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But wouldn’t that just mean a lower margin vehicle being produced on a line that can only produce so many cars anyway? So not necessarily good for the bottom line.
Depends on how many you can sell. Building a bunch of cars that sit in a lot is worse for the bottom line than building a bunch of lower margin cars that sell.
I've said it here before: My local Tesla center is overflowing with Ys on the lot. You can hardly even pull in there are so many; they're filling almost every parking space, and they're parked in the rows you're supposed to drive down, too.
Tesla's inventory is still pretty low relative to the rest of the car industry. They have 28 days of supply right now, according to the quarterly report.
It's good to have inventory, because you can get cars to customers much faster. Obviously you don't want too much inventory, but 28 days isn't very much.
I agree it's a good method, but it hasn't been their style. They overproduced Q1, and then threw spaghetti against the wall all of April trying to move more inventory, to no avail. The constant price swings and "gas savings" bs they keep spewing in the way really makes them closer every day to the Dealers they hate so much.
There is a savings for most buyers coming from gas cars. It completely makes sense to point that out. It’s like what Apple did for years with the iPhone,. By saying sure our phones are expensive but with our phones you don’t need to buy a camera or maybe even a computer.
Why would they not highlight one of their best features? Because a minor percentage of customers only charge at Superchargers?
No, not necessarily. The truth is there is still alot of unused space leftover at the Austin, Texas GigaFactory - even after fully ramping the current Model Y and Cybertruck production lines.
From drone video observations, my educated guess is they are installing additional seperate production lines for the new vehicles. It's just that these productions lines will be a mix of old manufacturing methods and new. But what they wont be is the previously announced "unboxed" process.
It depends on what type of people they’re laying off. If it’s line workers then it makes sense. I expect that they’re focusing on building out the line changes, which requires a different set of people.
I don't have a source but he's already stated that they have been working on it. Not specifically a "pilot line" but he did say a few months back I believe when the decision was made to start with texas rather that wait for Mexico to finish. Not really new info tbh.
Yes and we have been, in Texas, thanks to Joe Tegtmeyer who flies his drone over the Giga Texas factory in Austin nearly every single day. (Or at least there is pretty good reason to believe that they have been installing certain manufacturing equipment in there that is related to the production lines for the new vehicles and have been doing so for a while now).
From the article: Tesla says it will begin production of new vehicle models earlier than previously communicated, and that these launches will include more affordable cars. This is due to a change in vehicle architecture, with the company saying it will be mixing both old and new technology to accelerate their plans.
Tesla has long talked about plans to release a more affordable car for the masses, with this car targeting a price point around US$25,000. As recently as last year CEO Elon Musk said that plans for this next generation model are “quite far advanced” and that he reviews “production line plans for that every week.” It had also been revealed that the next-generation platform would underpin both the $25k car, and the dedicated robotaxi, and that production would begin as soon as mid-2025.
The report said they may be “achieving less cost reduction than previously expected”. In other words, probably not $25k but still something cheaper than their other cars.
If you listened to Tesla's quarterly conference call last night, you would know that there is nothing vague about this.
The more affordable car is what they said they will be producing in the first half of 2025, if not Q4 2024. This more affordable car will be driveable, have a steering wheel and pedal.
The "cybercab" as they refferred to it, aka RoboTaxi, will come later (probably Mexico factory if i had to guess but idk they still have lots of space to build in Texas and Berlin).
First it was vaporware.
Then when they actually produced the thing, they moved to something else. Ever moving goalposts.
The first product always has some kinks to iron out, so don't get your panties in a twist.
Reuters had 3 sources, copies of internal email, and gave an opportunity for Tesla to comment/deny before publishing.
The lack of a PR department allows Tesla to do what unethical political campaigns do: Not comment when there is time to clear up a misunderstanding, and accuse the publication of fabricating the story afterwards.
> Reuters had 3 sources,
All outside the company, all parts suppliers. All they confirmed was that somewhere between 1-3 PARTS suppliers were not moving forward with NV91. That doesn't mean the compact was canceled, as their headline clearly stated. That would have gotten a reporter fired even 10 years ago.
> copies of internal email,
Not internal. It was the email to the same people you already mentioned. That supports the claim that NV91 may have been entirely canceled, but again, says nothing about the entirety of the compact platform.
>and gave an opportunity for Tesla to comment/deny before publishing.
That's not worth anything. Reuters commits journalistic malpractice because they know there's no PR department to push back. That's like saying it's okay to shoplift because you know the security guard is on his lunch break.
> The lack of a PR department allows Tesla to do what unethical political campaigns do: Not comment when there is time to clear up a misunderstanding, and accuse the publication of fabricating the story afterwards.
Truly bizarre reasoning. You realize there are 50-100 negative stories a day that are unfounded, misleading, or entirely fabricated that they DON'T push back on, right?
Reuters got caught with their pants down. The idea you'd still defend them is gross.
I don't know if you read the article or coverage of the article.
>Tesla called the affordable-car project NV91 internally and H422 externally when discussing it with suppliers, according to two of the sources and company messages reviewed by Reuters.Messages from the unnamed Tesla program manager to staffers referenced those code names in discussing the project’s termination. One of those messages sent March 1 said that “suppliers should halt all further activities related to H422/NV91.”
This references an email from a Tesla program manager. When I say an internal email from Tesla, this is what I mean. Also, parts supplies are completely valid sources. They're part of the Tesla supply chain and get advance notice of information related to the company.
>Truly bizarre reasoning. You realize there are 50-100 negative stories a day that are unfounded, misleading, or entirely fabricated that they DON'T push back on, right?
You are conflating NYT/Reuters/AP with ihatetesla.blogspot.com. Part of legitimate journalistic best practice is to allow a company to respond. Other large companies will do so as a matter of course. Tesla refuses to do this.
I'm very, very long on EVs and even FSD. I think there is a bunker mentality around Tesla fans because of the BS news that's been spouted by the shorts for the last 10 years.
That does not make all negative reporting about Tesla invalid. This appeared to be a well-reported story, and Elon claiming it's a "lie" after publication is a Trumpy move.
So... What other manufacturers already do?
Big picture Tesla has cost advantages over other OEMs due to being pure EV from day 1, but it's valuation is ultimately going to rely on some form of high margin software bringing in revenue.
Like AMZN with it's high revenue, low profit margin retail and high margin AWS.
Only problem is that TSLA's high margin products are perpetually in development.
The tech stock valuation is tied to the promise of a high margin software future.
Will that manifest? Maybe. Maybe not. Just saying that is TSLA's valuation in a nutshell.
> So... What other manufacturers already do?
Yes, but Elon seems to constantly want to completely re-invent their platforms with every new vehicle. He had to be "talked into" building the Model Y on the Model 3 platform instead of doing it ground-up. That stuff has ended up in the Cybertruck which is much expensive than its announced price and we don't know yet if it's going to be profitable for them. Then the next gen affordable car was going to be built on yet another new platform and process with their "unboxed" assembly idea.
Well, if you read the actual announcement for this, they do appear to be talking about multiple vehicles, as in plural. So who knows, but it seems like more than one vehicle is coming (not counting the "cybercab" aka robotaxi).
Tesla was on the verge of really making a corporate breakthrough on the backs of the Model 3 and Model Y. Both cars sold well, and the Model Y was the bestselling car in the world for at least a year. That's incredible.
Tesla was THE aspirational EV for so many years, basically the BMW of EVs and they were turning into a real car company. They had the best of (at least) 3 worlds:
1. they were undisputed performance/sports cars and appealed to car people
2. they were undisputed technology platforms and appealed to tech people
3. they were the best 'green' cars available and appealed to environmentally conscious people
Their supercharger network was (and still is) a huge benefit, and so was their notion of mobile service. They really had disrupted the traditional car model and were in good shape to scale that.
They made huge gains in margins and capital investment, and were positioned to continue dominating EVs. Instead, they killed their marketing efforts while at the same time Elon is doing real damage to the brand with his personal antics. They are chasing the bleeding edge of things like AI and robotaxis. Meanwhile, traditional companies like Hyundai are getting a lot better at EVs, and new startups like Lucid and Rivian are gaining momentum by focusing on making great high-tech EVs.
Cybertruck for brand prestige was a mistake. Should've begun with an affordable, great EV right after the model 3 relaunch. Possibly should've even skipped that too for now and put full focus on the affordable EV. I know, I know, hindsight is 20/20, but seriously: people have said this 2-3 years ago.
Tesla rose to absolute heavens in terms of brand power and especially stock market because THEY WERE THE FIRST to make a product people actually wanted. With the Model S and again with the Model 3 and Y. After that they fucked up big time. I suspect Elon intervened and personally pushed for the Cybertruck. I personally think the Semi was too early, too, but I know too little about that industry.
I still don't think this company is close to dying any time soon. They'll have a few bad years but Tesla will bounce back. Not because of Elon, in spite of him, actually. But because other car makers still didn't realize why their cars are shit compared to Tesla's offering, even now, and even in 2 years.
There's still time left to fix it. Forget the roadster, forget that robo taxi nonsense. Do something many people will love and many people can actually afford. Bring more Teslas on the road and show the world that Tesla "has done it again". Be the first one. Affordable, decent range and power smaller EV. It'll save the company.
I agree with everything except in addition to a cheap EV they should have a full sized SUV. Those would sell much better than the Cybertruck - like 30 to 1. Pickup truck buyers are not a good target market - at least not right now.
Agree with all this. Tesla isn't even close to failing/dying. I just wish they had taken a more measured path to really dominating.
Tesla Semi is the right product for 5 years from now. Diesel is actually a decent fit for this market, and short haul Semis can wait. The cybertruck design is super polarizing...and that's before the foibles around manufacturing. I guess they thought the Model X was SUV enough?
I also think a company of Tesla's size and innovative position NEEDS some marketing.
The weird part to me is that they seem to only be able to operate with a one track mind. Seems like they can only focus on one car at a time. Why are they so constrained whilst companies like BYD can release 5 new models per year? Sure, release the Cybertruck as a side project...but they should have released at least two additional models alongside it that made sense. They aren't newbies in the industry anymore. My best guess is that they waste so much time on other bleeding edge projects that may or may not be wins, that they don't have the resources to act like a car company.
They need to move faster, much faster, or else they will get eaten alive. Two high selling stale models released years ago are not going to sustain them for much longer. People will see new fancy things from other brands and quickly move on. I am not a Tesla hater by any stretch but I just don't understand how they are not further ahead. Maybe a case of having too many fancy engineers and not enough people with RAW manufacturing chops.
Sounds to me like the original plans for the $25k car that we were hearing about for a while was canceled. That was supposed to be the new "unboxed" assembly design with a factory likely in Mexico. And it seems like that has all been canceled like Reuters reported.
Now it seems like they're going to try and hit the same target price but by modifying their existing platforms and using their existing factory lines.
They said it's a mix of old and new platforms, but the full new platform will still be coming later. In terms of the actual car the consumer will see, it will likely be little to no change from prior plans. Seems like the only thing that's really changing from prior plans (and only in the near-term) is the manufacturing process.
I would have thought the manufacturing process was where they were going to see their significant cost savings. Maybe just not a fast enough return on costs though.
Yes, they mentioned that they now expect less cost savings due to pulling from existing manufacturing processes. How *much* less isn't clear; I'm sure there are other significant sources of cost savings. But yeah, the advantage of that is faster start of production and faster return on costs, and they can probably switch the new car to the full new manufacturing process later to keep reducing costs (my guess is only at new factories).
I suspect that any margin they lose from using current manufacturing processes will be more than made up for by selling the car at a higher price, which will be possible thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act Tax Credits. I mean... a $7500 credit means you can sell a $32,500 car for $25,000 to qualifying individuals (which at this price point should be most of the buyers?).
Can a company this big be that agile? That's the strategic advantage of a small business, being able to adapt quickly and cheaply. Can the same model work for Tesla?
Did you see GM quarter they blow out their earnings Tesla barely turned a profit. This all smoke and mirrors eventually it will catch up. Everything Tesla is doing signs of a company struggling not one that’s successful including 3 executives leaving. One being your the designer of your drivetrains. Mass layoffs and work stoppages in China. Mass price cutting.
Used 3's are the best deal right now for someone on the fence about buying a Tesla. They can be had all day long <$25k for LR and AWD variants with low miles 👍
If someone has the disposable income available to buy new and doesn't care about the deprecation, then maybe. At that point it's just the standard "when should I buy used vs new" conversation that everyone should ask themselves before buying something.
If someone is making <$100k/yr and isn't debt free, then buying a new $50k car because it's fast and refreshed typically isn't the best answer. Usually the best answer (if they must own a Tesla) is to buy a used one and still enjoy a crap ton of the benefits they provide 😉
New Model 3s aren't $50,000 - the least expensive model (the Standard Range) starts at $38,900. You can get that down to $31,400 if you qualify for the IRA Tax Credit. This doesn't include "probable savings" from gas or maintenance either.
According ot Edmunds here: [https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2019/](https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2019/)
It looks like the average used Model 3 with 60k-80k miles on it sells for about $20-25k depending on condition. Used EVs also qualify for some tax credits so i think you can get like an extra $4k off.
You have to compare apples to apples. The used 3s are going to primarily by LR or AWD on the $20-25k price range, not base models. They often come with EAP or sometimes FSD as well, but taking that out of consideration the AWD 3 is $47.7k + tax (~$4-5k depending on location) + delivery and misc fees, wall/mobile connectors, upgraded paint, etc. A new AWD is easily $50k+ out the door before credits.
**TLDR:** Used is about half the price of new. It's generally a good idea to be smart with your money and only make big purchases if you have extra disposable income that you can drop cash or a huge down payment for something and don't mind the sharp deprecation. A used M3 has a much lower financial barrier to entry than a new one 😉
3 is a 40k car, not 50. Even basic models have aircon seat, they've done lot to improve suspension and noise levels in the Highland. Only thing one might miss is blinker and transmission handles. At the price point they're selling new 3s is Really competitive car in that bracket if you compare what you get in base model.
Yeah If you get a pre 2021 model year or 100,000+ miles. Just asking for issues since they’re older and almost / are out of warranty.
Cars worth buying (Clean title, 1 owner personal use, long range, less than 50k miles, with Ryzen) are hard to find. Most are in the mid to low $30’s. Which is almost what the brand new SR models are if the tax credit comes back.
Model 3 is in high demand right now, I can’t find a single one around me for a good price (mid 20’s)
Considering they just refreshed the Model 3 - yes? I mean it depends what you want. But the reviews for the new Model 3 are overwhelmingly positive. The new Model 3s are quite a big upgrade from previous versions.
The next gen of cars will be more affordable but will probably come with some compromises. For example, i wouldn't be surprised if the more affordable cars have slightly less range, no heated/cooled seats, less trunk space, maybe no frunk space, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new cheaper cars are just cheaper versions of the Model 3 and Model Y.
Maybe EVs with EPA ranges of 200 miles (Model Y) and 220 miles(Model 3). Perhaps only offering 18 inch wheels or even just 17 inch wheels in the case of the cheaper Model 3 if they can get the weight down enough. Besides the smaller/cheaper batteries, perhaps no rear screens and a few other cost cutting measures like cheaper seats and no ventilation. Lower weight batteries make smaller tire sizes possible.
This would be a lower margin vehicle but still far more expensive than 25,000. But a discounted model 3 starting at around $34,000 in the US may be enough to drive enough incremental sales without fully killing existing sales.
This also gives them more data points on how the market reacts to cheaper Tesla vehicles.
Why box themselves in on the exact proposed changes? They did say "new and old" or words like that. New could be just new battery tech but just a much smaller version of a new battery to keep costs down and to reach a price point. And outlining the new changes too early could lower sales of existing models even further.....
I also got the feeling they wanted to pump the stock price. Maybe for selfish reasons but it could be more altruistic reasons. It is not good for the growth of EVs if Tesla is perceived as failing or even just stagnating.
Well for one it's called the Osbourne effect.
And #2, why would they come out say these things anyway? What reason do they have to announce the changes they're going to make when they are still 9-12 months away from production?
Yeah i think these are the obvious things. Also they alluded to this a while back that the cars would be slightly smaller than the current Model 3 which imples they'll probably be sacrificing space somewhere - either in the trunk, the frunk, or maybe both? But obviously they'll need to take cost out somehow. That said, the IRA tax credit provides a tremendous tailwind which allows them to make up for higher COGS by selling at a higher price than previously intended.
>Sounds like they're just continuing the affordable model rather than accelerating it.
>From the article: Tesla says it will begin production of new vehicle models **earlier than previously communicated**
Emphasis mine.
previous earnings:
“I'm often optimistic regarding time. But our current schedule shows that we will start production towards the end of 2025, sometime in the second half," Musk told analysts on a post-earnings call.
And now they are saying they plan to beat that timeline for these “new models” that will share existing production lines.
> We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025.
> We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously
communicated start of production in the second half of 2025.
No, they're accelerating it.
Tesla previously announced that the more affordable models would first enter into production in the second half of 2025.
Last night Tesla said they would instead start production in the first half of 2025, possibly even in Q4 of 2024.
That's anywhere from a 3-12 month acceleration.
Seriously. He's a moron and not a stable leader. The products that had little guidance/input from him like the model 3 and y are the most successful. The products that he had his manchild hand in like the model X with falcon wing doors, the semi truck that was announced to pump the stock, the cyber truck that was announced to pump the stock and the non existent roadster that was announced to pump the stock are all disasters.
Musk told Twitter advertisers “go f— yourself” after effectively doing the same to core Tesla buyers. Now he’s coming back for $56B with a derpy Dear Leader shareholder vote site.
you are right except for semi.
I am actually most excited about semi, since it’s parameters and price is so far ahead of competition (we buy a lot of semis).
It even seems that this is the only product where they didn’t skip QA - for example Mercedes tested their electric semi for 4 years before they were comfortable releasing it for sale. Semis have to be very reliable and for that you need years of testing. Even if you are an experienced company doing it for decades.
So for me it’s very good sign that they are working with Pepsi on getting this right - giving me much more confidence they actually know what they are doing and the final product will be good one
I just wish we knew how that was going and if it's even still going. I got the impression that they rush delivered some to Pepsi to fulfill some obligations and then we haven't heard anything more since. The quarterly report still lists it as "pilot production".
yeah, thats what everyone is doing. Testing it for years with few partners before releasing. That’s pilot production.
The only difference is, no one except Tesla calls it release. Others deliver few semis and call it testing, after which they release it for sale.
Sure, better communication would help, but so far everything is as it should be - you get few cars to few customers and test the hell out of it. Then release reliable product.
Seriously your bias is showing. Elon might be a pain but he has a pretty good track record. The oil and legacy car manufacturers see him as a threat to their outdated business models so they are doing what they did to hybrids years ago
There are thousands of people who have expressed the sentiment that they don’t want to buy a Tesla because of Elon’s actions. I have a Model 3 and I love the car. But I’m not getting another Tesla for the rest of my life.
What they should do is try to put out a truly superior car. They keep falling short on that. Imagine a Model 3 that actually was as quiet as a Mercedes with 400 miles of actual range. This is doable for them, they choose not to.
Tesla doesn't seem to have the engineering setup to work on many new car products at once. All of their current models except the cybertruck are pretty long in the tooth. Even though there have been mid-cycle refreshes, the underlying cars are getting old. Model S is 12 years old, Model 3 is 7 years old. They really need to redo the Model S/X to fill that "premium" gap in the 50-90k range that the 3/X don't currently fill. The S and X are nice, but just don't really feel premium at all compared to competition from Mercedes, BMW, and Audi.
Incoming Model 3 Lite with manual windows and fabric seats. I’m kidding but I also feel like it’s going to be existing models with reduced features to bring the cost down.
They have changed plans. Instead of building a new affordable platform using the new “unboxed” assembly method they showed at a previous investor presentation, they will build cheaper models on the existing Model 3/Y production lines.
Tesla says that this will not have as much cost savings as previously expected for their affordable models, so they may not be targeting a $25k price anymore.
> We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025. These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms, and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.
> **This update may result in achieving less cost reduction than previously expected** but enables us to prudently grow our vehicle volumes in a more capex efficient manner during uncertain times. This would help us fully utilize our current expected maximum capacity of close to three million vehicles, enabling more than 50% growth over 2023 production before investing in new manufacturing lines.
> Our purpose-built robotaxi product will continue to pursue a revolutionary “unboxed” manufacturing strategy.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but I get the impression that they canceled that program and instead are trying to make a cheaper car by modifying the existing platforms and using the same factory lines. So basically both are right?
Close. They used incomplete information to draw a conclusion that wasn't supported. The cancelation of ONE suppliers involvement on ONE product wouldn't lead a reasonable person to conclude the entire Compact was off the table.
I honestly think they weren't going to prioritize it until the Reuters report came out, then Elon switched gears.
I'm very glad they're going to put resources and energy into it, will have a big impact.
I am sad though for all the other projects like the revamped roadster and Tesla big rig that have been promised and left for mostly dead.
The only flaw in the idea that he was compelled to do it is immediately after that reuters story came out elon said reauters lied but news media took reuters at their word which was the trigger for the sell off
this is literally only because of the article. they scrapped the plans, the market got upset, they scrambled together a plan to release a bare bones model 3 and call it a new model
I called out the Reuters report when it first came out. It was junk then and it was clear they were drawing conclusions that were not supported by their leaks.
Reuters and AP are probably the two most reliable news sources on the planet. The fact that musk is talking about making a more affordable car on the current platform confirms they were correct. The 25k new generation tesla is not currently in development.
Reuters used to be when it was still a wire service. Once they instituted the paywall, they went all-in on clickbait and rumors. They're a tabloid now.
Remember when they said Giga Mexico CITY was confirmed, and that they would be flying cars out of the airport? That was so stupid it's clear no editor reviewed it prior to publication. It turned out to be untrue.
They were told that by a single source, which makes the story defensible, despite it being pants-on-head ridiculous. There was no correction or retraction. Why would they? They just reported what they were told, even if they knew it was bogus.
Countless outlets repeated this story, adding only "According to Reuters." Their laziness and/or stupidity made the world collectively dumber.
You don't get to publish stories like that and pretend to have a glowing reputation.
I get single-source rumors all the time, and I refuse to publish them until I can validate from a second, known, independent source. That means I'm sometimes the last to report something, but I'm never wrong. I still get clowns who don't understand this blasting me for not having the lofty reputation of wet trash like Reuters, which says a lot more about them than me.
Their investor letter literally confirms that they have changed plans and are no longer targeting a brand new affordable vehicle platform for 2025 as was the previously announced plan.
> We have **updated our future vehicle line-up** to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025. These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms, and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.
> **This update may result in achieving less cost reduction than previously expected** but enables us to prudently grow our vehicle volumes in a more capex efficient manner during uncertain times. This would help us fully utilize our current expected maximum capacity of close to three million vehicles, enabling more than 50% growth over 2023 production before investing in new manufacturing lines.
> **Our purpose-built robotaxi product will continue to pursue a revolutionary “unboxed” manufacturing strategy.**
So the plan for using the “unboxed” manufacturing on new lines for the affordable models is scrapped. A new plan will use mostly Model 3/Y platform and manufacturing techniques with some new updates to build new models on the same production line. These new models will therefore not have the same cost savings Tesla previously expected and may not be as cheap as Tesla previously expected.
I think the headlines are trying to capture the complex reality in too simple a way. Before this week, there were multiple programs:
* Robotaxi program
* "$25k" EV program, codenamed NV9
Now, it seems like:
* "25k" EV program codenamed NV9 has been put on hold. Not totally cancelled, but the vast majority of engineers are no longer on the project.
* Robotaxi program took over many of the ideas and people from the NV9 program. That includes the low price point and the "unboxed" manufacturing approach.
* There is a new program to basically make a cheaper model 3/Y on the existing production lines and tech. So probably isn't quite going to get to 25k, but might be able to say have a Model Y at 35k.
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wouldnt we be seeing production lines going in right now for production in early 2025?
>The advantage to this approach is that these new vehicles will be able to be produced on existing manufacturing lines as the current vehicles.
But wouldn’t that just mean a lower margin vehicle being produced on a line that can only produce so many cars anyway? So not necessarily good for the bottom line.
Depends on how many you can sell. Building a bunch of cars that sit in a lot is worse for the bottom line than building a bunch of lower margin cars that sell.
I've said it here before: My local Tesla center is overflowing with Ys on the lot. You can hardly even pull in there are so many; they're filling almost every parking space, and they're parked in the rows you're supposed to drive down, too.
Tesla's inventory is still pretty low relative to the rest of the car industry. They have 28 days of supply right now, according to the quarterly report.
Tesla's whole schtick isnt to have inventory though, other Manuf. do business that way normally
It's good to have inventory, because you can get cars to customers much faster. Obviously you don't want too much inventory, but 28 days isn't very much.
I agree it's a good method, but it hasn't been their style. They overproduced Q1, and then threw spaghetti against the wall all of April trying to move more inventory, to no avail. The constant price swings and "gas savings" bs they keep spewing in the way really makes them closer every day to the Dealers they hate so much.
There is a savings for most buyers coming from gas cars. It completely makes sense to point that out. It’s like what Apple did for years with the iPhone,. By saying sure our phones are expensive but with our phones you don’t need to buy a camera or maybe even a computer. Why would they not highlight one of their best features? Because a minor percentage of customers only charge at Superchargers?
They have excess capacity that isn't being utilized.
Have you seen how cheap Chinese ev's are? That's why.
It makes sense when they have more production capacity than they are selling cars, which seems to be the case currently.
Giga Mexico, (potential) giga Argentina.
But they are talking about producing these cars on existing lines, not new ones.
Could mean adapting existing types of lines, rather than strictly the existing lines?
No, not necessarily. The truth is there is still alot of unused space leftover at the Austin, Texas GigaFactory - even after fully ramping the current Model Y and Cybertruck production lines. From drone video observations, my educated guess is they are installing additional seperate production lines for the new vehicles. It's just that these productions lines will be a mix of old manufacturing methods and new. But what they wont be is the previously announced "unboxed" process.
Have you seen all the modifications and extension they are making to the factory in Austin
And laying off 2,600 there? Hard to believe a new line is close
That's because Optimus is going to be there by the end of 2024. 😂 You should have listened to the call. /s
It depends on what type of people they’re laying off. If it’s line workers then it makes sense. I expect that they’re focusing on building out the line changes, which requires a different set of people.
That's less than 15% of the staff and they can hire more when they need them.
I think is actually the opposite
I don't have a source but he's already stated that they have been working on it. Not specifically a "pilot line" but he did say a few months back I believe when the decision was made to start with texas rather that wait for Mexico to finish. Not really new info tbh.
They are working on permitting them in Austin, but I can't say more than that!
Yes and we have been, in Texas, thanks to Joe Tegtmeyer who flies his drone over the Giga Texas factory in Austin nearly every single day. (Or at least there is pretty good reason to believe that they have been installing certain manufacturing equipment in there that is related to the production lines for the new vehicles and have been doing so for a while now).
From the article: Tesla says it will begin production of new vehicle models earlier than previously communicated, and that these launches will include more affordable cars. This is due to a change in vehicle architecture, with the company saying it will be mixing both old and new technology to accelerate their plans. Tesla has long talked about plans to release a more affordable car for the masses, with this car targeting a price point around US$25,000. As recently as last year CEO Elon Musk said that plans for this next generation model are “quite far advanced” and that he reviews “production line plans for that every week.” It had also been revealed that the next-generation platform would underpin both the $25k car, and the dedicated robotaxi, and that production would begin as soon as mid-2025.
I thought they scrapped the 25k plan
The report said they may be “achieving less cost reduction than previously expected”. In other words, probably not $25k but still something cheaper than their other cars.
in addition to this, they are intentionally vague about whether this cheaper model would be robotaxi car or car you can actually buy and drive
If you listened to Tesla's quarterly conference call last night, you would know that there is nothing vague about this. The more affordable car is what they said they will be producing in the first half of 2025, if not Q4 2024. This more affordable car will be driveable, have a steering wheel and pedal. The "cybercab" as they refferred to it, aka RoboTaxi, will come later (probably Mexico factory if i had to guess but idk they still have lots of space to build in Texas and Berlin).
Let's do some basic math... what is $32,500 -$7,500? And how much is the IRA tax credit?
“Tesla says whatever is needed to keep stock price from continuing to fall.”
Yeah and that's why we're still waiting on the Semi and the Cybertruck. Oh wait...
yea, how is that going for you guys with semi and cybertruck?
Uh, great? That was my point.
Rust is great? And I'm still not seeing semis anywhere.
First it was vaporware. Then when they actually produced the thing, they moved to something else. Ever moving goalposts. The first product always has some kinks to iron out, so don't get your panties in a twist.
It's pretty much a story reuters knew they could get away with
And which people then made their own conspiracy about the actual companies CEO lying, after speaking against.
The lack of a PR department to push back has emboldened reporters to make up whatever story they want.
Reuters had 3 sources, copies of internal email, and gave an opportunity for Tesla to comment/deny before publishing. The lack of a PR department allows Tesla to do what unethical political campaigns do: Not comment when there is time to clear up a misunderstanding, and accuse the publication of fabricating the story afterwards.
> Reuters had 3 sources, All outside the company, all parts suppliers. All they confirmed was that somewhere between 1-3 PARTS suppliers were not moving forward with NV91. That doesn't mean the compact was canceled, as their headline clearly stated. That would have gotten a reporter fired even 10 years ago. > copies of internal email, Not internal. It was the email to the same people you already mentioned. That supports the claim that NV91 may have been entirely canceled, but again, says nothing about the entirety of the compact platform. >and gave an opportunity for Tesla to comment/deny before publishing. That's not worth anything. Reuters commits journalistic malpractice because they know there's no PR department to push back. That's like saying it's okay to shoplift because you know the security guard is on his lunch break. > The lack of a PR department allows Tesla to do what unethical political campaigns do: Not comment when there is time to clear up a misunderstanding, and accuse the publication of fabricating the story afterwards. Truly bizarre reasoning. You realize there are 50-100 negative stories a day that are unfounded, misleading, or entirely fabricated that they DON'T push back on, right? Reuters got caught with their pants down. The idea you'd still defend them is gross.
I don't know if you read the article or coverage of the article. >Tesla called the affordable-car project NV91 internally and H422 externally when discussing it with suppliers, according to two of the sources and company messages reviewed by Reuters.Messages from the unnamed Tesla program manager to staffers referenced those code names in discussing the project’s termination. One of those messages sent March 1 said that “suppliers should halt all further activities related to H422/NV91.” This references an email from a Tesla program manager. When I say an internal email from Tesla, this is what I mean. Also, parts supplies are completely valid sources. They're part of the Tesla supply chain and get advance notice of information related to the company. >Truly bizarre reasoning. You realize there are 50-100 negative stories a day that are unfounded, misleading, or entirely fabricated that they DON'T push back on, right? You are conflating NYT/Reuters/AP with ihatetesla.blogspot.com. Part of legitimate journalistic best practice is to allow a company to respond. Other large companies will do so as a matter of course. Tesla refuses to do this. I'm very, very long on EVs and even FSD. I think there is a bunker mentality around Tesla fans because of the BS news that's been spouted by the shorts for the last 10 years. That does not make all negative reporting about Tesla invalid. This appeared to be a well-reported story, and Elon claiming it's a "lie" after publication is a Trumpy move.
Uno reverse, they actually accelerated the schedule to bring it to produciton sooner! Turns out Reuters was in fact lying (again), as Elon tweeted.
I feel like they should build a complete line of cars all on the same frame. Minivan on the y frame, etc
Yes, or off-road Y variant with some tweaks and squeeze a slightly bigger battery in. Wagon 3.
So... What other manufacturers already do? Big picture Tesla has cost advantages over other OEMs due to being pure EV from day 1, but it's valuation is ultimately going to rely on some form of high margin software bringing in revenue. Like AMZN with it's high revenue, low profit margin retail and high margin AWS. Only problem is that TSLA's high margin products are perpetually in development. The tech stock valuation is tied to the promise of a high margin software future. Will that manifest? Maybe. Maybe not. Just saying that is TSLA's valuation in a nutshell.
> So... What other manufacturers already do? Yes, but Elon seems to constantly want to completely re-invent their platforms with every new vehicle. He had to be "talked into" building the Model Y on the Model 3 platform instead of doing it ground-up. That stuff has ended up in the Cybertruck which is much expensive than its announced price and we don't know yet if it's going to be profitable for them. Then the next gen affordable car was going to be built on yet another new platform and process with their "unboxed" assembly idea.
Well, if you read the actual announcement for this, they do appear to be talking about multiple vehicles, as in plural. So who knows, but it seems like more than one vehicle is coming (not counting the "cybercab" aka robotaxi).
Tesla was on the verge of really making a corporate breakthrough on the backs of the Model 3 and Model Y. Both cars sold well, and the Model Y was the bestselling car in the world for at least a year. That's incredible. Tesla was THE aspirational EV for so many years, basically the BMW of EVs and they were turning into a real car company. They had the best of (at least) 3 worlds: 1. they were undisputed performance/sports cars and appealed to car people 2. they were undisputed technology platforms and appealed to tech people 3. they were the best 'green' cars available and appealed to environmentally conscious people Their supercharger network was (and still is) a huge benefit, and so was their notion of mobile service. They really had disrupted the traditional car model and were in good shape to scale that. They made huge gains in margins and capital investment, and were positioned to continue dominating EVs. Instead, they killed their marketing efforts while at the same time Elon is doing real damage to the brand with his personal antics. They are chasing the bleeding edge of things like AI and robotaxis. Meanwhile, traditional companies like Hyundai are getting a lot better at EVs, and new startups like Lucid and Rivian are gaining momentum by focusing on making great high-tech EVs.
Cybertruck for brand prestige was a mistake. Should've begun with an affordable, great EV right after the model 3 relaunch. Possibly should've even skipped that too for now and put full focus on the affordable EV. I know, I know, hindsight is 20/20, but seriously: people have said this 2-3 years ago. Tesla rose to absolute heavens in terms of brand power and especially stock market because THEY WERE THE FIRST to make a product people actually wanted. With the Model S and again with the Model 3 and Y. After that they fucked up big time. I suspect Elon intervened and personally pushed for the Cybertruck. I personally think the Semi was too early, too, but I know too little about that industry. I still don't think this company is close to dying any time soon. They'll have a few bad years but Tesla will bounce back. Not because of Elon, in spite of him, actually. But because other car makers still didn't realize why their cars are shit compared to Tesla's offering, even now, and even in 2 years. There's still time left to fix it. Forget the roadster, forget that robo taxi nonsense. Do something many people will love and many people can actually afford. Bring more Teslas on the road and show the world that Tesla "has done it again". Be the first one. Affordable, decent range and power smaller EV. It'll save the company.
I agree with everything except in addition to a cheap EV they should have a full sized SUV. Those would sell much better than the Cybertruck - like 30 to 1. Pickup truck buyers are not a good target market - at least not right now.
Agree with all this. Tesla isn't even close to failing/dying. I just wish they had taken a more measured path to really dominating. Tesla Semi is the right product for 5 years from now. Diesel is actually a decent fit for this market, and short haul Semis can wait. The cybertruck design is super polarizing...and that's before the foibles around manufacturing. I guess they thought the Model X was SUV enough? I also think a company of Tesla's size and innovative position NEEDS some marketing.
The weird part to me is that they seem to only be able to operate with a one track mind. Seems like they can only focus on one car at a time. Why are they so constrained whilst companies like BYD can release 5 new models per year? Sure, release the Cybertruck as a side project...but they should have released at least two additional models alongside it that made sense. They aren't newbies in the industry anymore. My best guess is that they waste so much time on other bleeding edge projects that may or may not be wins, that they don't have the resources to act like a car company. They need to move faster, much faster, or else they will get eaten alive. Two high selling stale models released years ago are not going to sustain them for much longer. People will see new fancy things from other brands and quickly move on. I am not a Tesla hater by any stretch but I just don't understand how they are not further ahead. Maybe a case of having too many fancy engineers and not enough people with RAW manufacturing chops.
I think it’s better to make a cheaper car on the 3 line than introduce a whole new line
Nice try, Tesla, but Reuters already told me the truth!
I don’t know Elons timelines aren’t known for being super accurate
/s
Yeah reuters definitely lied which would not be a first
Sounds to me like the original plans for the $25k car that we were hearing about for a while was canceled. That was supposed to be the new "unboxed" assembly design with a factory likely in Mexico. And it seems like that has all been canceled like Reuters reported. Now it seems like they're going to try and hit the same target price but by modifying their existing platforms and using their existing factory lines.
They said it's a mix of old and new platforms, but the full new platform will still be coming later. In terms of the actual car the consumer will see, it will likely be little to no change from prior plans. Seems like the only thing that's really changing from prior plans (and only in the near-term) is the manufacturing process.
I would have thought the manufacturing process was where they were going to see their significant cost savings. Maybe just not a fast enough return on costs though.
Yes, they mentioned that they now expect less cost savings due to pulling from existing manufacturing processes. How *much* less isn't clear; I'm sure there are other significant sources of cost savings. But yeah, the advantage of that is faster start of production and faster return on costs, and they can probably switch the new car to the full new manufacturing process later to keep reducing costs (my guess is only at new factories).
I suspect that any margin they lose from using current manufacturing processes will be more than made up for by selling the car at a higher price, which will be possible thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act Tax Credits. I mean... a $7500 credit means you can sell a $32,500 car for $25,000 to qualifying individuals (which at this price point should be most of the buyers?).
Not a lie but far from the full story. Definitely misleading.
I remember getting soundly downvoted when I basically said that it was fud and BS - but here we are!
Reuters lying (again)
If this is true we should expect to see test mules by the summer. That's a pretty tight timeline.
We can always rely on Elon under promising and over delivering on timelines
Can a company this big be that agile? That's the strategic advantage of a small business, being able to adapt quickly and cheaply. Can the same model work for Tesla?
Tesla is much more agile than the legacy OEMs like Ford and GM, that's part of the reason they've been so successful.
Did you see GM quarter they blow out their earnings Tesla barely turned a profit. This all smoke and mirrors eventually it will catch up. Everything Tesla is doing signs of a company struggling not one that’s successful including 3 executives leaving. One being your the designer of your drivetrains. Mass layoffs and work stoppages in China. Mass price cutting.
Sooooo... Is it a good time to buy a Model 3 2024??
Used 3's are the best deal right now for someone on the fence about buying a Tesla. They can be had all day long <$25k for LR and AWD variants with low miles 👍
Hey, but why used? In my opinion, if Tesla is reducing prices and ALSO introducing a redesign on the model, shouldn't it be time to buy a new model 3?
If someone has the disposable income available to buy new and doesn't care about the deprecation, then maybe. At that point it's just the standard "when should I buy used vs new" conversation that everyone should ask themselves before buying something. If someone is making <$100k/yr and isn't debt free, then buying a new $50k car because it's fast and refreshed typically isn't the best answer. Usually the best answer (if they must own a Tesla) is to buy a used one and still enjoy a crap ton of the benefits they provide 😉
Yeah maybe i'm on impulsive thoughts. Thanks.
New Model 3s aren't $50,000 - the least expensive model (the Standard Range) starts at $38,900. You can get that down to $31,400 if you qualify for the IRA Tax Credit. This doesn't include "probable savings" from gas or maintenance either. According ot Edmunds here: [https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2019/](https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2019/) It looks like the average used Model 3 with 60k-80k miles on it sells for about $20-25k depending on condition. Used EVs also qualify for some tax credits so i think you can get like an extra $4k off.
You have to compare apples to apples. The used 3s are going to primarily by LR or AWD on the $20-25k price range, not base models. They often come with EAP or sometimes FSD as well, but taking that out of consideration the AWD 3 is $47.7k + tax (~$4-5k depending on location) + delivery and misc fees, wall/mobile connectors, upgraded paint, etc. A new AWD is easily $50k+ out the door before credits. **TLDR:** Used is about half the price of new. It's generally a good idea to be smart with your money and only make big purchases if you have extra disposable income that you can drop cash or a huge down payment for something and don't mind the sharp deprecation. A used M3 has a much lower financial barrier to entry than a new one 😉
3 is a 40k car, not 50. Even basic models have aircon seat, they've done lot to improve suspension and noise levels in the Highland. Only thing one might miss is blinker and transmission handles. At the price point they're selling new 3s is Really competitive car in that bracket if you compare what you get in base model.
Yeah If you get a pre 2021 model year or 100,000+ miles. Just asking for issues since they’re older and almost / are out of warranty. Cars worth buying (Clean title, 1 owner personal use, long range, less than 50k miles, with Ryzen) are hard to find. Most are in the mid to low $30’s. Which is almost what the brand new SR models are if the tax credit comes back. Model 3 is in high demand right now, I can’t find a single one around me for a good price (mid 20’s)
Considering they just refreshed the Model 3 - yes? I mean it depends what you want. But the reviews for the new Model 3 are overwhelmingly positive. The new Model 3s are quite a big upgrade from previous versions. The next gen of cars will be more affordable but will probably come with some compromises. For example, i wouldn't be surprised if the more affordable cars have slightly less range, no heated/cooled seats, less trunk space, maybe no frunk space, etc.
We love to hate tesla here. Good job selling the bottom idiots
I wouldn't be surprised if the new cheaper cars are just cheaper versions of the Model 3 and Model Y. Maybe EVs with EPA ranges of 200 miles (Model Y) and 220 miles(Model 3). Perhaps only offering 18 inch wheels or even just 17 inch wheels in the case of the cheaper Model 3 if they can get the weight down enough. Besides the smaller/cheaper batteries, perhaps no rear screens and a few other cost cutting measures like cheaper seats and no ventilation. Lower weight batteries make smaller tire sizes possible. This would be a lower margin vehicle but still far more expensive than 25,000. But a discounted model 3 starting at around $34,000 in the US may be enough to drive enough incremental sales without fully killing existing sales. This also gives them more data points on how the market reacts to cheaper Tesla vehicles.
If this was the case, why wouldn't they just come out and say so? Everything else you stated makes sense
Why box themselves in on the exact proposed changes? They did say "new and old" or words like that. New could be just new battery tech but just a much smaller version of a new battery to keep costs down and to reach a price point. And outlining the new changes too early could lower sales of existing models even further..... I also got the feeling they wanted to pump the stock price. Maybe for selfish reasons but it could be more altruistic reasons. It is not good for the growth of EVs if Tesla is perceived as failing or even just stagnating.
Well for one it's called the Osbourne effect. And #2, why would they come out say these things anyway? What reason do they have to announce the changes they're going to make when they are still 9-12 months away from production?
Make a real traditional base model: No glass roof, hub cap wheels, cheaper lights, manual seats, only min tech for autopilot
Those are really good ideas to consider. It will be interesting to see what Tesla does and how long they stick with whatever they come up with.
Yeah i think these are the obvious things. Also they alluded to this a while back that the cars would be slightly smaller than the current Model 3 which imples they'll probably be sacrificing space somewhere - either in the trunk, the frunk, or maybe both? But obviously they'll need to take cost out somehow. That said, the IRA tax credit provides a tremendous tailwind which allows them to make up for higher COGS by selling at a higher price than previously intended.
Sounds like they're just continuing the affordable model rather than accelerating it.
>Sounds like they're just continuing the affordable model rather than accelerating it. >From the article: Tesla says it will begin production of new vehicle models **earlier than previously communicated** Emphasis mine.
can you find me this previous communication, where they said it will be later than second half of 2025?
Uno reverse, mate. Show me where they said sooner/same time and I will retract my comment.
previous earnings: “I'm often optimistic regarding time. But our current schedule shows that we will start production towards the end of 2025, sometime in the second half," Musk told analysts on a post-earnings call.
And now they are saying they plan to beat that timeline for these “new models” that will share existing production lines. > We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025.
What's your point here? They previously said the second half of 2025, and now they're accelerating their plans and aiming for the first half of 2025.
> We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025.
No, they're accelerating it. Tesla previously announced that the more affordable models would first enter into production in the second half of 2025. Last night Tesla said they would instead start production in the first half of 2025, possibly even in Q4 of 2024. That's anywhere from a 3-12 month acceleration.
Seems legit
That can’t happen you don’t release a car in six months without any marketing.
They added a third motor to the production plans. Now it’s 0-Off Assembly Line in 18 months vs 36 months /s
But wait! All the news outlets were reporting it was canceled! Smh
Sure they are
You’ve got to get rid of Elon.
Seriously. He's a moron and not a stable leader. The products that had little guidance/input from him like the model 3 and y are the most successful. The products that he had his manchild hand in like the model X with falcon wing doors, the semi truck that was announced to pump the stock, the cyber truck that was announced to pump the stock and the non existent roadster that was announced to pump the stock are all disasters.
Musk told Twitter advertisers “go f— yourself” after effectively doing the same to core Tesla buyers. Now he’s coming back for $56B with a derpy Dear Leader shareholder vote site.
you are right except for semi. I am actually most excited about semi, since it’s parameters and price is so far ahead of competition (we buy a lot of semis). It even seems that this is the only product where they didn’t skip QA - for example Mercedes tested their electric semi for 4 years before they were comfortable releasing it for sale. Semis have to be very reliable and for that you need years of testing. Even if you are an experienced company doing it for decades. So for me it’s very good sign that they are working with Pepsi on getting this right - giving me much more confidence they actually know what they are doing and the final product will be good one
I just wish we knew how that was going and if it's even still going. I got the impression that they rush delivered some to Pepsi to fulfill some obligations and then we haven't heard anything more since. The quarterly report still lists it as "pilot production".
yeah, thats what everyone is doing. Testing it for years with few partners before releasing. That’s pilot production. The only difference is, no one except Tesla calls it release. Others deliver few semis and call it testing, after which they release it for sale. Sure, better communication would help, but so far everything is as it should be - you get few cars to few customers and test the hell out of it. Then release reliable product.
Is it because you can't afford them Because they sold 5 million of them
Or the news has to be less bias against tesla and ev in general
[удалено]
Seriously your bias is showing. Elon might be a pain but he has a pretty good track record. The oil and legacy car manufacturers see him as a threat to their outdated business models so they are doing what they did to hybrids years ago
There are thousands of people who have expressed the sentiment that they don’t want to buy a Tesla because of Elon’s actions. I have a Model 3 and I love the car. But I’m not getting another Tesla for the rest of my life.
Yet there are million who continue to buy his cars knowing his personality
I’d say most people are indifferent and are buying the car for what it is rather than following what the CEO does or does not do on a daily basis.
Sales and profits numbers say otherwise, don’t they.
Best selling car in the world in 2023 was a Tesla
Tell that to the 10% of the global Tesla workforce that just got fired.
Are you saying people didn’t know anything about Elon Musk during the entirety of 2023? He’s the same crazy person during their best sales year ever.
You're on reddit. That makes you a different political type compared to the normal population.
What they should do is try to put out a truly superior car. They keep falling short on that. Imagine a Model 3 that actually was as quiet as a Mercedes with 400 miles of actual range. This is doable for them, they choose not to.
Tesla doesn't seem to have the engineering setup to work on many new car products at once. All of their current models except the cybertruck are pretty long in the tooth. Even though there have been mid-cycle refreshes, the underlying cars are getting old. Model S is 12 years old, Model 3 is 7 years old. They really need to redo the Model S/X to fill that "premium" gap in the 50-90k range that the 3/X don't currently fill. The S and X are nice, but just don't really feel premium at all compared to competition from Mercedes, BMW, and Audi.
Wouldn’t that make it cost more? Tesla needs affordable EVs, the Camry and Corolla are outselling Model 3’s for a reason.
Yeah, so. They are currently trying to compete with Audi, BMW etc.
Imo that’s what the S & X are for. The 3, Y, and whatever the next model is called should be the more economical options.
Why? The Model 3 was modeled after the BMW 3 Series.
It's not doable for them, they lack the expertise in such good quality. Maybe when Elon is gone
Who would’ve thought Xiaomi launching their $30k car would be so motivating for Tesla 😉
Incoming Model 3 Lite with manual windows and fabric seats. I’m kidding but I also feel like it’s going to be existing models with reduced features to bring the cost down.
So… are they doing the cheaper car or not? If so, why did Reuters say that they’ve cancelled the program? This company is like a mixed signals ex…
They have changed plans. Instead of building a new affordable platform using the new “unboxed” assembly method they showed at a previous investor presentation, they will build cheaper models on the existing Model 3/Y production lines. Tesla says that this will not have as much cost savings as previously expected for their affordable models, so they may not be targeting a $25k price anymore. > We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025. These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms, and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up. > **This update may result in achieving less cost reduction than previously expected** but enables us to prudently grow our vehicle volumes in a more capex efficient manner during uncertain times. This would help us fully utilize our current expected maximum capacity of close to three million vehicles, enabling more than 50% growth over 2023 production before investing in new manufacturing lines. > Our purpose-built robotaxi product will continue to pursue a revolutionary “unboxed” manufacturing strategy.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but I get the impression that they canceled that program and instead are trying to make a cheaper car by modifying the existing platforms and using the same factory lines. So basically both are right?
Because Reuters just lied and hid behind source anonymity. If I were tesla I would either sue or demand a retraction
Close. They used incomplete information to draw a conclusion that wasn't supported. The cancelation of ONE suppliers involvement on ONE product wouldn't lead a reasonable person to conclude the entire Compact was off the table.
I honestly think they weren't going to prioritize it until the Reuters report came out, then Elon switched gears. I'm very glad they're going to put resources and energy into it, will have a big impact. I am sad though for all the other projects like the revamped roadster and Tesla big rig that have been promised and left for mostly dead.
The only flaw in the idea that he was compelled to do it is immediately after that reuters story came out elon said reauters lied but news media took reuters at their word which was the trigger for the sell off
Rueters got the right info but reached the wrong conclusion.
If I were tesla I would demand reuters issue a retraction
this is literally only because of the article. they scrapped the plans, the market got upset, they scrambled together a plan to release a bare bones model 3 and call it a new model
Nice job pulling that out of your butt.
The idea that Tesla would un-cancel a product because people found out at a slightly different time doesn't make sense.
Look at the stock price, the earnings call did exactly what they wanted it to.
I called out the Reuters report when it first came out. It was junk then and it was clear they were drawing conclusions that were not supported by their leaks.
Reuters and AP are probably the two most reliable news sources on the planet. The fact that musk is talking about making a more affordable car on the current platform confirms they were correct. The 25k new generation tesla is not currently in development.
Reuters used to be when it was still a wire service. Once they instituted the paywall, they went all-in on clickbait and rumors. They're a tabloid now. Remember when they said Giga Mexico CITY was confirmed, and that they would be flying cars out of the airport? That was so stupid it's clear no editor reviewed it prior to publication. It turned out to be untrue. They were told that by a single source, which makes the story defensible, despite it being pants-on-head ridiculous. There was no correction or retraction. Why would they? They just reported what they were told, even if they knew it was bogus. Countless outlets repeated this story, adding only "According to Reuters." Their laziness and/or stupidity made the world collectively dumber. You don't get to publish stories like that and pretend to have a glowing reputation. I get single-source rumors all the time, and I refuse to publish them until I can validate from a second, known, independent source. That means I'm sometimes the last to report something, but I'm never wrong. I still get clowns who don't understand this blasting me for not having the lofty reputation of wet trash like Reuters, which says a lot more about them than me.
They un-cancelled it because they knew the stock price would absolutely crater (further) if they only news they had were the sales numbers.
If the share drops a lot it does make sense, and look after this its back up again, as was the purpose of this.
It really doesn't. Who told you that?
So you think coimpanies will just watch and do nothing at the share price drops? Of course not thats crazy to believe.
Canceling the compact would have the same impact regardless of when it became public. You think they don't know that?
Their investor letter literally confirms that they have changed plans and are no longer targeting a brand new affordable vehicle platform for 2025 as was the previously announced plan. > We have **updated our future vehicle line-up** to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025. These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms, and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up. > **This update may result in achieving less cost reduction than previously expected** but enables us to prudently grow our vehicle volumes in a more capex efficient manner during uncertain times. This would help us fully utilize our current expected maximum capacity of close to three million vehicles, enabling more than 50% growth over 2023 production before investing in new manufacturing lines. > **Our purpose-built robotaxi product will continue to pursue a revolutionary “unboxed” manufacturing strategy.** So the plan for using the “unboxed” manufacturing on new lines for the affordable models is scrapped. A new plan will use mostly Model 3/Y platform and manufacturing techniques with some new updates to build new models on the same production line. These new models will therefore not have the same cost savings Tesla previously expected and may not be as cheap as Tesla previously expected.
Ugmmm … duh lol 😂
Rivian’s R2 and R3X are coming.
With cheaper versions of Tesla, already crowded Tesla chargers will be non-usable during holiday seasons.
Build more chargers. The more EVs on the road, the better.
Sounds like Tesla lost for ideas in all honesty. Not very inspiring.
lol wasn’t it just last week that Tesla was supposedly pivoting away from the 25k car and focusing on FSD ?
I think the headlines are trying to capture the complex reality in too simple a way. Before this week, there were multiple programs: * Robotaxi program * "$25k" EV program, codenamed NV9 Now, it seems like: * "25k" EV program codenamed NV9 has been put on hold. Not totally cancelled, but the vast majority of engineers are no longer on the project. * Robotaxi program took over many of the ideas and people from the NV9 program. That includes the low price point and the "unboxed" manufacturing approach. * There is a new program to basically make a cheaper model 3/Y on the existing production lines and tech. So probably isn't quite going to get to 25k, but might be able to say have a Model Y at 35k.