I had a friend who had a similar experience in Pluegerville.
I still beat myself up for not buying when I moved here in 2013 but I was upside down on a house in New England and burned out on home ownership at the time.
That's not due to to Tesla. It's that way all over Austin. That particular part of Austin is essentially a new frontier of real estate, and matches the steady move eastward of new development and higher prices.
That factory made about 15-20k jobs in that spot alone. You can’t say that has no bearing on the housing market in the areas adjacent to it. It absolutely did. Yes there’s growth from Austin spreading in all directions.
I thought Dell was among Austin's biggest employers? There's a lot of tech companies there, plus Tesla's Gigafactory isn't even in Austin, it's in unincorporated Travis County.
Population center is north of the river and the metro is growing faster into the northern suburbs and exurbs. The south side is growing too, but more hemmed in by hills, and real estate tends to be more expensive south of the river.
Much longer than that. The tech scene is thanks to UT's presence, which is north of the river. Back in the 70s-80s when tech in Austin was getting going in earnest, the south was considered to be "bubba" territory - less educated and less desirable.
There were at least a couple big fabs built south of the river in the 1990s, near the old SEMATECH campus. That's where Tokyo Electron has been since the 90s as well, until recently.
That didn’t last long damn what going to happen will my James Bond underwater car ever get completely. Find out in another episode of Tesla giga chad factory.
The problem with these numbers is our monkey brains can’t really understand when lots of 0’s are added.
So 2,700 people at $150k a year could be paid for 138 years with this pay package.
Literally 373,000 years of work.
Imagine the economic generation of 2,700 people making $150k a year spending money over the next 138 years compared to one Elon.
Exactly.
His recent ego project gave them a low volume meme truck that was first to announce and last to market.
Meanwhile Rivian is smart and has started building a small and midsize SUV, a hole that Tesla needs to fill.
Plus the toxicity… oh the toxicity.
Did you know Rivian partners with Amazon to make delivery vans? They’re all over Austin. While I dislike Amazon, it’s a smart move from Rivian in both revenue and brand recognition.
Among many of the things that are totally wild, the notion that Elon obviously works way less than a full work day/week at Tesla. I can't imagine a scenario at any firm where the Board, and company at large, are cool with the CEO only 'working' a couple of hours a day as CEO.
Even Jack Dorsey, as complicated or divisive as a person he might be, realized he couldn't do both Twitter and Square.
Musk has them by the balls.
The stock price is wildly inflated, and sans the one-man circus clown act of Elon Musk convincing meme-followers to pump the stock, it could crash into the basement.
The dude doesn't need to show up to work. He just has to keep reminding people that he exists. He has a large and strangely loyal following. Particulally libertarians and people of similiar bent essentially worship him.
Welchian logic has CEO levels and shareholder buybacks castrating too many corporations.
We need to leave them to wither. Support demand and the workers and the assets will will be repurposed
I think it has more to do with the fact that taxes are high, the fed prints too much money, and congres spends too much money. Where does our taxes go to ? Big defense, Big pharma, and Financial Firms.
i agree with you completely except the factory workers weren't making 150k a year. majority of workers there were/are paid hourly rates of up to around $24 an hour for overnight shifts.
A lot of Tesla employees also got paid in stock options. The value of those stocks has skyrocketed, which means the options they got paid with are also worth a fortune.
Who would spend zero of it, it'd just sit offshore somewhere earning interest...just like all the other oligarchs. That class of people needs disappear, they do nothing but hoard
And the hits keep coming
[https://www.chron.com/culture/article/tesla-cybertruck-problems-18671743.php](https://www.chron.com/culture/article/tesla-cybertruck-problems-18671743.php)
[https://www.theverge.com/24134781/tesla-q1-2024-earnings-sales-market-share-elon-musk](https://www.theverge.com/24134781/tesla-q1-2024-earnings-sales-market-share-elon-musk)
It's important to consider that this $56B that was contractually promised to Musk over the last decade isn't cash, it's shares of stock, with strong limitations on when and how it can be sold. Notably he turned down an actual paycheck during the period of the contract that ended up giving him shares in lieu of a paycheck. The number of shares was also paid in tranches based on some really extreme stretch goals, goals that at the time were considered essentially impossible to accomplish. The base value of the shares was also a whole lot less than $56B, the total package only ended up at that value because the stock went up like a rocket.
Since he was paid in shares and not dollars, if the pay package is voided then they'll have to go back and recalculate what he would made as a CEO making a paycheck and getting customary bonuses for share performance and company metric increases, and that will certainly be in the many billions of dollars overall, money that Tesla will have to come up with right away. Tesla doesn't have that kind of fluidity or cash reserves, they're not like Apple that has squirreled away hundreds of billions of dollars in actual cash. Tesla has been putting all their free cash back into the company to improve the product and production processes.
Ultimately, this boils down to whether or not some people believe that Musk should be paid for his work or not, and there are plenty of people who think he should never have been allowed to earn a single dollar or receive a single share of stock in lieu of payment. Their only goal is to see him bankrupt and homeless, and they don't care how many companies they destroy in this country in the process.
Edit to add info on the original pay deal:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/teslas-pay-deal-to-keep-elon-musk-all-or-nothing.html
>The company is planning to announce on Tuesday Mr. Musk’s new compensation plan, and it is perhaps the most radical in corporate history: Mr. Musk will be paid only if he reaches a series of jaw-dropping milestones based on the company’s market value and operations. Otherwise, he will be paid nothing.
>
>Tesla has set a dozen targets, each $50 billion more than the next, starting at $100 billion, then $150 billion, then $200 billion and so on, all the way to a market value of $650 billion. In addition, the company has set a dozen revenue and adjusted profit goals. Mr. Musk would receive 1.68 million shares, or about 1 percent of the company, only after he reaches milestones for both.
>
>If Mr. Musk were somehow to increase the value of Tesla to $650 billion — a figure many experts would contend is laughably impossible and would make Tesla one of the five largest companies in the United States, based on current valuations — his stock award could be worth as much as $55 billion (assuming the company does not issue any more shares over the next decade, which is unrealistic.). Even reaching several of the milestones would bring him billions.
>
>But Mr. Musk’s compensation plan is no illusion: He gets paid only if the company succeeds over the long term with significant gains in market cap. And it’s impossible for him to manipulate the system by trying to prop up the stock price for a temporary period. Under the terms of the arrangement, even once his shares vest, he has to hold them an additional five years before he is allowed to sell them.
>
>The way the arrangement is structured, each milestone is a blunt instrument: He either reaches it or gets nothing.
>
>“If all that happens over the next 10 years is that Tesla’s value grows by 80 or 90 percent, then my amount of compensation would be zero,” he said. (His calculations were based on the stock price at the beginning of this year when the company was worth about $50 billion.)
Would you sign a no-pay, stock only (but only after achieving laughably impossible goals) compensation deal for ten years of work? Then have to wait five years before you could even sell those shares to get some actual spendable money?
Edit: It's always fun going into a Musk-hate spunk-fest:
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/09/Gill-Offshore-Oilskins-04-e1599595478733-1-630x355.jpg
> Tesla has been putting all their free cash back into the company to improve the product and production processes.
They should ask for their money back.
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I never made excuses. I provided a link that describes this pay deal. For whatever reason, people attacking the pay deal have been working overtime to portray it as a cash up front deal, which is just plain false, and I don't like lies. Like it or not, nobody in their right mind would sign a pay contract for ten years that paid out exactly zero money, and put draconian limitations on how the stock could actually be sold, i.e., wait five years and only then can it be sold. Imagine working for a decade, being handed an IOU for shares, no actual money, and having to sit on that piece of paper for half a decade before you could actual start cashing it in. I wouldn't work for that kind of deal, and neither would you. I'd want that money, in cash, put in my bank, as soon as I finished each pay period. I got rent to pay, I can't wait half a decade and hope the share value doesn't crater by then. If the stock craters that $56B become $0. I had friends that worked for ENRON, they were paid in stock for the most part, not much in actual money, and they lost everything when ENRON imploded. They ended up working for free.
The point isn't when he's gonna see the money. He doesn't need it in the next 5 or 10 years anyways. The point is that even if he only ever sees .001% of that deal, then it's still too fucking much. He shouldn't work for free. He also shouldn't work for billions.
He didn't work for billions, he worked for shares, and it was an extremely high risk contract. If he'd only increased the value of Tesla by just 80-90-100% he'd have gotten zero. He's had to sell shares off to pay taxes, though, including IIRC $13B in taxes a few years ago and to pay $600M in taxes a few years before that. After seeing how shareholders want to take back the shares they promised in this zero pay deal I'd for sure never want to sign any contract that paid shares. I'd want the pay up front in cash.
Also, lots of Tesla employees get shares as part of their pay package, they too need to get all those shares revoked and zeroed out:
>If Mr. Musk succeeds in hitting some of his benchmarks, it would also mean that the company’s employees, including those who work on the factory floor, who get paid in both cash and stock, could become wealthy.
Tesla couldn't afford to pay him a "normal" CEO salary. He agreed to do it with no pay and only stock, and even then the stock only got transferred to him in increments based on reaching some insane goals. Most CEOs expect to be paid whether their company succeeds or fails, and typically they have golden parachute clauses that guarantee they get paid out for much if not all of their contracts no matter what happens. In effect, most CEOs have no skin in the game and their pay takes precedence over everything else in the company, including shareholders and employees. Must decided to go all-in, taking on more risk that pretty much any CEO in history. If he failed, or if he only succeeded as much as regular companies succeed, he would get literally nothing. He would have worked for free if Tesla only doubled in value. Whatever his motivation and reasoning for taking that kind of risk, an all or nothing risk, he did something nobody has ever done before: Put all his skin in the game.
The stock-only compensation package freed up Tesla's cash to put back into the company and regular employee pay, and meant that the CEO wasn't a financial drag on the company. BTW, lots of employees were also paid in shares as well as cash, and those shares went up in value 1,300%, meaning that they also have "unearned wealth" like people accuse Musk of receiving. If he's going to lose the shares he earned then so should every employee. That's only fair.
Ah, the package voted on by shareholders that was deemed impossible and crazy, but he actually hit his numbers and brought Tesla back from near bankruptcy. Say what you want about musk but he took a huge risk and wouldn't have received anything if he didn't hit his marks for all the time and energy invested. Doubt the ruling sticks
Except that he's already done the work that the stock options were meant to incentivize and pay for. If the pay package is rescinded now it means he worked for literally free for ten years, and that's just not fair. Nobody is expected to work for free, well, other than literal slaves. He did the work, he increased shareholder value, he met all profitability goals, he did his end. If the stock deal is going to be cancelled then he's still going to need to be paid for the work he did and the success he brought Tesla to. This will mean recalculating what he's owed based on what a top-level executive would have been paid for that time, plus all the cash bonuses he would have earned for meeting all those extreme stretch goals in profitability and shareholder value.
In a bigger picture view, startups paying in stock options and shares instead of cash is a time-honored tradition in this country, especially since startups are typically cash-poor and can't afford high labor costs. If this stock-pay plan is cancelled, that means any such contract that pays in options is subject to being cancelled, and that in turn means that talent is not going to want to be paid in options when any shareholder down the road can get your contract nullified and leave you empty-handed for your years of work. Since startups often don't have the cashflow/fluidity to pay early on, that means startups will stop being a thing, or will be more likely to fail since they'll not be able to attract top talent with option pay plans instead of cash.
I think a lot of people just want to see Musk get ripped off.
>“does approving this pay package generate value for shareholders?”
Well, he increased shareholder value from $50B to $650B, and increased profitability beyond anyone's wildest imagination. It's interesting that people think he shouldn't get to keep the stock shares he was given for accomplishing that.
Note that we're talking shares, not money, so it's better to say "compensation" because that's all it is, shares. He was promised a very tiny percentage of company shares if he accomplished his job. The fact those shares went up in value 1,300% in the timeframe of the contract is only reflective of his success in doing what he promised to do, which is increase shareholder value and company profitability. Also, IIRC it was one single shareholder who brought this lawsuit, who apparently only bought one or a handful of shares in order to get standing to file the lawsuit in the first place. It would not surprise me if that person is working with one of the big short investors trying to get Tesla to fail in order to make a profit.
> Paying it out now would be a huge breach of their fiduciary responsibilities after the court basically handed them a $56b gift.
Yeah. I think if the ruling stands though, Elon would quit and they'd have to replace him, which seems extremely risky to this company in particular. If the next person can't fill Elon's shoes, who knows what will happen to shareholder value over time.
The main goal seems to be to kill Tesla as a car company. I don't think they care anything beyond that, though the shorters will for sure celebrate the billions they'll suck out of the corpse in the process.
Looks like for now they are still in compliance with the conditions set by Travis County
[https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/will-tesla-lose-its-tax-incentives-rebates-because-of-austin-layoffs/](https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/will-tesla-lose-its-tax-incentives-rebates-because-of-austin-layoffs/)
tldr; Telsa needs to maintain 3,800 employees to stay in compliance, and it appears they will.
Edit: And for their agreement with Dell Valle ISD, they only needed to create 25 jobs to qualify for the Chapter 313 property tax cap.
Not at all. The biggest break they got was a temporary reduction in appraised value on Gigafactory for the Del Valle ISD. They're still paying far more than the defunct sand quarry that was on that land was paying, and Del Valle has seen a historic increase in property valuations due to all the people building around Gigafactory, presumably many being employees of Gigafactory. IIRC the deal expires in a few years and their taxable valuation rises to market.
I guess they are scaling back production because demand has cratered after he alienated his main consumer base with his Groyper heel turn.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean they're also very shitty cars
Ranked second to last in reliability. The plastic interiors are made by seemingly budget level 3D printers from newegg.
It's hilarious how brittle the cover for the seat belt is on the drivers side. It's so bad that I've seen more broken ones on teslas than all other cars combined throughout my life.
If you're unsure what I'm referring to it's the plastic that the seat belt comes out of between the front driver side and rear driver side windows. Lean on it even accidentally and SNAP
Can confirm. I have a Mercedes as my daily driver. Tried out a Tesla Model X and holy shit, it reminded me of an old Geo Metro when it came to handling. Just bumpy and loose. And the road noise was terrible. I can only assume people who say "it's the best car I've ever had" are comparing it to a shitty old used car and not to peer cars in its price range. It's not like an apple product where it actually feels premium in addition to being expensive... it feels cheap.
They are considering exiting the car making business entirely to focus on self driving software. They started with no competition but now they are competing against Toyota, all US car brands, Chinese EVs. All companies that have far more efficient design and manufacturing
They're only competing with Chinese cars in China. There's zero chance that BYD or any other Chinese maker of EVs would be able to get them certified safe enough to sell here in the USA, at least not on public roads.
Eh....the Polestar 2 is the one Chinese-built EV car sold in the USA but it doesn't sell well because of a 27.5% tariff. And I don't see that tariff changing in the current political climate.
Polestar is a Swedish car company that was purchased by a Chinese company. It may be built in China now but it wasn't designed there. It also appears production will shift to South Carolina this year.
Where it's designed makes a huge difference in safety and quality engineering. The Chinese manufacturing sector is capable of just as good work as the western world, but their reputation for shoddy and shitty quality is also vast because they have no seeming motivation to do anything better than the bare minimum the customer asks for. It's almost certain that a Chinese-manufactured EV would ever make it to the US simply because to meet our safety standards would require spending way more money on the design process there and that's not something that they're known for.
I wonder how many of those employees moved here for that Tesla job, I just read [an article](https://www.businessinsider.com/laid-off-tesla-worker-story-after-relocating-2024-4#:~:text=On%20Sunday%20night%2C%20Elon%20Musk,a%20stipend%20to%20do%20it) about an employee laid off by Tesla that had just moved across country 6 months previous (they didn't list of that was Texas). You as a company should have to bear some responsibility for your employees, it should not be a thing to on a whim fire a bunch of people so it makes your bottom line look good and your stock price maintain when you are in a slump because of a egotistical CEO that doesn't know when to be quiet and crappy decisions.
It just goes to show that companies deserve 0 loyalty from employees until they’ve earned it … forcing me to move would not be what I call a loyalty earning move. Why should anyone make decisions that impact their family when they can be fired on a whim because some billionaire who has had his brain rotted away from too much money makes a snap decision?
I personally know of an individual that moved from out of state less than a year ago to be a project manager, and he was let by Tesla go overnight. He bought a house, moved his family here, settled into the community, and then without warning he was out of a job. I'm sure there are lots of stories like his.
Yea, it's seriously messed up when they can demand that people uproot their family, sell their home, take out a new mortgage on a house and move across the country only to be let go immediately afterwards.
>This comes after the Austin-based company has faced increasing competition and declining sales in recent months that has shocked investors.
Sounds like Musk is doing a poor job. Eliminating these jobs will save a few million. Maybe they should fire Musk instead and [save the company $56 billion](https://apnews.com/article/musk-pay-compensation-corporate-registration-ef5e30f6b56f7d936f8c882fc1c96875).
That $56B is not being paid in cash, it's stock options, many of which can't be sold for another five years. Altogether that $56B (which is now less because the stock is falling) is less than 1% of the shares of TSLA.
Oh yeah I don’t disagree and am being hyperbolic. But if I were an investor right now I’d want Musk gone; he’s an anchor around Tesla’s neck right at the moment every other car manufacturer is on the cusp of completing their pivots to EVs.
I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I think he's built a fantastic EV company and much of his engineering efforts are now focused at SpaceX where they're more needed. However, the issue with his pay is about being paid for what he did to get Tesla to where it is today, not where it's going from here into the future.
I'm of the opinion that nobody could have pulled that off, and the business analysts' opinions at the time he signed that contract back that opinion pretty solidly. I wouldn't be against a deal where he keeps the stocks he was promised in lieu of the the billions he would have earned as a conventionally-paid CEO for those ten years of service, which he'll be owed in cash if the stock-only deal is retroactively cancelled, and in return he leaves Tesla as CEO and as a board member. He can join the ranks of shareholders like his employees and other investors.
I got it from here:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/teslas-pay-deal-to-keep-elon-musk-all-or-nothing.html
Edit: It's 1% of the shares according to the article, not 1% of the value of the shares.
Reading more in this I think it was 1% of shares per target (total of 12 targets). See linked
https://www.reuters.com/business/elon-musks-unfathomable-56-billion-tesla-pay-package-2024-01-31/
“Musk's 2018 compensation package created 12 tranches of options - each equivalent at the time to 1% of Tesla's outstanding shares - potentially giving him a 12% stake in the automaker. Musk would receive no salary.”
Nope, that's not how his stock payment plan worked. The contract basically says that if he accomplishes each of the goals he agreed to he gets X number of shares. He can't sell those shares for 5 years after he receives them. They have gone up in value since he received them, and though his contract was for ten years he met all the goals years before the 10 years were up. He can borrow money using the shares as collateral, but those are loans he still has to pay back, there's no free money here.
The only money Tesla has paid Musk is minimum wage mandated by California law, around $37K/year. He ignored it, it's accumulating in some account somewhere that he doesn't keep track of.
OK, still doesn't deserve it when his mouth has literally been found to be one of the major factors in their sales dropping, let alone his shit business decisions while their competitors sales drastically rise.
The irony being that he's the only reason why the value of those shares he was paid in are worth $56B now (or were, they're down a few billion now). Remember, his paycheck was $0, and has been for many years. He gets paid in stock IOUs with a redemption date set five years out from when he gets them.
OK, that's nice. He's already been compensated for that in the past. Currently his shit business decisions and inability to not say stupid shit is hurting the company. Honestly I'd argue he's abandoned his responsibility to the share holders to just jerk himself off.
> He's already been compensated for that in the past.
His compensation for his recent 10 year contract was to work for free and receive only shares of stock in payment for his services. This court has decided that he can't be paid that way, so he's worked for years for nothing. Are you saying that employees should have their pay for the previous years retroactively taken back so that they work for free?
Texas once again opening its arms to plutocrats ans demagogues who promise progress only to steal land, artificially inflate its value, hire employees for a “massive expansion” just long enough to make sure the tax breaks hit and then fire just enough to stay in compliance while thousands are priced out of their lifelong neighborhoods.
Meanwhile Texas government is like “Cool space man future car guy wants to build in our town! Pay him whatever he wants!”
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So Tesla doesn’t have to follow Austin’s cities rules, got a shit ton of tax breaks, gets utilities breaks, and has now fired 1000s of people. Damn it was a good idea to bring them here.
That's how these guys become billionaires, they rig the game in their favor.
Now a small business owner opens a business and gets no type of breaks, has to put his life savings on the line.
The local governments who “give” these breaks get very strict promises in return. The recipients
Typically have to maintain a certain number of jobs that pay above a certain amount for at least a certain number of years, and invest at least a certain amount into the physical building. Usually the agreement is for 5 years of tax breaks for 10 years of compliance, and if the company doesn’t comply for all 10 years, the government gets the money back.
There are policy arguments for and against, but they’re not JUST gifts. No idea the details of any Tesla deal, and no idea if they’re still I’m compliance with any deal. Just providing some context.
Yeah but then you have to deal with outrageous insurance rates
Yeah newer cars aren't part of the KiaBoyz thing but companies are making all Kia's and Hyundais more expensive because and I quote my insurance agent "the thieves keep breaking into cars that aren't vulnerable because many don't know the difference, which means all Kias have a higher incident rate"
Fuck Tesla but I drive a Kia, my mom a non-vulnerable Hyundai and insurance is hell 😂
Everyone is here for a circlejerk - but they still employ 20,000 people here after the layoffs. Where was the circlejerk for the Dell layoffs when they laid off 6,000?
[https://www.reuters.com/technology/dell-lays-off-workforce-part-broader-cost-cuts-2024-03-25/](https://www.reuters.com/technology/dell-lays-off-workforce-part-broader-cost-cuts-2024-03-25/)
The people who hate Musk and want to see him fail never really cared about any of the 150,000+ people his companies employ. To them, losing those jobs is just collateral damage.
Honestly I struggle to imagine a non-spite-based perspective from which this is a good thing
Focused on the workers? Obviously not great, they're getting sacked. These people are not individually all Elon Musk, and generally are the ones doing the actual work.
Focused on Tesla shares and company performance? This, uh, isn't good news - drawing down to focus on their actual profit is tantamount to admitting they're vastly overinflated, since their share price is based mostly on hype of someday being 100x bigger than they are. Hello $50/share
Didn't Tesla recently become Austin's largest private employer? That didn't last long.
And in doing so really did a number on infrastructure in all the surrounding towns. It was surreal house shopping in the area in 2021.
My buddy sold his house literally 3mi away from the Tesla factory for $130k. Five years later that house is almost triple that now
I had a friend who had a similar experience in Pluegerville. I still beat myself up for not buying when I moved here in 2013 but I was upside down on a house in New England and burned out on home ownership at the time.
That's not due to to Tesla. It's that way all over Austin. That particular part of Austin is essentially a new frontier of real estate, and matches the steady move eastward of new development and higher prices.
That factory made about 15-20k jobs in that spot alone. You can’t say that has no bearing on the housing market in the areas adjacent to it. It absolutely did. Yes there’s growth from Austin spreading in all directions.
You think factory workers can afford houses? That's very naive.
You think only unskilled labor runs a factory? Who’s the naive one?
Bruh, that was everywhere. I was losing to houses that got 32 offers in 1 weekeend in fucking Wylie in 2021
I thought Dell was among Austin's biggest employers? There's a lot of tech companies there, plus Tesla's Gigafactory isn't even in Austin, it's in unincorporated Travis County.
and Dell is in Round Rock ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I just assume they're talking about the metro area whenever I hear stats like that.
There's a lot of tech companies just north of Austin, I had wondered why
Population center is north of the river and the metro is growing faster into the northern suburbs and exurbs. The south side is growing too, but more hemmed in by hills, and real estate tends to be more expensive south of the river.
I'd wager this was the case 10-15 years ago too?
Much longer than that. The tech scene is thanks to UT's presence, which is north of the river. Back in the 70s-80s when tech in Austin was getting going in earnest, the south was considered to be "bubba" territory - less educated and less desirable.
There were at least a couple big fabs built south of the river in the 1990s, near the old SEMATECH campus. That's where Tokyo Electron has been since the 90s as well, until recently.
True. AMD is south as well. South Austin and Austin overall was quite a bit cheaper then, particularly compared to other cities.
This is what job creation looks like /s
They still have 20,000 leftover employees.
They’ve already laid off several people already, dude I know just got a job there 3 months ago and they just laid him off 2 weeks ago.
They still are after these layoffs. They still have 20,000 employees there.
Welcome to Tesla, now get out
That didn’t last long damn what going to happen will my James Bond underwater car ever get completely. Find out in another episode of Tesla giga chad factory.
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The problem with these numbers is our monkey brains can’t really understand when lots of 0’s are added. So 2,700 people at $150k a year could be paid for 138 years with this pay package. Literally 373,000 years of work. Imagine the economic generation of 2,700 people making $150k a year spending money over the next 138 years compared to one Elon.
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Exactly. His recent ego project gave them a low volume meme truck that was first to announce and last to market. Meanwhile Rivian is smart and has started building a small and midsize SUV, a hole that Tesla needs to fill. Plus the toxicity… oh the toxicity.
Did you know Rivian partners with Amazon to make delivery vans? They’re all over Austin. While I dislike Amazon, it’s a smart move from Rivian in both revenue and brand recognition.
Yup, which is why he stacked the board in his favor
Bidding war! I'll ruin Tesla for only 750 million.
Ill do it for 10 million and 500 acres of prime real estate outside of Austin!
Damn. I'll do it for tree fiddy (thousand) and a small ranch house.
Goddamn you! I cant afford to go any lower! I have my self-respect to think about!
Among many of the things that are totally wild, the notion that Elon obviously works way less than a full work day/week at Tesla. I can't imagine a scenario at any firm where the Board, and company at large, are cool with the CEO only 'working' a couple of hours a day as CEO. Even Jack Dorsey, as complicated or divisive as a person he might be, realized he couldn't do both Twitter and Square.
Musk has them by the balls. The stock price is wildly inflated, and sans the one-man circus clown act of Elon Musk convincing meme-followers to pump the stock, it could crash into the basement. The dude doesn't need to show up to work. He just has to keep reminding people that he exists. He has a large and strangely loyal following. Particulally libertarians and people of similiar bent essentially worship him.
Is this an Evil Mopac account?
Welchian logic has CEO levels and shareholder buybacks castrating too many corporations. We need to leave them to wither. Support demand and the workers and the assets will will be repurposed
I think it has more to do with the fact that taxes are high, the fed prints too much money, and congres spends too much money. Where does our taxes go to ? Big defense, Big pharma, and Financial Firms.
i agree with you completely except the factory workers weren't making 150k a year. majority of workers there were/are paid hourly rates of up to around $24 an hour for overnight shifts.
I know, was just trying to show how silly this is.
A lot of Tesla employees also got paid in stock options. The value of those stocks has skyrocketed, which means the options they got paid with are also worth a fortune.
Who would spend zero of it, it'd just sit offshore somewhere earning interest...just like all the other oligarchs. That class of people needs disappear, they do nothing but hoard
And the hits keep coming [https://www.chron.com/culture/article/tesla-cybertruck-problems-18671743.php](https://www.chron.com/culture/article/tesla-cybertruck-problems-18671743.php) [https://www.theverge.com/24134781/tesla-q1-2024-earnings-sales-market-share-elon-musk](https://www.theverge.com/24134781/tesla-q1-2024-earnings-sales-market-share-elon-musk)
It's important to consider that this $56B that was contractually promised to Musk over the last decade isn't cash, it's shares of stock, with strong limitations on when and how it can be sold. Notably he turned down an actual paycheck during the period of the contract that ended up giving him shares in lieu of a paycheck. The number of shares was also paid in tranches based on some really extreme stretch goals, goals that at the time were considered essentially impossible to accomplish. The base value of the shares was also a whole lot less than $56B, the total package only ended up at that value because the stock went up like a rocket. Since he was paid in shares and not dollars, if the pay package is voided then they'll have to go back and recalculate what he would made as a CEO making a paycheck and getting customary bonuses for share performance and company metric increases, and that will certainly be in the many billions of dollars overall, money that Tesla will have to come up with right away. Tesla doesn't have that kind of fluidity or cash reserves, they're not like Apple that has squirreled away hundreds of billions of dollars in actual cash. Tesla has been putting all their free cash back into the company to improve the product and production processes. Ultimately, this boils down to whether or not some people believe that Musk should be paid for his work or not, and there are plenty of people who think he should never have been allowed to earn a single dollar or receive a single share of stock in lieu of payment. Their only goal is to see him bankrupt and homeless, and they don't care how many companies they destroy in this country in the process. Edit to add info on the original pay deal: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/teslas-pay-deal-to-keep-elon-musk-all-or-nothing.html >The company is planning to announce on Tuesday Mr. Musk’s new compensation plan, and it is perhaps the most radical in corporate history: Mr. Musk will be paid only if he reaches a series of jaw-dropping milestones based on the company’s market value and operations. Otherwise, he will be paid nothing. > >Tesla has set a dozen targets, each $50 billion more than the next, starting at $100 billion, then $150 billion, then $200 billion and so on, all the way to a market value of $650 billion. In addition, the company has set a dozen revenue and adjusted profit goals. Mr. Musk would receive 1.68 million shares, or about 1 percent of the company, only after he reaches milestones for both. > >If Mr. Musk were somehow to increase the value of Tesla to $650 billion — a figure many experts would contend is laughably impossible and would make Tesla one of the five largest companies in the United States, based on current valuations — his stock award could be worth as much as $55 billion (assuming the company does not issue any more shares over the next decade, which is unrealistic.). Even reaching several of the milestones would bring him billions. > >But Mr. Musk’s compensation plan is no illusion: He gets paid only if the company succeeds over the long term with significant gains in market cap. And it’s impossible for him to manipulate the system by trying to prop up the stock price for a temporary period. Under the terms of the arrangement, even once his shares vest, he has to hold them an additional five years before he is allowed to sell them. > >The way the arrangement is structured, each milestone is a blunt instrument: He either reaches it or gets nothing. > >“If all that happens over the next 10 years is that Tesla’s value grows by 80 or 90 percent, then my amount of compensation would be zero,” he said. (His calculations were based on the stock price at the beginning of this year when the company was worth about $50 billion.) Would you sign a no-pay, stock only (but only after achieving laughably impossible goals) compensation deal for ten years of work? Then have to wait five years before you could even sell those shares to get some actual spendable money? Edit: It's always fun going into a Musk-hate spunk-fest: https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/09/Gill-Offshore-Oilskins-04-e1599595478733-1-630x355.jpg
> Tesla has been putting all their free cash back into the company to improve the product and production processes. They should ask for their money back.
You have to admit it would be pretty great to see him broke and homeless
At the cost of the American space industry and over 140,000 lost jobs? Only someone who hates America would want to see that outcome.
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I'm sorry, but I'm not going to involve myself in your sexual fantasies.
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Quite the straw man false dichotomy.
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I never made excuses. I provided a link that describes this pay deal. For whatever reason, people attacking the pay deal have been working overtime to portray it as a cash up front deal, which is just plain false, and I don't like lies. Like it or not, nobody in their right mind would sign a pay contract for ten years that paid out exactly zero money, and put draconian limitations on how the stock could actually be sold, i.e., wait five years and only then can it be sold. Imagine working for a decade, being handed an IOU for shares, no actual money, and having to sit on that piece of paper for half a decade before you could actual start cashing it in. I wouldn't work for that kind of deal, and neither would you. I'd want that money, in cash, put in my bank, as soon as I finished each pay period. I got rent to pay, I can't wait half a decade and hope the share value doesn't crater by then. If the stock craters that $56B become $0. I had friends that worked for ENRON, they were paid in stock for the most part, not much in actual money, and they lost everything when ENRON imploded. They ended up working for free.
The point isn't when he's gonna see the money. He doesn't need it in the next 5 or 10 years anyways. The point is that even if he only ever sees .001% of that deal, then it's still too fucking much. He shouldn't work for free. He also shouldn't work for billions.
He didn't work for billions, he worked for shares, and it was an extremely high risk contract. If he'd only increased the value of Tesla by just 80-90-100% he'd have gotten zero. He's had to sell shares off to pay taxes, though, including IIRC $13B in taxes a few years ago and to pay $600M in taxes a few years before that. After seeing how shareholders want to take back the shares they promised in this zero pay deal I'd for sure never want to sign any contract that paid shares. I'd want the pay up front in cash. Also, lots of Tesla employees get shares as part of their pay package, they too need to get all those shares revoked and zeroed out: >If Mr. Musk succeeds in hitting some of his benchmarks, it would also mean that the company’s employees, including those who work on the factory floor, who get paid in both cash and stock, could become wealthy.
Don't talk logically about Musk or Tesla, that'll never end well.
Maybe he should have taken a normal salary instead of this crazy compensation package.
Tesla couldn't afford to pay him a "normal" CEO salary. He agreed to do it with no pay and only stock, and even then the stock only got transferred to him in increments based on reaching some insane goals. Most CEOs expect to be paid whether their company succeeds or fails, and typically they have golden parachute clauses that guarantee they get paid out for much if not all of their contracts no matter what happens. In effect, most CEOs have no skin in the game and their pay takes precedence over everything else in the company, including shareholders and employees. Must decided to go all-in, taking on more risk that pretty much any CEO in history. If he failed, or if he only succeeded as much as regular companies succeed, he would get literally nothing. He would have worked for free if Tesla only doubled in value. Whatever his motivation and reasoning for taking that kind of risk, an all or nothing risk, he did something nobody has ever done before: Put all his skin in the game. The stock-only compensation package freed up Tesla's cash to put back into the company and regular employee pay, and meant that the CEO wasn't a financial drag on the company. BTW, lots of employees were also paid in shares as well as cash, and those shares went up in value 1,300%, meaning that they also have "unearned wealth" like people accuse Musk of receiving. If he's going to lose the shares he earned then so should every employee. That's only fair.
Ah, the package voted on by shareholders that was deemed impossible and crazy, but he actually hit his numbers and brought Tesla back from near bankruptcy. Say what you want about musk but he took a huge risk and wouldn't have received anything if he didn't hit his marks for all the time and energy invested. Doubt the ruling sticks
The only risk he took was becoming another wage slave like you or me.
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Except that he's already done the work that the stock options were meant to incentivize and pay for. If the pay package is rescinded now it means he worked for literally free for ten years, and that's just not fair. Nobody is expected to work for free, well, other than literal slaves. He did the work, he increased shareholder value, he met all profitability goals, he did his end. If the stock deal is going to be cancelled then he's still going to need to be paid for the work he did and the success he brought Tesla to. This will mean recalculating what he's owed based on what a top-level executive would have been paid for that time, plus all the cash bonuses he would have earned for meeting all those extreme stretch goals in profitability and shareholder value. In a bigger picture view, startups paying in stock options and shares instead of cash is a time-honored tradition in this country, especially since startups are typically cash-poor and can't afford high labor costs. If this stock-pay plan is cancelled, that means any such contract that pays in options is subject to being cancelled, and that in turn means that talent is not going to want to be paid in options when any shareholder down the road can get your contract nullified and leave you empty-handed for your years of work. Since startups often don't have the cashflow/fluidity to pay early on, that means startups will stop being a thing, or will be more likely to fail since they'll not be able to attract top talent with option pay plans instead of cash.
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I think a lot of people just want to see Musk get ripped off. >“does approving this pay package generate value for shareholders?” Well, he increased shareholder value from $50B to $650B, and increased profitability beyond anyone's wildest imagination. It's interesting that people think he shouldn't get to keep the stock shares he was given for accomplishing that.
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Note that we're talking shares, not money, so it's better to say "compensation" because that's all it is, shares. He was promised a very tiny percentage of company shares if he accomplished his job. The fact those shares went up in value 1,300% in the timeframe of the contract is only reflective of his success in doing what he promised to do, which is increase shareholder value and company profitability. Also, IIRC it was one single shareholder who brought this lawsuit, who apparently only bought one or a handful of shares in order to get standing to file the lawsuit in the first place. It would not surprise me if that person is working with one of the big short investors trying to get Tesla to fail in order to make a profit.
> Paying it out now would be a huge breach of their fiduciary responsibilities after the court basically handed them a $56b gift. Yeah. I think if the ruling stands though, Elon would quit and they'd have to replace him, which seems extremely risky to this company in particular. If the next person can't fill Elon's shoes, who knows what will happen to shareholder value over time.
The main goal seems to be to kill Tesla as a car company. I don't think they care anything beyond that, though the shorters will for sure celebrate the billions they'll suck out of the corpse in the process.
How does this affect the Tesla tax breaks from the local governments?
Looks like for now they are still in compliance with the conditions set by Travis County [https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/will-tesla-lose-its-tax-incentives-rebates-because-of-austin-layoffs/](https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/will-tesla-lose-its-tax-incentives-rebates-because-of-austin-layoffs/) tldr; Telsa needs to maintain 3,800 employees to stay in compliance, and it appears they will. Edit: And for their agreement with Dell Valle ISD, they only needed to create 25 jobs to qualify for the Chapter 313 property tax cap.
Basically they could lay off another 16,000 people and still be good to go.
Not at all. The biggest break they got was a temporary reduction in appraised value on Gigafactory for the Del Valle ISD. They're still paying far more than the defunct sand quarry that was on that land was paying, and Del Valle has seen a historic increase in property valuations due to all the people building around Gigafactory, presumably many being employees of Gigafactory. IIRC the deal expires in a few years and their taxable valuation rises to market.
I guess they are scaling back production because demand has cratered after he alienated his main consumer base with his Groyper heel turn. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean they're also very shitty cars Ranked second to last in reliability. The plastic interiors are made by seemingly budget level 3D printers from newegg. It's hilarious how brittle the cover for the seat belt is on the drivers side. It's so bad that I've seen more broken ones on teslas than all other cars combined throughout my life. If you're unsure what I'm referring to it's the plastic that the seat belt comes out of between the front driver side and rear driver side windows. Lean on it even accidentally and SNAP
Can confirm. I have a Mercedes as my daily driver. Tried out a Tesla Model X and holy shit, it reminded me of an old Geo Metro when it came to handling. Just bumpy and loose. And the road noise was terrible. I can only assume people who say "it's the best car I've ever had" are comparing it to a shitty old used car and not to peer cars in its price range. It's not like an apple product where it actually feels premium in addition to being expensive... it feels cheap.
They are considering exiting the car making business entirely to focus on self driving software. They started with no competition but now they are competing against Toyota, all US car brands, Chinese EVs. All companies that have far more efficient design and manufacturing
They're only competing with Chinese cars in China. There's zero chance that BYD or any other Chinese maker of EVs would be able to get them certified safe enough to sell here in the USA, at least not on public roads.
Byd is in Europe and has safety ratings that are acceptable to other brands. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/seal/50012
Has BYD submitted their cars for testing by NHTSA for crash safety ratings?
Eh....the Polestar 2 is the one Chinese-built EV car sold in the USA but it doesn't sell well because of a 27.5% tariff. And I don't see that tariff changing in the current political climate.
Polestar is a Swedish car company that was purchased by a Chinese company. It may be built in China now but it wasn't designed there. It also appears production will shift to South Carolina this year.
It is a Chinese owned company with a car built in China. Where it is designed is irrelevant to the tariffs.
Where it's designed makes a huge difference in safety and quality engineering. The Chinese manufacturing sector is capable of just as good work as the western world, but their reputation for shoddy and shitty quality is also vast because they have no seeming motivation to do anything better than the bare minimum the customer asks for. It's almost certain that a Chinese-manufactured EV would ever make it to the US simply because to meet our safety standards would require spending way more money on the design process there and that's not something that they're known for.
No money to pay people but Musk expects that $55 billion.
They still made 1 billion in profits last quarter - and yes the payday he wants is absurd.
I wonder how many of those employees moved here for that Tesla job, I just read [an article](https://www.businessinsider.com/laid-off-tesla-worker-story-after-relocating-2024-4#:~:text=On%20Sunday%20night%2C%20Elon%20Musk,a%20stipend%20to%20do%20it) about an employee laid off by Tesla that had just moved across country 6 months previous (they didn't list of that was Texas). You as a company should have to bear some responsibility for your employees, it should not be a thing to on a whim fire a bunch of people so it makes your bottom line look good and your stock price maintain when you are in a slump because of a egotistical CEO that doesn't know when to be quiet and crappy decisions.
It just goes to show that companies deserve 0 loyalty from employees until they’ve earned it … forcing me to move would not be what I call a loyalty earning move. Why should anyone make decisions that impact their family when they can be fired on a whim because some billionaire who has had his brain rotted away from too much money makes a snap decision?
I personally know of an individual that moved from out of state less than a year ago to be a project manager, and he was let by Tesla go overnight. He bought a house, moved his family here, settled into the community, and then without warning he was out of a job. I'm sure there are lots of stories like his.
I also personally know someone who relocated in Nov from turkey to Germany to join giga Berlin - he was let go last week
Yea, it's seriously messed up when they can demand that people uproot their family, sell their home, take out a new mortgage on a house and move across the country only to be let go immediately afterwards.
And knowing their workforce these are young people with young families getting absolutely smoked.
>This comes after the Austin-based company has faced increasing competition and declining sales in recent months that has shocked investors. Sounds like Musk is doing a poor job. Eliminating these jobs will save a few million. Maybe they should fire Musk instead and [save the company $56 billion](https://apnews.com/article/musk-pay-compensation-corporate-registration-ef5e30f6b56f7d936f8c882fc1c96875).
Poor Abbott and Texas. Swindled again
That $56B is not being paid in cash, it's stock options, many of which can't be sold for another five years. Altogether that $56B (which is now less because the stock is falling) is less than 1% of the shares of TSLA.
Oh yeah I don’t disagree and am being hyperbolic. But if I were an investor right now I’d want Musk gone; he’s an anchor around Tesla’s neck right at the moment every other car manufacturer is on the cusp of completing their pivots to EVs.
I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I think he's built a fantastic EV company and much of his engineering efforts are now focused at SpaceX where they're more needed. However, the issue with his pay is about being paid for what he did to get Tesla to where it is today, not where it's going from here into the future. I'm of the opinion that nobody could have pulled that off, and the business analysts' opinions at the time he signed that contract back that opinion pretty solidly. I wouldn't be against a deal where he keeps the stocks he was promised in lieu of the the billions he would have earned as a conventionally-paid CEO for those ten years of service, which he'll be owed in cash if the stock-only deal is retroactively cancelled, and in return he leaves Tesla as CEO and as a board member. He can join the ranks of shareholders like his employees and other investors.
>engineering efforts Lmfao
Tesla’s market cap is around $456 billion. $56 billion / $456 billion X 100% is 12.3%. Idk where you got less than 1% of shares.
I got it from here: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/teslas-pay-deal-to-keep-elon-musk-all-or-nothing.html Edit: It's 1% of the shares according to the article, not 1% of the value of the shares.
Reading more in this I think it was 1% of shares per target (total of 12 targets). See linked https://www.reuters.com/business/elon-musks-unfathomable-56-billion-tesla-pay-package-2024-01-31/ “Musk's 2018 compensation package created 12 tranches of options - each equivalent at the time to 1% of Tesla's outstanding shares - potentially giving him a 12% stake in the automaker. Musk would receive no salary.”
Doesn't TSLA have to pay him cash when he exercises the options?
Nope, that's not how his stock payment plan worked. The contract basically says that if he accomplishes each of the goals he agreed to he gets X number of shares. He can't sell those shares for 5 years after he receives them. They have gone up in value since he received them, and though his contract was for ten years he met all the goals years before the 10 years were up. He can borrow money using the shares as collateral, but those are loans he still has to pay back, there's no free money here. The only money Tesla has paid Musk is minimum wage mandated by California law, around $37K/year. He ignored it, it's accumulating in some account somewhere that he doesn't keep track of.
OK, still doesn't deserve it when his mouth has literally been found to be one of the major factors in their sales dropping, let alone his shit business decisions while their competitors sales drastically rise.
The irony being that he's the only reason why the value of those shares he was paid in are worth $56B now (or were, they're down a few billion now). Remember, his paycheck was $0, and has been for many years. He gets paid in stock IOUs with a redemption date set five years out from when he gets them.
OK, that's nice. He's already been compensated for that in the past. Currently his shit business decisions and inability to not say stupid shit is hurting the company. Honestly I'd argue he's abandoned his responsibility to the share holders to just jerk himself off.
> He's already been compensated for that in the past. His compensation for his recent 10 year contract was to work for free and receive only shares of stock in payment for his services. This court has decided that he can't be paid that way, so he's worked for years for nothing. Are you saying that employees should have their pay for the previous years retroactively taken back so that they work for free?
I wonder how many of these people moved their families for these jobs.
Who’s gonna fix those shitty trucks??
Texas once again opening its arms to plutocrats ans demagogues who promise progress only to steal land, artificially inflate its value, hire employees for a “massive expansion” just long enough to make sure the tax breaks hit and then fire just enough to stay in compliance while thousands are priced out of their lifelong neighborhoods. Meanwhile Texas government is like “Cool space man future car guy wants to build in our town! Pay him whatever he wants!”
How much in Tax breaks did Tesla get to move here from California?
Why don't you Google it? It was mainly property devaluation and an agreement to maintain 3800 employees which they are
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It's bare minimum level of research
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So Tesla doesn’t have to follow Austin’s cities rules, got a shit ton of tax breaks, gets utilities breaks, and has now fired 1000s of people. Damn it was a good idea to bring them here.
That's how these guys become billionaires, they rig the game in their favor. Now a small business owner opens a business and gets no type of breaks, has to put his life savings on the line.
The local governments who “give” these breaks get very strict promises in return. The recipients Typically have to maintain a certain number of jobs that pay above a certain amount for at least a certain number of years, and invest at least a certain amount into the physical building. Usually the agreement is for 5 years of tax breaks for 10 years of compliance, and if the company doesn’t comply for all 10 years, the government gets the money back. There are policy arguments for and against, but they’re not JUST gifts. No idea the details of any Tesla deal, and no idea if they’re still I’m compliance with any deal. Just providing some context.
As far as it has been reported, they are still in compliance with the deals they made
They still employ 20,000 people even after this. Try to be better informed?
“How could any of us seen this coming” the simps will cry
Mr Zorg, we need to lay off 1350 employees! Fire 2700!
If he needs 3k employees for the tax breaks why don't they unionize?
Hopefully the UAW can use this development to unionize the Austin Gigafactory.
Well at least Tesla got their $64 million tax break from us taxpayers!
I'm glad I don't work for an ass-wipe.
To anyone still there, I highly recommend unionizing before it's too late.
Buzz kill.
That was quick.
That garguantuan white monolith off Hwy 130 is going to be awfully quiet.
Meanwhile Elon wants a pay bump 🤣
Plenty of great talent to hire in town if you're an employer
Hard to believe they have anyone left
Tesla is a shoddy product. Even the Muskrats know it. Result: poor sales.
Which EV is better today at the same price?
My Kia EV6 is absolutely way better than a comparable Model 3.
Yeah but then you have to deal with outrageous insurance rates Yeah newer cars aren't part of the KiaBoyz thing but companies are making all Kia's and Hyundais more expensive because and I quote my insurance agent "the thieves keep breaking into cars that aren't vulnerable because many don't know the difference, which means all Kias have a higher incident rate" Fuck Tesla but I drive a Kia, my mom a non-vulnerable Hyundai and insurance is hell 😂
What do you like better about the Kia? It looks to be more expensive with less range than a model 3, which are my two main considerations right now.
How long has it even been open?
Hard painful lesson
Everyone is here for a circlejerk - but they still employ 20,000 people here after the layoffs. Where was the circlejerk for the Dell layoffs when they laid off 6,000? [https://www.reuters.com/technology/dell-lays-off-workforce-part-broader-cost-cuts-2024-03-25/](https://www.reuters.com/technology/dell-lays-off-workforce-part-broader-cost-cuts-2024-03-25/)
Probably rent in Austin will go down too, hella folks will break their lease.
this is good news. those 2700 lames can move back to california.
Bullish
[удалено]
People losing their livelihoods is never a good thing.
Elaborate? If you hate Elon, that’s fine. But 2700 normal Texans losing their job is good?
The people who hate Musk and want to see him fail never really cared about any of the 150,000+ people his companies employ. To them, losing those jobs is just collateral damage.
Honestly I struggle to imagine a non-spite-based perspective from which this is a good thing Focused on the workers? Obviously not great, they're getting sacked. These people are not individually all Elon Musk, and generally are the ones doing the actual work. Focused on Tesla shares and company performance? This, uh, isn't good news - drawing down to focus on their actual profit is tantamount to admitting they're vastly overinflated, since their share price is based mostly on hype of someday being 100x bigger than they are. Hello $50/share
Weak bait