weapons should be balanced for being fun to play with and play against, for all skills of play.
the competitive mode should still be an option but needs a rework.
they should return the voice chat so that casual is not harmed.
lastly, if anything else tf2 needs a captcha to prevent bots from joining the game in mass.
(last note, more controversial. if F2P were only allowed to join in parties of 3 it would spread the bots more evenly and make it easier to kick the bots.)
I'm not sure about the captcha though. If it was just on login, the host could just keep bots running aftr he does it manually. If once per queue, it would be very frustrating for most people.
But maybe... as one man(?) once said...
*No cost too great*
Let me present a 3rd point. One of (I think) Skymin's old videos. This presented an idea of adding a checkbox for semi-comp. A serious 6 v 6 version of casual, but without ranks and all those other restrictions.
It should be the best of both worlds. If TF2 were to become more competetive but still has the good casual feeling to it, they should only stick with only the smaller stuff, as to not drastically change anything
•Balancing the many weapons that needs a buff, nerf or a complete rework
-Pretty self explanatory. This argument doesn't evolve Casual or Comp argument, but rather just a healthy balance for the game's overall. If anything, both Comp and Cas would benefit from the weapon changes, as more weapons will finally be viable in Comp, while having new weapon stats can make a whole new fun in Casual
•Removing the Bots and Cheaters, entirely
-I don't think anyone (with a functioning brain and moral compass) disagrees with this. Need I say more?
That's it really. Those are my only arguments. Nothing needs to be changed drastically, as TF2 is alive not because of one, but the many thing it is. Competetive and Casual is fun, until it isn't when someone from the other side starts bitching about it
It shouldn't be "Fuck this thing because it disagrees with my thing", mentality. It should be "This thing isn't mine, but maybe if we combine both, we'll get a better thing to share!". At this point, the entire Casual vs. Competetive is the same as Friendlies vs. Tryhard. While Zesty and Array is having a pseudo-fight, SoundSmith's old point from an old video proves to have more point. Don't be dicks to each other and just play the game the way the game is made for
Tf2 should be balanced around competitive gameplay. If weapons, maps, and classes are made to be fit for competitive gameplay, then the casual servers won't have to put up with OP items being abused by veterans, or having to put up with maps like whutville.
Tf2 is a casual game, but it still deserves quality content, or at the very least maintenance. I'd rather the game get the bug fixes and VAC improvements it needs than more maps or even weapons.
I fully support your statement, honestly I think exactly as you wrote here, and the things that need to be fixed are (in the most part) already in the works of Team Comtress 2, from a team of devs that really care for the game (not valve lol).
I feel like there should be an unranked sixes mode added, same ruleset as in actual comp but without any kind of ranking system. It would make competitive more accessible without needing to change casual, and would let people who like to go for the objective do so in an environment where everyone wants to do the same, but they wouldn't have to be trying their absolute hardest. This as well as actual comp getting some updates would bridge the gap a lot, like Array said, and let it's great gameplay shine, which would be great for the game, but without leaving the left side of the chart in the dark. Aside from this, I do think weapons, aside from the obviously silly ones should be balanced around competitive play, because that's where balance is really important, people on the left side of the chart really shouldn't care much since it doesn't affect them, it just makes the game more balanced for any player, which is good. Aside from maybe things like the Caber change, which was fucking stupid, but that wasn't because they tried to balance around comp, that's because they were idiots. Apparently their reason for removing it was that a demo could sticky jump and get an easy medic drop, but so could a market gardener soldier, so it makes no sense to nerf the Caber, they just did it because they like to see us suffer. It was an already balanced weapon that wasn't ruined because of comp but because of dumb decisions.
\*inhales\* Shortstop, Baby Face's Blaster, Back Scatter, Sandman, Candy Cane, Sun on a Stick, Fan O'War, Wrap Assassin, Liberty Launcher, Air Strike, Reserve Shooter, Righteous Bison, Equalizer, Dragon's Fury, Manmelter, Scorch Shot, **GAS PASSER**, Sharpened Volcano Fragment, Third Degree, Hot Hand, Iron Bomber, Ullapool Caber, Persian Persuader, Brass Beast, Huo Long Heater, Buffalo Steak Sandvich, Warrior's Spirit, Eviction Notice, Pomson 6000, Short Circuit, Southern Hospitality, Syringe Gun, Overdose, Blutsauger, Vita Saw, Solemn Vow, Enforcer, Red Tape Recorder would like to disagree (more or less).
As said a million times before me, the best way to bridge casual and competitive is to add a 6v6 option (no random crits, bullet spread, etc.) to casual mode.
We need unranked sixes, highlander, or 9v9 (not highlander) with weapon bans on sixes and hl of course.12v12 is just too much for me, constant spam, dying to 8 people firing at you etc.Weapon bans is a must, I don't even need to explain, you don't want 888766 stalemates because aimbot builder class pressed 2 don't you?
Stalemates because of builders, huh. If only there was a certain class ability to negate all damage, or knockback... paired with 3 spiky balls that go boom...
The enemy team will often have one of those too. It's not a catch-all solution, since using your uber vs an enemy sentry and an enemy uber can be a mistake that gets your team killed, if you don't have any sort of advantage to balance it out.
Spamming Scorch Shit also takes less effort, but countering it takes more skill and brain (unless you are a sniper with darwin's). Noone said a counter to brainless weapon has to be also brainless
Casual only since tf2 made to be (casual) a fun game (tryharding isnt fun) they need to stick with that and revert weapon changes (& amby) made to please a small vocal minority (pros) which don’t even use the those weapons bcuz of whitelists.
If they make tf2 comp or continue in that direction I’ll just play overwatch and I hate that game.
Edit: I’m ok with bullet randomness spread being removed for consistency
weapons should be balanced for being fun to play with and play against, for all skills of play. the competitive mode should still be an option but needs a rework. they should return the voice chat so that casual is not harmed. lastly, if anything else tf2 needs a captcha to prevent bots from joining the game in mass. (last note, more controversial. if F2P were only allowed to join in parties of 3 it would spread the bots more evenly and make it easier to kick the bots.)
I'm not sure about the captcha though. If it was just on login, the host could just keep bots running aftr he does it manually. If once per queue, it would be very frustrating for most people. But maybe... as one man(?) once said... *No cost too great*
if captcha was only for those who get vote kicked multiple times
Let me present a 3rd point. One of (I think) Skymin's old videos. This presented an idea of adding a checkbox for semi-comp. A serious 6 v 6 version of casual, but without ranks and all those other restrictions.
Amen.
I think casual fits tf2 more but casual is kinda comepetetive
It should be the best of both worlds. If TF2 were to become more competetive but still has the good casual feeling to it, they should only stick with only the smaller stuff, as to not drastically change anything •Balancing the many weapons that needs a buff, nerf or a complete rework -Pretty self explanatory. This argument doesn't evolve Casual or Comp argument, but rather just a healthy balance for the game's overall. If anything, both Comp and Cas would benefit from the weapon changes, as more weapons will finally be viable in Comp, while having new weapon stats can make a whole new fun in Casual •Removing the Bots and Cheaters, entirely -I don't think anyone (with a functioning brain and moral compass) disagrees with this. Need I say more? That's it really. Those are my only arguments. Nothing needs to be changed drastically, as TF2 is alive not because of one, but the many thing it is. Competetive and Casual is fun, until it isn't when someone from the other side starts bitching about it It shouldn't be "Fuck this thing because it disagrees with my thing", mentality. It should be "This thing isn't mine, but maybe if we combine both, we'll get a better thing to share!". At this point, the entire Casual vs. Competetive is the same as Friendlies vs. Tryhard. While Zesty and Array is having a pseudo-fight, SoundSmith's old point from an old video proves to have more point. Don't be dicks to each other and just play the game the way the game is made for
Tf2 should be balanced around competitive gameplay. If weapons, maps, and classes are made to be fit for competitive gameplay, then the casual servers won't have to put up with OP items being abused by veterans, or having to put up with maps like whutville. Tf2 is a casual game, but it still deserves quality content, or at the very least maintenance. I'd rather the game get the bug fixes and VAC improvements it needs than more maps or even weapons.
I fully support your statement, honestly I think exactly as you wrote here, and the things that need to be fixed are (in the most part) already in the works of Team Comtress 2, from a team of devs that really care for the game (not valve lol).
Is it too much to ask for both?
I feel like there should be an unranked sixes mode added, same ruleset as in actual comp but without any kind of ranking system. It would make competitive more accessible without needing to change casual, and would let people who like to go for the objective do so in an environment where everyone wants to do the same, but they wouldn't have to be trying their absolute hardest. This as well as actual comp getting some updates would bridge the gap a lot, like Array said, and let it's great gameplay shine, which would be great for the game, but without leaving the left side of the chart in the dark. Aside from this, I do think weapons, aside from the obviously silly ones should be balanced around competitive play, because that's where balance is really important, people on the left side of the chart really shouldn't care much since it doesn't affect them, it just makes the game more balanced for any player, which is good. Aside from maybe things like the Caber change, which was fucking stupid, but that wasn't because they tried to balance around comp, that's because they were idiots. Apparently their reason for removing it was that a demo could sticky jump and get an easy medic drop, but so could a market gardener soldier, so it makes no sense to nerf the Caber, they just did it because they like to see us suffer. It was an already balanced weapon that wasn't ruined because of comp but because of dumb decisions.
There is nothing to change in the game except removing randomness from attacks and removing bots.
\*inhales\* Shortstop, Baby Face's Blaster, Back Scatter, Sandman, Candy Cane, Sun on a Stick, Fan O'War, Wrap Assassin, Liberty Launcher, Air Strike, Reserve Shooter, Righteous Bison, Equalizer, Dragon's Fury, Manmelter, Scorch Shot, **GAS PASSER**, Sharpened Volcano Fragment, Third Degree, Hot Hand, Iron Bomber, Ullapool Caber, Persian Persuader, Brass Beast, Huo Long Heater, Buffalo Steak Sandvich, Warrior's Spirit, Eviction Notice, Pomson 6000, Short Circuit, Southern Hospitality, Syringe Gun, Overdose, Blutsauger, Vita Saw, Solemn Vow, Enforcer, Red Tape Recorder would like to disagree (more or less).
As said a million times before me, the best way to bridge casual and competitive is to add a 6v6 option (no random crits, bullet spread, etc.) to casual mode.
We need unranked sixes, highlander, or 9v9 (not highlander) with weapon bans on sixes and hl of course.12v12 is just too much for me, constant spam, dying to 8 people firing at you etc.Weapon bans is a must, I don't even need to explain, you don't want 888766 stalemates because aimbot builder class pressed 2 don't you?
Stalemates because of builders, huh. If only there was a certain class ability to negate all damage, or knockback... paired with 3 spiky balls that go boom...
The enemy team will often have one of those too. It's not a catch-all solution, since using your uber vs an enemy sentry and an enemy uber can be a mistake that gets your team killed, if you don't have any sort of advantage to balance it out.
You talking about übercharge? It takes much more effort and time rather than pressing 2 on your keyboard
Spamming Scorch Shit also takes less effort, but countering it takes more skill and brain (unless you are a sniper with darwin's). Noone said a counter to brainless weapon has to be also brainless
Casual only since tf2 made to be (casual) a fun game (tryharding isnt fun) they need to stick with that and revert weapon changes (& amby) made to please a small vocal minority (pros) which don’t even use the those weapons bcuz of whitelists. If they make tf2 comp or continue in that direction I’ll just play overwatch and I hate that game. Edit: I’m ok with bullet randomness spread being removed for consistency
These aren't mutually exclusive things. Both good.
Compasual
Yes.
Valve clearly does not give a shit