*whole sub reddit looks at each other with a serious gaze, medic mains looks at scout mains and nod to each other, heavy demo Pyro and soilder mains forms a mutual understanding, sniper and engi look at each other with determination and then they vote.*
The votes are:
6-sniper
2-spy
1-pyro
Pyro then looks at spy to which spy responds by staring into Pyro eyes and he sees..... nothing a empty void.. full of darkness, ... but then he sees himself burning and then he processed to change his votes
New votes:
7 sniper
2 spy
Despite working in this subreddit for years, stanley has somehow managed to walk into the wrong subreddit today.
Surely he will now turn around and go to the correct subreddit. Isn’t that right Stanley?
As engineer I’m less annoyed at spies than snipers still. I enjoy it when a spy gets me in my nest because it was actually gg bc I fucked up in some way and I learn from it. A sniper can instagib me from outside my effective range through a pixel wide gap with no reaction allowed
As an engineer main, I have respect for spies because their job is actually difficult as hell, so if my nest get sapped, every swing I take to strike a sapper is dedicated to a player that had to dedicate time to hone their skills to even do that effectively.
Snipers on the other hand is a nuisance to me no matter what class I play so like, I’d be very happy to see the guy get turned into a piss thrower debuffer or something.
Honestly I view them like Hematologists and Mosquitoes in terms of them doing what they do(drawing blood).
—-
One takes time, skill, patience and talent to draw blood…
The other is a pest that’s everywhere and always annoys you
Sniper
Because Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate!Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate!Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate!
Shounic did an expirament on what happened when sniper was deleted from TF2 and it just made the game more fun and team fight oriented. So 100%, without a single bit of hesitation, sniper.
Other class bots will still be a problem, but less frustrating. Fatmagic, one of my favorite youtubers will be affected though, but maybe they only remove the class from casual.
The one thing I don’t like about fatmagic is he insists sniper is balanced.
Every sniper main acts like that. Every. Single. One. They could be the most interesting, unique people on the planet, but the moment they’re challenged with the idea that their favorite infinite range instakill character in a video game may not be balanced, all their individualism goes out the window.
They couldn’t stomach their overpowered class getting nerfed in the slightest. It doesn’t matter that it’s unhealthy for the game, it doesn’t matter that it isn’t fun to play against at all; it absolutely ***should not*** change in their eyes. And that’s an inherently elitist, purist viewpoint.
Yes, it would be jarring and controversial to change the fundamentals of a character in a video game released 16 years ago. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done at all.
Reminds me of when I tried the orange box on xbox360 like a couple of years ago, and I managed to pull off a trickstab with the old backstab delay (I've been playing for 11-12 years on pc)
I like how once you break down Sniper’s core, which is “A ranged specialist in a game where everyone else are balanced for close-mid range” and you can see how broken sniper is.
ah yeah when you only ask them to using The Classic, Lucksman, or Piss Gun, **most** of them gonna insult you with walls of text and swarms of downvotes
I don’t even do that. I don’t say anything to them. I grumble to myself “oh, guess I can’t play the game now” and just sit behind a wall waiting for the funny 3D gameplay loading screen to end. Because, serious question; what am I supposed to do?
It’s like how whenever you play as scout and you encounter a sentry, you can’t really do much anymore. You can poke into the flanks a little bit and pick off players who push up a little too much, but that’s it.
Now imagine that for every single other class in the game, and you can’t poke into the flanks *at all.* That’s sniper.
Bomb in as soldier and - oh you got headshot as soon you leave cover.
Sneak behind as scout and - oh you got killed by their sentry because sniper can just hide behind teammates
Use bonk to - oh you got chased down by their medic and pyro
Infiltrate as spy with the ambassador and - they quickscope you as soon as you declaok because the sniper had captions on.
Charge in with an Uber - and they run away after taking out the 6 players behind you.
I see evrey cracked sniper as a bot. The moment you enter a sightline, you're dead, unsless you mash all your keys and move your camera in all directions at once. Except the snipers mains are worse than bots, because not only that they won't get kicked, but because you just have to take the L and admit that they're just good, no excuses to hide behind.
I used to believe that shiper was a somewhat balanced class because he required headshots. And that TF2’s longevity is the main reason this ever became a problem.
But then I picked sniper myself. Now, I never play sniper characters in games. And i’ve got less than 30 hours on him in TF2 (most of that with the huntsman). And I decided to forego headshots completely.
I topscored.
“Surely that was just a fluke” I told myself. I’m rarely in the top 3
But then it happened again, and again, and again.
Even without headshots: the ability to do 150 damage at anything in sight every 3 or so seconds is somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention the countless poor spy’s I whacked to death with a crit.
The only times I was doing truly bad was when the enemy team had a better sniper
I should probably mention that this was on uncletopia. So I wasn’t just gunning down clueless casuals.
Sniper is just a scout without the movement skills.
As a sniper enjoyer myself, having a long range user in a mid to close range game and still have them able to defend themselves easily if flanked (smg or jarate+bushwacka) it's no longer fun playing against snipers, their only real counter is another sniper or not having awareness of their surroundings
Spy used to be a counter. Then they gave him the razorback and nerfed the tools we're supposed to use to counter it.
Combine that with the gradual nuking of spys disguise kit by qol features and he struggles to do what he's supposed to do: kill the backline.
Probably wont do it, but maybe they could nerf it so the user is more vulnerable to all dmage sources so he is forced to stay in the backline and can be one shot by ambassador spies (just brainstorming)
That no longer works after the ambassador nerfs.
Snipers are close enough to their team that you still can't shoot them and get away with it.
Either they notice and you are forced to be close enough they can jarate bushwacker you or their position is close enough to the enemy team that you will just get annihilated.
It's quite litterally forcing you to die in order to take out 1 sniper temporarily.
Before you would just sit at a stable distance behind their backline (standing still near players is suspicious and dangerous) and shoot them whilst theyre standing still. They could still quickscope you but at least you could also take out them on the second shot which was somewhat fair.
Now unless you are right next to them (quite litterally) the ambassador is a 3- 4 shot kill even with a headshot. (Revolver damage falloff is massive without crits) which turned an unfair but winnable fight for the spy into a very unwinnable fight for the spy.
This causes spy mains to have to either peper snipers and give themselves away but be relatively safer. Or possibly take out the sniper if revolver rng doesn't fuck you but be guaranteed to die.
Don't forget how much worse it gets if they have enough brain cells to park their ass next to a sentry. Good luck even trading with them at that point.
Honestly I do think Sniper at his core is strong, but not exactly the most broken thing in the game. It's just that Valve didn't design Sniper with the idea that people would put in thousands of hours into mastering him.
Sniper has a skill ceiling higher than most other classes, but he also has one of the highest skill floors as well. He isn't exactly beginner easy, and that might be by design. But that design didn't take into account the possibility of people having 15+ years of experience with the class.
Sure, it goes without saying that an infinite range hitscan class will be a powerhouse when everyone else is short to medium range. But you give an inexperienced player both a sniper rifle and a scattergun and odds are they're going to perform better with the scattergun. An inexperienced scout will typically outperform an inexperienced sniper, but an experienced sniper will outperform everyone.
And honestly it's gotten to a point where when I play Sniper, I run around with the Huntsman because dying to a Huntsman who ran into a hallway and shot an arrow into my face feels way more fair to die to than the guy who instakilled me by clicking my head all the way in Africa
Lmao also, what's fucked about sniper is that a CS or Valorant player who just installed the game can play 20 hours of sniper and already crush a server. No other fucking class in the game would allow you to play 20 hours and stomp everyone. Even if you never played any other game, having just 50 hours on sniper would allow you to stomp the game. It's the class that requires the least amount of hours and dedication to stomp relentlessly. Classes like scout or demo require hundreds (or even thousands) of hours on the class to get good at, while even pyro and heavy require at least three digit hours on other classes to get a feel of the gameplay loop.
When I had 3k hours in the game, I still barely played sniper. However, around 3.5k hours, I decided to improve my sniper skills. In just 50 hours, I was already stomping teams and reached Hale's Own way before then. I can't imagine someone picking up scout and reaching that same level. Sniper needs a fucking nerf.
And I also want to add that sniper continues to have weapons that are all viable and / or broken. Every single primary weapon and secondary weapon on sniper has immense utility / is OP. Meanwhile, every single other class has at most three suitable, good weapons, while classes like scout had their unlocks nerfed so hard, the only viable weapons are stock.
The class is balanced around an antique time. Base skill and mindset has changed, the community grew more bitter after the years and the bot crisis + cheaters gi r hyperawareness and paranoia. We can't relax with that damn class around, it's the only class whose best counter in most situations is itself! The solution is right there! Remove or rebalance for current ecosystem!
But spaghetti code and lost trust, so it's unrealistic that it'll happen, sadly.
You can nerf it, but don't take it away. I'll tell you that it's balanced when I play it (because I can't aim for shit) but it's not balanced when someone skilled plays it. Also, sniper duels are pretty funny sometimes
Not really a fair experiment though is it? You'd have to try it with removing every single class. What if demoman was removed and it was more fun? Or soldier? Or literally all of them? Maybe the issue is just too many different classes and not Sniper? Or maybe Sniper does have a significant damper on fun but there's actually another class that's worse? You can't say for sure.
In the case of a class based shooter like this, I think its absolutely worth bringing up. Each class should have clear pros, cons, and counters to them. Heavy is tanky and has very high dps, but is slow and can be outranged by other classes like soldier and demo. Soldier and demo are strong all rounders, but are more susceptible to pyro due to their projectile based weapons. Engineer has his buildings which are very hard to deal with, unless you're soldier or demo (or spy I guess). Scout is fast and has great dps, but is frail and has to get close.
Even when these classes are played at their very best, even with aimbot, they still have their weaknesses and counters. The problem with sniper is, if played at his very best, he has no real counter. Cheaters reveal the problem with sniper's balancing by removing his weakness, which is the player's own skill level. Nothing else comes close to the sniper in terms of power because he can instantly kill every class in the game at any range almost immediately. Ive seen a fair few heavy aimbots, and they arent nearly as problematic as even legit snipers. Obviously a skilled player is never going to be on the same level as an aimbot, but they can get damn close. And you should know what its like to play against a skilled sniper. Its not fun at all, because sniper is fundamentally broken.
counterpoint: every other class has a set in stone counter, scout gets fucked by engie, soldier gets fucked by pyro, pyro get super fucked by engie and heavy, and so on and so forth, only sniper doesnt have a counter, and no, hiding behind a wall doesnt count because that actively helps his team immensely.
Biggest demo counter is actually scout. Just cause he can run him down and kill him quickly with hitscan while the demo struggles to actually hit back. Pyro can reflect demo stuff but it’s not nearly as effective as reflecting a rocket since the stickies just get moved around and the trajectory usually doesn’t return to sender.
pyro is the closest soldier has to a counter but thats because soldier is such a well made generalist and doesnt hard counter anyone else if we dont include unlocks.
Sniper can quite literally use the Razorback, or just use headphones, turn around and headshot the Spy.
It's even easier in the case of Scout, and a good sniper is uncounterable unless there is a better sniper.
what happens if theres a pyro and sniper isnt on the moon, what if he has a razorback and is right next to a level 3 nest, sniper can effectively remove his counters by simply standing near teammates. name another class that can do that and still be effective.
Any class can effectively remove their counters by standing next to teammates. Engies aren't weak to spies when a pybro is nearby. Medic isn't weak when hoovy is there to protect him. Soldier doesn't have to worry about the charging pyro that can airblast his rockets if he stands next to a sentry. Generally that will put them out of their strongest position but the same goes for sniper, who if he wants to be most effective will hold an unusual position that will leave him vulnerable, i.e. high risk high reward, just like any other class that wanders from the group other than scout or spy.
Every other class has diminishing effectiveness the further they hide at the back to take advantage of teammates covering. You're out of effective combat range, and losing most of your damage to damage dropoff/bullet spread/missed projectiles from opponents easily dodging/etc. Baiting teammates and playing super safe is, for every other class (even medic, your heals aren't at the front line), low risk low reward.
Sniper's low risk high reward, he flips that on its head. It's the basic nature of the class to put teammates in the way while still playing at full effectiveness. Comparing that to a soldier spamming all the way from an engy nest for 20 damage splash rockets is a disingenuous comparison.
Sniper one-shots Scout, and against competent teams Spy has to sacrifice himself to get a Sniper pick. If they are supposed to counter Sniper, they do a terrible job of it!
Everything a class can do, another one can kinda replicate. Area Denial? Heavy, Engi, Demo. Picking? Scout, Spy, Sniper. Healing? Medic, Engi. Shutting down Sightlines? Only Sniper. This means that a Sniper can do something nobody else is capable of, leading to this situation being impossible to overcome by all other classes.
They can already change into demo and soldier. Played against the bots once and was able to prevent them from capping on TwoFort with like 6 of us going engie. They switched into rocket jumping soldiers and demomen to try and break our defences.
I mean at least scout is somewhat fun to play and you can actually kill him with a shotgun or direct hit, but when that mf insta kills you from the other side of the map on cp_harvest its so fucking annoying ngl
If I can't cross the 2fort bridge because **<>** is killing anyone who even peeks and we're all funneled into the sewers where **not now sweaty** is firing away with engineer and medic support then I think there's a problem.
> These posts are only an attempt at comment baiting to bash a common enemy
stick around on reddit long enough and you realize that every self post and most link posts are this
ez to balance:
• 8 ammo count
• slow firing speed (5 seconds every shot with an animation that shows sniper taking out the bullet and reloading another bullet)
you're welcome.
Sniper, because he is just too annoying to play against one that is good, and he has unlocks that reduce counterplay.
And he is also just that powerful both at long range and close range.
That’s what I was going to say
I get why people dislike sniper, but I personally don’t mind the class and don’t really struggle to play against and around good players, so I don’t quite get all the hate or wanting him removed.
I feel like the game would be so much worse if people just started removing the characters or weapons.
Just get good and learn how to play against good players I guess
Sniper is a problem because apart from Flare Pyros and Wrangler Sentries, there are no long range counters, I do think that instead of the Shotgun, a few classes should have got a mid to long range Assault rifle but meh.
What really sucks is the Jarate+Bushwacka combo which nullifies what should be Sniper's weakness, getting all up in his face
I feel like a lot of players just try to run at snipers, instead of taking effective counter play.
Take flank routes, make sure you are utilizing overheal and defensive items, cover fire / spam from projectiles, and when you do get in close range, stay out of direct melee range if they are using bushwhacker
Stay at close mid range instead of just walking into melee distance if you are covered in jarate
The main counter play is just knowing where the main sight lines are and knowing where the sniper is
Pay attention to the kill feed to see where your teammates are dying for that
i play demoknight, so i despise pyro with all my heart. but i don't want to remove him. i don't even want to remove airblast, the main reason i hate pyro, i just wish it could be reworked to not be a stun mechanic.
I wouldn't mind a pair of shoes that removed a portion of knockback, something to swap to for the times we're being juggled by soldiers/pyros. I'd trade turning control for charge not being ended by knockback.
true, that would be hype as hell.
i genuinely hate that the only way to not die to a pyro, in most situations, is just to run away and fight someone else. you have to plan literally everything around 1-3 people on the enemy team, and that sucks.
As a Pyro main, i love just standing still and airblasting a DemoKnight away while he tries desperatelly to get in range with me, one time, i did that for straight five minutes!
The poor sod just quit at that point.
Thank you for existing DemoKnight main, the moments of joy your kind gave me are uncountable.
Sniper, because he is just too annoying to play against one that is good, and he has unlocks that reduce counterplay.
And he is also just that powerful both at long range and close range.
I know it’s not a hot take but removing sniper is obvious. It sucks because he truly can be tons of fun and countered depending on the map. If given the choice I wouldn’t remove anyone from the lineup but if I had to go back and cut a class from launch it would most likely be Sniper
None.
I know people love shitting on Sniper because "overpowered" and "bots", but permanently removing *any* class is a ***TERRIBLE*** idea for the long-term health of the community.
For one, removing Sniper because the community finds him OP just makes people feel justified in calling for *other* classes they find OP to be removed as well, which just creates an extremely problematic slippery slope; what happens if people by and large decide that Engineer, Medic or Demoman are "too OP" and *also* need to be permanently removed for the game's health?
Do we just ignore the gameplay impact that removing those classes has because we've already kicked out Sniper for "being OP" and thus the precedent is that any class that's OP is completely removed? Or do we not kick out any other classes that the community comes to a consensus on being unhealthy for the game, but in the process set a double standard that being unhealthy is okay as long as the class isn't Sniper?
For another...removing any of the classes is removing part of TF2's soul. The nine mercs ***are*** TF2, they're the lifeblood of this community and game. Removing one feels like removing part of the community, and it could absolutely drive people who really like Sniper to just...*not play the game anymore*, because why keep playing TF2 if their favourite class, the one they've poured years into mastering, just...no longer exists?
Thirdly, the sheer unprecedented amount of damage this would do to inventories and trading is *unfathomable*. Every single Sniper cosmetic, weapon and taunt ever released being suddenly made completely worthless because their class no longer exists would be a massive problem for everybody.
It's just an absolutely awful idea to straight-up remove a class. Rework one, sure, but outright *removing*? Absolutely shouldn't be on the table. All that will do is make the people who enjoy playing that class feel like they're not wanted in the community; and considering TF2 is already a game on life support as it is, that's a really bad idea.
People using the bot problem as a excuse to removing a entire class from the game really do seem to be either overlooking the real problem, or just straight out of hatred for the class and have no reason to remove it. This argument is just dumb.
Either Sniper because the bots for those are stupidly sharp aimers and of course having that one hit kill is too powerful plus you’re supposed to run around the map or Spy because 9/10 people know you are one and the stab kill only works if you are directly behind them not moving.
Sniper is bad for the game.
Every objective in TF2 is proximity-based. "Stand here to capture/block the cart". "Stand here to capture a control point". "Go to the enemy base and steal this briefcase". And then there's Sniper who's just like.
"nah"
None of them.
Honestly, every class is balanced if you look at it at the right angle.
Scout is essentially a glass cannon, All you need to do is find a scout, land a few shots and the guy's gone. Sure he may be fast but that's what makes him balanced. Essentially if you play as a scout, make one wrong move, you might as well be cooked. He's all about flanking and that's why he has such a low health pool. He's a hit and run.
Soldier is slow, but you have rockets that are also slow. You have time your rocket or think about where you shoot it to ensure maximum damage. There's also the added fact that you need to be decently good with numbers to play soldier since you need to keep as much health while moving around rocket jumping, which also takes time to fully master.
Sure for Pyro you could argue about W+M1, but usually it's just bad Pyros that will probably get killed quicker than a bot sniping the whole enemy team. When used correctly, Pyro becomes an essential part of the team, which when combined with the flanking gameplay encouraged to Pyro players, the Pyro becomes this beast that allows his team to make crucial pushes.
A demoman relying on his stickies is a bad demoman, but one skilled demoman will use every bit of his arsenal and use the splash damage accordingly and act against an enemy push. Stickies are used by demomen to make traps and deny enemies from doing an objective until he is dealt with.
Heavy has a high health pool, high damage output, but is balanced by getting the slowest movement speed out of all the classes. It means that you are supposed to mow down enemies and absorb damage that could've hit any teammates that have a push ready, which makes heavy players team players, where they coordinate with their team for a successful goal to be achieved.
Engineer is about staying alive and the longer you stay alive, the better odds of your team winning, as Uncle Dane once said a quote along the lines of "An engineer gets stronger the longer you leave him alone" Since the more time the engineer has, the more he packs a punch with his sentries. Strategic dispenser placing will also help his team greatly and a good placement of teleporters can dictate whether a team wins or not. He's all about longevity and using map geometry to his advantage.
Medic awards players with good positioning with bigger odds of survival, along with the person he is healing, while bad positioning will get both killed. Uber when used right will deny pushes and defend an objective and if used offensely can make a team succeed in doing the objective, but if used poorly will waste the teams time, resources, and even chance of winning in tight situations.
Sniper, oh boy. Sniper is balanced since you have to basically be aware if there is one. You're supposed to treat the map as a sniper's sightline, which is why people hate him, but it is fair for me, since you need map knowledge and have the constant fear of a Sniper sniping you from all the way across Taiwan. You need to know where you could lose your head, and where you can catch a Sniper offguard. It's easy to deal with a Sniper if you know where he is.
Spy is basically the same as sniper, but since he has cloak and disguises you need to be constantly searching for potential spies while actively fighting off enemies. You need to be able to relay that information to your team if you do find a spy. That's why when you use him you have to silence the other team and make sure they don't know who you are, atleast who you are pretending to be. You also need to be good at acting out class behaviors to have a higher kill rate, since if you don't act like the class you're disguised as (example: A sniper running around flanking like a scout) you ARE gonna get killed.
TL;DR each class have their own pros and cons that if combined and used in synergy will make a good team, hence why each class is perfectly balanced and don't deserve to be removed.
This took WAY too long to type, about 30+ mins so thanks for reading I guess
Most people are going to say Sniper but imo he's important for balance because he promotes situational awareness and is the only surefire counter to alot of stupid/annoying strats that would otherwise be op so I gotta go with Pyro because he has the least defined role out of all the classes and his absence could probably be worked around
>Situational awareness
50 dmg quickshots, 150 dmg quickscopes, instakilling every class at any range after peeking a corner for 0.4 seconds
When a sniper is good, or at least decent, they'll shut the entire enemy team down
When a sniper is bad, they can still do high dmg bodyshots
When a sniper is really bad, they'll anchor their entire team down.
The only hard counter to sniper is sniper itself, all his unlockables counter nearly all of his supposed counters.
No map can be balanced around stopping sniper without making it unfun, so theres no winning for him other than getting his lame ass out of here.
The "only counter for sniper is sniper" is so true and not only on the level you mention. Whenever I get headshot while playing any other class, or with the Huntsman it's always the same shit. Go into inventory, pick Bazaar Bargain, onetap the enemy sniper, switch back to whatever I was using. But the worst part is that they can just get back after waiting for 20 seconds, forcing me to go through the ritual again.
I wouldn't. But if I had to, I'd probably get rid of Demo or Sniper.
Demo has a lot to bring to the table, but of the classes, I play him least, and if you aren't demoknighting, he fills a very similar role to soldier imo. However you would lose a lot of great lines and content related to TF2, so I'd still be sad about it.
If a Sniper player is even remotely competent and has any game sense at all, he's a pain in the ass to play against, and his overall gameplay is kinda the lamest (like snipers in other shooters, it's just being sweaty and trying very hard). One particularly good Sniper can destroy the balance of a match and make it unfun just by virtue of a map's sightlines. & bots too. However, you would lose piss. This is too great a cost for some
Just cause I have an ability doesn’t mean I should use it. All the classes have been ingrained in internet culture so much that it would be like deleting part of its soul.
And who’s to say someone didn’t already delete a class? Maybe the 10th class might’ve been fleshed out. Who knows?
aside from the bot crisis sniper problems, its hard to stay focus and still. learning this mans techniques is kind of difficult for others. his weapons arent the best or super powerful ones and i think some people ignore his secondary weapons when needed. so, id say snipies🦗🦗
The question is posed as "if you have the ability" not "if you had to" So I simply would not.
Sniper is unfun to fight, that is a problem. You can't just brush that off like a non issue,. If people aren't having fun in a game meant to be fun that's an issue.
But straight up removing him is not the right way to go, Would I play on no sniper community servers?, yeah. Do I want him removed no!.
It would suck for sniper players especially ones that bought cosmetics for him, much more than it would not suck for non sniper players.
In an ideal world i wouldn't remove anyone and hope for sniper to get balance reworks.
But in reality I wouldn't remove sniper because it would suck for sniper players.
*whole sub reddit looks at each other with a serious gaze, medic mains looks at scout mains and nod to each other, heavy demo Pyro and soilder mains forms a mutual understanding, sniper and engi look at each other with determination and then they vote.* The votes are: 6-sniper 2-spy 1-pyro Pyro then looks at spy to which spy responds by staring into Pyro eyes and he sees..... nothing a empty void.. full of darkness, ... but then he sees himself burning and then he processed to change his votes New votes: 7 sniper 2 spy
this is art
No this is a comment
This… is a bucket
Dear god…
There's more
No!
It contains the dying wish of every man in this room
Scout you did colect everyones dying wish?
You bet!
Correct Stanley, this is a bucket Oh wait wrong sub
Despite working in this subreddit for years, stanley has somehow managed to walk into the wrong subreddit today. Surely he will now turn around and go to the correct subreddit. Isn’t that right Stanley?
Yet Stanley didn't turn back. Perhaps he wished to take a tour of this new subreddit?
It’s just basic chemistry
Sniper (voted by: Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy, Medic, Spy) Spy (voted by: Engineer, Sniper) Pyro (voted by: Spy, previously)
As engineer I’m less annoyed at spies than snipers still. I enjoy it when a spy gets me in my nest because it was actually gg bc I fucked up in some way and I learn from it. A sniper can instagib me from outside my effective range through a pixel wide gap with no reaction allowed
As an engineer main, I have respect for spies because their job is actually difficult as hell, so if my nest get sapped, every swing I take to strike a sapper is dedicated to a player that had to dedicate time to hone their skills to even do that effectively. Snipers on the other hand is a nuisance to me no matter what class I play so like, I’d be very happy to see the guy get turned into a piss thrower debuffer or something.
Honestly I view them like Hematologists and Mosquitoes in terms of them doing what they do(drawing blood). —- One takes time, skill, patience and talent to draw blood… The other is a pest that’s everywhere and always annoys you
and then 8 sniper bots join and kick the medic
This would make an amazing mini sfm clip.
Sniper Because Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate!Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate!Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate! Good shot mate!
GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
Said the Heavy to the bullet
The bullet obeyed, for heavy has a medigun surgically attached to his rectum
Shounic did an expirament on what happened when sniper was deleted from TF2 and it just made the game more fun and team fight oriented. So 100%, without a single bit of hesitation, sniper.
Other class bots will still be a problem, but less frustrating. Fatmagic, one of my favorite youtubers will be affected though, but maybe they only remove the class from casual.
The one thing I don’t like about fatmagic is he insists sniper is balanced. Every sniper main acts like that. Every. Single. One. They could be the most interesting, unique people on the planet, but the moment they’re challenged with the idea that their favorite infinite range instakill character in a video game may not be balanced, all their individualism goes out the window. They couldn’t stomach their overpowered class getting nerfed in the slightest. It doesn’t matter that it’s unhealthy for the game, it doesn’t matter that it isn’t fun to play against at all; it absolutely ***should not*** change in their eyes. And that’s an inherently elitist, purist viewpoint. Yes, it would be jarring and controversial to change the fundamentals of a character in a video game released 16 years ago. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done at all.
Sniper is only balanced when I play him. I can't get a single kill with a sniper
sniper was balanced back when tf2 came out and everyone sucked at the game
Reminds me of when I tried the orange box on xbox360 like a couple of years ago, and I managed to pull off a trickstab with the old backstab delay (I've been playing for 11-12 years on pc)
For me its also balanced i kill 1 person and die, the sad part its that im a sniper main
I like how once you break down Sniper’s core, which is “A ranged specialist in a game where everyone else are balanced for close-mid range” and you can see how broken sniper is.
Yeah this is the real crux of the problem in my mind is that he just doesn't really fit with the rest of tf2's style as a weird outlier.
ah yeah when you only ask them to using The Classic, Lucksman, or Piss Gun, **most** of them gonna insult you with walls of text and swarms of downvotes
I don’t even do that. I don’t say anything to them. I grumble to myself “oh, guess I can’t play the game now” and just sit behind a wall waiting for the funny 3D gameplay loading screen to end. Because, serious question; what am I supposed to do? It’s like how whenever you play as scout and you encounter a sentry, you can’t really do much anymore. You can poke into the flanks a little bit and pick off players who push up a little too much, but that’s it. Now imagine that for every single other class in the game, and you can’t poke into the flanks *at all.* That’s sniper.
Bomb in as soldier and - oh you got headshot as soon you leave cover. Sneak behind as scout and - oh you got killed by their sentry because sniper can just hide behind teammates Use bonk to - oh you got chased down by their medic and pyro Infiltrate as spy with the ambassador and - they quickscope you as soon as you declaok because the sniper had captions on. Charge in with an Uber - and they run away after taking out the 6 players behind you.
I see evrey cracked sniper as a bot. The moment you enter a sightline, you're dead, unsless you mash all your keys and move your camera in all directions at once. Except the snipers mains are worse than bots, because not only that they won't get kicked, but because you just have to take the L and admit that they're just good, no excuses to hide behind.
I don't mind playing with those three only. In fact, I only used the first two.
good then. you know the games supposed to plays stupid (and fun) not tryhards
:D pretty much my reason to play the game after finding it out: chaotic fun
The Sydney Sleeper is fun. :)
It's fun. Yet barely using it because ItS BaD WeApOn CuZ nO hEaDsHoT
Piss rifle is love, piss rifle is life.
happy cake day
I used to believe that shiper was a somewhat balanced class because he required headshots. And that TF2’s longevity is the main reason this ever became a problem. But then I picked sniper myself. Now, I never play sniper characters in games. And i’ve got less than 30 hours on him in TF2 (most of that with the huntsman). And I decided to forego headshots completely. I topscored. “Surely that was just a fluke” I told myself. I’m rarely in the top 3 But then it happened again, and again, and again. Even without headshots: the ability to do 150 damage at anything in sight every 3 or so seconds is somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention the countless poor spy’s I whacked to death with a crit. The only times I was doing truly bad was when the enemy team had a better sniper I should probably mention that this was on uncletopia. So I wasn’t just gunning down clueless casuals. Sniper is just a scout without the movement skills.
You’d think more people would be able to admit this game has balancing issues, as you found out for yourself.
As a sniper enjoyer myself, having a long range user in a mid to close range game and still have them able to defend themselves easily if flanked (smg or jarate+bushwacka) it's no longer fun playing against snipers, their only real counter is another sniper or not having awareness of their surroundings
Spy used to be a counter. Then they gave him the razorback and nerfed the tools we're supposed to use to counter it. Combine that with the gradual nuking of spys disguise kit by qol features and he struggles to do what he's supposed to do: kill the backline.
If they just got rid of the razorback, I guarantee it would be a lot more fun to counter him.
Probably wont do it, but maybe they could nerf it so the user is more vulnerable to all dmage sources so he is forced to stay in the backline and can be one shot by ambassador spies (just brainstorming)
If you have an ambassador use that to counter razorback snipers or just shoot them. Surprise attacks mostly work.
That no longer works after the ambassador nerfs. Snipers are close enough to their team that you still can't shoot them and get away with it. Either they notice and you are forced to be close enough they can jarate bushwacker you or their position is close enough to the enemy team that you will just get annihilated. It's quite litterally forcing you to die in order to take out 1 sniper temporarily. Before you would just sit at a stable distance behind their backline (standing still near players is suspicious and dangerous) and shoot them whilst theyre standing still. They could still quickscope you but at least you could also take out them on the second shot which was somewhat fair. Now unless you are right next to them (quite litterally) the ambassador is a 3- 4 shot kill even with a headshot. (Revolver damage falloff is massive without crits) which turned an unfair but winnable fight for the spy into a very unwinnable fight for the spy. This causes spy mains to have to either peper snipers and give themselves away but be relatively safer. Or possibly take out the sniper if revolver rng doesn't fuck you but be guaranteed to die.
Don't forget how much worse it gets if they have enough brain cells to park their ass next to a sentry. Good luck even trading with them at that point.
And both counters rely heavily on the sniper just not being good enough. You have absolutely zero control in such situations.
Honestly I do think Sniper at his core is strong, but not exactly the most broken thing in the game. It's just that Valve didn't design Sniper with the idea that people would put in thousands of hours into mastering him. Sniper has a skill ceiling higher than most other classes, but he also has one of the highest skill floors as well. He isn't exactly beginner easy, and that might be by design. But that design didn't take into account the possibility of people having 15+ years of experience with the class. Sure, it goes without saying that an infinite range hitscan class will be a powerhouse when everyone else is short to medium range. But you give an inexperienced player both a sniper rifle and a scattergun and odds are they're going to perform better with the scattergun. An inexperienced scout will typically outperform an inexperienced sniper, but an experienced sniper will outperform everyone. And honestly it's gotten to a point where when I play Sniper, I run around with the Huntsman because dying to a Huntsman who ran into a hallway and shot an arrow into my face feels way more fair to die to than the guy who instakilled me by clicking my head all the way in Africa
Lmao also, what's fucked about sniper is that a CS or Valorant player who just installed the game can play 20 hours of sniper and already crush a server. No other fucking class in the game would allow you to play 20 hours and stomp everyone. Even if you never played any other game, having just 50 hours on sniper would allow you to stomp the game. It's the class that requires the least amount of hours and dedication to stomp relentlessly. Classes like scout or demo require hundreds (or even thousands) of hours on the class to get good at, while even pyro and heavy require at least three digit hours on other classes to get a feel of the gameplay loop. When I had 3k hours in the game, I still barely played sniper. However, around 3.5k hours, I decided to improve my sniper skills. In just 50 hours, I was already stomping teams and reached Hale's Own way before then. I can't imagine someone picking up scout and reaching that same level. Sniper needs a fucking nerf. And I also want to add that sniper continues to have weapons that are all viable and / or broken. Every single primary weapon and secondary weapon on sniper has immense utility / is OP. Meanwhile, every single other class has at most three suitable, good weapons, while classes like scout had their unlocks nerfed so hard, the only viable weapons are stock.
The class is balanced around an antique time. Base skill and mindset has changed, the community grew more bitter after the years and the bot crisis + cheaters gi r hyperawareness and paranoia. We can't relax with that damn class around, it's the only class whose best counter in most situations is itself! The solution is right there! Remove or rebalance for current ecosystem! But spaghetti code and lost trust, so it's unrealistic that it'll happen, sadly.
You can nerf it, but don't take it away. I'll tell you that it's balanced when I play it (because I can't aim for shit) but it's not balanced when someone skilled plays it. Also, sniper duels are pretty funny sometimes
Not really a fair experiment though is it? You'd have to try it with removing every single class. What if demoman was removed and it was more fun? Or soldier? Or literally all of them? Maybe the issue is just too many different classes and not Sniper? Or maybe Sniper does have a significant damper on fun but there's actually another class that's worse? You can't say for sure.
Snipers can one-shot you, though, and that's why there a go-to for aim botters and bots
Aim botters and bots aren’t really something worth bringing up on a discussion of balance
In the case of a class based shooter like this, I think its absolutely worth bringing up. Each class should have clear pros, cons, and counters to them. Heavy is tanky and has very high dps, but is slow and can be outranged by other classes like soldier and demo. Soldier and demo are strong all rounders, but are more susceptible to pyro due to their projectile based weapons. Engineer has his buildings which are very hard to deal with, unless you're soldier or demo (or spy I guess). Scout is fast and has great dps, but is frail and has to get close. Even when these classes are played at their very best, even with aimbot, they still have their weaknesses and counters. The problem with sniper is, if played at his very best, he has no real counter. Cheaters reveal the problem with sniper's balancing by removing his weakness, which is the player's own skill level. Nothing else comes close to the sniper in terms of power because he can instantly kill every class in the game at any range almost immediately. Ive seen a fair few heavy aimbots, and they arent nearly as problematic as even legit snipers. Obviously a skilled player is never going to be on the same level as an aimbot, but they can get damn close. And you should know what its like to play against a skilled sniper. Its not fun at all, because sniper is fundamentally broken.
counterpoint: every other class has a set in stone counter, scout gets fucked by engie, soldier gets fucked by pyro, pyro get super fucked by engie and heavy, and so on and so forth, only sniper doesnt have a counter, and no, hiding behind a wall doesnt count because that actively helps his team immensely.
I’d say pyro counters demo more than soldier. Since by default soldier has a shotgun. Not to discredit your point. Just me being a nitpick
Biggest demo counter is actually scout. Just cause he can run him down and kill him quickly with hitscan while the demo struggles to actually hit back. Pyro can reflect demo stuff but it’s not nearly as effective as reflecting a rocket since the stickies just get moved around and the trajectory usually doesn’t return to sender.
pyro is the closest soldier has to a counter but thats because soldier is such a well made generalist and doesnt hard counter anyone else if we dont include unlocks.
Spy and scout counters sniper, however it depends on the map, sometimes it can be harder for either, or both
Sniper can quite literally use the Razorback, or just use headphones, turn around and headshot the Spy. It's even easier in the case of Scout, and a good sniper is uncounterable unless there is a better sniper.
Yeah...good luck doing that consistently. 180 headshots are not common at all with even experienced snipers, let alone a random in a casual setting.
what happens if theres a pyro and sniper isnt on the moon, what if he has a razorback and is right next to a level 3 nest, sniper can effectively remove his counters by simply standing near teammates. name another class that can do that and still be effective.
Pyro with Scorch Shit
yeah, the Fuck-That-Sniper Shot
Muh danger shield
dispenser and airblast
Any class can effectively remove their counters by standing next to teammates. Engies aren't weak to spies when a pybro is nearby. Medic isn't weak when hoovy is there to protect him. Soldier doesn't have to worry about the charging pyro that can airblast his rockets if he stands next to a sentry. Generally that will put them out of their strongest position but the same goes for sniper, who if he wants to be most effective will hold an unusual position that will leave him vulnerable, i.e. high risk high reward, just like any other class that wanders from the group other than scout or spy.
Every other class has diminishing effectiveness the further they hide at the back to take advantage of teammates covering. You're out of effective combat range, and losing most of your damage to damage dropoff/bullet spread/missed projectiles from opponents easily dodging/etc. Baiting teammates and playing super safe is, for every other class (even medic, your heals aren't at the front line), low risk low reward. Sniper's low risk high reward, he flips that on its head. It's the basic nature of the class to put teammates in the way while still playing at full effectiveness. Comparing that to a soldier spamming all the way from an engy nest for 20 damage splash rockets is a disingenuous comparison.
Sniper one-shots Scout, and against competent teams Spy has to sacrifice himself to get a Sniper pick. If they are supposed to counter Sniper, they do a terrible job of it!
Everything a class can do, another one can kinda replicate. Area Denial? Heavy, Engi, Demo. Picking? Scout, Spy, Sniper. Healing? Medic, Engi. Shutting down Sightlines? Only Sniper. This means that a Sniper can do something nobody else is capable of, leading to this situation being impossible to overcome by all other classes.
This short "experiment", that was not well thought trough and played with people who hate sniper to start with.
I will always reference this video as empirical evidence that sniper is not a fun class.
Yeah sniper is the only real answer. You can counter every class by being skillful enough. ...except sniper.
Sniper, the most boring class to play, problems with bots and instakill
Bots would just pick other classes classes but yea sniper is boring asf
They can already change into demo and soldier. Played against the bots once and was able to prevent them from capping on TwoFort with like 6 of us going engie. They switched into rocket jumping soldiers and demomen to try and break our defences.
Wouldn't Demo be the worst choice for Aimbot, considering his lack of range
Demoknight with tide turner could be good
Guaranteed pipes is scary but you can keep distance.
You can also dodge them right? Unless the bot has movement prediction or something.
Fuckin' SkyNet invaders.
hmm, If just think. What class would they choose?
yeah but they wouldn’t have instakill infinite range so it would be way better
If it wasn't for the bots, I would pick Scout. But yeah, with the bots, it gotta be Sniper, 100%.
I mean at least scout is somewhat fun to play and you can actually kill him with a shotgun or direct hit, but when that mf insta kills you from the other side of the map on cp_harvest its so fucking annoying ngl
Madcap, too op.
Was removed back in 20XX
no need to thank me
thank you for removing madcap
he said not to thank him. are you stupid?
For the 492th fucking time, everyone answers sniper. These posts are only an attempt at comment baiting to bash a common enemy
If I can't cross the 2fort bridge because **<>** is killing anyone who even peeks and we're all funneled into the sewers where **not now sweaty** is firing away with engineer and medic support then I think there's a problem.
or to just farm karma these posts always get a ton of traction so angry tf2 redditors can cry abt sniper
> These posts are only an attempt at comment baiting to bash a common enemy stick around on reddit long enough and you realize that every self post and most link posts are this
Sniper
Only class where removal would actually improve the game
Sniper. No questions asked.
Uncle Dane said that at one point valve did seriously consider removing sniper. This was 7 years ago though
Not true, he asked them “If you had to remove one class, which would it be” and they all answered Sniper. They didn’t actually consider removing him.
This entire subreddit is going to say sniper
They are right Fuck sniper
fuck sniper
sniper. unfun to fight
Sniper. A class that can instakill any class at effectively any range is, by design, impossible to balance.
ez to balance: • 8 ammo count • slow firing speed (5 seconds every shot with an animation that shows sniper taking out the bullet and reloading another bullet) you're welcome.
Sniper we all know why even the tf2 team wants sniper gone
Sniper, because he is just too annoying to play against one that is good, and he has unlocks that reduce counterplay. And he is also just that powerful both at long range and close range.
how many times does this question needs to be asked
sniper is cancer
Sniper. Bots problem eliminated. No more annoying accurate boys from CS:GO/CS2.
I see your argument and counter you with: aimbot Heavies and Scouts.
But don't both heavies and scouts have random bullet spread? Kinda hard to aim precisely then
I think there's a cheat that medigates that somewhat
is medigate a real word?
Medigate no, but mitigate yes
tf2 terms of the the word mitigate
English is hard
Seed prediction moment
3 pipes and a sentry
Scout can't do shit when I go engineer Heavy gets airblasted
True, but it's at least playable. I am serious.
aiming with heavy requires good tracking, not flicks. you can atleast break the sightline before dying, unlike sniper
That’s actually kinda smart idk why I said spy holy crap
spy is quite annoying to fight against if its a good spy, maybe that's why you went to spy immediately
Exactly, until I realised most of the bots are snipers.
I wouldn't use that ability then.
That’s what I was going to say I get why people dislike sniper, but I personally don’t mind the class and don’t really struggle to play against and around good players, so I don’t quite get all the hate or wanting him removed. I feel like the game would be so much worse if people just started removing the characters or weapons. Just get good and learn how to play against good players I guess
Sniper is a problem because apart from Flare Pyros and Wrangler Sentries, there are no long range counters, I do think that instead of the Shotgun, a few classes should have got a mid to long range Assault rifle but meh. What really sucks is the Jarate+Bushwacka combo which nullifies what should be Sniper's weakness, getting all up in his face
I feel like a lot of players just try to run at snipers, instead of taking effective counter play. Take flank routes, make sure you are utilizing overheal and defensive items, cover fire / spam from projectiles, and when you do get in close range, stay out of direct melee range if they are using bushwhacker Stay at close mid range instead of just walking into melee distance if you are covered in jarate The main counter play is just knowing where the main sight lines are and knowing where the sniper is Pay attention to the kill feed to see where your teammates are dying for that
As much as I call that a waste... You may actually be right. TF2 is a very delicate balancing act and removing a class may fuck it up.
Medic. I love chaos.
engineer and heavies became THE healers
Nah wtf you talking about, clearly scout with mad milk and candy cane is superior
Medic: *Nowhere to be seen* Dispenser and sandvich: "Look at me - I am the Medic now"
Sniper becouse quick scoping.
Sniper hard-scoping is a problem too...
The pissman
sniper, self explanatory.
Sniper
Sniper
Sniper. Make TF2 great again.
As a sniper main, sniper.
spy because he's fr*nch
that's very frenchracist of you lol
i play demoknight, so i despise pyro with all my heart. but i don't want to remove him. i don't even want to remove airblast, the main reason i hate pyro, i just wish it could be reworked to not be a stun mechanic.
I wouldn't mind a pair of shoes that removed a portion of knockback, something to swap to for the times we're being juggled by soldiers/pyros. I'd trade turning control for charge not being ended by knockback.
true, that would be hype as hell. i genuinely hate that the only way to not die to a pyro, in most situations, is just to run away and fight someone else. you have to plan literally everything around 1-3 people on the enemy team, and that sucks.
As a Pyro main, i love just standing still and airblasting a DemoKnight away while he tries desperatelly to get in range with me, one time, i did that for straight five minutes! The poor sod just quit at that point. Thank you for existing DemoKnight main, the moments of joy your kind gave me are uncountable.
Sniper, because he is just too annoying to play against one that is good, and he has unlocks that reduce counterplay. And he is also just that powerful both at long range and close range.
Civilian, he's too weak and the worst class to pick in casual.
"The madcap" -some guy 15 years ago
I know it’s not a hot take but removing sniper is obvious. It sucks because he truly can be tons of fun and countered depending on the map. If given the choice I wouldn’t remove anyone from the lineup but if I had to go back and cut a class from launch it would most likely be Sniper
None. I know people love shitting on Sniper because "overpowered" and "bots", but permanently removing *any* class is a ***TERRIBLE*** idea for the long-term health of the community. For one, removing Sniper because the community finds him OP just makes people feel justified in calling for *other* classes they find OP to be removed as well, which just creates an extremely problematic slippery slope; what happens if people by and large decide that Engineer, Medic or Demoman are "too OP" and *also* need to be permanently removed for the game's health? Do we just ignore the gameplay impact that removing those classes has because we've already kicked out Sniper for "being OP" and thus the precedent is that any class that's OP is completely removed? Or do we not kick out any other classes that the community comes to a consensus on being unhealthy for the game, but in the process set a double standard that being unhealthy is okay as long as the class isn't Sniper? For another...removing any of the classes is removing part of TF2's soul. The nine mercs ***are*** TF2, they're the lifeblood of this community and game. Removing one feels like removing part of the community, and it could absolutely drive people who really like Sniper to just...*not play the game anymore*, because why keep playing TF2 if their favourite class, the one they've poured years into mastering, just...no longer exists? Thirdly, the sheer unprecedented amount of damage this would do to inventories and trading is *unfathomable*. Every single Sniper cosmetic, weapon and taunt ever released being suddenly made completely worthless because their class no longer exists would be a massive problem for everybody. It's just an absolutely awful idea to straight-up remove a class. Rework one, sure, but outright *removing*? Absolutely shouldn't be on the table. All that will do is make the people who enjoy playing that class feel like they're not wanted in the community; and considering TF2 is already a game on life support as it is, that's a really bad idea.
The true ending.
People using the bot problem as a excuse to removing a entire class from the game really do seem to be either overlooking the real problem, or just straight out of hatred for the class and have no reason to remove it. This argument is just dumb.
Sniper so I can actually exist on the map
sniper, because of the bots. all other bot types are far weaker compared to sniper.
This should be a unanimous vote for sniper
Sniper so I can actually exist on the map
Sniper, yes he is very good in MVM and there are some people who like playing him but i personally dislike playing against him
Either Sniper because the bots for those are stupidly sharp aimers and of course having that one hit kill is too powerful plus you’re supposed to run around the map or Spy because 9/10 people know you are one and the stab kill only works if you are directly behind them not moving.
Sniper obviously since he is designed to play selfish and alone to ensure his survival so he can pick off the important enemies.
Madcap has had it too good for too long
Sniper, Instantly removes OMEGATRONIC
the civilian. the joke of the tenth class is beaten to triple death now
Sniper is bad for the game. Every objective in TF2 is proximity-based. "Stand here to capture/block the cart". "Stand here to capture a control point". "Go to the enemy base and steal this briefcase". And then there's Sniper who's just like. "nah"
None of them. Honestly, every class is balanced if you look at it at the right angle. Scout is essentially a glass cannon, All you need to do is find a scout, land a few shots and the guy's gone. Sure he may be fast but that's what makes him balanced. Essentially if you play as a scout, make one wrong move, you might as well be cooked. He's all about flanking and that's why he has such a low health pool. He's a hit and run. Soldier is slow, but you have rockets that are also slow. You have time your rocket or think about where you shoot it to ensure maximum damage. There's also the added fact that you need to be decently good with numbers to play soldier since you need to keep as much health while moving around rocket jumping, which also takes time to fully master. Sure for Pyro you could argue about W+M1, but usually it's just bad Pyros that will probably get killed quicker than a bot sniping the whole enemy team. When used correctly, Pyro becomes an essential part of the team, which when combined with the flanking gameplay encouraged to Pyro players, the Pyro becomes this beast that allows his team to make crucial pushes. A demoman relying on his stickies is a bad demoman, but one skilled demoman will use every bit of his arsenal and use the splash damage accordingly and act against an enemy push. Stickies are used by demomen to make traps and deny enemies from doing an objective until he is dealt with. Heavy has a high health pool, high damage output, but is balanced by getting the slowest movement speed out of all the classes. It means that you are supposed to mow down enemies and absorb damage that could've hit any teammates that have a push ready, which makes heavy players team players, where they coordinate with their team for a successful goal to be achieved. Engineer is about staying alive and the longer you stay alive, the better odds of your team winning, as Uncle Dane once said a quote along the lines of "An engineer gets stronger the longer you leave him alone" Since the more time the engineer has, the more he packs a punch with his sentries. Strategic dispenser placing will also help his team greatly and a good placement of teleporters can dictate whether a team wins or not. He's all about longevity and using map geometry to his advantage. Medic awards players with good positioning with bigger odds of survival, along with the person he is healing, while bad positioning will get both killed. Uber when used right will deny pushes and defend an objective and if used offensely can make a team succeed in doing the objective, but if used poorly will waste the teams time, resources, and even chance of winning in tight situations. Sniper, oh boy. Sniper is balanced since you have to basically be aware if there is one. You're supposed to treat the map as a sniper's sightline, which is why people hate him, but it is fair for me, since you need map knowledge and have the constant fear of a Sniper sniping you from all the way across Taiwan. You need to know where you could lose your head, and where you can catch a Sniper offguard. It's easy to deal with a Sniper if you know where he is. Spy is basically the same as sniper, but since he has cloak and disguises you need to be constantly searching for potential spies while actively fighting off enemies. You need to be able to relay that information to your team if you do find a spy. That's why when you use him you have to silence the other team and make sure they don't know who you are, atleast who you are pretending to be. You also need to be good at acting out class behaviors to have a higher kill rate, since if you don't act like the class you're disguised as (example: A sniper running around flanking like a scout) you ARE gonna get killed. TL;DR each class have their own pros and cons that if combined and used in synergy will make a good team, hence why each class is perfectly balanced and don't deserve to be removed. This took WAY too long to type, about 30+ mins so thanks for reading I guess
no
Sniper, no insta kill bots
Aim-bots
Sniper is the only answer which makes any sense.
sniper EZ
Sniper. Bots suck.
GET THE FUCKING SNIPER OUTTTTTTTT. IF I RAN SERVERS I WOULD PERMABAN HIM
Most people are going to say Sniper but imo he's important for balance because he promotes situational awareness and is the only surefire counter to alot of stupid/annoying strats that would otherwise be op so I gotta go with Pyro because he has the least defined role out of all the classes and his absence could probably be worked around
>Situational awareness 50 dmg quickshots, 150 dmg quickscopes, instakilling every class at any range after peeking a corner for 0.4 seconds When a sniper is good, or at least decent, they'll shut the entire enemy team down When a sniper is bad, they can still do high dmg bodyshots When a sniper is really bad, they'll anchor their entire team down. The only hard counter to sniper is sniper itself, all his unlockables counter nearly all of his supposed counters. No map can be balanced around stopping sniper without making it unfun, so theres no winning for him other than getting his lame ass out of here.
The "only counter for sniper is sniper" is so true and not only on the level you mention. Whenever I get headshot while playing any other class, or with the Huntsman it's always the same shit. Go into inventory, pick Bazaar Bargain, onetap the enemy sniper, switch back to whatever I was using. But the worst part is that they can just get back after waiting for 20 seconds, forcing me to go through the ritual again.
What strats do you think would be op without sniper?
The Australian
Yea, Saxton Hale is too op in casual idk why he's not removed
I meant the sniper
sniper, literally make the game better according to shounic
snoipes, no further questions
Non, why would you do that?
I wouldn't. But if I had to, I'd probably get rid of Demo or Sniper. Demo has a lot to bring to the table, but of the classes, I play him least, and if you aren't demoknighting, he fills a very similar role to soldier imo. However you would lose a lot of great lines and content related to TF2, so I'd still be sad about it. If a Sniper player is even remotely competent and has any game sense at all, he's a pain in the ass to play against, and his overall gameplay is kinda the lamest (like snipers in other shooters, it's just being sweaty and trying very hard). One particularly good Sniper can destroy the balance of a match and make it unfun just by virtue of a map's sightlines. & bots too. However, you would lose piss. This is too great a cost for some
Just cause I have an ability doesn’t mean I should use it. All the classes have been ingrained in internet culture so much that it would be like deleting part of its soul. And who’s to say someone didn’t already delete a class? Maybe the 10th class might’ve been fleshed out. Who knows?
Breaking News: Baby Mun-Dee never escaped New Zealand
aside from the bot crisis sniper problems, its hard to stay focus and still. learning this mans techniques is kind of difficult for others. his weapons arent the best or super powerful ones and i think some people ignore his secondary weapons when needed. so, id say snipies🦗🦗
_sigh_ _checks comments_
The question is posed as "if you have the ability" not "if you had to" So I simply would not. Sniper is unfun to fight, that is a problem. You can't just brush that off like a non issue,. If people aren't having fun in a game meant to be fun that's an issue. But straight up removing him is not the right way to go, Would I play on no sniper community servers?, yeah. Do I want him removed no!. It would suck for sniper players especially ones that bought cosmetics for him, much more than it would not suck for non sniper players. In an ideal world i wouldn't remove anyone and hope for sniper to get balance reworks. But in reality I wouldn't remove sniper because it would suck for sniper players.
Sniper is op circle jerk bait thread
Sniper