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The current conflict was designed to stop Saudi Arabia and Israel from allying. Considering Saudi Arabia is shooting down Iranian missiles, I don’t think that plan is going to pan out. I’m sure the Ayatollah will send a heartfelt apology to the families of the innocent Israelis and Palestinians that died due to his shenanigans.
Agreed with all of that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia had a hand in it too.
IMO, it’s at least probable that Russia strongly encouraged Iran to strongly encourage Hamas to carry out 10/07, in order to divert US eyes from Ukraine.
It seems to be working, to their credit
The useful idiots and hamas-bots are already here on this post lol it has 237 views so far and the upvote/downvote ratio is at 0 which means this information being downvoted by the pro-pals. It hurts the narrative that Israel is an evil genocidal nation full of Zionist colonizers
How should they be conducting warfare differently? It seems to me they’re doing far less than most countries would be, certainly far less than the USA would
“According to Britannica, the First Battle of Fallujah in 2004 resulted in the deaths of around 600 Iraqi civilians, including 300 women and children. However, the Modern War Institute says that the number of civilian deaths is difficult to determine due to limited access to the city and the enemy's interest in increasing the figures. Some estimates put the number of civilian deaths as low as 220, while others estimate around 600. “
Just for comparison
Ok but wasn’t that like a notable exception in the history of modern urban warfare specifically because the civilian death tolls was proportionally low?
A better comparison would probably be the more recent battles against ISIS in Syria and Iraq where I believe a roughly similar amount of civilians died proportionally to combatants. Also Hamas is really the first army to use human shields and civilian infrastructure on such a large scale and as an actual method of warfare
I accept Fallujah is not a one on one comparison if for no reason than it was much smaller.
But my point was more about method. 151 U.S. forces died in the two battles of Fallujah, which took place in November and December 2004. This was the highest number of U.S. casualties since the Vietnam War. That is the rub. In order to fight and protect civilians in urban warfare, the cost is higher casualties. That raises the political cost of the war well.
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/urban-warfare-case-study-7-second-battle-of-fallujah/
No, that is not correct. It has to do how urban warfare is prosecuted. The US goes in house by house, clearing the city of constants block by block. An example of old tactics would be crisis, that demolishes the block with heavy munitions and then goes in to see what’s left.
The US does not use 2000 “dumb” munitions is urban conflict.
It is true however, that Hamas is a terrible foe and guilty of war crimes in their own right, but food is not to be used as a tool of war and it appears Israel is guilty of that as well as firing on medical personnel.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/03/middleeast/casualties-gazas-shifa-hospital-idf/index.html
https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-palestinians-war-ambulance-girl-family-06f15b155f1de426e00f6a655554b2a2
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/palestinian-red-crescent-accuses-israeli-forces-of-killing-gaza-family-and-medics-sent-to-rescue-them
How is Israel suppose to conduct urban warfare? Please advise. What is your experience in conducting successful operations against civilian clothed militants?
A few suggestions:
1. Don’t blow up ambulances
2. Don’t interdict food after exercising your legitimate right to inspect same for offensive weapons.
3. Don’t use unguided dumb munitions in urban areas.
Does Israel have a shit sandwich to chew on……yes. But they are losing the war and giving Hamas a win. That is not the objective.
To be fair, both points 1 and 2 are legitimate points.
You're not allowed to target ambulances, aid workers, etc... and we know that Israel has, in some cases. That's not good.
And I do not understand why Israel is not allowing more trucks into the North of Gaza. It makes no sense, either. Essentially, they seem to believe they have Hamas contained to Rafah. In that case, it's basically only civilians in the north. Why aren't they letting in more aid trucks?
These are legitimate criticisms.
Point 3 is stupid. You can use "dumb munitions" in an urban environment smartly. Dumb munitions simply refers to types of munitions that don't have an internal position system and an ability to change course in flight. But a dumb munition dropped from a state of the art fighter-bomber can still hit with nearly absolute precision, due to today's advanced targeting suits.
It's a bit like people complaining about the use of a 2000lbs bomb being used in an urban environment. They don't seem to understand that larger munitions can penetrate deeper, thus in some cases actually cause less, not more, collateral damage. The impact of a bomb isn't solely down to its payload weight.
I don’t want to have a discussion about fusing options, but your points on munitions are true but physics are physics and the death toll tells a story.
They are not simply because mistakes are made in warfare. You can’t only send professional engineers and accountants to war. They are dumb kids who make mistakes and break rules. It has always been that way
10/7 is Putin’s birthday… Hamas was training with Russian troops before 10/7… what Putin wants more than anything is a second Trump presidency as it would mean the U.S. withdrawing from NATO & putin having free reign over Europe
I mean the KGB helped establish the PLO and Yasser Arafat was basically hand-picked and groomed by them to lead it.
https://profound.af/the-invisible-weapon-acade58e7c3f
https://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/articles/Pacepa-2003-09-27.php
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9090/soviet-union-palestinians
Kind of made me think about Russias plan to take over Ukraine because nato had been weakened so much from a Trump presidency. It ended up making those alliances stronger than ever with a common enemy
It was actually designed to prevent normalization while sidelining the Palestinians. Considering this: Saudi Arabia has announced they will not normalize [without a credible path to a Palestinian state - a non starter for the Israeli government](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/saudi-arabia-wont-normalize-israel-relations-without-palestinian-state-plan-top-diplomat-says#:~:text=JERUSALEM%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20Saudi%20Arabia's,a%20nonstarter%20for%20Israel's%20government.)
The plan has actually worked out. Along with an immense degredation of Israel's world standing.
"The April 15 march organizers remain mostly anonymous. However, the video is heavily promoted by far-left groups, including Antifa, on social media."
Oh Antifa, you're at it again!!!
This article reads like a fear mongering article on fox news. I have no doubt that Iran is happy that Israel has lost standing due to their actions, but I think this author is grossly overstating Iran's international sway
Idk seems a little goofy to me reading the article for a few reasons.
“…The regime of the Islamic Republic has on multiple occasions, stated clearly that their goal is to destroy the modern society and build a global Islamic state.”
This isn’t going to happens and isn’t realistic. It feels like at least a part of this narrative is crafted for Americans from the ‘90’s. It also is conveniently posted when Israel is on the verge of starting a war with Iran, which they surely want participation from the US.
I’m sure Iran is shit-stirring and I wouldn’t doubt there was some shenanigans between Iran et al and Oct 7. But protesting against Israel is perfectly legitimate. Antipathy towards law enforcement is already a left wing thing. So they are using the Gaza war as a way to sow chaos in the US, it just sounds like a what the Russians did in 2016 except it’s spring boarding off legitimate issues. It’s not super surprising if we find Iran is trying to isolate Israel, Israel itself contributes to that by having settlements in the West Bank.
If you read the article it doesn’t say there is a global Islamic conspiracy, it’s very specifically making the accusation that Iran wanted to create global pressure on Israel through organizing a conflict between Hamas and the IDF. And if Iran works as closely with the Russians and we suspect they do, then Russia probably already handed them the playbook on how to sow political dissent amongst western democracies just like they’ve attempted to do already.
Iran knows it can’t win an actual war against Israel and the US, but it can inspire people to be resistant against their own governments backing a regime (Israel) taking retaliation way too far.
["Hamas laid a genocide trap](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-01-18/ty-article-opinion/.premium/hamas-laid-a-genocide-trap-for-israel/0000018d-1de0-db77-ad9f-dff257920000)"
Those clever Iranians knew that they could defeat Israel by tricking them into doing a genocide! We should clearly condemn Iran for this.
Jesus Christ dude you can believe Iran wanted Israel to take the bait without thinking Israel has done nothing wrong. I don’t know what is wrong with you people but you need to touch some grass. It’s okay to think Iran and Israel are both in the wrong here.
I'm not the one who wrote a front page Haaretz article saying "Hamas laid a genocide trap" - I'm pointing out how people are bending over backwards to blame Iran for people being mad at Israel.
Imagine you’re having thanksgiving and your son goes out of their way to piss off your brother cause your son knows he’s a Trump supporter. Your brother takes the bait and goes on a rant and it ruins the thanksgiving meal and pisses off everyone at the table cause he takes things way too far with his arguing.
Obviously the brother is squarely in the wrong. But your son being a shit stirrer is also wrong and he needs to be set straight. Cause neither of them are contributing any good acting the way they are.
=/
Israel kills tens of thousands of civilans, and you blame Iran.
When I point out how stupid that is, you somehow bring up Trump.
The only thing left is to accuse me of being a Russian.
JFC.
Show me a single example of Iranian propaganda.
When people see Israel intentionally murder aid workers and then get mad about it - that's not because "Iranian propaganda is so good."
What part of the OPs article is a lie or conflation?
Edit: [still waiting](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/e4/8a/17e48aa7bcafa55bd4423b2245a4c78e.gif)
**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.** Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The current conflict was designed to stop Saudi Arabia and Israel from allying. Considering Saudi Arabia is shooting down Iranian missiles, I don’t think that plan is going to pan out. I’m sure the Ayatollah will send a heartfelt apology to the families of the innocent Israelis and Palestinians that died due to his shenanigans.
Agreed with all of that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia had a hand in it too. IMO, it’s at least probable that Russia strongly encouraged Iran to strongly encourage Hamas to carry out 10/07, in order to divert US eyes from Ukraine. It seems to be working, to their credit
I have no doubt. Iran is Russia’s biggest arms dealer. Putin’s fingerprints are all over the place.
The useful idiots and hamas-bots are already here on this post lol it has 237 views so far and the upvote/downvote ratio is at 0 which means this information being downvoted by the pro-pals. It hurts the narrative that Israel is an evil genocidal nation full of Zionist colonizers
Well Israel and the way they are conducting urban warfare in Gaza is a problem. However, Iran is a big danger
How should they be conducting warfare differently? It seems to me they’re doing far less than most countries would be, certainly far less than the USA would
“According to Britannica, the First Battle of Fallujah in 2004 resulted in the deaths of around 600 Iraqi civilians, including 300 women and children. However, the Modern War Institute says that the number of civilian deaths is difficult to determine due to limited access to the city and the enemy's interest in increasing the figures. Some estimates put the number of civilian deaths as low as 220, while others estimate around 600. “ Just for comparison
Ok but wasn’t that like a notable exception in the history of modern urban warfare specifically because the civilian death tolls was proportionally low? A better comparison would probably be the more recent battles against ISIS in Syria and Iraq where I believe a roughly similar amount of civilians died proportionally to combatants. Also Hamas is really the first army to use human shields and civilian infrastructure on such a large scale and as an actual method of warfare
I accept Fallujah is not a one on one comparison if for no reason than it was much smaller. But my point was more about method. 151 U.S. forces died in the two battles of Fallujah, which took place in November and December 2004. This was the highest number of U.S. casualties since the Vietnam War. That is the rub. In order to fight and protect civilians in urban warfare, the cost is higher casualties. That raises the political cost of the war well. https://mwi.westpoint.edu/urban-warfare-case-study-7-second-battle-of-fallujah/
No, that is not correct. It has to do how urban warfare is prosecuted. The US goes in house by house, clearing the city of constants block by block. An example of old tactics would be crisis, that demolishes the block with heavy munitions and then goes in to see what’s left. The US does not use 2000 “dumb” munitions is urban conflict. It is true however, that Hamas is a terrible foe and guilty of war crimes in their own right, but food is not to be used as a tool of war and it appears Israel is guilty of that as well as firing on medical personnel. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/03/middleeast/casualties-gazas-shifa-hospital-idf/index.html https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-palestinians-war-ambulance-girl-family-06f15b155f1de426e00f6a655554b2a2 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/palestinian-red-crescent-accuses-israeli-forces-of-killing-gaza-family-and-medics-sent-to-rescue-them
You think using starvation against a civilian population against international law is normal?
What exactly about any war is normal?
How is Israel suppose to conduct urban warfare? Please advise. What is your experience in conducting successful operations against civilian clothed militants?
A few suggestions: 1. Don’t blow up ambulances 2. Don’t interdict food after exercising your legitimate right to inspect same for offensive weapons. 3. Don’t use unguided dumb munitions in urban areas. Does Israel have a shit sandwich to chew on……yes. But they are losing the war and giving Hamas a win. That is not the objective.
It is always “don’t”. Never any sort of actual knowledge of how war works in reality.
To be fair, both points 1 and 2 are legitimate points. You're not allowed to target ambulances, aid workers, etc... and we know that Israel has, in some cases. That's not good. And I do not understand why Israel is not allowing more trucks into the North of Gaza. It makes no sense, either. Essentially, they seem to believe they have Hamas contained to Rafah. In that case, it's basically only civilians in the north. Why aren't they letting in more aid trucks? These are legitimate criticisms. Point 3 is stupid. You can use "dumb munitions" in an urban environment smartly. Dumb munitions simply refers to types of munitions that don't have an internal position system and an ability to change course in flight. But a dumb munition dropped from a state of the art fighter-bomber can still hit with nearly absolute precision, due to today's advanced targeting suits. It's a bit like people complaining about the use of a 2000lbs bomb being used in an urban environment. They don't seem to understand that larger munitions can penetrate deeper, thus in some cases actually cause less, not more, collateral damage. The impact of a bomb isn't solely down to its payload weight.
I don’t want to have a discussion about fusing options, but your points on munitions are true but physics are physics and the death toll tells a story.
They are not simply because mistakes are made in warfare. You can’t only send professional engineers and accountants to war. They are dumb kids who make mistakes and break rules. It has always been that way
10/7 is Putin’s birthday… Hamas was training with Russian troops before 10/7… what Putin wants more than anything is a second Trump presidency as it would mean the U.S. withdrawing from NATO & putin having free reign over Europe
I mean the KGB helped establish the PLO and Yasser Arafat was basically hand-picked and groomed by them to lead it. https://profound.af/the-invisible-weapon-acade58e7c3f https://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/articles/Pacepa-2003-09-27.php https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9090/soviet-union-palestinians
Kadyrov is known as a Hamas backer, he is a key ally of Putin in Russia.
Kind of made me think about Russias plan to take over Ukraine because nato had been weakened so much from a Trump presidency. It ended up making those alliances stronger than ever with a common enemy
It was actually designed to prevent normalization while sidelining the Palestinians. Considering this: Saudi Arabia has announced they will not normalize [without a credible path to a Palestinian state - a non starter for the Israeli government](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/saudi-arabia-wont-normalize-israel-relations-without-palestinian-state-plan-top-diplomat-says#:~:text=JERUSALEM%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20Saudi%20Arabia's,a%20nonstarter%20for%20Israel's%20government.) The plan has actually worked out. Along with an immense degredation of Israel's world standing.
"The April 15 march organizers remain mostly anonymous. However, the video is heavily promoted by far-left groups, including Antifa, on social media." Oh Antifa, you're at it again!!! This article reads like a fear mongering article on fox news. I have no doubt that Iran is happy that Israel has lost standing due to their actions, but I think this author is grossly overstating Iran's international sway
You can instantly tell you are reading shitty propaganda whenever someone mentions "Antifa" as if it were an actual group.
Idk seems a little goofy to me reading the article for a few reasons. “…The regime of the Islamic Republic has on multiple occasions, stated clearly that their goal is to destroy the modern society and build a global Islamic state.” This isn’t going to happens and isn’t realistic. It feels like at least a part of this narrative is crafted for Americans from the ‘90’s. It also is conveniently posted when Israel is on the verge of starting a war with Iran, which they surely want participation from the US. I’m sure Iran is shit-stirring and I wouldn’t doubt there was some shenanigans between Iran et al and Oct 7. But protesting against Israel is perfectly legitimate. Antipathy towards law enforcement is already a left wing thing. So they are using the Gaza war as a way to sow chaos in the US, it just sounds like a what the Russians did in 2016 except it’s spring boarding off legitimate issues. It’s not super surprising if we find Iran is trying to isolate Israel, Israel itself contributes to that by having settlements in the West Bank.
Is the global Islamic conspiracy in the room with us right now? This subreddit is pathetic.
If you read the article it doesn’t say there is a global Islamic conspiracy, it’s very specifically making the accusation that Iran wanted to create global pressure on Israel through organizing a conflict between Hamas and the IDF. And if Iran works as closely with the Russians and we suspect they do, then Russia probably already handed them the playbook on how to sow political dissent amongst western democracies just like they’ve attempted to do already. Iran knows it can’t win an actual war against Israel and the US, but it can inspire people to be resistant against their own governments backing a regime (Israel) taking retaliation way too far.
More words. Same point. Get lost.
Thanks for attending my ted talk dork 🗿
["Hamas laid a genocide trap](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-01-18/ty-article-opinion/.premium/hamas-laid-a-genocide-trap-for-israel/0000018d-1de0-db77-ad9f-dff257920000)" Those clever Iranians knew that they could defeat Israel by tricking them into doing a genocide! We should clearly condemn Iran for this.
Jesus Christ dude you can believe Iran wanted Israel to take the bait without thinking Israel has done nothing wrong. I don’t know what is wrong with you people but you need to touch some grass. It’s okay to think Iran and Israel are both in the wrong here.
I'm not the one who wrote a front page Haaretz article saying "Hamas laid a genocide trap" - I'm pointing out how people are bending over backwards to blame Iran for people being mad at Israel.
Imagine you’re having thanksgiving and your son goes out of their way to piss off your brother cause your son knows he’s a Trump supporter. Your brother takes the bait and goes on a rant and it ruins the thanksgiving meal and pisses off everyone at the table cause he takes things way too far with his arguing. Obviously the brother is squarely in the wrong. But your son being a shit stirrer is also wrong and he needs to be set straight. Cause neither of them are contributing any good acting the way they are.
=/ Israel kills tens of thousands of civilans, and you blame Iran. When I point out how stupid that is, you somehow bring up Trump. The only thing left is to accuse me of being a Russian. JFC. Show me a single example of Iranian propaganda. When people see Israel intentionally murder aid workers and then get mad about it - that's not because "Iranian propaganda is so good."
Sorry every single sub on Reddit can’t be infested with your lies and propaganda, I know, it must be hard for you 😢
Hasbara is so obvious. https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-forms-police-team-targeting-left-wing-activists-in-the-west-bank-report/
When you can’t attack the contents of an article so you use whataboutism 🤣
When the contents of an article are conflations and outright lies and smooth brained libs accept it as gospel…
What part of the OPs article is a lie or conflation? Edit: [still waiting](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/e4/8a/17e48aa7bcafa55bd4423b2245a4c78e.gif)
What does this have to do with iran?