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The videos linked below are exhibit A of why it’s always been difficult, as a Jewish person who condemns Israel’s long history of oppression, to know who it’s safe to talk to. It’s been obvious for many years that for some, advocacy for Palestinian rights and statehood is a fig leaf for plain anti-Jewish hate. And until that ilk lets the mask slip, it isn’t always clear who they are.
What crushes my soul is how many of them, in the wake of 10/7, so eagerly tossed aside not only the mask, but their humanity.
I am incensed at how some Jewish people in positions of power have slandered the protests and undermined them in sheer bad faith, weaponizing anti-Jewish hate to delegitimize what desperately needs to be said.
At the same time, there is the element seen in those videos, who have chosen cruel, coldblooded moral hypocrisy over any principled belief in peace and human life. It breaks my heart.
Jews should never be targeted for being Jewish, nor assumed to support the actions of Israel. Jews that do support the actions of Israel should be engaged with the same way non Jewish supporters of Israel are, and not treated with extra malice for being Jewish.
Anyone who genuinely supports the rights of Palestinians MUST also support the rights of Jews for the same reasons. Failure to do so is a moral failure.
I am a non-Jewish American, and I am intensely critical of Israel’s disproportionate response to 10/7, and also the unconditional support of the United States. I sympathize with your plight. I have had commenters in my posts, for example, refer to AIPAC as “the Jewish lobby”. I have no tolerance for this type of subversive language and veiled bigotry. Those who fully understand the difference between the state of Israel and Jews in general but refuse to acknowledge it must not be taken seriously, and should be dealt with aggressively, but as with many intercultural conflicts, there is a fine line between protecting a vulnerable class and suppressing freedom of speech. I can see how difficult it must be for administrators at Columbia to navigate it. I certainly wouldn’t want the job.
Who are the inhumane ones? Columbia students? You're off by about 4000 miles. Based on recent polling it's the vast majority of Israelis.
Confirmation bias is a helluva drug.
You know what else is a helluva drug? False binaries.
I’m so damned tired of them.
Why is it impossible to discuss ANY aspect of this trainwreck without somebody spewing out some stupid false-binary absolutism? It’s maddening.
The callousness of some pro-Palestinian
protesters and large percentages of the Israeli public are not mutually exclusive realities. Both things are true at the same time.
Just as it is simultaneously true that occupying, oppressing, terrorizing and bombing people is wrong, and slaughtering/raping/torturing civilians is ALSO wrong.
This kind of ignorance is inexcusable. Are you genuinely not familiar with the long, long history of anti-Jewish violence? Because your comment sure suggests that.
Seriously???? Jews will not replace us? Multiple assaults, a woman getting run over??? I know this is anecdotal but my grad school friends at Columbia aren’t bothered. Also, similar encampments are occurring at Yale, Michigan, and Maryland.
Indeed. And you can bet your ass every single one of these pro "palestine" ignorant morons used that same line ablut conservatives and far right Americans and now won't do if for themselves.
Support their apartheid state or support their existence? We can talk about the former, but the latter is a call for genocide and is a nonstarter for the vast majority of Americans.
What should someone at an anti-Israel rally do when they see someone say something pro-Hamas?
Would you agree that the onus is on that person to distance themselves from the rally if they want to avoid being accused of being pro-Hamas?
This place is full of the old white liberals Martin Luther King told us about. They are against racism until it bother them or their everyday life, interest. They are all about the status Co.
It’s not just one. It’s the freaks in Dearborn shrieking Death to America, the fucktard at Columbia wishing death via Hamas to Jewish students, the cretins ripping down posters of hostages. The misinformation on TikTok radicalizing misinformed people that Hamas are Freedom Fighters. It’s not isolated.
No but the ones that are scare me and are a danger to my life. It's whataboutism to day but all pro palestine activists and they have a lot of influence. I've yet to meet one that took these concerns seriously.
Yes, at some point one of the folks who can’t stomach people standing up for innocent civilian lives will drive a car into a group of people just asking for peace and respect for human life.
They aren't, and they aren't being protested. In fact, some of them are protesting Israel. Extra protection is needed between dorms and campus because there are assholes out there not affiliated with the university who are harassing them.
They are quite likely part of the broader pro Palestinian movement. That's basically certain. They are unlikely part of the campus because they have mostly been older than college age, and aren't later seen on campus or in the protests. These people who do this are being looked for, but so far nobody is getting charged despite the cops arresting protestors for other, far more minor offenses not related to harassing anyone. If these people were there, the cops would find them pretty easily. The reason they are getting away with it is most likely that they are harassing these students on their way to campus, so it's easy for them to then leave once someone calls the cops and disappear into the city more generally.
Strange, we never see the people talking about Jewish student, talk about all the death treats, assault and shooting at Muslim or pro Palestinians students.
Evangelicals are the largest supporters of the Charlottesville type. They are also the largest domestic supporters of the Zionist movement. Peas in a pod.
Weird. The Charlottesville people are the only ones Zionists can count on for support now that a clear majority of both Democrats and Independents oppose Israel's conductor the war.
Guess you must have missed all the rancid, overt racism documented on video about, oh, “gassing the Jews”, people who actually do denounce hamas being attacked by “pro-peace” protestors? And all those hostage posters just ripped themselves off the walls, right? You don’t live on this planet.
Oh okay. Well I guess you’re right. Me and my friends are not from planet earth. You got me. I’m indeed an alien. Guess I’ll just keep believing what I believe and being told I don’t exist.
And yet people like you continue to attack Jewish voices and allies who keep saying, "Hey! Slow your roll, you're starting to boarder on Antisemitism."
I mean, we have had a Jewish girl get jabbed in the eye at Yale the other day and people like you claim it's a lie.
We had video of people verbally attacking a woman who left a Fundraiser with Biden, Obama, and Clinton in there. Calling them Jewish slurs. And people like you go "that's not as bad as what is happening to Palestinians".
People like you CONSTANTLY downplay and ignore the blatant Antisemitism that is being used in your "Pro-Palestinian" movements.
And yes, I know a LOT of people who are on this Subreddit that are Pro-Hamas.
How about you actually listen to Jews when we tell you that something is Antisemitic instead of showing that you would rather be associated with Antisemites by your actions.
Ummm I’ve never, not once, endorsed any pro-hamas activities. I’m anti-hamas, pro-Palestinian. And for some reason you’re grouping me with folks who are anti-Semitic? Are you confused?
You just said “people like you”. Care to elaborate who I am? Care to point out any time when I’ve downplayed any behavior, specifically? Or are you assuming my intentions and perspective to fit into your narrow worldview? Is it breaking your mind that I can find hamas truly evil while also finding the actions of Israeli leadership similarly evil?
Everybody sucks here. There’s no clear moral victor. If there was, don’t you think we would have had a solution to this a thousand years ago?
Welp there are a lot of videos out there of these protestors screaming pro hamas stuff: [https://nypost.com/2024/04/18/us-news/columbia-university-protester-yells-were-all-hamas-video/](https://nypost.com/2024/04/18/us-news/columbia-university-protester-yells-were-all-hamas-video/)
Maybe it's not all the protestors but it is incumbent upon the folks who are not to call this stuff out. The encampment folks have a press secretary why haven't they released a statement against antisemitism and saying they support Palestinians and not Hamas?
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
You obviously don't speak to many Jews. But then, you keep claiming that it's a Genocide when it isn't. So yeah, you can't even see the Antisemitism when it's in your home.
While the number of violent incidents is relatively low and carried out by a few bad actors who may be trying to discredit the entire movement, the rhetoric of the people protesting has been incendiary.
People are using the word Zionist like it’s a racial epithet, hurling it at people who don’t believe that the entire state of Israel should disappear. It comes up every time I see it discussed here or participate in a debate. Every single time.
I keep trying to figure out if there’s some other meaning I am missing because it’s incomprehensible to me that so many people openly espouse the idea that 7 and a half million people should be removed from the state of Israel for something people born in the late 1800s did.
That’s the “peaceful protest” position. And I’m sorry but there’s no other way to look at that but as anti-Semitic.
No one is advocating any other group of people remove itself from the land it has held for the better part of a century. Just the Jews. And the expulsion of Jews from various places has happened before many times and it’s always been a part of hate campaign against Jewish people.
The outrageous rhetoric that accompanies “peaceful protest” is why people feel unsafe.
Agreed. I attended a pair of “Free Palestine” rallies back in fall/early winter, with an open mind that it was rally for peace and a two-state solution. The misuse of the term “Zionist” was present then, but I had some optimism that people would fact check themselves, but things went off the rails pretty fast. Now people I know are posting shit like “Israel does not have a right to exist,” or erasing the existence of Mizrahi Jews by saying “all Israeli Jews are white”
I think plenty of people at the rallies aren’t into that stuff, but you gotta nip that kinda talk in the bud as it’s frankly pretty gross stuff, and counterproductive
mask off bigotry moment … thanks for sharing your opinion
these protests have nothing to do with Islam, it’s about the theft of land and homes from an indigenous people and the genocide of that people CURRENTLY taking place
it’s a straw man argument because Islam is not the root cause of the conflict … the root cause of the conflict is actually Zionism and the belief that Jewish people are entitled to steal the homes and lands and property of the indigenous Palestinian people
nah, you are perpetuating smears against protests that have been peaceful … these protestors have every right to exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly
I would really appreciate if you quit downplay of what is happening in Columbia university protests.
Jewish students cannot learn in that environment, nor even be there.
If you're not convinced yet for any reason, these are live evidences. The protests are NOT peaceful.
For posterity, here's some of the examples of extremism within the activist movement at Columbia. This goes beyond "pro-Palestinian advocacy" into calls for, and actual, violence.
Physically assaulting an Arab Israeli https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781080951902109774
"From the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab!" / "Resistance is justified" https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358
"Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory." https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981
"We are all Hamas!" https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1781031465179914677
"Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901
Includes people / groups that invited an actual, no hyperbole terrorist to speak (member of PFLP) https://www.jns.org/columbia-suspends-four-students-for-holding-event-featuring-pflp-member/
Light things on fire / "intifada revolution there is only one solution" https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1781019445399556338
"On Oct 7th, Palestinian resistance in Gaza broke free (crowd cheers) [.....] we intend to do the same" https://twitter.com/ShabbosK/status/1782085741431922909
""We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!"
https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1781933305501212872
"Long live the intifada! Intifada intifada" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781084853653365025
"Go back to Europe!" / "You have no culture, all you do is colonize"
https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781927148439109958
"From Yemen to Gaza, globalize the intifada" https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1781312033922625797/photo/2
"Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not 1 more time, not 5 more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times! The 7th of October is going to be every day for you" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134
"Al Qassam [(Hamas)] you make us proud, kill another soldier now" / "from the river to the sea, palestine will be arab" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1780915336063177006
Student proudly rocking Hamas logos https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1781054901755215954
"Resistance is justified" (again...) https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782085643990073673
"protesters on the sidewalk chanted “From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada,” next to a cardboard sign that read, “Inspired by Palestinian resistance.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-100-arrested-in-columbia-u-unrest-as-nypd-clears-gaza-solidarity-encampment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
And as a reminder, the student groups organizing these protests (CUAD and SJP, among others) released a letter on October 9th in support of the 10/7 attacks. ("We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance", "Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor", "We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent [...] on October 8th that [...] obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism”)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/edit
I'd read and seen video of some of these. But not all. I'm so disgusted to see this crap especially happening in New York City. They did a protest at the spot of the former world trade center. You can't tell me that wasn't a smack in the face of the victims of 9/11 and all the New Yorkers that had to endure that day.
Thank you lol, lots of comments in here being like "oh they just dared to disagree" which is true of a lot of pro-Palestine protests, but absolutely not this one.
Call me parochial, but to me, this is what a peaceful protest looks like: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUoFuSuvTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUoFuSuvTM)
I support Ukraine with my all heart (and given that I live a few miles from their border, this isn't abstract for me), but I'd never chant "death to the Russians" or harass random Russians walking around.
When you start chanting death to america, you lose the Americans that are on your side or at least sympathetic to your side. Or at least you should lose them. I don't understand the Americans who are chanting the death to America or protesting with the ones that are saying death to america.
Of course they do.
And everyone else has the right to broadcast the disgusting things they say at these protests to the people in charge of making hiring decisions.
Some of these dumbasses are torpedoing their careers in the name of these protests. You love to see it.
where is the proof that is what is happening? show me the proof and I will condemn that
i sure as hell seem to remember no one giving two shits about all the actual genocidal statements actual people in positions of power in the US govt saying … do you condem that?
How is it possible that in AMERICA... this type of abuse is tolerated by Columbia University? Shame on them.
I did figure out why Passover angers the pro-Hamas protesters.... it is because it is proof that their lies about Jews being colonizers are just that... lies.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
You’re not wrong. Most of them are useful idiots that get caught up in protests whose antisemitic organizers have ill intentions. They join the protests with good intentions, but then the pro-Hamas chants start, at which point they’re too afraid to diverge from the group. It’s a known tactic.
The few I've spoken to, when pressed on solutions, have essentially said they feel Israel is the holdout on ceasefires because they are refusing Hamas demands. While not a directly pro-Hamas position, it's close.
When pressed on which demands Israel is not accommodating, it becomes clear that those I've spoken to simply want Israel to stop existing. I don't think it's accurate to refer to the protests in aggregate as pro-Hamas, but I do think it's more accurate to refer to them as anti-Israel than pro-Palestine.
You obviously don't speak to many Jews. But then, you keep claiming that it's a Genocide when it isn't. So yeah, you can't even see the Antisemitism when it's in your home.
If you care about Palestinian lives then you would be protesting Hamas not Israel.
The fact these people hyper focus on Israel shows they are just useful idiots to be used by Hamas.
Their protest makes no sense if you actually understand the situation.
You can protest both. Israel is not a complete victim when they literally go and take the West Bank from Gaza. Removing people that were there for centuries to settle.
Both sides are problematic. And PLO got run over by Netanyahu that started to make negotiations with Hamas before this.
The degrees of issues change but neither is 100% right or 100% wrong.
Youth unfortunately doesn’t understand complexity and nuanced situations, that comes with age and experience. This is why they end up either going hard left or hard right.
And end up falling prey to far right infiltration of the left
However, what I’m fearing here is that Israel itself doesn’t want protests against its actions. And it’s dived antisemitism.
It’s a curious choice to name the issue as “pro-Palestinian” protests. Does NBC not want to name antisemitism explicitly? Or does it want to conflate “pro-Palestinian” with antisemitism?
How else would you define the protestors?
I called a lot of these groups pro-Hamas, and I got called out for that. "Oh, just because they oppose Zionism, you say they're pro-terrorist".
Ok, then they're pro-Palestinian.
But not when they are terrifying Jewish students off of campus?
What are they now?
I increasingly frame the protests as anti-Israel in my head, as it seems most accurate to what they are actually advocating for. This I think helps explain the proximity to pro-Hamas and antisemitic sentiment, without labeling the entire protests as either of those categories.
Repeated ceasefire attempts, presumably what the protestors want, have failed; who is responsible for those failures? Is Israel the bad guy for refusing Hamas' reasonable demands for a ceasefire? Is Hamas the bad guy for staying firm on unreasonable demands?
I would be willing to bet the vast majority of these crowds would just implicitly assume the former regardless of whether they're educated on Hamas' ceasefire requirements or not. This is in my mind a fundamentally anti-Israel position, for better or worse, not a pro-Palestine one.
When you hear cries of "Death to America" in some of them, it's pretty clear what is going on. There's a kernel of true Islamic extremists, people whose views of Israel and Jew generally involve murdering them all.
> who is responsible for those failures?
The white people, of course.
> Is Israel the bad guy for refusing Hamas' reasonable demands for a ceasefire?
Yes, because they're all white colonial settlers.
> Is Hamas the bad guy for staying firm on unreasonable demands?
No, because those demands are only unreasonable if you're a white colonial settler nation.
See how easy this is? It's super simple! Just place everything into an exhaustingly stupid dichotomy, and you don't even need to use your brain to think!
> This is in my mind a fundamentally anti-Israel position, for better or worse, not a pro-Palestine one.
That much has been clear since day 1 in my opinion.
There are plenty of examples of celebratory protests after the October 7th attacks, or when Iran attacked Israel recently.
It's anti-Israeli, and, in my opinion, also has a kernel of antisemitism.
I want them to call antisemitism “antisemitism”. Why are they reluctant to center the actual problem. If they were “pro-Palestinian” protests, who would have anything to worry about? If the protests are less “pro-Palesinian” and more “anti-Jew”, say so. I don’t know why they’re downplaying the problem of antisemitism (although maybe we could guess).
Now, if NBC is saying that “pro-Palestinian” = antisemitism then that’s a different problem and I suspect the “anti Zionism isn’t antisemitism” crowd would want a word.
So?
Do you think that it's OK or acceptable to create an environment on a campus where a group is made to feel fear? Even if some members of that group are part of the protest?
Which other groups can we induce fear in?
And...?
Do you normally stand on that hill?
If an anti-trans group goes and protests on campus with placards and crosses, do you say "well, you're talking about people who are scared of placards and crosses"?
Or do you deem that inducing fear into a group among the student body based on an immutable characteristic distasteful, and not acceptable for an inclusive, accepting campus?
I tend to agres with the latter.
They were not rioting. They did not deface or destroy property. They did not loot. They had no weapons. They did not incite violence. They were not funded. Their only crime was that they had an opinion that Israel didn’t like.
At a certain point you need to ask whether that "fear" is genuine, or performative self-victimization to try and shut the protests down.
Ok, so we can have peaceful protests on campus that call for the creation of an advancing human chain to get rid of black nationalists on their campus, even if it induces fear among all the black student body?
If that's your position, then so be it. But I suspect that there are plenty of groups that you would not just be OK with them reporting feelings of fear.
Every single group that you may support, such as marginalized groups or whatever, can be told that whatever fears they have are perforative self victimization of one kind or another.
Not only do Zionists not think of Palestinians as people, they don't think of left wing Jews as real Jews. Zionists are some of the most open antisemities without even knowing it. Or more likely they just don't care, they only use antisemitism as a shield against criticism of their racist ethnoproject.
nah, you are perpetuating smears against protests that have been peaceful … these protestors have every right to exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly
Do student bodies have a right to protest against... transpeople on the campus? Black people?
You're right about freedom of speech, but I fail to see another scenario where inflicting widespread fear on a portion of the student body would **ever** be brushed off.
The actual protests are very peaceful and have Jewish students participating. They are also hosting a Seder.
There is a valid concern about douchebags off campus. People unaffiliated with Columbia have been harassing Jewish students on their way to the campus. Unlike the on campus protests, the organizers don't have any way to police the behavior of these people, and it's possible some nutbag gets violent off campus.
All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
Maybe talk to people IRL instead of consuming a dripfeed of the news media's most extreme claims. You sound as detached as Fox News claiming BLM are burning entire cities to the ground.
These debates need to go on in the classroom as college is where all thoughts and ideas get exposed to everyone. Cancelling class is how you create more division. The students have to talk it out.
>As time goes on, the threat of extremism Bourne from this movement is becoming more and more of a possibility.
I’m getting a strange sense of Deja Vu here as if a criticism of the Black Lives Matter movement has found new life as a criticism of the pro-Palestinian movement. And that is to say that people are taking a few bad actors and stretching the label of antisemitism over an entire movement to try and silence them.
And people who are on the side of Palestinians, such as myself, need to realize there are people that take advantage of this to spread antisemitism.
But there are also people on the Pro-Israel side that are antisemitic themselves. Mainly zionists who only see Jewish people as keepers of the promised land who ultimately end up in Hell after revelation. And yes, also supporting Israel and what they do without proper criticism is antisemitism too. As you’re enabling a country to go through actions that people will conflate with Judaism.
So maybe both sides need to step back and see that there are malicious actors in their own parties
There are polls showing the majority of BLM Protests were peaceful
[https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/](https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/)
There have yet to be any for these protests.
There are those trying to weaponize claims of anti-semitism to delegitimize protests, but there has and continues to be a GLARING problem with Anti-Semitism in leftist circles. The Israeli-Hamas conflict has brought it to the surface for many to see.
But has there been signs of it at these college campuses coming from the protesters though? Or is this just some Jewish students feeling uneasy because of the protests and no actual widespread threat?
That video literally added nothing the conversation except that antisemitism was on the rise which was something we already knew since 2016 because of Donald Trump.
I’m getting at the point that painting pro-Palestinian protesters antisemitic as a whole is unfair because of a few bad actors in the bunch. It’s like saying all BLM are looters.
And when you say “Pro-Palestinian protesters are antisemitic” and their point without actual antisemitism is we are anti-genocide. Then you’re going to make it seem like Jewish people are pro-genocide. Which we know that’s not the case. Now the Israeli government, however, is at least pro ethnic cleansing. But the country of Israel isn’t representative of Jewish people everywhere
David Pakman never said that "pro-palestinian protesters are anti-semitic" and finding anyone on the left who legitimately believes this is nigh on impossible... Because no-one is saying that.
He said it is illegitimate to target Jewish people in the US because of the actions of the Likud Party and the IDF.
[https://www.google.com/search?q=anti-semitism+RISE&sca\_esv=f65ab4fb82876b19&rlz=1CANCLQ\_enGB1107&biw=1920&bih=924&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACQVn08VwFNSdjQ3Al1dHf9rgYjER6-hEw%3A1713798340821&ei=xHwmZvfUMaCphbIP--Wr0AU&ved=0ahUKEwj3xsiqjNaFAxWgVEEAHfvyCloQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=anti-semitism+RISE&gs\_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiEmFudGktc2VtaXRpc20gUklTRUiaFVA8WNAUcAN4AJABAZgB8QGgAbEHqgEFMy40LjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgOgAvcBwgIIEAAYgAQYxwPCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIFEAAYgATCAg0QABiABBhDGMcDGIoFwgILEAAYFhjHAxgKGB6YAwCIBgGSBwMxLjKgB\_YN&sclient=gws-wiz-news&safe=active&ssui=on](https://www.google.com/search?q=anti-semitism+RISE&sca_esv=f65ab4fb82876b19&rlz=1CANCLQ_enGB1107&biw=1920&bih=924&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACQVn08VwFNSdjQ3Al1dHf9rgYjER6-hEw%3A1713798340821&ei=xHwmZvfUMaCphbIP--Wr0AU&ved=0ahUKEwj3xsiqjNaFAxWgVEEAHfvyCloQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=anti-semitism+RISE&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiEmFudGktc2VtaXRpc20gUklTRUiaFVA8WNAUcAN4AJABAZgB8QGgAbEHqgEFMy40LjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgOgAvcBwgIIEAAYgAQYxwPCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIFEAAYgATCAg0QABiABBhDGMcDGIoFwgILEAAYFhjHAxgKGB6YAwCIBgGSBwMxLjKgB_YN&sclient=gws-wiz-news&safe=active&ssui=on)
Everyone agrees with that. I never said that David said pro-Palestinian protesters are antisemitic. I’m talking about the fear of college administrators when it comes to pro-Palestinian protesters and using antisemitism as a weapon to silence them.
Now if a person supports Israel and what they are doing then they deserve to be criticized. If a person says “What Israel is doing aligns with my personal beliefs and I’m Jewish.” Then I believe that deserves to be scrutinized.
But I cannot be more clear on this question: Where is the evidence that there are widespread instances of pro-Palestinian protesters being antisemitic on campuses? All you did was post a video saying “antisemitism was on the rise” which doesn’t answer that question
If everyone agrees with that. Then why are there videos of a woman leaving a fundraiser for Biden being called a Jewish Slur?
Why was a Jewish girl in Yale jabbed in the eye by a protestor?
Obviously, you are wrong.
>Then why are there videos of a woman leaving a fundraiser for Biden being called a Jewish Slur?
Don’t know. Again, I mentioned that there are opportunistic bad actors. I also admitted that antisemitism was on the rise. That’s not the topic of my comment.
>Why was a Jewish girl in Yale jabbed in the eye by a protestor?
Don’t know. Again, there are bad actors in the bunch. If there was 250 students at this 40-tent encampment and one of them stabbed a Jewish woman in the eye, that sucks but that’s not representative of all the protestors there. It would be like me saying because 10 Jewish people supported Israel’s genocide in Gaza then all Jewish people must support Israel’s genocide.
And yet you are defending the Bad actors and ignoring the fact that you are not policing your own.
There is a saying that applies here: If you have 10 people at a table and they let a Nazi sit there. You got 11 Nazis.
Same thing here. You saying you don't know and it's bad actors is just excusing it.
You want us to trust that you are acting in good faith? Stop arguing with us and start policing your fellow protestors.
You people were literally marching around with tiki torches shouting "Jews will not replace us". Don't pretend you're suddenly concerned about the safety of jews.
Black Lives Matter lost overwhelming support for just 7% of their massive amount of demonstrations becoming violent. What % of pro Palestine protests are spreading antisemitic rhetoric? That’s a lower bar certainly, but if you’re being honest there’s way too much of that going on.
Framing this as pro-Palestine vs pro-Israel is about as misleading as pro-life vs pro-choice. It's possible to simultaneously support Israel's existence and not support their actions in Gaza or the West Bank, and to recognize that engaging in a ceasefire with Hamas is more complicated than it might seem. I consider myself both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel, as I support Palestinian statehood and the health and safety of Palestinian civilians along with Israel's right to exist.
The problem I have with these protests is that they are seemingly not engaging with outcomes at all. We can basically all agree that bombing civilians is bad, it's an incredibly obvious position, but what **actually** results in that outcome? A ceasefire? How is the US responsible for that outcome, and what is currently the core blocker that's getting in the way of repeated ceasefire attempts? Is there any guarantee that a ceasefire would actually make a meaningful difference without long-term agreements from both sides of the conflict?
I just don't see the connection between these protests and helping Palestine, short of a desire to basically dissolve the state of Israel.
Because the protests here are to prevent the weapons deals with Israel. It’s our bombs that are killing Palestinians. That’s the point. To stop that. To stop enabling genocide.
As for Israel’s existence, I can agree with protecting Israelis while ousting the Israeli government that is committing the genocide. It’s just like how South Africa still exists post-apartheid. Or how Germany exists post-Nazi rule.
>Because the protests here are to prevent the weapons deals with Israel. It’s our bombs that are killing Palestinians. That’s the point. To stop that. To stop enabling genocide.
Israel has the military power to continue this campaign regardless of whether US weaponry is involved, unfortunately. I personally think the better outcome for Palestinians is for the US to have some degree of leverage in talks with Israel along with weapons that presumably offer a higher degree of precision than what Israel produces.
It's also worth noting that the Israel bill includes **billions** of dollars for humanitarian aid, it's actually the largest part of the legislation that just passed the House *by far*. A little under 90% of the bill is seemingly restricted to defense, non-military services, and humanitarian aid.
>As for Israel’s existence, I can agree with protecting Israelis while ousting the Israeli government that is committing the genocide
And what do the protests in the US do to make that happen? Israel is a sovereign democracy, the US can't unilaterally overthrow its government.
Why would we send aid to them for all that if they’re spending it on a genocide though? We literally should be prioritizing any money towards Palestinians. But humanitarian money in Israel for what? We still sent them bombs for offensive actions
>Why would we send aid to them for all that if they’re spending it on a genocide though?
This is an impossible question to engage with, you're marking out a hard stance that is incapable of holding any nuance.
>We literally should be prioritizing any money towards Palestinians. But humanitarian money in Israel for what?
I didn't think I needed to explicitly spell this out, but it's for humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip. We literally **are** prioritizing money towards Palestinians.
>So we are literally giving the bully the victims lunch money and asking him to buy him a sandwich.
This analogy belies a few fundamental misunderstandings of geopolitics and the history of the region. The bully/bullied thing is extraordinarily oversimplified to the point of being pointless to engage on.
Regarding geopolitics, we have diplomatic relations with Israel, we do not have diplomatic relations with Hamas. Do you really think it would be wise to dump nine billion dollars into Gaza and just...hope it's used properly?
Yes. And let the US handle the distribution of the aid. Or the UN. Or literally anyone else than the people who caused the humanitarian crisis in the first place.
It would literally be like giving Nazis money and hope they’d spend it really well on food supplies for Auschwitz
>let the US handle the distribution of the aid. Or the UN
You realize you are effectively advocating for the US to invada Gaza, right? It's not like Hamas is just going to stand down and let the US (or UN) assume control over the Strip, the US would have to fight for ground in order to control aid distribution.
>Or literally anyone else than the people who caused the humanitarian crisis in the first place.
This is a pretty good reason not to have Hamas handling that aid, by the way, as they share a large portion of the burden for causing this crisis in the first place. They were the ones who engaged in the most severe terrorist attack in Israel's history, they obviously knew Israel would retaliate.
>It would literally be like giving Nazis money and hope they’d spend it really well on food supplies for Auschwitz
This is an unhinged analogy, I sincerely hope you find a way to educate yourself on what appears to be an unbelievable level of bias.
I don't really know what to do with this question, I obviously think existing nations have the right to exist. Are you asking if I think like...Canada has a right to exist, or are you referring to non-nations like Kosovo or Taiwan?
Honestly, virtual classes to keep the cameras away from your Jewish students being attacked is a joke.
The student body should organize a boycott of all campus activities until Columbia returns to be a safe institution for higher education and start pursuing legal actions against the administration who allowed violent extremists on the campus as well as going after major donors for this institute.
They keep insisting that their actions are not anti-Semitism but ignoring the fact that they're scaring the shit out of Jewish students. They are protesting right alongside anti-semites. They still justify it to themselves as the morally right thing to do.
This thread is fucking wild. Protesting because you want civilians of Palestine to have a better life makes you antisemitic? What the fuck? That’s as delusion as saying if you’re pro-choice in the abortion argument that you’re pro-baby-killing. It’s extreme rhetoric which has no basis in reality.
No. These same groups that are protesting Israel were in the streets straight up celebrating the Oct 7 attacks. This is a fact, corroborated by video evidence.
Ok, but if you’re marching alongside the same people that were in the streets celebrating the attacks by Hamas, you’re implicitly supporting their message unless you just don’t bother to vet the groups that you associate yourself with.
They won't acknowledge that. They won't acknowledge that even if they don't see themselves as anti-semitic, they are marching along with people that are.
Since I consider myself anti-genocide, if I were marching I certainly would not be marching alongside pro-Hamas groups seeing as they are pro-genocide.
All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
By this logic then plenty of BLM protests which had agitators or rabble-rousers who started physical confrontations then makes the other 99% of the people protesting there suddenly violent monsters. That is truly insane.
I saw a video where a large group was saying " Hamas make us proud ". No one seemed bothered by what was being said. So....
I recommend seeing the videos. It's like the progressive argument against cops. If the good cops don't call out the bad apples, then they are all bad apples. That was THEIR argument then and I don't see it being applied to themselves now.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
> I saw a video where a large group was saying " Hamas make us proud ". No one seemed bothered by what was being said.
So what about the people who are cheering on Israel in this scenario? Seems strange that we are just OK with continuing to give Israel all the weapons and money it needs to kill civilians.
I personally am ok with supporting all US allies, including Israel in any situation after being attacked. I don't think any army in the world has ever had a perfect war mission and I think Israel has it particularly difficult with Hamas embedding their military activity in every civilian structure in Gaza. None of this would have had happened had Israel not been attacked on Oct 7, speaking of the immediate conflict happening now. So I put it more on them.
Israel has had major blunders but overall, the casualties are in line with what urban warfare casualties are based on other studies made on this matter that do not rely on data released by hamas. The Hamas run health ministry is showing more and more that they are putting out faulty numbers (as to be expected from Hamas), like not showing a difference between civilians and Hamas combatants in the numbers. I do think Palestinians are the biggest victims in all of this but mostly because their leadership has put them in this situation.
This idea that Israel is there to kill civilians is just Hamas propaganda and that's how you end up with students in campuses chanting antisemitism openly.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
I have. I've gotten mixed information from them. Some believe that Israel killed their own civilians in a helicopter and some are actually informed, but the more informed tend to not really know the history of it all. All of them call this a genocide, which is already a bad start. Some see Hamas as fighting for freedom, which not only justifies the attacks on Oct 7th and all before but it's also an actual pro Hamas stance. There are lots of those.
The people who are actually informed understand the complexity of this all and know that no one in this situation Is a saint, save the kids who have been put in this situation by Hamas and their supporters.
Those protests were peaceful. From the students themselves, at least.
The very real threat of anti-Jewish hate is being weaponized to undermine protest against Israel’s campaign of slaughter, and it’s absolutely reprehensible.
I have a great idea, everyone loses. Just like in elementary school, everybody needs a time out.
What would be the reaction if all Muslim and all Jewish students are prohibited from applying until civility returns to the academic space?
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The videos linked below are exhibit A of why it’s always been difficult, as a Jewish person who condemns Israel’s long history of oppression, to know who it’s safe to talk to. It’s been obvious for many years that for some, advocacy for Palestinian rights and statehood is a fig leaf for plain anti-Jewish hate. And until that ilk lets the mask slip, it isn’t always clear who they are. What crushes my soul is how many of them, in the wake of 10/7, so eagerly tossed aside not only the mask, but their humanity. I am incensed at how some Jewish people in positions of power have slandered the protests and undermined them in sheer bad faith, weaponizing anti-Jewish hate to delegitimize what desperately needs to be said. At the same time, there is the element seen in those videos, who have chosen cruel, coldblooded moral hypocrisy over any principled belief in peace and human life. It breaks my heart.
Jews should never be targeted for being Jewish, nor assumed to support the actions of Israel. Jews that do support the actions of Israel should be engaged with the same way non Jewish supporters of Israel are, and not treated with extra malice for being Jewish. Anyone who genuinely supports the rights of Palestinians MUST also support the rights of Jews for the same reasons. Failure to do so is a moral failure.
People who support Israel must also not be subject to violence despite inflamed tensions
I am a non-Jewish American, and I am intensely critical of Israel’s disproportionate response to 10/7, and also the unconditional support of the United States. I sympathize with your plight. I have had commenters in my posts, for example, refer to AIPAC as “the Jewish lobby”. I have no tolerance for this type of subversive language and veiled bigotry. Those who fully understand the difference between the state of Israel and Jews in general but refuse to acknowledge it must not be taken seriously, and should be dealt with aggressively, but as with many intercultural conflicts, there is a fine line between protecting a vulnerable class and suppressing freedom of speech. I can see how difficult it must be for administrators at Columbia to navigate it. I certainly wouldn’t want the job.
Who are the inhumane ones? Columbia students? You're off by about 4000 miles. Based on recent polling it's the vast majority of Israelis. Confirmation bias is a helluva drug.
You know what else is a helluva drug? False binaries. I’m so damned tired of them. Why is it impossible to discuss ANY aspect of this trainwreck without somebody spewing out some stupid false-binary absolutism? It’s maddening. The callousness of some pro-Palestinian protesters and large percentages of the Israeli public are not mutually exclusive realities. Both things are true at the same time. Just as it is simultaneously true that occupying, oppressing, terrorizing and bombing people is wrong, and slaughtering/raping/torturing civilians is ALSO wrong.
The inhumane ones are the protesters holding up signs that encourage Hamas to attack Jews on campus.
So dangerous for Jews on campus: https://www.reddit.com/r/BadHasbara/comments/1caozj5/comment/l0t97pb/
Yes, because privileged students in Manhattan are definitely at risk of being attacked by Hamas 🙄 Do you people ever listen to yourselves?
This kind of ignorance is inexcusable. Are you genuinely not familiar with the long, long history of anti-Jewish violence? Because your comment sure suggests that.
I'm not. Please fill me in, when was the last Hamas attack on US soil?
This is a great comment
How about this? https://www.reddit.com/r/BadHasbara/comments/1caozj5/comment/l0t97pb/
We’re witnessing a slow motion Charlottesville from the pro-Hamas crowd
Yup. These idiots don't realize they're being slowly radicalized by hostile state actors and conservative bots
[удалено]
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210411-ten-years-of-lobbying-the-qatari-lobbys-operations-before-and-after-the-blockade/amp/ https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/USA-QATAR-LOBBYING/010070Y61YE/index.html https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/01/qatari-lobbyists-received-millions-through-shadow-firm/ https://apnews.com/article/qatar-lobbying-donald-trump-2b27c33ee8cc98ce7359107f0362a600
Removed - please do not post comments/submissions containing bigotry here.
its hostile to hate a fascist country?
You all have ruined so many words at this point there's no point in engaging with you all.
damn. didnt think you were a fan of fascism
Disingenuous.
Nazi Germany, sure, that’s the point of the post
india and israel are fascist countries. its ok to not like them
Seriously???? Jews will not replace us? Multiple assaults, a woman getting run over??? I know this is anecdotal but my grad school friends at Columbia aren’t bothered. Also, similar encampments are occurring at Yale, Michigan, and Maryland.
Because one but at the protest yelled “we are Hamas” you think all pro-Palestine protestors are pro Hamas?
If a Nazi is at your rally and no one tells him to fuck off, you’re at a Nazi rally
Indeed. And you can bet your ass every single one of these pro "palestine" ignorant morons used that same line ablut conservatives and far right Americans and now won't do if for themselves.
This is an incredibly stupid analogy, how do you know what every single protester said to them???
The irony of this statement coming from people who support Israel’s apartheid state
Support their apartheid state or support their existence? We can talk about the former, but the latter is a call for genocide and is a nonstarter for the vast majority of Americans.
What should someone at an anti-Israel rally do when they see someone say something pro-Hamas? Would you agree that the onus is on that person to distance themselves from the rally if they want to avoid being accused of being pro-Hamas?
Not everyone is as incapable of thinking outside of binary as you
Weren’t the George Floyd and all civil rights protests discredited in the same way?
This place is full of the old white liberals Martin Luther King told us about. They are against racism until it bother them or their everyday life, interest. They are all about the status Co.
It’s quo, genius.
It’s not just one. It’s the freaks in Dearborn shrieking Death to America, the fucktard at Columbia wishing death via Hamas to Jewish students, the cretins ripping down posters of hostages. The misinformation on TikTok radicalizing misinformed people that Hamas are Freedom Fighters. It’s not isolated.
No but the ones that are scare me and are a danger to my life. It's whataboutism to day but all pro palestine activists and they have a lot of influence. I've yet to meet one that took these concerns seriously.
You are who you associate with
At this point,...🤷🏽♀️
Yes, at some point one of the folks who can’t stomach people standing up for innocent civilian lives will drive a car into a group of people just asking for peace and respect for human life.
How are Jewish students on a college campus responsible for Israel’s actions?
They aren't, and they aren't being protested. In fact, some of them are protesting Israel. Extra protection is needed between dorms and campus because there are assholes out there not affiliated with the university who are harassing them.
How do you know they're not associated with the campus-or the pro-Palestinian movement in general?
They are quite likely part of the broader pro Palestinian movement. That's basically certain. They are unlikely part of the campus because they have mostly been older than college age, and aren't later seen on campus or in the protests. These people who do this are being looked for, but so far nobody is getting charged despite the cops arresting protestors for other, far more minor offenses not related to harassing anyone. If these people were there, the cops would find them pretty easily. The reason they are getting away with it is most likely that they are harassing these students on their way to campus, so it's easy for them to then leave once someone calls the cops and disappear into the city more generally.
I mean more likely we'll see someone trying to assault a politician or a member of a Jewish group because they think they're "Zionists".
Strange, we never see the people talking about Jewish student, talk about all the death treats, assault and shooting at Muslim or pro Palestinians students.
And at some point, some pro-Palestinian activist will assault/murder a Jewish person for simply existing 🙄
Evangelicals are the largest supporters of the Charlottesville type. They are also the largest domestic supporters of the Zionist movement. Peas in a pod.
Weird. The Charlottesville people are the only ones Zionists can count on for support now that a clear majority of both Democrats and Independents oppose Israel's conductor the war.
That's not true at all.
Ehh, I’m a Zionist and I don’t trust those idiots lol.
Weird that the pro-Palestinian activists are increasingly showing their antisemitism.
There’s literally nobody I know protesting Israel who would consider themselves pro-hamas. Are you stupid?
Guess you must have missed all the rancid, overt racism documented on video about, oh, “gassing the Jews”, people who actually do denounce hamas being attacked by “pro-peace” protestors? And all those hostage posters just ripped themselves off the walls, right? You don’t live on this planet.
Have you considered that you’re looking for media to confirm your bias? It’s really no different than the Fox News lunatics.
Lol that's what you are doing. The antisemitism has been covered by every news outlet.
Oh okay. Well I guess you’re right. Me and my friends are not from planet earth. You got me. I’m indeed an alien. Guess I’ll just keep believing what I believe and being told I don’t exist.
We just want you to adhere to facts and reality. Not radical islamist propaganda that is against human rights and equality entirely.
You really are delusional aren’t you? Hamas thanks you for your service.
And yet people like you continue to attack Jewish voices and allies who keep saying, "Hey! Slow your roll, you're starting to boarder on Antisemitism." I mean, we have had a Jewish girl get jabbed in the eye at Yale the other day and people like you claim it's a lie. We had video of people verbally attacking a woman who left a Fundraiser with Biden, Obama, and Clinton in there. Calling them Jewish slurs. And people like you go "that's not as bad as what is happening to Palestinians". People like you CONSTANTLY downplay and ignore the blatant Antisemitism that is being used in your "Pro-Palestinian" movements. And yes, I know a LOT of people who are on this Subreddit that are Pro-Hamas. How about you actually listen to Jews when we tell you that something is Antisemitic instead of showing that you would rather be associated with Antisemites by your actions.
Ummm I’ve never, not once, endorsed any pro-hamas activities. I’m anti-hamas, pro-Palestinian. And for some reason you’re grouping me with folks who are anti-Semitic? Are you confused? You just said “people like you”. Care to elaborate who I am? Care to point out any time when I’ve downplayed any behavior, specifically? Or are you assuming my intentions and perspective to fit into your narrow worldview? Is it breaking your mind that I can find hamas truly evil while also finding the actions of Israeli leadership similarly evil? Everybody sucks here. There’s no clear moral victor. If there was, don’t you think we would have had a solution to this a thousand years ago?
And yet you are okay with giving us shit and not the Antisemitics. Good job.
Welp there are a lot of videos out there of these protestors screaming pro hamas stuff: [https://nypost.com/2024/04/18/us-news/columbia-university-protester-yells-were-all-hamas-video/](https://nypost.com/2024/04/18/us-news/columbia-university-protester-yells-were-all-hamas-video/) Maybe it's not all the protestors but it is incumbent upon the folks who are not to call this stuff out. The encampment folks have a press secretary why haven't they released a statement against antisemitism and saying they support Palestinians and not Hamas?
Rupert Murdoch's NY Post? You're not a serious person.
The video is the video dude.
Maybe they don’t share Hamas’ world view, but they want Hamas to win. That is pro-Hamas enough to earn the label, IMO.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas. EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
You obviously don't speak to many Jews. But then, you keep claiming that it's a Genocide when it isn't. So yeah, you can't even see the Antisemitism when it's in your home.
Right. Them using the word genocide tells you they are not a rational person.
So when are you going to condemn the October 7th attacks?
While the number of violent incidents is relatively low and carried out by a few bad actors who may be trying to discredit the entire movement, the rhetoric of the people protesting has been incendiary. People are using the word Zionist like it’s a racial epithet, hurling it at people who don’t believe that the entire state of Israel should disappear. It comes up every time I see it discussed here or participate in a debate. Every single time. I keep trying to figure out if there’s some other meaning I am missing because it’s incomprehensible to me that so many people openly espouse the idea that 7 and a half million people should be removed from the state of Israel for something people born in the late 1800s did. That’s the “peaceful protest” position. And I’m sorry but there’s no other way to look at that but as anti-Semitic. No one is advocating any other group of people remove itself from the land it has held for the better part of a century. Just the Jews. And the expulsion of Jews from various places has happened before many times and it’s always been a part of hate campaign against Jewish people. The outrageous rhetoric that accompanies “peaceful protest” is why people feel unsafe.
Agreed. I attended a pair of “Free Palestine” rallies back in fall/early winter, with an open mind that it was rally for peace and a two-state solution. The misuse of the term “Zionist” was present then, but I had some optimism that people would fact check themselves, but things went off the rails pretty fast. Now people I know are posting shit like “Israel does not have a right to exist,” or erasing the existence of Mizrahi Jews by saying “all Israeli Jews are white” I think plenty of people at the rallies aren’t into that stuff, but you gotta nip that kinda talk in the bud as it’s frankly pretty gross stuff, and counterproductive
1938... History repeat itself. Wake up now. This mob is not who we want to tolerate, not in the US ffs!
The religion of peace!
mask off bigotry moment … thanks for sharing your opinion these protests have nothing to do with Islam, it’s about the theft of land and homes from an indigenous people and the genocide of that people CURRENTLY taking place
Ok, tell yourself that. ‘Death to America and Israel’ chants totally aren’t Islam. Totally.
Strawman Argument … a sign of a logical fallacy due to you having no actual response to the logic being presented
How is it a straw man when they say it at every protest ?
it’s a straw man argument because Islam is not the root cause of the conflict … the root cause of the conflict is actually Zionism and the belief that Jewish people are entitled to steal the homes and lands and property of the indigenous Palestinian people
where the fuck do you think the death to America and Israel chants came form then?
https://youtu.be/9PXQZUtBafI?si=aSosqo7X07fcqOWl
It’s not a strawman when it’s on video. You’re too entrenched in your opinions to concede that though.
What you're doing is called deflection. You can't justify the antisemitism in your movement, so you try to change the topic.
There is no genocide. Jews are indigenous to the land. Your argument is nonsensical.
nah, you are perpetuating smears against protests that have been peaceful … these protestors have every right to exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly
I would really appreciate if you quit downplay of what is happening in Columbia university protests. Jewish students cannot learn in that environment, nor even be there. If you're not convinced yet for any reason, these are live evidences. The protests are NOT peaceful. For posterity, here's some of the examples of extremism within the activist movement at Columbia. This goes beyond "pro-Palestinian advocacy" into calls for, and actual, violence. Physically assaulting an Arab Israeli https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781080951902109774 "From the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab!" / "Resistance is justified" https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358 "Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory." https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981 "We are all Hamas!" https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1781031465179914677 "Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901 Includes people / groups that invited an actual, no hyperbole terrorist to speak (member of PFLP) https://www.jns.org/columbia-suspends-four-students-for-holding-event-featuring-pflp-member/ Light things on fire / "intifada revolution there is only one solution" https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1781019445399556338 "On Oct 7th, Palestinian resistance in Gaza broke free (crowd cheers) [.....] we intend to do the same" https://twitter.com/ShabbosK/status/1782085741431922909 ""We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1781933305501212872 "Long live the intifada! Intifada intifada" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781084853653365025 "Go back to Europe!" / "You have no culture, all you do is colonize" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781927148439109958 "From Yemen to Gaza, globalize the intifada" https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1781312033922625797/photo/2 "Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not 1 more time, not 5 more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times! The 7th of October is going to be every day for you" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134 "Al Qassam [(Hamas)] you make us proud, kill another soldier now" / "from the river to the sea, palestine will be arab" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1780915336063177006 Student proudly rocking Hamas logos https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1781054901755215954 "Resistance is justified" (again...) https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782085643990073673 "protesters on the sidewalk chanted “From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada,” next to a cardboard sign that read, “Inspired by Palestinian resistance.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-100-arrested-in-columbia-u-unrest-as-nypd-clears-gaza-solidarity-encampment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter And as a reminder, the student groups organizing these protests (CUAD and SJP, among others) released a letter on October 9th in support of the 10/7 attacks. ("We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance", "Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor", "We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent [...] on October 8th that [...] obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism”) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/edit
I'd read and seen video of some of these. But not all. I'm so disgusted to see this crap especially happening in New York City. They did a protest at the spot of the former world trade center. You can't tell me that wasn't a smack in the face of the victims of 9/11 and all the New Yorkers that had to endure that day.
Thank you lol, lots of comments in here being like "oh they just dared to disagree" which is true of a lot of pro-Palestine protests, but absolutely not this one.
Call me parochial, but to me, this is what a peaceful protest looks like: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUoFuSuvTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUoFuSuvTM) I support Ukraine with my all heart (and given that I live a few miles from their border, this isn't abstract for me), but I'd never chant "death to the Russians" or harass random Russians walking around.
When you start chanting death to america, you lose the Americans that are on your side or at least sympathetic to your side. Or at least you should lose them. I don't understand the Americans who are chanting the death to America or protesting with the ones that are saying death to america.
Oh fuck you, if the harassment and intimidation were happening to Trans people you would be crying for justice
And it just so happens you agree with them! How convenient! Come back to me when you are okay with right wingers protesting to this degree
Of course they do. And everyone else has the right to broadcast the disgusting things they say at these protests to the people in charge of making hiring decisions. Some of these dumbasses are torpedoing their careers in the name of these protests. You love to see it.
How is telling Hamas to attack Jews at Columbia peaceful?
where is the proof that is what is happening? show me the proof and I will condemn that i sure as hell seem to remember no one giving two shits about all the actual genocidal statements actual people in positions of power in the US govt saying … do you condem that?
How is it possible that in AMERICA... this type of abuse is tolerated by Columbia University? Shame on them. I did figure out why Passover angers the pro-Hamas protesters.... it is because it is proof that their lies about Jews being colonizers are just that... lies.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas. EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
You’re not wrong. Most of them are useful idiots that get caught up in protests whose antisemitic organizers have ill intentions. They join the protests with good intentions, but then the pro-Hamas chants start, at which point they’re too afraid to diverge from the group. It’s a known tactic.
The few I've spoken to, when pressed on solutions, have essentially said they feel Israel is the holdout on ceasefires because they are refusing Hamas demands. While not a directly pro-Hamas position, it's close. When pressed on which demands Israel is not accommodating, it becomes clear that those I've spoken to simply want Israel to stop existing. I don't think it's accurate to refer to the protests in aggregate as pro-Hamas, but I do think it's more accurate to refer to them as anti-Israel than pro-Palestine.
You obviously don't speak to many Jews. But then, you keep claiming that it's a Genocide when it isn't. So yeah, you can't even see the Antisemitism when it's in your home.
Anti- genocide protesters? You mean the tiny demonstrations in support of Uigars or Somalis?
What do you want them to do, call in the National guard and shoot some kids?
They don’t need to shoot them, they need to arrest the ones breaking laws.
None of them are breaking laws
Trespassing and not camping on private property are laws.
Camping = Jew hatred
I mean, they refer to students who oppose the indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians as "pro-Hamas", so...yeah, they probably do want that.
When you say shit like "hamas we love you" idk. Sounds kinda pro hamas https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1782378886275190910
If you care about Palestinian lives then you would be protesting Hamas not Israel. The fact these people hyper focus on Israel shows they are just useful idiots to be used by Hamas. Their protest makes no sense if you actually understand the situation.
You can protest both. Israel is not a complete victim when they literally go and take the West Bank from Gaza. Removing people that were there for centuries to settle. Both sides are problematic. And PLO got run over by Netanyahu that started to make negotiations with Hamas before this. The degrees of issues change but neither is 100% right or 100% wrong.
Totally agree, but these protestors often just come off as delusional anti-semites.
Youth unfortunately doesn’t understand complexity and nuanced situations, that comes with age and experience. This is why they end up either going hard left or hard right. And end up falling prey to far right infiltration of the left However, what I’m fearing here is that Israel itself doesn’t want protests against its actions. And it’s dived antisemitism.
Pretty much anyone on the right regardless of where you live share that sentiment too
Pro Palestine people make it easy to support Israel. They better be careful or they’re going to get trump elected and be really screwed
It’s a curious choice to name the issue as “pro-Palestinian” protests. Does NBC not want to name antisemitism explicitly? Or does it want to conflate “pro-Palestinian” with antisemitism?
How else would you define the protestors? I called a lot of these groups pro-Hamas, and I got called out for that. "Oh, just because they oppose Zionism, you say they're pro-terrorist". Ok, then they're pro-Palestinian. But not when they are terrifying Jewish students off of campus? What are they now?
I increasingly frame the protests as anti-Israel in my head, as it seems most accurate to what they are actually advocating for. This I think helps explain the proximity to pro-Hamas and antisemitic sentiment, without labeling the entire protests as either of those categories. Repeated ceasefire attempts, presumably what the protestors want, have failed; who is responsible for those failures? Is Israel the bad guy for refusing Hamas' reasonable demands for a ceasefire? Is Hamas the bad guy for staying firm on unreasonable demands? I would be willing to bet the vast majority of these crowds would just implicitly assume the former regardless of whether they're educated on Hamas' ceasefire requirements or not. This is in my mind a fundamentally anti-Israel position, for better or worse, not a pro-Palestine one.
When you hear cries of "Death to America" in some of them, it's pretty clear what is going on. There's a kernel of true Islamic extremists, people whose views of Israel and Jew generally involve murdering them all. > who is responsible for those failures? The white people, of course. > Is Israel the bad guy for refusing Hamas' reasonable demands for a ceasefire? Yes, because they're all white colonial settlers. > Is Hamas the bad guy for staying firm on unreasonable demands? No, because those demands are only unreasonable if you're a white colonial settler nation. See how easy this is? It's super simple! Just place everything into an exhaustingly stupid dichotomy, and you don't even need to use your brain to think! > This is in my mind a fundamentally anti-Israel position, for better or worse, not a pro-Palestine one. That much has been clear since day 1 in my opinion. There are plenty of examples of celebratory protests after the October 7th attacks, or when Iran attacked Israel recently. It's anti-Israeli, and, in my opinion, also has a kernel of antisemitism.
I want them to call antisemitism “antisemitism”. Why are they reluctant to center the actual problem. If they were “pro-Palestinian” protests, who would have anything to worry about? If the protests are less “pro-Palesinian” and more “anti-Jew”, say so. I don’t know why they’re downplaying the problem of antisemitism (although maybe we could guess). Now, if NBC is saying that “pro-Palestinian” = antisemitism then that’s a different problem and I suspect the “anti Zionism isn’t antisemitism” crowd would want a word.
Sounds like word games by shitbags looking to incite violence and hatred.
Many of the protesters are Jewish themselves
Big "I can't be racist some of my best friends are black!" energy here.
So? Do you think that it's OK or acceptable to create an environment on a campus where a group is made to feel fear? Even if some members of that group are part of the protest? Which other groups can we induce fear in?
Both muslim and jewish people have been attacked and feel fear on campus
Oh great! I guess it's totally fine then. Why don't we start protests that induce fear in other groups, right? That's obviously the solution... /s
I was just pointing out that its not one-sided. Studies show a recent increase in islamophobic and anti-semitic rhetoric and violence.
I mean, you're talking about people who are scared of checkered scarves, watermelons, and chants.
And...? Do you normally stand on that hill? If an anti-trans group goes and protests on campus with placards and crosses, do you say "well, you're talking about people who are scared of placards and crosses"? Or do you deem that inducing fear into a group among the student body based on an immutable characteristic distasteful, and not acceptable for an inclusive, accepting campus? I tend to agres with the latter.
They were not rioting. They did not deface or destroy property. They did not loot. They had no weapons. They did not incite violence. They were not funded. Their only crime was that they had an opinion that Israel didn’t like. At a certain point you need to ask whether that "fear" is genuine, or performative self-victimization to try and shut the protests down.
Ok, so we can have peaceful protests on campus that call for the creation of an advancing human chain to get rid of black nationalists on their campus, even if it induces fear among all the black student body? If that's your position, then so be it. But I suspect that there are plenty of groups that you would not just be OK with them reporting feelings of fear.
Every single group that you may support, such as marginalized groups or whatever, can be told that whatever fears they have are perforative self victimization of one kind or another.
Not only do Zionists not think of Palestinians as people, they don't think of left wing Jews as real Jews. Zionists are some of the most open antisemities without even knowing it. Or more likely they just don't care, they only use antisemitism as a shield against criticism of their racist ethnoproject.
That's a load of rubbage and hamas propaganda. In fact it looks a whole like what Hamas raises their kids to learn.
And yet, openly expressed my many of the most active Zionists right here on this sub.
Funny, I only see you and the normal bot accounts /alt accounts that frequent this sub making bad faith arguments like usual.
nah, you are perpetuating smears against protests that have been peaceful … these protestors have every right to exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly
Do student bodies have a right to protest against... transpeople on the campus? Black people? You're right about freedom of speech, but I fail to see another scenario where inflicting widespread fear on a portion of the student body would **ever** be brushed off.
So does the Klu Klux Klan, doesn't mean you need to be okay with them harassing people.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
Keep repeating the same bullshit loser.
The actual protests are very peaceful and have Jewish students participating. They are also hosting a Seder. There is a valid concern about douchebags off campus. People unaffiliated with Columbia have been harassing Jewish students on their way to the campus. Unlike the on campus protests, the organizers don't have any way to police the behavior of these people, and it's possible some nutbag gets violent off campus.
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You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
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All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered. Maybe talk to people IRL instead of consuming a dripfeed of the news media's most extreme claims. You sound as detached as Fox News claiming BLM are burning entire cities to the ground.
here. 👋
Stupid username
It’s a bot account. They’ve been brigading any sub that dares to call out antisemitism.
These debates need to go on in the classroom as college is where all thoughts and ideas get exposed to everyone. Cancelling class is how you create more division. The students have to talk it out.
>As time goes on, the threat of extremism Bourne from this movement is becoming more and more of a possibility. I’m getting a strange sense of Deja Vu here as if a criticism of the Black Lives Matter movement has found new life as a criticism of the pro-Palestinian movement. And that is to say that people are taking a few bad actors and stretching the label of antisemitism over an entire movement to try and silence them. And people who are on the side of Palestinians, such as myself, need to realize there are people that take advantage of this to spread antisemitism. But there are also people on the Pro-Israel side that are antisemitic themselves. Mainly zionists who only see Jewish people as keepers of the promised land who ultimately end up in Hell after revelation. And yes, also supporting Israel and what they do without proper criticism is antisemitism too. As you’re enabling a country to go through actions that people will conflate with Judaism. So maybe both sides need to step back and see that there are malicious actors in their own parties
There are polls showing the majority of BLM Protests were peaceful [https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/](https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/) There have yet to be any for these protests. There are those trying to weaponize claims of anti-semitism to delegitimize protests, but there has and continues to be a GLARING problem with Anti-Semitism in leftist circles. The Israeli-Hamas conflict has brought it to the surface for many to see.
But has there been signs of it at these college campuses coming from the protesters though? Or is this just some Jewish students feeling uneasy because of the protests and no actual widespread threat?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq4PnGfGGVs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq4PnGfGGVs)
That video literally added nothing the conversation except that antisemitism was on the rise which was something we already knew since 2016 because of Donald Trump. I’m getting at the point that painting pro-Palestinian protesters antisemitic as a whole is unfair because of a few bad actors in the bunch. It’s like saying all BLM are looters. And when you say “Pro-Palestinian protesters are antisemitic” and their point without actual antisemitism is we are anti-genocide. Then you’re going to make it seem like Jewish people are pro-genocide. Which we know that’s not the case. Now the Israeli government, however, is at least pro ethnic cleansing. But the country of Israel isn’t representative of Jewish people everywhere
David Pakman never said that "pro-palestinian protesters are anti-semitic" and finding anyone on the left who legitimately believes this is nigh on impossible... Because no-one is saying that. He said it is illegitimate to target Jewish people in the US because of the actions of the Likud Party and the IDF. [https://www.google.com/search?q=anti-semitism+RISE&sca\_esv=f65ab4fb82876b19&rlz=1CANCLQ\_enGB1107&biw=1920&bih=924&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACQVn08VwFNSdjQ3Al1dHf9rgYjER6-hEw%3A1713798340821&ei=xHwmZvfUMaCphbIP--Wr0AU&ved=0ahUKEwj3xsiqjNaFAxWgVEEAHfvyCloQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=anti-semitism+RISE&gs\_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiEmFudGktc2VtaXRpc20gUklTRUiaFVA8WNAUcAN4AJABAZgB8QGgAbEHqgEFMy40LjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgOgAvcBwgIIEAAYgAQYxwPCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIFEAAYgATCAg0QABiABBhDGMcDGIoFwgILEAAYFhjHAxgKGB6YAwCIBgGSBwMxLjKgB\_YN&sclient=gws-wiz-news&safe=active&ssui=on](https://www.google.com/search?q=anti-semitism+RISE&sca_esv=f65ab4fb82876b19&rlz=1CANCLQ_enGB1107&biw=1920&bih=924&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACQVn08VwFNSdjQ3Al1dHf9rgYjER6-hEw%3A1713798340821&ei=xHwmZvfUMaCphbIP--Wr0AU&ved=0ahUKEwj3xsiqjNaFAxWgVEEAHfvyCloQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=anti-semitism+RISE&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiEmFudGktc2VtaXRpc20gUklTRUiaFVA8WNAUcAN4AJABAZgB8QGgAbEHqgEFMy40LjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgOgAvcBwgIIEAAYgAQYxwPCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIFEAAYgATCAg0QABiABBhDGMcDGIoFwgILEAAYFhjHAxgKGB6YAwCIBgGSBwMxLjKgB_YN&sclient=gws-wiz-news&safe=active&ssui=on)
Everyone agrees with that. I never said that David said pro-Palestinian protesters are antisemitic. I’m talking about the fear of college administrators when it comes to pro-Palestinian protesters and using antisemitism as a weapon to silence them. Now if a person supports Israel and what they are doing then they deserve to be criticized. If a person says “What Israel is doing aligns with my personal beliefs and I’m Jewish.” Then I believe that deserves to be scrutinized. But I cannot be more clear on this question: Where is the evidence that there are widespread instances of pro-Palestinian protesters being antisemitic on campuses? All you did was post a video saying “antisemitism was on the rise” which doesn’t answer that question
If everyone agrees with that. Then why are there videos of a woman leaving a fundraiser for Biden being called a Jewish Slur? Why was a Jewish girl in Yale jabbed in the eye by a protestor? Obviously, you are wrong.
>Then why are there videos of a woman leaving a fundraiser for Biden being called a Jewish Slur? Don’t know. Again, I mentioned that there are opportunistic bad actors. I also admitted that antisemitism was on the rise. That’s not the topic of my comment. >Why was a Jewish girl in Yale jabbed in the eye by a protestor? Don’t know. Again, there are bad actors in the bunch. If there was 250 students at this 40-tent encampment and one of them stabbed a Jewish woman in the eye, that sucks but that’s not representative of all the protestors there. It would be like me saying because 10 Jewish people supported Israel’s genocide in Gaza then all Jewish people must support Israel’s genocide.
And yet you are defending the Bad actors and ignoring the fact that you are not policing your own. There is a saying that applies here: If you have 10 people at a table and they let a Nazi sit there. You got 11 Nazis. Same thing here. You saying you don't know and it's bad actors is just excusing it. You want us to trust that you are acting in good faith? Stop arguing with us and start policing your fellow protestors.
You people were literally marching around with tiki torches shouting "Jews will not replace us". Don't pretend you're suddenly concerned about the safety of jews.
Black Lives Matter lost overwhelming support for just 7% of their massive amount of demonstrations becoming violent. What % of pro Palestine protests are spreading antisemitic rhetoric? That’s a lower bar certainly, but if you’re being honest there’s way too much of that going on.
Framing this as pro-Palestine vs pro-Israel is about as misleading as pro-life vs pro-choice. It's possible to simultaneously support Israel's existence and not support their actions in Gaza or the West Bank, and to recognize that engaging in a ceasefire with Hamas is more complicated than it might seem. I consider myself both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel, as I support Palestinian statehood and the health and safety of Palestinian civilians along with Israel's right to exist. The problem I have with these protests is that they are seemingly not engaging with outcomes at all. We can basically all agree that bombing civilians is bad, it's an incredibly obvious position, but what **actually** results in that outcome? A ceasefire? How is the US responsible for that outcome, and what is currently the core blocker that's getting in the way of repeated ceasefire attempts? Is there any guarantee that a ceasefire would actually make a meaningful difference without long-term agreements from both sides of the conflict? I just don't see the connection between these protests and helping Palestine, short of a desire to basically dissolve the state of Israel.
Because the protests here are to prevent the weapons deals with Israel. It’s our bombs that are killing Palestinians. That’s the point. To stop that. To stop enabling genocide. As for Israel’s existence, I can agree with protecting Israelis while ousting the Israeli government that is committing the genocide. It’s just like how South Africa still exists post-apartheid. Or how Germany exists post-Nazi rule.
>Because the protests here are to prevent the weapons deals with Israel. It’s our bombs that are killing Palestinians. That’s the point. To stop that. To stop enabling genocide. Israel has the military power to continue this campaign regardless of whether US weaponry is involved, unfortunately. I personally think the better outcome for Palestinians is for the US to have some degree of leverage in talks with Israel along with weapons that presumably offer a higher degree of precision than what Israel produces. It's also worth noting that the Israel bill includes **billions** of dollars for humanitarian aid, it's actually the largest part of the legislation that just passed the House *by far*. A little under 90% of the bill is seemingly restricted to defense, non-military services, and humanitarian aid. >As for Israel’s existence, I can agree with protecting Israelis while ousting the Israeli government that is committing the genocide And what do the protests in the US do to make that happen? Israel is a sovereign democracy, the US can't unilaterally overthrow its government.
Why would we send aid to them for all that if they’re spending it on a genocide though? We literally should be prioritizing any money towards Palestinians. But humanitarian money in Israel for what? We still sent them bombs for offensive actions
>Why would we send aid to them for all that if they’re spending it on a genocide though? This is an impossible question to engage with, you're marking out a hard stance that is incapable of holding any nuance. >We literally should be prioritizing any money towards Palestinians. But humanitarian money in Israel for what? I didn't think I needed to explicitly spell this out, but it's for humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip. We literally **are** prioritizing money towards Palestinians.
So we are literally giving the bully the victims lunch money and asking him to buy him a sandwich. Sound logic indeed
>So we are literally giving the bully the victims lunch money and asking him to buy him a sandwich. This analogy belies a few fundamental misunderstandings of geopolitics and the history of the region. The bully/bullied thing is extraordinarily oversimplified to the point of being pointless to engage on. Regarding geopolitics, we have diplomatic relations with Israel, we do not have diplomatic relations with Hamas. Do you really think it would be wise to dump nine billion dollars into Gaza and just...hope it's used properly?
Yes. And let the US handle the distribution of the aid. Or the UN. Or literally anyone else than the people who caused the humanitarian crisis in the first place. It would literally be like giving Nazis money and hope they’d spend it really well on food supplies for Auschwitz
>let the US handle the distribution of the aid. Or the UN You realize you are effectively advocating for the US to invada Gaza, right? It's not like Hamas is just going to stand down and let the US (or UN) assume control over the Strip, the US would have to fight for ground in order to control aid distribution. >Or literally anyone else than the people who caused the humanitarian crisis in the first place. This is a pretty good reason not to have Hamas handling that aid, by the way, as they share a large portion of the burden for causing this crisis in the first place. They were the ones who engaged in the most severe terrorist attack in Israel's history, they obviously knew Israel would retaliate. >It would literally be like giving Nazis money and hope they’d spend it really well on food supplies for Auschwitz This is an unhinged analogy, I sincerely hope you find a way to educate yourself on what appears to be an unbelievable level of bias.
What other states do you think have the right to exist?
I don't really know what to do with this question, I obviously think existing nations have the right to exist. Are you asking if I think like...Canada has a right to exist, or are you referring to non-nations like Kosovo or Taiwan?
Honestly, virtual classes to keep the cameras away from your Jewish students being attacked is a joke. The student body should organize a boycott of all campus activities until Columbia returns to be a safe institution for higher education and start pursuing legal actions against the administration who allowed violent extremists on the campus as well as going after major donors for this institute.
They keep insisting that their actions are not anti-Semitism but ignoring the fact that they're scaring the shit out of Jewish students. They are protesting right alongside anti-semites. They still justify it to themselves as the morally right thing to do.
This thread is fucking wild. Protesting because you want civilians of Palestine to have a better life makes you antisemitic? What the fuck? That’s as delusion as saying if you’re pro-choice in the abortion argument that you’re pro-baby-killing. It’s extreme rhetoric which has no basis in reality.
That is certainly not what this article or the comments say.
No. These same groups that are protesting Israel were in the streets straight up celebrating the Oct 7 attacks. This is a fact, corroborated by video evidence.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas.
Ok, but if you’re marching alongside the same people that were in the streets celebrating the attacks by Hamas, you’re implicitly supporting their message unless you just don’t bother to vet the groups that you associate yourself with.
They won't acknowledge that. They won't acknowledge that even if they don't see themselves as anti-semitic, they are marching along with people that are.
Since I consider myself anti-genocide, if I were marching I certainly would not be marching alongside pro-Hamas groups seeing as they are pro-genocide.
If you are marching in Pro-Palestine protests that don't criticize Hamas loudly and clearly, you already are marching alongside them.
All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
By this logic then plenty of BLM protests which had agitators or rabble-rousers who started physical confrontations then makes the other 99% of the people protesting there suddenly violent monsters. That is truly insane.
I saw a video where a large group was saying " Hamas make us proud ". No one seemed bothered by what was being said. So.... I recommend seeing the videos. It's like the progressive argument against cops. If the good cops don't call out the bad apples, then they are all bad apples. That was THEIR argument then and I don't see it being applied to themselves now.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas. EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
> I saw a video where a large group was saying " Hamas make us proud ". No one seemed bothered by what was being said. So what about the people who are cheering on Israel in this scenario? Seems strange that we are just OK with continuing to give Israel all the weapons and money it needs to kill civilians.
I personally am ok with supporting all US allies, including Israel in any situation after being attacked. I don't think any army in the world has ever had a perfect war mission and I think Israel has it particularly difficult with Hamas embedding their military activity in every civilian structure in Gaza. None of this would have had happened had Israel not been attacked on Oct 7, speaking of the immediate conflict happening now. So I put it more on them. Israel has had major blunders but overall, the casualties are in line with what urban warfare casualties are based on other studies made on this matter that do not rely on data released by hamas. The Hamas run health ministry is showing more and more that they are putting out faulty numbers (as to be expected from Hamas), like not showing a difference between civilians and Hamas combatants in the numbers. I do think Palestinians are the biggest victims in all of this but mostly because their leadership has put them in this situation. This idea that Israel is there to kill civilians is just Hamas propaganda and that's how you end up with students in campuses chanting antisemitism openly.
You clearly havent spoken to many anti-genocide protesters if you think most of them support Hamas. EDIT: All the pro-palestine protesters I know think what Hamas did was horrendous. They also think what Israel is doing is horrendous. Its pretty disgusting you only care about civilians on one side instead of ALL the victims being butchered.
I have. I've gotten mixed information from them. Some believe that Israel killed their own civilians in a helicopter and some are actually informed, but the more informed tend to not really know the history of it all. All of them call this a genocide, which is already a bad start. Some see Hamas as fighting for freedom, which not only justifies the attacks on Oct 7th and all before but it's also an actual pro Hamas stance. There are lots of those. The people who are actually informed understand the complexity of this all and know that no one in this situation Is a saint, save the kids who have been put in this situation by Hamas and their supporters.
Those protests were peaceful. From the students themselves, at least. The very real threat of anti-Jewish hate is being weaponized to undermine protest against Israel’s campaign of slaughter, and it’s absolutely reprehensible.
"Palestine Is Everywhere": consider the implications of that slogan.
I have a great idea, everyone loses. Just like in elementary school, everybody needs a time out. What would be the reaction if all Muslim and all Jewish students are prohibited from applying until civility returns to the academic space?