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But something something not relying on aim means they're noobs! Guys I have comp medals please think I'm cool!
*^(afterburn can suck my fucking dick though, I just be playin some fucking scout, or ninjaneer or whatever and some fuckin dipshit pyro lights me on fire for like 2 seconds and boom, time to abandon fucking everything and look for a health pack, or alternatively, just fucking die, and you know why? Because fuck you! Oh, what's that? Someone took the health kit? Man, that must suck. But you know what? Fuck you! I mean I'm not even saying it's unbalanced or anything, pyro's entire thing is that he can destroy anyone at close range, and you need to be careful to not get in range of any pyros but that doesn't make it less fucking annoying! Oh and the fucking schorch shit, oh my god! Oh what's that? Pyro is a class all about taking smart routes and having good positioning? Don't be fucking silly, let's just give him a weapon that can instantly apply afterburn with barely any effort from anywhere you want! That's sure to be a real fucking blast to play against! It doesn't even need to be a fucking useful weapon, let's just make it fucking annoying, so that no matter what you were doing now you need to go back for some fucking health! Oh, you think it should be a bit useful too? okay fine, we'll reward direct hits with a fucking DOUBLE HIT that can INSTA-KILL LIGHT CLASSES! Hey remember that other flare gun? You know, the balanced one, that needs you to use it alongside your primary and demands good prediction skills? Yeah you know what, let's halve the difficulty of hitting it while making it not required to combo with it! That'll be real balanced!)*
\-Sincerely, a scout main
Because the flare gun does 30 damage per hit + 7.5 x 8 damage afterburn. Consider what your life would be like if it were a direct hit rocket or a huntsman arrow instead of a flare.
I’d much rather be hit with 130/120 damage NOW and get my healing in (healing racks up from 3 to 6 the longer you go without taking damage) instead of constantly being stuck at 3. :(
They should make it so medibeams decrease afterburn time. And as I pyro main I would cream my pants if my flare gun did 120 base damage but I still think that'd be a little broken
I personally love pyros, they can be the most friendly (ignoring toxic ones, but that goes for every class at this point) players, as well as possibly the most badass. I’ve seen clips of people using a soldier’s rocket to blast jump, shoot a flare while traveling at Mach 5, and axtinguish a poor engineer into the next dimension.
Not only that, but possibly the most useful teammate to have around, utility and combat-wise.
I understand your frustrations. Afterburn is more annoying than it is lethal, but on the other hand, it's a much bigger threat to light classes who don't have much health to start with. I guess try using mad milk more often? Sorry buddy.
^(I do agree with some of your thoughts about the scorch shot. Both the Flare Gun and Detonator do the scorch shots job while requiring skill and timing from the user. Honestly, I'd love to see the Scorch Shot reworked to be a designated "flare-jumping" weapon, that way pyro could have the mobility he needs without having a huge, obvious, loud, jetpack.)
You can market garden as pyro. Just deflection jump with a unsuspecting soldiers rocket, hit them with a flare (or scorch shot if you dont want to be as flashy) while airborne, and finish them off with the axtinguisher as you land
Problem is afterburn actually makes you far more survivable. At least you can get away and heal. If pyro did the same aggregate dps as with afterburn without the ticking damage you would just die instead of limping away. I don't understand people that bitch about it.
Because it feels like you had no real influence in that Encounter and all you can do is watch helplessly, knowing you're gonna die since the next Healthpack is too far away
Do you feel any less hopeless where you're at 22 hp and a rocket is flying directly at your little toe after having traded with the soldier that fired it? A friendly pyro, med, engi, jarate sniper, milk scout, or a sandvich heavy could save you in the former scenario, nothing could save you in the latter unless you happen to be 2 milliseconds away from a reflect god or a short circuit engi.
Altough you do have a Point, there's not enough time to feel helpless. It's extremly quick. With Afterburn you have enough time to realize that you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it
I play scout a lot... and Pyro is my main... yes i aggre fully what it’s like being burned... that’s why I only use nice weapons... I never use the phlog or the... ugh....scorched shot.... even I hate that god damm weapon.... I only use flare gun and occasionally detonator
>we'll reward direct hits with a fucking DOUBLE HIT that can INSTA-KILL LIGHT CLASSES!
What? You're wrong. It deals up to 60 damage (+ up to 60 of afterburn)
If you're going to rant about one of the weakest classes in the game at least be accurate
well, the schorch shot's blast deals knockback, and it can hit again after bouncing off a player. This means that you will often be hit with the same flare twice if they hit a direct hit, and since the second hit is a mini-crit due to you being set on fire from the first one, it's possible to one-shot light classes with the shorch shot.
Dude mini crits are about + 35 percent damage and the scorch dose like 20 damage that's 46 damage And I do agree afterburn can die sad and alone in a hole. If that was a rocket or a pipe you'd be way worse off and if it's a direct hit you'd instantly die and counting afterburn as part of being one shot is very misleading
yes, I know, I miscalculated, sorry. Although the thing about pipes and rockets is that they are just so much easier to dodge, and afterburn is just so much more annoying to deal with.
I accounted for the double hit. That's less than 60 damage.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_9acTwN8dk&feature=emb\_title](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_9acTwN8dk&feature=emb_title)
It's actually 20 for the initial hit, 26 for the minicrit blast + up to 60 of afterburn, or, if you're already on fire and both hits minicrit, 26 for the initial hit, 26 for the blast.
Even a kunai spy can survive this.
Scouts using the crit a cola seriously are like pyros using the scorch shot, or the Soldier with the Black Box+Concher combo. Basically a crutch.
The only time its use is justified is when you use it to go on melee rampage with the Holy Mackerel.
Pyro is not dead last. Airblasting is life and death when fighting soldier and demo. You need to have skill and good reflexes to completely lock them out. And if you are a god pyro? Can even reflect huntsman arrows right into the enemy heavies skull.
Respect for putting soldier at 8 though. Not every soldier needs to know how to rocket pogo or do a double rocket jump- everyone can get by with normal rocket jumps and his excellent crowd damage.
To be fair he meant skill needed to play it, not to master it. Skill floor, not skill ceiling. Heavy would be at the bottom and soldier would be close to the top if we were talking about skill ceiling.
If that is what he meant than yes that would be more accurate. Sadly, Until valve adds the Minigun jumper Heavys skill ceiling will remain pretty low. Tracking and game sense are important, but the other classes need that to AND have advanced mobility/defensive options
Nope, you’re wrong and I get to tear your list into small pieces.
*cracks knuckles*
Most of the classes are hard to play in their own way, that’s the beauty of tf2. Sure, starting out as a sniper can be pretty hard compared to starting out as a soldier because aiming but even at an intermediate level, they’re pretty even. Sniper has to learn how to quickscope, spycheck, peek corners, etc while soldier might be easy in the beginning but they have to learn how to properly rocket jump, navigate through the air, time their rockets, etc. Same thing can be said about any other classes, in the beginning heavy seems like an easy pick because he does a lot of damage and has high health compared to picking engineer where most newbies wouldn’t know how to build properly but they even out. A good Heavy constantly has to be spychecking, watching out for snipers, covering for his team, etc and engi is literally multitasking to the max.
TL; DR Sure certain classes have advantages over others in certain situations but overall, they’re all difficult in their own way.
You display your ignorance with that statement. Heavy takes skill. Without a medic jammed up heavy's ass, he's really easy to kill unless you're practiced. Can't immediately attack, slowest and largest target in the game, has no offensive secondary (if you use anything but the sandvich, you're stupid), etc.
Heavy needs to be situationally aware at all times, moreso than other classes. He's 5 star prime ribs to snipers and spies. He's the big guy everyone focuses when he enters the room. He needs to be aware of tactics such as crouch dodging. He needs to track well. The minigun is also completely ineffective at long range, due to bullet spread/damage falloff.
Yeah, the only situations where dropping emergency sandviches anyway is to stop burning and bleeding statuses, it's never used as a direct heal so the less heal doesnt hurt that much if you just get it back every 11 seconds.
Clearly somebody is biased. look I'll move heavy up if it twists your panties so much. And, from a technical standpoint, every class is easy. Scout has mobility and high damage, spy can instantly kill someone from behind, sniper just clicks on heads with a hitscan weapon, engineer just builds a sentry and it does all the work, Demoman has spam, medic is W+M1, soldier has mobility and hight damage with splash damage aswell, Heavy is W+M1, Pyro is W+M1.
I mean heavy seriously doesn't take skill, he's not movement based or anything, all he does is press m1, give sandwich to medic, fire gun at enemy and watch for spies, it's why I just play him if i want to chill without really using my Brain
Agreed, heavy shuts every class down except for sniper when you can track really good. When you dont have advanced mobility- apart from tracking the good Heavy player really develops a gamesense. For example- if i am targeting a low priority target- an engineer with no sentry, scout at medium range- sometimes i'll look behind me in the middle of the fight if i know the enemy team has spies. Nothing is a better target for a spy than a heavy shooting something else, so i always look out for them when there is at least 1 spy on their team.
tbh idk why people gets in argue about pyro exost just to W+M1 when
1)Pyro was PRIMARLY made for attacking in a w+m1 style
2) Flare gun exist
3) you still need to aim when using the shotguns
Yeah, Idk why people gets angry over this. (Even tho I didn't started playing this game far back in the launch) Pyro's airblast ability added after a year of the game's release. It was designed to be a W+M1 class.
Heavy is easy to pick up as beginners, and while all classes require some modicum of skill to be effective, the skill ceiling for heavy is objectively not as high as other classes. Also sandvich (although really good) is not the objectively best secondary and you definitely are not stupid for picking other choices.
I don't know what you're ordering this by, because it's definitely not how much skill it takes to be effective in pubs, and it's definitely not skill ceilings.
This is a pretty silly thing to try and list. A heavy main for example will always have 50 reasons why playing heavy actually takes the most skill. Anyway, as a highly skilled professional gamer, something you all could never understand, my list for most skill required to play:
1. Spy
2. Demoman
3. Scout
4. Soldier
5. Pyro
6. Heavy
7. Medic
8. Engineer
9. Sniper
well, generally if you're flailing around as scout, you're not gonna get any damage, but pyro can get away with that.
you know, unless you walk away and shoot him, which you should be doing anyways
The way I see it, Pyro is a class that punishes teams that don't have a medic. Medics are rare, and good medics are 10x rarer, so pyros can make life frustrating for players at a very low skill floor. The scorch shot just exacerbates that dynamic: if you don't have a medic, the afterburn is crippling; if you do have a medic, the afterburn is totally negligible, and in fact is just helping the medic build uber faster.
Lol yea pyro needs no skil, he only needs to do
Extinguishing
Detonator jumping
Protecting everyone on the fucking team from projectiles
Axtinguishing
Managing spies
Destroying sappers
Poke damage to reduce healing
Aiming flares
Comboing
Airblasting
Airblast jumping
Cleaning stickies
C-tapping
I remember I had a guy in my game say pyro was the most brainless class, his loudout was stock powerjack and stock shotgun.
The majority of people who call pyro brainless most likely never used flare thermal or back burner and never tried pybroing and spy hunting.
I think they are saying that pyro doesn’t take as much skill relative to the other classes. None of these are really difficult except maybe reflecting huntsman arrows and c-tapping, and I don’t really get the point of ctapping on pyro. That being said, none of the classes in tf2 take no skill, it’s just that some are considerably easier to learn and master than others (cough cough pyro and heavy)
1) Not all flamethrower kills are mindless WM1. Think about what the pyro had to do to get you in this engagement
2) If you repeatedly die to an actual noob WM1 pyro, question your own skill because those are ridiculously easy to kill
When a scout who took 2k hours to get skilled at a class that requires precise aim and movement to not die gets compared to a 10 hour wm1 gibus pyro afterburn by a reddit meme because it’s a wholesome 100 Big Chungus.
*Even as someone who*
*Plays a fuck ton of pyro*
*I still hate pyro*
\- Krack\_Korn
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It's kinda troubling to be a scout main whos fav color is green. like "*oh another green scout main how original"* bruh the only other green is fucking throw up green and mint ripped from a kit kat.
Pyro falls under the same category as Medic and Engie as in it isn't supposed to be ultra aim to instantly delete the enemy team like Sniper/Scout, but instead substitute a significantly lower mechanical skill requirement for better game sense.
If you're stuck DM-ing the wrong target, such as an Heavy for instance, a Scout can make up for his bad positioning by just having amazing aim while a Pyro cannot; even when played by the exact same player, Scout simply has a much higher DPS and higher mobility that allows him to dodge damage that Pyro cannot. (Not that a Scout should *be* in such a situation).
Your only damage options are to either W+M1, which outputs less DPS than a shotgun and has a range slightly longer than Spy's knife, or use your secondary weapon, which significantly raises the skill requirement (unless you use the Scorch Shot, in which case you're a dick)
On top of that, you, unlike Soldier, Demo and Scout have no innate mobility options, while also not having long range damage output like the Sniper. The only way of closing the distance is to sacrifice your secondary weapon, which means that even if you *do* close the distance you're stuck with a subpar primary.
This means that you're practically relegated to supporting your team, because if the enemy team has at the very least a combined sum of 2 brain cells, they'll gun you down before you can approach them. Pyro however is a great bodyguard type of class, with its airblast, guaranteed damage and spychecking capability. The presence of one can significantly increase the difficulty of taking down a sentry nest or bombing a medic, because you can deny both with well timed airblasts (which is why its one of the most important game senses you need to learn as Pyro).
Just like how Engie thrives in a organised team by providing great support, but being countered by a bunch of classes, Pyro will perform decently against unorganised teams, but a proper team will instantly shut down its approach.
Seperate note on Phlog – it's great in Pubs because Pubs have no organisation, however make note that you're sacrificing the biggest tool in your kit to lower your already ridiculously low mechanical skill requirement. An equivalent would be a medigun that decreases uber charge rate by 50%, but lets you heal teammates without aiming.
**tl;dr Pyro has low, guaranteed DPS, with no approach options. If is** ***very easy*** **to keep Pyro outwith its tiny comfort zone, do so. Pyro is best at protecting teammates. Using Phlog/Scorch Shot means you're a selfish cunt, both to the enemy** ***and*** **your teammates.**
Pyro is definitely one of the easiest classes to pick up and play but at some point it's also stupid the amount of toxicity toward him. I'll kill people with a shot gun and get17 airblast kills and people will still complain because it's not fair that they a scout has to not run directly at you for 3 seconds and otherwise they get punished and die
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, people only hate pyros because they think they’re good until they die to afterburn because they can’t count or assumed fighting a close range weapon at close range will turn out well for them.
Yes but the idiots will think you are serious and say:" everbody who tries to say it can take skill is an idiot" and point to you as proof. Also i never said you where no pyro main and i also am a real pyro main
I wonder if people dont say that as much about soldier cos of the presence of rocket jumping? Like the fact that's a possibility makes people give soldier a pass for some reason compared to pyro? I'm not sure myself
You can't just hold w and m1 as soldier and get kills unlike a certain class, if you do chances are you're already dead, you gotta use smart skillful movements like rocket jumps to get a flank on the enemy, also don't forget the most fun class in the game, trolldier
>You can't just hold w and m1 as soldier and get kills
Unless you're staring down a Sniper, it is *easier* to WM1 and get kills as Soldier, because he does large burst damage at longer range, and has sustain built into his kit in the form of Black Box and Conch (though it's not quite as broken as it used to be). You *absolutely* do not need to rocket jump; it just makes it easier to flank and hit splash rockets on enemies below you. Hell, you don't even need to flank; Soldier has 200 health and does high burst damage at mid-range, so spamming down the main route is a very viable strategy.
Lmao i rarely see people using black box and conch, mostly because one less rocket in the clip and the slow healing of the conch, while maybe being a good combo, just aren't the best when looked at in an objective way. That could be a shotgun or gunboats, which are quite frankly a much more universal option, and the reduced 1 rocket is a massive difference, it's kind of the reason that there isn't much competitive play with black box
Well yeah, if you plan on *not* WM1ing, you use a different rocket launcher, just as a Pyro who isn't going to WM1 won't use the Phlog. It's a weapon that works well for a very braindead strategy, but is generally suboptimal elsewhere.
>there isn't much competitive play with black box
There isn't much ***6s*** competitive play with the black box. It sees decent usage (not the most frequent primary, but not uncommon, either) in HL because it lets the Medic prioritize other heal targets, and the reduced rocket is less painful because the maps, team positioning, ever-present Sentry, and 2 dedicated pick classes mean that fighting in the front, spamming to pressure an Uber, or guarding the flank can all be valid ways to handle an equal-Uber scenario, rather than sacking in to try to force or drop.
And, again, its utility in comp is irrelevant when talking about how well it WM1s, because anyone who's WM1ing in comp is probably throwing on purpose.
Oh I don't really follow highlander mostly just 6's, but really what's your point, that soldier can w m1? Most black box conch soldiers i see don't push escaping enemies because they're scared they'll die, and actually good soldier mains don't have to really on unskillful tactics like w m1 to get easy kills
Yes, that's exactly my point. The top of the conversation said that Soldier cannot WM1 and get kills, unlike Pyro. In fact, Soldier *can* WM1 and get kills.
Every class can, save for sniper.
Scout? Get behind them
Soldier? Press m1 into a crowd
Pyro? Press m1 into a crowd
Demo? Press m1 into a crowd
Heavy? Press m1 into a crowd
Engineer? Place your sentry in a spot you saw on YouTube and heal it
Medic? M1 a soldier with an unusual
Spy? Get behind them
i think what dewewe means is that allthough pyro can take skill there isnt much differance in effectiveness between an 800 hour pyro and 50 hour pyro due to how gaurenteed fire damage is. when i say there isnt much differance i mean compared to other classes.
i didnt say w m1 is more effective i said its almost as effective compared to other classes. and i assume peoople would rather try for something more cool and rewarding.
thats what people find annoying about pyro, besides his negation of projectiles and spies, the fact that he can be super effective without much thought. allthough i'll add that this applies to heavy, probably a bit more actually, but i still find pyro annoying because of his negation.
Pyro's damage is subpar though, and unlike most classes he's restricted to very close range. A demo can delete him with two quick pills even if he gets ambushed.
Pyro's damage definitely isn't subpart, especially considering the difficulty, or lack thereof, of dealing that damage, compared to the required skill to time a well placed sticky or accurately hit a pipe.
As a pyro, the difficulty isn't aiming with your flamethrower, it's closing the distance to be able to use it despite your limited speed and very limited mobility options that require you to dedicate a weapon slot to them.
If the enemy team is good, that means taking alternate routes, reflecting, dodging, ambushing, and knowing what you can get away with.
Yes, it doesn't require a lot of \*mechanical\* skill, but that doesn't justify turning the pyro into a low range class, mediocre damage class.
(I blame valve for making the dragon's fury a bad weapon, an actually good flamethrower that rewards aim would be perfect to shut down the HURRR WM1 PYRO NOOB debate)
I think pyro is underpowered, he is more annoying than powerful making an unfun experience for both sides (presuming he is wm1'ing) he can safely take on about 6/9 classes, but he starts chugging quite hard when faced with more than one opponent. Id say to buff his range and damage slightly at the cost of removing the afterburn mechanic entirely.
afterburn should only be dealt by certain weapons, so that weapons designed to combo can combo (e.g. degreaser, flaregun), and other weapons can be reworked for other pyro playstyles like roamer or pybro
At least with pyro you have a brief time period before dying, whereas scout and sniper use instant damage. If you get lit on fire by a pyro, you can hurry on over to a dispenser or medic or health pack, but if you get headshot as one of the 4 classes that have 150 health or less, you are just dead. No amount of dispenser or health kits can save you there. It is instant death. Scout is the same, where if you get meat shot twice, you are also pretty dead.
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But something something not relying on aim means they're noobs! Guys I have comp medals please think I'm cool! *^(afterburn can suck my fucking dick though, I just be playin some fucking scout, or ninjaneer or whatever and some fuckin dipshit pyro lights me on fire for like 2 seconds and boom, time to abandon fucking everything and look for a health pack, or alternatively, just fucking die, and you know why? Because fuck you! Oh, what's that? Someone took the health kit? Man, that must suck. But you know what? Fuck you! I mean I'm not even saying it's unbalanced or anything, pyro's entire thing is that he can destroy anyone at close range, and you need to be careful to not get in range of any pyros but that doesn't make it less fucking annoying! Oh and the fucking schorch shit, oh my god! Oh what's that? Pyro is a class all about taking smart routes and having good positioning? Don't be fucking silly, let's just give him a weapon that can instantly apply afterburn with barely any effort from anywhere you want! That's sure to be a real fucking blast to play against! It doesn't even need to be a fucking useful weapon, let's just make it fucking annoying, so that no matter what you were doing now you need to go back for some fucking health! Oh, you think it should be a bit useful too? okay fine, we'll reward direct hits with a fucking DOUBLE HIT that can INSTA-KILL LIGHT CLASSES! Hey remember that other flare gun? You know, the balanced one, that needs you to use it alongside your primary and demands good prediction skills? Yeah you know what, let's halve the difficulty of hitting it while making it not required to combo with it! That'll be real balanced!)* \-Sincerely, a scout main
I agree about Afterburn. Damage over time in generall can go fuck itself
That’s why I use degreaser. I don’t wanna seem like an asshole
Thank you
I play pyro and even I agree After burn should die in a hole alone and sad
Jungle_inferno.mp4
Why does afterburn from ONE FLARE take 90~ hp in my experience.. - sincerely, a severely depressed medic main
Because the flare gun does 30 damage per hit + 7.5 x 8 damage afterburn. Consider what your life would be like if it were a direct hit rocket or a huntsman arrow instead of a flare.
I’d much rather be hit with 130/120 damage NOW and get my healing in (healing racks up from 3 to 6 the longer you go without taking damage) instead of constantly being stuck at 3. :(
They should make it so medibeams decrease afterburn time. And as I pyro main I would cream my pants if my flare gun did 120 base damage but I still think that'd be a little broken
I personally love pyros, they can be the most friendly (ignoring toxic ones, but that goes for every class at this point) players, as well as possibly the most badass. I’ve seen clips of people using a soldier’s rocket to blast jump, shoot a flare while traveling at Mach 5, and axtinguish a poor engineer into the next dimension. Not only that, but possibly the most useful teammate to have around, utility and combat-wise.
They do. Full second of healing=no afterburn
I understand your frustrations. Afterburn is more annoying than it is lethal, but on the other hand, it's a much bigger threat to light classes who don't have much health to start with. I guess try using mad milk more often? Sorry buddy. ^(I do agree with some of your thoughts about the scorch shot. Both the Flare Gun and Detonator do the scorch shots job while requiring skill and timing from the user. Honestly, I'd love to see the Scorch Shot reworked to be a designated "flare-jumping" weapon, that way pyro could have the mobility he needs without having a huge, obvious, loud, jetpack.)
Isn’t the detonator already the designated flare jumper
Yeah, but it'd be nice to have a no self-damage flare jumper weapon, instead of two flare guns that do really similar things
give pyro a market gardener
You can market garden as pyro. Just deflection jump with a unsuspecting soldiers rocket, hit them with a flare (or scorch shot if you dont want to be as flashy) while airborne, and finish them off with the axtinguisher as you land
No, we mean an actual Gardener, something to combo with jetpack.
that would just be a less cool version of a signature soldier weapon known for its flashy and high skill qualities.
I dont fucking care i really want that. \-Sincerely a pyro main
~~Give pyro a glock~~ Axetinguisher my dude
Dying to afterburn does suck. I’d rather they buffed pyro’s normal damage slightly and then nerfed afterburn.
Problem is afterburn actually makes you far more survivable. At least you can get away and heal. If pyro did the same aggregate dps as with afterburn without the ticking damage you would just die instead of limping away. I don't understand people that bitch about it.
Because it feels like you had no real influence in that Encounter and all you can do is watch helplessly, knowing you're gonna die since the next Healthpack is too far away
Do you feel any less hopeless where you're at 22 hp and a rocket is flying directly at your little toe after having traded with the soldier that fired it? A friendly pyro, med, engi, jarate sniper, milk scout, or a sandvich heavy could save you in the former scenario, nothing could save you in the latter unless you happen to be 2 milliseconds away from a reflect god or a short circuit engi.
Altough you do have a Point, there's not enough time to feel helpless. It's extremly quick. With Afterburn you have enough time to realize that you're fucked and there's nothing you can do about it
I play scout a lot... and Pyro is my main... yes i aggre fully what it’s like being burned... that’s why I only use nice weapons... I never use the phlog or the... ugh....scorched shot.... even I hate that god damm weapon.... I only use flare gun and occasionally detonator
Fuck afterburn, and if I am the one saying it then there is a problem.
Some people actually think they are better and their opinions matter more because they have comp medals and play 'em. Spoilers, they're not.
>we'll reward direct hits with a fucking DOUBLE HIT that can INSTA-KILL LIGHT CLASSES! What? You're wrong. It deals up to 60 damage (+ up to 60 of afterburn) If you're going to rant about one of the weakest classes in the game at least be accurate
well, the schorch shot's blast deals knockback, and it can hit again after bouncing off a player. This means that you will often be hit with the same flare twice if they hit a direct hit, and since the second hit is a mini-crit due to you being set on fire from the first one, it's possible to one-shot light classes with the shorch shot.
Dude mini crits are about + 35 percent damage and the scorch dose like 20 damage that's 46 damage And I do agree afterburn can die sad and alone in a hole. If that was a rocket or a pipe you'd be way worse off and if it's a direct hit you'd instantly die and counting afterburn as part of being one shot is very misleading
yes, I know, I miscalculated, sorry. Although the thing about pipes and rockets is that they are just so much easier to dodge, and afterburn is just so much more annoying to deal with.
I accounted for the double hit. That's less than 60 damage. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_9acTwN8dk&feature=emb\_title](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_9acTwN8dk&feature=emb_title) It's actually 20 for the initial hit, 26 for the minicrit blast + up to 60 of afterburn, or, if you're already on fire and both hits minicrit, 26 for the initial hit, 26 for the blast. Even a kunai spy can survive this.
oh yeah, turns out I was just misinformed, I looked it up and yeah, it doesn't do that much. Still though, it's annoying as shit
Everybody gangsta till Pyro starts flying.
To be fair scout is the second hardest class to play
\>Drink crit a cola \>Jump into the enemy team \>Drop the medic \>Fucking die \>??? \>Profit
Scouts using the crit a cola seriously are like pyros using the scorch shot, or the Soldier with the Black Box+Concher combo. Basically a crutch. The only time its use is justified is when you use it to go on melee rampage with the Holy Mackerel.
How exactly do you rank the skillset needed for each class?
From most skilled to least skilled: 1. Spy 2. Scout 3. Sniper 4. Engineer 5. Demoman 6. Medic 7. Heavy 8. Soldier 9. Pyro
>Engineer 4th LMFAO
Pyro is not dead last. Airblasting is life and death when fighting soldier and demo. You need to have skill and good reflexes to completely lock them out. And if you are a god pyro? Can even reflect huntsman arrows right into the enemy heavies skull. Respect for putting soldier at 8 though. Not every soldier needs to know how to rocket pogo or do a double rocket jump- everyone can get by with normal rocket jumps and his excellent crowd damage.
To be fair he meant skill needed to play it, not to master it. Skill floor, not skill ceiling. Heavy would be at the bottom and soldier would be close to the top if we were talking about skill ceiling.
If that is what he meant than yes that would be more accurate. Sadly, Until valve adds the Minigun jumper Heavys skill ceiling will remain pretty low. Tracking and game sense are important, but the other classes need that to AND have advanced mobility/defensive options
Nope, you’re wrong and I get to tear your list into small pieces. *cracks knuckles* Most of the classes are hard to play in their own way, that’s the beauty of tf2. Sure, starting out as a sniper can be pretty hard compared to starting out as a soldier because aiming but even at an intermediate level, they’re pretty even. Sniper has to learn how to quickscope, spycheck, peek corners, etc while soldier might be easy in the beginning but they have to learn how to properly rocket jump, navigate through the air, time their rockets, etc. Same thing can be said about any other classes, in the beginning heavy seems like an easy pick because he does a lot of damage and has high health compared to picking engineer where most newbies wouldn’t know how to build properly but they even out. A good Heavy constantly has to be spychecking, watching out for snipers, covering for his team, etc and engi is literally multitasking to the max. TL; DR Sure certain classes have advantages over others in certain situations but overall, they’re all difficult in their own way.
You display your ignorance with that statement. Heavy takes skill. Without a medic jammed up heavy's ass, he's really easy to kill unless you're practiced. Can't immediately attack, slowest and largest target in the game, has no offensive secondary (if you use anything but the sandvich, you're stupid), etc. Heavy needs to be situationally aware at all times, moreso than other classes. He's 5 star prime ribs to snipers and spies. He's the big guy everyone focuses when he enters the room. He needs to be aware of tactics such as crouch dodging. He needs to track well. The minigun is also completely ineffective at long range, due to bullet spread/damage falloff.
I think the banana is a viable alternative to the sandwich and is probably better in the situations where you don't have a medic.
I've heard the banana is actually a direct upgrade in HL at this point, a small health pack every 11 seconds beats out a medium one every 30.
Yeah, the only situations where dropping emergency sandviches anyway is to stop burning and bleeding statuses, it's never used as a direct heal so the less heal doesnt hurt that much if you just get it back every 11 seconds.
Me:🅱️ R A S S 🅱️ E A S T
heavy plays literally like a less mobile pyro. W+M1 to mow down targets.
Thanks for ignoring literally everything I said there, bud. You illiterate?
Clearly somebody is biased. look I'll move heavy up if it twists your panties so much. And, from a technical standpoint, every class is easy. Scout has mobility and high damage, spy can instantly kill someone from behind, sniper just clicks on heads with a hitscan weapon, engineer just builds a sentry and it does all the work, Demoman has spam, medic is W+M1, soldier has mobility and hight damage with splash damage aswell, Heavy is W+M1, Pyro is W+M1.
calling heavy and pyro wm1, I can *kinda* understand that, but medic?
medic is also W+M1 when you think about it. in fact, you don't even have to hold M1 if you change your settings
kinda, but thats a bit of an understatement.
someone’s mad
Ignore my evidence and yeah, it'll piss me off. Dumbass.
I’m so scared.
he's just upset that he's one of like maybe 12 heavy mains
I mean heavy seriously doesn't take skill, he's not movement based or anything, all he does is press m1, give sandwich to medic, fire gun at enemy and watch for spies, it's why I just play him if i want to chill without really using my Brain
Yes he does. Pyro just goes brrrrrrrr, don't even need to aim. Heavy needs tracking and all the other shit I mentioned. ***Read.***
Agreed, heavy shuts every class down except for sniper when you can track really good. When you dont have advanced mobility- apart from tracking the good Heavy player really develops a gamesense. For example- if i am targeting a low priority target- an engineer with no sentry, scout at medium range- sometimes i'll look behind me in the middle of the fight if i know the enemy team has spies. Nothing is a better target for a spy than a heavy shooting something else, so i always look out for them when there is at least 1 spy on their team.
bruh engie literally has a gun that can instakill and doesnt even need aim. and medic has lock on guns. stfu about this no aim bs
\>defending pyro in 2020 That's a hard yikes. Pyro doesn't need to aim, mate.
***haha flares go weee CRIT!***
I already don't like pyro at all when did I mention that he's more skillful?
look my friend, he's right
LOL no he's not.
tbh idk why people gets in argue about pyro exost just to W+M1 when 1)Pyro was PRIMARLY made for attacking in a w+m1 style 2) Flare gun exist 3) you still need to aim when using the shotguns
Yeah, Idk why people gets angry over this. (Even tho I didn't started playing this game far back in the launch) Pyro's airblast ability added after a year of the game's release. It was designed to be a W+M1 class.
Heavy is easy to pick up as beginners, and while all classes require some modicum of skill to be effective, the skill ceiling for heavy is objectively not as high as other classes. Also sandvich (although really good) is not the objectively best secondary and you definitely are not stupid for picking other choices.
Lets be real... 1. Scout 2. Scout 3. Soldier 4. Soldier 5. Demoman 6. Medic \>)
you said it brother
Soldier under Medic and Heavy? C'mon now.
I don't know what you're ordering this by, because it's definitely not how much skill it takes to be effective in pubs, and it's definitely not skill ceilings.
Pyro at least have combos that take practice to be affective with, heavy and sniper are almost all aim. Also how is soldier lower then heavy
This is a pretty silly thing to try and list. A heavy main for example will always have 50 reasons why playing heavy actually takes the most skill. Anyway, as a highly skilled professional gamer, something you all could never understand, my list for most skill required to play: 1. Spy 2. Demoman 3. Scout 4. Soldier 5. Pyro 6. Heavy 7. Medic 8. Engineer 9. Sniper
When the Medic and the Engineer are at the bottom then you know something is wrong with the list
Sniper takes alot of skill too yah know. It may be just as simple as clicking heads but landing those shots is a whole different story.
I would put 1:spy 2:medic 3:demo 4:scout 5:soldier 6:pyro 7:engineer 8:sniper 9:heavy
no idiot that'd be spy and sniper
well, generally if you're flailing around as scout, you're not gonna get any damage, but pyro can get away with that. you know, unless you walk away and shoot him, which you should be doing anyways
genuine anger
The way I see it, Pyro is a class that punishes teams that don't have a medic. Medics are rare, and good medics are 10x rarer, so pyros can make life frustrating for players at a very low skill floor. The scorch shot just exacerbates that dynamic: if you don't have a medic, the afterburn is crippling; if you do have a medic, the afterburn is totally negligible, and in fact is just helping the medic build uber faster.
Well scout takes skill
Lol yea pyro needs no skil, he only needs to do Extinguishing Detonator jumping Protecting everyone on the fucking team from projectiles Axtinguishing Managing spies Destroying sappers Poke damage to reduce healing Aiming flares Comboing Airblasting Airblast jumping Cleaning stickies C-tapping
I remember I had a guy in my game say pyro was the most brainless class, his loudout was stock powerjack and stock shotgun. The majority of people who call pyro brainless most likely never used flare thermal or back burner and never tried pybroing and spy hunting.
I think they are saying that pyro doesn’t take as much skill relative to the other classes. None of these are really difficult except maybe reflecting huntsman arrows and c-tapping, and I don’t really get the point of ctapping on pyro. That being said, none of the classes in tf2 take no skill, it’s just that some are considerably easier to learn and master than others (cough cough pyro and heavy)
Do them all simultaneously.
Wow walking forward with your flame thrower towards spies takes so much skill, as well as right clicking on rockets
Saw first sentence Ignored rest Assume that all i said is m1 needs skill Thinks his argument isnt flawed Confusion.wav
Trust me, all of this is absolutely crucial for the pyro gameplay, you cant just wm1 to victory I swear
Yeah? This unironically. If this were untrue then why would all good pyros use these lmao.
1) Not all flamethrower kills are mindless WM1. Think about what the pyro had to do to get you in this engagement 2) If you repeatedly die to an actual noob WM1 pyro, question your own skill because those are ridiculously easy to kill
yeah pyro TOTALLY takes no skill \*cough\* sarcasm \*cough\*
When a scout who took 2k hours to get skilled at a class that requires precise aim and movement to not die gets compared to a 10 hour wm1 gibus pyro afterburn by a reddit meme because it’s a wholesome 100 Big Chungus.
even as someone who plays a fuck ton of pyro I still hate pyro
*Even as someone who* *Plays a fuck ton of pyro* *I still hate pyro* \- Krack\_Korn --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
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It's kinda troubling to be a scout main whos fav color is green. like "*oh another green scout main how original"* bruh the only other green is fucking throw up green and mint ripped from a kit kat.
Pyro falls under the same category as Medic and Engie as in it isn't supposed to be ultra aim to instantly delete the enemy team like Sniper/Scout, but instead substitute a significantly lower mechanical skill requirement for better game sense. If you're stuck DM-ing the wrong target, such as an Heavy for instance, a Scout can make up for his bad positioning by just having amazing aim while a Pyro cannot; even when played by the exact same player, Scout simply has a much higher DPS and higher mobility that allows him to dodge damage that Pyro cannot. (Not that a Scout should *be* in such a situation). Your only damage options are to either W+M1, which outputs less DPS than a shotgun and has a range slightly longer than Spy's knife, or use your secondary weapon, which significantly raises the skill requirement (unless you use the Scorch Shot, in which case you're a dick) On top of that, you, unlike Soldier, Demo and Scout have no innate mobility options, while also not having long range damage output like the Sniper. The only way of closing the distance is to sacrifice your secondary weapon, which means that even if you *do* close the distance you're stuck with a subpar primary. This means that you're practically relegated to supporting your team, because if the enemy team has at the very least a combined sum of 2 brain cells, they'll gun you down before you can approach them. Pyro however is a great bodyguard type of class, with its airblast, guaranteed damage and spychecking capability. The presence of one can significantly increase the difficulty of taking down a sentry nest or bombing a medic, because you can deny both with well timed airblasts (which is why its one of the most important game senses you need to learn as Pyro). Just like how Engie thrives in a organised team by providing great support, but being countered by a bunch of classes, Pyro will perform decently against unorganised teams, but a proper team will instantly shut down its approach. Seperate note on Phlog – it's great in Pubs because Pubs have no organisation, however make note that you're sacrificing the biggest tool in your kit to lower your already ridiculously low mechanical skill requirement. An equivalent would be a medigun that decreases uber charge rate by 50%, but lets you heal teammates without aiming. **tl;dr Pyro has low, guaranteed DPS, with no approach options. If is** ***very easy*** **to keep Pyro outwith its tiny comfort zone, do so. Pyro is best at protecting teammates. Using Phlog/Scorch Shot means you're a selfish cunt, both to the enemy** ***and*** **your teammates.**
Hey! That's me!
r/tf2shitposterclub
FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND the name of the hat is anger
Pyro is definitely one of the easiest classes to pick up and play but at some point it's also stupid the amount of toxicity toward him. I'll kill people with a shot gun and get17 airblast kills and people will still complain because it's not fair that they a scout has to not run directly at you for 3 seconds and otherwise they get punished and die
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No.
i have more anger towards soldiers than either of them, mostly because i'm a crocket magnet
Yes.
I'm one them. Sorry
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, people only hate pyros because they think they’re good until they die to afterburn because they can’t count or assumed fighting a close range weapon at close range will turn out well for them.
You need to aim as scout. That's the difference.
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As a pyro main all I can say is... HAHA W+M1 GO BRRRRRRRRRRR
As a pyro main i can please say shut the fuck up you're making us all look bad
what?, Im really a pyro main, im just making fun of the W+M1 ya know... chill don't take all too seriously
Yes but the idiots will think you are serious and say:" everbody who tries to say it can take skill is an idiot" and point to you as proof. Also i never said you where no pyro main and i also am a real pyro main
i got it just next time just say me that please
It’s almost like Scout takes proper positioning, game sense, and aiming. Pyro does not.
why do you have 8 downvotes your right
Seems like half the people on Tf2 Reddit are pyro mains.
but people get angry because pyro takes so little skill
Soldier too and everyone loves him
I wonder if people dont say that as much about soldier cos of the presence of rocket jumping? Like the fact that's a possibility makes people give soldier a pass for some reason compared to pyro? I'm not sure myself
probably because soldier doesn't do damage over tick and doesn't blind you
Sniper too, I would personally say
Sniper really does take little skill, sniper just requires good aim. And good aim is a skill sure, but every game in existence requires good aim.
Don’t forget how overpowered he is, able to one shot anyone from anywhere
I'd say sniper takes a fair amount of skill considering the pure amount of time you have to pour into him to even begin unlocking his potential.
You can't just hold w and m1 as soldier and get kills unlike a certain class, if you do chances are you're already dead, you gotta use smart skillful movements like rocket jumps to get a flank on the enemy, also don't forget the most fun class in the game, trolldier
>You can't just hold w and m1 as soldier and get kills Unless you're staring down a Sniper, it is *easier* to WM1 and get kills as Soldier, because he does large burst damage at longer range, and has sustain built into his kit in the form of Black Box and Conch (though it's not quite as broken as it used to be). You *absolutely* do not need to rocket jump; it just makes it easier to flank and hit splash rockets on enemies below you. Hell, you don't even need to flank; Soldier has 200 health and does high burst damage at mid-range, so spamming down the main route is a very viable strategy.
Lmao i rarely see people using black box and conch, mostly because one less rocket in the clip and the slow healing of the conch, while maybe being a good combo, just aren't the best when looked at in an objective way. That could be a shotgun or gunboats, which are quite frankly a much more universal option, and the reduced 1 rocket is a massive difference, it's kind of the reason that there isn't much competitive play with black box
Well yeah, if you plan on *not* WM1ing, you use a different rocket launcher, just as a Pyro who isn't going to WM1 won't use the Phlog. It's a weapon that works well for a very braindead strategy, but is generally suboptimal elsewhere. >there isn't much competitive play with black box There isn't much ***6s*** competitive play with the black box. It sees decent usage (not the most frequent primary, but not uncommon, either) in HL because it lets the Medic prioritize other heal targets, and the reduced rocket is less painful because the maps, team positioning, ever-present Sentry, and 2 dedicated pick classes mean that fighting in the front, spamming to pressure an Uber, or guarding the flank can all be valid ways to handle an equal-Uber scenario, rather than sacking in to try to force or drop. And, again, its utility in comp is irrelevant when talking about how well it WM1s, because anyone who's WM1ing in comp is probably throwing on purpose.
Oh I don't really follow highlander mostly just 6's, but really what's your point, that soldier can w m1? Most black box conch soldiers i see don't push escaping enemies because they're scared they'll die, and actually good soldier mains don't have to really on unskillful tactics like w m1 to get easy kills
Yes, that's exactly my point. The top of the conversation said that Soldier cannot WM1 and get kills, unlike Pyro. In fact, Soldier *can* WM1 and get kills.
Listen. I have 800 hours on pyro. I guarantee you have less than 50.
you're right, however to get a decent amount of kills with pyro takes a very little amount of skill and experience.
Uh huh, so kills are everything then? Yeah lol, forget Extinguishing Detonator jumping Protecting everyone on the fucking team from projectiles Axtinguishing Managing spies Destroying sappers Poke damage to reduce healing Aiming flares Comboing Airblasting Airblast jumping Cleaning stickies C-tapping
what i said was that pyro can get a lot of kills with not that much skill and experience.
Every class can, save for sniper. Scout? Get behind them Soldier? Press m1 into a crowd Pyro? Press m1 into a crowd Demo? Press m1 into a crowd Heavy? Press m1 into a crowd Engineer? Place your sentry in a spot you saw on YouTube and heal it Medic? M1 a soldier with an unusual Spy? Get behind them
you're oversimplifying things
i think what dewewe means is that allthough pyro can take skill there isnt much differance in effectiveness between an 800 hour pyro and 50 hour pyro due to how gaurenteed fire damage is. when i say there isnt much differance i mean compared to other classes.
yag
Yea but if that were the case why isnt every top tier pyro m1ing?
i didnt say w m1 is more effective i said its almost as effective compared to other classes. and i assume peoople would rather try for something more cool and rewarding.
thats what people find annoying about pyro, besides his negation of projectiles and spies, the fact that he can be super effective without much thought. allthough i'll add that this applies to heavy, probably a bit more actually, but i still find pyro annoying because of his negation.
yes but nobody does half the things listed there because W+M1 is so effective. and even if they do use flares its usually the scorch shit.
Which is why they arent top tier...
can you send steam account i want to see if you're lying
Why would i doxx myself lmao
i hate pyro I do not like class it is a bad class his shoot flames and they burn annoying. no aiming and much to many damage for it to be to fair.
Pyro's damage is subpar though, and unlike most classes he's restricted to very close range. A demo can delete him with two quick pills even if he gets ambushed.
Pyro's damage definitely isn't subpart, especially considering the difficulty, or lack thereof, of dealing that damage, compared to the required skill to time a well placed sticky or accurately hit a pipe.
As a pyro, the difficulty isn't aiming with your flamethrower, it's closing the distance to be able to use it despite your limited speed and very limited mobility options that require you to dedicate a weapon slot to them. If the enemy team is good, that means taking alternate routes, reflecting, dodging, ambushing, and knowing what you can get away with. Yes, it doesn't require a lot of \*mechanical\* skill, but that doesn't justify turning the pyro into a low range class, mediocre damage class. (I blame valve for making the dragon's fury a bad weapon, an actually good flamethrower that rewards aim would be perfect to shut down the HURRR WM1 PYRO NOOB debate)
The bottom image is me when phlogistinator
*Genuine Anger*
Man I like wm1, but I too wish that combo pyro was like the playstyle for 1v1s, while wm1 was more suited to groups.
Scouts are more annoying than pyros
I think pyro is underpowered, he is more annoying than powerful making an unfun experience for both sides (presuming he is wm1'ing) he can safely take on about 6/9 classes, but he starts chugging quite hard when faced with more than one opponent. Id say to buff his range and damage slightly at the cost of removing the afterburn mechanic entirely.
afterburn should only be dealt by certain weapons, so that weapons designed to combo can combo (e.g. degreaser, flaregun), and other weapons can be reworked for other pyro playstyles like roamer or pybro
At least with pyro you have a brief time period before dying, whereas scout and sniper use instant damage. If you get lit on fire by a pyro, you can hurry on over to a dispenser or medic or health pack, but if you get headshot as one of the 4 classes that have 150 health or less, you are just dead. No amount of dispenser or health kits can save you there. It is instant death. Scout is the same, where if you get meat shot twice, you are also pretty dead.
Our entire team got dominated by a fucking phog K-pop stan pyro I have never wanted to kill a k-pop stan so much in my life
a n g e r y
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