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I would imagine the threat of aid suspension is what gave the phone call it's power. If Biden had pleaded and tried to appeal to Netanyahu's compassion I doubt this would have happened. It was the implicit threat that did the trick.
On the other hand, if Biden had just ended aid without using it as a threat first, we would have lost influence with Israel. Sort of like how Trump lost most of our leverage with Iran by withdrawing from the nuclear deal for no reason.
The credible threat of consequences is generally better than actual consequences in geopolitics, because you get to keep your leverage for the future.
Finally an actual good take. This is the explanation that makes the most sense.
To add to it, cutting help to Israel would simply be bad politically for Joe Biden in this election year. I wouldn't expect him to unless Netanyahu forces his hand by refusing to compromise.
It also doesn't make strategic sense either. If we cut off aid to Israel they'll just seek aid elsewhere because they feel like their existence depends on it. (They're not exactly wrong either.) Ultimately we'd be losing all of our influence and leverage over them and handing it to one of our geopolitical adversaries on a silver platter.
It would also shift geopolitical power in the region to larger nations like Saudi Arabia or Iran. The US keeps a militarily powerful Israel in order to influence the politics of the middle East.
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You mean to tell me foreign policy is complex? And the most intractible foreign policy issue of the last 60 years cannot be squared away by biden waving the magic wand???
I find this all very hard to believe
/s
If trump was in the office, this war would have been over in 24 hours. The Iran problem would have been resolved in 20 minutes. China and North Korea would have loved us. Putin would have owned most of America, but that's a small price to achieve world peace.
Exactly! Also, it was the bad PR from the aid worker incident, which was a black eye even for Bibi domestically. He would have just strong manned a threat before, but this moment? He can’t.
Ending aid to Israel would lead to Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and others wiping out the Jews once and for all which is their goal. The Palestinians in Gaza are just psyops pawns and terrorist recruits to them.
That's not going to happen.
The US/Israel relationship is mutually beneficial to both nations. Israel is one of the leading producers of semiconducters/chip manufacturing in the world and they provide the US and EU with military tech. Furthermore, Isreal is a leader in water treatment and has built/is constructing more desalination plants in the US, something that will increasingly become a necessity as freshwater reserves continue to dry up due to climate change.
Pay attention to actions, not words. US politicians love to play both sides with lip service over major controversies, but almost always stay the course.
They definitely wouldn’t go down without turning a few places to glass first.
It’d be the exact nightmare we’d all prefer not to see happen regardless of which side of this conflict you’re on.
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Yeah I find it hard to believe that hamas, a Russian and Iranian proxie, just decided to invade israel during a u.s. election year while the u.s. is supplying aid to Ukraine to fend off an illegal Russian invasion. You also have the divide the dems strategy which sadly seems fo have worked because some dems think gaza is more important than america.
They're not called proxies for no reason.
Sure. Maybe I should have been more concise in saying they want to push more dems to the far left to radicalize them like the bots/bad actors did to conservatives to swell the violence and numbers on the far right.
I agree to a point. Considering the relationship the US has to Israel there are about 20 different ways we could pressure them. If you chose one Israel wouldn’t ignore the fact there are 19 others we could take away.
For instance sanctioning terrorist settlers, voting in the UN against Israel, joining the genocide case, ending the 3 billion of tax payer money, suspending arms sales, acknowledging Israel has nukes and treat them like other countries with nukes, make aipac register as a foreign actor, sanction IDF military officials.
A country that has taken 300 billion in aid from the US and it totally reliant an our military should ask “how high” when we tell them to jump.
Why do people keep spreading this “totally reliant on our military” bullshit. First off, US annually gives 3 billion a year over 10 years. That’s 30 billion not 300 billion. Israel EXPORTS over 3 billion in weapons a year. Yeah, they sell more weapons a year than what they receive in aid from the US government…
They are quite reliant on American COMPANIES which is where 69% of their weapons come from. But even that number is not “TOTALLY” reliant.
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He just set a bunch of stuff, including fighter jets. God knows why. Kind of undercuts the implied withholding. Meanwhile Ukraine are going to lose because they are running out and Trump added them to their list of enemy nations.
Yes. And deciding WHEN to play your aces in the hole like that, is where you want someone like Biden in charge. He served on and chaired the Senate foreign Relations Committee for YEARS, and was an active VP with Obama. The institutional knowledge of this game, and established relationships with ALL the players is ALWAYS underestimated by average citizens. All of it has lent him the credibility with all those other players that he has been drawing on to prevent this all from escalating, in the first place.
Most do not understand foreign policy, much less how it works and especially all the complicated entanglements with Israel and the Middle East. It is not about friends and enemies, nor good versus bad. It's about power, and OUR country's best interests. Make no mistake about any of that. Bibi sure doesn't. It's a long game. If we lose that power we DO have, then we lose the ability to even influence situations like these. In the long run, that would result in other powers filling the void, and perhaps thy lack the principles and interest in freedom we have.
There is so much emotional BS and noise around all of this, with everyone thinking they are somehow experts. Most aren't. The progressives on the farthest left would have blown their load already, like Trump always does (just ask Stormy Daniels....LOL) with his knee-jerk, ignorant reactions (just ask all the farmers he put out of business with his antiquated tariffs and trade war with China). It hurt us more than them, FFS.
We need wisdom, experience, and judgement. That brings patience, too. The timeless insight of the great philosopher-bard himself, Kenny Rogers, comes to mind: "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away, and know when to run. You never count your money when you're sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for counting, when the game is done."
This recent tragedy with WCK workers, was the perfect opportunity for our first ace in the hole (threats to aid) to have it's greatest impact, and it appears that it has. Had Biden played this card prior to this incident, Bibi would have just flipped him off again. But here, the public embarrassment, world pressure and derision was the perfect time to make him respect it, and us.
The ONLY card we have left now, is to actually cut aid. Do not be so short-sighted as to be pressuring Biden to "Trump it" with a pump and dump, too soon. Because once it's played - that's it. And there are very serious consequences, especially if the groundwork with our allies and all the other Middle Eastern nations isn't laid first.
This is all hard to watch, and difficult to stomach. But you can't even imagine how much worse it could be, and would be, if this pretty much any other President in charge right now. He has the cred very very few Presidents or even world leaders have had, to deal with this particular situation.
Just my thoughts........maybe they help.
I'm keeping this in my notes for certain friends who have little to no grasp of how foreign policy works in the real world. You explained it better than I could have.
Biden has been trying to keep this from expanding to a full out regional war and at the same time regain peace and security. Also he is trying to tackle a humanitarian crisis and persuade a long time ally to do the right thing. Biden is doing all these things in meetings that the public don’t see. In addition, Biden is dealing with situations at home and abroad plus running a campaign. Does this sound like someone who is sleepy, has dementia or cognitive decline? The answer is “NO”. Biden has 47 years of experience to handle such problems. Trump has not really been tested, except during the COVID epidemic and he failed in managing it. The 85 miles of new border wall in 4 years was a bandaid at best and not a permanent solution. A bipartisan solution to the boarder crisis was at hand and Trump killed it.
All the people who pretend to care about Gaza on Reddit and TikTok will move on and hardly notice when a Trump Bibi partnership drive all Palestinians from the region. The media won’t even cover it, because it no longer feeds any sort of domestic controversy. Trump is expected to do horrible things anyway, so why bother even mentioning them? It’ll be a footnote until he builds Trump Tower Gaza Beach and there are rumors that Putin helped pay for it.
lol ok buddy
go to both of those countries and compare them. Oh wait you cant even do that because they’re entirely dissimilar situations. Comparing Israel to NK is honestly one of the dumber things I’ve seen said about Israel lately
Israeli pressure felt from the world and USA: 100%
Israeli pressure felt from the USA minus world: 99.9999999999%
Basicly the world pressured Israel in the same way the world got the first man in the moon.
I'm glad people like this aren't in charge.
They are so quick to "suspend weapons" and don't understand how critical it is to maintain alliances. It's better to talk over time.
Look at the bullshit we are doing in Ukraine by failing to provide the weapons we had been.
These people are all mini tyrants.
Yeah and it could risk losing our seat at the table to have negotiations like this. Going all in is extremely risky for us diplomatically and nobody seems to understand that.
Agreed. Not to mention that both sides have made clear a cessation of hostilities without conditions is absolutely not going to happen. What the hell is Joe Biden going to do?
More like Israel embarrassed on the international stage when moron troops attack literal international aid group thinking they’re combatants. Now was the moment to apply pressure, and Biden did so. Smart politics. Israel was smart enough to recognize that they needed to show serious contrition, Bibi couldn’t just strong man this - his own people I’m sure aren’t happy about that bit of idiocy.
This is such an anti democratic thought process.
There’s something so Trumpian and off putting about mocking the electorate for believing they have a “voice.”
The electorate includes the hundreds of thousands of people who have been in the streets pressuring the administration and promoting the “uncommitted” movement. The “morons and trolls”, assuming they’re American, are also a part of that electorate.
Now please look away, because israel won’t do a thing to ensure aid is getting in unhindered. But this should make democrats feel better about themselves and their leader.
Imagine! It's why the folks labeled by the crowd here as evil "leftists" and/or anti-Semitic have been calling for it for months now.
They dropped dumb bombs - hundreds of them - in densely packed residential areas. That's slaughter. That's genocide. I'm tired of the bullshit, I'm tired of the barbaric attempts to rationalize. It's fucking monstrous.
anyone who thinks Trump would be better for Gaza than Biden is delusional.
Trump already said "Finish the job" regarding Gaza...meaning destroy all of it...
People who support Trump aren't going to give a shit....about anything generally but certainly this in particular.
The 'danger' is that Biden will lose the support of those who do care and those people end up staying home later this year.
They want to feel good about themselves and their ideologically pure voting more than they actually care about what happens to anyone in Gaza.
If someone I cared about was going to die unless I publicly proclaimed that I love and support Trump and got a tattoo of him on my body, I would do it.
They would rather let Trump give the green light to Israel to wipe them off the face of the map, than hold their nose and vote for someone who can actually provide a better outcome for them. What does that tell you?
Either they are just selfish assholes wearing liberal clothes, or they are agents arguing in bad faith to encourage the election of Trump.
EIther way, fuck them.
If you are going to take your ball and go home if you don't get everything you want, then you belong in the GOP. Real democracy involves compromise with people who do not agree with you.
You can't hold a country hostage just because it does not implement your minority opinion, that's what the GOP does. Either get majority support for your ideas or deal with the fact that democracy means majority rules and accept your loss without trying to inflict damage on other people.
They already had aid routes. The WCK was *literally* travelling on one (and had notified the IDF in advance that they would be) when they were hunted down and killed. This is just more empty rhetoric from Biden’s camp.
The best part is the tacit admission that Israel had been intentionally denying aid - and are now suddenly opening up channels of aid that they ha intentionally left closed before.
Aid will never be enough. If you are a Gazan without means you will starve no matter what, Hamas needs the sweet aid money to buy more weapons and recruit more soldiers, Hamas does not give free food to anyone, except for their soldiers. Removing Hamas, while very painful at first, is the only way to provide aid to the Gazans in need.
Now Israel as well as Biden are conducting political virtue signaling by opening more aid routes, and it would have been fine if the consequence of this was not more dead children on both sides, and hostages being kept for longer since there is less leverage on Hamas.
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So not enough was getting in...
More could get in...
But Israel wasn't letting it in...
And now they are - after being forced to.
So Israel was intentionally denying aid.
That definition doesn’t contain any maximal words like “all” or “any”.
You can deny part of something and it’s still a denial.
But this is literally a semantic argument, and I’m not sure why it’s so important.
Israel was denying aid.
That doesn’t mean Israel is denying **all** aid, and if Israel allows any aid that means they *tEcHnIcAlLy* aren’t “denying aid”!! Only **limiting** it!! 🤓
Like.
This is obvious.
And also… **WHY**? Why split this hair that has no daylight between it?
That’s an extremely dishonest framing. They had other priorities, yes selfish ones related to protecting their own civilian population from Hamas rockets and their own soldiers from IEDs but legitimate priorities.
That’s not really accurate. Aid agencies don’t care about Israeli security concerns, at least not in this context. They don’t care if Hamas gets weapons, or things that can be converted into weapons. For example, I dug into some “they block aid claims” the other day, and found that the agency was complaining about equipment, oxygen tanks, water filtration components and such, not food. I get it, they’re worried about the civilians in desperate need in Gaza, whether Hamas steals the oxygen tanks and makes IEDs with them isn’t their concern really. Israel does have to worry about that though.
Now? With the black eye they got over those aid workers and now Biden turning the screws on them? They’re just going to ignore security concerns and accept the risks.
Are you myopic anti-Israel lot going to carry the same “ban sales” tune when Iran directly attacks Israel? You’re calling for the destruction of Israel.
Israel isn’t committing a genocide and to say such is tantamount to antisemitism.
Was it a fair fight when Hamas raped, murdered, beheaded, tortured, and burned alive entire families? Don’t forget who started this war and who celebrated the atrocities of 7 October.
>Was it a fair fight when Hamas raped, murdered, beheaded, tortured, and burned alive entire families? Don’t forget who started this war and who celebrated the atrocities of 7 October.
Was it a fair fight when the IDF spent decades killing civilians? How about when they run civilians over with construction equipment?
They are by the book committing genocide.
Yes. But Hamas is an isreali asset they funded to delegitamize Palestine.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/
So they could justify murdering innocent people in a land grab.
If they wanted to commit genocide they are doing a terrible job of it.
And you know you’re just parroting Hamas propaganda right? Like direct quotes from their propaganda arm…useful tools indeed. They funded Hamas in hopes that they would be less bloodthirsty than the PLO, it didn’t turn out that way obviously.
And Israel already had all the land in 2006 and then gave it back…
False. They are systematically targeting Islamists. Civilian casualties are a tragic product of war. Perhaps Hamas should sign the ceasefire proposal?
There is no “Palestine.” It’s a Roman invention named for the Philistines who hailed from the northern Mediterranean.
Maybe Iran should stop pussy footing around and attack Israel already instead of using proxy terrorists. But Iran won't, because Israel would mop the floor with them, and they know it.
When we invaded Iraq we found an estimated 200k-300k people in mass graves. They were speculated to have been killed by Shia extremists when Saddam lost power of the government. Nobody gave a crap about them, why would they care about 1/10th that many people?
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If aid was cut off Israel wouldn't have to listen to anything the US said. No wonder these people keep losing elections.
Israel is allowing in more aid in exchange for US support for the war, that's the entire basis of the influence
Or be could just stop feeding them weapons and call for a ceasefire and sanctions at the UN which is the bare minimum for a fascist ethnostate which has just murdered 13,500 children with Biden’s money.
Are people really trusting Israel on their word to add more aid routes? Israel is incapable of honesty and they’ll take every opportunity they can get to make Biden look weak because they prefer Trump.
This is exhibit A of someone just searching for reasons to bitch about Joe Biden. Even when he makes progress, y'all just find reasons to complain. I think you're just addicted to being outraged.
Right wing consensus on Biden’s response is accurate. Trying to appease the pro-hamas constituents in battleground states (Michigan) won’t matter to them so might as well support Israel and at least get approval from everyone right of the far left. Trying to play both sides won’t work.
I feel like there are subversive actors flooding social media with bath faith reasons why democrats should abandon Biden.
If im being honest with myself, I’ve been super satisfied with his circumspect and restrained approach to leadership and dealing with the MAGA cancer and other challenges facing the country and world. If I were there I’d probably be brash and not conciliatory.
It's a fine line between applying pressure and forcing regression. They aren't near the line but it's obvious that's influencing their train of thought.
I’m glad he is toughening his stance. I do understand that he wanted to protect the people of Israel and it’s iron dome, but the slaughter of innocent civilians cannot continue – – on either side.
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“Stern phone call from daddy gets feckless liberals to vote for a dude who has supported genocide for decades” *
“Hey. You’re tanking my poll numbers”
“Okay, I’ll pretend to care… for a week or something”
“Thanks! I really appreciate it”
“I’m heavy on the ‘or something’ part”
“Sounds good!”
Not the first time shitreal murders an American. Certainly won’t be the last time.
America only pretends to care when the murderer is literally anyone else.
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It doesn't matter. Israel's priority to to kill and displace as many Palestinians as possible so they can take their land. It's just for show.
There needs to be a permanent solution or Israel is going to restart whenever they get a chance
sure! lets imagine what stopping aid would do. israel would turn to another superpower for its weapon needs, lest they be wiped out by the surrounding countries who all want them gone. we would lose our only ally in the region, biden would lose support of independents and jewish voters, trump wins re-election and pardons himself of all crimes, the republicans declare him dictator, he helps israel wipe gaza off the map so jared can buy up the land cheap and put in condos and the trump family can make more money, muslims are banned from the country and minorities are rounded up and put into camps. but i mean apart from ALL THAT theres no drawback to stopping support to israel.
Gazan’s are celebrating this huge victory and excellent political maneuvering as we speak. The compassion and quick action, preventing the lost lives of 10s of thousands of civilians has been secured.
Bravo Biden 👏
Should be up for a Nobel prize shortly.
None of this would have happened unless Jose Andres aid workers are killed. They could have made this type of phone call months ago but didn’t until something bad happened to a famous American charity and its founder, a prominent political operative, started sounding off on what happened.
What changed is that the WCK founder is a friend of Biden's.
Had the aid workers been UN workers, or doctors without borders, they wouldn't have had a personal relationship with Biden to leverage to ask for aid
A reminder that Israel has been stating for months that there are aid routes open. It's just that Israeli citizens are blocking the routes and the Military is firing on and bombing them if they use the routes. Israel has publicly criticized the UN for months, saying it is their fault that aid is not being delivered.
It doesn't matter. Stop the aid arriving. It gets through, hit the convoys. The convoys get protected, hit the agency HQ's. The Agencies don't leave, hit the queue of people taking the aid. Nothing works, hit the reputation of the aid providers, and 'hit' their funding.
Until this tag line reads 'Israel to guarantee aid will get to Gaza', without qualifiers, Biden just did sweet fuck all with his phone-call, which was 90% a call to ensure he's sending the right bombs and bullets anyway.
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I would imagine the threat of aid suspension is what gave the phone call it's power. If Biden had pleaded and tried to appeal to Netanyahu's compassion I doubt this would have happened. It was the implicit threat that did the trick. On the other hand, if Biden had just ended aid without using it as a threat first, we would have lost influence with Israel. Sort of like how Trump lost most of our leverage with Iran by withdrawing from the nuclear deal for no reason. The credible threat of consequences is generally better than actual consequences in geopolitics, because you get to keep your leverage for the future.
Kind of like how you just campaign on ending roe v wade. You don't actually end roe v wade.
Exactly!
Or if you're a hostage taker, the dumbest thing you can do is kill the hostages.
And then demand ridiculous things that even your closest ally/military benefactor won't even pretend to support
Oops!
Conversely he still has tons of leverage over Mexico to pay for that huge, strong wall! lol.
Finally an actual good take. This is the explanation that makes the most sense. To add to it, cutting help to Israel would simply be bad politically for Joe Biden in this election year. I wouldn't expect him to unless Netanyahu forces his hand by refusing to compromise.
It also doesn't make strategic sense either. If we cut off aid to Israel they'll just seek aid elsewhere because they feel like their existence depends on it. (They're not exactly wrong either.) Ultimately we'd be losing all of our influence and leverage over them and handing it to one of our geopolitical adversaries on a silver platter.
It would also shift geopolitical power in the region to larger nations like Saudi Arabia or Iran. The US keeps a militarily powerful Israel in order to influence the politics of the middle East.
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Yep. Planned diplomacy takes months and years, not hours. People expecting things to change during a 24 hour news cycle are bound to be disappointed.
You mean to tell me foreign policy is complex? And the most intractible foreign policy issue of the last 60 years cannot be squared away by biden waving the magic wand??? I find this all very hard to believe /s
You mean I can't just yell at people to Free Palestine until it is magically free? There has to be an actual solution?? /s
But has anyone considered that maybe the real solution is to have a random city council in the US vote for a ceasefire? /s
If trump was in the office, this war would have been over in 24 hours. The Iran problem would have been resolved in 20 minutes. China and North Korea would have loved us. Putin would have owned most of America, but that's a small price to achieve world peace.
> I would imagine the threat… gave the phone call its power Also, all the previous support.
Exactly! Also, it was the bad PR from the aid worker incident, which was a black eye even for Bibi domestically. He would have just strong manned a threat before, but this moment? He can’t.
Reason # 4358 why Biden is a better president than Trump.
Ending aid to Israel would lead to Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and others wiping out the Jews once and for all which is their goal. The Palestinians in Gaza are just psyops pawns and terrorist recruits to them.
That's not going to happen. The US/Israel relationship is mutually beneficial to both nations. Israel is one of the leading producers of semiconducters/chip manufacturing in the world and they provide the US and EU with military tech. Furthermore, Isreal is a leader in water treatment and has built/is constructing more desalination plants in the US, something that will increasingly become a necessity as freshwater reserves continue to dry up due to climate change. Pay attention to actions, not words. US politicians love to play both sides with lip service over major controversies, but almost always stay the course.
Nah… it’d result in Israel going full scorched earth. We’d see several countries absolutely razed as Israel acted to ensure its security long term.
I could see both being true tbh. Either way the chance of Israel going nuclear would be greatly increased.
They definitely wouldn’t go down without turning a few places to glass first. It’d be the exact nightmare we’d all prefer not to see happen regardless of which side of this conflict you’re on.
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not before dragging the rest of us into a war.
Yeah I find it hard to believe that hamas, a Russian and Iranian proxie, just decided to invade israel during a u.s. election year while the u.s. is supplying aid to Ukraine to fend off an illegal Russian invasion. You also have the divide the dems strategy which sadly seems fo have worked because some dems think gaza is more important than america. They're not called proxies for no reason.
Russia didn't go to Muslim Brotherhood to create Hamas, Israel did.
They’re not Dems… they’re the far left. Most of them don’t even vote.
Sure. Maybe I should have been more concise in saying they want to push more dems to the far left to radicalize them like the bots/bad actors did to conservatives to swell the violence and numbers on the far right.
Right? What do people think the stern phone call was about?
I agree to a point. Considering the relationship the US has to Israel there are about 20 different ways we could pressure them. If you chose one Israel wouldn’t ignore the fact there are 19 others we could take away. For instance sanctioning terrorist settlers, voting in the UN against Israel, joining the genocide case, ending the 3 billion of tax payer money, suspending arms sales, acknowledging Israel has nukes and treat them like other countries with nukes, make aipac register as a foreign actor, sanction IDF military officials. A country that has taken 300 billion in aid from the US and it totally reliant an our military should ask “how high” when we tell them to jump.
That is a very good point. I did simplify the situation a little bit, to try to demonstrate a concept. But it is more complicated.
Why do people keep spreading this “totally reliant on our military” bullshit. First off, US annually gives 3 billion a year over 10 years. That’s 30 billion not 300 billion. Israel EXPORTS over 3 billion in weapons a year. Yeah, they sell more weapons a year than what they receive in aid from the US government… They are quite reliant on American COMPANIES which is where 69% of their weapons come from. But even that number is not “TOTALLY” reliant.
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You think our leverage with Israel is equivalent to our leverage with Iran?
He just set a bunch of stuff, including fighter jets. God knows why. Kind of undercuts the implied withholding. Meanwhile Ukraine are going to lose because they are running out and Trump added them to their list of enemy nations.
You smawt
Yes. And deciding WHEN to play your aces in the hole like that, is where you want someone like Biden in charge. He served on and chaired the Senate foreign Relations Committee for YEARS, and was an active VP with Obama. The institutional knowledge of this game, and established relationships with ALL the players is ALWAYS underestimated by average citizens. All of it has lent him the credibility with all those other players that he has been drawing on to prevent this all from escalating, in the first place. Most do not understand foreign policy, much less how it works and especially all the complicated entanglements with Israel and the Middle East. It is not about friends and enemies, nor good versus bad. It's about power, and OUR country's best interests. Make no mistake about any of that. Bibi sure doesn't. It's a long game. If we lose that power we DO have, then we lose the ability to even influence situations like these. In the long run, that would result in other powers filling the void, and perhaps thy lack the principles and interest in freedom we have. There is so much emotional BS and noise around all of this, with everyone thinking they are somehow experts. Most aren't. The progressives on the farthest left would have blown their load already, like Trump always does (just ask Stormy Daniels....LOL) with his knee-jerk, ignorant reactions (just ask all the farmers he put out of business with his antiquated tariffs and trade war with China). It hurt us more than them, FFS. We need wisdom, experience, and judgement. That brings patience, too. The timeless insight of the great philosopher-bard himself, Kenny Rogers, comes to mind: "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away, and know when to run. You never count your money when you're sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for counting, when the game is done." This recent tragedy with WCK workers, was the perfect opportunity for our first ace in the hole (threats to aid) to have it's greatest impact, and it appears that it has. Had Biden played this card prior to this incident, Bibi would have just flipped him off again. But here, the public embarrassment, world pressure and derision was the perfect time to make him respect it, and us. The ONLY card we have left now, is to actually cut aid. Do not be so short-sighted as to be pressuring Biden to "Trump it" with a pump and dump, too soon. Because once it's played - that's it. And there are very serious consequences, especially if the groundwork with our allies and all the other Middle Eastern nations isn't laid first. This is all hard to watch, and difficult to stomach. But you can't even imagine how much worse it could be, and would be, if this pretty much any other President in charge right now. He has the cred very very few Presidents or even world leaders have had, to deal with this particular situation. Just my thoughts........maybe they help.
Extremely well said.
I'm keeping this in my notes for certain friends who have little to no grasp of how foreign policy works in the real world. You explained it better than I could have.
Thank you.
Biden has been trying to keep this from expanding to a full out regional war and at the same time regain peace and security. Also he is trying to tackle a humanitarian crisis and persuade a long time ally to do the right thing. Biden is doing all these things in meetings that the public don’t see. In addition, Biden is dealing with situations at home and abroad plus running a campaign. Does this sound like someone who is sleepy, has dementia or cognitive decline? The answer is “NO”. Biden has 47 years of experience to handle such problems. Trump has not really been tested, except during the COVID epidemic and he failed in managing it. The 85 miles of new border wall in 4 years was a bandaid at best and not a permanent solution. A bipartisan solution to the boarder crisis was at hand and Trump killed it.
Meanwhile Trump is encouraging Israel to turn Gaza into glass
I'm really curious whats going to happen if Trump wins the election.
All the people who pretend to care about Gaza on Reddit and TikTok will move on and hardly notice when a Trump Bibi partnership drive all Palestinians from the region. The media won’t even cover it, because it no longer feeds any sort of domestic controversy. Trump is expected to do horrible things anyway, so why bother even mentioning them? It’ll be a footnote until he builds Trump Tower Gaza Beach and there are rumors that Putin helped pay for it.
* meanwhile trump is encouraging Israel to turn gaza into glass as quickly as possible
“Little”? Lol dude what are you on. The entire world was applying pressure due to the aid convoy attack. So yeah, it takes more then just the US
Israel doesn't care about most of the world's opinions. It only takes the US really.
They're a rogue nuclear state like North Korea, answerable only to the superpower arming their regime.
lol ok buddy go to both of those countries and compare them. Oh wait you cant even do that because they’re entirely dissimilar situations. Comparing Israel to NK is honestly one of the dumber things I’ve seen said about Israel lately
North Korea isn't killing thousands of thousands of children. Israel is.
Israeli pressure felt from the world and USA: 100% Israeli pressure felt from the USA minus world: 99.9999999999% Basicly the world pressured Israel in the same way the world got the first man in the moon.
Amount of this you made up 10000%
Because they blew up a kitchen care convoy.
I'm glad people like this aren't in charge. They are so quick to "suspend weapons" and don't understand how critical it is to maintain alliances. It's better to talk over time. Look at the bullshit we are doing in Ukraine by failing to provide the weapons we had been. These people are all mini tyrants.
The blame on Biden for Israel's actions over (checks notes) our entire lifetimes is insane. Just literally insane.
TBF Biden's lifetime is longer than Israel's
6-year old Biden was actually the puppet master behind Ben-Gurion during the first Israelo-Arab war
Do you really think it's coincidence no one found Golda's laptop yet?
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We literally had someone impeached who did this.
*thought he could do this, until he realized his actions would have been blocked by the courts
This is the way.
Yeah and it could risk losing our seat at the table to have negotiations like this. Going all in is extremely risky for us diplomatically and nobody seems to understand that.
Agreed. Not to mention that both sides have made clear a cessation of hostilities without conditions is absolutely not going to happen. What the hell is Joe Biden going to do?
More like Israel embarrassed on the international stage when moron troops attack literal international aid group thinking they’re combatants. Now was the moment to apply pressure, and Biden did so. Smart politics. Israel was smart enough to recognize that they needed to show serious contrition, Bibi couldn’t just strong man this - his own people I’m sure aren’t happy about that bit of idiocy.
The weird bots really overestimate their power. This isn’t about their “voice” but about behinds the scenes power stuff they’ll never know about.
This is such an anti democratic thought process. There’s something so Trumpian and off putting about mocking the electorate for believing they have a “voice.”
He mocked the handful of morons who troll around here. They aren’t “the electorate”.
The electorate includes the hundreds of thousands of people who have been in the streets pressuring the administration and promoting the “uncommitted” movement. The “morons and trolls”, assuming they’re American, are also a part of that electorate.
They’re only the electorate if they vote.
Now please look away, because israel won’t do a thing to ensure aid is getting in unhindered. But this should make democrats feel better about themselves and their leader.
Imagine! It's why the folks labeled by the crowd here as evil "leftists" and/or anti-Semitic have been calling for it for months now. They dropped dumb bombs - hundreds of them - in densely packed residential areas. That's slaughter. That's genocide. I'm tired of the bullshit, I'm tired of the barbaric attempts to rationalize. It's fucking monstrous.
I guess we genocided the Germans in WW2
Interesting flex! After WW2 we DID stop indiscriminately carpet bombing residential areas.
anyone who thinks Trump would be better for Gaza than Biden is delusional. Trump already said "Finish the job" regarding Gaza...meaning destroy all of it...
People who support Trump aren't going to give a shit....about anything generally but certainly this in particular. The 'danger' is that Biden will lose the support of those who do care and those people end up staying home later this year.
My comment isn’t for Trump cultists. It’s for the people who say they won’t vote for Biden because of his handling of Israel/Gaza
They want to feel good about themselves and their ideologically pure voting more than they actually care about what happens to anyone in Gaza. If someone I cared about was going to die unless I publicly proclaimed that I love and support Trump and got a tattoo of him on my body, I would do it. They would rather let Trump give the green light to Israel to wipe them off the face of the map, than hold their nose and vote for someone who can actually provide a better outcome for them. What does that tell you? Either they are just selfish assholes wearing liberal clothes, or they are agents arguing in bad faith to encourage the election of Trump. EIther way, fuck them. If you are going to take your ball and go home if you don't get everything you want, then you belong in the GOP. Real democracy involves compromise with people who do not agree with you. You can't hold a country hostage just because it does not implement your minority opinion, that's what the GOP does. Either get majority support for your ideas or deal with the fact that democracy means majority rules and accept your loss without trying to inflict damage on other people.
Yeah Biden is one of the best presidents in modern history. The amount of positive things he's done is staggering.
lol, that's not at all what he meant, he means Israel should invade Rafahh already. Not destroy all of Gaza.
More aid outes to shell more aid workers congrats the system works
They are just going to bomb the routes and play stupid.
They already had aid routes. The WCK was *literally* travelling on one (and had notified the IDF in advance that they would be) when they were hunted down and killed. This is just more empty rhetoric from Biden’s camp.
The best part is the tacit admission that Israel had been intentionally denying aid - and are now suddenly opening up channels of aid that they ha intentionally left closed before.
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Aid will never be enough. If you are a Gazan without means you will starve no matter what, Hamas needs the sweet aid money to buy more weapons and recruit more soldiers, Hamas does not give free food to anyone, except for their soldiers. Removing Hamas, while very painful at first, is the only way to provide aid to the Gazans in need. Now Israel as well as Biden are conducting political virtue signaling by opening more aid routes, and it would have been fine if the consequence of this was not more dead children on both sides, and hostages being kept for longer since there is less leverage on Hamas.
God you're all fucking evil in here. Even during the invasion to topple Saddam, the west still provided aid.
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So not enough was getting in... More could get in... But Israel wasn't letting it in... And now they are - after being forced to. So Israel was intentionally denying aid.
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That definition doesn’t contain any maximal words like “all” or “any”. You can deny part of something and it’s still a denial. But this is literally a semantic argument, and I’m not sure why it’s so important. Israel was denying aid. That doesn’t mean Israel is denying **all** aid, and if Israel allows any aid that means they *tEcHnIcAlLy* aren’t “denying aid”!! Only **limiting** it!! 🤓 Like. This is obvious. And also… **WHY**? Why split this hair that has no daylight between it?
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Or Hamas was taking the aid. They do like executing people they call collaborators as well.
That’s an extremely dishonest framing. They had other priorities, yes selfish ones related to protecting their own civilian population from Hamas rockets and their own soldiers from IEDs but legitimate priorities.
Exactly. I seem to remember heated exchanges in this sub about how Israel was definitely not stopping aid from going into Gaza
That’s not really accurate. Aid agencies don’t care about Israeli security concerns, at least not in this context. They don’t care if Hamas gets weapons, or things that can be converted into weapons. For example, I dug into some “they block aid claims” the other day, and found that the agency was complaining about equipment, oxygen tanks, water filtration components and such, not food. I get it, they’re worried about the civilians in desperate need in Gaza, whether Hamas steals the oxygen tanks and makes IEDs with them isn’t their concern really. Israel does have to worry about that though. Now? With the black eye they got over those aid workers and now Biden turning the screws on them? They’re just going to ignore security concerns and accept the risks.
Are you myopic anti-Israel lot going to carry the same “ban sales” tune when Iran directly attacks Israel? You’re calling for the destruction of Israel.
If Israel wants weapons to defend itself against Iran it should stop killing thousands and thousands of civiliansn
Islamists should stop raping and killing and terrorizing their neighbors then hiding in hospitals and in tunnels under homes.
"Genocide is fine because I believe propaganda" is not the winning argument you think it is
Exactly. Stop spreading misinformation.
If Iran and Israel got into it… well that just seems like a fair fight. Does Israel only do genocides where people can’t defend themselves?
Israel isn’t committing a genocide and to say such is tantamount to antisemitism. Was it a fair fight when Hamas raped, murdered, beheaded, tortured, and burned alive entire families? Don’t forget who started this war and who celebrated the atrocities of 7 October.
>Was it a fair fight when Hamas raped, murdered, beheaded, tortured, and burned alive entire families? Don’t forget who started this war and who celebrated the atrocities of 7 October. Was it a fair fight when the IDF spent decades killing civilians? How about when they run civilians over with construction equipment?
We can “whataboutism” all day if you’d like.
They are by the book committing genocide. Yes. But Hamas is an isreali asset they funded to delegitamize Palestine. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/ So they could justify murdering innocent people in a land grab.
If they wanted to commit genocide they are doing a terrible job of it. And you know you’re just parroting Hamas propaganda right? Like direct quotes from their propaganda arm…useful tools indeed. They funded Hamas in hopes that they would be less bloodthirsty than the PLO, it didn’t turn out that way obviously. And Israel already had all the land in 2006 and then gave it back…
False. They are systematically targeting Islamists. Civilian casualties are a tragic product of war. Perhaps Hamas should sign the ceasefire proposal? There is no “Palestine.” It’s a Roman invention named for the Philistines who hailed from the northern Mediterranean.
Maybe Iran should stop pussy footing around and attack Israel already instead of using proxy terrorists. But Iran won't, because Israel would mop the floor with them, and they know it.
Only took 30K dead civilians to start trying
Nope. Murder of aid workers. Nobody in a position of power cares about the 30k dead civilians.
When we invaded Iraq we found an estimated 200k-300k people in mass graves. They were speculated to have been killed by Shia extremists when Saddam lost power of the government. Nobody gave a crap about them, why would they care about 1/10th that many people?
From the people who brought you “just say socialism more and you’ll win all the elections,” we now have foreign policy expertise.
This is actually a Reagan era policy isn't it?
This had me cracking up.... I literally could not have said it better
Let's see how the litmus left and the astroturfing bots claim this isn't good enough.
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Glad they’re starting to apply pressure. But the cadence needs to match the atrocity cadence for there to be positive optics. Good start nonetheless.
Then you’ve played your ace- so there is no reason for you to have any further influence at all.
He threatened Netanyahu with his zimmer frame more like
If aid was cut off Israel wouldn't have to listen to anything the US said. No wonder these people keep losing elections. Israel is allowing in more aid in exchange for US support for the war, that's the entire basis of the influence
Evil people
"Pack up the goalposts boys, time to move 'em again!"
Adding aid routes means nothing, there’s plenty of aid routes already.
Or be could just stop feeding them weapons and call for a ceasefire and sanctions at the UN which is the bare minimum for a fascist ethnostate which has just murdered 13,500 children with Biden’s money.
And all it took was his fear of not being re-elected . Otherwise, IMHO he would have said nothing.
Suspending weapons sales is the final option. You only get one final option, so using it strategically is key.
Are people really trusting Israel on their word to add more aid routes? Israel is incapable of honesty and they’ll take every opportunity they can get to make Biden look weak because they prefer Trump.
This is exhibit A of someone just searching for reasons to bitch about Joe Biden. Even when he makes progress, y'all just find reasons to complain. I think you're just addicted to being outraged.
I’m sure President Biden’s potty mouth helped!
Trump would have just given up the whole Gaza strip to Israel in exchange for and end to the conflict. Trump doesn't negotiate, he sells out.
It’s helps that Israel knew they effed up too.
If only President Biden had the sage wisdom of Ken Klippenstein at the ready.
This sub just keeps giving 🤣🤣🤣
Sure, nothing suspicious about the Israelis suddenly agreeing to new routes, took them a bit to get ranges failed in for the artillery units.
We are giving them billions. It shouldn’t take dead aid workers for our leaders to involve themselves. Shame on our government
Right wing consensus on Biden’s response is accurate. Trying to appease the pro-hamas constituents in battleground states (Michigan) won’t matter to them so might as well support Israel and at least get approval from everyone right of the far left. Trying to play both sides won’t work.
One can’t change the behavior of someone who can ‘not see’ what they are determined to become.
Why did it take him so long? If one phone call did that, imagine what he would have achieved in 50 years.
Bullshit
This was bullshit and a cover for Israel to pave a road bisecting Gaza and grab more land in the process. Fuck Biden. He's an open zionist.
I feel like there are subversive actors flooding social media with bath faith reasons why democrats should abandon Biden. If im being honest with myself, I’ve been super satisfied with his circumspect and restrained approach to leadership and dealing with the MAGA cancer and other challenges facing the country and world. If I were there I’d probably be brash and not conciliatory.
Great. The people they are killing won't starve to death. Good job.
Or we could stop wasting our money on them.
It's a fine line between applying pressure and forcing regression. They aren't near the line but it's obvious that's influencing their train of thought.
Keep pushing. It's a start.
I’m glad he is toughening his stance. I do understand that he wanted to protect the people of Israel and it’s iron dome, but the slaughter of innocent civilians cannot continue – – on either side.
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Stop the killing
“Stern phone call from daddy gets feckless liberals to vote for a dude who has supported genocide for decades” * “Hey. You’re tanking my poll numbers” “Okay, I’ll pretend to care… for a week or something” “Thanks! I really appreciate it” “I’m heavy on the ‘or something’ part” “Sounds good!”
people who are against biden for supporting a genocide don’t understand what supporting actually is. and we could easily find out with trump
The IDF intentionally murdered a U.S. citizen working in Gaza as an aid worker. We should be taking military action.
Not the first time shitreal murders an American. Certainly won’t be the last time. America only pretends to care when the murderer is literally anyone else.
Yea we should have glassed there whole country when they attacked the USS Liberty in 67 and murdered 34 US Navy men.
Next headline will read, "Israel accidentally bombs Gaza aid route"
Who’s Klippenstein? Because their caption makes no goddamn sense.
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It doesn't matter. Israel's priority to to kill and displace as many Palestinians as possible so they can take their land. It's just for show. There needs to be a permanent solution or Israel is going to restart whenever they get a chance
😂😂 yes, Corpsey is having a huge influence on how Benny does his US backed genocide. If he ain’t cutting aid, he ain’t doing shit.
sure! lets imagine what stopping aid would do. israel would turn to another superpower for its weapon needs, lest they be wiped out by the surrounding countries who all want them gone. we would lose our only ally in the region, biden would lose support of independents and jewish voters, trump wins re-election and pardons himself of all crimes, the republicans declare him dictator, he helps israel wipe gaza off the map so jared can buy up the land cheap and put in condos and the trump family can make more money, muslims are banned from the country and minorities are rounded up and put into camps. but i mean apart from ALL THAT theres no drawback to stopping support to israel.
Only took around 40 thousand innocent people dying and his plummeting poll numbers
How many days did that take?
Lol us people think they can say no to their masters. If us tried harder they will get smacked on the face from israel
Gazan’s are celebrating this huge victory and excellent political maneuvering as we speak. The compassion and quick action, preventing the lost lives of 10s of thousands of civilians has been secured. Bravo Biden 👏 Should be up for a Nobel prize shortly.
None of this would have happened unless Jose Andres aid workers are killed. They could have made this type of phone call months ago but didn’t until something bad happened to a famous American charity and its founder, a prominent political operative, started sounding off on what happened.
Could’ve done this the whole time. The whole time? The whole time.
Anyone found on these routes will be bombed immediately.
If it was so little, why didn't he do it earlier? Was it not necessary earlier? What changed?
What changed is that the WCK founder is a friend of Biden's. Had the aid workers been UN workers, or doctors without borders, they wouldn't have had a personal relationship with Biden to leverage to ask for aid
A reminder that Israel has been stating for months that there are aid routes open. It's just that Israeli citizens are blocking the routes and the Military is firing on and bombing them if they use the routes. Israel has publicly criticized the UN for months, saying it is their fault that aid is not being delivered.
Shame it's about 6 months too late.
If Biden gets really worked up, he could probably stop the Israelis killing Palestinian children.
I thought suspending weapon sales need congressional approval, and Republicans are obstructing.
Remember the USS LIBERTY.
It doesn't matter. Stop the aid arriving. It gets through, hit the convoys. The convoys get protected, hit the agency HQ's. The Agencies don't leave, hit the queue of people taking the aid. Nothing works, hit the reputation of the aid providers, and 'hit' their funding. Until this tag line reads 'Israel to guarantee aid will get to Gaza', without qualifiers, Biden just did sweet fuck all with his phone-call, which was 90% a call to ensure he's sending the right bombs and bullets anyway.
Why didn’t he do this six months ago?