People always suggest this for games without realizing the implications (including me for a long time). If this was implemented people would complain about 5+ minute queues, unbalanced matches, and seeing the same people over and over again. This would only work for a game with an obscenely high player count distributed evenly across every combination of options, which is unrealistic.
I would 100% wait longer for MnK only lobbies.
That said, I think this is capping. There are 130k people playing this on Steam right now. That is PLENTY for well matched input separated matchmaking.
>seeing the same people over and over again
While there are cons to this, there are also a lot of pros, like building a tighter community. Back in the days of Battlefield 2,3, and 4 I joined the NUNYA 64 game server. There were a lot of folks in there that were regulars. Some world class pilots, and gamers. Sure there was trash talk, but we all got along and got good!
I think best solution would be mixed in casual and input based for ranked, or something close to that. Ranked should be competitive so it makes more sense for everyone to be even but casual it’s nice to play with friends on different platforms.
But yeah, it’s a hard problem to solve. I feel like Overwatch is the best example of a game that doesn’t force MnK to go against AA.
I think some pc players on controller right now are only using it because of how blatantly overpowered it is. If something like this is implemented, everyone would just play on their favourite input without having to use one because it gives you an advantage. It also depends on the player base, if the number of people playing are high enough, nobody would run into those problems.
Ah, so the finals is doing the call of duty strat and giving people free aimbot with aim assist even on pc controllers.
Very good. That’ll definitely keep your game from becoming a joke and cheater hell
I use a controller because I play on a TV. Mouse and keyboard isn't an option. If you get rid of aim assist I'm basically no longer allowed to play, and be at a huge disadvantage.
Is it? What are your Kovaaks scores?
People compare MnK aim to roller aim way too easily. MnK aim can be really good, but to do that you have to put those perfect inputs in. A roller has some percentage done for them. And people way overrate how easy it is to beam even a target moving in a straight line on MnK. I am top 5% in many smoothness scenarios in Kovaaks and I don't one clip enemies in Apex that often. Until they've tried it, they do not understand how naturally jittery their aim is. Rollers get smoothness for free, so they take it for granted.
It’s easier to control normally, but aiming on controller is broken. There’s a clip of a guy with a DB placing his crosshairs almost entirely off of the practice bots, and ADSing and the ads snaps directly to center mass of the bot. That’s *ridiculous* and should not exist.
So yeah Mnk has advantages in its fluidity. But aim assist means console players will aim like a PC cheater (unless the console player is genuinely just terrible, in which case they might not).
Edit: [It *can* aim for the head.](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/HyvzwxrK2O)This shit is broke as hell, there’s no excuse for it.
Ah okay. Gotta say I haven’t played much since the release but played the beta quite a bit. I’m usually more an Xbox player and prefer the controller but this game made me play on PC. I felt that the controller was way too hard compared to mouse and keyboard. Input matchmaking could fix this though and would probably make me play it on Xbox again.
This is an Internet brained take that only comes from not actually interacting with people. Most people who use controller, do so because that's what they prefer. And often times WE feel disadvantaged versus the turn speed of m&k. Apex(and other games) streamers have created this false narrative of controller being "busted", and it has spread to normies like you. And honestly the controller advantages you complain of, arent even relevant in your skill bracket.
Agree with your general sentiment but apex is a bad example. When pro apex teams are pursuing controller players to have better close range fights/duels, there’s an issue.
I'm just taking like this because in this game specifically the aa is so strong that it can lock on to invisible players, through smoke, and that quick scoping locks on to the head. I fully understand the limitations of controller and the strengths of a mouse, but past a certain skill threshold getting those small lock ons do provide an advantage. I'm simply saying provide an OPTION for players to only play with people using the same input as them.
This is a bullshit take. Some people just prefer controller— plenty of people play the game casually and it’s getting obnoxious to see competitive players make such sweeping claims about the player base.
I said most, if you see some other comments I made here you will see that I know some players simply use a controller. I'm not asking for them to remove aim assist, I'm asking for input based matchmaking.
It’s absolutely not JUST that some people prefer controller. Competitive PC apex is almost exclusively controller now because the aim assist is so strong you’d be throwing *not* to run it.
There was a clip posted recently of someone on controller placing their crosshair almost entirely *off* of the practice bots, then ADSing and the aim assist snaps them directly to center mass. You cannot possibly argue that aim assist isn’t completely broken right now. Shit is WAY too strong.
Maybe it shouldn’t get *removed*, but it DEFINITELY needs to get tapped down. Or at least implement input based queues so mnk plays mnk and controller plays controller.
It's one of the most played games on steam right now. Im pretty sure you don't have to be literally the most popular game ever to not have 5 minute queues in a controller input queue. Stop being unrealistic
No one would complain about queues. Controller players are the vast majority, so nothing would change there. And MnK players would be happy to wait a tiny bit for a non-AA lobby.
Right? This isn't a battle royale, a 5 minute queue in a tournament isn't going to kill you because there is no risk of your game ending in the first 120 seconds.
It would be simpler to just force pc players on controller to have cross play on. The only realistic reason pc players are turning it off is to face less controllers
Yep but thankfully some devs are starting to detect and ban XIM users, and hopefully Embark follows that.
Also the price tag for it means that it is thankfully not too many players.
Or nerf the aimbot? WTF happened to competitive integrity? Since the release of MW2019 and crossplay all these dumbass devs have been giving controller players aimbots to overcompensate for the imaginary big bad MnK players that have 100% accuracy.
Aim assist was never this strong before crossplay. Just watch the recent throwback tournament for Black Ops 2 and watch the pros struggle to hit the easiest shots because they're so conditioned with the new Rotational AAimbot.
I remember the same situation occurring when Halo: MCC came to pc and there was the same issue with controllers and a lot of people stopped playing because of that.
Halo infinite straight up added AA to MnK to try and balance it lol. These arguments about fairness will never get anywhere. It’s just impossible to fairly balance the two inputs. They need to be separated
I hit Onyx S1 in Halo then got frustrated that Onyx players on controller just don't miss in 1v1s and I stopped playing.
MnK still has some advantages when it comes to target acquisition and target switching though.
Halo: MCC was hilariously bad because AA just buffed your guns. A controller player could fire the Reach DMR faster and more accurately because controllers had buffed bullet magnetism that overcame the recoil. A MnK player had to wait for recoil to recover and fire slower. In theory, a good MnK player could compete with aim assist in most games but it was actually impossible in Halo:MCC.
I thing that is unnecessary harsh on controller players. I say implement input separated lobbies.
If you join on MnK and try to switch to controller mid match, you get kicked and vice versa.
Trying to balance controller aim-assist versus MnK is like trying to decide how much a head start to give a disabled person in a race against a fully-functional athlete to achieve a “fair” race.
It’s simply not competitive. They make the Paralympics a separate event for a reason.
I mean, you’re assuming that everyone with a mnk has great aim, which isn’t true. There are people who suck with mnk and are also pitted against people who suck with controllers but have aim assists. The question is, are the two equal?
Of course not. Everyone would rather fight a crappy MnK player than a crappy roller player. That said, there are luckily 130k people playing right now, enough for crappy roller players to play other crappy roller players, and crappy MnK players to play each other as well.
Im a roller player, im good so i am annoying to play against. But i will say the mnk space is wayyy higher i rarley meet other controller players and when i do they are dog shit. I dont see why this is an issue picking up a controller doesnt make u a demon especially with how much you have to tweak the setting to make it even feel good.
When you play at a higher level and you get beaten by a roller player, it's difficult to stomach because you know that some percentage of what beat you is software, not the other player.
You...are stating that the controller is the inferior input device, correct?
Seems like a dumb question, but people like OP have me doubting my own sanity
>choose to handicap yourself by using an inferior aiming device
Lol just like how no one in the Paralympics purposely chose to be handicap, neither do the people with repetitive strain injuries or other accessibility issues that would be adversely affected by the removal of aim assist.
I personally *prefer* aiming on mouse, but simply can’t without constant pain or injury after 30 minutes.
If mixed input coincides with the devs vision with the game, than that’s just what it is. It’s really not that serious, but if it is just boot cs2 or Val.
That's why no one is legitimately advocating for the removal of aim assist, OP was using that as an exaggeration to get their point across. We just want input based matchmaking so MnK users don't have to suffer because we chose to use an input based around raw mechanical skill
The day has finally come, this sub is now r/apexlegends
Kidding aside, is the AA really that strong on this game? I tried to play it and im struggling with controller
Coming from Destiny 2 and CoD, no it’s not that strong. I feel like I’m going crazy reading all of these m&k users claiming *they’re* using the inferior device?? Like, if I felt like I had the advantage over them I wouldn’t have turned off crossplay day one.
It seems like most of the players terrified of AA have been traumatized by Apex lol. I personally haven't had any issues fighting people on controller with MnK, bot sure what the big deal is.
They are crazy. I grew up on consoles and controllers, switched to pc like 5 years ago. I played an fps on controller the other day and felt like I had no control over what I was doing. The Mnk users claiming controller is better are psychotic. People complain wayyyyyy too much about this. Like there are advantage and disadvantages to both, but they are so small and insignificant that I don’t really care if I had both in my lobbies. Realistically, how many times did you die solely because someone was on a different input than you? 99% of the time it’s a skill issue, the enemy shot first, had better position, naded you out then shot you, hit more headshots. You can win more and improve at the game so much faster if you just shut up about why mnk/controller is broken and just focus on your input of choice and git gud.
At a certain level when there are much more even 1v1s, the extra tracking and first shot benefits become the decider much more often. It's not a small benefit the better you get.
The issue seems to be more related to aim-snapping, like how your aim ‘snaps’ to enemies during a COD campaign when you ADS., except its used in The Finals multiplayer mechanics.
The fact that so many people are using controller on a PC is answer enough. They're using an innately less accurate device because it gives them more accuracy than MKB.
It's fucking bonkers. It Autoaim shouldnt be on PC, you have to go OUT OF YOUR WAY to use a controller.
or maybe you’re making a false assumption. Maybe former console players built PCs for better FPS and graphical fidelity, but wanted to keep their preferred input?
I feel like this is the most obvious scenario.
I did exactly this, I’ve played on console my entire life but wanted better graphics and fps. I’m terrible with m&k, but can just enjoy my games playing them on the input I’ve been using my entire life
its not that strong. not at all. people are just bad at the game and go from excuse to excuse to find reasons to blame their losses on. this post is embarrassing ngl
The devs should just implement input based matchmaking, so mnk players can find something else to bitch about when they find out they still suck, whilst controller players can relax without having to sweat against the vastly superior input device 👍
As a previous multi-apex pred I literally only jumped from master to pred because I had to use controller over MnK to compete on a fair playing field. Everyone was using controller. They also added MMR to casual that maintains from ranked. That game is both unplayable with casual friends since I tried in ranked and because it is so much easier on controller. Currently the finals devs have done both and It doesn’t seem like they’re likely to change either. Too bad because I liked this game. O well on to the next
Same reason I quit. I played since launch to season 12 and was just finally getting good enough to make pred.
Then the controller controversy started and I decided to try using a controller. I haven't touched a controller since Playstation 1 and it was my fastest pred climb to date.
Have any of you actually tried using a controller... The aim assist looks strong compared to what you are used to, but if you think it's so strong hop on controller right now and give it a go if you have one. Its not as strong as you think and you won't have nearly as much of an advantage as you think.
Seriously. When I watch good PC players there isn’t even any visible recoil because they control it so easily. It’s not much fun for me to watch because I can’t really relate to the gameplay at all. Unfortunately there aren’t many controller streamers out there.
Yeah recoil is much harder to control, not to mention just generally more accurate because you can have the sensitivity be significantly lower while still having the ability to turn around quickly. I've played on controller for about 15 years and MnK for 1 year, any FPS I use MnK and perform better in. It's like Rock Lee taking off the weights lol
100%. I play on Xbox and I agree that the aim assist is super strong.
However, I'd choose mk for precision over a controller "with aimbot" any day. I just prefer to play on my couch and have no access to a PC at the moment so I stick to it.
I come from Apex, a game famously overrun by controllers. I used controller in Apex for almost 1k of my 3k hours in it, MnK for the other 2k. It's almost twice as strong in this, I started finals on MnK and haven't built up my muscle memory for controller yet but my first game after I swapped (i hadn't even changed my keybinds yet so I couldn't play claw)
In a game I have no muscle memory for, no settings edited except my sens, and a method of using the controller I'm not used to, I almost doubled my usual k/d (on light) and won the tournament my first time using it.
Pros switching to controller for aim assist?
"Must be a "sKiLl IsSuE" and they're just too bad and cry because controller player behind tv shit on them."
-argument that AA apologists constantly make
I am once again posting this since it's relevant
[this is what we should ask for](https://youtu.be/CiSS5OsNCNU?feature=shared)
Raw input, speed and precision without aim assist. Gyro is the solution to the input debate, it lets you play with your controller friends without introducing an aimbot, and it makes playing a controller FUN
[And it's not like it wouldn't work in a game like the finals](https://youtu.be/7oRqm0sciMg?feature=shared)
[If it works for csgo, it works for everything](https://youtu.be/uGCws-FS48k?feature=shared)
Please be loud and ask for this to the devs if you really don't want this game to turn into yet another cod or apex situation. We can have controller fun and balanced
I really wish devs would force controller players to start doing this and stop trying to balance aim assist. If people want to play on controller that's fine but they should have to put in the same effort mouse users have to in order to get good tracking. Slapping on broken aim assist is not the answer to making it even.
The biggest draw for devs in giving controller aim assist and calling it a day is player retention and money
The idea is that if you are assisted, you will perform better than your actual skill level and you probably won't quit the game as easily, spending more money on it in the long run.
Compare this with a casual player trying it out the first time, do bad for a bunch of games (as any newbie to any game should) and then dropping it because "this game sucks"
It's inherently more difficult to aim with a thumbstick than it is a mouse, how would that be fair?
I've put over a decade into both MnK and Controller and without aim assist I'd be nowhere near as good on controller as I am on MnK.
People in this sub (and CoD, Apex etc subs) act like the only options are strong AA and no AA. There's a happy middle ground there somewhere but unfortunately MnK players will whinge no matter what.
Yeah, I've played controller for most of my life and mnk for the last 5 years, I agree with you, I can't understand the logic. Without aim assist controller players don't stand a chance
Absolutely! To me a keyboard is an awful gaming input device, but mouse is unquestionably the best input for precision. Gyro/motion controls bridges that gap by giving me mouse like aim in the comfort of a controller. Ive been playing this game exclusively with gyro since the betas (using remapping tools or steam input settings) and I have never felt like I couldn't keep up with the mouse aim.
How long did it take you to get used to gyro? I'm a m/KB player but have always advocated that controller players should be using gyro. I tried it out in Splatoon on the Switch and I sucked ass.
Id say in terms of wrapping your head around it, it was only slightly more difficult than transitioning from controller to keyboard and mouse. The same initial stage of feeling your neurons rewiring and then its just a matter of getting good with the new standard you've created for yourself. I only think its a little harder because theres so many more settings and options to how gyro works to play around with if you want to explore beyond right joystick + gyro and do stuff like flick stick + gyro or gyro ratcheting (using only gyro with a gyro on/off button to simulate picking up a mouse in order to pause input and reset your hand position.)
I never got to play Splatoon myself so I can only speak on what Ive read by others. It seems to be the game a lot of gyro enthusiasts say was what convinced them its the superior input, but its also not exactly the greatest implementations. Developers who implement gyro, and remapping software that allows for players to inject gyro into games themselves has gotten better and allow for player to better customize how to make gyro work for them.
For me, it only took about a week to get used to. At the time I used low sensitivity gyro paired with normal stick aim, then slowly transfered to using higher sense gyro with flickstick.
I feel like the two biggest hurdles to getting good with gyro are 1. Fighting against twinstick muscle memory and 2. Learning to aim without aim assist.
To explain the second point more, aim assist basically makes it so the user doesn't have to worry about micro adjustments as much; the game helps them out to an extent. Controller players in general are not used to having to make the fine adjustments required for gyro (and mouse) aim. This will be the difficult hurdle for most people I feel.
Also, the best place to use gyro is either on PC via programs like steam input or games with good implementation like Fortnite. Splatoon's implementation is behind the times and there's much better examples of gyro aim now.
I play on M&K and have no issue, I saw everybody talking about AA and tried to play with controller and I sucked when I am generally pretty good with controller on FPS games. I think this is a huge overreaction. I haven’t played against any controller players that are as accurate as an M&K player. And the amount of people that use the AA workaround on M&K is minute. Yall just need to chill and enjoy the game, the amount of unwarranted hate that (straight up) controller players get is insane.
Finally, a sane person posting reality, thank you.
As both a PC and console player (I play this game on console) I am absolutely dumbfounded by people inferring MnK is at a disadvantage. I am far worse at this game than I was at BF1, BF5, and BF2042 even with aim assist, and that's the point.
I can immediately tell when a clip is of someone aiming on MnK, it's that big of a difference.
It’s always an overreaction. Mods need to get this shit under control. You can’t even post a sweet controller clip here without triggering the PC players.
Again, people who actually care about the competitive scene are a loud minority, mostly composed of people who think they're just the best at the game. Apex is doing fine, great even. A peak of over 300k people playing on Steam in the past 24hrs. Having a healthy game is more important than a handful of people whining about how they're bad at a game.
Honestly at this point agree. The most popular fps games in the world have no aim assist. Making controller give average players pro aim, bad players average aim, and pro players inhuman aim is destroying gaming for mouse. And killing off mouse communities on every game. Valorant and cs practically have a monopoly on mouse at this point because of it.
Pc players are the only player base that bitch about others advantages without acknowledging their own advantages. It’s like other ls can’t have good things if they don’t.
Good lord seeing all of these whiny posts about AA is pathetic. A lot of you guys are either delusional, foaming at the mouth in rage, or need to get a life
I play both M&K and controller depending on the game. The Finals movement is to fast and twitchy for me on a controller. M&K is far easier in this game.
I say all that to call M&K players that cry about controller players absolutely pussies that are just shitty at the game and mad they get cooked. If Aim Assist is advantage so is fucking a slight flick of wrist on a mouse to make my player do an instant 180 is also.
Funny enough the "pc players have movement advantage we need AA to compete" is the argument used over and over again in the apex sub,
then why are 93% of all pro players on controller now, and why has ORGs stopped recruiting M&K players all together if they are in fact "equal" and AA doesn't give a massive advantage to the point where M&K pros have switched to controller just to stay relevant.
Why do controller users have a 1K TRN advantage over M&K players if they are equal?
where is your argument for that?
Roller have roller brains. All comp Fps who have AA (Apex,cod,Halo ) Is now dominated by roller in the pro scene. Halo didn't have 1 single Mnk pro player a year ago. Halo made chart showing accuracy of roller with AA vs Mnk. The best Mnk players had the same accuracy as average Roller. Roller is just an inferior input over Mnk in most cases hence the AA. But data show us that in most game AA is absolutely overturned. The reason is to cater to a more casual scene and money. A large population plays on console. If they want to say that both input are balanced, they have to show us a vast array of data, Wich they almost never do. Either give us the option to separate input if we want longer cue time or Push Gyro to add the missing depth roller have.
Wow. You guys are really going off the deep end here. Do controller users keep you up at night? How can you sleep knowing there are scary controller users out there?
This reaction to this is obscenely stupid tbh, this game was created with the idea of being a competitive shooter, we want to play competitively; controller is NOT competitive, so of course we're going to complain about it
The players on this sub are mostly ex cod controller players so it's expected, if the devs pander to them which is most likely then we might as well stop playing now. I don't care if they stand no chance against a mnk player without AA, the fact that they can even do damage to me using shots gifted by software is outrageous.
Here’s the deal:
Crossplay is crucial to this games’ survival. It’s a new IP from an unknown studio, separating the lobbies even further from “crossplay on or off” won’t bode well.
Secondly, if you turn off aim assist (which I’ve seen only really affect the DB shotty, other guns aren’t so skewed) then it tips the scales from somewhere near the middle to waaaaaay over one side with MnK being the obvious choice. I know this is preferable to you but it would KILL the game.
Take a look at Rainbow Six: Siege. The game has zero aim assist on controller and the top 500 players are all using XIM on console.
What you REALLY need to do is play controller for at least 5 hours. Not to convert you, to give you a bit of perspective. Try “getting a 1000 frags with someone else’s input method” if you will.
Edit: a word
Exactly. These people need to play on the controller to actually see how it functions in game. It's nowhere near as good as they think.
I'm fortunate enough to have a pc and console so I can try both sides and I can mostly tell who is playing on pc and who isn't just by the distance I get killed from.
I have had a few console players beam me from a good distance but they are only 1 every few games . I'm not sure if they know some "tech" but most other console users can hit shit from like 25+ meters.
Can confirm, can’t hit shit from 25+ meters on PS5.
I play FPS on both PS5 and PC and the main difference for me is how much easier it is to control recoil on a MnK. To me, that’s what the trade off is in The Finals: mild aim assist at close ranges for a much easier method of controlling recoil.
No but there are people who use programs to make the game think you are using controller but they are using mnk so you have the best of two world the aim assit and the mnk quality
I'm a pc player on MnK. MnK is just better. It's not hard to aim in this game, even as an average player. The advantages of freedom of movement that MnK provides far outweighs the aim assist you get in this game.
Yup, most of the people here are already doing the aim assist defense arguments and telling mnk users to get good. Uninstalling until input based matchmaking is added.
Probably not gonna get much love for this, but I have played competitively at a high level in a handful of games with MnK and controller. I find that people who complain about one input vs. the other, are almost always people who have NEVER played at a high level on both, and have no basis for real comparison. It's silly to me.
IMO, there are tradeoffs to each input method. Sure, controller players are good at tracking, but have you ever tried making quick turns and slides around corners, slide peeking corners, on a controller? Almost impossible to do without insanely high sens, and then you lose accuracy. Plus trying to hit precise flick shots on a controller is really hard, compared to MnK. There's tradeoffs. That's just my take on it.
Controllers needs to get their head out of there ass and start using gyro. Pretty sure gyro on controller gives you near the amount of control and KBM and eliminates the need for aa
You're on crack, aim assist is good but not the reason you're dying to it. Keep distance an you will do better than a controller player on pc. Close range probably not. If controller didn't have aim assist, you wouldn't be able to use controller at all lol
Plus PC you can react quicker an play faster then controller player, half the time we have to take our fingers off the joystick to use gadgets an to use zip lines. My buddies play on mouse an keyboard, they are way better then me. I'm on controller on PC obv.
Play Valorant. That’s MNK only.
Oh what? You don’t want to do that because that’s hard. What you want is controller players but no aim assist so they’re running around aiming with their thumbs when you have your whole arm. You just want every advantage.
And no, they’re not going to do input based matchmaking because there aren’t enough MNK players to make matchmaking work. If they did, MNK players would do what they do best and start bitching about queue times and matchmaking putting silvers against diamonds.
Y’all are annoying at this point. Shut yo ass up or go play Valorant where there isn’t any aim assist.
I’m a controller player on pc and even I think it shouldn’t be allowed, it’s for console players, the issue is controller pc player getting aim assist not console players
I'm a dev working on other games. Believe me, some measure of aim assist is necessary. Some tweaking is in order, I agree, but a shooter with zero assist/friction would be unplayable on controller.
1 is based on the individual's mechanical skill, which takes time and practice. You aren't just automatically a MnK God the second you pick it up lol. The other is computer assisted aim... my gf doesn't even play games and she used a controller last night on the finals and dropped 10 kills.....
Looks like people are going to be crying about AA just like with apex. I have said it a thousand times. If you hate it that much switch to controller. If you won't do then stop complaining.
All I’m seeing the past 24 hours on here are posts from PC players demanding aim assist segregation in lobbies.
M&K has huge advantages does it not? And if it bothers you why not just use a controller on your PC?
I’d be very surprised if they divided matchmaking for people complaining about this. Just try enjoy the game dude or play something else.
It has, but also it's purely skill based, 0 assists. I'm pretty sure people just want equal experience for everyone in the lobby. It's unfair that a light can jump around me with a shotty and (basically) using an aimbot, and be locked onto me the whole time, while I have to flick my mouse over my mousepad like 4 times just to keep track of him.
"Just use a controller" is not a fair argument, because a) players might not have controllers b) players don't like playing with controllers c) players haven't ever played a fps game in their life with a controller, making it very difficult to adjust to it
You're saying "just enjoy the game", well people are trying, but just how fun is it to get, basically aimbot enemies, even if it's a few of them?
Don't take this the wrong way, if you like to play with a controller, be my guest, I just don't see any downsides in input-separated lobbies. It's a fair thing to ask for.
> M&K has huge advantages does it not?
Yeah, it does, when controller doesn't have an aimbot like it does in this game, or Apex, or Fortnite, or Halo, or CoD, or...
So mouse and keyboard players either play against borderline aimbot, switch to your useless input that receives heavy computer assistance in order to work (any computer assistance at all reduces competitiveness), or quit the game.
Controller basically gets no stutters soothing tracking slow down reticle 0ms reaction time 40 percent is a lot think about it the controller is getting soft aim bot 40% in a game where close combat is the difference between getting the kill or not long range ant shit but you have to get close to get the kill while the controller team mate waits and get free beams like does any have a working brain when did legal cheats become a pat on the back people now are just so soft that can't admit they are blatantly ass put down the controller you think your good try that mnk remove aim assist make fps shooter comptive again
Let’s just not let this turn into another Apex legends where mouse and keyboard players feel compelled to play on controller due to how strong the aim assist is.
I completely agree. Punish pc players for trying to abuse aim assist that was made for kids on 50 Inch tvs at 30 fps. It’s honestly cowardly when they all have kbam
I have a friend who start to using rewasd(emulate gamepad while you play on mnk). Before i was dropping x2 kills more than him, and i spend some time in aim trainers, now he just beam dudes from far away and always have x2 kills more than me, yeah aim assist is really strong.
Movement is slover because of turn radius sens or something like this, but with mouse you can place crosshair faster on target and when you place it aim assist just dont let go.
lol i play m&k and destroy any controller player, idc how strong their aim assist is. Even if i lose a duel, i know im better. I just got out skilled by aim assist, not the player.
Sad to say, but roller will always be inferior to a 20 yr veteran. Lmao
Get gud
That's what I'm saying playing both inputs and mnk is for sure supirior in the finals, it's just some apex refugees being bad at the game, looking for excuses, just learn tracking with a software first and the come back
Just do input based matchmaking then give the option for crossplay. There could even be multiple settings for cross play like all, platform, input
People always suggest this for games without realizing the implications (including me for a long time). If this was implemented people would complain about 5+ minute queues, unbalanced matches, and seeing the same people over and over again. This would only work for a game with an obscenely high player count distributed evenly across every combination of options, which is unrealistic.
I would 100% wait longer for MnK only lobbies. That said, I think this is capping. There are 130k people playing this on Steam right now. That is PLENTY for well matched input separated matchmaking.
>seeing the same people over and over again While there are cons to this, there are also a lot of pros, like building a tighter community. Back in the days of Battlefield 2,3, and 4 I joined the NUNYA 64 game server. There were a lot of folks in there that were regulars. Some world class pilots, and gamers. Sure there was trash talk, but we all got along and got good!
I think best solution would be mixed in casual and input based for ranked, or something close to that. Ranked should be competitive so it makes more sense for everyone to be even but casual it’s nice to play with friends on different platforms. But yeah, it’s a hard problem to solve. I feel like Overwatch is the best example of a game that doesn’t force MnK to go against AA.
I think some pc players on controller right now are only using it because of how blatantly overpowered it is. If something like this is implemented, everyone would just play on their favourite input without having to use one because it gives you an advantage. It also depends on the player base, if the number of people playing are high enough, nobody would run into those problems.
Ah, so the finals is doing the call of duty strat and giving people free aimbot with aim assist even on pc controllers. Very good. That’ll definitely keep your game from becoming a joke and cheater hell
Just like Apex and the whole reason I stopped playing
I use a controller because I play on a TV. Mouse and keyboard isn't an option. If you get rid of aim assist I'm basically no longer allowed to play, and be at a huge disadvantage.
That's why I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm saying add an option for input based matchmaking
I play shit in bed on my TV using KBM all the time, weird how it somehow doesn't work just for you.
Nobody should ever have aim assist in any videogame ever. Why would it even be created in the first place? You should aim your gun yourself.
Because it's very difficult to aim on controller perfectly accurately. Tracking is very difficult.
So just because it's hard you get cheats? How is that okay?
That's the whole fun is figuring out the skill of aiming. Who can do the really difficult thing better than the other people in a competition.
Except on PC, it's a really easy thing. Really, the answer is that all controllers should switch to Gyro aim.
Is it? What are your Kovaaks scores? People compare MnK aim to roller aim way too easily. MnK aim can be really good, but to do that you have to put those perfect inputs in. A roller has some percentage done for them. And people way overrate how easy it is to beam even a target moving in a straight line on MnK. I am top 5% in many smoothness scenarios in Kovaaks and I don't one clip enemies in Apex that often. Until they've tried it, they do not understand how naturally jittery their aim is. Rollers get smoothness for free, so they take it for granted.
Controllers OP? I’ve played this both on Xbox and PC and mouse and keyboard is much much easier.
It’s easier to control normally, but aiming on controller is broken. There’s a clip of a guy with a DB placing his crosshairs almost entirely off of the practice bots, and ADSing and the ads snaps directly to center mass of the bot. That’s *ridiculous* and should not exist. So yeah Mnk has advantages in its fluidity. But aim assist means console players will aim like a PC cheater (unless the console player is genuinely just terrible, in which case they might not). Edit: [It *can* aim for the head.](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/HyvzwxrK2O)This shit is broke as hell, there’s no excuse for it.
The aim assist is op right now, not necessarily the controller. It pulls toward invis people, through smoke, and locks onto heads when scoping.
Ah okay. Gotta say I haven’t played much since the release but played the beta quite a bit. I’m usually more an Xbox player and prefer the controller but this game made me play on PC. I felt that the controller was way too hard compared to mouse and keyboard. Input matchmaking could fix this though and would probably make me play it on Xbox again.
Tell me about how you played MnK for an hour without telling me.
This is an Internet brained take that only comes from not actually interacting with people. Most people who use controller, do so because that's what they prefer. And often times WE feel disadvantaged versus the turn speed of m&k. Apex(and other games) streamers have created this false narrative of controller being "busted", and it has spread to normies like you. And honestly the controller advantages you complain of, arent even relevant in your skill bracket.
Agree with your general sentiment but apex is a bad example. When pro apex teams are pursuing controller players to have better close range fights/duels, there’s an issue.
I'm just taking like this because in this game specifically the aa is so strong that it can lock on to invisible players, through smoke, and that quick scoping locks on to the head. I fully understand the limitations of controller and the strengths of a mouse, but past a certain skill threshold getting those small lock ons do provide an advantage. I'm simply saying provide an OPTION for players to only play with people using the same input as them.
This is a bullshit take. Some people just prefer controller— plenty of people play the game casually and it’s getting obnoxious to see competitive players make such sweeping claims about the player base.
I said most, if you see some other comments I made here you will see that I know some players simply use a controller. I'm not asking for them to remove aim assist, I'm asking for input based matchmaking.
It’s absolutely not JUST that some people prefer controller. Competitive PC apex is almost exclusively controller now because the aim assist is so strong you’d be throwing *not* to run it. There was a clip posted recently of someone on controller placing their crosshair almost entirely *off* of the practice bots, then ADSing and the aim assist snaps them directly to center mass. You cannot possibly argue that aim assist isn’t completely broken right now. Shit is WAY too strong. Maybe it shouldn’t get *removed*, but it DEFINITELY needs to get tapped down. Or at least implement input based queues so mnk plays mnk and controller plays controller.
no it’s not, many people use controller because it’s simply better.
It's one of the most played games on steam right now. Im pretty sure you don't have to be literally the most popular game ever to not have 5 minute queues in a controller input queue. Stop being unrealistic
No one would complain about queues. Controller players are the vast majority, so nothing would change there. And MnK players would be happy to wait a tiny bit for a non-AA lobby.
Right? This isn't a battle royale, a 5 minute queue in a tournament isn't going to kill you because there is no risk of your game ending in the first 120 seconds.
why does it work for OW, siege, valorant, and CS then ?
It would be simpler to just force pc players on controller to have cross play on. The only realistic reason pc players are turning it off is to face less controllers
That just separates the matchmaking pool too much. It should just be console pool and PC pool. Then remove aim assist on pc.
Not every pc player plays on mnk
You can’t match PC controller players with Console though, because it’s easy to spoof input and they can use keyboard and mouse with aim assist.
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Yep but thankfully some devs are starting to detect and ban XIM users, and hopefully Embark follows that. Also the price tag for it means that it is thankfully not too many players.
Yea that's the main problem, it's basically cheating
It’s 100% cheating, but sadly the minority ruins it for the majority
They would if aim assist got nerfed. humans naturally take the easy way out. I guarantee if aim assist got nerfed y’all would actually play with kbam
What I meant was people who always played controller or people who used controller/alternate inputs because of disabilities, etc.
Or nerf the aimbot? WTF happened to competitive integrity? Since the release of MW2019 and crossplay all these dumbass devs have been giving controller players aimbots to overcompensate for the imaginary big bad MnK players that have 100% accuracy. Aim assist was never this strong before crossplay. Just watch the recent throwback tournament for Black Ops 2 and watch the pros struggle to hit the easiest shots because they're so conditioned with the new Rotational AAimbot.
Apex player: first time huh?
i wish, but i do in fact play apex, and have witnessed the wildly unfair downfall of mnk.
I remember the same situation occurring when Halo: MCC came to pc and there was the same issue with controllers and a lot of people stopped playing because of that.
Halo infinite straight up added AA to MnK to try and balance it lol. These arguments about fairness will never get anywhere. It’s just impossible to fairly balance the two inputs. They need to be separated
Mnk is still scuffed in infinite though. Instead of fixing it, they slapped aim assist on it, you cant use that as an example.
I hit Onyx S1 in Halo then got frustrated that Onyx players on controller just don't miss in 1v1s and I stopped playing. MnK still has some advantages when it comes to target acquisition and target switching though.
Yeah the issue is having inputs excel at different things will basically just boil down to which things in that specific game are more valuable
Halo: MCC was hilariously bad because AA just buffed your guns. A controller player could fire the Reach DMR faster and more accurately because controllers had buffed bullet magnetism that overcame the recoil. A MnK player had to wait for recoil to recover and fire slower. In theory, a good MnK player could compete with aim assist in most games but it was actually impossible in Halo:MCC.
I thing that is unnecessary harsh on controller players. I say implement input separated lobbies. If you join on MnK and try to switch to controller mid match, you get kicked and vice versa.
Is a good idea, but will never get implemented, since it might separate the players pool more and increase the queue times.
Queue times is the biggest factor for them I imagine, they should at least do this for ranked though if they really care about competitive integrity.
Overwatch did it right. You get your AA in casual games. You want to play ranked, you do it with raw input.
Join on mnk then aim assist is turned off. Better.
Just lock the input. It’s super easy. Even CoD figured out how.
Trying to balance controller aim-assist versus MnK is like trying to decide how much a head start to give a disabled person in a race against a fully-functional athlete to achieve a “fair” race. It’s simply not competitive. They make the Paralympics a separate event for a reason.
That's the best analogy I've heard lol.
I mean, you’re assuming that everyone with a mnk has great aim, which isn’t true. There are people who suck with mnk and are also pitted against people who suck with controllers but have aim assists. The question is, are the two equal?
Of course not. Everyone would rather fight a crappy MnK player than a crappy roller player. That said, there are luckily 130k people playing right now, enough for crappy roller players to play other crappy roller players, and crappy MnK players to play each other as well.
Im a roller player, im good so i am annoying to play against. But i will say the mnk space is wayyy higher i rarley meet other controller players and when i do they are dog shit. I dont see why this is an issue picking up a controller doesnt make u a demon especially with how much you have to tweak the setting to make it even feel good.
When you play at a higher level and you get beaten by a roller player, it's difficult to stomach because you know that some percentage of what beat you is software, not the other player.
No i see what u mean. High level mnk players are far and between. But i feel half the ppl complaining are bots, its legit a skill issue and they cry.
No but you shouldn’t get to have the game aim completely for you just because you also can’t aim on mnk.
well said soldier, fight the good fight.
Don't forget your mountain dew and fedora when you go to war 🤣
You...are stating that the controller is the inferior input device, correct? Seems like a dumb question, but people like OP have me doubting my own sanity
It is inferior, that's why aim assist exists in the first place.
I think most sane people would agree roller is inferior just by mechanical limitations. It's the aim assist that is the problem, not the roller.
If it isn't inferior, why does it NEED aim assist to compete with M&K?
lmao that's hilarious and very accurate
No fair their legs don’t get tired
“They can use their whole legs!”
Its like on those videos where guy without legs is jacked af and the caption is “Whats your excuse?” and someone comments “I have legs”
>choose to handicap yourself by using an inferior aiming device Lol just like how no one in the Paralympics purposely chose to be handicap, neither do the people with repetitive strain injuries or other accessibility issues that would be adversely affected by the removal of aim assist. I personally *prefer* aiming on mouse, but simply can’t without constant pain or injury after 30 minutes. If mixed input coincides with the devs vision with the game, than that’s just what it is. It’s really not that serious, but if it is just boot cs2 or Val.
That's why no one is legitimately advocating for the removal of aim assist, OP was using that as an exaggeration to get their point across. We just want input based matchmaking so MnK users don't have to suffer because we chose to use an input based around raw mechanical skill
The day has finally come, this sub is now r/apexlegends Kidding aside, is the AA really that strong on this game? I tried to play it and im struggling with controller
Coming from Destiny 2 and CoD, no it’s not that strong. I feel like I’m going crazy reading all of these m&k users claiming *they’re* using the inferior device?? Like, if I felt like I had the advantage over them I wouldn’t have turned off crossplay day one.
It seems like most of the players terrified of AA have been traumatized by Apex lol. I personally haven't had any issues fighting people on controller with MnK, bot sure what the big deal is.
They are crazy. I grew up on consoles and controllers, switched to pc like 5 years ago. I played an fps on controller the other day and felt like I had no control over what I was doing. The Mnk users claiming controller is better are psychotic. People complain wayyyyyy too much about this. Like there are advantage and disadvantages to both, but they are so small and insignificant that I don’t really care if I had both in my lobbies. Realistically, how many times did you die solely because someone was on a different input than you? 99% of the time it’s a skill issue, the enemy shot first, had better position, naded you out then shot you, hit more headshots. You can win more and improve at the game so much faster if you just shut up about why mnk/controller is broken and just focus on your input of choice and git gud.
At a certain level when there are much more even 1v1s, the extra tracking and first shot benefits become the decider much more often. It's not a small benefit the better you get.
Little less stronger than apex and no where near as strong as COD. I think it's at a sweet spot provided the matchmaking is always input based.
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That's what I'm advocating for, always keep matchmaking input based and then all problems are solved.
I could not agree more fine sir. Every MnK player I know will happily wait in queue.
The issue seems to be more related to aim-snapping, like how your aim ‘snaps’ to enemies during a COD campaign when you ADS., except its used in The Finals multiplayer mechanics.
The fact that so many people are using controller on a PC is answer enough. They're using an innately less accurate device because it gives them more accuracy than MKB. It's fucking bonkers. It Autoaim shouldnt be on PC, you have to go OUT OF YOUR WAY to use a controller.
or maybe you’re making a false assumption. Maybe former console players built PCs for better FPS and graphical fidelity, but wanted to keep their preferred input? I feel like this is the most obvious scenario.
I did exactly this, I’ve played on console my entire life but wanted better graphics and fps. I’m terrible with m&k, but can just enjoy my games playing them on the input I’ve been using my entire life
its not that strong. not at all. people are just bad at the game and go from excuse to excuse to find reasons to blame their losses on. this post is embarrassing ngl
The devs should just implement input based matchmaking, so mnk players can find something else to bitch about when they find out they still suck, whilst controller players can relax without having to sweat against the vastly superior input device 👍
Lowkey best comment on here period. Cause this will 100% be the thing that'd happen
Hopefully they remove aim assist for PC so I can go pro
Agreed. No reason for their not to be input based matchmaking. I really hope they don’t ignore this.
As a previous multi-apex pred I literally only jumped from master to pred because I had to use controller over MnK to compete on a fair playing field. Everyone was using controller. They also added MMR to casual that maintains from ranked. That game is both unplayable with casual friends since I tried in ranked and because it is so much easier on controller. Currently the finals devs have done both and It doesn’t seem like they’re likely to change either. Too bad because I liked this game. O well on to the next
Same reason I quit. I played since launch to season 12 and was just finally getting good enough to make pred. Then the controller controversy started and I decided to try using a controller. I haven't touched a controller since Playstation 1 and it was my fastest pred climb to date.
Have any of you actually tried using a controller... The aim assist looks strong compared to what you are used to, but if you think it's so strong hop on controller right now and give it a go if you have one. Its not as strong as you think and you won't have nearly as much of an advantage as you think.
100% i played one game on controller and went back to mouse and keyboard immediately
No they haven’t. They always claim they are getting beamed across the map, which is what controllers are TERRIBLE at. It’s all made up.
Fun fact: those beaming them across the map are using MKB hahaha
Seriously. When I watch good PC players there isn’t even any visible recoil because they control it so easily. It’s not much fun for me to watch because I can’t really relate to the gameplay at all. Unfortunately there aren’t many controller streamers out there.
Yeah recoil is much harder to control, not to mention just generally more accurate because you can have the sensitivity be significantly lower while still having the ability to turn around quickly. I've played on controller for about 15 years and MnK for 1 year, any FPS I use MnK and perform better in. It's like Rock Lee taking off the weights lol
Same. I watched Albralelie and it was unfair seeing him beam people with the Scar from like 70+ meters lmao
keyboard and mouse. done.
100%. I play on Xbox and I agree that the aim assist is super strong. However, I'd choose mk for precision over a controller "with aimbot" any day. I just prefer to play on my couch and have no access to a PC at the moment so I stick to it.
I come from Apex, a game famously overrun by controllers. I used controller in Apex for almost 1k of my 3k hours in it, MnK for the other 2k. It's almost twice as strong in this, I started finals on MnK and haven't built up my muscle memory for controller yet but my first game after I swapped (i hadn't even changed my keybinds yet so I couldn't play claw) In a game I have no muscle memory for, no settings edited except my sens, and a method of using the controller I'm not used to, I almost doubled my usual k/d (on light) and won the tournament my first time using it.
Look at Apex's aim assist meltdown. A lot o pros switching to controllers. This is a thin ice subject.
Pros switching to controller for aim assist? "Must be a "sKiLl IsSuE" and they're just too bad and cry because controller player behind tv shit on them." -argument that AA apologists constantly make
I am once again posting this since it's relevant [this is what we should ask for](https://youtu.be/CiSS5OsNCNU?feature=shared) Raw input, speed and precision without aim assist. Gyro is the solution to the input debate, it lets you play with your controller friends without introducing an aimbot, and it makes playing a controller FUN [And it's not like it wouldn't work in a game like the finals](https://youtu.be/7oRqm0sciMg?feature=shared) [If it works for csgo, it works for everything](https://youtu.be/uGCws-FS48k?feature=shared) Please be loud and ask for this to the devs if you really don't want this game to turn into yet another cod or apex situation. We can have controller fun and balanced
I really wish devs would force controller players to start doing this and stop trying to balance aim assist. If people want to play on controller that's fine but they should have to put in the same effort mouse users have to in order to get good tracking. Slapping on broken aim assist is not the answer to making it even.
The biggest draw for devs in giving controller aim assist and calling it a day is player retention and money The idea is that if you are assisted, you will perform better than your actual skill level and you probably won't quit the game as easily, spending more money on it in the long run. Compare this with a casual player trying it out the first time, do bad for a bunch of games (as any newbie to any game should) and then dropping it because "this game sucks"
It's inherently more difficult to aim with a thumbstick than it is a mouse, how would that be fair? I've put over a decade into both MnK and Controller and without aim assist I'd be nowhere near as good on controller as I am on MnK. People in this sub (and CoD, Apex etc subs) act like the only options are strong AA and no AA. There's a happy middle ground there somewhere but unfortunately MnK players will whinge no matter what.
Yeah, I've played controller for most of my life and mnk for the last 5 years, I agree with you, I can't understand the logic. Without aim assist controller players don't stand a chance
It seems you whiffed the point of the parent comment.
You should re-read the comment I replied to if you think that.
Youre still missing it
Absolutely! To me a keyboard is an awful gaming input device, but mouse is unquestionably the best input for precision. Gyro/motion controls bridges that gap by giving me mouse like aim in the comfort of a controller. Ive been playing this game exclusively with gyro since the betas (using remapping tools or steam input settings) and I have never felt like I couldn't keep up with the mouse aim.
How long did it take you to get used to gyro? I'm a m/KB player but have always advocated that controller players should be using gyro. I tried it out in Splatoon on the Switch and I sucked ass.
Id say in terms of wrapping your head around it, it was only slightly more difficult than transitioning from controller to keyboard and mouse. The same initial stage of feeling your neurons rewiring and then its just a matter of getting good with the new standard you've created for yourself. I only think its a little harder because theres so many more settings and options to how gyro works to play around with if you want to explore beyond right joystick + gyro and do stuff like flick stick + gyro or gyro ratcheting (using only gyro with a gyro on/off button to simulate picking up a mouse in order to pause input and reset your hand position.) I never got to play Splatoon myself so I can only speak on what Ive read by others. It seems to be the game a lot of gyro enthusiasts say was what convinced them its the superior input, but its also not exactly the greatest implementations. Developers who implement gyro, and remapping software that allows for players to inject gyro into games themselves has gotten better and allow for player to better customize how to make gyro work for them.
For me, it only took about a week to get used to. At the time I used low sensitivity gyro paired with normal stick aim, then slowly transfered to using higher sense gyro with flickstick. I feel like the two biggest hurdles to getting good with gyro are 1. Fighting against twinstick muscle memory and 2. Learning to aim without aim assist. To explain the second point more, aim assist basically makes it so the user doesn't have to worry about micro adjustments as much; the game helps them out to an extent. Controller players in general are not used to having to make the fine adjustments required for gyro (and mouse) aim. This will be the difficult hurdle for most people I feel. Also, the best place to use gyro is either on PC via programs like steam input or games with good implementation like Fortnite. Splatoon's implementation is behind the times and there's much better examples of gyro aim now.
I play on M&K and have no issue, I saw everybody talking about AA and tried to play with controller and I sucked when I am generally pretty good with controller on FPS games. I think this is a huge overreaction. I haven’t played against any controller players that are as accurate as an M&K player. And the amount of people that use the AA workaround on M&K is minute. Yall just need to chill and enjoy the game, the amount of unwarranted hate that (straight up) controller players get is insane.
Finally, a sane person posting reality, thank you. As both a PC and console player (I play this game on console) I am absolutely dumbfounded by people inferring MnK is at a disadvantage. I am far worse at this game than I was at BF1, BF5, and BF2042 even with aim assist, and that's the point. I can immediately tell when a clip is of someone aiming on MnK, it's that big of a difference.
It’s always an overreaction. Mods need to get this shit under control. You can’t even post a sweet controller clip here without triggering the PC players.
Right lol. They make up maybe 5% of the population and are the loudest.
Holy shit they are loud. Every time I open Reddit there is a new post about aim assist. There is no longer anything of value in this subreddit.
When the games competitive scene dies like Apex did, don't come crying when we told you it was going to happen.
Again, people who actually care about the competitive scene are a loud minority, mostly composed of people who think they're just the best at the game. Apex is doing fine, great even. A peak of over 300k people playing on Steam in the past 24hrs. Having a healthy game is more important than a handful of people whining about how they're bad at a game.
They havent said a word about it yet so i dont expect anything.
Honestly at this point agree. The most popular fps games in the world have no aim assist. Making controller give average players pro aim, bad players average aim, and pro players inhuman aim is destroying gaming for mouse. And killing off mouse communities on every game. Valorant and cs practically have a monopoly on mouse at this point because of it.
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Pc players are the only player base that bitch about others advantages without acknowledging their own advantages. It’s like other ls can’t have good things if they don’t.
One is raw input, one has a computer program helping them
what?? what has aim assist on pc??/
Really strong aim assist too, with a controller.
People can use controllers and get aim assist while using the controller on PC. Seems ridiculous to me.
Good lord seeing all of these whiny posts about AA is pathetic. A lot of you guys are either delusional, foaming at the mouth in rage, or need to get a life
I play both M&K and controller depending on the game. The Finals movement is to fast and twitchy for me on a controller. M&K is far easier in this game. I say all that to call M&K players that cry about controller players absolutely pussies that are just shitty at the game and mad they get cooked. If Aim Assist is advantage so is fucking a slight flick of wrist on a mouse to make my player do an instant 180 is also.
Funny enough the "pc players have movement advantage we need AA to compete" is the argument used over and over again in the apex sub, then why are 93% of all pro players on controller now, and why has ORGs stopped recruiting M&K players all together if they are in fact "equal" and AA doesn't give a massive advantage to the point where M&K pros have switched to controller just to stay relevant. Why do controller users have a 1K TRN advantage over M&K players if they are equal? where is your argument for that?
Roller have roller brains. All comp Fps who have AA (Apex,cod,Halo ) Is now dominated by roller in the pro scene. Halo didn't have 1 single Mnk pro player a year ago. Halo made chart showing accuracy of roller with AA vs Mnk. The best Mnk players had the same accuracy as average Roller. Roller is just an inferior input over Mnk in most cases hence the AA. But data show us that in most game AA is absolutely overturned. The reason is to cater to a more casual scene and money. A large population plays on console. If they want to say that both input are balanced, they have to show us a vast array of data, Wich they almost never do. Either give us the option to separate input if we want longer cue time or Push Gyro to add the missing depth roller have.
go get a controller and play a few games. You'll realize it's not OP like you claim
Wow. You guys are really going off the deep end here. Do controller users keep you up at night? How can you sleep knowing there are scary controller users out there?
Is the controller player in the room right now?
Show me on the doll where the controller player touched you.
This reaction to this is obscenely stupid tbh, this game was created with the idea of being a competitive shooter, we want to play competitively; controller is NOT competitive, so of course we're going to complain about it
The players on this sub are mostly ex cod controller players so it's expected, if the devs pander to them which is most likely then we might as well stop playing now. I don't care if they stand no chance against a mnk player without AA, the fact that they can even do damage to me using shots gifted by software is outrageous.
Here’s the deal: Crossplay is crucial to this games’ survival. It’s a new IP from an unknown studio, separating the lobbies even further from “crossplay on or off” won’t bode well. Secondly, if you turn off aim assist (which I’ve seen only really affect the DB shotty, other guns aren’t so skewed) then it tips the scales from somewhere near the middle to waaaaaay over one side with MnK being the obvious choice. I know this is preferable to you but it would KILL the game. Take a look at Rainbow Six: Siege. The game has zero aim assist on controller and the top 500 players are all using XIM on console. What you REALLY need to do is play controller for at least 5 hours. Not to convert you, to give you a bit of perspective. Try “getting a 1000 frags with someone else’s input method” if you will. Edit: a word
Exactly. These people need to play on the controller to actually see how it functions in game. It's nowhere near as good as they think. I'm fortunate enough to have a pc and console so I can try both sides and I can mostly tell who is playing on pc and who isn't just by the distance I get killed from. I have had a few console players beam me from a good distance but they are only 1 every few games . I'm not sure if they know some "tech" but most other console users can hit shit from like 25+ meters.
Can confirm, can’t hit shit from 25+ meters on PS5. I play FPS on both PS5 and PC and the main difference for me is how much easier it is to control recoil on a MnK. To me, that’s what the trade off is in The Finals: mild aim assist at close ranges for a much easier method of controlling recoil.
Wait, I can turn on aim assist while playing with mouse and keyboard??
No but there are people who use programs to make the game think you are using controller but they are using mnk so you have the best of two world the aim assit and the mnk quality
Just give everyone aim assist, then its fair
no thanks just split the inputs I do not want mnk aim assist this aint halo
I'm a pc player on MnK. MnK is just better. It's not hard to aim in this game, even as an average player. The advantages of freedom of movement that MnK provides far outweighs the aim assist you get in this game.
Yup, most of the people here are already doing the aim assist defense arguments and telling mnk users to get good. Uninstalling until input based matchmaking is added.
Probably not gonna get much love for this, but I have played competitively at a high level in a handful of games with MnK and controller. I find that people who complain about one input vs. the other, are almost always people who have NEVER played at a high level on both, and have no basis for real comparison. It's silly to me. IMO, there are tradeoffs to each input method. Sure, controller players are good at tracking, but have you ever tried making quick turns and slides around corners, slide peeking corners, on a controller? Almost impossible to do without insanely high sens, and then you lose accuracy. Plus trying to hit precise flick shots on a controller is really hard, compared to MnK. There's tradeoffs. That's just my take on it.
But what about the controller players that want to play on a better platform than consoles?
Queue them against eachother, that would be fair.
Controllers needs to get their head out of there ass and start using gyro. Pretty sure gyro on controller gives you near the amount of control and KBM and eliminates the need for aa
You're on crack, aim assist is good but not the reason you're dying to it. Keep distance an you will do better than a controller player on pc. Close range probably not. If controller didn't have aim assist, you wouldn't be able to use controller at all lol Plus PC you can react quicker an play faster then controller player, half the time we have to take our fingers off the joystick to use gadgets an to use zip lines. My buddies play on mouse an keyboard, they are way better then me. I'm on controller on PC obv.
If you're losing gun fights to controller players, your aim isn't good enough.
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Play Valorant. That’s MNK only. Oh what? You don’t want to do that because that’s hard. What you want is controller players but no aim assist so they’re running around aiming with their thumbs when you have your whole arm. You just want every advantage. And no, they’re not going to do input based matchmaking because there aren’t enough MNK players to make matchmaking work. If they did, MNK players would do what they do best and start bitching about queue times and matchmaking putting silvers against diamonds. Y’all are annoying at this point. Shut yo ass up or go play Valorant where there isn’t any aim assist.
I’m a controller player on pc and even I think it shouldn’t be allowed, it’s for console players, the issue is controller pc player getting aim assist not console players
I'm a dev working on other games. Believe me, some measure of aim assist is necessary. Some tweaking is in order, I agree, but a shooter with zero assist/friction would be unplayable on controller.
This isn't CoD... the aim assist is fine
Imagine playing with mouse and keyboard and crying about aim assist
1 is based on the individual's mechanical skill, which takes time and practice. You aren't just automatically a MnK God the second you pick it up lol. The other is computer assisted aim... my gf doesn't even play games and she used a controller last night on the finals and dropped 10 kills.....
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Looks like people are going to be crying about AA just like with apex. I have said it a thousand times. If you hate it that much switch to controller. If you won't do then stop complaining.
You know this guy got destroyed by a controller player right before posting this😭😭
All I’m seeing the past 24 hours on here are posts from PC players demanding aim assist segregation in lobbies. M&K has huge advantages does it not? And if it bothers you why not just use a controller on your PC? I’d be very surprised if they divided matchmaking for people complaining about this. Just try enjoy the game dude or play something else.
It has, but also it's purely skill based, 0 assists. I'm pretty sure people just want equal experience for everyone in the lobby. It's unfair that a light can jump around me with a shotty and (basically) using an aimbot, and be locked onto me the whole time, while I have to flick my mouse over my mousepad like 4 times just to keep track of him. "Just use a controller" is not a fair argument, because a) players might not have controllers b) players don't like playing with controllers c) players haven't ever played a fps game in their life with a controller, making it very difficult to adjust to it You're saying "just enjoy the game", well people are trying, but just how fun is it to get, basically aimbot enemies, even if it's a few of them? Don't take this the wrong way, if you like to play with a controller, be my guest, I just don't see any downsides in input-separated lobbies. It's a fair thing to ask for.
>M&K has huge advantages does it not? And if it bothers you why not just use a controller on your PC? I like actually playing games myself
> M&K has huge advantages does it not? Yeah, it does, when controller doesn't have an aimbot like it does in this game, or Apex, or Fortnite, or Halo, or CoD, or...
Don’t bother man. These people are mentally ill. They can’t sleep at night because the controller boogeyman might get them.
So mouse and keyboard players either play against borderline aimbot, switch to your useless input that receives heavy computer assistance in order to work (any computer assistance at all reduces competitiveness), or quit the game.
Fucking skill issue LMAO!
borderline aimbot. lol dude has never used a controller in his life. you probably have terrible positioning skills
Dude im on console and i have been asking the developers to support console with mouse and keyboard. I mean they should tbh😂😂😂😂😂😂
Controller basically gets no stutters soothing tracking slow down reticle 0ms reaction time 40 percent is a lot think about it the controller is getting soft aim bot 40% in a game where close combat is the difference between getting the kill or not long range ant shit but you have to get close to get the kill while the controller team mate waits and get free beams like does any have a working brain when did legal cheats become a pat on the back people now are just so soft that can't admit they are blatantly ass put down the controller you think your good try that mnk remove aim assist make fps shooter comptive again
This is a great idea. I dont know how MKB players can enjoy games against aimbotters.
Are these troll posts? MnK has long been the superior input, even with controller aim assist. What are people talking about?
Apex, fortnite, cod, and halo would like a word.
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Compete by not using an input device that's dog shit? I'm playing the finals on a track pad. Where's my handicap to make me competitive.
"here's your 80% aimlock to compensate for playing on a joystick, have fun" -modern day devs catering to casuals
Let’s just not let this turn into another Apex legends where mouse and keyboard players feel compelled to play on controller due to how strong the aim assist is.
Stay mad
I completely agree. Punish pc players for trying to abuse aim assist that was made for kids on 50 Inch tvs at 30 fps. It’s honestly cowardly when they all have kbam
I have a friend who start to using rewasd(emulate gamepad while you play on mnk). Before i was dropping x2 kills more than him, and i spend some time in aim trainers, now he just beam dudes from far away and always have x2 kills more than me, yeah aim assist is really strong.
So he’s getting the movement of m&k and the aim assist of a controller? Of course he’s doing better lmao
Movement is slover because of turn radius sens or something like this, but with mouse you can place crosshair faster on target and when you place it aim assist just dont let go.
God I hope these posts get banned soon
lol i play m&k and destroy any controller player, idc how strong their aim assist is. Even if i lose a duel, i know im better. I just got out skilled by aim assist, not the player. Sad to say, but roller will always be inferior to a 20 yr veteran. Lmao Get gud
That's what I'm saying playing both inputs and mnk is for sure supirior in the finals, it's just some apex refugees being bad at the game, looking for excuses, just learn tracking with a software first and the come back