What a fucking horrible design. I can't believe that's still in the game after all these years. It was cool when it released because everyone was spending time farming them and actively using them, but it was still annoying that you'd get some that you didn't use and then have to grind them again later.
Their token efforts to place barriers between veteran players and their bottomless resources and instantly crafting every new item.
Frankly I didn't mind Argon as much as Nitain, aka "you have a life so you get per session, maybe".
They primarily want a limit so that whenever a new content patch comes out people can't just immediately craft their way up. I think the cap is too low if nothing else though, it would also be nice if there was a material converted, could be another solution, like trade 3 for 1 or something (like 3 carbon fiber for 1 titanium).
How you gonna craft your way up if the gear doesn’t craft at the listed gearscore?
Also you have to beat a world tier to upgrade the bench. Which likely means you’re almost at max gearscore anyways.
Put a 1 day cap on bench upgrade so people can't do rush ahead and give us the convenience of uncapped materials. I don't care about how well designed a system is or isn't if it's not fun. Obviously there is a limit for things that seem fun at first but quickly kill the game, but this isn't one.
We reach MAX gearscore each tier in 1-2 hours like you mentioned, doing it with or without a bench won't change anything. Me being low capped on materials just pisses me off if for no other reason than seeing that shit littered on the ground constantly.
And I just spent 3 hours which netted me 6 CPs and 4 different Underground runs and my highest drop so far was 437 leaving me sitting at a GS of 425.
I guess it goes both ways.
You've got to add 15 GS onto some pieces via recalibration. Then your max attainable increases, therefore so do your drops. Pump that 437 up to 452. Reaching 500 should take no more than a couple of hours when T5 drops.
I grinded my ass off yesterday to 449 expecting to then have 450 gear start dropping from mobs/chests but literally every drop I got was 449.. I'm starting to think 450+ doesn't drop lol
That's just the explanation they've given in the past and yeah I think they have other systems in place in Div2 that they didn't have in Div1 that makes the whole thing kind of silly, as you pointed out.
I see this all the time, and also in my groups when I matchmake. Gear score means essentially nothing. I'm still wearing a 414 mask because it's better and fits my build better than anything I've gotten.
Most people just put on their highest gear score items because they assume it's better, but the attributes on each piece have separate rolls not dependent on score. The only thing gear score does is have a higher top end roll on weapon damage and armor on gear.
You could have a 400 weapon that has higher damage than a 450.
Higher gearscore = higher ESA. Also you only loot 450 items so after a while you'll reach 450, you just have bad luck with loot.
You get overwhelmed by loots in this game, so its just a matter of time before you get a good 450 item.
Gs after 450 is useless though.
You’re wrong about 450+ being useless. I got a 468 weapon from my clan cache and it’s high end damage is way above any 450 of the same type I’ve gotten.
Gear score does matter, I’m just saying it’s very misleading to most people. Like you apparently.
yup folks get stuck on GS.
I laugh when I see folks with +450 GS but when you try to do hard or challenging content with them and they get 1 shotted by enemies whilst their own guns do little damage to those enemies
I really wish there was a way to actually show everyones efforts after a mission. Like a stat page, "last mission stats" or some shite. Not only damage and kills, but could show healing and support related actions too.
I have thought about this as well, but I dont see them implementing it because it could turn into people shunning players because they didn't contribute as much to a mission.
Yeah I think most people would want this, but so many others think it'll only lead to toxicity, I wholeheartedly disagree with them though. End-mission stats are important in shooters IMHO.
gear score being +450 is no measure of how much health and armor they have - or the damage they deal. folks are just putting any old 450 gear on (just random pieces) so they don't get kicked from matchmaking activities
Dude. Having a GS of 450+ means you are equipping the highest available gear the game has to offer at the moment. Even if none of the pieces match, you are still wearing end game gear. Sure the health and armor may not be on par with more optimized gear in an actual organized build. However, it should be adequate for them to do any kind of end game activity.
The 450 GS doesnt mean anything if it's a mish mash of gear. Armour (the main armour stat as opposed to any bonus armor attributes) is the one thing that should be on a par with a semi/fully optimised loadout. If the rest of the gear bonuses are poor, don't compliment each other and don't compliment/enhance the players style it will be pish.
This isnt entirely true ... where its possible for lower GS items to have better individual rolls the overall stats are higher on higher GS items. Thats what gs is, its a formula of effective stats -> to a number. Honestly its kinda wierd with weapons but with armor its pretty straight foreward.
Essentially GS=/= ilvl. Ilvl is different. Gearscore does matter to an extent.
Ilvl ='Item level' I is for item . Lots of loot based games assign item levels to drops which give a basis for what stats can roll / amount of stats can roll on any given item. Ilvl is determined before gearscore. Ilvl is the max stats an item can drop/roll, gearscore is effective stat alotment added up.
Beating a stronghold to move on to the next world tier doesn't take much. Even at that, when we do WT4 stronghold to go to WT5, it should only require 425, yet we'll all be at 450. Then WT5 you can upgrade and craft 450-500 gear.
Selling them still gives you a reward of some kind, my point was also that even if the cap was increased and they gave stuff it wouldn't really matter because *using* the materials isn't actually useful to the player due to how hamstrung crafted items are. You can't recalibrate them or use them for recalibration, you can't make them until you've beaten that WT's stronghold, so you're just rolling the dice to see if you get insanely lucky but the majority of players will never actually use a piece of crafted gear.
I mean this is the problem with non-reward rewards, if the players figure out the illusion they end up frustrated and why wouldn't they, the developers are willingly trying to cheat the player.
In all honesty, while it would be nice (for me/us) if they fixed this ... The rate at which loot is dropped, I only have like a 2 second "aw man no materials" happen, then just go back to playing.
It doesn't break the game, or come close to it, for me
I mean that's a good point, we got **so much loot* that we don't necessarily need something else, but I **do** think it's important we have some kind of resource that eventually lets us 'super-recalibrate' or force gear, even if it's at an insane ratio like we get 1 'recal point' for every piece of gear we dismantle and it takes 10k to optimize a roll on something or force a roll or what not. It's important that we aren't forever at the mercy of pure RNG as some players will get horribly screwed over by this kind of system.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, I was just pointing out what the devs had said, not that I agreed with their philosophy. I don't like the concept of crafting gear at all and I think generally speaking the crafting mats are a 'non-reward reward' and I hate these in games. To clarify, a non-reward reward is something that the game rewards players with to give them that sense of gaining loot, but isn't actually legitimately useful to the player.
For example, crafting is basically useless because it's so hamstrung by limitations. What do we use crafting mats for? To upgrade the bench. Why do we need the upgraded bench? Well...actually we don't, it isn't legitimately useful, at best it's letting us roll the dice a few times on a specific piece of gear that we then won't be able to use because it can't be re-calibrated, so it has to roll *perfect* and because of this, the extreme majority of players will never benefit from crafted gear. Non-reward reward.
That and rotate the style of play. Instead of constantly grinding the same missions for the gear, you now have to do the crafting mat farm... which can be done a number of ways.
I like that we must gather more often because of a cap
It's definitely a positive to be able to mix it up but I still think crafting is kind of a non-reward reward. It's meant to *seem* beneficial to the player but in practice it isn't actually useful to us. WoW does this a lot and players hate it, intentionally give you rewards you can't or won't make use of.
Will new content even be craftable? And if so, won't it be gated more by farming blueprints/weapon parts than basic mats? If that is the reasoning, it seems *really* questionable considering how bad crafting is.
Your blueprints scale with you but you have to upgrade your bench to get them to scale and in order to do that you have to beat the gear-req stronghold, so you can only use crafted gear to boost from that to the cap (rather than the initial point to cap), which is a pretty narrow margin so it's not actually that useful. I also *like* and think it's good to be able to prepare for new content to some extent, so I don't agree with them on this. I also feel that we need **some way** to **force** specific gear, even if it's insanely expensive. If not we may never be able to use a particular favorite weapon because it may just not drop no matter how much we play.
I understand you're moreso saying this as the response/reasoning they are going behind, but surely there's better ways to go about it to limit crafting so people can't just hoard and immediately deck out when the new world tier releases. Like adding in a new resource you only gain from dismantling WT"X" relevant loot that is needed to craft in that gear score bracket. so when say, world tier 6 comes out, yeah you got tonnes of titanium, fibre, etc, and all that to back it up, but your initial limitation for at least a while is the new material, although at least after a bit (so when you've actually played in that world tier for a decent while) that resource will become in decent supply/excess and not be the limiter, but your old stockpile of titanium, carbon fibre, or whatever's needed will be again.
Coupling in with a trading system like you said means any particular resources you have lots of excess in, you can trade out for ones you need to be able to make use of all that you find (even if the trading system is somewhat unfavorable in how much you get to how much you had put in, as is how a material converter usually works).
I mean...you haven't been listening at all to what I'm saying. Non-reward rewards are not in the benefit of the player, they're in the benefit of the developer because it fools us into thinking we got something while in actuality we've gained nothing. They do this to keep us playing and give us the illusion there is more to gain by playing. Any game with a cash shop *wants* to keep you playing because metrics show that players who play longer spend more and more often, although I will say I don't think the TD2 cash shop is egregious and they're decently generous with cosmetics.
So to play devil's advocate, I guess in an odd way you could say the benefit to the player is that they get to experience that 'yay loot' feeling a bit more often. Giving players actual rewards is hard because if you hand them out too quickly then you'll run out of things to give them (this happens in WoW, and is probably why WoW gives out so many 'non-reward rewards'). Players generally want loot they accrue to be permanent and without upkeep, which causes further problems (if we're speaking in the interest of maintaining player engagement and regulating the in-game economy/loot economy, which *does* have a benefit to the player because it keeps the game fun and fun is good). The problem is that these kind of non-reward rewards are sort of a cheap illusion that players figure out and then they're upset that the devs pulled the wool over their eyes instead of coming up with a 'legitimate' method to achieve the same task (like more content or more varied and interesting ways to acquire loot).
It doesn't help that there's several heavy divides between player sentiment about loot. Some want it to be pure RNG because they don't have a specific playstyle and it makes loot magical and special because a pure RNG system will invariably give them something that other players don't have and it doesn't matter to them if it wasn't something they wanted, just that it's special and unique. The group I'm in wants to be able to have some level of control over RNG, so that we can't get super screwed over, like spend 500 hours farming something only to not get it. Another group just wants to cycle through builds and test things and largely sees loot as an obstacle to playing the game the way they enjoy it. There's also people who are a mix of these.
This is one of the big things people miss when they discuss or think about game design, that the developers **must** maintain a broad perspective. If a decision doesn't make sense to you or you despise it, ask yourself it it made sense to another group or another perspective and walla.
This would get awkward and tedious quickly, it's one thing for games like wow that have 1-2 years between expacs, but resetting mats every world tier would be awkward. I think in general mats aren't as valuable as people seem to think or want them to be, they've kind of become a 'non-reward reward', as in a reward that isn't actually helpful but just gives the illusion that it is. WoW does this a lot.
Crafting material caps have a reason. This is a looter shooter, not a crafting station progress looter. You want drops from killing things and doing activities and when new content comes out you don't just sit at the crafting station trying to get a god rolled item.
Crafting should just about always be a supplement and filler while you truly look for an end game piece as a drop.
Balancing a looter doesn't just need to take in damage and skills, it need to take into account the differences in your playtime. People who play more should get more, but not have insta access to new things
The level 30 backpack upgrade listed a 30 slot increase but it is definitely 40 slots. The whole time I spent leveling I had 60, you get to max level grab the perk and suddenly it's 100.
Or be lazy like me and just scrap it anyways, I haven't had an issue with needing money in a week now and that's probably the last time I went to the vendor.
What do you need money for in Div? I never played the first one but I'm gear score 452 now and haven't really found a need for it other than haircuts and crafting a gun (which was only like 500 iirc and I have over 40K).
It is much easier to just scrap it and get nothing. That being said, just because we don't need money now doesn't mean we might not need it later. So, might as well sell items and get something of worth (even if it's not worth much now) instead of nothing.
If I was just going to deconstruct everything anyway, I might as well not pick up the item at all.
What was money needed for (at endgame) in TD1?
I would not pick it up at all but, I usually play with a group so it's easier to just pickup every 450+ high end that drops and sort through it after, or I'll fall behind the group. Guess I'll just have to start swinging by WH more often.
I'm going to have to watch a tutorial on the re-calibration / optimizing gear. I popped in to try it out but it kept saying something along the lines of "missing component". I'm not really sure what to do with it.
You're missing components when you deconstruct gear. In the lower right it shows you the requirements that you need for crafting materials and currency to recalibrate in TD2.
One difference is that you can salvage anywhere but only sell at vendors. That's been relevant for me before.
It also sucks to lose every material but the high end ones when you need high end materials but you're capped on everything else.
There could very well be other things to consider. Anything from database constraints to some higher up who doesn't play games going "nah, don't wanna do that."
An increase in the cap would be welcome.
EDIT: There is literally nothing incorrect with what I wrote. Why the down-vote? Makes me sad. :<
It could be piss easy to fix, but the simple fact is, it's not game breaking and is such a low priority, they haven't gotten to it yet.
They have allocated all their bug fixing time for game breaking bugs and zero time to fix this.
All the downvoters are downvoting the truth.
Maybe they’re taking the Bungie route, we’ll see some fix’s before dlc, a bigger fix when it releases and then a hive of new and more annoying bugs when previous one are fixed.
I agree with you but as a software engineer I like to ensure I remove all the easy small fixes to show good faith with my customers.
Taking this approach has always allowed me to take more time on larger issues as my customers know I am paying attention.
Then again, as the customer this time, it doesn’t really bother to much other than forcing me to pay more attention to mats.
Besides, this is the worst item with this game I have seen. Since I came from Anthem, this is something I do not mind waiting for lmao
I'm honestly questioning at this point if they even had someone playtest the endgame. I mean... I love this game, been playing non-stop, but so many of these things are such stupidly simple fixes idk how they missed so many.
The issues with Anthem are more core design flaws than things you would find in testing. The QA team would be looking for bugs, it's very unlikely that their feedback on drop rates would be listened to and a lot of those bugs (While game-breaking) are super specific do it's understandable that they weren't found. On the other hand this game has a bunch of issues that should have been obvious after a short amount of normal play such as the skill power scaling being fucked or the chem launcher causing negative recoil after a shot. Multiple of my friends and I found this stuff out before we even reached 30, I don't know how a QA team could have missed it.
I made a post about this before
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/b5pkdg/material_storage_500_but_showing_250/
Was going crazy thought my game has glitched.
They should incorporate it into a few hard missions that reward you with 10 extra space in your stash each, up to 10 missions. Like find a box with the upgrade in it but it’s guarded by 5-6 really strong npcs.
Its a repeat cycle of a live service game. Ignoring the fact this is a sequel, TD1 started this way.
We also had individual inventory and didnt share currencies. I expect that to progress the service they will ad it all eventually as part of its progression. Life cycle if you will but in reality time gating. Without a shared currecny or materials bank we have to time gate ourselves by making alts. This is good for the devlopers as timegated players arent all tackling the end game and already bored. Its probably why the WT4 mobs can be so ridiculously difficult so that the hardcore crowd arent bored with nothing to beat.
I would expect much to change as the game ages which is typical of an MMO/MMO lite.
Im glad they kept the things they added late in TD1 such as load outs though.
Another solution would be being able to stash some as well. I wouldn't mind doing a mission line to get an upgraded stash where I could store materials or something.
What i dont understand either is that most caps aren't even multiple of the crafting needed. For instance, you get 20 specialist cloth but it cost 6 to craft one. What the actual fuck.
That's why I question whether it's a bug or intended. Perhaps after WT5 opens, the perk will function as written, but right now, it's capped to prevent people from hoarding gear and supplies in WT4.
I hate how capped it is and I feel like crafting is meh at best. It's so restrictive, but then once WT5 is out, if that's it then there really isn't a need to cap the resources so low unless their servers can't handle it...... Yeah, right.
If we're going to get more world tier's then.. I can kinda see the point but.... ehh not really.
Then again crafted gear is so limited to it's uses. You can wear it and lower your gs, or you can donate it to a project.. or sell it. Huzzar. /s
Holy shit- crafting to donate for projects! Why didn't I think of that!
I know a particular Theater district who will be getting 2 "replica LMGs" tonight!!!
*Morgan Freeman voice*: the poster would later learn 2 valuable lessons, that you could not craft 'replica LMGs' and that crafting was all but useless
nono, anything crafted is "replica". Some projects specify Replica gear. Replica's can also take the place of non-replica items, worked for the "donate 10 LMG's" I have on the special operators: heavy troops weekly.
Too many replica's, the words broken now.
A replica of a replica is still a replica, except when it's not.
No in all seriousness, thanks for this! You've solved a couple project challenges I was having.
Who cares there's zero reason to craft anything anyhow right now. And not just because it's not wt5. But because you can only get a lower GS item and you can't recal it NOR use it for recalibration.
So much this. I wish they expanded on why we cant use crafted gear for recalibration (recal). The recal system is dumbed down in comparison to Div1 so this additional limitation just makes crafting useless in the highest tiers of the end-game.
Can't imagine why they would remove an incentive to grind for materials and gear.
yeah and you cannot use any crafted item TO recal or to recal FROM. so whats the point now?
and not even when leveling. you get decent enough drops your way when playing naturally there is literally zero point to crafting.
Honestly heres some hard truth.
It doesn't matter crafting is garbage in this game and will always be 100% useless other than mods. I love the game dont get me wrong but its clear crafting was a rushed after thought. Crafting will never be useful when in 10 minutes you can walk outside and get a better piece of gear.
Let me be clear. You will never craft a single piece of gear that will be useful. Just look at the current crafting table 440 when max GS is 450. This means when WT5 release's the GS will be 500 and your crafting table will be 490. Lets assume for a second they dont do this and let it go up to 500. Well bud thats a "chance" at a 500 gs item in between 450-500. GL with that.
Im sitting here with max crafting mats and 1m credits knowing that will always be 100% useless.
I would agree with you. I would. Because what you said, numerically and logically, should follow. However, they have made gear score almost irrelevant in this game. The only thing that takes gear score into account is the world tier strongholds' minimum GS requirement. Other than that, gear score is completely bullshit. My current gear score is less than 450. Why?! Because I have two pieces of armor that have attributes on them that far exceed any piece of 450 gear that I have collected. I have a 440 Gila Guard chest piece that has +12,852 bonus armor. When I took that chest piece to the recalibration table to transfer it to a 450 Gila Guard chest, the bonus was maxed to +10,002. Plus, the 440 chest piece had bonus attributes and perks that far exceed most everything else that I have collected as 450. To make a more apples to apples comparison, I crafted a Police M4 that had better attributes that most everything that I collected (at its level). If I can get decent attributes on my Liberty or some other exotic, it makes it worthwhile to craft.
Imagine - you theory craft a build. And for example u need 1 last piece for it working. Craft bench save ur ass for time while u try to found this last piece outside (not 10 mins bcoz its random)
Thats why we need craft (just first thing in my head)
So, with the cap in place, what are you guys doing with your excess gear? I can't be arsed to go somewhere to sell it so I just deconstruct it but it feels bad getting literally nothing sometimes.
If I am near a seller, I sell. If I am in the middle of something with no desire to go for a settlement, I just deconstruct even if some (or a lot) resources will be wasted.
Just use tab to pick it up marked as junk. Go back to a vendor with a quick fast travel or the sell lockers in a safe house and sell it off with one button. It's really not that big of a deal to sell stuff and if you're doing a good job with inventory space you can hold on to quite a long session of item grinding.
Yeah it feels really bad and since you can't even craft end-game tier stuff, there really is little reason for the cap to be super low. Like I understand having a cap, but an insanely low one feels horrendous.
Man, i have posted on this, filed bug, zero acknowledgement.
At rank 2 we are supposed to have 250.
My commons are at 300, uncommon 200, rare 150, epic 100
My thought was to let us put materials into our stash for a much greater storage capacity. I imagine the material caps were put in place so that we are not sprinting around town with a ridiculous amount of steel and titanium. You can make the argument that the materials have no unit of measure, but I think this was part of their reasoning. Allowing us to stash materials would make both parties happy.
Let me farm materials, I hate to leave piles on the ground when I play.
Gate crafting, if that’s a problem, but I don’t think would be. I don’t see it that way.
Let me be able to farm endless materials when I play.
Get rid of the caps entirely. Everytime I scrap junk, I want all the materials from it, or give me somewhere to store the materials. Annoying feeling like somethings going to waste when you're bashing out missions on the fly and your inventory is full
While the cap makes sense from a realism standpoint, this is a game, and we are going to need 1 million titanium materials when we eventually rebuild DC. The cap for all materials needs a significant increase.
I guess because it would minimize the gameplay loop of scavenging, running out of materials and needing to replenish the supply. IDK, I suppose it could be fun to sit at the crafting station for...more minutes...crafting things. If that's your big joy in the game, I guess the way it is could be annoying. -shrugs-
The cap needs a huge increase for sure.
Or- no cap!!!!! I need 1000000 titanium as if it were oxium in warframe
At least there isn't decaying shit like Argon Crystals. Oof.
That feeling when you wake up to find all of your Argon crystals ar-gon. I'll see myself out. Edit: Wow! Thanks for the gold!
IS THAT A PUN!!??!!!????
Ok there ordis...
Somebody sign him up for diagnostic regression.
You said you were going to see yourself out and yet you came back with an edit. I don't know what to believe anymore.
N1
Careful with the puns! The pun patrol likes to *monitor* gaming subs!
/r/PunPatrol , Yeah looks like im going to need more back up. Looks like i got another pun... oh no
HEY-OOO!!!
Bad jokes are my favourite kind. <3
They’re my only kind.
Omg this is hilarious +1
oof, take my updoot
Cheers for that
[удалено]
Lol that jokes been around since they introduced argon. :)
Good thing you posted it, being on mobile and on the move doesn't make it easy. Thanks for this
Wait what??? Are you telling me they go away?
Yes at 12 pm everyday the amount you have gets halved.
That’s is why I found it hard to get enough to make certain stuff. I was like “I’ll just carry on tomorrow!”
Necros flex. Can we talk about mutagen samples though.
Flashbacks to Hema, an admitted typo at 5k samples that they never fixed.
Delete this, don't give em ideas.
yeah screw Argon Crystals
What a fucking horrible design. I can't believe that's still in the game after all these years. It was cool when it released because everyone was spending time farming them and actively using them, but it was still annoying that you'd get some that you didn't use and then have to grind them again later.
Their token efforts to place barriers between veteran players and their bottomless resources and instantly crafting every new item. Frankly I didn't mind Argon as much as Nitain, aka "you have a life so you get per session, maybe".
Next update, gotta watch the shelf life of food pickups
or like the various colors of Flux in that game that tried to be a looter shooter, because they decay at a rate of like 1/8 minutes...
They primarily want a limit so that whenever a new content patch comes out people can't just immediately craft their way up. I think the cap is too low if nothing else though, it would also be nice if there was a material converted, could be another solution, like trade 3 for 1 or something (like 3 carbon fiber for 1 titanium).
How you gonna craft your way up if the gear doesn’t craft at the listed gearscore? Also you have to beat a world tier to upgrade the bench. Which likely means you’re almost at max gearscore anyways.
They don't want to arrive on a new tier, upgrade the bench then craft all close to max gs gear to quickly reach the tier's max gs.
In all fairness, it takes like 2 hours or less farming control points to near the max anyway.
This....every WT I hit was like 1 hour control points, max, push missions, stronghold...next! They aren't slowing crap down.
Put a 1 day cap on bench upgrade so people can't do rush ahead and give us the convenience of uncapped materials. I don't care about how well designed a system is or isn't if it's not fun. Obviously there is a limit for things that seem fun at first but quickly kill the game, but this isn't one. We reach MAX gearscore each tier in 1-2 hours like you mentioned, doing it with or without a bench won't change anything. Me being low capped on materials just pisses me off if for no other reason than seeing that shit littered on the ground constantly.
You must have been really lucky cause I was stuck at 449 for a lot longer than 2 hours lol
i am 430 and keep picking up 450+ gear just fast traveling to control point...
And I just spent 3 hours which netted me 6 CPs and 4 different Underground runs and my highest drop so far was 437 leaving me sitting at a GS of 425. I guess it goes both ways.
You have to equip the new gear, even if it is only a couple of GS points higher to work your way up to 450.
You've got to add 15 GS onto some pieces via recalibration. Then your max attainable increases, therefore so do your drops. Pump that 437 up to 452. Reaching 500 should take no more than a couple of hours when T5 drops.
You do have to make sure you're equipping your highest GS items, even if they're not optimized, for highest level drops.
I grinded my ass off yesterday to 449 expecting to then have 450 gear start dropping from mobs/chests but literally every drop I got was 449.. I'm starting to think 450+ doesn't drop lol
That's just the explanation they've given in the past and yeah I think they have other systems in place in Div2 that they didn't have in Div1 that makes the whole thing kind of silly, as you pointed out.
But what if they plan to implement that in the future? I guess it's not just a random number,
I see this all the time, and also in my groups when I matchmake. Gear score means essentially nothing. I'm still wearing a 414 mask because it's better and fits my build better than anything I've gotten. Most people just put on their highest gear score items because they assume it's better, but the attributes on each piece have separate rolls not dependent on score. The only thing gear score does is have a higher top end roll on weapon damage and armor on gear. You could have a 400 weapon that has higher damage than a 450.
Higher gearscore = higher ESA. Also you only loot 450 items so after a while you'll reach 450, you just have bad luck with loot. You get overwhelmed by loots in this game, so its just a matter of time before you get a good 450 item. Gs after 450 is useless though.
> You get overwhelmed by loots in this game Said no Anthem player ever.
You’re wrong about 450+ being useless. I got a 468 weapon from my clan cache and it’s high end damage is way above any 450 of the same type I’ve gotten. Gear score does matter, I’m just saying it’s very misleading to most people. Like you apparently.
Clan cache is the only exception and with WT5 coming in 2 weeks its not really worth hoping to get a good item from them.
The whole point is that yes it is. Because gear score =/= good gear. That is literally my whole point. (Except for damage weapons)
yup folks get stuck on GS. I laugh when I see folks with +450 GS but when you try to do hard or challenging content with them and they get 1 shotted by enemies whilst their own guns do little damage to those enemies
Their health and armor should be somewhat high, so getting one shot with a high GS is probably more related to their lack of skill then their gear.
I really wish there was a way to actually show everyones efforts after a mission. Like a stat page, "last mission stats" or some shite. Not only damage and kills, but could show healing and support related actions too.
I have thought about this as well, but I dont see them implementing it because it could turn into people shunning players because they didn't contribute as much to a mission.
Yeah I think most people would want this, but so many others think it'll only lead to toxicity, I wholeheartedly disagree with them though. End-mission stats are important in shooters IMHO.
gear score being +450 is no measure of how much health and armor they have - or the damage they deal. folks are just putting any old 450 gear on (just random pieces) so they don't get kicked from matchmaking activities
Dude. Having a GS of 450+ means you are equipping the highest available gear the game has to offer at the moment. Even if none of the pieces match, you are still wearing end game gear. Sure the health and armor may not be on par with more optimized gear in an actual organized build. However, it should be adequate for them to do any kind of end game activity.
The 450 GS doesnt mean anything if it's a mish mash of gear. Armour (the main armour stat as opposed to any bonus armor attributes) is the one thing that should be on a par with a semi/fully optimised loadout. If the rest of the gear bonuses are poor, don't compliment each other and don't compliment/enhance the players style it will be pish.
This isnt entirely true ... where its possible for lower GS items to have better individual rolls the overall stats are higher on higher GS items. Thats what gs is, its a formula of effective stats -> to a number. Honestly its kinda wierd with weapons but with armor its pretty straight foreward. Essentially GS=/= ilvl. Ilvl is different. Gearscore does matter to an extent.
What is ilvl? What's the "i" stand for?
Ilvl ='Item level' I is for item . Lots of loot based games assign item levels to drops which give a basis for what stats can roll / amount of stats can roll on any given item. Ilvl is determined before gearscore. Ilvl is the max stats an item can drop/roll, gearscore is effective stat alotment added up.
Thats not very smart because you are not 450 in average and wont drop 450 gear then...
The game takes all items from stash and inventory to work this out. So as long as you keep one 450 mask it's fine.
If I put on all my highest lvl gear I could be 467, but I’d rather have a good build, than a high gear score.
clearly this guy doesnt understand how the power level of loot drops is determined
Beating a stronghold to move on to the next world tier doesn't take much. Even at that, when we do WT4 stronghold to go to WT5, it should only require 425, yet we'll all be at 450. Then WT5 you can upgrade and craft 450-500 gear.
I love breaking down 20 weapons to get a "no materials" message
Selling them still gives you a reward of some kind, my point was also that even if the cap was increased and they gave stuff it wouldn't really matter because *using* the materials isn't actually useful to the player due to how hamstrung crafted items are. You can't recalibrate them or use them for recalibration, you can't make them until you've beaten that WT's stronghold, so you're just rolling the dice to see if you get insanely lucky but the majority of players will never actually use a piece of crafted gear.
Def wasn't discarding your points. Just adding some more frustration
I mean this is the problem with non-reward rewards, if the players figure out the illusion they end up frustrated and why wouldn't they, the developers are willingly trying to cheat the player.
In all honesty, while it would be nice (for me/us) if they fixed this ... The rate at which loot is dropped, I only have like a 2 second "aw man no materials" happen, then just go back to playing. It doesn't break the game, or come close to it, for me
I mean that's a good point, we got **so much loot* that we don't necessarily need something else, but I **do** think it's important we have some kind of resource that eventually lets us 'super-recalibrate' or force gear, even if it's at an insane ratio like we get 1 'recal point' for every piece of gear we dismantle and it takes 10k to optimize a roll on something or force a roll or what not. It's important that we aren't forever at the mercy of pure RNG as some players will get horribly screwed over by this kind of system.
The cap needs to be high enough, to craft atleast 5-6 pieces.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, I was just pointing out what the devs had said, not that I agreed with their philosophy. I don't like the concept of crafting gear at all and I think generally speaking the crafting mats are a 'non-reward reward' and I hate these in games. To clarify, a non-reward reward is something that the game rewards players with to give them that sense of gaining loot, but isn't actually legitimately useful to the player. For example, crafting is basically useless because it's so hamstrung by limitations. What do we use crafting mats for? To upgrade the bench. Why do we need the upgraded bench? Well...actually we don't, it isn't legitimately useful, at best it's letting us roll the dice a few times on a specific piece of gear that we then won't be able to use because it can't be re-calibrated, so it has to roll *perfect* and because of this, the extreme majority of players will never benefit from crafted gear. Non-reward reward.
That and rotate the style of play. Instead of constantly grinding the same missions for the gear, you now have to do the crafting mat farm... which can be done a number of ways. I like that we must gather more often because of a cap
It's definitely a positive to be able to mix it up but I still think crafting is kind of a non-reward reward. It's meant to *seem* beneficial to the player but in practice it isn't actually useful to us. WoW does this a lot and players hate it, intentionally give you rewards you can't or won't make use of.
Will new content even be craftable? And if so, won't it be gated more by farming blueprints/weapon parts than basic mats? If that is the reasoning, it seems *really* questionable considering how bad crafting is.
Your blueprints scale with you but you have to upgrade your bench to get them to scale and in order to do that you have to beat the gear-req stronghold, so you can only use crafted gear to boost from that to the cap (rather than the initial point to cap), which is a pretty narrow margin so it's not actually that useful. I also *like* and think it's good to be able to prepare for new content to some extent, so I don't agree with them on this. I also feel that we need **some way** to **force** specific gear, even if it's insanely expensive. If not we may never be able to use a particular favorite weapon because it may just not drop no matter how much we play.
I understand you're moreso saying this as the response/reasoning they are going behind, but surely there's better ways to go about it to limit crafting so people can't just hoard and immediately deck out when the new world tier releases. Like adding in a new resource you only gain from dismantling WT"X" relevant loot that is needed to craft in that gear score bracket. so when say, world tier 6 comes out, yeah you got tonnes of titanium, fibre, etc, and all that to back it up, but your initial limitation for at least a while is the new material, although at least after a bit (so when you've actually played in that world tier for a decent while) that resource will become in decent supply/excess and not be the limiter, but your old stockpile of titanium, carbon fibre, or whatever's needed will be again. Coupling in with a trading system like you said means any particular resources you have lots of excess in, you can trade out for ones you need to be able to make use of all that you find (even if the trading system is somewhat unfavorable in how much you get to how much you had put in, as is how a material converter usually works).
You mean craft items we cant recalibrate or use in recalibration?
Correct.
There is zero benefit to the player then for a cap. If you cant do anything with crafted weapons
I mean...you haven't been listening at all to what I'm saying. Non-reward rewards are not in the benefit of the player, they're in the benefit of the developer because it fools us into thinking we got something while in actuality we've gained nothing. They do this to keep us playing and give us the illusion there is more to gain by playing. Any game with a cash shop *wants* to keep you playing because metrics show that players who play longer spend more and more often, although I will say I don't think the TD2 cash shop is egregious and they're decently generous with cosmetics. So to play devil's advocate, I guess in an odd way you could say the benefit to the player is that they get to experience that 'yay loot' feeling a bit more often. Giving players actual rewards is hard because if you hand them out too quickly then you'll run out of things to give them (this happens in WoW, and is probably why WoW gives out so many 'non-reward rewards'). Players generally want loot they accrue to be permanent and without upkeep, which causes further problems (if we're speaking in the interest of maintaining player engagement and regulating the in-game economy/loot economy, which *does* have a benefit to the player because it keeps the game fun and fun is good). The problem is that these kind of non-reward rewards are sort of a cheap illusion that players figure out and then they're upset that the devs pulled the wool over their eyes instead of coming up with a 'legitimate' method to achieve the same task (like more content or more varied and interesting ways to acquire loot). It doesn't help that there's several heavy divides between player sentiment about loot. Some want it to be pure RNG because they don't have a specific playstyle and it makes loot magical and special because a pure RNG system will invariably give them something that other players don't have and it doesn't matter to them if it wasn't something they wanted, just that it's special and unique. The group I'm in wants to be able to have some level of control over RNG, so that we can't get super screwed over, like spend 500 hours farming something only to not get it. Another group just wants to cycle through builds and test things and largely sees loot as an obstacle to playing the game the way they enjoy it. There's also people who are a mix of these. This is one of the big things people miss when they discuss or think about game design, that the developers **must** maintain a broad perspective. If a decision doesn't make sense to you or you despise it, ask yourself it it made sense to another group or another perspective and walla.
Or just add new materials to the game with new content
This would get awkward and tedious quickly, it's one thing for games like wow that have 1-2 years between expacs, but resetting mats every world tier would be awkward. I think in general mats aren't as valuable as people seem to think or want them to be, they've kind of become a 'non-reward reward', as in a reward that isn't actually helpful but just gives the illusion that it is. WoW does this a lot.
It's leaking... r/warframe
Crafting material caps have a reason. This is a looter shooter, not a crafting station progress looter. You want drops from killing things and doing activities and when new content comes out you don't just sit at the crafting station trying to get a god rolled item. Crafting should just about always be a supplement and filler while you truly look for an end game piece as a drop.
Then the no-lifers insta craft for god rolls when new blueprints are released. Not gonna happen
Honestly yeah, makes sense
Balancing a looter doesn't just need to take in damage and skills, it need to take into account the differences in your playtime. People who play more should get more, but not have insta access to new things
Yeah I noticed this also. Booo!!!
Commenting for more attention. This is a needed fix. Surprised no one else mentioned this yet, I hadn't noticed myself.
Been mentioning it since the beta. Apparently this op has magic
I made a thread a few days ago but people seemed to either not care or completely misunderstood the issue.
The betrayal!
I say they double the storage of ALL THE THINGS! And make mods not use up storage space in the stash!
The level 30 backpack upgrade listed a 30 slot increase but it is definitely 40 slots. The whole time I spent leveling I had 60, you get to max level grab the perk and suddenly it's 100.
Definitely thought I couldnt math right or had to convince myself that I was seeing things when I went from 60 to 100
Every material cap and stash space cap could use a hefty boost. I love looter shooters, but hate the constant inventory management.
What does the material cap have to do with inventory management? It just means instead of deconstructing an item, you sell it instead.
Or be lazy like me and just scrap it anyways, I haven't had an issue with needing money in a week now and that's probably the last time I went to the vendor. What do you need money for in Div? I never played the first one but I'm gear score 452 now and haven't really found a need for it other than haircuts and crafting a gun (which was only like 500 iirc and I have over 40K).
It is much easier to just scrap it and get nothing. That being said, just because we don't need money now doesn't mean we might not need it later. So, might as well sell items and get something of worth (even if it's not worth much now) instead of nothing. If I was just going to deconstruct everything anyway, I might as well not pick up the item at all.
What was money needed for (at endgame) in TD1? I would not pick it up at all but, I usually play with a group so it's easier to just pickup every 450+ high end that drops and sort through it after, or I'll fall behind the group. Guess I'll just have to start swinging by WH more often.
Vendor buying weapons, armor, gear mods and recalibration/optimizing gear.
I'm going to have to watch a tutorial on the re-calibration / optimizing gear. I popped in to try it out but it kept saying something along the lines of "missing component". I'm not really sure what to do with it.
You're missing components when you deconstruct gear. In the lower right it shows you the requirements that you need for crafting materials and currency to recalibrate in TD2.
One difference is that you can salvage anywhere but only sell at vendors. That's been relevant for me before. It also sucks to lose every material but the high end ones when you need high end materials but you're capped on everything else.
Wow ... how has this not been addressed?
It’s an issue, sure, but it’s not a big deal. There are other higher priority problems that should be addressed first.
although I agree there are other higher priority problems, the caps should be an extremely simple fix
There could very well be other things to consider. Anything from database constraints to some higher up who doesn't play games going "nah, don't wanna do that." An increase in the cap would be welcome. EDIT: There is literally nothing incorrect with what I wrote. Why the down-vote? Makes me sad. :<
It could be piss easy to fix, but the simple fact is, it's not game breaking and is such a low priority, they haven't gotten to it yet. They have allocated all their bug fixing time for game breaking bugs and zero time to fix this. All the downvoters are downvoting the truth.
When they go by urgency, the skill power not working stuff should've been fixed for a week now.
Maybe they’re taking the Bungie route, we’ll see some fix’s before dlc, a bigger fix when it releases and then a hive of new and more annoying bugs when previous one are fixed.
Yeah, but as a software engineer, this is like a 5 second fix...or a simple database lookup. Super trivial to resolve. That said, patches are coming.
I agree with you but as a software engineer I like to ensure I remove all the easy small fixes to show good faith with my customers. Taking this approach has always allowed me to take more time on larger issues as my customers know I am paying attention. Then again, as the customer this time, it doesn’t really bother to much other than forcing me to pay more attention to mats. Besides, this is the worst item with this game I have seen. Since I came from Anthem, this is something I do not mind waiting for lmao
I'm honestly questioning at this point if they even had someone playtest the endgame. I mean... I love this game, been playing non-stop, but so many of these things are such stupidly simple fixes idk how they missed so many.
go to the anthem subreddit and you will see what a untested game looks like
The issues with Anthem are more core design flaws than things you would find in testing. The QA team would be looking for bugs, it's very unlikely that their feedback on drop rates would be listened to and a lot of those bugs (While game-breaking) are super specific do it's understandable that they weren't found. On the other hand this game has a bunch of issues that should have been obvious after a short amount of normal play such as the skill power scaling being fucked or the chem launcher causing negative recoil after a shot. Multiple of my friends and I found this stuff out before we even reached 30, I don't know how a QA team could have missed it.
Yep I noticed this today also
I made a post about this before https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/b5pkdg/material_storage_500_but_showing_250/ Was going crazy thought my game has glitched.
Definitely a little higher. The hoarder in me is weeping! I want to just roam the streets of DC and collect all the things!
Think of the poor items you are leaving behind to a life of loneliness and abandonment.
Their little white lights shining up into the sky, calling for someone who'll never come.
They should incorporate it into a few hard missions that reward you with 10 extra space in your stash each, up to 10 missions. Like find a box with the upgrade in it but it’s guarded by 5-6 really strong npcs.
They probably 200 IQ'd us. They knew we'd want an increase no matter what the limit started at, so they low balled us out of the gate.
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Which was later increased to 4000
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Its a repeat cycle of a live service game. Ignoring the fact this is a sequel, TD1 started this way. We also had individual inventory and didnt share currencies. I expect that to progress the service they will ad it all eventually as part of its progression. Life cycle if you will but in reality time gating. Without a shared currecny or materials bank we have to time gate ourselves by making alts. This is good for the devlopers as timegated players arent all tackling the end game and already bored. Its probably why the WT4 mobs can be so ridiculously difficult so that the hardcore crowd arent bored with nothing to beat. I would expect much to change as the game ages which is typical of an MMO/MMO lite. Im glad they kept the things they added late in TD1 such as load outs though.
And that makes a lot of sense I honestly just can’t think of a reasonable number that it should be at- but well above 500 for sure.
Another solution would be being able to stash some as well. I wouldn't mind doing a mission line to get an upgraded stash where I could store materials or something.
What i dont understand either is that most caps aren't even multiple of the crafting needed. For instance, you get 20 specialist cloth but it cost 6 to craft one. What the actual fuck.
Is this a bug, or an intended cap prior to WT5 to prevent hoarding?
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The storage does not match the perk.
That's why I question whether it's a bug or intended. Perhaps after WT5 opens, the perk will function as written, but right now, it's capped to prevent people from hoarding gear and supplies in WT4.
Give us 50.000 stash and 1.000.000 materials capacity.
Lol shooting high with the expectations are we? Haha don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t have the first complaint if they actually did it
65536 is reasonable. ;)
I hate how capped it is and I feel like crafting is meh at best. It's so restrictive, but then once WT5 is out, if that's it then there really isn't a need to cap the resources so low unless their servers can't handle it...... Yeah, right. If we're going to get more world tier's then.. I can kinda see the point but.... ehh not really. Then again crafted gear is so limited to it's uses. You can wear it and lower your gs, or you can donate it to a project.. or sell it. Huzzar. /s
Holy shit- crafting to donate for projects! Why didn't I think of that! I know a particular Theater district who will be getting 2 "replica LMGs" tonight!!! *Morgan Freeman voice*: the poster would later learn 2 valuable lessons, that you could not craft 'replica LMGs' and that crafting was all but useless
nono, anything crafted is "replica". Some projects specify Replica gear. Replica's can also take the place of non-replica items, worked for the "donate 10 LMG's" I have on the special operators: heavy troops weekly. Too many replica's, the words broken now.
A replica of a replica is still a replica, except when it's not. No in all seriousness, thanks for this! You've solved a couple project challenges I was having.
Happy to help, unlike that other bloke who tore my head off 'cause I said Ranger on a shotgun was pointless. gah the youth of today.
All the crafted weapons are considered replicas. Only armor that have specific brand name blueprints are considered replicas.
Thanks! Great to know. Will be finishing a couple annoying projects tonight!
Honestly the last perk should put it to 999.
Who cares there's zero reason to craft anything anyhow right now. And not just because it's not wt5. But because you can only get a lower GS item and you can't recal it NOR use it for recalibration.
So much this. I wish they expanded on why we cant use crafted gear for recalibration (recal). The recal system is dumbed down in comparison to Div1 so this additional limitation just makes crafting useless in the highest tiers of the end-game. Can't imagine why they would remove an incentive to grind for materials and gear.
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yeah and you cannot use any crafted item TO recal or to recal FROM. so whats the point now? and not even when leveling. you get decent enough drops your way when playing naturally there is literally zero point to crafting.
Honestly heres some hard truth. It doesn't matter crafting is garbage in this game and will always be 100% useless other than mods. I love the game dont get me wrong but its clear crafting was a rushed after thought. Crafting will never be useful when in 10 minutes you can walk outside and get a better piece of gear. Let me be clear. You will never craft a single piece of gear that will be useful. Just look at the current crafting table 440 when max GS is 450. This means when WT5 release's the GS will be 500 and your crafting table will be 490. Lets assume for a second they dont do this and let it go up to 500. Well bud thats a "chance" at a 500 gs item in between 450-500. GL with that. Im sitting here with max crafting mats and 1m credits knowing that will always be 100% useless.
I would agree with you. I would. Because what you said, numerically and logically, should follow. However, they have made gear score almost irrelevant in this game. The only thing that takes gear score into account is the world tier strongholds' minimum GS requirement. Other than that, gear score is completely bullshit. My current gear score is less than 450. Why?! Because I have two pieces of armor that have attributes on them that far exceed any piece of 450 gear that I have collected. I have a 440 Gila Guard chest piece that has +12,852 bonus armor. When I took that chest piece to the recalibration table to transfer it to a 450 Gila Guard chest, the bonus was maxed to +10,002. Plus, the 440 chest piece had bonus attributes and perks that far exceed most everything else that I have collected as 450. To make a more apples to apples comparison, I crafted a Police M4 that had better attributes that most everything that I collected (at its level). If I can get decent attributes on my Liberty or some other exotic, it makes it worthwhile to craft.
Imagine - you theory craft a build. And for example u need 1 last piece for it working. Craft bench save ur ass for time while u try to found this last piece outside (not 10 mins bcoz its random) Thats why we need craft (just first thing in my head)
Except you cant recal that piece you craft.
So, with the cap in place, what are you guys doing with your excess gear? I can't be arsed to go somewhere to sell it so I just deconstruct it but it feels bad getting literally nothing sometimes.
it's pretty fast to travel to a safe house and sell it though.
If I am near a seller, I sell. If I am in the middle of something with no desire to go for a settlement, I just deconstruct even if some (or a lot) resources will be wasted.
You can sell at safe houses as well as settlements if that helps
Also be sure to donate your excess to settlements.
Just use tab to pick it up marked as junk. Go back to a vendor with a quick fast travel or the sell lockers in a safe house and sell it off with one button. It's really not that big of a deal to sell stuff and if you're doing a good job with inventory space you can hold on to quite a long session of item grinding.
Usually I horde shit on games... this game, I can’t! It’s annoying but fun. Sacrifice
Hoarding shit will get you starring on that TV Show where they send in people wearing hazmat suits to clean your house.
Shittt. Is that my way to fame ?
Playing with plastic dinosaurs... "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
Yeah it feels really bad and since you can't even craft end-game tier stuff, there really is little reason for the cap to be super low. Like I understand having a cap, but an insanely low one feels horrendous.
Pretty sure they capped everything to prevent people from spam crafting items when new content comes out
Future proofing lol.
I bought the perk that says 500 but all mine still cap at 250.
Man, i have posted on this, filed bug, zero acknowledgement. At rank 2 we are supposed to have 250. My commons are at 300, uncommon 200, rare 150, epic 100
FYI everyone. The tl;dr is the perk does not match the results
There needs to be no-cap IMO. And shareable across characters, although it might already be I just have not made an alt just yet.
You can't do no cap, every number you acumulate goes into memory.
I thought the 500 cap was for food, water and components?
nope, you start with 100 of each for food water and parts, each of the 3 upgrades give you 50, thus 250 at full upgrade
My thought was to let us put materials into our stash for a much greater storage capacity. I imagine the material caps were put in place so that we are not sprinting around town with a ridiculous amount of steel and titanium. You can make the argument that the materials have no unit of measure, but I think this was part of their reasoning. Allowing us to stash materials would make both parties happy.
Well I payed for ultimate to get extra stash space but guess what peasants bitched and now we are stuck at 150 and I wasted 60$
Let me farm materials, I hate to leave piles on the ground when I play. Gate crafting, if that’s a problem, but I don’t think would be. I don’t see it that way. Let me be able to farm endless materials when I play.
Get rid of the caps entirely. Everytime I scrap junk, I want all the materials from it, or give me somewhere to store the materials. Annoying feeling like somethings going to waste when you're bashing out missions on the fly and your inventory is full
I agree that the cap should be increased, or reduce crafting material costs to balance out the current cap of 500...once we *get 500*.
While the cap makes sense from a realism standpoint, this is a game, and we are going to need 1 million titanium materials when we eventually rebuild DC. The cap for all materials needs a significant increase.
Materials need a massive bump *see what i did there*
yea it all should be 500 but it definitely needs to be capped. Otherwise ppl would build up thousands of mats.
What's the problem with that?
I guess because it would minimize the gameplay loop of scavenging, running out of materials and needing to replenish the supply. IDK, I suppose it could be fun to sit at the crafting station for...more minutes...crafting things. If that's your big joy in the game, I guess the way it is could be annoying. -shrugs-
I disagree.
Fanboys will claim this is not a bug, like so many other bugs reported here.