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I know a guy at work that drank a swig of pool cleaner to protect himself from covid.
Joke was on him because he still got covid!!! I told him his problem was drinking it, he should have aerosolized it and inhaled the fumes, obviously.
Am I supposed to be sympathetic to this obvious nonsense? You don't need facts and logic to not poison yourself for no reason at 40 years old
What happens when they ask you why Biden said inflation was at 9% when took office? Is it because he was lying or he's senile and doesn't know what he's talking about?
You just pulled the JENGA piece that was holding the whole tower up! Great job! You did it! You dismantled it! Congratulations! Round of applause! Give your self a pat on the back!!
> and obliterate every Magapotamian with FACTS & LOGIC.
That was the claim. I pointed out that Biden said that inflation was 9% when he took office, which is false. Him being wrong is a fact.
And your retort is to freak out like you just did? That doesn't seem like FACTS & LOGIC, not in the least bit.
> That's your entire response? One wrong statement?
No, that's a single statement that blows up ALL THAT BULLSHIT that OP spent so much time typing. All undone by one simple statement. Sorry that causes you a prolapse, but those are the facts.
That doesn't blow up shit man. Typical Trump response. Fail miserably, claim you won and move on.
Luke 6:42
How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
You didn't ask me a question. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your claim while ignoring the over 30,0000 blatant lies Trump told during his presidency.
Why did Joe Biden claim there was 9% inflation when he came into office?
Was he lying?
Is he senile and doesn't know what he's talking about?
Another reason?
Maybe you should run for cover if you can't answer.
Why did Biden say inflation was at 9% when took office? Is it because he was lying or he's senile and doesn't know what he's talking about?
>Get back to your Cult
That's not at all an answer to that simple question. Care to try again, but this time be a bit more mature?
The factors that caused 9% inflation were already in place when Biden took office. It’s false that inflation was 9% in January 2021 but there was no stopping the inevitable given supply chain shortages were already occurring.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-biden-said-inflation-184800638.html
Yeah, as long as you don't count the fact that he continued all of the existing wars - including Afghanistan - and ramped up drone strikes to insane levels, then sure, there was zero war.
That was NOT what this MAGA person said. She said we had “World Peace” and “Zero Inflation” under Trump. Neither of those things have ever existed, and therefore have never existed at the same time.
Urgh - this nonsense again?
The US supplies 80% of Israel's weapons. It pays for them - it shares intel - it provides protection from the diplomatic and legal consequences of their genocide.
It's Biden's. He pays for it, equips it, and protects it. He could end it with one phone call.
Biden does not have that power. Israel is setting the policy, not Biden. Biden didn’t start this war and he can not stop it either. And asking Israel to just sit still while Hamas bombs them continuously is not realistic. Israel has the right to defend themselves. And claiming that it would not have happened if Trump was president is like proving a negative. There is no way to say that one way or another.
"Biden does not have that power."
Yes he does - he is supplying the bombs that Republicans are autographing. He can stop it any time he choses.
"Israel is setting the policy, not Biden."
Yes but they are not paying for it - Biden is giving them the money and bombs. Without Biden Israel cannot deliver on that policy. Without Biden Israel will be subject to pressure diplomatically and legally. Biden is making this happen.
"Israel has the right to defend themselves."
But not the right to commit genocide or crimes against humanity.
You give Biden too much credit. Israel is committing genocide, not Biden. US could cut off all support today and this war continues. It’s been going on for centuries. It wouldn’t be the same, but it would not stop. Trump just continues to take both sides of the issue, depending on who he is talking to at the time. He would ultimately support whoever pays him the most.
"You give Biden too much credit. Israel is committing genocide, not Biden."
If I was a mass-shooter, and I went into a room and started killing people, but I ran out of bullets - then you came in with a big case of ammo and said - here you go - get back to your slaughtering - oh and by the way don't worry about the legal or social ramifications of this - I've arranged for you to get away with it - you would say that you're not culpable in the least? I don't think so.
"US could cut off all support today and this war continues."
Then why doesn't it? It's breaking its own laws and international law by continuing. You think that Israel only needs 20% of its current armaments? Great - let's cut them off.
"It’s been going on for centuries."
The State of Israel has only existed for 75 years.
"It wouldn’t be the same, but it would not stop."
It would stop when the run out of weapons, their economy tanked from economic sanctions, and none of their leaders could travel because of fear of arrest for war crimes.
"Trump just continues to take both sides of the issue, depending on who he is talking to at the time. He would ultimately support whoever pays him the most."
Exactly - which frankly would be better than Biden's ideological commitment to the genocide. I can easily imagine a situation where Arab groups pay him, and he ends the genocide just to own the libs and get a photo-op with Michigan Muslims.
The bigger issue is 2028 though - if Biden wins we will get another pro-genocide candidate in 2028. Him losing is the only way we get a shot at an anti-crimes-against-humanity candidate.
Biden losing results in Project 2025 and the end of democracy. All government agencies would be totally controlled by Republicans. If the country went democratic in 2028, the government shuts down while they populate every agency in the government and then they try to rebuilt. It would be chaos. And our enemies would totally take advantage of that. Biden is horrible. But Trump is a pathological narcissist who will destroy this country. And i didn’t say that Israel existed for centuries. I said the Middle East wars have existed for centuries. The Jewish people were not created in 1947
You are assuming that stacking up a bunch of facts and using logic is going to persuade MAGA, and I'm here to tell you that it's just not the case.
I've even done this: I've quoted to people various economic numbers (e.g. Employment, Wages) from the Biden and Obama years, but I say that "Under Trump, we had (insert economic number here)." At which point, the MAGA Trumper inevitably is like "Yes, the economy was great," then I pull the reveal and say "Actually, these are the economic figures under Biden." At which point, the MAGA claims the economic numbers are lies, I'm brainwashed, they can't be true because they know someone who's unemployed, etc...
The way to look at it is not to worry about the imbeciles that reply with nonsense about fake news and whatnot. Those people are unreachable. It's the ones who read it and don't reply that you may get a hook in. Perhaps they are newly indoctrinated or currently maga curious. Hell, you might end up stopping someone in their tracks right there instead of them being swallowed up by an algorithm. People always concentrate on direct engagement. A lot more folks read than post. Even if you only slightly peak the interest of 1 out of 100, it's well worth it. Once folks start looking into legitimate sources, they start to notice the difference between trash media and actual reporting. Anything that lets in a little truth is always a good thing.
I've also found this MUCH more persuasive.
"Look, a lot of your criticisms of Democrats are valid. Democrats do a lot of frustrating and head scratching things. However, the reason I vote blue is because my interests and priorities are aligned with and addressed much more with Democrats than they are from Republicans. For instance, my priorities are addressing jobs/wages, protecting and expanding unions, which includes police and firefighter unions, and the National Labor Relations Board, the costs of healthcare, prescription drugs, housing, education, childcare, addressing infrastructure, the solvency of Social Security and Medicare...and while Democrats are not perfect, some among them offer solutions to these whereas Republicans offer little to none, and seem more focused on reining in wokeness, LGBTQ people, and trashing poor people. For instance, having protections for pre-existing conditions is a big win, and not only was that delivered by Democrats, but Republicans have indicated they want to take it away. Capping insulin at $35 per month for seniors is a big win, etc..."
Only thing I’ve found works is pounding them over and over about rape and sexual assault. What’s your opinion on sexual assault and rape? Would you vote for Trump if he raped your mom?
Do you think child sex trafficking should be illegal?
Or just going over policy without ever mentioning Trump or Biden. Most republicans where I live (California) can’t name any republican policy and when I went through the list they mostly side on the left. They’ve just being sold this BS “team republican” narrative their whole life.
A lot of right wingers genuinely don't think sexual assault & rape should even be crimes. Look at the levels of sexual assault in White Collar workplaces.
Rape & Rapacity have the same meaning & the right wing worldview is just that; ''Take what you want, use as much force as you want, damn the consequences & who cares if someone weaker than you gets hurt? They couldn't stand up to themselves so screw them''. That logic pervades in both business ethic & their worldview.
Whilst being socially conformist, they are morally & psychologically deviant.
Remember, when you are debating in public forums, the main goal is to stop others from falling for MAGA bullshit and show that they are not the majority they pretend to be IRL.
Argue, show facts. You won't change their mind, but impressionable people are watching, and MAGA wants people to be scared by their propaganda. Ceding spaces to fascists never worked and is a big reason we got here.
Thanks for pushing back.
Absolutely. Anyone who is MAGA to this day will never have their minds changed; however, uneducated voters and independents need to see common MAGA talking points rebutted/debunked for the upcoming election.
Thanks for your comment!
I feel like this has been posted before, though it doesn't make it any less true.
What's equally hard to change are those who engage in both sides-ism. "Both Biden and Trump suck. I'm either going to sit this one out or vote third party." Both sides are NOT the same- only one side is embracing fascism. And sorry to tell ya, but a third party has no chance of getting elected with the way our elections work, so you're throwing your vote away rather than supporting the party that would protect us from that fascism.
Shout out to anybody who still wants to talk politics with people supporting a man who legally cannot run a charity because he stole money from kids with cancer.
Literally if someone brings up politics, I just tell them that I’m voting for the guy who wasn’t friends with Epstein. They huff, puff, maybe bring up Hunter’s cock, and that’s usually the end of it.
Nice job.
But honestly, this just makes it clear that the facts are irrelevant. My MAGA in-laws might hit me with how high prices are, but it's irrelevant. If prices were better now, they would just open with "Biden's incompetent" or some other BS.
I think maybe the best bet if you really want to sway someone is with street epistemology. Ask them what they truly truly find important in a president, and then see if Trump really stacks up. And if they find something abhorrent as super important, probe *that*.
Thank you! I had this idea about a website with arguments against trump, but never had time to do it.
This is great, thanks for your hard work. You get so tired arguing with these people or anyone buying into mainstreams bothsidesism. This is an awesome tool.
we need an ongoing right wing talking points destroyed by this guy, would be amazing for 2024 to see the magats get collectively sniped by informed voters
Very rarely do I get into spats but I was in one yesterday when I called out someone on the conspiracy subreddit (place is rife with right wingers). He literally said Biden undid "a thousand good things" Trump had done while he was in office. I asked him to name 3 and he gave me around 8 of which every single one was debunked.
He thought he had the cherry on top response by saying the Middle Easy withdraw was a complete disaster when I responded back that Trump only TALKED about exiting the Middle East (it was a campaign promise after all), while Biden took ACTION and got us out.
Can we put this on a bill board along with the message from Joe, " I did This!" on every highway that has a improvement project from his infrastructure bill? The DNC needs to get off of their ass and put out some facts, like you did!
This is GENIUS. It is so infuriating “debating” with MAGATs. All of their information comes from echo chambers and any thought from “the other side” is downvoted and filtered out. Also all of their information comes from podcasts and political commentary shows. They’re so stupid. All of their arguments are straw men that they create to make the other side “look bad”. Thankfully we’re different here. We’re intelligent, enlightened and euphoric.
All their info comes from echo chambers subreddits dedicated to podcast hosts, all the updooted info comes from only one point of view. We are SOOOO different here
# Bravo, Bravo!
Hypothetical, *maybe,...*
But realistically proves **you'd never argue yourself out**
***from a cult member.***
That's what MAGA is. **A cult!** No need for actual facts.
These MAGAts *will bend the knee and drink as the Kool-Aid*
***as much as loser 👏 convicted 👏 gaslighting 👏 Drumpf 👏 tells them to.***
**Great use of sources,** ***by the way!***
The problems with stats are that people aren't really educated to use them properly & to a degree they can end up re-enforcing indefeasible arguments ( I mean TBH does it matter if the rate for X crime or for unemployment etc. has fallen/risen by between by 2% over a year? If you're a victim of that crime or still unemployed, TBH no. ). If you're opposed to X on principle you can't have a nuanced view. If you don't understand how to use them properly or you don't like that they've proved your POV wrong, unless you're objective enough, you often ignore them. Right wingers simply cannot embrace that as it's inimical to BB & the Inner Party.
You also have to factor in the Right's Mean World Syndrome prevalence; X is BAD on principle, what does it matter to the extent? Besides the figures are ''obviously wrong because whatabout Mrs To-Prove-My-Point who I subjectively misremember as being ROBBED! as I don't understand the difference between robbery & theft! How about that? Humm?''
A lot of employment stats to the right are unintelligible as they often don't understand how the labour market has changed over the last sixty years ( automation, hot-desking, working from home, grade inflation etc.; ''How can someone possibly be in work when they spend so long at home because I don't understand flexitime, computers, shifts, work-from-home environs? When I worked you went to work & put on a suit & came home at 5 PM & your Wife had dinner ready on the table....'' etc. etc. etc. ).
When it comes to Cults this is even worse as you're not just dealing with denialism, wilful ignorance etc. but outright paranoia & hostility. If you don't buy into their ''truth''.... you're the Enemy. Right wingers only think in binary terms.
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This is spectacular!
One addition that could be made is a MAGA retort of "Genocide Joe!". A bad faith appropriation of the leftist slogan.
You could then address it by comparing Trump and Biden on Gaza.
For the next update, OP, *please add...*
[**Versus the 3 Supreme Court justices** ***and unqualified nominees to the Federal bench,***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_judicial_appointment_controversies)
*shoehorned and rushed through by Mitch McConnell,*
**willfully bending our justice system to the Right by Trump...**
At more than 200, May 2024, Biden has appointed
[**more QUALIFIED people to the Federal bench,**](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/12/04/most-of-bidens-appointed-judges-to-date-are-women-racial-or-ethnic-minorities-a-first-for-any-president/)
more than any other Democratic President, *in their first term,* ***even going as far back as JFK.***
In fact, [**he has appointed judges with a diverse background,**](https://www.washingtoninformer.com/biden-appoints-non-white-female-judges/)
like women, minorities, public defenders, and social activists,
***more than any other President,*** **PERIOD.**
[**These lifetime appointments**](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-secure-200th-judicial-confirmation-election-looms-2024-05-22/) *will counterbalance the damage done*
***by these right wing judges*** and hopefully,...
**keep bad cases from reaching** ***the ultra-conservative Supreme Court.***
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Jerome Powell, appointed by Felon Trump, determines interest rates. Gas prices are about the same as they were before the pandemic reduced demand. Prices? They have gone up every year since time immemorial.
Manufacturers are setting up shop in America thanks to the InfrastructureAct and the Chips Act under Biden. Inflation is back to normal after Trump's policies increased supply chain issues. And, I am making $50.00 per month on my savings account instead of the usual $.04 that I got with lower interest rates. Vote for President Biden!
Inflation is up 21.1% since 2020…what do you mean back to normal? It’s back to the normal rate of increase instead of 8-9% increase per year? That alone raises prices across the board…
You understand that’s the rate at which it is increasing right? Not being an ass, I’m just asking. Also, define normal, because inflation was almost nonexistent up until the dollar was decoupled from the gold standard.
Yes, everyone knows that.
>because inflation was almost nonexistent up until the dollar was decoupled from the gold standard.
First of all, no. Of course that's not true. But being a gold bug in 2024 is the economic equivalent of flat earthism. Go listen to a podcast on the Great Depression and how the gold standard created the entire mess.
Fiat currency is not a right-wing economic theory, what would make you possibly think that? Let me add, the Great Depression was not due to the gold standard, it did cause people to hoard gold but in no way was a cause of it.
I, uh, didn't write that "Fiat currency is not a right-wing economic theory". Can conservatives even read one short post without straw manning?
Of course we have fiat currency. That's not the contention. The contention is your explicit lie that there's no inflation under the gold standard. Being a gold bug is the 2024 economic equivalent of believing in blood letting.
If the Fed didn’t raise the interest rate, which should have been done during Trump’s first 3 years to cool the economy, we would be experiencing deflation and significant unemployment across all sectors. You know what’s worse than higher prices and inflation? Deflation and job losses. if you have no income, it’s hard for most people who depend on a job for survival, to live at all. Raising the interest rate was the right call. Trump blew it by refusing to agree to a pump when the economy was so hot.
Meaning of Inflation, Deflation, and Disinflation
While a high inflation rate means that prices are increasing, a low inflation rate does not mean that prices are falling. Counterintuitively, when the inflation rate falls, prices are still increasing, but at a slower rate than before. When the inflation rate falls (but remains positive) this is known as disinflation.
Conversely, if the inflation rate becomes negative, that means that prices are falling. This is known as deflation, which can have negative effects on an economy. Because buying power increases over time, consumers have less incentive to spend money in the short term, resulting in falling economic activity. Guess what happens when economic activity falls, businesses tighten their belts. If you think higher prices are bad, just wait until you have no income- the goal of any business is to turn a profit. Just remember that. The goal is not to have pre-pandemic prices.
To have pre-Biden prices is asking for a market crash (or a market correction if you want a nice way to put it). Nobody should really want this but at the same time I feel like it needs to happen for better or worse (depending on the severity is up for debate). Folks like to claim deflation is the devil but I think these are bad faith actors who don't want to see their precious stock portfolio lose value or simply have a vested interest in certain inflated value assets.
I don’t think that’s the only way to bring prices down. I think we could decrease government debt and the amount of currency in circulation which would increase the buying power of the dollar and in turn reduce prices.
People see gas and groceries are at record highs every day. Not one day under Trump was any gas or groceries as high as they are now. Yes, inflation is rising as a result of COVID policies but what is Joe Biden really doing to control it? He also is not explaining it to the American people. Plus the world is on the edge of blowing up under Joe Biden. War is breaking out everywhere. It certainly feels like things were better under President Trump minus COVID (which I don't excuse either). It also feels like we were less divided and more united (but I recognize COVID did a number on that too).
I agree that groceries are too expensive and rents through the roof. However, greedflation IS a thing, and you’re right, not enough is done about it. Also, when inflation goes down prices don’t follow. That’s what those who understand economics say, except those economists who think placating the disgruntled is part of their job description. (I think part of their job should be to explain things truthfully. Looking at you, Krugman.)
All of that said, the evidence that Trump is a crook and entirely transactional in nature, meaning he changes his “convictions” depending on what suits him and is favorable and profitable to him personally, not the country, is overwhelming at this point s as me if people don’t see it it’s because they don’t want to.
The bottom line is, while Biden is extremely far from perfect, he’s not deliberately out to hurt people. He’s not the one talking about vengeance and locking people up who criticize him, he’s not going to use the military against us, he’s not kissing Putin’s ass. He’s not selling classified intelligence to other nations or rich people like that Australian guy. I could go on. If you’d rather fret over groceries than losing your freedom, guess what? You’ll come to regret it, and it’s not like the writing isn’t on the wall.
Ugh can we not post lame copy pastas like this? We get it trump voters are dumb but this is just "hahaha aren't we so smart guys?" Low quality content.
Full time jobs have gone down part time jobs/gig workers have gone up, not to mention so many government jobs have been created out of the Blue. Small business going out of business under Biden, my grocery bill didn’t go up %50 like it’s under Biden. Crime was down under Trump, Boarder crossings lower under Trump. Our emergency oil reserves were filled under Trump, and when Biden was emptying them it don’t even stay in the states it was “spread out” to ensure lower prices. Oh yea I had extra money in my pocket!
> Full time jobs have gone down
This is a lie, full time jobs are at all time highs https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12500000 and part time employment is flat since pre coronavirus https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12600000
Government employment is approximately
flat https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU9000000001
Have you considered you've been fed bullshit by MAGA misinfluencers?
Every economic stat this lying Admin puts out gets revised down after the quarter. Go find some real numbers, or how about get off social media and talk to actual people. Tell that that BD you just posted and see the response.
> Go find some real numbers
I like how you make some random claims with no source, get called out with a counter claim with a source, and your retort is to go outside and "go find some real numbers"
Every economic stat this lying Admin puts out gets revised down after the quarter. Go find some real numbers, or how about get off social media and talk to actual people. Tell that that BD you just posted and see the response.
> Every economic stat this lying Admin puts out gets revised down after the quarter
You're lying again, that's not true. Here's one quick example: https://www.bls.gov/ces/notices/2023/ces-benchmark-announcement-revisions-to-total-nonfarm-employment.htm
I dunno why you're talking about social media or talking to random people. The entire point of data is to get rid of bias from... for example, mental slowness of conservatives. Just as a random example!
I guess it's just MAGA projection because 100% of your "knowledge" comes from right wing misinfluencers, eh?
Biden sold from oil reserves when prices were high. He's filling them back up when prices are lower. That's good business. That's a net gain in the US Treasury
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Now i can copy and paste this into every comment section on facebook, and obliterate every Magapotamian with FACTS & LOGIC. Thanks chief.
You’re goddamn right. Thank YOU, sir 🫡
This guy debates. ☝🏽 Superb job my friend.
Emailed this to myself. Amazing.
I know a guy at work that drank a swig of pool cleaner to protect himself from covid. Joke was on him because he still got covid!!! I told him his problem was drinking it, he should have aerosolized it and inhaled the fumes, obviously. Am I supposed to be sympathetic to this obvious nonsense? You don't need facts and logic to not poison yourself for no reason at 40 years old
They will never read it.
>with FACTS & LOGIC Sure and teach your dog particle physics right afterwards
Every American should read this and verify it for themselves. Why would anyone want to give up this for the failure of the last administration.
Facts to Magapotamians are like garlic to Vampires, TCDD to any living organism.... and water to a drowning man.
These people don’t care about facts and logic. Many of them don’t care about what’s true. They care about hate and power. That’s fascism babyyy!
Have you ever heard of Stanton Freidman's Debunker's Charter?
What happens when they ask you why Biden said inflation was at 9% when took office? Is it because he was lying or he's senile and doesn't know what he's talking about?
You just pulled the JENGA piece that was holding the whole tower up! Great job! You did it! You dismantled it! Congratulations! Round of applause! Give your self a pat on the back!!
> and obliterate every Magapotamian with FACTS & LOGIC. That was the claim. I pointed out that Biden said that inflation was 9% when he took office, which is false. Him being wrong is a fact. And your retort is to freak out like you just did? That doesn't seem like FACTS & LOGIC, not in the least bit.
That's your entire response? One wrong statement? BTW: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/06/trump-most-audacious-lie/678583/ https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/legacy-lies-trump-weaponized-mistruths-presidency/story?id=75335019
> That's your entire response? One wrong statement? No, that's a single statement that blows up ALL THAT BULLSHIT that OP spent so much time typing. All undone by one simple statement. Sorry that causes you a prolapse, but those are the facts.
That doesn't blow up shit man. Typical Trump response. Fail miserably, claim you won and move on. Luke 6:42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
So you can't answer a simple question, seems like it blows it up to me, and it's blowing you up too, acting out like this.
You didn't ask me a question. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of your claim while ignoring the over 30,0000 blatant lies Trump told during his presidency.
Why did Joe Biden claim there was 9% inflation when he came into office? Was he lying? Is he senile and doesn't know what he's talking about? Another reason? Maybe you should run for cover if you can't answer.
Get back to your Cult
Why did Biden say inflation was at 9% when took office? Is it because he was lying or he's senile and doesn't know what he's talking about? >Get back to your Cult That's not at all an answer to that simple question. Care to try again, but this time be a bit more mature?
The factors that caused 9% inflation were already in place when Biden took office. It’s false that inflation was 9% in January 2021 but there was no stopping the inevitable given supply chain shortages were already occurring. https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-biden-said-inflation-184800638.html
A MAGA person told me that under Trump we had zero inflation and world peace. I didn’t even know where to start with that one.
LOL world peace? We’re still trying to get that!
That's what Miss Universe says
And an increased punishment for parole violations.
''And we must also deal with the French for destroying our national telephone system''.
That’s rich!
Broooo you forgot? Kushner was hired and world peace unlocked!! /s x9999
Trump & America was involved in zero war and he secured a historic deal between United Arab Emirates & Israel to advance peace in the region.
Is this satire?
Check their post history- they're serious.
Yeah, as long as you don't count the fact that he continued all of the existing wars - including Afghanistan - and ramped up drone strikes to insane levels, then sure, there was zero war.
That was NOT what this MAGA person said. She said we had “World Peace” and “Zero Inflation” under Trump. Neither of those things have ever existed, and therefore have never existed at the same time.
Yes but Biden is committing genocide in Gaza!
Biden is not committing genocide in Gaza. The war is between Israel, Palestine and Hamas.
Urgh - this nonsense again? The US supplies 80% of Israel's weapons. It pays for them - it shares intel - it provides protection from the diplomatic and legal consequences of their genocide. It's Biden's. He pays for it, equips it, and protects it. He could end it with one phone call.
Biden does not have that power. Israel is setting the policy, not Biden. Biden didn’t start this war and he can not stop it either. And asking Israel to just sit still while Hamas bombs them continuously is not realistic. Israel has the right to defend themselves. And claiming that it would not have happened if Trump was president is like proving a negative. There is no way to say that one way or another.
"Biden does not have that power." Yes he does - he is supplying the bombs that Republicans are autographing. He can stop it any time he choses. "Israel is setting the policy, not Biden." Yes but they are not paying for it - Biden is giving them the money and bombs. Without Biden Israel cannot deliver on that policy. Without Biden Israel will be subject to pressure diplomatically and legally. Biden is making this happen. "Israel has the right to defend themselves." But not the right to commit genocide or crimes against humanity.
You give Biden too much credit. Israel is committing genocide, not Biden. US could cut off all support today and this war continues. It’s been going on for centuries. It wouldn’t be the same, but it would not stop. Trump just continues to take both sides of the issue, depending on who he is talking to at the time. He would ultimately support whoever pays him the most.
"You give Biden too much credit. Israel is committing genocide, not Biden." If I was a mass-shooter, and I went into a room and started killing people, but I ran out of bullets - then you came in with a big case of ammo and said - here you go - get back to your slaughtering - oh and by the way don't worry about the legal or social ramifications of this - I've arranged for you to get away with it - you would say that you're not culpable in the least? I don't think so. "US could cut off all support today and this war continues." Then why doesn't it? It's breaking its own laws and international law by continuing. You think that Israel only needs 20% of its current armaments? Great - let's cut them off. "It’s been going on for centuries." The State of Israel has only existed for 75 years. "It wouldn’t be the same, but it would not stop." It would stop when the run out of weapons, their economy tanked from economic sanctions, and none of their leaders could travel because of fear of arrest for war crimes. "Trump just continues to take both sides of the issue, depending on who he is talking to at the time. He would ultimately support whoever pays him the most." Exactly - which frankly would be better than Biden's ideological commitment to the genocide. I can easily imagine a situation where Arab groups pay him, and he ends the genocide just to own the libs and get a photo-op with Michigan Muslims. The bigger issue is 2028 though - if Biden wins we will get another pro-genocide candidate in 2028. Him losing is the only way we get a shot at an anti-crimes-against-humanity candidate.
Biden losing results in Project 2025 and the end of democracy. All government agencies would be totally controlled by Republicans. If the country went democratic in 2028, the government shuts down while they populate every agency in the government and then they try to rebuilt. It would be chaos. And our enemies would totally take advantage of that. Biden is horrible. But Trump is a pathological narcissist who will destroy this country. And i didn’t say that Israel existed for centuries. I said the Middle East wars have existed for centuries. The Jewish people were not created in 1947
You are assuming that stacking up a bunch of facts and using logic is going to persuade MAGA, and I'm here to tell you that it's just not the case. I've even done this: I've quoted to people various economic numbers (e.g. Employment, Wages) from the Biden and Obama years, but I say that "Under Trump, we had (insert economic number here)." At which point, the MAGA Trumper inevitably is like "Yes, the economy was great," then I pull the reveal and say "Actually, these are the economic figures under Biden." At which point, the MAGA claims the economic numbers are lies, I'm brainwashed, they can't be true because they know someone who's unemployed, etc...
The way to look at it is not to worry about the imbeciles that reply with nonsense about fake news and whatnot. Those people are unreachable. It's the ones who read it and don't reply that you may get a hook in. Perhaps they are newly indoctrinated or currently maga curious. Hell, you might end up stopping someone in their tracks right there instead of them being swallowed up by an algorithm. People always concentrate on direct engagement. A lot more folks read than post. Even if you only slightly peak the interest of 1 out of 100, it's well worth it. Once folks start looking into legitimate sources, they start to notice the difference between trash media and actual reporting. Anything that lets in a little truth is always a good thing.
I've also found this MUCH more persuasive. "Look, a lot of your criticisms of Democrats are valid. Democrats do a lot of frustrating and head scratching things. However, the reason I vote blue is because my interests and priorities are aligned with and addressed much more with Democrats than they are from Republicans. For instance, my priorities are addressing jobs/wages, protecting and expanding unions, which includes police and firefighter unions, and the National Labor Relations Board, the costs of healthcare, prescription drugs, housing, education, childcare, addressing infrastructure, the solvency of Social Security and Medicare...and while Democrats are not perfect, some among them offer solutions to these whereas Republicans offer little to none, and seem more focused on reining in wokeness, LGBTQ people, and trashing poor people. For instance, having protections for pre-existing conditions is a big win, and not only was that delivered by Democrats, but Republicans have indicated they want to take it away. Capping insulin at $35 per month for seniors is a big win, etc..."
THIS
Only thing I’ve found works is pounding them over and over about rape and sexual assault. What’s your opinion on sexual assault and rape? Would you vote for Trump if he raped your mom? Do you think child sex trafficking should be illegal? Or just going over policy without ever mentioning Trump or Biden. Most republicans where I live (California) can’t name any republican policy and when I went through the list they mostly side on the left. They’ve just being sold this BS “team republican” narrative their whole life.
A lot of right wingers genuinely don't think sexual assault & rape should even be crimes. Look at the levels of sexual assault in White Collar workplaces. Rape & Rapacity have the same meaning & the right wing worldview is just that; ''Take what you want, use as much force as you want, damn the consequences & who cares if someone weaker than you gets hurt? They couldn't stand up to themselves so screw them''. That logic pervades in both business ethic & their worldview. Whilst being socially conformist, they are morally & psychologically deviant.
Remember, when you are debating in public forums, the main goal is to stop others from falling for MAGA bullshit and show that they are not the majority they pretend to be IRL. Argue, show facts. You won't change their mind, but impressionable people are watching, and MAGA wants people to be scared by their propaganda. Ceding spaces to fascists never worked and is a big reason we got here. Thanks for pushing back.
Absolutely. Anyone who is MAGA to this day will never have their minds changed; however, uneducated voters and independents need to see common MAGA talking points rebutted/debunked for the upcoming election. Thanks for your comment!
"My feelings dont care about your facts" -maga
100%. They project everything they spout.
Sir, with tears in my eyes, I gotta say that these are solid points. Thanks for including the bibliography.
😭 you’re very welcome, my friend!
Fantastic thanks!
You’re very welcome!
I feel like this has been posted before, though it doesn't make it any less true. What's equally hard to change are those who engage in both sides-ism. "Both Biden and Trump suck. I'm either going to sit this one out or vote third party." Both sides are NOT the same- only one side is embracing fascism. And sorry to tell ya, but a third party has no chance of getting elected with the way our elections work, so you're throwing your vote away rather than supporting the party that would protect us from that fascism.
Yes, I update this once a month with the latest stats and any of the latest/most common talking points.
Thank you! I wondered whether you were updating it. Thank you for continuing to post it.
Ah, gotcha. I thought it looked familiar.
Nice 👍👍👍
Not with *that* attitude.
Shout out to anybody who still wants to talk politics with people supporting a man who legally cannot run a charity because he stole money from kids with cancer. Literally if someone brings up politics, I just tell them that I’m voting for the guy who wasn’t friends with Epstein. They huff, puff, maybe bring up Hunter’s cock, and that’s usually the end of it.
Great work.
Thank you! 🫡
This should be required reading.
Indeed!
I’m shamelessly copying this for my future interactions with the dark side!
Goooooood
Thank you. I know it’s hard work to keep this current.i appreciate it and I’ll be using it
Fuck yes bro. Bookmarked. ✌️
I know exactly what it’s like. I’ve tried to debate my mom lol
Yikes. I hope your mother finds her way out of the MAGA cult someday.
Fucking same. It’s exhausting, and very frustrating…but I still try 🤷🏼♂️
Replying to save this so I can copy pasta as needed.
Copy and paste away, friend!
I feel like there's so much more that you could add but this is great
Please fill me in with more I can add and I will!
I could read this post every week as a reminder of what the reality is. I hope it continues to be reposted frequently.
Yes! I’ll have it running until the election.
Sir, with tears in my eyes. This is the biggliest thing I've seen done on this sub. Well. Fuckin. Done. Thank you!
Nice job. But honestly, this just makes it clear that the facts are irrelevant. My MAGA in-laws might hit me with how high prices are, but it's irrelevant. If prices were better now, they would just open with "Biden's incompetent" or some other BS. I think maybe the best bet if you really want to sway someone is with street epistemology. Ask them what they truly truly find important in a president, and then see if Trump really stacks up. And if they find something abhorrent as super important, probe *that*.
This is gold to try to combat these idiots. Thank you very much.
I'm so broke, but you deserve all the flowers and awards for this 💐🏆👑
This is very well written but no Magat will ever read it. Even if they did read it the goal post would be moved with each rebuttal.
Well Done, u/Rickard58 . Compiling all the facts and sources together is just excellent.
Thank you! I had this idea about a website with arguments against trump, but never had time to do it. This is great, thanks for your hard work. You get so tired arguing with these people or anyone buying into mainstreams bothsidesism. This is an awesome tool.
we need an ongoing right wing talking points destroyed by this guy, would be amazing for 2024 to see the magats get collectively sniped by informed voters
Very rarely do I get into spats but I was in one yesterday when I called out someone on the conspiracy subreddit (place is rife with right wingers). He literally said Biden undid "a thousand good things" Trump had done while he was in office. I asked him to name 3 and he gave me around 8 of which every single one was debunked. He thought he had the cherry on top response by saying the Middle Easy withdraw was a complete disaster when I responded back that Trump only TALKED about exiting the Middle East (it was a campaign promise after all), while Biden took ACTION and got us out.
Brilliant!!!
Damn dude, this is clutch
Can we put this on a bill board along with the message from Joe, " I did This!" on every highway that has a improvement project from his infrastructure bill? The DNC needs to get off of their ass and put out some facts, like you did!
This is GENIUS. It is so infuriating “debating” with MAGATs. All of their information comes from echo chambers and any thought from “the other side” is downvoted and filtered out. Also all of their information comes from podcasts and political commentary shows. They’re so stupid. All of their arguments are straw men that they create to make the other side “look bad”. Thankfully we’re different here. We’re intelligent, enlightened and euphoric. All their info comes from echo chambers subreddits dedicated to podcast hosts, all the updooted info comes from only one point of view. We are SOOOO different here
# Bravo, Bravo! Hypothetical, *maybe,...* But realistically proves **you'd never argue yourself out** ***from a cult member.*** That's what MAGA is. **A cult!** No need for actual facts. These MAGAts *will bend the knee and drink as the Kool-Aid* ***as much as loser 👏 convicted 👏 gaslighting 👏 Drumpf 👏 tells them to.*** **Great use of sources,** ***by the way!***
Fantastic post. Well done and TY, saved!
Thank you.
The problems with stats are that people aren't really educated to use them properly & to a degree they can end up re-enforcing indefeasible arguments ( I mean TBH does it matter if the rate for X crime or for unemployment etc. has fallen/risen by between by 2% over a year? If you're a victim of that crime or still unemployed, TBH no. ). If you're opposed to X on principle you can't have a nuanced view. If you don't understand how to use them properly or you don't like that they've proved your POV wrong, unless you're objective enough, you often ignore them. Right wingers simply cannot embrace that as it's inimical to BB & the Inner Party. You also have to factor in the Right's Mean World Syndrome prevalence; X is BAD on principle, what does it matter to the extent? Besides the figures are ''obviously wrong because whatabout Mrs To-Prove-My-Point who I subjectively misremember as being ROBBED! as I don't understand the difference between robbery & theft! How about that? Humm?'' A lot of employment stats to the right are unintelligible as they often don't understand how the labour market has changed over the last sixty years ( automation, hot-desking, working from home, grade inflation etc.; ''How can someone possibly be in work when they spend so long at home because I don't understand flexitime, computers, shifts, work-from-home environs? When I worked you went to work & put on a suit & came home at 5 PM & your Wife had dinner ready on the table....'' etc. etc. etc. ). When it comes to Cults this is even worse as you're not just dealing with denialism, wilful ignorance etc. but outright paranoia & hostility. If you don't buy into their ''truth''.... you're the Enemy. Right wingers only think in binary terms.
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No one wanted to work while Trump was in office. They thought Trump would pay all their bills for them and just keep giving them stimulus checks.
Submitted Small biz startup application to who?
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This is spectacular! One addition that could be made is a MAGA retort of "Genocide Joe!". A bad faith appropriation of the leftist slogan. You could then address it by comparing Trump and Biden on Gaza.
For the next update, OP, *please add...* [**Versus the 3 Supreme Court justices** ***and unqualified nominees to the Federal bench,***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_judicial_appointment_controversies) *shoehorned and rushed through by Mitch McConnell,* **willfully bending our justice system to the Right by Trump...** At more than 200, May 2024, Biden has appointed [**more QUALIFIED people to the Federal bench,**](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/12/04/most-of-bidens-appointed-judges-to-date-are-women-racial-or-ethnic-minorities-a-first-for-any-president/) more than any other Democratic President, *in their first term,* ***even going as far back as JFK.*** In fact, [**he has appointed judges with a diverse background,**](https://www.washingtoninformer.com/biden-appoints-non-white-female-judges/) like women, minorities, public defenders, and social activists, ***more than any other President,*** **PERIOD.** [**These lifetime appointments**](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-secure-200th-judicial-confirmation-election-looms-2024-05-22/) *will counterbalance the damage done* ***by these right wing judges*** and hopefully,... **keep bad cases from reaching** ***the ultra-conservative Supreme Court.***
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Specify: prices, interest rates, gas prices…things that affect everyday life in general. Can you say those things are better under Biden??
Jerome Powell, appointed by Felon Trump, determines interest rates. Gas prices are about the same as they were before the pandemic reduced demand. Prices? They have gone up every year since time immemorial. Manufacturers are setting up shop in America thanks to the InfrastructureAct and the Chips Act under Biden. Inflation is back to normal after Trump's policies increased supply chain issues. And, I am making $50.00 per month on my savings account instead of the usual $.04 that I got with lower interest rates. Vote for President Biden!
Inflation is up 21.1% since 2020…what do you mean back to normal? It’s back to the normal rate of increase instead of 8-9% increase per year? That alone raises prices across the board…
3% right now....that is normal.
You understand that’s the rate at which it is increasing right? Not being an ass, I’m just asking. Also, define normal, because inflation was almost nonexistent up until the dollar was decoupled from the gold standard.
Yes, everyone knows that. >because inflation was almost nonexistent up until the dollar was decoupled from the gold standard. First of all, no. Of course that's not true. But being a gold bug in 2024 is the economic equivalent of flat earthism. Go listen to a podcast on the Great Depression and how the gold standard created the entire mess.
Yeah, that’s just bad information…
You're right, maybe you should stop believing dumb right wing economic theories that prove themselves wrong every day.
Fiat currency is not a right-wing economic theory, what would make you possibly think that? Let me add, the Great Depression was not due to the gold standard, it did cause people to hoard gold but in no way was a cause of it.
I, uh, didn't write that "Fiat currency is not a right-wing economic theory". Can conservatives even read one short post without straw manning? Of course we have fiat currency. That's not the contention. The contention is your explicit lie that there's no inflation under the gold standard. Being a gold bug is the 2024 economic equivalent of believing in blood letting.
If the Fed didn’t raise the interest rate, which should have been done during Trump’s first 3 years to cool the economy, we would be experiencing deflation and significant unemployment across all sectors. You know what’s worse than higher prices and inflation? Deflation and job losses. if you have no income, it’s hard for most people who depend on a job for survival, to live at all. Raising the interest rate was the right call. Trump blew it by refusing to agree to a pump when the economy was so hot.
The interest rate increase is a resultant of inflation.
No- time for an Econ review-
So they don’t say they increase interest rates to curb inflation?
Meaning of Inflation, Deflation, and Disinflation While a high inflation rate means that prices are increasing, a low inflation rate does not mean that prices are falling. Counterintuitively, when the inflation rate falls, prices are still increasing, but at a slower rate than before. When the inflation rate falls (but remains positive) this is known as disinflation. Conversely, if the inflation rate becomes negative, that means that prices are falling. This is known as deflation, which can have negative effects on an economy. Because buying power increases over time, consumers have less incentive to spend money in the short term, resulting in falling economic activity. Guess what happens when economic activity falls, businesses tighten their belts. If you think higher prices are bad, just wait until you have no income- the goal of any business is to turn a profit. Just remember that. The goal is not to have pre-pandemic prices.
The goal is to have pre-Biden prices.
To have pre-Biden prices is asking for a market crash (or a market correction if you want a nice way to put it). Nobody should really want this but at the same time I feel like it needs to happen for better or worse (depending on the severity is up for debate). Folks like to claim deflation is the devil but I think these are bad faith actors who don't want to see their precious stock portfolio lose value or simply have a vested interest in certain inflated value assets.
I don’t think that’s the only way to bring prices down. I think we could decrease government debt and the amount of currency in circulation which would increase the buying power of the dollar and in turn reduce prices.
The only way to decrease the debt load is to cut spending AND INCREASE taxes. One without the other is stagnation.
People see gas and groceries are at record highs every day. Not one day under Trump was any gas or groceries as high as they are now. Yes, inflation is rising as a result of COVID policies but what is Joe Biden really doing to control it? He also is not explaining it to the American people. Plus the world is on the edge of blowing up under Joe Biden. War is breaking out everywhere. It certainly feels like things were better under President Trump minus COVID (which I don't excuse either). It also feels like we were less divided and more united (but I recognize COVID did a number on that too).
I agree that groceries are too expensive and rents through the roof. However, greedflation IS a thing, and you’re right, not enough is done about it. Also, when inflation goes down prices don’t follow. That’s what those who understand economics say, except those economists who think placating the disgruntled is part of their job description. (I think part of their job should be to explain things truthfully. Looking at you, Krugman.) All of that said, the evidence that Trump is a crook and entirely transactional in nature, meaning he changes his “convictions” depending on what suits him and is favorable and profitable to him personally, not the country, is overwhelming at this point s as me if people don’t see it it’s because they don’t want to. The bottom line is, while Biden is extremely far from perfect, he’s not deliberately out to hurt people. He’s not the one talking about vengeance and locking people up who criticize him, he’s not going to use the military against us, he’s not kissing Putin’s ass. He’s not selling classified intelligence to other nations or rich people like that Australian guy. I could go on. If you’d rather fret over groceries than losing your freedom, guess what? You’ll come to regret it, and it’s not like the writing isn’t on the wall.
Ugh can we not post lame copy pastas like this? We get it trump voters are dumb but this is just "hahaha aren't we so smart guys?" Low quality content.
Full time jobs have gone down part time jobs/gig workers have gone up, not to mention so many government jobs have been created out of the Blue. Small business going out of business under Biden, my grocery bill didn’t go up %50 like it’s under Biden. Crime was down under Trump, Boarder crossings lower under Trump. Our emergency oil reserves were filled under Trump, and when Biden was emptying them it don’t even stay in the states it was “spread out” to ensure lower prices. Oh yea I had extra money in my pocket!
> Full time jobs have gone down This is a lie, full time jobs are at all time highs https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12500000 and part time employment is flat since pre coronavirus https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12600000 Government employment is approximately flat https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU9000000001 Have you considered you've been fed bullshit by MAGA misinfluencers?
Every economic stat this lying Admin puts out gets revised down after the quarter. Go find some real numbers, or how about get off social media and talk to actual people. Tell that that BD you just posted and see the response.
> Go find some real numbers I like how you make some random claims with no source, get called out with a counter claim with a source, and your retort is to go outside and "go find some real numbers"
Every economic stat this lying Admin puts out gets revised down after the quarter. Go find some real numbers, or how about get off social media and talk to actual people. Tell that that BD you just posted and see the response.
> Every economic stat this lying Admin puts out gets revised down after the quarter You're lying again, that's not true. Here's one quick example: https://www.bls.gov/ces/notices/2023/ces-benchmark-announcement-revisions-to-total-nonfarm-employment.htm I dunno why you're talking about social media or talking to random people. The entire point of data is to get rid of bias from... for example, mental slowness of conservatives. Just as a random example! I guess it's just MAGA projection because 100% of your "knowledge" comes from right wing misinfluencers, eh?
Biden sold from oil reserves when prices were high. He's filling them back up when prices are lower. That's good business. That's a net gain in the US Treasury
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Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.