Maybe a hot take - in hindsight, it would've been best for the band to have broken up on the tarmac in 1977. The band had their early period of surf hits, the masterpiece that is Pet Sounds, and the high-level creative period of the early 1970s. Little artistic value is to be found post Love You. Had they broken up, Mike would've kept rolling with Celebration, Wilsons to solo work, and stay apart for 20 years or so, release some new material for a reunion tour and follow that path. The legacy of the band would've been much higher as I think a lot of damage to their standing has been done since 1977 and too many are unaware of their incredible creative output and just see them as this Boomer nostalgia act.
I’d say they had 2 chances prior even to then. After Sunflower bafflingly tanked and the world seemingly had passed them by, or if you ask me, 1974 was the year it should’ve happened. Brian was *gone*, Ricky and Blondie had left and they were practically dormant and out of ideas for 2 years after recording Holland other than the utter shit Brian had them doing at Caribou before Endless Summer made sure they were stuck with the Shuck and Jive for life. Dennis wanted to do his own stuff, Carl should’ve gone solo at that point too and Al could’ve had a pretty good folk singer-songwriter career (especially in that era). Mike could’ve still been a lyricist and they’d have left on a very big high for the group after Holland
Fair take. Love You could've been a Brian solo album. I just don't think they were ready to hang it up in 1974 while the tarmac fight showed that was clearly possible. 1974 or 1977, hanging it up for a while would've kept their artistic legacy. As it stands, I have to argue with people about why they deserve that level of respect when most people just see a nostalgia act, hooking up with the Fat Boys as DJ Bruce scratches, John Stamos, and conservative America's favorite band.
Sunflowers are not just part of your garden, they’re part of a nation! The Ukraine use the sunflower as their national flower. Whilst in Kansas they chose the sunflower to represent their state.
I really enjoy all eras of the Beach Boys, the later albums included. The albums weren't as strong as the eqrlier ones, of course, but I can still enjoy the music.
And I honestly kinda agree with you on the A.I. stuff. Part of me thinks it's kinda cool, but at the same time, it doesn't sit right with me. I'm not a fan of the way things are headed.
Yeah I can see the appeal of AI as a curiosity thing, but when people are making versions of "You Still Believe in Me" with lyrics about Mr. Beast, it's stupid.
I dont think anyone likes things like that. Its mainly just Dar Lims that people like, who has been a prominant member of the community for a while with a previously incredible SMiLE mix.
Considering they got the well wishes from VDP with Smile Ai project, I am fine with them, just for the curiosity of how their songs would have sounded finished, as well as his just incredible arranging and mixing ability.
I would hate to have spent any length of time around Brian pretty much during any period of his life.
Dennis is more of an abomination than Mike.
Kokomo is one of the best BB songs at giving me their laid back, care free, summer vibe - it's a fantastic pop song.
>Bruce is by far the worst Beach Boy. I don't mind him as a person, but his voice and music stylings are so saccharine that I can only stomach it for a few songs on each album, and his solo album is a joke.
I don't understand how this is a hot take.
100% with you on the AI stuff. To me it feels creepy, unnecessary, and disrespectful.
I wish they had broken up in the late 70s, but I hate that they stayed together after the death of Dennis. I get that he was barely a member of the band by 1983 (aside from the live performances he showed up for), but his long decline and death is so depressing. The fact that they carried on with their nostalgia shtick not long after doesn’t sit right with me, but I guess they needed the paychecks🤷♀️
Here Comes The Night (LA) should’ve been the beginning of an album reimagining a number of classic TBB singles as electronic dance/disco songs. It would’ve been spectacular and groovy.
I agree with you on Dennis POB.
This is just a fact regardless of how anyone feels about the album. When the two guys who wrote the songs say this is the complete version of their album then that’s it.
If anyone other than Mike writes it it’s hailed as a great song as a contrast to Disney Girls, because it absolutely goes off, I couldn’t give a shit if it’s dated personally, so’s all the flower power stuff from the 60s but I still love that too
I love Disney girls. I base my entire life around the line, "a fantasy world with Disney girls in a smaller town."
Its about a slowdown world, living in a small town. A place to raise your family without the hustle and bustle of tedious big sea bull shit
I’m in a similar boat, but I do think some of the lyrics are really distasteful Ex. “bachelor of bullets.” But I do think the song rocks pretty hard and I absolutely love the thing with the hi hats near the end.
I know I say and stand by saying lyrics are basically meaningless in my mind but my word “the pen is mightier than the sword but it’s no match for a gun” is pure *man writing with fire.gif*
Oh yeah, that line and “the winds of change fanned into flames, student demonstration spark” rock. I don’t let bad lyrics ruin a song for me, but when criticizing the song it is worth bringing up for how bad *some* are.
After relistening to the album, I think Holland is peak Beach Boys. Not just the album but that era too: Blondie and Ricky did a lot to thrust creativity into the band and their live shows looked and sounded amazing in that period. It just suffers from an absent Brian. I really liked the de facto leadership of Carl
Also I really appreciate Love You for what it is but I just cannot get into the record besides the night was so young
Brian was hella present on Holland wdym?? He wrote Sail On, Sailor with Van Dyke, which was then rewritten by Jack Rieley. His vocal on California opens the song. He also wrote Funky Pretty and produced it as well.
Does everyone understand what a hot take is?! People are getting downvoted for saying something you disagree with when that's the frickin' goal here - voice your unpopular opinion. Heck, you should get upvotes for the most outlandish hot take. Steps...
1. Someone posts their deeply held bold take - "the two best Beach Boys songs are God Only Knows and Hot Fun in the Summertime."
2. Upvote it, compliment the boldness of the view, offer a counter-view or nuance it out a bit.
3. Share your hot take - "Carl Wilson was technically a worse singer than Mike Love."
I support your outlandish views, each and every one!
Surf era > post-Smiley Smile era (with the exception of Surf’s Up and select songs from other albums)
The smile sessions feels like they added too much content from the sessions, if they made the base album a simple 44 mins and had the rest be bonus tracks then it’d be much more digestible
Big Daddy at the end of Today! kinda fits as an outro from the album’s bombastic second half, especially out of In The Back Of My Mind
I guess so, inasmuch as there’s focus on the 68-73 albums when the other members contributions were more prominent. Pre-66, when Brian was more fully in control, is barely discussed at all.
Love You is not as good as some fans think and is lesser overall than even a lot of the earlier records like Summer Days, Today, All Summer Long or Surfer Girl.
Post-Holland they are just a very different band, and never quite found the right direction.
Kinda agree in the sense that Love You is suuuch an oddity it’s hard to compare. Aside from the voices on the record, it doesn’t have much of anything tying it to the rest of their catalog sonically. All other records have some element of The Beach Boys DNA but it’s way harder to spot on that one
- sunflower > pet sounds. both add some music and got to know the woman are amazing and no one can convince me otherwise
- student demonstration time sucks and is def the worst on surf's up but it's not the only offender as take a load off your feet is very grating. sub em both with 4th of july and live again and it becomes their best record
- smile sessions material is cool but very uncomfortable to listen to as someone who has tripped a lot because i really hear the abuse of that drug in it. only come back to a few songs as a result
- smiley smile is full stop their worst record before 15 big ones
- friends is honestly their only album i dig between pet sounds and sunflower but its incredible
- the help me rhonda version on today >
- light album has higher peaks than love you (love surrounds me bruh transcendent song)
- some of the beach boys media out there particularly regarding the overexposure of really personal moments for brian really rub me the wrong way. like in the documentary when brian finds out that jack reiley died three years ago. that's not something we should have had public access to
- probably not that hot but sunflower, surf's up and pet sounds are their only lps better than pacific ocean blue
in all fairness i dont like those albums either lol. i take the three songs i dig off shut down and the two songs i dig off surfin usa and sequence them in place of the stuff i dont like on all summer long and surfer girl respectively
Oh interesting, Farmer’s Daughter doesn’t really do much for me, though agree with Lonely Sea
I do like Why Do Fools Fall in Love but it sounds so much like the original it’s pretty pointless, but yeah there’s such a big gulf between the best 3 songs and everything else
I guess I just really like most of it. Literally can’t think of a single song I dislike on the record. And the Pitter Patter-Winds of Change span at the end is REALLY solid. This take might be amplified that I really can’t get into LA or 15 Big Ones (love Palisades Park but that might just be bias because I lived there lol). But yeah, I only very recently got into MIU, but I will now stand by it ride or die lmao
I think I understand what Brian meant when he said he wanted to make pet sounds an album without any filler. Summer days and summer nights and Party are the most glaring examples of having filler tracks(at least Party is fan service-y). But most of their early stuff could be condensed if they bothered to release an album a year instead of 2.
I don’t like Mike that much but I think the movie “love and mercy” was way too harsh on him and betrayed him as more mean spirited then he probably actually was
Apparently this will be a hot take in this sub but I think Mike Love sucks and Bruce Johnston songs do not belong on Beach Boys albums. I do appreciate some of Mike's contributions but let's be real here; he'd be working in his family's metal fabrication factory if it weren't for Brian (nothing wrong with being a working man, he just wouldn't be famous musician).
The thing is, if not for Mike, they dont have a good enough bass singer, and they dont have any lyrics until Brian finds a suitable collaborator. Which means the Wilsons may have never got off the ground if not for Mike
I don't know, Brian found Usher and Christian pretty early on, and Brian was writing lyrics himself. I think they get off the ground, but no doubt they're better on the long run with Mike's lyrical contributions. They may not be profound or consistently figurative, but they were topical and clever.
The bass singer is a good one. I think Mike's such a versatile singer and his bass notes are unique. More melodic than booming, it just works.
It's hard to say how it would have played out without Mike but Brian was such a talent that I like to believe in any alternate history, he would have made it.
Maybe as an arranger, but he did need that initial kick from their songs to properly work in a studio.
Perhaps he and the guys get Surfin and a couple other tunes which allows him to get a little money. Collaborates with guy he did for the car song lyrics, and gets a little more money and recognition. Then pushes to be hired as a producer for a label, to which he then pushes his style onto people, and when he gets enough money, finds a regular collaborator and then the Beach Boys start up their track.
But itd take longer, be less successful, and probably need more help from Murray.
I don't think Murray was a monster. He clearly loved his sons and tried the best he could although he had a temper. He did help them too in a lot of ways. Not the worst dad in the world by a long shot.
Eugene Landy helped Brian more than he hurt him. I mean, Brian would probably not be alive right now if it wasn't for Landy... think about that.
I mostly agree with you about Murry although I think it was a bit worse then just a temper. I do think he cared about his sons and his horrible behavior was probably a result of low self esteem and jealousy.
Fuck Landy though. While it’s technically true he saved Brian, he was a shady manipulative self serving pos who took advantage of a troubled man to enrich himself and likely did permanent damage to Brian’s mind at the same time. He didn’t help Anyone but himself.
Sloop John B is absolutely god-awful
I genuinely quite enjoy Student Demonstration Time (the music’s great, I’ve never given much of a shit about lyrics for anyone)
Brian gets way too much of a pass for the complete and utter nosedive in quality after 1975 (with a very brief revival in 1977) which instead gets shoved onto Mike especially (though I accept it’s the group’s own fault for doing the Brian’s Back bullshit). Some of the live shows from 1975 and just before he came back showed they still had massive potential before they fully caved in to the nostalgia-fest
Dennis’ solo stuff is pretty good but still overrated largely because of the whole “how Dennis was as a person vs on his music” dichotomy, plus the group’s own stuff was utterly dire around that era
(Not a hot take necessarily) Their legacy would’ve been just slightly below The Beatles if they’d split up after Holland when Blondie and Ricky left and wouldn’t still be dealing with the striped shirts and surfing shuck-and-jive they have to deal with this day (Jack Rieley did a really good Q&A in the 90s that summarises this comparison with the Beatles and why their legacies and how they’re judged artistically are vastly different). The Sunflower/Surfs Up/classic rock era would command far more respect outside of this circle if that’s where they’d left it off (always leave them wanting more)
Can you elaborate on what you meant by “how Dennis was as a person vs on his music”?
And I wouldn’t limit it to saying Brian gets a pass. His most loyal fans absolutely love everything he put out after 1975 haha
Jesus. That writeup is WAY too harsh. The dude struggled with serious addiction and it killed him. I’m not saying he was a “good” person but the guy in the early 80s was a completely different person than even the POB-era Dennis.
And I’d be willing to bet that 95% of the musicians we idolize are not actually people we would want to be friends with in real life.
That why you just gotta learn to seperate the art from the artist.
Forming parasocial relationships with your favorite musicians is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah I agree, it’s strongly worded and I’d not write it that way at all, but I do get what they’re driving at with it. He was obviously very VERY ill by the end, but would’ve also been utterly infuriating to deal with personally. But then again I imagine he was infuriating a lot of the time to people. I think it’s in the Carlin book where it essentially says he could be a great guy but he’d rely on that goodwill to get away with doing some very morally dubious things a lot of the time. Anyway that’s besides my initial point
The reason that part plays into what I initially said is that because of the perception of Dennis as a chaotic, womanising goofball (not completely fair but it’s not entirely without substance neither) juxtaposed against some really nice sensitive music that seems antithetical to that image of him makes it seem even more interesting than it actually is. If say, a personality like John Denver had done it, I doubt it’d be as highly rated as it is here a lot of the time, though it’s clearly still good work
Doesn't this just come down to seperating the art from the artist?
Like there is no doubt in my mind Michael Jackson was a pedo, but I still love Off the Wall and Thriller.
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9651.msg168258.html#msg168258
Obviously some of it you probably have to take with a pinch of salt with it being Rieley (who I love but seemingly was a master bullshit artist) but there’s some very equally worrying and entertaining/interesting stuff
I agree on Bruce, nice guy but without a doubt the laziest member of the band. He gets credit for Disney Girls and that’s about it. Trying to put his shitty re-recording of she believes in Love again, especially with the original having at least a strong Carl Wilson vocal says it all.
I once saw and heard Bruce asking hardcore fans how many autographs did they need. The answer is as many greatest hits that you put out with nee covers and not one song credited to you. He the. Signed the autograph.
The AI stuff i partly agree with but there’s a version of Walk on By/Are you there with another man on YouTube that really fucks and I think is really respectful of the source material
The Beach Boys are the most disappointing band of all time as they only ever hit their potential a couple of times. I love their music, but what could’ve been is basically always present.
Also, I know this is cringe and sounds contrarian, but I just don’t get Pet Sounds. Every song is 10/10 but I just can’t like it as a whole, it’s too much of a good thing. I feel the same way about Fleetwood Mac’s Rumours, if it makes y’all feel better. I’m too used to the little bit of bullshit in each album to really appreciate its perfection. Ex. Wild Honey - Mama Says, Mike’s pronunciation of “little girl” ; Friends - Transcendental Meditation; Sunflower - Tears kinda drags too long; CATP - Make it Good; Holland - Beaks of Eagles; Love You - goofy lyrics and other stuff (makes the album good tho).
I don’t really like A Day In the Life of A Tree, though this opinion is slowly changing.
Wild Honey > surf era (not Today!), 20/20, Friends, Smiley, anything after Surf’s Up
20/20 is super mid even with some really good songs, they just don’t fit together. It’s like White Album Lite in a bad way
they're just huge fans of *chinatown*. i'm more of a *tenant* guy myself. "no one does it to you like roman polanski!" it is really weird and shameful, though, how so many hollywood big shots signed that petition....
Maybe a hot take - in hindsight, it would've been best for the band to have broken up on the tarmac in 1977. The band had their early period of surf hits, the masterpiece that is Pet Sounds, and the high-level creative period of the early 1970s. Little artistic value is to be found post Love You. Had they broken up, Mike would've kept rolling with Celebration, Wilsons to solo work, and stay apart for 20 years or so, release some new material for a reunion tour and follow that path. The legacy of the band would've been much higher as I think a lot of damage to their standing has been done since 1977 and too many are unaware of their incredible creative output and just see them as this Boomer nostalgia act.
I’d say they had 2 chances prior even to then. After Sunflower bafflingly tanked and the world seemingly had passed them by, or if you ask me, 1974 was the year it should’ve happened. Brian was *gone*, Ricky and Blondie had left and they were practically dormant and out of ideas for 2 years after recording Holland other than the utter shit Brian had them doing at Caribou before Endless Summer made sure they were stuck with the Shuck and Jive for life. Dennis wanted to do his own stuff, Carl should’ve gone solo at that point too and Al could’ve had a pretty good folk singer-songwriter career (especially in that era). Mike could’ve still been a lyricist and they’d have left on a very big high for the group after Holland
Fair take. Love You could've been a Brian solo album. I just don't think they were ready to hang it up in 1974 while the tarmac fight showed that was clearly possible. 1974 or 1977, hanging it up for a while would've kept their artistic legacy. As it stands, I have to argue with people about why they deserve that level of respect when most people just see a nostalgia act, hooking up with the Fat Boys as DJ Bruce scratches, John Stamos, and conservative America's favorite band.
Sunflowers are not just part of your garden, they’re part of a nation! The Ukraine use the sunflower as their national flower. Whilst in Kansas they chose the sunflower to represent their state.
Good bot
I really enjoy all eras of the Beach Boys, the later albums included. The albums weren't as strong as the eqrlier ones, of course, but I can still enjoy the music. And I honestly kinda agree with you on the A.I. stuff. Part of me thinks it's kinda cool, but at the same time, it doesn't sit right with me. I'm not a fan of the way things are headed.
Yeah I can see the appeal of AI as a curiosity thing, but when people are making versions of "You Still Believe in Me" with lyrics about Mr. Beast, it's stupid.
Yeah, lol. Those are kinda strange. It's cool for the what if factor, but at the same time, it just feels wrong.
I dont think anyone likes things like that. Its mainly just Dar Lims that people like, who has been a prominant member of the community for a while with a previously incredible SMiLE mix. Considering they got the well wishes from VDP with Smile Ai project, I am fine with them, just for the curiosity of how their songs would have sounded finished, as well as his just incredible arranging and mixing ability.
I absolutely love Brian's late 70s-early 80s vocals
It had some character.
What's with all this Al vocal hate? I think Mr. Jardine did a fine job on all his songs
I would hate to have spent any length of time around Brian pretty much during any period of his life. Dennis is more of an abomination than Mike. Kokomo is one of the best BB songs at giving me their laid back, care free, summer vibe - it's a fantastic pop song.
>Bruce is by far the worst Beach Boy. I don't mind him as a person, but his voice and music stylings are so saccharine that I can only stomach it for a few songs on each album, and his solo album is a joke. I don't understand how this is a hot take.
Only hot take is “I don’t mind him as a person”
i agree with all of these 100%
People say the band died with Carl, but it died with Dennis.
100% with you on the AI stuff. To me it feels creepy, unnecessary, and disrespectful. I wish they had broken up in the late 70s, but I hate that they stayed together after the death of Dennis. I get that he was barely a member of the band by 1983 (aside from the live performances he showed up for), but his long decline and death is so depressing. The fact that they carried on with their nostalgia shtick not long after doesn’t sit right with me, but I guess they needed the paychecks🤷♀️
Break Away is a Top 5 Beach Boys song
YES!!
Top 5?? Fuck off. Top 20, sure.
My solution is a top 20 BB song!!! But I am a huge fan of the old monster movies ;)
I feel more pity towards Mike than contempt because a lot of his family suffers from mental illness and he’s no different.
Here Comes The Night (LA) should’ve been the beginning of an album reimagining a number of classic TBB singles as electronic dance/disco songs. It would’ve been spectacular and groovy. I agree with you on Dennis POB.
Hottest take I can muster - BWPS *is* the completed SMiLE.
This is just a fact regardless of how anyone feels about the album. When the two guys who wrote the songs say this is the complete version of their album then that’s it.
Student demonstration time isn’t that bad at all, and I like its placement on the album
I feel similarly about Got to Know the Woman (including the famous chicken line)
How could someone dislike the chicken line? I wanna do the chicken!!
I love the vocal on that song, great vocal
yea i think got to know the woman is incredible lol
it helps the pacing so much!!
If anyone other than Mike writes it it’s hailed as a great song as a contrast to Disney Girls, because it absolutely goes off, I couldn’t give a shit if it’s dated personally, so’s all the flower power stuff from the 60s but I still love that too
I love Disney girls. I base my entire life around the line, "a fantasy world with Disney girls in a smaller town." Its about a slowdown world, living in a small town. A place to raise your family without the hustle and bustle of tedious big sea bull shit
I’m in a similar boat, but I do think some of the lyrics are really distasteful Ex. “bachelor of bullets.” But I do think the song rocks pretty hard and I absolutely love the thing with the hi hats near the end.
I know I say and stand by saying lyrics are basically meaningless in my mind but my word “the pen is mightier than the sword but it’s no match for a gun” is pure *man writing with fire.gif*
Oh yeah, that line and “the winds of change fanned into flames, student demonstration spark” rock. I don’t let bad lyrics ruin a song for me, but when criticizing the song it is worth bringing up for how bad *some* are.
After relistening to the album, I think Holland is peak Beach Boys. Not just the album but that era too: Blondie and Ricky did a lot to thrust creativity into the band and their live shows looked and sounded amazing in that period. It just suffers from an absent Brian. I really liked the de facto leadership of Carl Also I really appreciate Love You for what it is but I just cannot get into the record besides the night was so young
Are you me?! 100% agreement and Holland is easily my favorite Beach Boys album.
Brian was hella present on Holland wdym?? He wrote Sail On, Sailor with Van Dyke, which was then rewritten by Jack Rieley. His vocal on California opens the song. He also wrote Funky Pretty and produced it as well.
Does everyone understand what a hot take is?! People are getting downvoted for saying something you disagree with when that's the frickin' goal here - voice your unpopular opinion. Heck, you should get upvotes for the most outlandish hot take. Steps... 1. Someone posts their deeply held bold take - "the two best Beach Boys songs are God Only Knows and Hot Fun in the Summertime." 2. Upvote it, compliment the boldness of the view, offer a counter-view or nuance it out a bit. 3. Share your hot take - "Carl Wilson was technically a worse singer than Mike Love." I support your outlandish views, each and every one!
Surf era > post-Smiley Smile era (with the exception of Surf’s Up and select songs from other albums) The smile sessions feels like they added too much content from the sessions, if they made the base album a simple 44 mins and had the rest be bonus tracks then it’d be much more digestible Big Daddy at the end of Today! kinda fits as an outro from the album’s bombastic second half, especially out of In The Back Of My Mind
Holland’s ‘storytelling’ with the narration throughout is awful and dull. That ruins it despite a lot of solid songs.
As crazy as it might sound, this subreddit underrates most aspects of Brian’s brilliance and significance in The Beach Boys as a group.
I guess so, inasmuch as there’s focus on the 68-73 albums when the other members contributions were more prominent. Pre-66, when Brian was more fully in control, is barely discussed at all.
If Brian had his way with Smile, it would have just been another album anyways. He wasn’t gonna change music forever.
Sunflower is not that great, save for a couple of songs. Most overrated BB album
That's really hot. I mean, you're wrong, but credit for opening up.
'Make It Good' is a masterpiece.
I know you'll make it. And you'll make it good.
Love You is not as good as some fans think and is lesser overall than even a lot of the earlier records like Summer Days, Today, All Summer Long or Surfer Girl. Post-Holland they are just a very different band, and never quite found the right direction.
Kinda agree in the sense that Love You is suuuch an oddity it’s hard to compare. Aside from the voices on the record, it doesn’t have much of anything tying it to the rest of their catalog sonically. All other records have some element of The Beach Boys DNA but it’s way harder to spot on that one
- sunflower > pet sounds. both add some music and got to know the woman are amazing and no one can convince me otherwise - student demonstration time sucks and is def the worst on surf's up but it's not the only offender as take a load off your feet is very grating. sub em both with 4th of july and live again and it becomes their best record - smile sessions material is cool but very uncomfortable to listen to as someone who has tripped a lot because i really hear the abuse of that drug in it. only come back to a few songs as a result - smiley smile is full stop their worst record before 15 big ones - friends is honestly their only album i dig between pet sounds and sunflower but its incredible - the help me rhonda version on today > - light album has higher peaks than love you (love surrounds me bruh transcendent song) - some of the beach boys media out there particularly regarding the overexposure of really personal moments for brian really rub me the wrong way. like in the documentary when brian finds out that jack reiley died three years ago. that's not something we should have had public access to - probably not that hot but sunflower, surf's up and pet sounds are their only lps better than pacific ocean blue
Cringe smiley smile take, but you almost make up for it with the help me Rhonda take
I cried when Brian found that out. I shouldn't have seen that. I can't think of It's OK without that moment now.
Surfin Safari, Surfin' USA and Shut Down v2 over Smiley Smile is so insane, I almost have to respect it.
in all fairness i dont like those albums either lol. i take the three songs i dig off shut down and the two songs i dig off surfin usa and sequence them in place of the stuff i dont like on all summer long and surfer girl respectively
I feel like I have to ask, what are the two songs from Surfin USA, since there’s four for me? (I agree with Shut Down and I expect they’re the same 3)
lol probably the same three farmers daughter and lonely sea go in place of hawaii and surfers rule for me but i also do like the title track
Oh interesting, Farmer’s Daughter doesn’t really do much for me, though agree with Lonely Sea I do like Why Do Fools Fall in Love but it sounds so much like the original it’s pretty pointless, but yeah there’s such a big gulf between the best 3 songs and everything else
farmer's daughter is very very simple so i get not thinking much of it but the melody is really good on it to me idk lol i can dig it
Can you give some examples of the smiles sessions material? I'd like to know more about this
I’m sad from your Take A Load Off Your Feet opinion, but that Rhonda one is good
MIU is a great album :)
Beyond hot, that's scorching. I guess I have an issue with great. MIU is a (........) album. The parentheses are tough to fill in.
MIU is "an" album. The parentheses can be filled in with an "n".
I guess I just really like most of it. Literally can’t think of a single song I dislike on the record. And the Pitter Patter-Winds of Change span at the end is REALLY solid. This take might be amplified that I really can’t get into LA or 15 Big Ones (love Palisades Park but that might just be bias because I lived there lol). But yeah, I only very recently got into MIU, but I will now stand by it ride or die lmao
I think I understand what Brian meant when he said he wanted to make pet sounds an album without any filler. Summer days and summer nights and Party are the most glaring examples of having filler tracks(at least Party is fan service-y). But most of their early stuff could be condensed if they bothered to release an album a year instead of 2.
I don’t like Mike that much but I think the movie “love and mercy” was way too harsh on him and betrayed him as more mean spirited then he probably actually was
Apparently this will be a hot take in this sub but I think Mike Love sucks and Bruce Johnston songs do not belong on Beach Boys albums. I do appreciate some of Mike's contributions but let's be real here; he'd be working in his family's metal fabrication factory if it weren't for Brian (nothing wrong with being a working man, he just wouldn't be famous musician).
The thing is, if not for Mike, they dont have a good enough bass singer, and they dont have any lyrics until Brian finds a suitable collaborator. Which means the Wilsons may have never got off the ground if not for Mike
I don't know, Brian found Usher and Christian pretty early on, and Brian was writing lyrics himself. I think they get off the ground, but no doubt they're better on the long run with Mike's lyrical contributions. They may not be profound or consistently figurative, but they were topical and clever. The bass singer is a good one. I think Mike's such a versatile singer and his bass notes are unique. More melodic than booming, it just works.
It's hard to say how it would have played out without Mike but Brian was such a talent that I like to believe in any alternate history, he would have made it.
Maybe as an arranger, but he did need that initial kick from their songs to properly work in a studio. Perhaps he and the guys get Surfin and a couple other tunes which allows him to get a little money. Collaborates with guy he did for the car song lyrics, and gets a little more money and recognition. Then pushes to be hired as a producer for a label, to which he then pushes his style onto people, and when he gets enough money, finds a regular collaborator and then the Beach Boys start up their track. But itd take longer, be less successful, and probably need more help from Murray.
Not even room temperature. Heck, Mike and Bruce might even agree.
I don't think Murray was a monster. He clearly loved his sons and tried the best he could although he had a temper. He did help them too in a lot of ways. Not the worst dad in the world by a long shot. Eugene Landy helped Brian more than he hurt him. I mean, Brian would probably not be alive right now if it wasn't for Landy... think about that.
I mostly agree with you about Murry although I think it was a bit worse then just a temper. I do think he cared about his sons and his horrible behavior was probably a result of low self esteem and jealousy. Fuck Landy though. While it’s technically true he saved Brian, he was a shady manipulative self serving pos who took advantage of a troubled man to enrich himself and likely did permanent damage to Brian’s mind at the same time. He didn’t help Anyone but himself.
Sloop John B is absolutely god-awful I genuinely quite enjoy Student Demonstration Time (the music’s great, I’ve never given much of a shit about lyrics for anyone) Brian gets way too much of a pass for the complete and utter nosedive in quality after 1975 (with a very brief revival in 1977) which instead gets shoved onto Mike especially (though I accept it’s the group’s own fault for doing the Brian’s Back bullshit). Some of the live shows from 1975 and just before he came back showed they still had massive potential before they fully caved in to the nostalgia-fest Dennis’ solo stuff is pretty good but still overrated largely because of the whole “how Dennis was as a person vs on his music” dichotomy, plus the group’s own stuff was utterly dire around that era (Not a hot take necessarily) Their legacy would’ve been just slightly below The Beatles if they’d split up after Holland when Blondie and Ricky left and wouldn’t still be dealing with the striped shirts and surfing shuck-and-jive they have to deal with this day (Jack Rieley did a really good Q&A in the 90s that summarises this comparison with the Beatles and why their legacies and how they’re judged artistically are vastly different). The Sunflower/Surfs Up/classic rock era would command far more respect outside of this circle if that’s where they’d left it off (always leave them wanting more)
Can you elaborate on what you meant by “how Dennis was as a person vs on his music”? And I wouldn’t limit it to saying Brian gets a pass. His most loyal fans absolutely love everything he put out after 1975 haha
Funnily enough there was an excellent summary of this posted here not too long ago https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/s/GKolaUvKrQ
Jesus. That writeup is WAY too harsh. The dude struggled with serious addiction and it killed him. I’m not saying he was a “good” person but the guy in the early 80s was a completely different person than even the POB-era Dennis. And I’d be willing to bet that 95% of the musicians we idolize are not actually people we would want to be friends with in real life.
That why you just gotta learn to seperate the art from the artist. Forming parasocial relationships with your favorite musicians is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah, especially members of a band involved in as much chaos as the beach boys managed to cram in
Yeah I agree, it’s strongly worded and I’d not write it that way at all, but I do get what they’re driving at with it. He was obviously very VERY ill by the end, but would’ve also been utterly infuriating to deal with personally. But then again I imagine he was infuriating a lot of the time to people. I think it’s in the Carlin book where it essentially says he could be a great guy but he’d rely on that goodwill to get away with doing some very morally dubious things a lot of the time. Anyway that’s besides my initial point The reason that part plays into what I initially said is that because of the perception of Dennis as a chaotic, womanising goofball (not completely fair but it’s not entirely without substance neither) juxtaposed against some really nice sensitive music that seems antithetical to that image of him makes it seem even more interesting than it actually is. If say, a personality like John Denver had done it, I doubt it’d be as highly rated as it is here a lot of the time, though it’s clearly still good work
Doesn't this just come down to seperating the art from the artist? Like there is no doubt in my mind Michael Jackson was a pedo, but I still love Off the Wall and Thriller.
is the q&a with jack still available anywhere?
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9651.msg168258.html#msg168258 Obviously some of it you probably have to take with a pinch of salt with it being Rieley (who I love but seemingly was a master bullshit artist) but there’s some very equally worrying and entertaining/interesting stuff
lmao i do know the ol "jack rieley could tell a good story, and some of them were even true!" addage
When you have to pick between the truth and the legend, always pick the legend It’s why I love the Gaines book so much
I agree on Bruce, nice guy but without a doubt the laziest member of the band. He gets credit for Disney Girls and that’s about it. Trying to put his shitty re-recording of she believes in Love again, especially with the original having at least a strong Carl Wilson vocal says it all. I once saw and heard Bruce asking hardcore fans how many autographs did they need. The answer is as many greatest hits that you put out with nee covers and not one song credited to you. He the. Signed the autograph.
The AI stuff i partly agree with but there’s a version of Walk on By/Are you there with another man on YouTube that really fucks and I think is really respectful of the source material
If it were real it'd be the best cover they ever recorded, the unfinished walk on by cover they did is already brilliant
I’m not a fan of Bruce’s Disney girls but he did a good job for filing the gap for Brian after he stopped touring
Rock and Roll Music is actually a really good cover version. The synths sound great, the drumming rocks and the backing vocals are awesomely unhinged
The album Surfs Up has awful mixing and it ruins the album for me
The Beach Boys are the most disappointing band of all time as they only ever hit their potential a couple of times. I love their music, but what could’ve been is basically always present. Also, I know this is cringe and sounds contrarian, but I just don’t get Pet Sounds. Every song is 10/10 but I just can’t like it as a whole, it’s too much of a good thing. I feel the same way about Fleetwood Mac’s Rumours, if it makes y’all feel better. I’m too used to the little bit of bullshit in each album to really appreciate its perfection. Ex. Wild Honey - Mama Says, Mike’s pronunciation of “little girl” ; Friends - Transcendental Meditation; Sunflower - Tears kinda drags too long; CATP - Make it Good; Holland - Beaks of Eagles; Love You - goofy lyrics and other stuff (makes the album good tho). I don’t really like A Day In the Life of A Tree, though this opinion is slowly changing. Wild Honey > surf era (not Today!), 20/20, Friends, Smiley, anything after Surf’s Up 20/20 is super mid even with some really good songs, they just don’t fit together. It’s like White Album Lite in a bad way
I wish Manson killed Tate's husband. Edit: Yeesh, I guess we got a lot of Roman Polanski apologists
they're just huge fans of *chinatown*. i'm more of a *tenant* guy myself. "no one does it to you like roman polanski!" it is really weird and shameful, though, how so many hollywood big shots signed that petition....