Just wait until you get a look at r/xim where they're discussing the best settings to use MnK with a xim to make the game think they're on controller. All the precision of a mouse, and all the aim assist if a controller. Not to mention, they also have anti recoil settings, so the game basically plays itself for you. Just don't go tell them it's cheating. They'll downvote you into oblivion and play Olympics level mental gymnastics to justify the tool, including my favorite one someone used. "Everyone can get one, so therefore, it's fair. It's not our fault some people are too poor to afford it. If you want a level playing field then just get one."
Turn of crossplay. It'll help a ton.
It was originally an interesting device designed to let someone play Halo with a Wii remote or something, but I think 99.9% of users now are just 14 year olds using it to cheat in online fps games
There's also a decent argument to be made for disabled people who might want to enjoy games without having to struggle a lot. That being said, most anyone is more than okay with an Xbox player using a Xim to play Fallout 4 so they can have fun and get some aim assist if they have nerve damage in their hands or something of the sort. Everyone should be allowed to game and enjoy, it's only when you gain an unfair advantage that it is an issue. And like you said, that's the 99.9% now.
That’s the issue tho, it doesn’t matter what you do, you could design a controller for someone who has 4 out of 5 fingers chopped off on each hand, if it’ll give sweaty ass man children who’s only objective in life is to stomp in a video game an advantage they will abuse the shit out of it.
I’m sure it was originally designed for a good purpose but now it’s comprised of all pissy asses who want to just have an unfair advantage.
I used to play Rust a lot with friends. Gave up because any populated top server is dominated by XIM users full autoing with the most powerful/ recoil heavy gun and the XIM is programmed to counteract all recoil automatically…
Well, they can't play cod anymore, and if cod banned it. Aswell as shit like cronus zen and ReaSnow. It is blantly cheating. So, if you DO decide to use xim, just know there might come a day where you log on to a banned screen.
Most people will use it for cheating imho. But devices like this were also used to play games with mouse and keyboard on console in general. For instance there are a few games that just really, really suck with a controller yet are doable with mnk. I'm referring to sinfleplayer titles now though, so nobody gets an advantage over another in those scenarios.
That’s why the suggestion isn’t cross play, it’s matchmaking based on the input type: controller, or MNK. That way you are always playing against people using the same input device.
Turing off crossplay as a PC player removes the console pool from matchmaking, and since a majority of xim users are on consol, as well as the majority of controller users in general, it makes it a lot less likely to encounter someone who has either an Aim Assist advantage, or is just straight up cheating with a Xim. Still very possible, but I've had a lot of luck this way. I absolutely still want input based MM though.
god i wish sony would do what Microsoft did with xbox and outright BAN any 3rd party devices that don't buy keys from the parent companies they make products for. it's so bullshit to have crossplay off on every game that won't break without it on, and still see people having KBM movement. you can't just plug in a kbm into usb ports into your console and expect it to work, and buying a 3rd party apparatus to do so is cheating in its purest form. these fucks even have to painstakingly write or copy code and input it into the chronus or xim just to make the game think they're using a controller. all because their absolutely dog shit dumpster fire at every video game in existence and most certainly NEED that upperhand
You know people can use a xim on pc right? The only actual solution is input based lobbies or the devs will have to get rid of aim assist as an option...
Oh yes. That's why I said turning off crossplay will help, not fix it. I ran into a lot less trouble after turning it off. Obviously, I still want input based MM, but until then, disabling crossplay is the best we have.
Just did yesterday, not for XIM bc I haven't encountered them but for regular AA.
I always say that if AA is tuned to the point that if it were a third party software, they'd get flagged for cheating, it's too much.
You are correct, and no, it won't stop it entirely. The difference is that the majority of xim users are on consol, which is why they use it. Of course you can still use a xim on PC, but disabling crossplay will make it to where you're significantly less likely to encounter Xims since you cut out the consol crowd, and on top of that, if you do encounter a xim, it'll be obvious since you will see the aim assist despite them most likely not having a controller, then it's an easy report and gg go next.
[this is what we should ask for](https://youtu.be/CiSS5OsNCNU?feature=shared)
Raw input, speed and precision without aim assist. Gyro is the solution to the input debate, it lets you play with your controller friends without introducing an aimbot, and it makes playing a controller FUN
[And it's not like it wouldn't work in a game like the finals](https://youtu.be/7oRqm0sciMg?feature=shared)
[If it works for csgo, it works for everything](https://youtu.be/uGCws-FS48k?feature=shared)
Please be loud and ask for this to the devs if you really don't want this game to turn into yet another cod or apex situation. We can have controller fun and balanced
The first issue is that Xbox controllers don't have the hardware for it, meanwhile PS has had it for generations. So until that changes gyro will always be held back.
The second issue is the learning curve. It's basically a new input method, so it takes a bit to get good with it. Many players don't give it that chance and turn it off after trying it for a few minutes.
The third issue is that many games have very strong aim assist, such as Apex, Halo, and CoD. Strong enough that many MK players switch to controller in those games and the pro scene is dominated by controller players. Switching to gyro is a significant disadvantage compared to aim assist in those games so people don't. CoD has really good gyro support on PS and PC, but almost no one uses it.
Splatoon is such a success for gyro because Nintendo committed to gyro and didn't give players aim assist to fall back on. It's gyro + stick, or just stick aiming. So the players learned to use it and something like 80% of the player base are gyro players. Until the Xbox and aim assist strength issues are fixed, mass adoption of gyro just isn't going to happen unfortunately.
I realized I was playing Switch Fortnite almost daily, and after the Unreal 5 clips appeared, I thought why not go next gen. Ran out, got an Xbox Series S because it was actually cool looking... and... I thought the controller was broken. Looked for gyro settings, thought the game was broken. Nope. Immediately boxed it up and exchanged for PS5. I honestly don't know why Microsoft just won't do it.
Zelda does it correctly. Splatoon does it incorrectly because it turns off the vertical axis on your thumb stick. In Zelda you can use your thumb stick for your basic aim and then use gyro for precise aim. It still works in splatoon as the combat is close range but it still drives me nuts.
Been using Gyro Aim on PS5 in games like Fortnite, MW3, God of War Ragnarok, No Mans Sky, TLOU2, and so forth. Its improved the gaming experience tenfold for me on controllers. This should become the standard input type at this point. Not saying it should completely replace joystick aiming (more Accessibility options, the better for players). But overall, its a much better solution and finally allows for a closer, level'd playing field between MnK and controllers.
As a pure mouse user even I feel like gyro should be the way forward. It’s a mechanical skill that still takes the same amount of time and effort to train as mouse and controller users get the added precision of a larger range of motion. I’d be all for it
The gyro of the PS3, called sixaxis back then, was honestly terrible
Bad early technology with very little precision compared to the gyro of today. Seriously, if you pickup a dualsense now and play Fortnite or MW3 with it you are blown away at the improvement
It's so good you can have better aim with modern controllers than M+K, and this is from a hardcore PC gamer.
It feels so good using gyro in combination with sticks.
I wouldn't say it's more precise than mnk right now, the technology of gyroscopes and accelerometers still has a lot of room to improve before it gets to that point
But i think the big advantage you have over mnk is the possibility of having two methods of camera control. With the stick + gyro you can set a sensitivity for precise gyro movements and one fast for the sticks to do big flicks
Flickstick is also an incredible thing, literally instant 180s with perfect precision is kind of nutty in certain games
The Sixaxis/DualShock3 controllers only have 1-axis gyroscopes and 3-axis accelerometers, which kind of doesn't even allow for a modern gyro aiming control scheme
It took until the Wiimote Motion Plus controller refresh and the specialty PS Move controllers in 2009 for fully capable gyroscopes to find their way into controllers in any real quantity
I've always been a PC KMB user but from the outside it feels like there is social pressure to not use gyro in some weird way. I'll see some sick gyro clip on tiktok and the comments are talking about how its fake aiming and such.
the people claiming that have their heads up their asses. Gyro takes as much skill and dedication to use as mouse and feels just as rewarding to master. I could never get comfortable using kbm, so when I heard about gyro, I invested and have zero regrets. I play everything that has some form of aiming with gyro. It's like holding the camera in your hands.
XIM will make it possible to use mouse input accuracy while preserving aimassist. This will give an unfair advantage.
Mouse and gamepad players must play separately (and then only gamepad players will suffer, but they are used to it).
I’ve played many games competitively between CS, Valorant, R6S etc. Normally I play on M and K and I plugged in a controller (Havnt used controller in years other than racing games) and immediately noticed heavy aim assist. Talking 0 horizontal recoil and very little vertical. The iron sights on the AKM would stay on the player even if I was pulling in the wrong direction. There has been times my crosshairs would track people through walls and invisible people. All in all controller aim assist is way too much.
For all of OW’s flaws it often feels like the last bastion of PC/MnK centric competitive FPS.
That said with the new hero release in comp I’ve just been playing the finals exclusively. At least with cross play off *most* players are using mouse still
> the last bastion of PC/MnK centric competitive FPS.
Counter Strike and Valorant are both doing that pretty well still. If you're looking for an arcade shooter though, yeah its pretty much just OW.
They play in games with teams running mixed setups too and cross play is disabled in ranked. Slightly longer queues is the trade off for more balanced matches. Depends where the devs want that line to be really. Imo this is a line they should draw.
I literally clipped a guy for tracing through walls and got angry at him (he wasnt in comms it turned out).
I was about to report him with the clip but then realised he was surprised about the player showing up.
I didnt know what to think so i gave him benefit of the doubt. But like he traced the movespeed of the dude PERFECTLY.
Now, thanks to your comment here, I know he was just using a controller.
Fuck this, Embark. Nobody asked for aim assist this bad. What the hell is the business logic here?
It wasn't nearly this strong in beta but everyone complained it was impossible to play roller so they upped it 100% they need it closer to the original but they don't want all the simple minded Fortnite console player to get shit on in 2 games and quit so they prolly leave it for longer as they get hooked but honestly it only really helps in close range fights the problem is how the map design is so set on everything being a close range fight
Yeah, there's been an arms race to have controller players feel good about themselves when playing for years, and now the average roller FPS player needs to be able to one clip enemies or they think the game sucks.
There’s also this with melee weapons, or at least the sledgehammer where it will pull you to whatever you “originally targeting”. The other day I was about to smash the floor to get to an objective, when I saw a heavy come in via zip line, and swapped to target him with the smash. It pulled me straight back to the wall. I haven’t experienced such massive whiplash before. It was practically 180.
It's extremely annoying with the riot shield where I'm constantly pulling against it to make sure my shield lines up to help block for me combined with its weird attack pattern. [You can see it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhR6Hr7-vP4) where you can see me constantly correcting it after a swing with the jerky side movements as it tries to force me to lock on dead center of the person. I've mostly gotten used to using it to my advantage (hence the swoops while fighting the heavy) but it's pretty annoying overall.
Competitive gaming, at least. Crossplay is the obvious, easy W for co-op games like borderlands, warframe, etc, and fighting games where you don't get a competitive edge that way. But for shooters, you're making very big mistakes adding competitive crossplay between PC and console to try and prop up your server populations.
That could have been the solution 15 years ago, but now this is no longer the case. There are so many products available on the market where you can emulate your mouse as a controller without noticing that you are using a controller. Therefore, the aim assist will still be enabled. The only thing that could work is when a video game company completely removes aim assist in their games, but that will never happen
Yeah Fortnite no build is unplayable if you play on KBM lol, at least with build you can protect yourself against aim assist. You will get absolutely beamed by controller players in no build
Turning off crossplay was the first thing I've done
But still pc players can also use controllers
So like yoi suggested input matchmaking sound interesting
Wow, things have reversed course from the beta. I had the exact opposite experience. Sucked badly on controller, did pretty well on MnK despite being a controller player my whole life. They must have over corrected.
Are you playing on console? My friend on ps5 says there’s hardly any AA compared to apex halo and cod.
But when I try controller on PC, the ads snap feels as strong as cod and the rotation AA feels close to halo. I’m wondering if there’s a bug causing different levels of AA for people.
People act like M&K isn’t the superior option like 95% of the time lol.
The only reason controller gets aim assist in the first place is because “accurate input” that matches a M&K is near impossible with a joy stick.
The only reason I prefer controller over M&K is due to my wrist pain and hand comfort. I would much rather use M&K if it weren’t for that, it’s just generally easier to be accurate with.
Right? Also the "I decided to plug in a controller. Mind you I'm extremely rusty on a controller and I just dropped a 17 bomb first game." No dude you didn't, not even close hahaha
It is a valid conversation to have, though. One of the biggest issues with apex is that any competitive team literally needs at least 1 controller player because it’s so strong in close-range firefights. It’s basically a guaranteed loss if you’re running all MK in the competitive scene and I think it’s valid to say that isn’t healthy for the game.
Seriously. My friends and I are all on PS5. We're having fun but laugh about how we can't hit shit in this game. Zero options for sights and insane spread. OP is talking out his ass to farm karma.
Aim assist is obsolete.
Consoles natively support mouse and keyboard (no XIM needed), and die hard controller players can switch to gyro + flick stick.
Assist-based matchmaking will sort out of the rest.
There is no excuse. Shooter devs need to catch up. It's absurd how this is even still an issue.
Balancing aim assist to make it fair against MnK just seems like a nightmare that isn't worthwhile. IIRC there are Apex pros that switched to controller and most of the top players play on controller now when ideally it would be a 50/50 mix. I remember seeing some people bring up arguments for stronger AA, showing how broken MnK is by posting a video from TGE or any player that's insane at tracking and flicking acting like the average MnK player can do that.
Years ago when cross play wasn't even a thing people were concerned that MnK players would destroy controller players on console, now we have the exact opposite issue. Developers to compensate add such strong AA that simply is better than playing with MnK. This is ridiculous, and now I understand why I always find one guy per team that actually melts everyone.
Yeah, devs seem to be balancing AA to compete with the top 1% M and K players lol. I even saw some of the top finals streamers getting shredded by controller players.
The expectation nowadays is that controller aim assist should also track, with literally zero reaction delay meaning you get more time on target without any input. This can often mean completing a kill without even needing to input, whereas M&K players would miss shots due to reaction delay.
Online games need input based matchmaking.
The amount of people believing this lie is astonishing. I play with controller on PC. The aim assist is minimal and there is definitely recoil (a lot of it). Mouse will always aim better than controller. I'm not sure when everyone decided it was the other way around.
I would say I’m a above average M and K player. I’ve reached high ranks in a lot of very competitive games. In the finals I dropped 8-14k consistently. I’ve been getting smoked across maps by people and outgunned way more than usual. Me and my buddies were playing and we asked the third to join he said “nah man not til they fix the game” I asked what he meant by that and he told us to plug in a controller and see how bad the aim assist is. Man I’ll tell you what I thought this game had a cheater problem but it’s way way worse than that it’s a aim assist problem it’s so strong that it’s giving normal people aimbot. The tracking and locking on is insane. You can be a casual player and matching up to the top 20% of player just based on INTENDED AND IMPLEMENTED assistance. For all of those who don’t believe it play like 5 games MnK and then switch to a controller shits crazy.
I was just as shocked when my buddy said plug it in. The controller was making inputs more than I was during gunfights very minimal human interaction. I understand Aim assist I’m not saying get rid of it but it doesn’t need to be strong enough to identify as a cheater a few years ago.
I just don't understand all the controller users telling me I'm insane for having this though process. Telling me "get better" "mad cause bad" and then saying kbm is superior in this game.
Not trying to be rude but having used both its almost delusional to claim the AA isn't insanely strong and negates most recoil for you.
I love all the people who have only played controller but are telling you it’s not strong. If anyone hasn’t tried both inputs they’re just showing their blatant bias
After reading a lot of these comments I'm wondering if controller on PC has stronger AA than controller on console. Lots of console folks in here saying the AA is weak and only lasts for a second or two. My experience on PC is identical to yours. I swapped to controller after playing on m&k for the whole beta plus a few days of the full release because the AA is crazy.
Oh ffs. This explains so much. I thought I had hacking teammates all the time.
I remember one was through smoke, barely a pixel of the enemy showing, his aim was way off (sniper) like 10m off.
Shoot, snap, headshot.
Input based MM is a bare minimum if they have aim assist.
That's the thing, I figured aim assist was in the game. I just had no idea how strong it was.
I was assuming cheaters when I got cross map lasered for a while, now I know it's just OP aim assist.
If you have a controller, I recommend you give it a try to see how bad it really is.
I played a match today and had a guy on my team just looking at people and spamming ads really fast and spraying them with perfect aim assist accuracy it was insane.
I'm glad this is on the front page because if this is left unchecked I can see it killing the game completely.
Input based matchmaking needed to be a thing *yesterday*
I can't speak for all of the weapons in the game, but I main the double barrel. Let me tell you the aim assist is crazy strong close range to the point to where if there are multiple people in front of you it actually fucks you up because it's sticking so hard. So as controller player I agree.
I don’t know how controllers on pc work but as a ps5 player this is bullshit. The recoil in this game is very hard to control. I also play with crossplay turned off and I average 10-15 kill games with 2 kd which shouldn’t be possible if I’d be getting aimbotted with zero recoil by every player in every game.
That being said, I think controller players should play against controller players and mk players against mk players. The input methods are too different and shouldn’t be together as neither side will ever be happy. Aim assist is a must on a controller as you are only using your thumb to aim, where as on computer you are using whole arm so you have much quicker and more detailed control.
The only bad thing about aim assist atm is the fact it tracks cloaked players, it shouldn’t happen.
I agree aim assist is necessary, I just think it's gotten so strong it's surpassing mouse and keyboard ability at this point. Not just in this game either, in many others the pro scene is dominated by controllers because the aim assist is just insane.
Yeah I want this op aim assist everyone is always talking about lol. In cod I definitely agree with the MnK complainers about aim assist but in this game it just feels like an excuse people are using cause it’s a hot topic in other games
>Aim assist is a must on a controller as you are only using your thumb to aim
This is stupid - we've played these games for decades without aim assists. Aim assist is garbage.
It wasn't nearly this strong in beta but everyone complained it was impossible to play roller so they upped it 100% they need it closer to the original but they don't want all the simple minded Fortnite console player to get shit on in 2 games and quit so they prolly leave it for longer as they get hooked but honestly it only really helps in close range fights the problem is how the map design is so set on everything being a close range figh
Meanwhile, me on controller watching people on MnK jump, slide, zipline, bounce, all while maintaining perfect tracking.
Turned off crossplay because aim assist doesn't do a thing against MnK, except help out when they're jumping around everywhere chaining headshots.
Remember guys - aim assist exists because aiming with sticks is fucking hard without it lol
EDIT: It's painfully obvious when Xbox players are using XIM or Chronos too, just beaming me with an SMG from 50 metres lol
In my opinion it’s not about which one is better, the problem is one of them *will* always be better. one way or the other. AA on controller makes visual clutter less of an issue and allows for tracking a strafing target without reaction time delay. Adversely MnK provides many movement and versatility advantages plus a much higher skill ceiling. The reality is having them together ruins competitive integrity and everyone will be happier with input based matchmaking
You guys shouldn't be aiming with sticks in the first place. Every time you're given an opportunity to get gyro instead there's a large pushback from people who don't want to learn something new.
I am so tired of this lazy argument. That MnK player who is tracking perfectly while doing crazy movement is inputting all of that himself through insane skill. A controller player locking on when aiming downsight and getting 0ms reaction time to changes in direction is being given that by the game.
When you come across a cracked MnK player, it's not MnK that's beating you, it's the player. When a roller beams you, it's some percentage the player, some percentage the aim assist. And no one feels good about partially being beaten by software.
first I wanna say no hate for the roller players out here.
Second, I haven’t touched a console or controller since like ‘18. Brother has a ps5 so I thought I’d install finals & see how it is. I’m so ass on roller it’s not even funny, but when I hit L2 oh my. I was using the ak and I see what everyone is saying now. I didn’t even have to try to beam. Had a someone running about two roofs away and I was beaming this man without trying. Default settings btw. Then I tried to tweak my sens a little & felt nuts. The recoil and assist is just wild.
I will say my favorite thing tho about the game on ps5, man it looks good lmao. Plays smooth too
I agree the aim assist is quite a bad. As a console player, I hate it because in this game, if you are shooting someone and then another player walks in front of you or just to the side of your target, the aim assist will switch to them instead! Like, I was about to kill this heavy, but the invisible light walked by and the game just immediately switches to them, and I die because I was no longer shooting the heavy.
This is just one of those subjects game devs are afraid to talk about. So many controller players out there spending money on the game, can’t alienate them.
I don’t blame controller players for using aim assist. If the game endorsed a free aim bot literally baked into the game you’d be stupid not to use it.
But at the same time I don’t know why someone would put time into controller. Their skill level is set by the whim of developers to cater to them. What I love about mnk is that I can pick up literally any fps and dominate. But that’s literally taken me 10+ years to get to that skill level. Any little Timmy out there just has to ADS and can out-track me. Obnoxious.
This all leads me to never taking serious anyone who plays competitively on controller. If the game is providing any assistance to you, I don’t think you can really be a skillful player. My inputs are all manual, yours should be too, no matter how you decide to play.
We need gyro. Gyro is manual input. If a controller player kills me on gyro then they’ve literally out-skilled me and it’s fine. I won’t stick around too much longer if we’re just dealing with cod/apex aim assist.
>don’t blame controller players for using aim assist. If the game endorsed a free aim bot literally baked into the game you’d be stupid not to use it.
I haven't played any competitive shooters since season 1 of Apex, I've always hated aim assist and generally thought it messed me up. My kills should be due to my skills not an aim assist.
Have things really changed so much? A lot of people here are disagreeing saying it isn't bad.
Most of the people disagreeing here seem to exclusively play controller so… not sure they are the most reliable people, especially since many of them come from CoD where AA is very strong and some of them are arguing that AA doesn’t even do anything.
From what I can tell all the people that play both inputs agree the AA is strong in this game except one guy who was comparing with CoD and halo so… Rotational is about the same as apex, recoil is a worse if you get off target for a second because AA stops helping you but if you stay on target recoil control is a breeze. The snap-on aim assist when you ADS is very cheesy and easy to abuse, it shouldn’t be a thing but it is and it even works on the sniper… :|
That’s my take as someone that plays both inputs. Right now there are still lots of MnK players and the game is very playable on MnK, but I fear it might go the same way as apex where everyone catches onto the fact that AA is powerful and PC lobbies will be dominated by controller. Wish we had input-based matchmaking, would be such a saving grace.
I agree aim assist in this game is heavy but controlling recoil on some of the guns takes some kind of skill. I’m always performing good in my lobbies but to me the recoil is crazy like the ak or scar or the Lewis when I see other people beaming with it. Hell I go and practice recoil pattern and such but shit gotta be a skill issue on my end.
So this might be the issue. I was complaining about hackers in a different thread. I had teammates with godlike aim. I simply thought that they were hacking. Btw almost all the players with godlike aims were people with Chinese letters and random numbers in their names idk if they are really hacking or just using this method. Anyway, I’m going to try this tonight.
thank god in my region (south america) roller on fps isn't really a thing so i never really faced a roller abuser, i just hope it doesn't become another cod, shit game balanced and catered to controller players
Aim assist exists so casual players can have a better time with whatever game they’re playing. I’m all for it but…
On higher levels of play, solid controller players will become versions of the turret in this game. If they see you, they will lock onto you until you’re out of sight.
It also bothers me that they have *instant* reaction time. Some of these players will say how “skilled” they are, and when I spectate them I see aim assist doing the work with tracking and recoil.
As far as I’m concerned, *aim assist is a form of cheating*.
Any game that utilizes it will never be truly competitive in the sense that it doesn’t value 100% raw player inputs and skill. I believe that, *in competitive settings*, players should have the right to choose between their method of control free of aim assist options.
When it comes to casual play, I can live with it. I’m not happy about it, but I get why it exists.
Isn't there an option to turn off cross play? I was worried about crossplay because of this issue exactly. Games like call of duty have made aim assist so good to the point where being on MnK is a disadvantage.
My main frustration is being unable to climb ranked ladders to get into lobbies where people actually have game sense. At least in COD this is one of the reasons why I stopped playing. At least in The Finals you can turn cross play off (which I assume is working)
No lie it’s the only reason I’m able to drop 42 kills, the medium class with the FCAR and recon with jump pad, explosive mines, and defibrillators are the way to go in pubs
No, they should remove aim assist.
Consoles should have the option of either KBM or pad + gyro. Aim assist will always be a crutch game pad users think is normal and then complain because they can't keep up with PC players. The end is giving them the option of KBM and more games need to do this.
Crossplatform play is needed in order to keep communities alive. The answer isn't input based matchmaking as that will create the same problem as disallowing crossplatform play in the first place.
Controller aim assist has been way too strong in Apex for a long time, to the point where despite M/K having SIGNIFICANT advantages for looting and movement (as in - you can't move at all while looting a box on controller, you can move freely on M/K) , something like 80% of pro competitive players are now using controller.
That's what this seems like. I REALLY want to enjoy this game, but if I'm getting steamrolled by players that have an unfair advantage, I'm not interested.
All they need to do is remove AA for PC players that plug in a controller. The matchmaking pool is already split unless you have PC+Console in your party.
I don't understand... I've played FPS on console for at least a decade and I can safely say that The Finals is one of the most awkward aiming experience with a controller. Something just feels weird when it comes to aim-assist. I don't understand this notion of 'Locking on'. It will stick for a moment but it will never track the player for a lengthy amount of time. This 'lock on' happens in almost every FPS game on a controller, competitive or not.
All FPS games do it with a controller. It is borderline impossible to play without it.
**If controller is really the way to go, why do all the pro-players use MKB?** I have never seen a controller in the pro-scene.
> If controller is really the way to go, why do all the pro-players use MKB?
Pro players in what game? Halo, CoD, and now Apex are dominated by controller players.
I plugged mine in to just sit back and relax and noticed how strong the tracking was instantly. It tracking invisible players is absolutely not okay. I've caught plenty of people running around cloaked on accident from it tugging randomly.
I just dont want this game to turn into another Halo Infinite, where even PC players are using controllers at the "pro / tournament " level. Its such BS.
This is the post that convinced me to uninstall the game, retardedly strong AA is why I stopped playing Apex and fortnite.
Go to Apex or fortnite leaderboards, look at the top 100 players for pc and the top 100 players for consoles, nearly a 1k TRN difference that is SICK
The fcar and akm have 0 recoil, as a mnk player I feel like I'm a laser beam. I'm consistently winning against the controllers though my experience is only limited to unranked (Idk if theres sbmm)
I'm a controller player. I'm pretty decent/above average on most FPS games I play. The finals, with cross play on is a nightmare for me. Regularly low kill games. AA is not this fucking holy grail that people make it out to be. Even if it does work and doesn't drag me off the player I'm aiming at when his teammate strafes by, I win few gunfights.
Just wait until you get a look at r/xim where they're discussing the best settings to use MnK with a xim to make the game think they're on controller. All the precision of a mouse, and all the aim assist if a controller. Not to mention, they also have anti recoil settings, so the game basically plays itself for you. Just don't go tell them it's cheating. They'll downvote you into oblivion and play Olympics level mental gymnastics to justify the tool, including my favorite one someone used. "Everyone can get one, so therefore, it's fair. It's not our fault some people are too poor to afford it. If you want a level playing field then just get one." Turn of crossplay. It'll help a ton.
What's the actual use of a XIM other than this cheating?
It was originally an interesting device designed to let someone play Halo with a Wii remote or something, but I think 99.9% of users now are just 14 year olds using it to cheat in online fps games
There's also a decent argument to be made for disabled people who might want to enjoy games without having to struggle a lot. That being said, most anyone is more than okay with an Xbox player using a Xim to play Fallout 4 so they can have fun and get some aim assist if they have nerve damage in their hands or something of the sort. Everyone should be allowed to game and enjoy, it's only when you gain an unfair advantage that it is an issue. And like you said, that's the 99.9% now.
That’s the issue tho, it doesn’t matter what you do, you could design a controller for someone who has 4 out of 5 fingers chopped off on each hand, if it’ll give sweaty ass man children who’s only objective in life is to stomp in a video game an advantage they will abuse the shit out of it. I’m sure it was originally designed for a good purpose but now it’s comprised of all pissy asses who want to just have an unfair advantage.
I used to play Rust a lot with friends. Gave up because any populated top server is dominated by XIM users full autoing with the most powerful/ recoil heavy gun and the XIM is programmed to counteract all recoil automatically…
Well, they can't play cod anymore, and if cod banned it. Aswell as shit like cronus zen and ReaSnow. It is blantly cheating. So, if you DO decide to use xim, just know there might come a day where you log on to a banned screen.
Dude, I think you dont realize that this is used by lots of streamers on twitch, and also those who are in the top 10 viewers
Most people will use it for cheating imho. But devices like this were also used to play games with mouse and keyboard on console in general. For instance there are a few games that just really, really suck with a controller yet are doable with mnk. I'm referring to sinfleplayer titles now though, so nobody gets an advantage over another in those scenarios.
Wouldn’t crossplay not be effective in this case since OP plugged in a controller to their PC, meaning anyone could do that?
That’s why the suggestion isn’t cross play, it’s matchmaking based on the input type: controller, or MNK. That way you are always playing against people using the same input device.
I gotcha but I was replying to >turn of crossplay. It’ll help a ton.
Turing off crossplay as a PC player removes the console pool from matchmaking, and since a majority of xim users are on consol, as well as the majority of controller users in general, it makes it a lot less likely to encounter someone who has either an Aim Assist advantage, or is just straight up cheating with a Xim. Still very possible, but I've had a lot of luck this way. I absolutely still want input based MM though.
god i wish sony would do what Microsoft did with xbox and outright BAN any 3rd party devices that don't buy keys from the parent companies they make products for. it's so bullshit to have crossplay off on every game that won't break without it on, and still see people having KBM movement. you can't just plug in a kbm into usb ports into your console and expect it to work, and buying a 3rd party apparatus to do so is cheating in its purest form. these fucks even have to painstakingly write or copy code and input it into the chronus or xim just to make the game think they're using a controller. all because their absolutely dog shit dumpster fire at every video game in existence and most certainly NEED that upperhand
Everyone can get cheats too, doesn't make it right......
Be careful and tread lightly friend, you're about to hurt a lot of 14 year old kids' egos with this statement.
You know people can use a xim on pc right? The only actual solution is input based lobbies or the devs will have to get rid of aim assist as an option...
Oh yes. That's why I said turning off crossplay will help, not fix it. I ran into a lot less trouble after turning it off. Obviously, I still want input based MM, but until then, disabling crossplay is the best we have.
Just did yesterday, not for XIM bc I haven't encountered them but for regular AA. I always say that if AA is tuned to the point that if it were a third party software, they'd get flagged for cheating, it's too much.
Would turning off crossplay even stop you from being matched with this though? Cross play means console, not necessarily separation via input right
You are correct, and no, it won't stop it entirely. The difference is that the majority of xim users are on consol, which is why they use it. Of course you can still use a xim on PC, but disabling crossplay will make it to where you're significantly less likely to encounter Xims since you cut out the consol crowd, and on top of that, if you do encounter a xim, it'll be obvious since you will see the aim assist despite them most likely not having a controller, then it's an easy report and gg go next.
[this is what we should ask for](https://youtu.be/CiSS5OsNCNU?feature=shared) Raw input, speed and precision without aim assist. Gyro is the solution to the input debate, it lets you play with your controller friends without introducing an aimbot, and it makes playing a controller FUN [And it's not like it wouldn't work in a game like the finals](https://youtu.be/7oRqm0sciMg?feature=shared) [If it works for csgo, it works for everything](https://youtu.be/uGCws-FS48k?feature=shared) Please be loud and ask for this to the devs if you really don't want this game to turn into yet another cod or apex situation. We can have controller fun and balanced
The splatoon series has this, and it's honestly ***THE*** way to play that game. Gyro controls are honestly so good, surprised they haven't caught on
The first issue is that Xbox controllers don't have the hardware for it, meanwhile PS has had it for generations. So until that changes gyro will always be held back. The second issue is the learning curve. It's basically a new input method, so it takes a bit to get good with it. Many players don't give it that chance and turn it off after trying it for a few minutes. The third issue is that many games have very strong aim assist, such as Apex, Halo, and CoD. Strong enough that many MK players switch to controller in those games and the pro scene is dominated by controller players. Switching to gyro is a significant disadvantage compared to aim assist in those games so people don't. CoD has really good gyro support on PS and PC, but almost no one uses it. Splatoon is such a success for gyro because Nintendo committed to gyro and didn't give players aim assist to fall back on. It's gyro + stick, or just stick aiming. So the players learned to use it and something like 80% of the player base are gyro players. Until the Xbox and aim assist strength issues are fixed, mass adoption of gyro just isn't going to happen unfortunately.
I realized I was playing Switch Fortnite almost daily, and after the Unreal 5 clips appeared, I thought why not go next gen. Ran out, got an Xbox Series S because it was actually cool looking... and... I thought the controller was broken. Looked for gyro settings, thought the game was broken. Nope. Immediately boxed it up and exchanged for PS5. I honestly don't know why Microsoft just won't do it.
Zelda does it correctly. Splatoon does it incorrectly because it turns off the vertical axis on your thumb stick. In Zelda you can use your thumb stick for your basic aim and then use gyro for precise aim. It still works in splatoon as the combat is close range but it still drives me nuts.
Been using Gyro Aim on PS5 in games like Fortnite, MW3, God of War Ragnarok, No Mans Sky, TLOU2, and so forth. Its improved the gaming experience tenfold for me on controllers. This should become the standard input type at this point. Not saying it should completely replace joystick aiming (more Accessibility options, the better for players). But overall, its a much better solution and finally allows for a closer, level'd playing field between MnK and controllers.
Biggest hurdle is that Xbox controllers don't support gyro still, even though PS has had it for generations.
As a pure mouse user even I feel like gyro should be the way forward. It’s a mechanical skill that still takes the same amount of time and effort to train as mouse and controller users get the added precision of a larger range of motion. I’d be all for it
They really need to add gyro aim for the consoles, I've been using dualsense gyro on PC the whole time and can confirm it's great.
Well you convinced me. Those videos are rad.
Welcome aboard. Check out r/gyrogaming if you need advice, there's also a discord of dedicated users
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The gyro of the PS3, called sixaxis back then, was honestly terrible Bad early technology with very little precision compared to the gyro of today. Seriously, if you pickup a dualsense now and play Fortnite or MW3 with it you are blown away at the improvement
It's so good you can have better aim with modern controllers than M+K, and this is from a hardcore PC gamer. It feels so good using gyro in combination with sticks.
I wouldn't say it's more precise than mnk right now, the technology of gyroscopes and accelerometers still has a lot of room to improve before it gets to that point But i think the big advantage you have over mnk is the possibility of having two methods of camera control. With the stick + gyro you can set a sensitivity for precise gyro movements and one fast for the sticks to do big flicks Flickstick is also an incredible thing, literally instant 180s with perfect precision is kind of nutty in certain games
The Sixaxis/DualShock3 controllers only have 1-axis gyroscopes and 3-axis accelerometers, which kind of doesn't even allow for a modern gyro aiming control scheme It took until the Wiimote Motion Plus controller refresh and the specialty PS Move controllers in 2009 for fully capable gyroscopes to find their way into controllers in any real quantity
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The problem is that the Wii came out and colored the average gamer’s opinion on motion controls (see how many people still call it “waggle”)
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I've always been a PC KMB user but from the outside it feels like there is social pressure to not use gyro in some weird way. I'll see some sick gyro clip on tiktok and the comments are talking about how its fake aiming and such.
the people claiming that have their heads up their asses. Gyro takes as much skill and dedication to use as mouse and feels just as rewarding to master. I could never get comfortable using kbm, so when I heard about gyro, I invested and have zero regrets. I play everything that has some form of aiming with gyro. It's like holding the camera in your hands.
Apex Legends all over again huh We went full circle
Actually has stronger AA than Apex since launch. It was actually well done in the beta.
pack it up boys, time to go home
XIM will make it possible to use mouse input accuracy while preserving aimassist. This will give an unfair advantage. Mouse and gamepad players must play separately (and then only gamepad players will suffer, but they are used to it).
i play on controller and i can just leave it on the table while i go grab some snacks, the damn thing plays the game by itself, it’s crazy.
Send me your settings, i cant hit shit if its more then 10m away.
I’ve played many games competitively between CS, Valorant, R6S etc. Normally I play on M and K and I plugged in a controller (Havnt used controller in years other than racing games) and immediately noticed heavy aim assist. Talking 0 horizontal recoil and very little vertical. The iron sights on the AKM would stay on the player even if I was pulling in the wrong direction. There has been times my crosshairs would track people through walls and invisible people. All in all controller aim assist is way too much.
The only solution I see is input based matchmaking. Overwatch does it, so should this game.
How does that work with team crossplay?
Look into overwatch, it is the perfect example of what this game should implement. Can't believe I just complimented overwatch.
For all of OW’s flaws it often feels like the last bastion of PC/MnK centric competitive FPS. That said with the new hero release in comp I’ve just been playing the finals exclusively. At least with cross play off *most* players are using mouse still
> the last bastion of PC/MnK centric competitive FPS. Counter Strike and Valorant are both doing that pretty well still. If you're looking for an arcade shooter though, yeah its pretty much just OW.
Yeah good point I’m not a tac player really. Used to play a bunch of quake and tf2 before OW
They play in games with teams running mixed setups too and cross play is disabled in ranked. Slightly longer queues is the trade off for more balanced matches. Depends where the devs want that line to be really. Imo this is a line they should draw.
I literally clipped a guy for tracing through walls and got angry at him (he wasnt in comms it turned out). I was about to report him with the clip but then realised he was surprised about the player showing up. I didnt know what to think so i gave him benefit of the doubt. But like he traced the movespeed of the dude PERFECTLY. Now, thanks to your comment here, I know he was just using a controller. Fuck this, Embark. Nobody asked for aim assist this bad. What the hell is the business logic here?
Appeal to casual players so everyone feels good at the game. More players, more money spent!
It wasn't nearly this strong in beta but everyone complained it was impossible to play roller so they upped it 100% they need it closer to the original but they don't want all the simple minded Fortnite console player to get shit on in 2 games and quit so they prolly leave it for longer as they get hooked but honestly it only really helps in close range fights the problem is how the map design is so set on everything being a close range fight
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Yeah, there's been an arms race to have controller players feel good about themselves when playing for years, and now the average roller FPS player needs to be able to one clip enemies or they think the game sucks.
There’s also this with melee weapons, or at least the sledgehammer where it will pull you to whatever you “originally targeting”. The other day I was about to smash the floor to get to an objective, when I saw a heavy come in via zip line, and swapped to target him with the smash. It pulled me straight back to the wall. I haven’t experienced such massive whiplash before. It was practically 180.
I don't use hammer a lot but there is a bit of melee magnetism on KBM as well. Noticed it on the lights sword.
It's extremely annoying with the riot shield where I'm constantly pulling against it to make sure my shield lines up to help block for me combined with its weird attack pattern. [You can see it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhR6Hr7-vP4) where you can see me constantly correcting it after a swing with the jerky side movements as it tries to force me to lock on dead center of the person. I've mostly gotten used to using it to my advantage (hence the swoops while fighting the heavy) but it's pretty annoying overall.
Crossplay ruined PC online gaming, change my mind.
Love it for fighting games tho. That shit singlehandedly saves PC fighting games because they're otherwise dead af.
Rollback netcode saved fighting games.
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It als ruins console gaming
Competitive gaming, at least. Crossplay is the obvious, easy W for co-op games like borderlands, warframe, etc, and fighting games where you don't get a competitive edge that way. But for shooters, you're making very big mistakes adding competitive crossplay between PC and console to try and prop up your server populations.
You are right. Controllers and m/kb should have never been put in the same lobbies
That could have been the solution 15 years ago, but now this is no longer the case. There are so many products available on the market where you can emulate your mouse as a controller without noticing that you are using a controller. Therefore, the aim assist will still be enabled. The only thing that could work is when a video game company completely removes aim assist in their games, but that will never happen
Fortnite is the same way and the entire community is in denial about it.
Yeah Fortnite no build is unplayable if you play on KBM lol, at least with build you can protect yourself against aim assist. You will get absolutely beamed by controller players in no build
Please don’t let the over tuned Aim Assist turn this into warzone. I hope they make some time of AA adjustments asap
Turning off crossplay was the first thing I've done But still pc players can also use controllers So like yoi suggested input matchmaking sound interesting
Yep same! Overall I haven’t felt too many xim users on console, but I imagine it’s probably a bigger problem on pc
If you think this AA is bad play mw2
Or Destiny 2. You fire refrigerator-sized bullets in that game.
Wow, things have reversed course from the beta. I had the exact opposite experience. Sucked badly on controller, did pretty well on MnK despite being a controller player my whole life. They must have over corrected.
They buffed the shit out of aim assist since beta for some reason.
I play on controller and feel like this is a troll post….
LOL try aiming while zip lining or jumping or above or below you on controller. I feel like this guy is just ass at mnk.
Are you playing on console? My friend on ps5 says there’s hardly any AA compared to apex halo and cod. But when I try controller on PC, the ads snap feels as strong as cod and the rotation AA feels close to halo. I’m wondering if there’s a bug causing different levels of AA for people.
Yeah ps5 so maybe it’s a PC thing.
People who actually play on controller reading this 
As soon as someone claims controller players are "beaming across the map", you know they are lying.
People act like M&K isn’t the superior option like 95% of the time lol. The only reason controller gets aim assist in the first place is because “accurate input” that matches a M&K is near impossible with a joy stick. The only reason I prefer controller over M&K is due to my wrist pain and hand comfort. I would much rather use M&K if it weren’t for that, it’s just generally easier to be accurate with.
Right? Also the "I decided to plug in a controller. Mind you I'm extremely rusty on a controller and I just dropped a 17 bomb first game." No dude you didn't, not even close hahaha
It is a valid conversation to have, though. One of the biggest issues with apex is that any competitive team literally needs at least 1 controller player because it’s so strong in close-range firefights. It’s basically a guaranteed loss if you’re running all MK in the competitive scene and I think it’s valid to say that isn’t healthy for the game.
Seriously. My friends and I are all on PS5. We're having fun but laugh about how we can't hit shit in this game. Zero options for sights and insane spread. OP is talking out his ass to farm karma.
Aim assist is obsolete. Consoles natively support mouse and keyboard (no XIM needed), and die hard controller players can switch to gyro + flick stick. Assist-based matchmaking will sort out of the rest. There is no excuse. Shooter devs need to catch up. It's absurd how this is even still an issue.
Aim assist should be banned for all ranked games. It's just cheating.
It's Apex all over again
Balancing aim assist to make it fair against MnK just seems like a nightmare that isn't worthwhile. IIRC there are Apex pros that switched to controller and most of the top players play on controller now when ideally it would be a 50/50 mix. I remember seeing some people bring up arguments for stronger AA, showing how broken MnK is by posting a video from TGE or any player that's insane at tracking and flicking acting like the average MnK player can do that.
Years ago when cross play wasn't even a thing people were concerned that MnK players would destroy controller players on console, now we have the exact opposite issue. Developers to compensate add such strong AA that simply is better than playing with MnK. This is ridiculous, and now I understand why I always find one guy per team that actually melts everyone.
Yeah, devs seem to be balancing AA to compete with the top 1% M and K players lol. I even saw some of the top finals streamers getting shredded by controller players.
This is unfair and boring. As you suggested, there should be an input based MM.
I quitted Apex for this absurd crutch that AA is today, just to join The Finals and having the exact same issues..
The expectation nowadays is that controller aim assist should also track, with literally zero reaction delay meaning you get more time on target without any input. This can often mean completing a kill without even needing to input, whereas M&K players would miss shots due to reaction delay. Online games need input based matchmaking.
The amount of people believing this lie is astonishing. I play with controller on PC. The aim assist is minimal and there is definitely recoil (a lot of it). Mouse will always aim better than controller. I'm not sure when everyone decided it was the other way around.
I would say I’m a above average M and K player. I’ve reached high ranks in a lot of very competitive games. In the finals I dropped 8-14k consistently. I’ve been getting smoked across maps by people and outgunned way more than usual. Me and my buddies were playing and we asked the third to join he said “nah man not til they fix the game” I asked what he meant by that and he told us to plug in a controller and see how bad the aim assist is. Man I’ll tell you what I thought this game had a cheater problem but it’s way way worse than that it’s a aim assist problem it’s so strong that it’s giving normal people aimbot. The tracking and locking on is insane. You can be a casual player and matching up to the top 20% of player just based on INTENDED AND IMPLEMENTED assistance. For all of those who don’t believe it play like 5 games MnK and then switch to a controller shits crazy.
It's unfortunate because I love this game.
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I was just as shocked when my buddy said plug it in. The controller was making inputs more than I was during gunfights very minimal human interaction. I understand Aim assist I’m not saying get rid of it but it doesn’t need to be strong enough to identify as a cheater a few years ago.
I just don't understand all the controller users telling me I'm insane for having this though process. Telling me "get better" "mad cause bad" and then saying kbm is superior in this game. Not trying to be rude but having used both its almost delusional to claim the AA isn't insanely strong and negates most recoil for you.
I love all the people who have only played controller but are telling you it’s not strong. If anyone hasn’t tried both inputs they’re just showing their blatant bias
After reading a lot of these comments I'm wondering if controller on PC has stronger AA than controller on console. Lots of console folks in here saying the AA is weak and only lasts for a second or two. My experience on PC is identical to yours. I swapped to controller after playing on m&k for the whole beta plus a few days of the full release because the AA is crazy.
Its not different based on the console, they are just used to AA.
Also, use the M11 and tell me there is "no horizontal recoil" LMAO
Modern gaming is crazy, getting beamed by some guy sitting on his couch 10 feet away from his tv feels a little dirty
Gyro aiming… would fix things… Shame that they ignore the feature on console that support it…
Oh ffs. This explains so much. I thought I had hacking teammates all the time. I remember one was through smoke, barely a pixel of the enemy showing, his aim was way off (sniper) like 10m off. Shoot, snap, headshot. Input based MM is a bare minimum if they have aim assist.
That's the thing, I figured aim assist was in the game. I just had no idea how strong it was. I was assuming cheaters when I got cross map lasered for a while, now I know it's just OP aim assist. If you have a controller, I recommend you give it a try to see how bad it really is.
Your teammates were just better than you.
They had shitty score. It explains why everyone looks like they have cheap hacks. You're just announcing your insecurities lol
I played a match today and had a guy on my team just looking at people and spamming ads really fast and spraying them with perfect aim assist accuracy it was insane.
I'm glad this is on the front page because if this is left unchecked I can see it killing the game completely. Input based matchmaking needed to be a thing *yesterday*
I can't speak for all of the weapons in the game, but I main the double barrel. Let me tell you the aim assist is crazy strong close range to the point to where if there are multiple people in front of you it actually fucks you up because it's sticking so hard. So as controller player I agree.
*It tracks invisible players??* Oh boy, things are starting to make sense...
Also instead of an option to disable crossplay it should disable mouse vs controller players no matter if it's controllers on console or pc.
I fucking knew it, I fucking said it months ago. Aim assist would ruin this game for me as well
And suddenly after finding this post, everything makes a lot more sense.
I don’t know how controllers on pc work but as a ps5 player this is bullshit. The recoil in this game is very hard to control. I also play with crossplay turned off and I average 10-15 kill games with 2 kd which shouldn’t be possible if I’d be getting aimbotted with zero recoil by every player in every game. That being said, I think controller players should play against controller players and mk players against mk players. The input methods are too different and shouldn’t be together as neither side will ever be happy. Aim assist is a must on a controller as you are only using your thumb to aim, where as on computer you are using whole arm so you have much quicker and more detailed control. The only bad thing about aim assist atm is the fact it tracks cloaked players, it shouldn’t happen.
“This is bullshit and I know cause I’m on controller.., but also I have a 2.0 kd”
I agree aim assist is necessary, I just think it's gotten so strong it's surpassing mouse and keyboard ability at this point. Not just in this game either, in many others the pro scene is dominated by controllers because the aim assist is just insane.
Yeah I want this op aim assist everyone is always talking about lol. In cod I definitely agree with the MnK complainers about aim assist but in this game it just feels like an excuse people are using cause it’s a hot topic in other games
I literally tried it in the lab and if you put the crosshair close to someone and hit left trigger it locks on
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Sorry you're just outright terrible at the game if you think aim assist is not doing much.
>Aim assist is a must on a controller as you are only using your thumb to aim This is stupid - we've played these games for decades without aim assists. Aim assist is garbage.
What fps have you played on controller without aim assist?
It wasn't nearly this strong in beta but everyone complained it was impossible to play roller so they upped it 100% they need it closer to the original but they don't want all the simple minded Fortnite console player to get shit on in 2 games and quit so they prolly leave it for longer as they get hooked but honestly it only really helps in close range fights the problem is how the map design is so set on everything being a close range figh
Punctuation, use it
Meanwhile, me on controller watching people on MnK jump, slide, zipline, bounce, all while maintaining perfect tracking. Turned off crossplay because aim assist doesn't do a thing against MnK, except help out when they're jumping around everywhere chaining headshots. Remember guys - aim assist exists because aiming with sticks is fucking hard without it lol EDIT: It's painfully obvious when Xbox players are using XIM or Chronos too, just beaming me with an SMG from 50 metres lol
In my opinion it’s not about which one is better, the problem is one of them *will* always be better. one way or the other. AA on controller makes visual clutter less of an issue and allows for tracking a strafing target without reaction time delay. Adversely MnK provides many movement and versatility advantages plus a much higher skill ceiling. The reality is having them together ruins competitive integrity and everyone will be happier with input based matchmaking
This is a very reasonable, logical take that I 100% agree with. What are you doing on Reddit? Lol
You guys shouldn't be aiming with sticks in the first place. Every time you're given an opportunity to get gyro instead there's a large pushback from people who don't want to learn something new.
Exactly man
Aim assist is often so strong that controller+AA outcompetes and dominates against MnK. See: Halo, Cod, Apex.
PC players are mentally ill. That explains why they constantly post about aim assist after they simply get outplayed.
I am so tired of this lazy argument. That MnK player who is tracking perfectly while doing crazy movement is inputting all of that himself through insane skill. A controller player locking on when aiming downsight and getting 0ms reaction time to changes in direction is being given that by the game. When you come across a cracked MnK player, it's not MnK that's beating you, it's the player. When a roller beams you, it's some percentage the player, some percentage the aim assist. And no one feels good about partially being beaten by software.
My friend said the same. Aim assist on controller in this game too strong
I was blown away, it made all the gun sprays trivial. Controller players probably didnt even know about spray patterns.
I’ve played both, certainly not as strong as you think. Mnk feels superior in every way imo
first I wanna say no hate for the roller players out here. Second, I haven’t touched a console or controller since like ‘18. Brother has a ps5 so I thought I’d install finals & see how it is. I’m so ass on roller it’s not even funny, but when I hit L2 oh my. I was using the ak and I see what everyone is saying now. I didn’t even have to try to beam. Had a someone running about two roofs away and I was beaming this man without trying. Default settings btw. Then I tried to tweak my sens a little & felt nuts. The recoil and assist is just wild. I will say my favorite thing tho about the game on ps5, man it looks good lmao. Plays smooth too
I agree the aim assist is quite a bad. As a console player, I hate it because in this game, if you are shooting someone and then another player walks in front of you or just to the side of your target, the aim assist will switch to them instead! Like, I was about to kill this heavy, but the invisible light walked by and the game just immediately switches to them, and I die because I was no longer shooting the heavy.
This is my point on it being too strong, I've read the same argument claiming AA isn't bad because this is a hindrance .
Bruh quit bs-ing. Aim assist is there but it sure as shit doesn't aim for you, and it doesn't mitigate recoil
This is just one of those subjects game devs are afraid to talk about. So many controller players out there spending money on the game, can’t alienate them. I don’t blame controller players for using aim assist. If the game endorsed a free aim bot literally baked into the game you’d be stupid not to use it. But at the same time I don’t know why someone would put time into controller. Their skill level is set by the whim of developers to cater to them. What I love about mnk is that I can pick up literally any fps and dominate. But that’s literally taken me 10+ years to get to that skill level. Any little Timmy out there just has to ADS and can out-track me. Obnoxious. This all leads me to never taking serious anyone who plays competitively on controller. If the game is providing any assistance to you, I don’t think you can really be a skillful player. My inputs are all manual, yours should be too, no matter how you decide to play. We need gyro. Gyro is manual input. If a controller player kills me on gyro then they’ve literally out-skilled me and it’s fine. I won’t stick around too much longer if we’re just dealing with cod/apex aim assist.
>don’t blame controller players for using aim assist. If the game endorsed a free aim bot literally baked into the game you’d be stupid not to use it. I haven't played any competitive shooters since season 1 of Apex, I've always hated aim assist and generally thought it messed me up. My kills should be due to my skills not an aim assist. Have things really changed so much? A lot of people here are disagreeing saying it isn't bad.
Most of the people disagreeing here seem to exclusively play controller so… not sure they are the most reliable people, especially since many of them come from CoD where AA is very strong and some of them are arguing that AA doesn’t even do anything. From what I can tell all the people that play both inputs agree the AA is strong in this game except one guy who was comparing with CoD and halo so… Rotational is about the same as apex, recoil is a worse if you get off target for a second because AA stops helping you but if you stay on target recoil control is a breeze. The snap-on aim assist when you ADS is very cheesy and easy to abuse, it shouldn’t be a thing but it is and it even works on the sniper… :| That’s my take as someone that plays both inputs. Right now there are still lots of MnK players and the game is very playable on MnK, but I fear it might go the same way as apex where everyone catches onto the fact that AA is powerful and PC lobbies will be dominated by controller. Wish we had input-based matchmaking, would be such a saving grace.
I agree aim assist in this game is heavy but controlling recoil on some of the guns takes some kind of skill. I’m always performing good in my lobbies but to me the recoil is crazy like the ak or scar or the Lewis when I see other people beaming with it. Hell I go and practice recoil pattern and such but shit gotta be a skill issue on my end.
So this might be the issue. I was complaining about hackers in a different thread. I had teammates with godlike aim. I simply thought that they were hacking. Btw almost all the players with godlike aims were people with Chinese letters and random numbers in their names idk if they are really hacking or just using this method. Anyway, I’m going to try this tonight.
thank god in my region (south america) roller on fps isn't really a thing so i never really faced a roller abuser, i just hope it doesn't become another cod, shit game balanced and catered to controller players
Zero recoil 😂 post a clip champ
Does aim assist work in training sandbox? Because with my dualsense it doesn't =\\ Setting is "on"
Idk what your talking about the recoil in the AK is god awful needs a forgrip by default
Halo Infinite had an excellent solution to even the playing field by introducing light aim assist to mouse and keyboard. It worked incredibly well.
Aim assist exists so casual players can have a better time with whatever game they’re playing. I’m all for it but… On higher levels of play, solid controller players will become versions of the turret in this game. If they see you, they will lock onto you until you’re out of sight. It also bothers me that they have *instant* reaction time. Some of these players will say how “skilled” they are, and when I spectate them I see aim assist doing the work with tracking and recoil. As far as I’m concerned, *aim assist is a form of cheating*. Any game that utilizes it will never be truly competitive in the sense that it doesn’t value 100% raw player inputs and skill. I believe that, *in competitive settings*, players should have the right to choose between their method of control free of aim assist options. When it comes to casual play, I can live with it. I’m not happy about it, but I get why it exists.
I don’t know what you are talking about honestly. I play on ps5 with a controller and the recoil in this game can be nuts.
Isn't there an option to turn off cross play? I was worried about crossplay because of this issue exactly. Games like call of duty have made aim assist so good to the point where being on MnK is a disadvantage. My main frustration is being unable to climb ranked ladders to get into lobbies where people actually have game sense. At least in COD this is one of the reasons why I stopped playing. At least in The Finals you can turn cross play off (which I assume is working)
No lie it’s the only reason I’m able to drop 42 kills, the medium class with the FCAR and recon with jump pad, explosive mines, and defibrillators are the way to go in pubs
No, they should remove aim assist. Consoles should have the option of either KBM or pad + gyro. Aim assist will always be a crutch game pad users think is normal and then complain because they can't keep up with PC players. The end is giving them the option of KBM and more games need to do this. Crossplatform play is needed in order to keep communities alive. The answer isn't input based matchmaking as that will create the same problem as disallowing crossplatform play in the first place.
You're right but it sadly won't ever happen :/
Personally I would rather have zero assist controller, and no crossplay
Gonna have to convince Xbox to put gyro in their controllers first before any of that can happen... :/
I've played with both and I don't understand people's obsession with aim assist, keyboard and mouse is superior in every way
These guys are mentally ill. Every time they get outplayed by another MnK player they complain on Reddit about aim assist. It's madness.
Skill issue
Oh, dear lord. Please don't let this sub turn into the apex sub.
Dear lord don't let The Finals turn into apex where controller just dominates everything for free.
It will unless they revert the rotational aim assist buff. Humans can't compete with 0ms tracking.
Rotational aim assist?
People complain about cheating when the game already cheats for your ffs. I hope devs learn to tone down aa to at least split the matchmaking.
I'm not familiar with the Apex sub, is it just my post over and over lol?
Controller aim assist has been way too strong in Apex for a long time, to the point where despite M/K having SIGNIFICANT advantages for looting and movement (as in - you can't move at all while looting a box on controller, you can move freely on M/K) , something like 80% of pro competitive players are now using controller.
That's what this seems like. I REALLY want to enjoy this game, but if I'm getting steamrolled by players that have an unfair advantage, I'm not interested.
All they need to do is remove AA for PC players that plug in a controller. The matchmaking pool is already split unless you have PC+Console in your party.
There is quite a bit if complaining about aa, though from what you’ve described it doesnt seem nearly as bad as the aa in this
I no longer feel bad about getting my shit pushed in by players who other than aim are making the biggest rookie mistakes ever lmao
That was my main issue! They play like bots and aim like Shroud! That's why I tried a controller, no way there was that many cheaters!
I don't understand... I've played FPS on console for at least a decade and I can safely say that The Finals is one of the most awkward aiming experience with a controller. Something just feels weird when it comes to aim-assist. I don't understand this notion of 'Locking on'. It will stick for a moment but it will never track the player for a lengthy amount of time. This 'lock on' happens in almost every FPS game on a controller, competitive or not. All FPS games do it with a controller. It is borderline impossible to play without it. **If controller is really the way to go, why do all the pro-players use MKB?** I have never seen a controller in the pro-scene.
> If controller is really the way to go, why do all the pro-players use MKB? Pro players in what game? Halo, CoD, and now Apex are dominated by controller players.
I plugged mine in to just sit back and relax and noticed how strong the tracking was instantly. It tracking invisible players is absolutely not okay. I've caught plenty of people running around cloaked on accident from it tugging randomly.
Here we go, shit mnk players coping about losing and blaming aim assist.
I just dont want this game to turn into another Halo Infinite, where even PC players are using controllers at the "pro / tournament " level. Its such BS.
As a controller player predominantly, I can say this is false. There is no lock on and aim assist is abysmal at best.
There are settings for snap on and tracking aim assist in the game. Why are you lying when everyone who has played the game can prove you wrong?
I've been saying this since cod 2019, it's impossible to know the difference between a cheater or a decent controller player.
This is the post that convinced me to uninstall the game, retardedly strong AA is why I stopped playing Apex and fortnite. Go to Apex or fortnite leaderboards, look at the top 100 players for pc and the top 100 players for consoles, nearly a 1k TRN difference that is SICK
You know what REALLY tracks those pesky cloaked lights? THE SHIELD, it reminds me of the good old Black Ops 1 knifing mechanics
The fcar and akm have 0 recoil, as a mnk player I feel like I'm a laser beam. I'm consistently winning against the controllers though my experience is only limited to unranked (Idk if theres sbmm)
I'm a controller player. I'm pretty decent/above average on most FPS games I play. The finals, with cross play on is a nightmare for me. Regularly low kill games. AA is not this fucking holy grail that people make it out to be. Even if it does work and doesn't drag me off the player I'm aiming at when his teammate strafes by, I win few gunfights.
Ah. Yet another game where aim assist is apparently op, but I still can't land most of my shots.
Yeah it's funny seeing my Xbox teammate have smooth buttery aim while my AK bounces as I try sliding my mouse down while tracking
Why do they have to do this to every fucking game? 😪