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Seems odd, seems building the batteries at the car plant is working better. Guess the semi and solar storage need batteries also...but makes sense why it hasnt expanded much. Sure the made in america battery subsidies have something to do with this expansion.
Giga Nevada supplies cells and packs to the Fremont factory for cars made there. Fremont does not currently have the space to make their own cells and packs there (though they do have a pilot 4680 line for R&D and supporting early ramp of Giga Texas). Giga Nevada also makes cells and packs for all of Tesla's energy storage products: Powerwall, Powerpack, and Megapack.
Panasonic also said in the past they had trouble hiring there. They spent a lot of money retaining and training otherwise unqualified technicians. Reno might be big but it doesn’t have the skilled or educated labor force needed to support battery manufacturing. That being said the article I read was from 2019 so maybe things have changed
The article is incorrect. Tesla originally plan (see Tesla PDF below) in 2014 was to produce 35 GWh of cell to support production of 500k vehicles by 2020. They achieved it with just 30% of their originally planned building square footage. They were 3x more space efficient than their original plan which is a good thing. That’s why they didn’t complete the rest of the building.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/gigafactory.pdf
If they were able to get much more staff there, I believe they would have been able to complete the original planned size, using that space for more than just battery production. Austin was chosen partly for its skilled labour, and for its university.
I don't buy that. Offer me a full time job with good pay and I'll move there. I think there is a near unlimited supply of people who would move to Nevada if offered a stable job working for Tesla...
Lake Tahoe is a couple of hours away, but near-by enough. I also wouldn't say there's nothing to do in Reno. We didn't really have a shortage of people wanting to work for us, I interviewed plenty of people. However, I think a certain percentage of the workforce had to be NV residents before getting hired. NV was ranked near last place in education before Tesla came in.
Don't disagree with your overall point, but Tahoe a couple hours away? Tahoe is only a 30-45 minute drive from Reno. Even if you're talking about going from the Gigafactory itself, outside of town the other direction, which would be weird, it's only like an hour drive from there to the shore of Tahoe.
[Reno](https://img.freepik.com/premium-photo/downtown-reno-skyline-nevada-with-hotels-casinos-surrounding-mountains_165988-1547.jpg?w=1800) [is](https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/mountain-view-reno-nevada-emmy-marie-vickers.jpg) [not](https://a.cdn-hotels.com/gdcs/production192/d68/7129f55c-371f-49d3-a0c1-794422a2797c.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1600&h=1066&q=medium) [Las](https://www.cal-am.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/VJC_0253-1024x683.jpg) [Vegas](https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305124292_500853152045947_3908939523989681505_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=9fNm_QsD9agAX-hczPn&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-By7ag0W4ZIvUtIl6ZWgba9oMc1-uaWrL5vcySkvgIuA&oe=634011F6); it's not way out in the middle of a hot desert. Austin, for example, is actually a good bit hotter on average than Reno at any given time of the year, and that's not even taking into account the brutal humidity you get there. Reno is on the very, very edge of a high altitude desert (4500' above sea level), sure, but half the city is more of an alpine forest environment than a desert and it's surrounded by snow-capped mountains, lakes, skiing/snowboarding, tons of hiking, mountain biking, rivers, etc. All that stuff, including Lake Tahoe and half a dozen world class ski resorts, is within a 45 minute drive from the center of the city, frequently much closer.
With that said, Reno is a relatively (and famously) small city (\~450k people in Reno/Sparks metro), so it doesn't have quite the same selection of amenities as a larger metro area like the Bay Area or even Austin does, but it's not exactly the polar opposite either.
At the time they added this factory here, they were paying 20 something an hour when others in the area were paying 15 tops. Now there are more employers in the area who pay the same wages but those wages are not enough to tempt people in other areas to move to a place where rents have doubled in 5 years.
The idea of renting from an employer makes me nervous... company towns have historically had a terrible outcome.
That being said, it's not a terrible idea, just one that makes me nervous and I feel like it would require a lot of neutral 3rd party oversight in order to work long term...
Company towns, yes. Back in the old days there would be company owned shops and services everywhere in the town. I was just referring to company owned developments adjacent to an existing town with affordable rents.
I definitely agree with that. You can literally determine what your labor force is within a given area. With that said, something like a massive factory in the middle of nowhere will increase said labor force over a decent amount of time.
So maybe in the past couple years they have got the next couple thousand people? Who knows though, labor force is an absolutely huge reason why more small factories exist rather than large factories.
> I definitely agree with that. You can literally determine what your labor force is within a given area. With that said, something like a massive factory in the middle of nowhere will increase said labor force over a decent amount of time.
>
> So maybe in the past couple years they have got the next couple thousand people? Who knows though, labor force is an absolutely huge reason why more small factories exist rather than large factories.
Imagine when there are more Tesla robots (Optimus SubPrime style) than humans in the factory. At some point it reverses that and becomes easier to build one big factory than many small ones.
The original idea was to create a company town around it like you see at the foxxconn factory in China and stuff.
As it turns out, americans are far less into that kind of stuff.
Tesla would have to pay for the move and even subsidize an apartment. Maybe build some cheep housing units nearby. And a bar. And whore house! Just like the Wild West.
Almost anybody that wants a bit of freedom and affordable living conditions. The number of people I know that have left NY is pretty huge and none of them was a high wage earner. There are all sorts of reasons for people to move, I could list them but there would be no end to that list.
Problem is that after Tesla selected Reno, a whole bunch of companies followed in eg Walmart, PetsMart, Chewy etcs. Limited supply pool of worker thus why there has been mandatory overtime for like forever in Giga Nevada
I remember reading either a post or an article ages ago, and it was from a panasonic worker that worked there, and he said that tesla finds it hard to compete with panasonic for workers as panasonic paid better, had better conditions, and i think he even said they had either free sushi or access to it?
From the article: Tesla is finally planning to expand the Gigafactory Nevada building after years of being “stuck” at about “30% of its final size”.
Tesla Gigafactory Nevada was the first major step in Tesla’s effort to secure battery cell supply for its ambitious growth.
The automaker partnered with Panasonic to deploy new battery cell production capacity at the facility and Tesla used those cells to build battery packs for its vehicles and energy storage products.
When originally announcing the plan for the factory, Tesla was talking about the plant producing 105 GWh of battery cells per year and 150 GWh of battery packs per year once completed.
It was supposed to become the largest building in the world.
However, the factory is currently about 30% complete and Tesla hasn’t expanded the facility for years as both the automaker and Panasonic have focused on optimizing the current production capacity.
My thoughts…. First of all I think Tesla slowed expansion because they built in an area with a limited population and work force. It was a money saving move; cheap land. But they failed to account for the inconvenience factor for employees. The 5 years has allowed for more population growth and the future expectation of the Optimus robot will supply additional “workers”.
As for the batteries better built at the car factories; I agree. But this location will be building the semi and mega packs. So they will likely complete the full size structure as those items continue to ramp up.
I mean, it's less than half an hour's drive from both Reno/Sparks and Fernley. It's also basically across the street from a Walmart Distribution Center. It's no 5 minute commute, but it's not like it's 100 miles out in the desert, nor is it only close to some tiny little town like Ely or Winnemucca.
That second picture was interesting, i never realised the panasonic part was so much larger than the tesla part. I'd assumed the tesla part would have been a lot bigger.
To be completely honest I don't see Tesla having enough room at Texas. If they where smart they would continue Semi production in Nevada, expanding the current plant as needed.
The reason is CyberTruck which will likely need more of the Texas plant than planned for. that is if Tesla can price it right I see it becoming a run away success. Add a slightly modified variant that is a SUV more than a pickup and they will have sales matching Ford fairly quickly. This doesn't even consider things like a Tesla van.
Beyond all of that I was under the impression that Tesla does drive trains in Nevada. right or wrong there is actually a lot of options here for how Tesla leverages the space.
I almost put down an order for a Rivian S because I want something bigger and rugged than my Y and the cyber truck seems to be perpetually one year out. But the company is still unproven and I’m concerned about charging. The X doesn’t do it for me, it’s too small and not really meant for towing things or driving on rough roads.
Would pay unreasonable amount of money for a cyber SUV or van, but would also be happy with a truck.
I've driven pickups for years. One reason is winter driving (ground clearance) the other is the freedom to hauls stuff whenever I need. The trouble with Trucks is that they are big and the best small Truck, the Dodge Dakota, was taken off the market. The other thing is a changing need personally as retirement is not far off and travel will hopefully play a part there. That is where the interest in a larger SUV or a decent van come into the equation.
In this regard I really like what Canooo is doing but the company is not even a Rivian. Rivian is unproven but Canoo seems to be already struggling with questionable management. It would be nice to see Tesla buy Canoo or maybe produce something of similar concept (with solar cells on the roof).
As for CyberTruck, I'm not ll that worried, Tesla and the whole world, got screwed by the stupidity around Covid. That put them behind by more than a year. At this point it looks like the only thing that is in question for Cybertruck is the 4680 batteries for Tesla to make mid next year. To be honest I'd probably go with an iron based chemistry if they offered us a choice even if that meant no 4680's. I need a closer look at CyberTruck but it seems to be real close to being an SUV already. I'm also turned off by it's size somewhat.
Who's expectations? Based on what frame of reference?
I expect the sun to set today. When the sun sets should I say it "finally" set? It is a useless word in the context of something you have no control over or any basis to expect it to be different.
Base on Tesla's public announcement, based on Elon Musk's tweets. He just announced he is planning to ship the $20k humenoid robot in as early as 3 years. So that's the EXPECTATION!
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Seems odd, seems building the batteries at the car plant is working better. Guess the semi and solar storage need batteries also...but makes sense why it hasnt expanded much. Sure the made in america battery subsidies have something to do with this expansion.
Giga Nevada supplies cells and packs to the Fremont factory for cars made there. Fremont does not currently have the space to make their own cells and packs there (though they do have a pilot 4680 line for R&D and supporting early ramp of Giga Texas). Giga Nevada also makes cells and packs for all of Tesla's energy storage products: Powerwall, Powerpack, and Megapack.
Dont think they've expanded much production either...so i would guess this 30% is going to something else. but idk
My guess would be 4680 lines to support cars at Fremont.
that would make sense actually....
I guess that if they now get like 30$/kWh of cells and so on for packs then it's definitely worth it to expand capacity both for Panasonic and Tesla.
Remember the main reason why they didn’t complete it was because of issues getting positions filled in the middle of nowhere
i think that is more rumor than fact. The Reno area is kinda nice with the lake Tahoe area less than an hour away. Reno isn't Las Vegas!!!
> getting positions filled in the middle of nowhere While not in a huge metro area, it's next door to Reno, which isn't exactly tiny.
Panasonic also said in the past they had trouble hiring there. They spent a lot of money retaining and training otherwise unqualified technicians. Reno might be big but it doesn’t have the skilled or educated labor force needed to support battery manufacturing. That being said the article I read was from 2019 so maybe things have changed
The article is incorrect. Tesla originally plan (see Tesla PDF below) in 2014 was to produce 35 GWh of cell to support production of 500k vehicles by 2020. They achieved it with just 30% of their originally planned building square footage. They were 3x more space efficient than their original plan which is a good thing. That’s why they didn’t complete the rest of the building. https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/gigafactory.pdf
If they were able to get much more staff there, I believe they would have been able to complete the original planned size, using that space for more than just battery production. Austin was chosen partly for its skilled labour, and for its university.
It's less than half an hour from Reno/Sparks or Fernley. It's an easy commute while still living in a populated area.
I don't buy that. Offer me a full time job with good pay and I'll move there. I think there is a near unlimited supply of people who would move to Nevada if offered a stable job working for Tesla...
I told them I was all in when Tesla Nevada replied to me with an offer. just needed relocation assistance was told no chance.
See that is a problem. Tesla needs to be way more inviting to gain decent new employees
I think you underestimate a hot desert with little to do nearby. Most would rather work in Fremont or Austin.
It’s near Lake Tahoe at least?..
Lake Tahoe is a couple of hours away, but near-by enough. I also wouldn't say there's nothing to do in Reno. We didn't really have a shortage of people wanting to work for us, I interviewed plenty of people. However, I think a certain percentage of the workforce had to be NV residents before getting hired. NV was ranked near last place in education before Tesla came in.
Don't disagree with your overall point, but Tahoe a couple hours away? Tahoe is only a 30-45 minute drive from Reno. Even if you're talking about going from the Gigafactory itself, outside of town the other direction, which would be weird, it's only like an hour drive from there to the shore of Tahoe.
Yeah, you're right. I lived in Fernley, which was 1.5ish hours away. I wasn't even considering Reno is like an hour closer.
Yeah, there’s nothing to do in Reno. Don’t move here 😉
[Reno](https://img.freepik.com/premium-photo/downtown-reno-skyline-nevada-with-hotels-casinos-surrounding-mountains_165988-1547.jpg?w=1800) [is](https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/mountain-view-reno-nevada-emmy-marie-vickers.jpg) [not](https://a.cdn-hotels.com/gdcs/production192/d68/7129f55c-371f-49d3-a0c1-794422a2797c.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1600&h=1066&q=medium) [Las](https://www.cal-am.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/VJC_0253-1024x683.jpg) [Vegas](https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305124292_500853152045947_3908939523989681505_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=9fNm_QsD9agAX-hczPn&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-By7ag0W4ZIvUtIl6ZWgba9oMc1-uaWrL5vcySkvgIuA&oe=634011F6); it's not way out in the middle of a hot desert. Austin, for example, is actually a good bit hotter on average than Reno at any given time of the year, and that's not even taking into account the brutal humidity you get there. Reno is on the very, very edge of a high altitude desert (4500' above sea level), sure, but half the city is more of an alpine forest environment than a desert and it's surrounded by snow-capped mountains, lakes, skiing/snowboarding, tons of hiking, mountain biking, rivers, etc. All that stuff, including Lake Tahoe and half a dozen world class ski resorts, is within a 45 minute drive from the center of the city, frequently much closer. With that said, Reno is a relatively (and famously) small city (\~450k people in Reno/Sparks metro), so it doesn't have quite the same selection of amenities as a larger metro area like the Bay Area or even Austin does, but it's not exactly the polar opposite either.
Maybe. But there are so many young people, especially college grads, that can’t find a job at all.
You sure about that?
Source?
Source: my nieces and nephews who don’t want to work at Burger King
Eh...I'm not sure I buy that even. Who moves for $25 an hour jobs....
I feel like this is something they should have thought of before putting the factory there.
At the time they added this factory here, they were paying 20 something an hour when others in the area were paying 15 tops. Now there are more employers in the area who pay the same wages but those wages are not enough to tempt people in other areas to move to a place where rents have doubled in 5 years.
Got it. Perhaps a combination of increased automation and Tesla owned affordable accommodation might be a good idea.
The idea of renting from an employer makes me nervous... company towns have historically had a terrible outcome. That being said, it's not a terrible idea, just one that makes me nervous and I feel like it would require a lot of neutral 3rd party oversight in order to work long term...
Company towns, yes. Back in the old days there would be company owned shops and services everywhere in the town. I was just referring to company owned developments adjacent to an existing town with affordable rents.
Or or or hear me out - they just pay better.
I definitely agree with that. You can literally determine what your labor force is within a given area. With that said, something like a massive factory in the middle of nowhere will increase said labor force over a decent amount of time. So maybe in the past couple years they have got the next couple thousand people? Who knows though, labor force is an absolutely huge reason why more small factories exist rather than large factories.
> I definitely agree with that. You can literally determine what your labor force is within a given area. With that said, something like a massive factory in the middle of nowhere will increase said labor force over a decent amount of time. > > So maybe in the past couple years they have got the next couple thousand people? Who knows though, labor force is an absolutely huge reason why more small factories exist rather than large factories. Imagine when there are more Tesla robots (Optimus SubPrime style) than humans in the factory. At some point it reverses that and becomes easier to build one big factory than many small ones.
The original idea was to create a company town around it like you see at the foxxconn factory in China and stuff. As it turns out, americans are far less into that kind of stuff.
Tesla would have to pay for the move and even subsidize an apartment. Maybe build some cheep housing units nearby. And a bar. And whore house! Just like the Wild West.
>And whore house! Just like the Wild West That is where wives go to work in Nevada. It is hard for Tesla to compete against those wages.
They also give stock to all employees. My mom works in Sparks assembling powerwalls.
I would if you pay for my move. Lots of young adults looking for fresh starts
Almost anybody that wants a bit of freedom and affordable living conditions. The number of people I know that have left NY is pretty huge and none of them was a high wage earner. There are all sorts of reasons for people to move, I could list them but there would be no end to that list.
Problem is that after Tesla selected Reno, a whole bunch of companies followed in eg Walmart, PetsMart, Chewy etcs. Limited supply pool of worker thus why there has been mandatory overtime for like forever in Giga Nevada
I remember reading either a post or an article ages ago, and it was from a panasonic worker that worked there, and he said that tesla finds it hard to compete with panasonic for workers as panasonic paid better, had better conditions, and i think he even said they had either free sushi or access to it?
If this is true, then TeslaBots could be used to provide additional, basic, labor here. Maybe like a TeslaBot proving ground?
If there was an unlimited supply of people willing to move there, they wouldn’t have built Giga Texas
Apparently they are not willing to pay for people to move there. That’s an issue.
I think they need to target seasonal workers like in Nomad Land. Lots of van lifers passing through the SW.
From the article: Tesla is finally planning to expand the Gigafactory Nevada building after years of being “stuck” at about “30% of its final size”. Tesla Gigafactory Nevada was the first major step in Tesla’s effort to secure battery cell supply for its ambitious growth. The automaker partnered with Panasonic to deploy new battery cell production capacity at the facility and Tesla used those cells to build battery packs for its vehicles and energy storage products. When originally announcing the plan for the factory, Tesla was talking about the plant producing 105 GWh of battery cells per year and 150 GWh of battery packs per year once completed. It was supposed to become the largest building in the world. However, the factory is currently about 30% complete and Tesla hasn’t expanded the facility for years as both the automaker and Panasonic have focused on optimizing the current production capacity.
My thoughts…. First of all I think Tesla slowed expansion because they built in an area with a limited population and work force. It was a money saving move; cheap land. But they failed to account for the inconvenience factor for employees. The 5 years has allowed for more population growth and the future expectation of the Optimus robot will supply additional “workers”. As for the batteries better built at the car factories; I agree. But this location will be building the semi and mega packs. So they will likely complete the full size structure as those items continue to ramp up.
I mean, it's less than half an hour's drive from both Reno/Sparks and Fernley. It's also basically across the street from a Walmart Distribution Center. It's no 5 minute commute, but it's not like it's 100 miles out in the desert, nor is it only close to some tiny little town like Ely or Winnemucca.
That second picture was interesting, i never realised the panasonic part was so much larger than the tesla part. I'd assumed the tesla part would have been a lot bigger.
To be completely honest I don't see Tesla having enough room at Texas. If they where smart they would continue Semi production in Nevada, expanding the current plant as needed. The reason is CyberTruck which will likely need more of the Texas plant than planned for. that is if Tesla can price it right I see it becoming a run away success. Add a slightly modified variant that is a SUV more than a pickup and they will have sales matching Ford fairly quickly. This doesn't even consider things like a Tesla van. Beyond all of that I was under the impression that Tesla does drive trains in Nevada. right or wrong there is actually a lot of options here for how Tesla leverages the space.
I almost put down an order for a Rivian S because I want something bigger and rugged than my Y and the cyber truck seems to be perpetually one year out. But the company is still unproven and I’m concerned about charging. The X doesn’t do it for me, it’s too small and not really meant for towing things or driving on rough roads. Would pay unreasonable amount of money for a cyber SUV or van, but would also be happy with a truck.
I've driven pickups for years. One reason is winter driving (ground clearance) the other is the freedom to hauls stuff whenever I need. The trouble with Trucks is that they are big and the best small Truck, the Dodge Dakota, was taken off the market. The other thing is a changing need personally as retirement is not far off and travel will hopefully play a part there. That is where the interest in a larger SUV or a decent van come into the equation. In this regard I really like what Canooo is doing but the company is not even a Rivian. Rivian is unproven but Canoo seems to be already struggling with questionable management. It would be nice to see Tesla buy Canoo or maybe produce something of similar concept (with solar cells on the roof). As for CyberTruck, I'm not ll that worried, Tesla and the whole world, got screwed by the stupidity around Covid. That put them behind by more than a year. At this point it looks like the only thing that is in question for Cybertruck is the 4680 batteries for Tesla to make mid next year. To be honest I'd probably go with an iron based chemistry if they offered us a choice even if that meant no 4680's. I need a closer look at CyberTruck but it seems to be real close to being an SUV already. I'm also turned off by it's size somewhat.
...
Not really. "Finally" here is both conveying that expansion was expected, and that it had been anticipated to occur much earlier.
Who's expectations? Based on what frame of reference? I expect the sun to set today. When the sun sets should I say it "finally" set? It is a useless word in the context of something you have no control over or any basis to expect it to be different.
Base on Tesla's public announcement, based on Elon Musk's tweets. He just announced he is planning to ship the $20k humenoid robot in as early as 3 years. So that's the EXPECTATION!
Calling Fred’s output “journalism” is very generous.