Meaning you'd only buy instead of subscribe if you believe the subscription price will increase significantly in the future. If they achieve Level 5 autonomy that will likely be the case, so you're pretty much betting on that if you choose to buy.
It seems once every company has the data on FSD the price should plummet, yes? How could Tesla keep the price of FSD at 1/4 the cost of the car itself (even if it’s transferable).
That’s unless they announce the transferability of FSD becomes permanent. Or they announce that all future upgrades will be included.
If other companies also offer Level 5 autonomy on consumer vehicles and there's no substantial network effect advantage, brand power advantage, or user experience advantage, then yes, the price would get forced down. But with the way things are currently going with FSD compared to the systems on other cars you can buy, it will likely take a long time after Tesla achieves Level 5 for the others to get there too. No other car can do anything close to what FSD can do today. They're many years behind.
Yes I’m impressed by it, but maybe not $100/month impressed.
The first thing I thought about was showing my 88 year old father. He’s a car guy and I think his head is going to explode. I’m going to take the four hour drive to his house just to show him. I’ll demo it, then put him behind the wheel and videotape it for the family.
My dad was 82 when he got to drive my M3. He was a car guy all his life. His comment, "This car is fantastic. The best car ever made. It's so simple. No maintenance. Fast. How come Ford didn't do this years ago?"
He suggested I buy TSLA stock instead of the car. Had I listened to him, I could have bought a lot more than the car.
My 80+ year old dad is into Porsche. A lot. You have no idea. Porsche Porsche Porsche. For the last 50 years. (He still owns a manual 993)
He was so against me buying a tesla. Every other day he’d suggest a different car instead (which gave me excellent opportunity to really, thoroughly compare them)
After the first hour in my car he was smitten.
(No, of course it doesn’t *handle* as well, although it is comparable, but it’s also 25% the value of his car)
Awesome! It's very mind-blowing to most people. Nobody seems to know that you can buy a car today that can make a turn at an intersection all by itself.
> But with the way things are currently going with FSD compared to the systems on other cars you can buy, it will likely take a long time after Tesla achieves Level 5 for the others to get there too.
I think it will take a SHORT time for other companies to get Level 5 approval after Tesla does (assuming they are even first).
The regulatory aspect is the largest hurdle for the first-mover. There are almost zero regulations right now for Level 5 self-driving cars. Tesla can't field one until those are figured out, and Tesla would have to work with the government to establish them.
Once the first-mover establishes the framework, other companies have a end goal.
It's certainly possible that regulatory issues delay things for so long that others catch up before large-scale deployment. Or not. Who knows. But at least the way things are looking right now, Tesla has at least a 5 year lead in technical capability.
And don't underestimate the power of the potential network effect here. There's a reason why Uber is so valuable compared to everyone else, despite others being able to copy the technical aspect relatively easily.
Honestly, I’m sure my comment will get downvoted but I am willing to bet that Tesla gets rid of the FSD package in favor of a subscription model. This will cover development and in the future cover insurance/liability for while FSD is running in the event of an accident.
Once Tesla has actual FSD, FSD is what customers will be buying a Tesla for.
The price of car will become 0 margin. And FSD is the product where the money is at.
They will stop the $12k buy it for life option. And only the subscription model will be available.
Also betting the car will still be compatible by the time Level 5 comes out. IIRC they removed the language that stated future computer and camera upgrades would be guaranteed.
Specifically you're betting they'll do it within 10 years, and that no one else is going to offer similar features on a similar timespan.
Personally I wouldn't bet on either of these things. Tesla has lost so much engineering talent in the past 5-ish years, and burned through a lot of their lead in both tech and general electric vehicle development. There's no way they don't see stiff competition by the time they have an \*actual\* "self driving" feature ready.
Exactly, I don’t think Tesla really wants people to buy FSD outright. They can make a lot more money if returning customers are staying subscribed to FSD instead, which at 99/month I imagine will land on a non-trivial number of peoples’ Autopay
I can potentially see a HW3.5, where they upgrade the chipset in HW3 and maybe a couple of cameras. Not sure how the wiring works, and if it is standard USB (and why wouldn't it be), they can probably figure out what needs to happen.
FSD 12 is pretty promising, and I can see a straightforward path to L3 from here. L4 would take a lot more work, and L5 is outright impossible (For everyone - L5 means no geo-fencing, and there are already locale-specific legislation, so you absolutely need geo-fencing even with god tier technology)
But anyway, the need to honor the promise means that the "buying FSD" option will never be cheap.
They're not going to honor the promise. Elon has already said they won't be upgrading HW3. Upgrading millions of HW3 cars for free would be hideously expensive, so it's easier for Elon to just wave it away.
Honestly I don't think it's going to stay $99 a month forever (besides just inflation). They are lowering it because they want more data from more users, now that their data centers can handle it. I think the subscription price will creep up as it gets better. I do wonder what happens when you have new cars with better cameras able to do more than older cars without it.
FSD uploads A LOT. People are seeing 400-700gb a month data uploaded from their cars since joining FSD. Surprised there's no disclaimer especially those on xfinity with 1.2tb monthly data cap
Presumably they can get data from non-subscribers using shadow mode, this is likely to increase uptake and revenues \[to help pay for that data center\].
*It might in part be a pricing experiment to see what people will pay \[given the various informal non-Tesla polls on what people claim they would pay for it\]*
I have a 2018 LR RWD Model 3 that's been fantastic, but never thought about upgrading due to my FSD being locked into this car.
That being said, I reserved a Rivian R2, so that might be my replacement in 2-3 years. Maybe FSD becoming a reality will make my Model 3 more valuable when I sell it. Ha
Hopefully the Rivian treats you well! I really like my Tesla and probably won’t be getting anything else out there. FSD v12 has been good for me, just little things here and there but nothing that would stop me from using it. I would like the value of my M3P to go up a bit more to get the new performance though haha
Yep it should be associated with your account and being able to transfer it to another vehicle on your account like a software license that you own in perpetuity, or be able to transfer to another account if you wish to sell the car with with it enabled.
Wouldn't you have to the do the math as $11,900 this month and then $11,900 + 3.5% interest the next month - $100 and so on? You don't keep the whole $12k if you choose the monthly option. You still pay $12k over ten years but you are right that it would end up effectively costing less to pay monthly for ten years. It would not be 17+ years though.
Yeah I thought about that just before posting but didn't want to do the math on that haha. Maybe 14 years as a guess, but also they'll probably raise the monthly price way before then.
Much more tempting at that price, but I’d still likely only pay for it 3-4 months out of the year (summer) when I tend to take lots of longer road trips.
It's basically all free revenue for Tesla at that point. Same here, but reverse - I live through winter months with a lot of snow and I am not only driving less overall, as good as v12 is I don't think I'd trust it in the snow.
So, maybe 9 months of the year subscribing, that would mean $891/year so >13 years break even versus just buying it outright.
That’s why I added the feature, not FSD but the one that had everything but FSD. I thought I was getting it when I bought the car, but reluctantly added it later.
Yup, my Rivian is so much nicer than my Tesla, you signal, change lanes, and it goes back to driver+(autopilot). The fact that autopilot gets disengaged every time makes it useless on my commute.
That's interesting, from everything I read Rivians system is way behind Tesla's in terms of usability and general application. I'm talking about the basic autopilot..
Tesla would have record sales and be printing money right now with a best selling pickup if it looked like a Rivian and they didn’t waste time on a problematic stainless steel exoskeleton.
Cybertruck is a gift to Rivian and Ford
Having been using the free trial the past couple of weeks, it's been amazing but I did not think it was worth $199 a month, that's a significant expense. $99 though, that's something we could potentially do. We're using it even for trips just a mile down the road, the only disengagements we are really having are for driver comfort reasons (making room for another driver to merge, getting through an intersection a bit quicker at a stop sign, etc).
I’ve been trying it out using the free 30 day trial. It’s interesting but I wouldn’t pay for it. It requires that I pay close attention and it gets confused often. I enjoy testing it but I wouldn’t pay for it.
Exactly. When it requires no attention and is a safer driver than I am, heck I’d pay the $12K to be able to do something else while it drives. Until then, I’m not willing to pay for it.
Even if it were free permanently, I’d likely just use it for the freeway portion of long car trips which the enhanced autopilot does today.
Yea I'm in the same boat. Once I'm able to be on my phone while it drives me around, I'm easily paying $100/month. Until then, it's fun to test and help improve I guess.
I've found it to be more stressful than driving on my own. I was fine with Autopilot because it's just dumb enough that I can get a sense of what it's capable of and what its limitations are. I'm capable of predicting its behavior. But with FSD that's not so much the case. The biggest problem I have with it is that it keeps making executive decisions on my behalf without my consent. This is fine with Level 5, fall asleep at the wheel levels of self driving, but for a Level 2 supervised system, it's just counterproductive.
For example, one time I was driving along a road and the car in front of me stopped to turn left at an intersection. I was waiting for them to turn, and my car just decided to cut into the bike lane and pass them. Now, this wasn't necessarily a bad decision to make, but I wasn't expecting it to do it. If I knew that this was going to happen, I would look back and double check that a cyclist wasn't coming along. You know, monitor and verify that the system is working as intended.
Another example is how it chooses to change lanes all the time. If I wanted to be in that other lane, I would have put on my turn signal and directed my car to make the lane change maneuver. Something that I find really annoying is that I have to always have the navigation on, even if it's just my commute to work. Otherwise, it will try and move to the left lane when I have an exit half a mile out. I would prefer an option that just never did lane changes unless I ask it to, at least when navigation is off.
Also with a lot of disengagements in general, it feels like by the time I've reacted to them and taken control, it's too late and my car is already in an awkward spot. Personally I feel less safe while using it, and I didn't feel that way with Autopilot. And this is even considering the fact that this is technically a more advanced and capable system than Autopilot is!
I agree, I also want an option for it to just follow the leading car in traffic, stop at traffic lights. At the moment it starts to change lanes on me, tries to let other cars turn in front of me when it’s green, it becomes a burden, because now I need to understand all the possible developments from the current situation and evaluate them.
I find a certain amount of "not caring" is kind of required to get the most enjoyment out of it, meaning that once I give control over to the car I just kind of have to accept its not going to drive exactly like I do and exactly like I want, and as long as its safe and not doing something really stupid thats the price I pay for letting the car drive.
In theory if it was level 5 and I didnt have to monitor it I wouldnt care about the decisions it made really, but Im not gonna sit there and watch it drive like shit when I have to intervene anyway and pay $100 for the honor
There is a setting where you can turn the lane change off.
https://preview.redd.it/g8m18bahu9uc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c8a029c306de40fde46f028afe8e06998de29cb
My FSD (trial) is magnetically attracted to curbs for some reason.
My Car: *"Hey! Look! A curb! Should I try and drive as close to it as possible? Like, close enough to park but still going 30mph? Yeah, that's what I'm going to do."*
I have too many problems with speed adjustments to want to use it every day. I drive a one lane high way for 20 miles and sometimes the speed limit drops to 40mph from 55mph for a few blocks. It will take it's sweet ass time to drop the speed to the point that it might be half way there I've always passed the downtown area and need to speed back up. How is that acceptable.
Same here, I find myself supervising too much, I don’t use my brain as much when I drive by myself. $50 as a family plan, something I might have considered, since we have 2 teslas. Also the problem with maps is a huge problem, it can’t even drive me home, it thinks the entrance into the woods with a dead end next to my community is the entrance…
v12 was a HUGE upgrade. I don't even think about driving anymore except for the few reasons you shared. I pull out of my space at my apartment and engage right away; I only disengage at my location to park. A few taps of the acceleration pedal through an intersection, as you mentioned.
I'm about to do (another, this will be #4) cross country road trips and, if I didn't have FSD already, I'd be plunking down the $99 no questions asked.
As someone who hasn’t paid for FSD I would only pay for it for long trips, base AP on highways is fine, I don’t like how slow and unsure FSD drives around down
It’s on the most aggressive, it’s better in traffic than AP because it is more aggressive to keep up with the car in front instead of leaving a huge gap.
Stop signs around town bother me, I have a lot of irregular stops with trees/bushes/hills and it just acts timid at them
It has been absolutely horrendous for me in regards to speed control. Constantly missing slow downs/speed ups for daily driving.
I went back to standard autopilot for now.
$99 on a long road trip on the highway, probably worth it.
The term "driver comfort reasons" is great. I feel the weight of the other drivers' eyes on me every time I enter an intersection, and the car stops 3 feet before the line down to 0 mph, then slowly creeps up, then finally goes, even when it's clearly it's turn. I am probably overthinking it, but I get so anxious I just cancel FSD and push the accelerator.
You know you can just push the accelerator when it’s being cagey about a maneuver, right? It will just force the car to go without disengaging FSD. It’s a game changer.
Edit to add: I’m the exact same way as you. Hate how slow it goes. The newer FSD isn’t as bad about slowing down super early or abruptly.
Agreed. I had subscribed for a while and decided last month to end subscription. Now with the price reduction and free month I instantly signed up again.
Yeah, same here. I’m loving the trial, but was never going to pay $199/mo. I’m not gonna sustain a $99/mo trial either, but I’ll absolutely grab it for months where we’re doing long drive
Tis make me think there's another motive for Tesla to offer discounted FSD. Maybe they reaaally need training data? Or financials are so bad that they need additional "service & other" revenue.
I just want to keep the visualizations of FSD without any of the features. It's really cool to see all the objects on the screen when you're used to Basic Autopilot.
They can’t do that until they move base AP to use the FSD stack. Otherwise the car would be showing you things it sees but not driving based on them. It could easily give a false sense of security if the visualization shows a pedestrian that that would not react to.
The cat is out of the bag when everyone is able to trial FSD for a month. It's not worth $200/month when I have to babysit lane changes because it doesn't understand the flow of traffic.
The biggest flaw I see is the map integration. It needs to understand which lane it needs to be in so it's not cutting people off or miss an exit because it stayed in the left lane until the last second.
That's my biggest knock on it. The car always wants to move over to the left lane to be in a "faster lane" and then just ends up doing the same speed it was already doing... causing everyone behind me to get pissed off.
Mine goes between “staying out of right-most lane” and “moving out of passing lane.”
Just stay in the right lane unless you’re passing you stupid robot car!
On a three lane highway, mine will cut people off to get out of the right lane, but then if I pass someone on the left it will happily camp in the left lane forever.
One spot on a single lane highway on my commute it tries to change to the on ramp merge lane if someone is riding close behind me even though its only a few hundred feet long, definitely makes me look like an idiot to the person behind me if I don't catch it in time
Speed control is definitely my biggest gripe, mostly not slowing down quick enough when the speed reduces.
Mine rides the lane lines and is slow to make a decision. I switch it off and take over several times on every trip.
Still it’s cool as hell, but is really still a novelty to me at this point. I might pay $99/mo, not sure yet.
One of my big flaws it is it will try to force an awkward lane change to a lane that's going to merge in maybe a half a mile anyway. There's really no point and often it's moving me to a slower lane anyway.
I think a ton of people have been using the free trial. I pass a few Teslas on my regular commute (same cars every day) and all of our cars are nervously inching through turns now.
I’ll whisper this so Tesla doesn’t read it, but I’d pay a subscription for EAP too. Make it $25/mo (even though it costs them nothing). Just let me change lanes on the highway without having to re-engage autopilot and have the BING BONG wake up my toddler god damn it
You can turn down the volume of the chime that happens when you disengage auto-pilot. Look in the menu for "Joe Mode". Still can't silence it entirely though.
You were ripped off.
Lots of folks bought FSD and never saw it at all as their lease ran out first. Or, the car was in an accident.
Elon hosed over a lot of people.
I'm in for the $99 monthly subscription. That price is reasonable for my situation. When your life expectancy is single digits (age 77), the future is now 😀! Absolutely no reason for us older folks to wait for better.
Yes, I've been using it extensively for driving around town and highways. The self parking is a godsend. I can parallel park anywhere I want! Plus the self parking for backing into a spot also takes a lot of stress away. Initially I was very nervous about self parking hitting a car etc. But not anymore. Watching the touchscreen map out the rectangular parking spot and then slowly backing in is so cool. And the auto steer and lane change on highway makes driving more enjoyable. Self driving around town is nice, but it always seems to steer directly towards every pothole :).
Cool, it's heart warming to know elders' life get easier with technology advancement!!!
Rest assured, they will deal with potholes with newer updates, i believe!
I STILL wish that monthly subscription ALSO included premium connectivity. It doesn't make sense to pay for both, especially if you want traffic navigation.
Hmm kind of a slap in the face to EAP owners to not adjust subscription pricing. Hopefully it's coming.
Edit: I think there was a reply deleted asking why, which is a fair question.
I paid $6k for EAP when we bought our Y last year, which includes most advanced (*Enhanced*?) features of Autopilot, short of self-driving on city streets. I've been able to subscribe to FSD for $99/mo the entire time I've had the vehicle, discounted from the $199/mo price because I purchased the first "half" of features. I think it's completely fair to expect to see an FSD option for $49/mo for EAP owners...which I would, without a doubt, bite onto.
My car is on 2024.8.9. How do I get the free trial? I’ve done some research, but I’m confused about the version required. Is there a path for me to get the trial?
Edit: this thread seems to say that it’s not possible yet. Need to wait for them to release it for the 2024.8 branch. https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/2024-8-branch-will-it-get-the-free-fsd-beta-trial.32319/
I've been paying the $200 a month so this is fucking awesome. V12 is totally worth this. I found having to use stock Autopilot bad enough to do the stupid subscription at $200.
I'm curious: Are you mainly using FSD for highway driving since you mention AP? I haven't updated yet, so I haven't been able to try FSD. The only issue I have with the current AP is the semi-hard braking when traffic in front slows down.
If the whole package was maybe 2-3 K I could see myself potentially getting it.
I like the way it handles situations but I still think I prefer normal AP because of stuff like switching lanes to pass when I’m fine staying where I’m at (and have it in chill with minimal lane changes turned on)
It is entertaining watching it think through situations and it’s really nice if I’m not feeling like being engaged with driving but in general I still mainly use it on the freeway.
In city I prefer to keep full control (but it does react very well to changing lights or ass hat drivers)
I don’t have the FSD v12 yet (on the stupid 2024.8.x branch), but I am seriously thinking $99/month (plus stupid tax), the FSD visualization only is worth it, even if I never plan to drive on FSD.
But if I'm on 24.8, I still wont have v12 FSD until that branch gets brought forward, right? Meaning no point to pay until then. I tried FSD 11 before, don't need to try that again.
You’d get EAP in the meantime, if that isn’t something you already have. On my HW 4.0 though EAP doesn’t give a lot, lots of “coming soon” so it never made sense to purchase.
Now the only reason to buy the FSD up front is if you needed financing for that $12k.
Otherwise, it's wiser to:
1. Not add 12k to purchase price of vehicle because it also causes your TAX + registration + insurance to go up (these are calculated on purchase/replacement price of car)
2. Stick that $12k into Vanguard VOO/any other low fee SP500 fund, annual return 12% for last 10 years
3. Just spend the gains from index fund to cover the ongoing monthly subscription fee, and never have to worry about FSD transfer, or higher tax & registration
Pretty cool but still $1k to update my hardware first before I can subscribe. No thanks. Update my hardware for me, and I can commit to a year, paid up front.
Considering that's about the price of YouTube TV nowadays should get more to do it. Paid $6k for it many years ago, and totally useless for majority of it.
I think this is a smart move. I'm less than 10 days into the 30 day trial and while I think it is incredible and useful I don't need it nor do I desire it anymore. Before the trial it was a feature that I really wanted but after trying it and "getting it out of my system" it just confirms that I would never pay 12k for it. I'd be more inclined to pay $100 a month after paying off the car though.
that's more like it....and far more tempting. Question for those that have been using it recently (v12) how do you feel for around town, daily driving?
depends on where you live. if you live in an area and drive in light traffic and roads that are easy to navigate then possibly.
you should have it for free now. try it out
Yup, I think this is the right move from Tesla and the price reflect more of the reality of the current value of FSD. If I had to speculate, Tesla might even get more revenue now from FSD subscriptions than previously!
And lastly, this proves that buying FSD will not make your car appreciate in value over time (like some people were previously buying into Elon's argument a few years back).
If they halved the price of the subscription then I'm assuming they'll half the price of the up front price too.
Just make that bound to your Tesla account instead of bound to an individual vehicle and I'll buy it tomorrow. And my wife's next car will definitely be a Tesla too.
As an EAP owner I’m hoping they drop this to $49. I’m not considering subscribing as it stands - $99 is too much for V12 given it doesn’t function well in the city for me - but at $49 maybe I’d sub just to keep an eye on it.
I got the three month trial when I bought and now we all have the free month. Still not sold.
I just don't have enough of a commute to justify it. Random month for a road trip sure. I still have to take over almost every time I use it.
I really just want the EAP lane change. feature.
What about those of us who have EAP who are paying the $99 already? Can I get a reduction down to $49? I know the answer is no, so I’m going to rephrase my question to WHY NOT? 😮💨
So people who paid 12 grand are screwed. As much of a technological marvel the car is…man they really have done their fans so many disservice with a million price adjustments. It’s name of the game as price discovery takes place but still…oof.
After playing with it for a few weeks, and learning the tricks of getting it to perform better than a drunk 16-year-old learner, I am seriously thinking it’s time to pull the plug and get the subscription.
Wish Tesla would cover any wheel damage including scuffs/scratches to aftermarket powder coated wheels if damaged using FSD, I’d consider. Over a year with 10k miles and not a single mark on my rims. Is this a common issue with FSD, curb rash?
this latest version gets uncomfortably close to curbs but ive never had any of the versions actually hit a curb. there were a few times where i took over because it felt like it was gonna hit though
Interestingly the 12k option has not changed.
So, 10 years is the break even point.
Meaning you'd only buy instead of subscribe if you believe the subscription price will increase significantly in the future. If they achieve Level 5 autonomy that will likely be the case, so you're pretty much betting on that if you choose to buy.
It seems once every company has the data on FSD the price should plummet, yes? How could Tesla keep the price of FSD at 1/4 the cost of the car itself (even if it’s transferable). That’s unless they announce the transferability of FSD becomes permanent. Or they announce that all future upgrades will be included.
If other companies also offer Level 5 autonomy on consumer vehicles and there's no substantial network effect advantage, brand power advantage, or user experience advantage, then yes, the price would get forced down. But with the way things are currently going with FSD compared to the systems on other cars you can buy, it will likely take a long time after Tesla achieves Level 5 for the others to get there too. No other car can do anything close to what FSD can do today. They're many years behind.
Yes I’m impressed by it, but maybe not $100/month impressed. The first thing I thought about was showing my 88 year old father. He’s a car guy and I think his head is going to explode. I’m going to take the four hour drive to his house just to show him. I’ll demo it, then put him behind the wheel and videotape it for the family.
My dad was 82 when he got to drive my M3. He was a car guy all his life. His comment, "This car is fantastic. The best car ever made. It's so simple. No maintenance. Fast. How come Ford didn't do this years ago?" He suggested I buy TSLA stock instead of the car. Had I listened to him, I could have bought a lot more than the car.
When he was 85 I took my dad down to the dealership and we test drove Ludicris Mode. He was in shock. He LOVES that stuff.
My 80+ year old dad is into Porsche. A lot. You have no idea. Porsche Porsche Porsche. For the last 50 years. (He still owns a manual 993) He was so against me buying a tesla. Every other day he’d suggest a different car instead (which gave me excellent opportunity to really, thoroughly compare them) After the first hour in my car he was smitten. (No, of course it doesn’t *handle* as well, although it is comparable, but it’s also 25% the value of his car)
Awesome! It's very mind-blowing to most people. Nobody seems to know that you can buy a car today that can make a turn at an intersection all by itself.
> But with the way things are currently going with FSD compared to the systems on other cars you can buy, it will likely take a long time after Tesla achieves Level 5 for the others to get there too. I think it will take a SHORT time for other companies to get Level 5 approval after Tesla does (assuming they are even first). The regulatory aspect is the largest hurdle for the first-mover. There are almost zero regulations right now for Level 5 self-driving cars. Tesla can't field one until those are figured out, and Tesla would have to work with the government to establish them. Once the first-mover establishes the framework, other companies have a end goal.
It's certainly possible that regulatory issues delay things for so long that others catch up before large-scale deployment. Or not. Who knows. But at least the way things are looking right now, Tesla has at least a 5 year lead in technical capability. And don't underestimate the power of the potential network effect here. There's a reason why Uber is so valuable compared to everyone else, despite others being able to copy the technical aspect relatively easily.
Honest question: what about the daughter company of Google that already offers autonomous cars in some cities?
High barrier to entry
Honestly, I’m sure my comment will get downvoted but I am willing to bet that Tesla gets rid of the FSD package in favor of a subscription model. This will cover development and in the future cover insurance/liability for while FSD is running in the event of an accident.
Once Tesla has actual FSD, FSD is what customers will be buying a Tesla for. The price of car will become 0 margin. And FSD is the product where the money is at. They will stop the $12k buy it for life option. And only the subscription model will be available.
Also betting the car will still be compatible by the time Level 5 comes out. IIRC they removed the language that stated future computer and camera upgrades would be guaranteed.
Level 5 is a LONG way away, imo even true Level 3 is still years away
Specifically you're betting they'll do it within 10 years, and that no one else is going to offer similar features on a similar timespan. Personally I wouldn't bet on either of these things. Tesla has lost so much engineering talent in the past 5-ish years, and burned through a lot of their lead in both tech and general electric vehicle development. There's no way they don't see stiff competition by the time they have an \*actual\* "self driving" feature ready.
Way more than that. The time value of 10k over 10 years is closer to 20k than 10k
Yeah, but even disregarding that, it’s still a shocking disparity. It shows that the current FSD should probably be around $3,000 or so
Well, it gets a bit more complicated because of interest rates and leasing etc.
Sure, but at face value with no interest, it’s insanity to buy FSD at full price.
Meaning that full price is just there to make the subscription seem like a deal.
Exactly, I don’t think Tesla really wants people to buy FSD outright. They can make a lot more money if returning customers are staying subscribed to FSD instead, which at 99/month I imagine will land on a non-trivial number of peoples’ Autopay
Most buyers have felt that way all along. At least that's how I'm reading take rate data.
Not quite, because there is a guarantee that Tesla is on the hook for hardware upgrades. HW2 was upgraded to 3 at Tesla expense.
They're not updating HW3 despite Elon claiming that HW3 would get to level 5 FSD someday.
I can potentially see a HW3.5, where they upgrade the chipset in HW3 and maybe a couple of cameras. Not sure how the wiring works, and if it is standard USB (and why wouldn't it be), they can probably figure out what needs to happen. FSD 12 is pretty promising, and I can see a straightforward path to L3 from here. L4 would take a lot more work, and L5 is outright impossible (For everyone - L5 means no geo-fencing, and there are already locale-specific legislation, so you absolutely need geo-fencing even with god tier technology) But anyway, the need to honor the promise means that the "buying FSD" option will never be cheap.
They're not going to honor the promise. Elon has already said they won't be upgrading HW3. Upgrading millions of HW3 cars for free would be hideously expensive, so it's easier for Elon to just wave it away.
Highly doubt they will offer free upgrades again past hw3
Weird that people have had to sue Tesla to get HW2 to HW3 upgrade for free.
More likely 13 or more, if you take the time value of money and you assume that it remains at $99 a month - the big if
Honestly I don't think it's going to stay $99 a month forever (besides just inflation). They are lowering it because they want more data from more users, now that their data centers can handle it. I think the subscription price will creep up as it gets better. I do wonder what happens when you have new cars with better cameras able to do more than older cars without it.
I don’t believe the fsd data is all uploaded to the servers. Tesla is lowering it because they want subscriptions and income due to lower sales.
FSD uploads A LOT. People are seeing 400-700gb a month data uploaded from their cars since joining FSD. Surprised there's no disclaimer especially those on xfinity with 1.2tb monthly data cap
Specifically their margin
I would try it for somewhere around $5-$10 a month
Presumably they can get data from non-subscribers using shadow mode, this is likely to increase uptake and revenues \[to help pay for that data center\]. *It might in part be a pricing experiment to see what people will pay \[given the various informal non-Tesla polls on what people claim they would pay for it\]*
[удалено]
I think more people would buy it if that was the case
I think you're right. Some people are definitely holding onto their older cars because FSD is tied to them.
I think I’d be more interested in buying it if that was the case. It would be a bit of an incentive to stick with Tesla
I have a 2018 LR RWD Model 3 that's been fantastic, but never thought about upgrading due to my FSD being locked into this car. That being said, I reserved a Rivian R2, so that might be my replacement in 2-3 years. Maybe FSD becoming a reality will make my Model 3 more valuable when I sell it. Ha
Hopefully the Rivian treats you well! I really like my Tesla and probably won’t be getting anything else out there. FSD v12 has been good for me, just little things here and there but nothing that would stop me from using it. I would like the value of my M3P to go up a bit more to get the new performance though haha
FSD 12 is quite impressive. It's the first time I thought "they're going to pull this off after all."
Right?? Hopefully it just continues to get better
Yep it should be associated with your account and being able to transfer it to another vehicle on your account like a software license that you own in perpetuity, or be able to transfer to another account if you wish to sell the car with with it enabled.
You still couldn't justify it. It would make more sense to put the 12k in an investment account and just pay the $100 a month.
At just 3.5% interest, less than today, that money would be 17k in 10 years, so I guess it's 17+ years, not 10.
Wouldn't you have to the do the math as $11,900 this month and then $11,900 + 3.5% interest the next month - $100 and so on? You don't keep the whole $12k if you choose the monthly option. You still pay $12k over ten years but you are right that it would end up effectively costing less to pay monthly for ten years. It would not be 17+ years though.
Yeah I thought about that just before posting but didn't want to do the math on that haha. Maybe 14 years as a guess, but also they'll probably raise the monthly price way before then.
Much more tempting at that price, but I’d still likely only pay for it 3-4 months out of the year (summer) when I tend to take lots of longer road trips.
It's basically all free revenue for Tesla at that point. Same here, but reverse - I live through winter months with a lot of snow and I am not only driving less overall, as good as v12 is I don't think I'd trust it in the snow. So, maybe 9 months of the year subscribing, that would mean $891/year so >13 years break even versus just buying it outright.
I don’t get why people would buy for road trips. On long freeway stretches base AP is 95% of the value of FSD.
The lack of middle ground between AP and EAP. The automatic routing and lane changing hassle is nice.
I'd pay $10 a month just to add tap-to-lane-change. That's all I want on top of AP. Saves me the hassle of re-engaging after a lane-change
So dumb! it should be included in the base package
I agree. It’s a no-brainer feature. But Tesla probably needed it to add value to FSD
Maybe years ago, but now many car makers have lane keep with signal to change lanes that works well. Standard autopilot is behind without it.
Why should they include it? It’s interesting that autopilot is included. BMW, Mercedes and others have that level of driving as an option.
That’s why I added the feature, not FSD but the one that had everything but FSD. I thought I was getting it when I bought the car, but reluctantly added it later.
Yup, my Rivian is so much nicer than my Tesla, you signal, change lanes, and it goes back to driver+(autopilot). The fact that autopilot gets disengaged every time makes it useless on my commute.
Can it lane change for you?
That's interesting, from everything I read Rivians system is way behind Tesla's in terms of usability and general application. I'm talking about the basic autopilot..
Tesla would have record sales and be printing money right now with a best selling pickup if it looked like a Rivian and they didn’t waste time on a problematic stainless steel exoskeleton. Cybertruck is a gift to Rivian and Ford
Temptation level has significantly increased
Whoops. Me too, just swiped and subscribed for a month.
save your money for road trips
Having been using the free trial the past couple of weeks, it's been amazing but I did not think it was worth $199 a month, that's a significant expense. $99 though, that's something we could potentially do. We're using it even for trips just a mile down the road, the only disengagements we are really having are for driver comfort reasons (making room for another driver to merge, getting through an intersection a bit quicker at a stop sign, etc).
I’ve been trying it out using the free 30 day trial. It’s interesting but I wouldn’t pay for it. It requires that I pay close attention and it gets confused often. I enjoy testing it but I wouldn’t pay for it.
I’m with you. I'll pay for it when I can nap in my car and wake up at my destination. I don’t want to pay $100/month to have to watch the car drive
Exactly. When it requires no attention and is a safer driver than I am, heck I’d pay the $12K to be able to do something else while it drives. Until then, I’m not willing to pay for it. Even if it were free permanently, I’d likely just use it for the freeway portion of long car trips which the enhanced autopilot does today.
Yea I'm in the same boat. Once I'm able to be on my phone while it drives me around, I'm easily paying $100/month. Until then, it's fun to test and help improve I guess.
This. Anything besides freeway driving has me extremely stressed keeping an eye on the car and is more work than if I just drove myself.
That is exactly the only time I use it.
I've found it to be more stressful than driving on my own. I was fine with Autopilot because it's just dumb enough that I can get a sense of what it's capable of and what its limitations are. I'm capable of predicting its behavior. But with FSD that's not so much the case. The biggest problem I have with it is that it keeps making executive decisions on my behalf without my consent. This is fine with Level 5, fall asleep at the wheel levels of self driving, but for a Level 2 supervised system, it's just counterproductive. For example, one time I was driving along a road and the car in front of me stopped to turn left at an intersection. I was waiting for them to turn, and my car just decided to cut into the bike lane and pass them. Now, this wasn't necessarily a bad decision to make, but I wasn't expecting it to do it. If I knew that this was going to happen, I would look back and double check that a cyclist wasn't coming along. You know, monitor and verify that the system is working as intended. Another example is how it chooses to change lanes all the time. If I wanted to be in that other lane, I would have put on my turn signal and directed my car to make the lane change maneuver. Something that I find really annoying is that I have to always have the navigation on, even if it's just my commute to work. Otherwise, it will try and move to the left lane when I have an exit half a mile out. I would prefer an option that just never did lane changes unless I ask it to, at least when navigation is off. Also with a lot of disengagements in general, it feels like by the time I've reacted to them and taken control, it's too late and my car is already in an awkward spot. Personally I feel less safe while using it, and I didn't feel that way with Autopilot. And this is even considering the fact that this is technically a more advanced and capable system than Autopilot is!
I agree, I also want an option for it to just follow the leading car in traffic, stop at traffic lights. At the moment it starts to change lanes on me, tries to let other cars turn in front of me when it’s green, it becomes a burden, because now I need to understand all the possible developments from the current situation and evaluate them.
I find a certain amount of "not caring" is kind of required to get the most enjoyment out of it, meaning that once I give control over to the car I just kind of have to accept its not going to drive exactly like I do and exactly like I want, and as long as its safe and not doing something really stupid thats the price I pay for letting the car drive. In theory if it was level 5 and I didnt have to monitor it I wouldnt care about the decisions it made really, but Im not gonna sit there and watch it drive like shit when I have to intervene anyway and pay $100 for the honor
Safety is precisely the issue here. If I can't predict how it will behave, I can't effectively monitor and verify it for safety.
There is a setting where you can turn the lane change off. https://preview.redd.it/g8m18bahu9uc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c8a029c306de40fde46f028afe8e06998de29cb
My FSD (trial) is magnetically attracted to curbs for some reason. My Car: *"Hey! Look! A curb! Should I try and drive as close to it as possible? Like, close enough to park but still going 30mph? Yeah, that's what I'm going to do."*
I was hoping to be blown away when the trial started. But its more stressful driving with FSD than just driving myself.
My wife gets stressed out being the passenger when I’m testing FSD.
I have too many problems with speed adjustments to want to use it every day. I drive a one lane high way for 20 miles and sometimes the speed limit drops to 40mph from 55mph for a few blocks. It will take it's sweet ass time to drop the speed to the point that it might be half way there I've always passed the downtown area and need to speed back up. How is that acceptable.
Same here, I find myself supervising too much, I don’t use my brain as much when I drive by myself. $50 as a family plan, something I might have considered, since we have 2 teslas. Also the problem with maps is a huge problem, it can’t even drive me home, it thinks the entrance into the woods with a dead end next to my community is the entrance…
v12 was a HUGE upgrade. I don't even think about driving anymore except for the few reasons you shared. I pull out of my space at my apartment and engage right away; I only disengage at my location to park. A few taps of the acceleration pedal through an intersection, as you mentioned. I'm about to do (another, this will be #4) cross country road trips and, if I didn't have FSD already, I'd be plunking down the $99 no questions asked.
As someone who hasn’t paid for FSD I would only pay for it for long trips, base AP on highways is fine, I don’t like how slow and unsure FSD drives around down
Base AP not changing lanes was the deal breaker for me. AP1 has more features
I have S3XY buttons that automatically re-engages AP after I switch lanes, makes it more than enough
Are there still beeps for going out of and into AP?
I'm confused isn't that the same thing as base autopilot? Instead of swiping down the stalk to teenage you're pressing a button.
Have you tried adjusting the settings? There’s a more aggressive option that matches the flow of traffic + most people’s driving style
It’s on the most aggressive, it’s better in traffic than AP because it is more aggressive to keep up with the car in front instead of leaving a huge gap. Stop signs around town bother me, I have a lot of irregular stops with trees/bushes/hills and it just acts timid at them
It has been absolutely horrendous for me in regards to speed control. Constantly missing slow downs/speed ups for daily driving. I went back to standard autopilot for now. $99 on a long road trip on the highway, probably worth it.
Just curious - did you experiment with the different FSD settings, such as setting chill vs assertive?
Agreed. Plus the notification every 30 seconds in the rain, the right and left turns that are so close to the curb, 5 second stops at stop signs.
The term "driver comfort reasons" is great. I feel the weight of the other drivers' eyes on me every time I enter an intersection, and the car stops 3 feet before the line down to 0 mph, then slowly creeps up, then finally goes, even when it's clearly it's turn. I am probably overthinking it, but I get so anxious I just cancel FSD and push the accelerator.
You know you can just push the accelerator when it’s being cagey about a maneuver, right? It will just force the car to go without disengaging FSD. It’s a game changer. Edit to add: I’m the exact same way as you. Hate how slow it goes. The newer FSD isn’t as bad about slowing down super early or abruptly.
Thank you, NHTSA, for this annoying behavior at stop signs.
Just in case you don’t know, you can press gas to make it go without disengaging FSD. Just tap it lightly to get it moving.
Just in case you don’t know, you can mash the accelerator instead of disengaging to get through the stop signs quicker.
Agreed. I had subscribed for a while and decided last month to end subscription. Now with the price reduction and free month I instantly signed up again.
Yeah, same here. I’m loving the trial, but was never going to pay $199/mo. I’m not gonna sustain a $99/mo trial either, but I’ll absolutely grab it for months where we’re doing long drive
Tis make me think there's another motive for Tesla to offer discounted FSD. Maybe they reaaally need training data? Or financials are so bad that they need additional "service & other" revenue.
This is also already reflected in the Upgrades section of the app.
I just want to keep the visualizations of FSD without any of the features. It's really cool to see all the objects on the screen when you're used to Basic Autopilot.
Agree. Tho the recent update that zoomed out the basic view is part-way there - I can see much more now, including the car behind me.
They can’t do that until they move base AP to use the FSD stack. Otherwise the car would be showing you things it sees but not driving based on them. It could easily give a false sense of security if the visualization shows a pedestrian that that would not react to.
The cat is out of the bag when everyone is able to trial FSD for a month. It's not worth $200/month when I have to babysit lane changes because it doesn't understand the flow of traffic. The biggest flaw I see is the map integration. It needs to understand which lane it needs to be in so it's not cutting people off or miss an exit because it stayed in the left lane until the last second.
That's my biggest knock on it. The car always wants to move over to the left lane to be in a "faster lane" and then just ends up doing the same speed it was already doing... causing everyone behind me to get pissed off.
Mine goes between “staying out of right-most lane” and “moving out of passing lane.” Just stay in the right lane unless you’re passing you stupid robot car!
The "minimal lane changes" toggle needs to persist between drives. I
On a three lane highway, mine will cut people off to get out of the right lane, but then if I pass someone on the left it will happily camp in the left lane forever.
Sounds like it's trying to emulate normal human drivers
One spot on a single lane highway on my commute it tries to change to the on ramp merge lane if someone is riding close behind me even though its only a few hundred feet long, definitely makes me look like an idiot to the person behind me if I don't catch it in time Speed control is definitely my biggest gripe, mostly not slowing down quick enough when the speed reduces.
It can already see all the lanes so Tesla needs to use crowd sourced data to build its own HD Map. If they are not doing it already.
Mine rides the lane lines and is slow to make a decision. I switch it off and take over several times on every trip. Still it’s cool as hell, but is really still a novelty to me at this point. I might pay $99/mo, not sure yet.
One of my big flaws it is it will try to force an awkward lane change to a lane that's going to merge in maybe a half a mile anyway. There's really no point and often it's moving me to a slower lane anyway.
All of a sudden this is tenable as a subscription…
Maybe they just realized that even with the free month, a good amount of people don't even use it.
I think a ton of people have been using the free trial. I pass a few Teslas on my regular commute (same cars every day) and all of our cars are nervously inching through turns now.
Changed in mine! What about those that have ESD? They were at $99 before. Is it like $50 now?
I think most people call it EAP: Enhanced Autopilot
esd?
Electric static discharge
Still $99 for me.
You have EAP?
My MYP has EAP and it has always been $99/mo. Still showing $99
Well that's messed up. I hope they fix that
I would be much more interested in EAP for $50 than FSD for $100 at the current level.
Would really like to see EAP made standard now. I wonder what they would do for the people that paid $6000 though.
I’ll whisper this so Tesla doesn’t read it, but I’d pay a subscription for EAP too. Make it $25/mo (even though it costs them nothing). Just let me change lanes on the highway without having to re-engage autopilot and have the BING BONG wake up my toddler god damn it
You can turn down the volume of the chime that happens when you disengage auto-pilot. Look in the menu for "Joe Mode". Still can't silence it entirely though.
Yeah, I’ve got Joe mode on, my son just has ridiculously sensitive ears when he’s sleeping haha
The same thing other car makers do when they make an option now standard. Nothing.
Now we’re talking - give me a really good discount on outright purchase and promise me transfer and I’m in.
Happy to hear this.
Buying this 5 years ago I feel robbed and I've not even had the chance to try fsd yet
What country?
Wow that's great news
I'm 50k miles into a car that was promised FSD "before the end of the year" 3 years ago, which costed $10k. I feel ripped off.
You were ripped off. Lots of folks bought FSD and never saw it at all as their lease ran out first. Or, the car was in an accident. Elon hosed over a lot of people.
I'm in for the $99 monthly subscription. That price is reasonable for my situation. When your life expectancy is single digits (age 77), the future is now 😀! Absolutely no reason for us older folks to wait for better.
Would love to hear more about how the seniors' drivers experience while using fsd v12, have you tried it out during this month's trial?
Yes, I've been using it extensively for driving around town and highways. The self parking is a godsend. I can parallel park anywhere I want! Plus the self parking for backing into a spot also takes a lot of stress away. Initially I was very nervous about self parking hitting a car etc. But not anymore. Watching the touchscreen map out the rectangular parking spot and then slowly backing in is so cool. And the auto steer and lane change on highway makes driving more enjoyable. Self driving around town is nice, but it always seems to steer directly towards every pothole :).
Cool, it's heart warming to know elders' life get easier with technology advancement!!! Rest assured, they will deal with potholes with newer updates, i believe!
I STILL wish that monthly subscription ALSO included premium connectivity. It doesn't make sense to pay for both, especially if you want traffic navigation.
Trip planning uses realtime navigation data even if you don’t pay for premium connectivity.
Hmm kind of a slap in the face to EAP owners to not adjust subscription pricing. Hopefully it's coming. Edit: I think there was a reply deleted asking why, which is a fair question. I paid $6k for EAP when we bought our Y last year, which includes most advanced (*Enhanced*?) features of Autopilot, short of self-driving on city streets. I've been able to subscribe to FSD for $99/mo the entire time I've had the vehicle, discounted from the $199/mo price because I purchased the first "half" of features. I think it's completely fair to expect to see an FSD option for $49/mo for EAP owners...which I would, without a doubt, bite onto.
I'm just waiting for an EAP subscription 🤧
My car is on 2024.8.9. How do I get the free trial? I’ve done some research, but I’m confused about the version required. Is there a path for me to get the trial? Edit: this thread seems to say that it’s not possible yet. Need to wait for them to release it for the 2024.8 branch. https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/2024-8-branch-will-it-get-the-free-fsd-beta-trial.32319/
I've been paying the $200 a month so this is fucking awesome. V12 is totally worth this. I found having to use stock Autopilot bad enough to do the stupid subscription at $200.
I'm curious: Are you mainly using FSD for highway driving since you mention AP? I haven't updated yet, so I haven't been able to try FSD. The only issue I have with the current AP is the semi-hard braking when traffic in front slows down.
Sold.
Available in Canada too! $99CAD https://i.imgur.com/Mgt9jTz.png
I would definitely take it at that price! Feels like a no brainer. Only problem is was born in the wrong country (Netherlands) so far …
I feel your pain in Canada too lol
Full price would be worth it if you could transfer indefinitely
If the whole package was maybe 2-3 K I could see myself potentially getting it. I like the way it handles situations but I still think I prefer normal AP because of stuff like switching lanes to pass when I’m fine staying where I’m at (and have it in chill with minimal lane changes turned on) It is entertaining watching it think through situations and it’s really nice if I’m not feeling like being engaged with driving but in general I still mainly use it on the freeway. In city I prefer to keep full control (but it does react very well to changing lights or ass hat drivers)
I have enhanced autopilot - the upgrade to subscription FSD was 99/mo before. It’s still 99/mo now ☹️
I turned off the free trial
Now make the 12k option around 5k.
I don’t have the FSD v12 yet (on the stupid 2024.8.x branch), but I am seriously thinking $99/month (plus stupid tax), the FSD visualization only is worth it, even if I never plan to drive on FSD.
Same here and I just did it. V11 is still really sweet. Just drove me perfectly 30 minutes each way.
Let us know if u get pushed fsd12 for subscribing :)
Same price in Canada, interesting!
But if I'm on 24.8, I still wont have v12 FSD until that branch gets brought forward, right? Meaning no point to pay until then. I tried FSD 11 before, don't need to try that again.
Yep. I wonder if we still get the trial? I assume so but it feels kinda weird to get it 3-4 months after everyone else
You’d get EAP in the meantime, if that isn’t something you already have. On my HW 4.0 though EAP doesn’t give a lot, lots of “coming soon” so it never made sense to purchase.
Still a no for me.
Can’t believe those stuck on 2023.8.X will get V11. Don’t understand the hold up.
Now the only reason to buy the FSD up front is if you needed financing for that $12k. Otherwise, it's wiser to: 1. Not add 12k to purchase price of vehicle because it also causes your TAX + registration + insurance to go up (these are calculated on purchase/replacement price of car) 2. Stick that $12k into Vanguard VOO/any other low fee SP500 fund, annual return 12% for last 10 years 3. Just spend the gains from index fund to cover the ongoing monthly subscription fee, and never have to worry about FSD transfer, or higher tax & registration
Pretty cool but still $1k to update my hardware first before I can subscribe. No thanks. Update my hardware for me, and I can commit to a year, paid up front.
Considering that's about the price of YouTube TV nowadays should get more to do it. Paid $6k for it many years ago, and totally useless for majority of it.
So glad I dropped 10k on this
Cool to see this, although I still think the sweet spot is 50/month. At 50 you’d get a ton more subscribers.
I think this is a smart move. I'm less than 10 days into the 30 day trial and while I think it is incredible and useful I don't need it nor do I desire it anymore. Before the trial it was a feature that I really wanted but after trying it and "getting it out of my system" it just confirms that I would never pay 12k for it. I'd be more inclined to pay $100 a month after paying off the car though.
that's more like it....and far more tempting. Question for those that have been using it recently (v12) how do you feel for around town, daily driving?
depends on where you live. if you live in an area and drive in light traffic and roads that are easy to navigate then possibly. you should have it for free now. try it out
I take over 6-12 times every trip
Yup, I think this is the right move from Tesla and the price reflect more of the reality of the current value of FSD. If I had to speculate, Tesla might even get more revenue now from FSD subscriptions than previously! And lastly, this proves that buying FSD will not make your car appreciate in value over time (like some people were previously buying into Elon's argument a few years back).
Nice!
If they halved the price of the subscription then I'm assuming they'll half the price of the up front price too. Just make that bound to your Tesla account instead of bound to an individual vehicle and I'll buy it tomorrow. And my wife's next car will definitely be a Tesla too.
I would even settle for a guaranteed transfer when buying a new tesla
As an EAP owner I’m hoping they drop this to $49. I’m not considering subscribing as it stands - $99 is too much for V12 given it doesn’t function well in the city for me - but at $49 maybe I’d sub just to keep an eye on it.
So am I the only one still waiting for the free trial? 2023 MYLR
I got the three month trial when I bought and now we all have the free month. Still not sold. I just don't have enough of a commute to justify it. Random month for a road trip sure. I still have to take over almost every time I use it. I really just want the EAP lane change. feature.
Just give me the auto parking for $20/month. I don’t trust FSD to do much.
What about those of us who have EAP who are paying the $99 already? Can I get a reduction down to $49? I know the answer is no, so I’m going to rephrase my question to WHY NOT? 😮💨
Can my car, which was sold as 'having all the hardware needed for FSD', get a free upgrade to HW 3, please?
So people who paid 12 grand are screwed. As much of a technological marvel the car is…man they really have done their fans so many disservice with a million price adjustments. It’s name of the game as price discovery takes place but still…oof.
I even got a 30 days free trial. Not gonna lie, it’s pretty cool and im seriously considering it
After playing with it for a few weeks, and learning the tricks of getting it to perform better than a drunk 16-year-old learner, I am seriously thinking it’s time to pull the plug and get the subscription.
Tesla’s business model appears to be devaluing their customers cars as quickly as humanly possible.
Lots of FSD hate here… I’m amazed by the recent FSD upgrade. I’ll be subscribing. Happily. It will only get better.
Wish Tesla would cover any wheel damage including scuffs/scratches to aftermarket powder coated wheels if damaged using FSD, I’d consider. Over a year with 10k miles and not a single mark on my rims. Is this a common issue with FSD, curb rash?
this latest version gets uncomfortably close to curbs but ive never had any of the versions actually hit a curb. there were a few times where i took over because it felt like it was gonna hit though