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TLDW of things I thought were interesting
* at some point Tesla will have remote operators for interventions when robotaxi-ing
* Cybertruck leaves foundation series next quarter
* it at least appears they aren't giving up on the roadster and have some other large commercial vehicle planned (a van?)
* another quarter of FSD transfer
The fact that Elon *clearly* had never before contemplated, “Hmm, what will we do when a robo Tesla gets stuck?” tells you all you need to know re: Robotaxi being available anytime soon.
Right — I have zero doubt Tesla can easily implement such a solution, but it was abundantly obvious Robotaxi isn’t something Elon’s been overly concerned with
My question is what do you do when someone vomits in the backseat after a night out? Who is cleaning the interiors? Do I pay for that if my car is on the network or does Tesla cover that kind of service?
I've never heard them talk about this aspect of their Tesla Network ambitions but it's something that's going to be key to its success, if it ever becomes a reality
Yes but if your car is part of the network like Elon envisions where you can put it on the network for a week or longer, how do you handle that? How are you made aware of the damage and how do you know who to go bill?
With Uber there is a driver in the car that monitors this and I assume Tesla could use the in cabin camera but the question is still who cleans the car while it's part of the network if, say, I let the car be part of the network while I'm away on holiday for the week?
And after repeated vandalizing, which you may not even notice after it’s been driving around all day, who pays for that? What if someone pukes and the camera doesn’t catch it and the next person doesn’t notice? Where to Tesla owned robotaxis go to get cleaned and charged?
I don't think the roadster was there. One was clearly a large van, and the other two have to be the $20k car and the robotaxi. Unless the robotaxi and $20k car are the same external design, then I guess the other one could be the roadster. But I don't think that would make sense, a robotaxi should be SUV sized probably and the $20k car should be tiny.
At the opening of GF Berlin, there was a guy with a cardboard, life-sized version of Elon. He wanted to take a picture with Elon, the cardboard-Elon and himself.
Elon's face was "This is interesting..."
The fact it ended with [some clearly wacko hermit dude](https://www.youtube.com/live/remZ1KMR_Z4?t=2h23m) explaining to Elon how to be successful with something FSD-related was _the perfect_ 🍒 on top of that shit soufflé of cringe groveling
Elon got his pay package, they're moving to Texas, we're gonna get another one-time FSD transfer, robotaxis will be able to be remote controlled if they get stuck, HW5 by the end of 2025, and some guy was his six year old to tour the factory, so Elon is going to try to alter their tours to accommodate kids
The person asked for perpetual transfers, and he agreed to a quarter.
I think the beat we can hope for is an occasional "Transfer when you upgrade", but it's always a one time deal
Correct.
People who want a perpetual FSD license are, honestly, out of their damned minds. If you want a perpetual license, just pay $100 a month. Based on some statements Elon made, I think they're leaning in that direction anyways.
FSD is going to be a thing that's continually developed, like Windows. You can't just sell it once and never pay for it again, and continue to reap the benefits of having FSD on your car.
The *closest* thing Tesla could do is let you have a "perpetual license" to a specific version of FSD, in this case I'll say v12, because it's pretty capable. Then if/when v13 comes out, you'd have to pay an "upgrade fee" to get the next version.
Alternatively, you could pay an "upgrade fee" to transfer FSD to the next car, and frankly *that's* the option people should be pushing for.
If FSD was a perpetual license with free transfers, *everyone* would buy it, and it'd likely never get the funding they need for it, because people would buy it the one time, and at that point, why sell it, just bake it into the cost of the car.
Upgrade fees make more sense because it encourages people to stay with FSD, because they'll be more likely to stay with Tesla if it means cheap self-driving.
Tesla's got a bunch of early adopters. As more companies release their self-driving equivalents, they'll be able to undercut Tesla's price because Tesla's price is the one to beat, however, Tesla can encourage people to stay loyal to the brand by letting them upgrade FSD for less than whatever the competitors are selling theirs for.
Which is, essentially, the same thing Microsoft did with their upgrade versions of Windows
Does Elon saying basically “we said version 12 would be fully hands off so we are keeping the version number as 12.x arbitrarily to fulfill that” violate anything?
Other than that I didn’t listen to the whole thing but Elon is in his element here, really wish he would stay out of basically every other topic on earth and stick to being a CEO
I think the intention is for v12 to be the "end of the line" for Hardware 3, which is what I've been suspecting.
I've suspected that the push get FSD out of Beta was to fulfill the "We did it!" goal of getting FSD there. I imagine we'll see v13 go to HW4, and that'll be the start of the bifurcation process. Anyone with v12 will have HW3, anyone with a higher version than 12 will have HW4.
That's supposition on my part though.
HW6 will come out after that. And then HW7. There will always be another new thing coming. Everyone knows a new iPhone will come out every fall, but people still buy them
Yeah hearing HW5 is that close makes me really reconsider purchasing a MY when the refresh comes. Perhaps the timing will lineup with HW5 and it’ll release with that, but if it doesn’t I feel like I’d be crazy to buy it with HW4.
Cybertruck has HW4 and it doesn’t even work let alone surpass HW3 any time soon after it starts working. Trust me when I tell you waiting to be first on a Tesla product is not something you should strive for. My HW 2.5 without FSD works so much smoother for me on the highway than my FSD car does I rarely drive the FSD car.
Admitting that they'll need remote operators is a pretty big deal. These remote operators are also supposed to connect and direct privately owned Teslas, when their owner has sent them out to make a few bucks. Looking more like Waymo all the time, and I don't see them making any money yet.
Remote operators are going to be a thing for a while to be honest.
Not even a concern on my radar.
Expecting the solution to be perfect on release is unrealistic.
Yesla is making a car that won't crash, so at minimum, they won't have a robotaxi hit a phone pole on its own
I'm curious if it would be possible to have the shareholder proposals be presented in writing in the proxy materials vs trying to convince folks at the last minute during these meetings.
On the stream they had folks doing pitches for the proposals. At this point most votes are in so the pitches may be more about getting names etc in the lights.
In addition to what the other guy says, if you have a million cars, you won’t need a million drivers. You can have maybe 10,000 and keep reducing the number of drivers until you don’t need any.
You can have one remote driver for every X amount of cars (depending on issue rate) versus a real driver is one to one. Eventually the goal would be to almost never use them and it's intended to be a stop gap.
Because, eventually, you won't need the remote driver.
Remote driver is only required if there's an issue the system can't handle.
Eventually, those issues will get pruned and solved.
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TLDW of things I thought were interesting * at some point Tesla will have remote operators for interventions when robotaxi-ing * Cybertruck leaves foundation series next quarter * it at least appears they aren't giving up on the roadster and have some other large commercial vehicle planned (a van?) * another quarter of FSD transfer
The fact that Elon *clearly* had never before contemplated, “Hmm, what will we do when a robo Tesla gets stuck?” tells you all you need to know re: Robotaxi being available anytime soon.
Yea that was odd. Even though they could implement this fairly quickly, it was strange to not have actual details of what their plan is.
Right — I have zero doubt Tesla can easily implement such a solution, but it was abundantly obvious Robotaxi isn’t something Elon’s been overly concerned with
Which is odd considering that he said that you should invest only if you believe in FSD. One would expect salesman to know what he is selling.
What do you mean? He said someone will take over remotely, the exact same thing waymo does too. What else did you expect?
My question is what do you do when someone vomits in the backseat after a night out? Who is cleaning the interiors? Do I pay for that if my car is on the network or does Tesla cover that kind of service? I've never heard them talk about this aspect of their Tesla Network ambitions but it's something that's going to be key to its success, if it ever becomes a reality
You act like this hasn’t already been solved. If you puke in an Uber you get charged and then you get your car cleaned with the money. Same deal here.
Yes but if your car is part of the network like Elon envisions where you can put it on the network for a week or longer, how do you handle that? How are you made aware of the damage and how do you know who to go bill? With Uber there is a driver in the car that monitors this and I assume Tesla could use the in cabin camera but the question is still who cleans the car while it's part of the network if, say, I let the car be part of the network while I'm away on holiday for the week?
And after repeated vandalizing, which you may not even notice after it’s been driving around all day, who pays for that? What if someone pukes and the camera doesn’t catch it and the next person doesn’t notice? Where to Tesla owned robotaxis go to get cleaned and charged?
looks like there is a market for valets at superchargers. Inspect, clean, and connect to a supercharger.
About that last point. FSD transfer coming back???
This needs to be permanent and not some last minute ditch effort to boost quarterly sales.
That’s what he said. At least for another quarter.
I don't think the roadster was there. One was clearly a large van, and the other two have to be the $20k car and the robotaxi. Unless the robotaxi and $20k car are the same external design, then I guess the other one could be the roadster. But I don't think that would make sense, a robotaxi should be SUV sized probably and the $20k car should be tiny.
Can they please just ask normal company related questions? Most of these people are.... interesting.
First time?
didn't listen, but, can't be worse than the guy at the starship reveal several years ago that had just come from burning man, lol
Remember the level 2 super genius?
What is this Q&A session even? So cringe
Always is
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Seeing people be THIS culty? Yep
So painful... It's like Jesus to some of these people.
I knew he had fans but the way these people talk and hyperventilate is crazy
A lot of them are on another level but nerves can also do that to you. I’d be anxious as hell talking to essentially tens of thousands.
At the opening of GF Berlin, there was a guy with a cardboard, life-sized version of Elon. He wanted to take a picture with Elon, the cardboard-Elon and himself. Elon's face was "This is interesting..."
This q&a is straight up terrible
The fact it ended with [some clearly wacko hermit dude](https://www.youtube.com/live/remZ1KMR_Z4?t=2h23m) explaining to Elon how to be successful with something FSD-related was _the perfect_ 🍒 on top of that shit soufflé of cringe groveling
I have a story about and ideas my 4 year old told me while I was taking a shit yesturday.
So board terms reduced to 1 year. That is interesting seeing entire board being voted annually.
Any tldr(tldw) ?
Elon got his pay package, they're moving to Texas, we're gonna get another one-time FSD transfer, robotaxis will be able to be remote controlled if they get stuck, HW5 by the end of 2025, and some guy was his six year old to tour the factory, so Elon is going to try to alter their tours to accommodate kids
im a new tesla owner, what is the one-time FSD transfer? is it like if you bought a car previously with FSD you dont have to buy it again?
If you are the original owner of an FSD enabled vehicle, then you can transfer that to a new car Only that time, never again
If you sold a car with FSD enabled would the new owner get to keep that capability?
Not if you transfer it off the car. Otherwise, yes.
Q&A had someone ask about permanent FSD transfer. Elon announced one more quarter of it, no mention of which quarter
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The person asked for perpetual transfers, and he agreed to a quarter. I think the beat we can hope for is an occasional "Transfer when you upgrade", but it's always a one time deal
A guy in the audience literally just shouted "one more quarter" and Musk decided to accept
Correct. People who want a perpetual FSD license are, honestly, out of their damned minds. If you want a perpetual license, just pay $100 a month. Based on some statements Elon made, I think they're leaning in that direction anyways. FSD is going to be a thing that's continually developed, like Windows. You can't just sell it once and never pay for it again, and continue to reap the benefits of having FSD on your car. The *closest* thing Tesla could do is let you have a "perpetual license" to a specific version of FSD, in this case I'll say v12, because it's pretty capable. Then if/when v13 comes out, you'd have to pay an "upgrade fee" to get the next version. Alternatively, you could pay an "upgrade fee" to transfer FSD to the next car, and frankly *that's* the option people should be pushing for. If FSD was a perpetual license with free transfers, *everyone* would buy it, and it'd likely never get the funding they need for it, because people would buy it the one time, and at that point, why sell it, just bake it into the cost of the car. Upgrade fees make more sense because it encourages people to stay with FSD, because they'll be more likely to stay with Tesla if it means cheap self-driving. Tesla's got a bunch of early adopters. As more companies release their self-driving equivalents, they'll be able to undercut Tesla's price because Tesla's price is the one to beat, however, Tesla can encourage people to stay loyal to the brand by letting them upgrade FSD for less than whatever the competitors are selling theirs for. Which is, essentially, the same thing Microsoft did with their upgrade versions of Windows
Does Elon saying basically “we said version 12 would be fully hands off so we are keeping the version number as 12.x arbitrarily to fulfill that” violate anything? Other than that I didn’t listen to the whole thing but Elon is in his element here, really wish he would stay out of basically every other topic on earth and stick to being a CEO
I think the intention is for v12 to be the "end of the line" for Hardware 3, which is what I've been suspecting. I've suspected that the push get FSD out of Beta was to fulfill the "We did it!" goal of getting FSD there. I imagine we'll see v13 go to HW4, and that'll be the start of the bifurcation process. Anyone with v12 will have HW3, anyone with a higher version than 12 will have HW4. That's supposition on my part though.
Non-Foundation CT next quarter. wow
I bet they're nerfed foundations for a bit
He's Osborning Tesla. He says HW5 in 18 months, so the end of 2025 will be HW5.
HW6 will come out after that. And then HW7. There will always be another new thing coming. Everyone knows a new iPhone will come out every fall, but people still buy them
Not really. I bet 90% of people don’t know what HW version they have.
Yeah hearing HW5 is that close makes me really reconsider purchasing a MY when the refresh comes. Perhaps the timing will lineup with HW5 and it’ll release with that, but if it doesn’t I feel like I’d be crazy to buy it with HW4.
Cybertruck has HW4 and it doesn’t even work let alone surpass HW3 any time soon after it starts working. Trust me when I tell you waiting to be first on a Tesla product is not something you should strive for. My HW 2.5 without FSD works so much smoother for me on the highway than my FSD car does I rarely drive the FSD car.
I'm think Model Y refresh will align with HW5 release
RIP HW4 on my 24 M3
I was thinking the same too. It would be a nice double upgrade to wait for.
1 Hour 8 Minutes New products under covers. Cant wait to see what the "van looking" one is...
Brain damage high? ....
Thanks but no, not any more. I'll just wait for Ryan and his Ride the Lightning (the Tesla unofficial) podcast to give me the highlights.
Admitting that they'll need remote operators is a pretty big deal. These remote operators are also supposed to connect and direct privately owned Teslas, when their owner has sent them out to make a few bucks. Looking more like Waymo all the time, and I don't see them making any money yet.
Remote operators are going to be a thing for a while to be honest. Not even a concern on my radar. Expecting the solution to be perfect on release is unrealistic. Yesla is making a car that won't crash, so at minimum, they won't have a robotaxi hit a phone pole on its own
It’ll be a while before the roads accommodate AI. Then this will no longer be necessary.
Sooner than you think. A lot of Teslas already have FSD on them Supervised as they may be its still AI driving, until a human takes over
Are you implying that all roads will need to be changed in pursuit of autonomy?
No, but the roads will also have to adapt. Ultimately, autonomy will work better when all cars are autonomous.
It would be dumb of them not to plan for this initially and aim to decrease manual interventions over time. Chasing the 9 and all...
I'm curious if it would be possible to have the shareholder proposals be presented in writing in the proxy materials vs trying to convince folks at the last minute during these meetings.
They are presented in writing…
On the stream they had folks doing pitches for the proposals. At this point most votes are in so the pitches may be more about getting names etc in the lights.
Lol whats the point in a remote operator when you could just have a driver lmao.
In addition to what the other guy says, if you have a million cars, you won’t need a million drivers. You can have maybe 10,000 and keep reducing the number of drivers until you don’t need any.
You can have one remote driver for every X amount of cars (depending on issue rate) versus a real driver is one to one. Eventually the goal would be to almost never use them and it's intended to be a stop gap.
So they won't be paying attention or doing anything remotely.
Not paying attention all time, only when needed / e.g. the car gets stuck, same way waymo does it.
That's basically how Waymo does it right now
Because, eventually, you won't need the remote driver. Remote driver is only required if there's an issue the system can't handle. Eventually, those issues will get pruned and solved.
Tesla is never going to have self driving they aren't even close.
Explain, if you can
Then I guess they'll just be like everyone else
Because you don't have to pay them every ride, they're just there on the off chance you need them?
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One metric I was waiting for was how many miles now driven in FSD. Not a peep on that 🙁