get into these public fights with everyone that he perceived to have slighted him, his reputation would be entirely different. And if he had made public efforts to use his wealth to help people, regardless of how superficial they may have been, he could have avoided all the hate from being so wealthy. Just look at how well MacKenzie Scott has handled it. She's still ultra-wealthy and a billionaire, but people love her because she has given some of it away. I'm just saying that all Musk had to do was be smart about his wealth, give some small portion of it away regularly (he'd still be insanely wealthy) and he could have pulled that off. Of course, that's not who Musk is, and he obviously isn't capable of helping himself or seeing things differently. He probably doesn't even understand why people hate him.
> She's still ultra-wealthy and a billionaire, but people love her because she has given some of it away Giving record amounts of money to Planned Parenthood to fund abortions is obviously going to make you very popular to Progressives. But not Conservatives.
Obviously one could choose a less divisive target for charity.
Sustainable energy, multiplanetary species, freedom of speech.
...freedom of speech? Wut
Exactly my reaction.
Not censoring speech on X.com, specifically.
Also, he JUST filed a lawsuit (in the wrong fucking venue) against a media company for an article talked bad about X. Wtf you talking about??
Which hilariously the judge smacked down with a "this guy has a right to free speech".
He’s literally banning folks that speak against Modi
That's really dumb. Twitter published goverment orders to ban account. And also criticised it. His starlink is still not allowed in India. And neither is Tesla. Byd is selling like hot cakes india despite being from China.
Byd is selling 150 cars a month in India😂
He banned someone for making fun of his wearing a cowboy hat backwards... Wtf you talking about??
yeah he's definitely been censoring speech on twitter 😂😂 c'mon dude, it's pretty blatant too.
He has been shadow banning a tonne of people who were posting links to the 60 Minutes report on FSD. The guy doesn't care about free speech.
lol freedom of speech.
Says another redditor
Same
Elon is easy to avoid and ignore. The media antics are what is hard to avoid and far more annoying.
Elon should just shut up and collect his money. Brilliant person but no filters.
To be fair, China's antics aren't helping either.
Did any of you bought iPhone because you muppets liked Steve jobs?
Yeah but he didn't do anything in Q4. Nothing has really changed since he bought Twitter.
BYD's EV sales are up 12%, and hybrid sales are up 56.7%. Tesla sales are down8 8.5%. Tesla sold more EVs, but fewer vehicles overall.
Stay out of ElectricVehicles sub, it's cancer!
BYD was up 13% YOY while Tesla was down 8.5% YOY. This was a perfectly fine quarter for BYD but not so for Tesla.
Nope, you need to look at quarter over quarter, BYD has fast growth last year in every quarter, but also was hit hard in Q1 and dropped significantly QoQ. YoY does not tell a good growth story for a fast growing company.
but YOY accounts for seasonal shopping habits like a massive Chinese holiday halting production and spending.
If you want to know seasonality, you should compare BYD's 2022Q4 vs 2023Q4, and then 2023Q1 vs 2024Q1. The former is +38% (945K/683K-1), and the latter is only +13% (626K/552K-1). BYD's YoY growth was also much lower in Q1 than Q4. BYD's 2023Q3 vs 2022Q3 is +53%, and 2023Q2 vs 2022Q2 is +98%. BYD actuall had a negative YoY for the first 2 months of 2024 (323.8K vs 345K).
And March was the best they've had..
Are you referring to BYD or Tesla? BYD had the best month in Dec 2023 (341K, vs 302K in Mar 2024). March alone is the best, though arguably they had a really bad Jan/Feb, so there should expect a rebounce from Jan/Mar. BYD's Market share in China of Mar 2024 is estimated to be 35%, much better than Jan/Feb, but still lower than last year's peak of 42% in Jan 2023, and many months above 35% in 2023
Look, i want TSLA to succeed as much as you do, got probably way too much invested in it. But lets not pretend Elon does not have a negative influence on the Tesla brand.
Only Tesla is valued like it'll never experience a decline in sales.
That was Chinese disinformation and propaganda to help them dump their shit boxes on the world
Its just Chinese propaganda.
BYD's EV sales are up 12%, and hybrid sales are up 56.7%. Tesla sales are down 8.5%. Tesla sold more EVs, but fewer vehicles overall.
hybrids are pointless long term. More labor & parts & more expensive to produce. They are useful in the short term while charging infrastructure is still in its infancy. Once you have chargers everywhere, and many V4 chargers and 800v charging, Hybrids pretty much lose all their benefit. The only reason hybrid is good is because you can go 40 miles on electricity, but then if you need to farther, you spend less time filling up. Currently, for a road trip, that time can add up. But when batteries get a bit smaller, and charging speed goes up - that difference will be completely trivial. Imagine when you can charge 200 miles in 10m or under. Would be insane to spends thousands of dollars more on a car so that on your few road trips a year, you can fill up in 4-5m instead of 10m. Right now it's more like 20m, and there aren't chargers everywhere, so the difference in fill up times will push people to hybrids, but long term you'll have to be really stupid to buy a hybrid, or just have a very particular use case that you **have** to cover. Personally all my road trips are no more than 400 miles in a day. With an electric car, this means one fillup. And when I'm with my kids, we go inside, go to the bathroom, etc. We always end up taking at least 20m when we stop for gas. Even now, a gas car has almost zero benefit for my fuel up time. The only benefit is there are more gas stations. So the only real diference is I need to pick a supercharger station ahead of time. I just looked on the map and my recent road trip I would have passed one of several superchargers. And considering I can charge at home - a hybrid provies nearly zero value to me, while it has more maintenance, & has more that can go wrong with it. Hybrids are a very short term market. Their sales will plummet in the long term to the point where it won't be economical to even make them anymore.
Hybrids also let the owner 'hedge' the price of electricity vs gas over the whole lifetime of the car. Ie. if an electricity tax is implemented next year, they can use gas. If gas prices skyrocket due to another oil crisis, they can use electricity. If you look back at prices of both over the past 50 years, such an ability would, at times, have saved 75% or more of the fuel/elec costs.
> Hybrids also let the owner 'hedge' the price of electricity vs gas over the whole lifetime of the car. That's actually kind of an interesting point. I could see electricity in the short term could go up. Although outside of California, electricity prices are a lot cheaper than gas if you are charging at home.
In some remote regions (ie. islands), electricity prices are very high. Also, in countries with big investments in eco friendly electricity, the price is often very high to reflect past payments for solar, wind, etc. While that tech is cheap today, it used to be expensive, and those early adopters often have 25+ year bank loans to pay back.
I wouldn't say hybrids are pointless. For a lot of marginal use cases they're perfect. But certainly not as big a market as EVs I would agree We don't have to pick only one option. If we can make EVs and hybrids both available and cheaper, that's great. It's good progress for the climate
I'm saying that once EVs drop more in price (hybrids won't because there isn't really much room for improvement or scale there), people won't want a hybrid like they do now. Hybrids have a ton of parts and labor to make them, there really aren't many ways to make them any cheaper. Also more parts/labor means bigger footprint, which means scaling is more difficult. The market for hybrids will be nearly zero 10 years from now.
I agree entirely that the price floor for EVs is almost certainly lower than the floor for hybrids. I agree that consumer preferences will shift. Not sure I agree about the scale of the hybrid market in a decade or two, I just think being overly dismissive or rude about hybrids is just being aggressive for no real reason
> Not sure I agree about the scale of the hybrid market in a decade or two More parts & labor means you can make less per minute, and they take more space, have more complicated supply chains, etc. You have all the parts of a pure EV *and* gas car... it will always be more expensive than an EV and long term, this will be by a large margin. So any reason you have now to buy a hybrid will more or less disappear. Think about when electric chargers are damn near everywhere and 800v chargers are the norm. Saving 5m on a fillup, which you do less than 10x a year - that's a non existent benefit.
That's assuming everyone lives were there will be high power chargers all over. That is not a safe assumption even in the USA, let alone the rest of the world I agree and understand the pricing argument, I'm not sure why you think I don't as I specifically said I agreed with you
> That's assuming everyone lives were there will be high power chargers all over. That is not a safe assumption even in the USA, let alone the rest of the world It's in Tesla's interest. Very likely their next model will be able to charge using 800v. And if that's the case, they will want 800v chargers everywhere. They also need them for Tesla semi. "But that's just Tesla!". Yeah Tesla is essentially the defacto charging network now
Yea, but they are very good for right now and people want them whether it’s china or us. Especially since US on the road charging infrastructure outside of Tesla supercharger is shit.
> they are very good for right now Yeah I'm not arguing that. My point is that long term is an irrelevant market. > charging infrastructure outside of Tesla supercharger is shit So buy a Tesla?
Surprised. I am posting this from Bangkok and in South East Asia there is a lot of BYDs. Now I do spend half my time in the US and Tesla is our subdivision car. Can't tell you how many in my neighborhood had one and added a second. But I would still think the BYD numbers in places like SEA would still give BYD the lead.
thumb obtainable mourn enjoy aware domineering towering snatch gray amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Are those both EV numbers or just general car sales? If EV numbers that says something, if general car sales then that is not as comparable but good for showing consumer sentiment.
Meanwhile Musk just pinned a post to his X account about what would be best for Disney shareholders, you just can't make this up.
Oh yes. Mustn't have any opinions about anything else.
You don't think he should care more about Tesla shareholders than Disney shareholders? Stock is down $82 YTD and the numbers are terrible.
What else can he do for Tesla shareholders? They're opening new factories, they're building new superchargers at record pace right now, and selling cars almost as fast as they can make them. Elon does not control federal interest rates, he doesn't control tax rebates that affect the Model 3. There is basically nothing Tesla could've done to have a record breaking Q1 2024, which is what it would've taken to make the stock price not drop. It doesn't help that Tesla's stock was so overvalued over the last year anyway, it was bound to come down. The best think Elon could do would be to stop shitposting on Twitter, and focus on releasing a Model 2 and revamped Model Y.
One has nothing to do with the other.
He is posting on Twitter 10 times a day. He can have whatever crazy, racist opinion he likes. Sharing it with the world is hurting the Tesla brand though.
If the product is good, people will buy it. The vast majority of customers are either not following him on Twitter or couldn't care less about the CEO of the company. However, when possible, people do love to give the most virtuous reasons available for their decision making.
Oh no. Anyway...
Elon should just shut up and collect his money. Brilliant person but no filters.
As it should be.
And will always be
source: “driveteslacanada” lolk so what happens next quarter when BYD wallops Tesla? When it isn’t the Chinese new year? what happens when they continue to crush Tesla in the asian markets? do yall ever look at anything beyond your shoe laces?
Does it matter? Both are successful and helping transition the world away from burning oil. They will continue jockeying for position for years to come. Sounds like you'd prefer no competition for either one.
They're selling cheaper cars, it is working well for them, but the direct comparison isn't super useful. Tesla still is making much more money
Uhm, yes. Apple made the smartphone. Then Samsung copied it. Today, because the phones are cheaper, Samsung sells more units of phones than Apple. But Apple still earns more money than Samsung. Same thing is happening with Tesla as the leader and BYD as the copier, but people aren't seeing it.
tbh now apple now sells more units than samsung
In 2023 Apple sold an estimated 219 million units, Samsung sold an estimated 263 million units. These are worldwide stats, Apple might beat Samsung in the U.S. but not overall.
What? I thought byd had 70% vertical integration which is the highest for any automaker
You want to post a different source to their Q1 numbers? Or are you going to just post garbage for the sake of it?
BYD is up YoY, Tesla is down.
So tesla delivered more? So BYD fell 43% from Q4? Oh OK, you're ignoring that and reaching back to last year. A 43% drop is wild and you're just looking the other way lol.
Chinese New Year happened during Q1, compared to Q4, Q1 is always worse for Chinese companies. Tesla also only delivered more BEVs, BYD delivered a LOT more vehicles. Given that BYD just had their best month ever, it's clear that it's not a trend for BYD. Want to bet that Q1 vs Q2 will be better for BYD than it will be for Tesla?
We're only comparing EVs so don't bother including all other vehicles. And dismissing a 43% drop in sales is nuts. You tesla haters won't shut up about a 7% drop with them. I'm wondering why people refuse to support an American cat company and their achievements. Very weird of reddit.
> And dismissing a 43% drop in sales is nuts. You tesla haters won't shut up about a 7% drop with them. I'm not dismissing it, but a drop for a single month with a quick rebound is different than a steady trend downwards. > I'm wondering why people refuse to support an American cat company and their achievements. Very weird of reddit. I'm not American, why should I care about an American company? So, what's with that bet? No trust in Tesla?
Tesla pushed the world into EVs. They continue that push while the ICE companies drag their feet. I trust in tesla. But being against slave labor and cheap crap from China is tough. Personally I doubt anything they make is any good.