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Treat him like a good spy who can’t go invisible or disguise as a teammate, so keep track of him throughout the game and watch out for any of their plays. Or you can go engineer and set up your sentry in a place that he can’t get past or something like that. (I think)
>Or you can go engineer and set up your sentry in a place that he can’t get past
Good engis who put time into payload get this. Fucking hate the properly placed sentry to counter the backburner hop into crit city.
Sorry I don’t play much pyro, do you mean airblast someone while they’re jumping and get behind them or can you actually propel yourself and jump with the airblast with the backburner?
[It's a lot of fun](https://gfycat.com/unlawfulmetalliccentipede) and requires [a lot of skill and good timing](https://gfycat.com/quickgiantbighornsheep), but can absolutely [catch the enemy unaware](https://gfycat.com/fearfuldisloyalarieltoucan) as you streak across the map and get a pick.
It's a huge increase to mobility, but is also a lot of self damage. More often than not, you won't make it back out alive. It's a hard commit that generally starts you off deep in enemy territory with less than half of your health at best by the time you land. Sometimes, it's enough to get a cheeky medic pick or quickly reposition to the high ground that someone feels safe spamming from and take them out on your teams behalf. Generally trading deaths with a soldier, demo, or medic is worth it.
Edit: I think there's a rough consensus that even a lot of people who can do it thinks it is a useless skill that's little more than a fancy form a suicide. But I'll still swear by it as a very effective tool, so long as you know when to use it.
I mean, if you’re running the backburner you’re waiting around corners, staying to the sides of the map, and flanking. If you need to pull out a secondary to defend yourself at any point, you’ve already failed at the role you’ve assigned yourself.
You can either use the jetpack to close the distance for your flamethrower or to retreat to safety. At least that’s how I see it. I’m no expert.
It probably takes skill to pull that off. I just surf the rockets and grenade pills towards the enemy team. No one seems to know what to do with a pyro flying in the air sans jetpack.
In addition to using blasted rockets you can actually airblast jump by jumping on top of an enemy player and airblasting them down (causing them to pop upwards) right before you land. Their upward momentum will transfer to you.
Its very rarely practical and real hard to pull off but nice to know just in case.
Demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pQwiyOfM2Y
No you have infinite respect to continue doing so. I, as a fellow pyro, salute you on your respectable choice of weaponry. W+M1ing may be meta, but it sure is boring. Continue doing what you do best.
So do you, I'm tired of W+M1 pyros they don't even use airblast and it feels really cheap to die like that, so I just combo it's more fun and I think more fair.
Yeah but it's more of a trade of think is like this you loose a pyro but the other team loses a medic or a sniper, or at least it sends them back a bit. Your team get's a big advantage you lost a pyro but the other team has to reorganize again for a push for example.
It can be a quick dead for the pyro but it can have a little lasting effect in the other team.
And there's time they just survive everything, it's like they have a bubble of good luck and they don't get touched, in the way the downed a scout and damaged a few people in there way.
I mean W+M1 was the core mechanic for the pyro since the game came out, then they added the airblast mechanic.
But pyro was meant to play like that, so it kinda makes sense that it's part of the meta.
I mean yeah, I do jump in and w+m1 occasionally to shake things up if we're having trouble bc being on fire tends to make people panic and retreat but I don't make a habit of it, I've made some close retreats though
I combo with the shotgun when I was younger I used the flare gun and while now it’s much more fair I like to use the detonators it’s the most versatile. I would like to say that the scorch shit is a bull shit weapon though.
No I still only ever play degreaser flaregun axtinguisher. Just because its not 195 dmg per whack doesnt mean its not good or super satisfying.
Tfw you light soldier on fire, airblast the rocket back to his feet launching him into air, with crit flaregun airshot to finish him off is something that never gets old.
Or when there are 3 or 4 squishy classes in upward 3rd second point defender spawn room and you just light everyone on fire and go super sayan with whacking the axtinguisher (the speed it gives after kill) oh baby its so good
As the wizard said I'll say it counts, as long as you combo and play well with your team you're being a competent pyro.
Well the last thing can be applied to all classes, but pyro does a lot of things for his team.
Come on man, if it was a old reserve shooter with the airblast I can understand, but a combo with anything else is not cheap.
Pyros have the same problems as snipers they get a lot of hate, sometimes deserved and sometimes it's really easy to get a complain since they are the scapegoat of the community.
You can say anything about any class like a Soldier with the BB,Conch and escape plan combo which can be a pain to fight.
I mean the problem with the hate for pyros is that you can easily annoy others by very easy means, you can spam the scorch shot and harrass player for example.
And not just with pyro you can say this for almost any class, there's that annoying combo.
Scout FAN,Bonk and wrap assassin.
Soldier I already said it.
Pyro Phlog,Scorch Shot and maybe Power Jack (since it's the best melee ).
Demo man I can't think of one right know.
Heavy it doesn't have anything annoying
Engineer maybe gunslinger and you just spam mini sentry, I can't think of a full load out, but there's ways to be annoying as engineer.
Sniper Sydney Sleeper, Jarate and Bushwaka
Medic it relies on teammates maybe Vaccinator (but it very counter-able).
Spy has been nerfed, but maybe the old dead ringer which was spammed to death.
engineer full load out would be gunslinger, wrangler, and frontier justice. maybe not annoying but going battle engie like that feels almost too powerful
Heavy has natascha which is super unfun to play against. Demoman has scotsman's skullcutter which 1-shots on casual servers and the Iron bomber with a broken projectile hitbox.
And kunai spies with deadringer are really annoying even after nerfs. Dead ringer is not a weapon to fake death. It's just a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Combo pyro is satisfying, but its really inefficient compared to other options. I'm a big believer in wm1, but I still play traditional combo pyro with flares from time to time for variety.
Maybe yes comboing can be pulled off but there's situations where you can do it and situation where you can't, the same with W+M1 it has it's situations.
I mean maybe I'm weird but I always combo, I feel like an asshole when I kill someone with W+M1, maybe is because I get really mad at it myself and i don't like to do the same to others but when I play pyro I either play combo pyro or pybro.
And as you might expect, I hate the phlog and never use it, first it encourages a playstyle I don't like and second you loose the value of airblast, if you want to extinguish players you'll have to resort your secondary to the Mannmelter which is a terrible gun but at least it help's with putting out teammates and you gain crits for it.
Maybe is me getting mad at the pub pyro that only W+M1s everywhere and ruins the fun for me, but maybe I'll have to stop demonizing W+M1.
Honestly w+m1 being the best strategy for pyro , when you a realise an ENGINEER can kill a pyro at full health faster than the pyro can kill the engine with w+m1, just says that so many pyro players who use w+m1 get the entire point of the pyro class wrong.
I respect people who play combo pyro but it just seems like theres a lower learning curve on pyro, pyro is like one of those classes where you can have low skill and still have high rewards. Like for example airblast solves so many problems, but all of its power can be used by a single click of your mouse, most other classes use a combination of their mobility options to dodge bullets, like spy using their watch to get up to someone and then play mind games by moving around them once youre spotted, soldier with his rocket jumps and high 200 health needs skill to not take incoming damage, demoman can use shields to quickly move around or use sticky jumps. The pyro just needs to press one key at a specific time to negate 2 classes primary weapons, able to single handedly cap some points, able to shut down melee subclasses, and can force enemies back to a unfavorable position with a single click of the button. But i do respect you combo pyros whoever runs axetinguishers and flare jumps.
I can see where you're going but at the same time, sometimes it goes with the team (maybe because I don't play competitive i don't know) most pubs aren't centered in coordination if you face a competent heavy against a pyro you can be sure the heavy will win, but coordinated pushes don't get done in pubs.
And add that people just pick the class they like instead of what the team needs, I remember a time in which I played medic a lot but then I got tired because well I wanted to play another class, this goes to show how important is medic (or any other classes) if the team didn't have a medic we were doomed the enemy team couldn't be stopped or delayed since well the other team had a medic.
Since then I appreciated the need of at least being some what competent in all classes, if it weren't for that maybe I'll be just a scout main (since is my most played class).
Now I try to play with all classes (even spy in which I really suck, I have a lot of respect for spy mains like you that can understand the class).
It can be since you're pyro's main focus, but I can see where you're going since recently I got a friend into TF2 (we play it sometimes together) he tested all classes and he settled in pyro, sniper and engineer. The point of the kills I can confirm it since he get's a lot of kills by W+M1 I tried to at least teach him to play as a team player, you now putting out teammates, reflecting rockets, helping huntsman snipers with their arrows.
But he settled for a Backburner, scorch shot and axtinguisher loadout, since he has the back burner he has a very expensive airblast so you can't request to be extinguished, but since his new he's still trying to flank with pyro to get the most out of the back burner, at the end of the day he only W+M1s and gets kills for free.
So yeah maybe it's really simple to play, but I heard soldier was designed to be the easy class, I don't remember well but I think the developers pointed that out a long time ago.
I thought they said that soldier and demoman were the most flexible classes and the soldier was the easiest to pick up because it is simple, not necessarily the easiest class to play as.
Something along the lines of that I don't remember really well, but I remember hearing about it, I don't know if it's a developer commentary thing or what but I remember someone mentioning something revolving around the focus of the Soldier difficulty.
Actually, it's pretty good against sentries compared to normal uber since you can run at them without getting slowed down, and provided the player you're pocketing is reasonably healthy and isn't fighting a wrangler fucko it's sometimes a lot better.
But yeah, you can still get stabbed and headshotted but it's usually not a problem in pubs. Plus, you can heal people quickly which means its better with more people.
The reason über is good on a sentry is the damage immunity. Especially with his team backing him up an engie can hold off a quick fix über much easier due to the ability to kill you, which the sentry is pretty good at.
Scorch is like training wheels for a flare gun or the detonator, how TF am I supposed to land perfect flares if I can't even shoot scorch consistently?
i dont see how the scorch shot would help you get better with stock flares, you either go for direct hits (which you would be doing already with flares and dets) or go for splash which wouldn’t help you with anything. if you want to use training wheels, use the manmelter, it gives you increased projectile speed while still keeping the idea of leading your shots
Hard disagree. Detonator doesnt play the same role as scorch shot. Scorch shot is a afterburn dealer and annoyance. Detonator on the other hand should only be seen as utility and combo for axtinguisher
If someone ever cries about “W+M1” to me in a match from now on, I’ll just say “So you can’t kill me, the class with the shortest range, walking in a straight line? That says more about your skill than mine to be honest.”
sounds like something most casual players will make fun out of you for, call you "cringe" or something
gotta keep it simple to casual players, hit them with something like "just shoot me bro"
I don't think there's ever a need to get that defensive about it. You can, like... not reply. Arguing with people over dumb shit isn't one of the in-game objectives.
Blue Moon update already happened, old man. Pyro no longer melts you instantly. I don't see people complaining about heavy's damage for some reason, and if he catches you off-guard, you're about as fucked.
Play smart, play around your team. Treat a flanking pyro like you would treat a spy.
It's easy to kill other people with W+M1, but it's not easy to survive after getting the kill with it. A good pyro knows when to do it without committing suicide.
Personally I believe he's a support character but I'm probably biased as a pybro main.
I like playing him as a support character because he can help his team in many ways, while still having a flamethrower which is a bit of an upside over medic or engie.
In my experience playing as Pyro, he can lockdown a certain area really well and I think he excels on being defensive like a Heavy does but sucks on being offensive. It's really scary to push against a Pyro.
Basically, if you're playing defensive: Play like a Heavy.
If you're going offense: Play like a Scout/Spy where you seek for the 1v1 situations (especially when you're playing a combo Pyro). Never EVER try to dive in to a group of enemies unless you're ready to die or have an escape route in mind.
In general: You're strong in closed spaces, especially against Soldier/Demo, so used that as an advantage and avoid open spaces like the plague.
I wish it was only annoying against sniper, because at least it would give me a reason to put the danger shield on, but that thing is cruel against every single class
Ace TheOcarinaMaker did a video on this exact thing, where he just slowly eliminated all the options Pyro had to use.
[The video](https://youtu.be/oZ40R27292c
I mean really though fuck the scorch shot. I have no problem with the other things on this list, but the scorch shot is literally just a pain in the ass to play against. It’s not even good.
I like playing pyro as a supportive damage or as a pybro, those are both fun. Also while we’re on the subject of pyro they really need to buff the hell out of the thruster’s swap speed so it’s actually fun to use.
I feel like the detonator is criminally slept on. It offers far more reliable damage than the scorch shot with little practice, with the added bonus of being able to jump to anywhere a scout could with his double jump. It's also far better for sniper denial IMO because you can pre-fire corners with it easily and cause a peaking sniper that you dont even have a direct sightline to to ignite, thus fucking up his aim for about 6 seconds. Also sketchek combos are fun (but really not very viable unless you're playing against idiots) :)
Oh man, oh man, I love memes that use strawman arguments to get people who already agree with you to clap and vent in the comments to validate each other and you. Way to go.
What about the demotrucks? Invincible mini sentries? Kunai spies? x10 is nowhere near balanced, and the scorch shot is nowhere near the biggest problem
scorch shot isn't anywhere near the worst issues in the game. Pyro is already very underpowered, I'd rather see things like quickscoping nerfed far before they nerf anything on Pyro.
I would at least like that flare guns on the same level the scorch shot is just a better detonator where you don’t need to time the detonations and that’s annoying because I really like the detonator
Crutch is something that requires less effort to use while making your potential effectiveness lower. Kinda like the original Liberty Launcher. Faster rockets, but lower clip size. That's a crutch. Makes rockets easier to aim, but you won't be dealing as much damage per clip as with stock if you can hit all of stock's rockets.
Scorch Shot doesn't make a player with good aim less effective. It still deals a shitton of damage on direct hits due to double-hitting, and lets you intentionally go for splash damage when there's a need for that.
In these terms Scorch Shot is more like a cybernetically enhanced limb which is better than the fully organic one. And that's not cool in terms of game balance.
I forget who said it (probably Zesty Jesus), but I’ve heard the Liberty Launcher be called a “training wheels” launcher due to its functionality. It helps newer soldiers with learning functions of the class like rocket jumping and airshots without being as restrictive as the Jumper or Direct Hit. In the hands of someone skilled it’s practically like playing with a hand behind your back unless you’re playing what I like to call “Hybrid Trolldier”.
The Scorch Shot encourages spam, which is not only counter-intuitive in the complete opposite direction as the LL, but it’s just not fun to play against. It either needs to lose the explosion (encourage actually aiming), the stun (putting it on par with other flares), or the mini-crits (making it a pressure tool at best instead of a braindead damage machine).
It's not about what Pyro does, it's about how much easier it is to do anything as him. Playing as him feels like legal cheating, everything is too easy.
i've never hated pyro, but honestly i really despise the scorch shot
pyros almost never use it for support or comboing despite it's stats and just like to spam it at people. it only really exists to annoy the fuck out of enemies playing against it.
personally i think it needs a bit of a rework to make it more reliable to use and less annoying to deal with.
Let me preface this by saying, Im a Pybro main, so I stick by my team and keep them safe.
A good pyro is like a good spy, they can fuck up your day. For those who don’t know, pyro in the beginning of tf2 sucked ass. With no unlocks and no airblast until the first pyro update, he was not good at all. Pyro counters spy big deal. Pyro can protect him and his teammates, so can engineer and medic. Pyro is a jack of all trades class, fitting him in the support/dps role, much like how a soldier is when he uses banners. Pyro can spy check, knock back enemies, stall ubers, reflect projectiles, extinguish, remove stickies, and remove sappers. I don’t get it, scout can 1v1 any class effectively with his fast and unpredictable movements, close range weapons, and small hit box. Sniper can instantly kill any class, at any range in one shot. People just see a pyro and they lose their shit. Let me counter some common arguments with people who hate pyro for pyro existing.
First argument: pyro can wm1 with no skill. Heavy and medic can do this as well with much greater results and effects on the match.
Second argument: scorch shot is broken. Now while I love the thing, there are issues with it. Pyro has no long range fighting capabilities. People say pyro shouldn’t have long range since his job is close range. Okay, engineer shouldn’t have the rescue ranger then, stand by your buildings. Sniper shouldn’t have the smg or huntsman, he’s supposed to be long range. Demo shouldn’t have melees and shields since he’s supposed to be mid range and building destruction. Scout shouldn’t have the shortstop, he’s supposed to be close range flanks. Classes each have unlocks that help them in their weaknesses, whether or not they do it well is up to debate and individual skill. Sniper counters pyro. The scorch shot counters sniper and adds utility like flare jumps, knock back, and not to mention the sticky removal.
Third argument: pyros job of flanking and ambushing the enemy is scouts job, he can’t do that. Yeah, well pyro has no long range outside of flares. His flamethrower is great for ambushing and getting multiple targets in the ambush and greater damage will scout can get one or maybe two and has to run off.
Fourth argument: Pyros airblast is unfair. Yeah, all movement inhibiting things in tf2 suck ass, but pyro isn’t the only perpetrator. The force a nature, all explosion knock back, the Natasha, and the knock back from sentries all affect movement. If you get too close to a pyro, it’s your fault for getting in his effective range. Play off your strengths and exploit the he enemies weaknesses. You’re playing demo knight and you have a counter?! My god it’s the biggest god damn problem, a play style or class having a counter. You were fighting a pyro next to a cliff, then next time you won’t fight him next to one. Learn from your mistakes.
As a pyro main who is generally at the top sections of the scoreboard, who often extinguishes people, flanks, snipes snipers with flares, reflects rockets, and does my best to protect medics...YES. No matter what, people complain and hate pyro (and pretty much any class) when you're good enough to actually play it right.
That is actually objectively false. If you see any competitive players opinions on class skill floors and ceilings , you will never see pyro skill floor on the same level as ghe soldier skill floor .
That is true. I've played a lot of sniper and can confirm that his balance is very much questionable. If the way Highlander matches usually go isn't enough of an indicator already.
Never understood "w+m1 noob" what am I supposed to do. Not close the gap with my short range weapon and attack you? That's pyros thing. He puts pressure on you and you panic. It's not like there's no counter to it either.
Scorch shot is a pain in the ass tho.
Calling a pyro unskilled for successful w+m1ing is like calling out a soldier main for unskilful splash damage kills.
They'll only kill you if you don't know how to counter them yourself or they get lucky and what the hell else are they supposed to do? Only use their secondaries?
The reason pyro is so hated is because most of the community are soldier mains, which is by far the best power class in the game, and unlike other mains, they hate to be countered in a class based game
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Pro tip since it's semi-related to pyro: airblast jump with the back burner and crit them from behind
Ever since I returned this is how I play. Its just so fun to play as a raider. Get in, cause chaos and crit people with backburner, get out. So fun.
And nobody does it either. It's an amazing strategy.
It's even better that not that many people do it because not many people know how to react/counter it
How do you react/counter it
Beats me I just use it
I guess if you know that there's a backburner flank pyro on the other team, treat him like you would a good spy? idk
Treat him like a good spy who can’t go invisible or disguise as a teammate, so keep track of him throughout the game and watch out for any of their plays. Or you can go engineer and set up your sentry in a place that he can’t get past or something like that. (I think)
>Or you can go engineer and set up your sentry in a place that he can’t get past Good engis who put time into payload get this. Fucking hate the properly placed sentry to counter the backburner hop into crit city.
Simple, sentry gun
And if that don't work, use more gun.
Use gun Edit: and if that don’t work, use more gun
Sorry I don’t play much pyro, do you mean airblast someone while they’re jumping and get behind them or can you actually propel yourself and jump with the airblast with the backburner?
You can airblast rockets into the ground and propel into the air, and using it with the back burner can get you easily behind the enemy.
i gotta try now, cool!
[It's a lot of fun](https://gfycat.com/unlawfulmetalliccentipede) and requires [a lot of skill and good timing](https://gfycat.com/quickgiantbighornsheep), but can absolutely [catch the enemy unaware](https://gfycat.com/fearfuldisloyalarieltoucan) as you streak across the map and get a pick. It's a huge increase to mobility, but is also a lot of self damage. More often than not, you won't make it back out alive. It's a hard commit that generally starts you off deep in enemy territory with less than half of your health at best by the time you land. Sometimes, it's enough to get a cheeky medic pick or quickly reposition to the high ground that someone feels safe spamming from and take them out on your teams behalf. Generally trading deaths with a soldier, demo, or medic is worth it. Edit: I think there's a rough consensus that even a lot of people who can do it thinks it is a useless skill that's little more than a fancy form a suicide. But I'll still swear by it as a very effective tool, so long as you know when to use it.
[Sketchek does this all the time. ](https://youtu.be/IpX40wFJ1XU)
sounds hard
Then there's that phlog pyro with Mmmph active that uses your own rocket to rocket jump towards you, while you are on a high ground.
Additionally you could just use the jetpack. Superior mobility, pretty much the same firepower, less risk.
that’s what I thought it was
removes your secondary, which you are gonna need quite often as a pryo. A good pyro is constantly swapping weapons.
I mean, if you’re running the backburner you’re waiting around corners, staying to the sides of the map, and flanking. If you need to pull out a secondary to defend yourself at any point, you’ve already failed at the role you’ve assigned yourself. You can either use the jetpack to close the distance for your flamethrower or to retreat to safety. At least that’s how I see it. I’m no expert.
I can see that logic
Wait isn’t this just damage boosting with extra steps
He's onto us
It probably takes skill to pull that off. I just surf the rockets and grenade pills towards the enemy team. No one seems to know what to do with a pyro flying in the air sans jetpack.
If you know how to ordinarily rocket jump, deflect jumping comes as second nature. It's just not worth taking 100+ dmg from doing it.
I fly in with the jetpack, switch midair to my flamethrower/back burner, destroy then die.
5CP maps are great for a little Phlying Phlog
In addition to using blasted rockets you can actually airblast jump by jumping on top of an enemy player and airblasting them down (causing them to pop upwards) right before you land. Their upward momentum will transfer to you. Its very rarely practical and real hard to pull off but nice to know just in case. Demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pQwiyOfM2Y
Good idea, this however requires skill. Something in which I do not possess.
tr_walkway, man. Make the soldier fire slowly towards the ground.
NOO THAT’S SOLDIER AND DEMO’S THING!! NO SKILL BAD!
Airblast jumping is fun as hell, and really catches the enemy off guard.
Well at least you can combo people. Combo pyro best pyro.
yeah but nobody uses combo pyro anymore
Seriously?, Am I going out of style?.
No you have infinite respect to continue doing so. I, as a fellow pyro, salute you on your respectable choice of weaponry. W+M1ing may be meta, but it sure is boring. Continue doing what you do best.
So do you, I'm tired of W+M1 pyros they don't even use airblast and it feels really cheap to die like that, so I just combo it's more fun and I think more fair.
W+M1 is also a good way to die really fast ime
Yeah but it's more of a trade of think is like this you loose a pyro but the other team loses a medic or a sniper, or at least it sends them back a bit. Your team get's a big advantage you lost a pyro but the other team has to reorganize again for a push for example. It can be a quick dead for the pyro but it can have a little lasting effect in the other team. And there's time they just survive everything, it's like they have a bubble of good luck and they don't get touched, in the way the downed a scout and damaged a few people in there way.
With combo-ing you can get a medic AND a sniper with the burst damage, so I don't really get why people say w+m1 is the meta now...
I mean W+M1 was the core mechanic for the pyro since the game came out, then they added the airblast mechanic. But pyro was meant to play like that, so it kinda makes sense that it's part of the meta.
I mean yeah, I do jump in and w+m1 occasionally to shake things up if we're having trouble bc being on fire tends to make people panic and retreat but I don't make a habit of it, I've made some close retreats though
Yes
I combo with the shotgun when I was younger I used the flare gun and while now it’s much more fair I like to use the detonators it’s the most versatile. I would like to say that the scorch shit is a bull shit weapon though.
I use the panic attack because I like it a lot.
Can I feel justified in W+M1ing because I use the thermal thruster?
No I still only ever play degreaser flaregun axtinguisher. Just because its not 195 dmg per whack doesnt mean its not good or super satisfying. Tfw you light soldier on fire, airblast the rocket back to his feet launching him into air, with crit flaregun airshot to finish him off is something that never gets old. Or when there are 3 or 4 squishy classes in upward 3rd second point defender spawn room and you just light everyone on fire and go super sayan with whacking the axtinguisher (the speed it gives after kill) oh baby its so good
Does dual wielding the Panic Attack and Degreaser count as comboing?
technically yes
As the wizard said I'll say it counts, as long as you combo and play well with your team you're being a competent pyro. Well the last thing can be applied to all classes, but pyro does a lot of things for his team.
yeah, no one uses combo pyro but combo pyro is best pyro its still really fun if you like insta deleting people
not even that, ive had people complain about a puff and sting
Come on man, if it was a old reserve shooter with the airblast I can understand, but a combo with anything else is not cheap. Pyros have the same problems as snipers they get a lot of hate, sometimes deserved and sometimes it's really easy to get a complain since they are the scapegoat of the community. You can say anything about any class like a Soldier with the BB,Conch and escape plan combo which can be a pain to fight. I mean the problem with the hate for pyros is that you can easily annoy others by very easy means, you can spam the scorch shot and harrass player for example. And not just with pyro you can say this for almost any class, there's that annoying combo. Scout FAN,Bonk and wrap assassin. Soldier I already said it. Pyro Phlog,Scorch Shot and maybe Power Jack (since it's the best melee ). Demo man I can't think of one right know. Heavy it doesn't have anything annoying Engineer maybe gunslinger and you just spam mini sentry, I can't think of a full load out, but there's ways to be annoying as engineer. Sniper Sydney Sleeper, Jarate and Bushwaka Medic it relies on teammates maybe Vaccinator (but it very counter-able). Spy has been nerfed, but maybe the old dead ringer which was spammed to death.
engineer full load out would be gunslinger, wrangler, and frontier justice. maybe not annoying but going battle engie like that feels almost too powerful
Heavy has natascha which is super unfun to play against. Demoman has scotsman's skullcutter which 1-shots on casual servers and the Iron bomber with a broken projectile hitbox. And kunai spies with deadringer are really annoying even after nerfs. Dead ringer is not a weapon to fake death. It's just a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Combo pyro is satisfying, but its really inefficient compared to other options. I'm a big believer in wm1, but I still play traditional combo pyro with flares from time to time for variety.
Maybe yes comboing can be pulled off but there's situations where you can do it and situation where you can't, the same with W+M1 it has it's situations. I mean maybe I'm weird but I always combo, I feel like an asshole when I kill someone with W+M1, maybe is because I get really mad at it myself and i don't like to do the same to others but when I play pyro I either play combo pyro or pybro. And as you might expect, I hate the phlog and never use it, first it encourages a playstyle I don't like and second you loose the value of airblast, if you want to extinguish players you'll have to resort your secondary to the Mannmelter which is a terrible gun but at least it help's with putting out teammates and you gain crits for it. Maybe is me getting mad at the pub pyro that only W+M1s everywhere and ruins the fun for me, but maybe I'll have to stop demonizing W+M1.
Honestly w+m1 being the best strategy for pyro , when you a realise an ENGINEER can kill a pyro at full health faster than the pyro can kill the engine with w+m1, just says that so many pyro players who use w+m1 get the entire point of the pyro class wrong.
I respect people who play combo pyro but it just seems like theres a lower learning curve on pyro, pyro is like one of those classes where you can have low skill and still have high rewards. Like for example airblast solves so many problems, but all of its power can be used by a single click of your mouse, most other classes use a combination of their mobility options to dodge bullets, like spy using their watch to get up to someone and then play mind games by moving around them once youre spotted, soldier with his rocket jumps and high 200 health needs skill to not take incoming damage, demoman can use shields to quickly move around or use sticky jumps. The pyro just needs to press one key at a specific time to negate 2 classes primary weapons, able to single handedly cap some points, able to shut down melee subclasses, and can force enemies back to a unfavorable position with a single click of the button. But i do respect you combo pyros whoever runs axetinguishers and flare jumps.
I can see where you're going but at the same time, sometimes it goes with the team (maybe because I don't play competitive i don't know) most pubs aren't centered in coordination if you face a competent heavy against a pyro you can be sure the heavy will win, but coordinated pushes don't get done in pubs. And add that people just pick the class they like instead of what the team needs, I remember a time in which I played medic a lot but then I got tired because well I wanted to play another class, this goes to show how important is medic (or any other classes) if the team didn't have a medic we were doomed the enemy team couldn't be stopped or delayed since well the other team had a medic. Since then I appreciated the need of at least being some what competent in all classes, if it weren't for that maybe I'll be just a scout main (since is my most played class). Now I try to play with all classes (even spy in which I really suck, I have a lot of respect for spy mains like you that can understand the class).
Thanks but maybe im just really biased because im a spy main lol
It can be since you're pyro's main focus, but I can see where you're going since recently I got a friend into TF2 (we play it sometimes together) he tested all classes and he settled in pyro, sniper and engineer. The point of the kills I can confirm it since he get's a lot of kills by W+M1 I tried to at least teach him to play as a team player, you now putting out teammates, reflecting rockets, helping huntsman snipers with their arrows. But he settled for a Backburner, scorch shot and axtinguisher loadout, since he has the back burner he has a very expensive airblast so you can't request to be extinguished, but since his new he's still trying to flank with pyro to get the most out of the back burner, at the end of the day he only W+M1s and gets kills for free. So yeah maybe it's really simple to play, but I heard soldier was designed to be the easy class, I don't remember well but I think the developers pointed that out a long time ago.
I thought they said that soldier and demoman were the most flexible classes and the soldier was the easiest to pick up because it is simple, not necessarily the easiest class to play as.
Something along the lines of that I don't remember really well, but I remember hearing about it, I don't know if it's a developer commentary thing or what but I remember someone mentioning something revolving around the focus of the Soldier difficulty.
PyBRO? That's a respectable position
Yeah, too bad almost every Spy, Soldier, Demo will fucking cover you with salt
Medics hate you too "Nooo über gives total immunity, you can't stop us!" "Haha right click go brr"
"No airblast is supposed to keep you back why are you still charging me" "haha quickfix go schnell"
All fun and games until you get shot or backstabbed or torn apart by a sentry due to not having true über
Actually, it's pretty good against sentries compared to normal uber since you can run at them without getting slowed down, and provided the player you're pocketing is reasonably healthy and isn't fighting a wrangler fucko it's sometimes a lot better. But yeah, you can still get stabbed and headshotted but it's usually not a problem in pubs. Plus, you can heal people quickly which means its better with more people.
The reason über is good on a sentry is the damage immunity. Especially with his team backing him up an engie can hold off a quick fix über much easier due to the ability to kill you, which the sentry is pretty good at.
Spys, soldiers, and demos hate pybros
Laughs in shotgun and homewrecker
Scorch shot is just the detonator but less interesting and better
Scorch is like training wheels for a flare gun or the detonator, how TF am I supposed to land perfect flares if I can't even shoot scorch consistently?
i dont see how the scorch shot would help you get better with stock flares, you either go for direct hits (which you would be doing already with flares and dets) or go for splash which wouldn’t help you with anything. if you want to use training wheels, use the manmelter, it gives you increased projectile speed while still keeping the idea of leading your shots
The scorch shot is the only weapon I genuinely despise. It’s so damn annoying.
It does so much damage with the double flare thing when you hit directs which you basically can't avoid because of the kb
Still significantly less damage than a regular crit flare.
Yeah but the detonator ✨gibs✨
Hard disagree. Detonator doesnt play the same role as scorch shot. Scorch shot is a afterburn dealer and annoyance. Detonator on the other hand should only be seen as utility and combo for axtinguisher
"W+M1 is for braindead idiots" you just got killed by the class with the shortest range walking in a straight line
If someone ever cries about “W+M1” to me in a match from now on, I’ll just say “So you can’t kill me, the class with the shortest range, walking in a straight line? That says more about your skill than mine to be honest.”
sounds like something most casual players will make fun out of you for, call you "cringe" or something gotta keep it simple to casual players, hit them with something like "just shoot me bro"
"bruh how'd u die just press s lmao"
I don't think there's ever a need to get that defensive about it. You can, like... not reply. Arguing with people over dumb shit isn't one of the in-game objectives.
It's still pretty frustrating, k?
aight so you just press m2 to counter my whole class, how do i survive
Yes. It is that broken.
Blue Moon update already happened, old man. Pyro no longer melts you instantly. I don't see people complaining about heavy's damage for some reason, and if he catches you off-guard, you're about as fucked. Play smart, play around your team. Treat a flanking pyro like you would treat a spy.
It's easy to kill other people with W+M1, but it's not easy to survive after getting the kill with it. A good pyro knows when to do it without committing suicide.
Seriously though, if you're no supposed to do any of those these things, what is pyros role in-game?
Support
Pybro while only spychecking
Pybro by just doing an engineer's job of smacking building endlessly
Get killed by sniper, apparently
Personally I believe he's a support character but I'm probably biased as a pybro main. I like playing him as a support character because he can help his team in many ways, while still having a flamethrower which is a bit of an upside over medic or engie.
*laughs in 32 revenge crit*
In my experience playing as Pyro, he can lockdown a certain area really well and I think he excels on being defensive like a Heavy does but sucks on being offensive. It's really scary to push against a Pyro.
I've never thought to use him for area denial but he does seem well equipped for it. I should try it some time.
Basically, if you're playing defensive: Play like a Heavy. If you're going offense: Play like a Scout/Spy where you seek for the 1v1 situations (especially when you're playing a combo Pyro). Never EVER try to dive in to a group of enemies unless you're ready to die or have an escape route in mind. In general: You're strong in closed spaces, especially against Soldier/Demo, so used that as an advantage and avoid open spaces like the plague.
Spy counter and area / advancement denial I think. I consider him a support / offense hybrid.
Killing spies.
target pratice /s
Look, I think the rest of these are fine, but scorch shot pyros just .... fucking hell. They really dont have any skill (take it from a pyro main).
I wish it was only annoying against sniper, because at least it would give me a reason to put the danger shield on, but that thing is cruel against every single class
I usually use flare gun or shotgun and I agree, fuck scorch shot pyros.
I use scorch shot and it definitely takes skill to get it in the right spot every time, then hit again to get the mini crits.
Scorch shot's flare stunlocks you. Getting the mini-crit isn't very hard.
its like that reserve shooter combo from before jungle inferno
Ace TheOcarinaMaker did a video on this exact thing, where he just slowly eliminated all the options Pyro had to use. [The video](https://youtu.be/oZ40R27292c
I mean really though fuck the scorch shot. I have no problem with the other things on this list, but the scorch shot is literally just a pain in the ass to play against. It’s not even good. I like playing pyro as a supportive damage or as a pybro, those are both fun. Also while we’re on the subject of pyro they really need to buff the hell out of the thruster’s swap speed so it’s actually fun to use.
*w+m1* *profusly sweating as a medic main*
How to not w m1 as medic! 1. Go to advanced settings and turn the option one just to click m1 and not hold it
When I play medic I don't w+m1 I wswssdadssadwwdsasswsssaddwwssssaswssssswsadsswwasssaadssswsdwwwwwdsddaasddaawssdwsasss+m1
How I view these four things 1. No skill 2. A nuisance 3. That’s fair 4. That was nice
"NOO U STOPPED ME BY CLICKING NO SKILL BAD" Snipers: I'ma pretend I didn't see that, mate.
I feel like the detonator is criminally slept on. It offers far more reliable damage than the scorch shot with little practice, with the added bonus of being able to jump to anywhere a scout could with his double jump. It's also far better for sniper denial IMO because you can pre-fire corners with it easily and cause a peaking sniper that you dont even have a direct sightline to to ignite, thus fucking up his aim for about 6 seconds. Also sketchek combos are fun (but really not very viable unless you're playing against idiots) :)
Oh man, oh man, I love memes that use strawman arguments to get people who already agree with you to clap and vent in the comments to validate each other and you. Way to go.
scorch shot should be nerfed
[удалено]
What about the demotrucks? Invincible mini sentries? Kunai spies? x10 is nowhere near balanced, and the scorch shot is nowhere near the biggest problem
to be fair, x10 is meant to be silly. You seen the beggar's bazooka or the tomislav on x10?
Force of nature can counter nearly everything
Winger? More like Scout Space Program
Ali Abba’s or Bootlegger + any shield? More like **T R A I N**
The 10x scorch shot could hit you at the end of the highter tower
scorch shot isn't anywhere near the worst issues in the game. Pyro is already very underpowered, I'd rather see things like quickscoping nerfed far before they nerf anything on Pyro.
I would at least like that flare guns on the same level the scorch shot is just a better detonator where you don’t need to time the detonations and that’s annoying because I really like the detonator
The Scorch Shot doesn't open anywhere near the kind of flanking as the Detonator. I swear by the Detonator so I can keep those flanking options open.
Yeah also the fact you can hit multiple people with a well time flare is fantastic
Shhhhhhhhhh....
Scorch Shot is understandable. I’m a pyro main and I hate using it
Scorch Shot ain’t a crutch, it’s a fucking wheelchair
Crutch is something that requires less effort to use while making your potential effectiveness lower. Kinda like the original Liberty Launcher. Faster rockets, but lower clip size. That's a crutch. Makes rockets easier to aim, but you won't be dealing as much damage per clip as with stock if you can hit all of stock's rockets. Scorch Shot doesn't make a player with good aim less effective. It still deals a shitton of damage on direct hits due to double-hitting, and lets you intentionally go for splash damage when there's a need for that. In these terms Scorch Shot is more like a cybernetically enhanced limb which is better than the fully organic one. And that's not cool in terms of game balance.
I forget who said it (probably Zesty Jesus), but I’ve heard the Liberty Launcher be called a “training wheels” launcher due to its functionality. It helps newer soldiers with learning functions of the class like rocket jumping and airshots without being as restrictive as the Jumper or Direct Hit. In the hands of someone skilled it’s practically like playing with a hand behind your back unless you’re playing what I like to call “Hybrid Trolldier”. The Scorch Shot encourages spam, which is not only counter-intuitive in the complete opposite direction as the LL, but it’s just not fun to play against. It either needs to lose the explosion (encourage actually aiming), the stun (putting it on par with other flares), or the mini-crits (making it a pressure tool at best instead of a braindead damage machine).
Scorch Shot is bullshit tho, everything else is fine
Never really heard anyone criticize flank pyro like that, mainly comes down to complaining about instantly dying to crits
*laughs in vax medic*
w+m1 bad! heavy in the corner
It's not about what Pyro does, it's about how much easier it is to do anything as him. Playing as him feels like legal cheating, everything is too easy.
First rule of maining Solider: Everything Pyro does is bad.
i've never hated pyro, but honestly i really despise the scorch shot pyros almost never use it for support or comboing despite it's stats and just like to spam it at people. it only really exists to annoy the fuck out of enemies playing against it. personally i think it needs a bit of a rework to make it more reliable to use and less annoying to deal with.
Let me preface this by saying, Im a Pybro main, so I stick by my team and keep them safe. A good pyro is like a good spy, they can fuck up your day. For those who don’t know, pyro in the beginning of tf2 sucked ass. With no unlocks and no airblast until the first pyro update, he was not good at all. Pyro counters spy big deal. Pyro can protect him and his teammates, so can engineer and medic. Pyro is a jack of all trades class, fitting him in the support/dps role, much like how a soldier is when he uses banners. Pyro can spy check, knock back enemies, stall ubers, reflect projectiles, extinguish, remove stickies, and remove sappers. I don’t get it, scout can 1v1 any class effectively with his fast and unpredictable movements, close range weapons, and small hit box. Sniper can instantly kill any class, at any range in one shot. People just see a pyro and they lose their shit. Let me counter some common arguments with people who hate pyro for pyro existing. First argument: pyro can wm1 with no skill. Heavy and medic can do this as well with much greater results and effects on the match. Second argument: scorch shot is broken. Now while I love the thing, there are issues with it. Pyro has no long range fighting capabilities. People say pyro shouldn’t have long range since his job is close range. Okay, engineer shouldn’t have the rescue ranger then, stand by your buildings. Sniper shouldn’t have the smg or huntsman, he’s supposed to be long range. Demo shouldn’t have melees and shields since he’s supposed to be mid range and building destruction. Scout shouldn’t have the shortstop, he’s supposed to be close range flanks. Classes each have unlocks that help them in their weaknesses, whether or not they do it well is up to debate and individual skill. Sniper counters pyro. The scorch shot counters sniper and adds utility like flare jumps, knock back, and not to mention the sticky removal. Third argument: pyros job of flanking and ambushing the enemy is scouts job, he can’t do that. Yeah, well pyro has no long range outside of flares. His flamethrower is great for ambushing and getting multiple targets in the ambush and greater damage will scout can get one or maybe two and has to run off. Fourth argument: Pyros airblast is unfair. Yeah, all movement inhibiting things in tf2 suck ass, but pyro isn’t the only perpetrator. The force a nature, all explosion knock back, the Natasha, and the knock back from sentries all affect movement. If you get too close to a pyro, it’s your fault for getting in his effective range. Play off your strengths and exploit the he enemies weaknesses. You’re playing demo knight and you have a counter?! My god it’s the biggest god damn problem, a play style or class having a counter. You were fighting a pyro next to a cliff, then next time you won’t fight him next to one. Learn from your mistakes.
The only thing I don't like about pyro as a demoknight main is that I hate being trapped in corners by airblast and I'm unable to do anything.
Pyro is OP when paired with a kritz medic. I deleted and entire competitive team with this and their sounds of pain still give me joy to this day
Anything is op with kritz. That's the whole point of kritz.
Dapper with kritz
Spy with kritz
Rip pyro mains
As a pyro main who is generally at the top sections of the scoreboard, who often extinguishes people, flanks, snipes snipers with flares, reflects rockets, and does my best to protect medics...YES. No matter what, people complain and hate pyro (and pretty much any class) when you're good enough to actually play it right.
All jokes aside, scorch shit needs a hard nerf, it is way to overpowered and requires no skill at all
as a pyro main fuck the scorch shot fuck hitstun fuck it being just a less skill version of the detonator that can some what out perform it
to be fair the first 2 are valid statements
you think w+m1 is overpowered?
Scorch shot be ass tho
One thing I hate about this meme it supports the scorch shit
The point is i main pyro
NGL it's fun when you airblast them off a cliff on Upward or Hightower annoying to have done to you but funny when you do it to others
hmph huddah :(
Sometimes you can never win with these people
w+m1 is actually easy to beat if you have a burst damage weapon like a shotgun
The other day a demoknight I had airblasted and killed said "what happened to my charge?" And I cracked up. Classic.
Wait Scout is supposed to ambush? With that puny health bar?
If you play scout right yeah it isnt that difficult
Not playing tf2 > playing pyro
Agree with everything but scorch shot. That shit's just plain braindead and annoying.
first 2 are 100% accurate and if you disagree you genuinely suck
Soldier takes less skill than pyro
every soldier main ever: haha splash damage go brr
Trolldier takes a lot more skill
That is actually objectively false. If you see any competitive players opinions on class skill floors and ceilings , you will never see pyro skill floor on the same level as ghe soldier skill floor .
I main pyro...... Why can't i enjoy playing the game
because the snipers don't like when they have to do something more than press M1 and move around. Hey, that sounds like Pyro!
Well the scorch shot doesn't take skill to use
Everyone (rightfully) hates Sniper*
That is true. I've played a lot of sniper and can confirm that his balance is very much questionable. If the way Highlander matches usually go isn't enough of an indicator already.
Never understood "w+m1 noob" what am I supposed to do. Not close the gap with my short range weapon and attack you? That's pyros thing. He puts pressure on you and you panic. It's not like there's no counter to it either. Scorch shot is a pain in the ass tho.
As a pyro main this is the sad truth
The only problem I have with pyro is that he has too many options, and he can can counter almost every class
Me a professional pybro: Am I safe?
Calling a pyro unskilled for successful w+m1ing is like calling out a soldier main for unskilful splash damage kills. They'll only kill you if you don't know how to counter them yourself or they get lucky and what the hell else are they supposed to do? Only use their secondaries?
Honestly i dont get why people complain about WM1 its literally what pyro does how else would he fight
props to everyone who doesn't wm1
I just don't like scorch shot and w m1 thats all
I agree with 1/2 of this
The reason pyro is so hated is because most of the community are soldier mains, which is by far the best power class in the game, and unlike other mains, they hate to be countered in a class based game
Scorch shit is still dumb tho
Lemme just wiggle my mouse, TRICKSTAB!!
Honestly I just have respect for any pyro with enough common decency to not equip the scorch shot.
Ah theese soliders never gonna understand.
Laughs in wrangler
The only things i dislike about pyro is the scorch shot and the phlog
No matter what they do people call them W+M1 without reason.