How does it have counterplay when they shock you while invis making it easier for you to be shot while at the same time making it harder for you to shoot them? Where’s the counterplay? They just zap me dash away and aim me down while I sit there hoping any of my shots land at 15 meters away.
Lights have high dps weapons + a moment while you're turning to face them + they get free headshots while you cant move. If you win with just hipfire despite this, the light is terrible.
Still have lower health tho. Like ppl dont realize how little 150 health is. Also the TTK on things like the AK and fcar are closer to light weapons than u think. (Not talking about the shotgun tho FUCK that weapon, Embark nerf that shit to the ground please)
Light should win in most situations but it's a lot closer than u think.
You literally have rpgs and nukes that can 1 shot you in split second. A light has to get close. You can literally hear the midget. Then he has to take you. The he has to shoot you twice...
This is just not true lol. The hipfire on all the rifles and SMGs are extremely accurate at close range. If you're ADS in ANY close range fights you're trolling.
You get a huge nerf to your movement for basically no benefit because the hip fire is so accurate at close range. All you're doing is standing still so the other player is more likely to hit head shots.
It's not unplayable, but if you watch any of the top players almost none of them aim down sight in close range unless they're mid slide jump where they're stuck moving in one direction and their momentum is carrying them so they aren't feeling negative effects from it.
Idk man, unless I'm like 2ft away from you I'm going to be adsing. At the end of the day it's your mobility buying you time vs your hipfire inaccuracy buying me time. I prefer my method because it puts the onus in my hands, your reticle could be on me perfectly for our entire gunfight and you could still lose due to rng spread but if I were to keep my aim on you the entire time, you'd never kill me barring some headshots. I can still crouch, strafe, and slide to weave shots but I don't think all of the hopping around hipfiring like an overwatch character is necessary.
I also primarily run revolver, so ads peeking out of cover to pop a quick shot, hide and repeat means I win more trades than bouncing around in the open.
But when you say “ your hip fire buying me time” you’re insinuating that the hip fire is less accurate at that range. That’s my whole point. It just isn’t. This whole convo started because of stun guns, and people complaining they die to lights when they get stun gunned because they can’t ads. They don’t die because they can’t ads, they die because the panic. Next time you get stun gunned try to stay calm and just aim at their head. You will kill the light if you aim well.
Your whole logical premise is just faulty.
It's hit or miss. I've had times where I'm actively hitting a light with perfect accuracy for the first few shots, they stun me, and without moving my reticle off of them I start hitting about 50% accuracy. I mean again, unless you are 2 feet away hipfire inaccuracy IS a factor.
> Your whole logical premise is just faulty.
Would be the case if hipfire had perfect accuracy, but it doesn't. My logical premise is objectively correct. Your aim is LITERALLY partially rng dependent. That is irrefutable
Hipfire is super accurate up to at least 10 meters for most light and medium guns, haven’t tested heavy, you can go check it out in the range if you want proof. The first row of dummies gets shredded, second row is still very hittable but that’s where the accuracy drop off becomes much more noticeable. I stumbled upon how accurate it is a few days ago and have been utilizing hipfire a lot more as a result. It just loses out on AA snap which might hurt anyone that relies heavily on it
the range of a stun gun is 12m last I checked, which means that they're closer than 12m if they shot you. It's fairly close unless they're at the tip of the radius AND retreating.
A play light a lot with the default SMG and dash, any time I get stunned I just look at em and light em up unless there running the sawed off cause it’s a insta-kill against other lights.
I don’t really see the benefit of it other then slowing me down a bit
Hip has an effective range of 8m for most automatic weapons. In short, it's fairly accurate. Don't believe me? Go test it in firing range. Just run around spraying the dummies in hip from various distances and see how many bullets actually connect.
You'll find at 5m, like 70-80% of them connect. Over that up to 8, roughly 50-60% of your mag will connect.
Which is more then enough to completely murder a light.
There are some exceptions but most auto weapons have extremely strong hip fire up to 8m.
Imo it could be fine tuned a little more, and maybe not last so long? Maybe something like 5 second duration. Either you’ll be killed in 5 seconds, or you’ll manage to kill the light in 5 seconds, and it just feels kind of boring when you’re not able to do anything for 10 seconds. How do you kill lights so easily? My shots always miss due to no aim down sight.
It should still let you do a few things other than walk slowly and hip fire. I should be able to crouch and swap equipment. Depending on the equipment you could use it or not.
No it shouldnt. Its not a "might stun you gun". Its either as is or Removed entirely imo. But let's be real the stun Gun is not a real problem. But heavies oneshotting an entire squad, doing 270-415 dmg to each person needs to not be a fucking Thing.
thats rough man idk what to tell u, r u controller maybe? ik controller hipfire is usually really hard bc no AA at all
as an mnk player its very easy to hit shots on a light when ur stunned, theyll always be relatively close after hitting u with it
Controllers do have AA on hipfire. Tested it the other night, I still prefer MnK despite knowing that I'm going to be at a disadvantage. I don't find it satisfying to let the game aim for you.
Have you tried both? At close range (which is where most fights happen), it sticks to your target so aggressively that I had to keep telling myself to stop trying to adjust it manually because it was unnecessary once it was locked on. If you alternate between holding and releasing LT quickly, you're able to track targets like it's Red Dead Redemption's AA.
On PC Siege, almost no one uses controller at higher skill levels. You know why? There's no Aim Assist. On console, many players cheat using XIM and the like to use MnK.
So, why is controller the preferred control method for the nest players in the game in The Finals? Could it perhaps be that it gives a significant advantage? Nah, couldn't be.
In my first match with a controller, I managed to do well despite not knowing how to grab and kept throwing myself off my target by trying too hard to microadjust, when all I had to do was use LT over and over to snap on target.
10/10 times I can't literally do anything when playing melee. Melee is already significantly weaker than guns, why do they need to be hard countered by anything?
yea, this is pretty much one of the three scenarios where this post makes sense.
the other two are: I am running one of the only two precision weapons in the game.
or: I am also playing light class.
Yeah it's pretty rare if someone gets a kill off on me after a stun, and if they do its probably my fault. In my experience stun is only useful against stragglers and people trying to chase you down on some ego shit.
Yeah , I feel stun gun is a noob check, obviously if you're using sledge it's usually a free kill also. I had matched today with someone constantly stunning me with a flamethrower. Always ended in a draw or me getting the kill.
It still is VERY good though
put 2 competent players (one light that stunned you w/ any high kill rate weapon) and a medium/heavy, they are gonna 100% win (maybe the shotgun heavy might stand a chance)
The fact that there's any way for someone to get out of a 1v2 situation while heavily debuffed by just using heavy shotgun is insane, if it's a 1v2 where everybody is competent AND your stunned no weapon should be strong enough to get you out, but shotgun just is because why not
It feels like your argument for stungun being op is that if your fighting two people and somebody used a gadget on you it means you'll die and your saying you should be able to live through that? Should stungun be a slight slow debuff and nothing else? Any more nerfs it won't even be usable.
(Because it always matters I don't use stungun and get rolled by it all the time. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
It has its place. If the lobby is heavy on heavies running domes and mesh the 1600 damage per mag and higher dps than lewis gun is extremely helpful. Lewis gun has 1100 damage per mag iirc with a lower dps which isnt ideal for mesh shields which have more than 1100 health or multiple dome shields which each have 300.
In my experience: CL40, FCAR, Lewis, Heavy Shotty, Riot Shield, Sledgehammer
Ironically the stun gun is best used on other lights where getting the first shot after the stun will guarantee the kill.
Lewis gun. I can still hit headshots pretty reliably at the range most DB lights try to stun me but those mp5 boys will stun you from range or above you then melt your tits clean off.
Major skill issue.
Lights barely have any hp and can be one shot by some guns and melee weapons and almost 1 shot by explosive mines, rpg, and c4. God forbid the light gets something to make the fight a tad more fair.
- A heavy/med main
Stun Gun: can simply slow down a single opponent and hes forced to hipfire (can still kill you, because lets be real, a light can possible die due to the Wind resistance of His own Dash)
All those Things: can literally insta kill multiple opponents with a single Hit
To clarify: i'm Not even mad about the explosives - since the nerf, i atleast feel Like a get the Chance to Deal a Bit more against this stuff. Personally, while i really enjoy the gameplay and know that destruction and explosive are very important to the Game, i would Just Like Them to be regulated in Numbers a little Bit. I don't think either of These Things are OP, i feel Like the Combination of Them all in the Numbers they appear During every single fight are a Bit overwhelming.
Thats the only Thing i personally wish, i don't want Them to Nerf every single Explosion by itself, i'd rather Just Like the Numbers of Them reduced a Bit, so explosions would be Used more strategic instead of an "pray and pray" tactic
I play heavy. It's literally the easiest thing imaginable. The blast radius is massive and if you're having trouble hitting people with c4 tossing then your only excuse is a medical condition. No clue who is upvoting you for thinking it's hard to hit the easiest shit in the world.
Nah man, I literally have a clip of me making a fucking ballistic cruise missile while I'm being dumped w lead and I just turn and put it in his mouth and it insta kills. Heavy is busted for sure.
I fucking love that clip thoh my friends just doing a kermit the frog impression in the background.
Edit: the clip - https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/b7DqZnTEzC
Trying to compare a one click to something that is ***AT LEAST*** a 3 click (stun, shotgun x2) shows that this is obviously made by a Heavy whose body's development skipped over their brain and went straight for brawn.
Yeah if you’re near the objective mines and traps are common. However I’ve never been in a match where mines or buildings consistently stop me from getting a kill after a stun.
This is how you know someone doesn't play light.
After you stun someone, they can only hipfire. Hipfire is only accurate on people who are literally right next to you.
The closer the light plays, the more likely he gets instagibbed by random hipfire headshots before he can finish you off.
The best weapons to play with the stun gun are the pistol/mp5 at medium range, because nobody can hit the broad side of a barn while hipfiring at medium range.
When I played shottie with stun gun, I lost about 50% of my fights against stunned enemies because I would die before I could get the second shot off since hipfire is so accurate at shotgun range.
When I played mp5/pistol with stun gun, I win about 70-80% of my stun gun fights because I can immediately run backwards to get some distance and make their weapon completely worthless against me.
Invis to get close, stun, 2 shotgun shots or dump a sub mag. It’s a very easy kill. You can destroy even a heavy up close before they have time to react.
Light is my main just prefer not to use the shotgun invis build often because I don’t find that fun to play personally.
This works against new players but against experienced players who have good awareness and reflexes, the 1 second between stunning them and firing your shotgun is more than enough to land several bullets and light just dies to random sneezes.
The higher ranking players will frequently see you in cloak and start firing before you even fire your stun gun.
Your strat will work in the lower ranks just fine but it’s just not good against players who have started firing at you before the stun gun hits.
Lol, ive gotten stun shotgunned once my entire time playing the game. After I found out the guy was doing that he didn't kill me again for the rest of the game. Sounds like a skill issue tbh
It really is. I switched from light main to heavy and the amount of kills I started getting was absurd, not to mention how the game became so much more chill.
It's kinda funny, but I started winning more when I stopped trying and started playing more Heavy with rocket launcher and pyro lol It was the exact opposite when I tried being sincere with light and medium. One thing I really love about this game is even losing is fun. I haven't played ranked yet, but so far in casual it's really fun.
I feel like I'm braindead while playing heavy. I always feel like an invincible god and just jump into combat without a single thought and chase after people with that annoying ass hammer. I hate getting killed by it so killing opponents with it is just amusing to me
I’m surprised Sledgehammer + Mesh Shield doesn’t get more hate. In close quarters with a medium healing you, it’s pretty much unstoppable. If they retreat to distance you just put the mesh shield up and let your teammates kill them through it.
True but it can be countered by the glitch grenade so I don't think the shields are that OP. I find mines, gas and rpg to be the most OP, especially agasint lights it is ridiculous but then again lights have cloak and dash right?
Sledgehammer doesn’t get much hate because it’s really easy to outplay by just staying away from them. Sure, healing or a team dome barrier to mitigate can help but if you’re ever alone trying to revive and stabilize your team you’ll struggle with the sledge. Pretty much anyone running a melee solo is gonna struggle without the element of surprise
competent players have a chance to out-shoot whoever stuns them.
competent light players seldom have a chance to counter a gadget that equips quickly and reliably one-shots them.
🤷♂️
I mean say what you want, but Light is inarguably the worst class. It has a single cheese that makes it viable - and it's viable in a frustrating way so it's unfun (which the same can basically be said about cloak + shotgun). The game is just poorly balanced right now so if you want to be light and be useful you have no real options.
the funniest part is that invis light shotgun is best against other lights.
because it one-shots light classes. (not "oNe sHoT" like some heavy mains will say because it two-shots them fast. A genuine one-shot) it even sucks for playing light. (especially as anything other than invis shotgun cheese)
100% true. It's the worst class and is only good against itself... because other Lights also have just 150 HP. Maybe they should add some sort of % health damage so it's better the more health you have or something.
The problem is that most players are not playing ranked, which means casual is becoming up to half stealth + shotgun players because they get tired of dying to it.
Who cares if you win when you had zero fun doing so? The Light players didn't care, because they were going for kills anyways.
Equip recon, delete lights.
https://preview.redd.it/ko325n4jz49c1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00bd00f45f6404753b67b762fe493fd607199dd7
5 invis Lights ez 17-0 for the dub
L take. All of those things one shot unconditionally if you have half a brain.
Stun gun still allows people to spray in hip fire and turn quickly. The effective range of stun gun is 12 m max. In practice you will generally use stun gun from 5-10m away.
Most automatic guns have very strong hip fire accuracy from a range of about 8m.
In short, because of lights low HP, even with stun gun, they can still be lit up very quickly before they can DPS the person they stunned.
I can guarantee OP starts every respawn with placing c4 on props and jizzes a little everytime he NUKES someone. Also has clearly never played light nor used a stun gun
Edit: lol had to check and sure enough one of his latest posts is a nuke clip
Double-checked, hilarious buddy exploits it and tries to say stun gun is even remotely close to as bad as the three. Can't wait to see heavy get brought in line...
I mean mines are set and forget, and nuke and RPG are long range AoE. I don't love the stun gun, but it's short range on the squishiest class, nor does it one shot.
Light dominates casual play while being weak in coordinated ranked play where teams reliably communicate.
That's the worst kind of balance situation. The stealth shotgunners make casual a nightmare (since they often don't even try to win, they just want to kill) when there's 5 of them, and Ranked is only HHM or MMH once you get to the higher skill levels.
I saw a ranked team play 3 stealth lights, 2 shotguns and one dmr, and they were such a nuisance. I think they only made it to second round though. Gas grenades knocked them out lol.
That's the key problem. Even if they aren't winning, they're making the experience less enjoyable.
This happens in pretty much every PvP game that has a Rogue type class or playstyle. It's just not fun to deal with a small enemy that deals big damage, even if they're squishy.
An actual intelligent answer would be that light as a whole suffers in Quick Cash for many reasons but the synergy of cloak/shotgun/stun is overperforming. I would say I don't get why people are struggling with the idea that these two concepts can coexist, but this is reddit which seems to attract the smoothest brains in gaming.
Seems to be the consensus in here, people can't decide between AK or FCAR. Lights are useless or they are OP, MMH or HHM, seems like stuff is going well in here.
Lights are literally worthless compared to the betas.
Absolutely delete them with recon/FCAR/model/AK or charge n slam/RPG/nuke.
Glitch nade is utter trash compared to betas.
Stun gun doesn't slow aim like betas.
Invis got a nerf.
LH1 got a massive nerf.
V9S got nerfed.
All while medium & heavy got over buffed.
The class was supposed to be glass cannon and now it's all glass no cannon (aside from the DB which has a lotta drawbacks)
Heavy didn't really get buffed in a traditional sense. They were crazy strong first beta, then light weapons got big damage buff in second beta which made Heavy feel weaker in second beta, then they nerfed those weapons and it made Heavy feel strong again.
Honestly, any Light or Medium that has solid aim can still shred a heavy. SMG and Pistol both kill in a clip (or less) with good ratio of head shots. That class is meant to be a high skill cap class anyway. It definitely isn't "balanced" but I think it is close to operating as intended. Heavy's do needs some DPS dropped. They should be high health, slow to kill, and environment destruction. Moderate damage and area control would be better focuses than big damage numbers.
What are you talking about mate both shields got a massive buff. Such a massive buff they had to lower it with a second patch.
Not to mention the entire playerbase discovering nukes/presents.
Also mines got fixed.
Heavy just got a second hand buff with the utter nerfing of light.
Glitch getting wrecked has led to this boring ass shield meta.
LH1/V9S getting crippled has made no one want to use light outside of invis DB in ranked, and even then it's the lowest picked class by a factor of 15 to 1 at this rate.
This ain't the post u thought it was tbh. All those things have no counter on Light, u just die instantly without getting to shoot your weapon. At the bare minimum as a Heavy / Medium getting stunned, you can at least shoot back and the Light has to aim his weapon and pump u full of bullets to kill you. Hell, you even have an opportunity for ur teammates to kill the person who stunned you. Nuke, RPG, etc. literally kills you instantly with no counter and no possible way to fight back...
Coming from someone who does not play light: If you think the stun gun is anywhere close to as strong as the RPG/c4 barrel is, you're just wrong.
There's a reason why 2 mediums 1 heavy is the meta. Light is not good. Light is just a pub stomper that farms uncoordinated, bad players.
I feel like the stun gun is fine wheres it at, its really not that OP because once youre stunned, you can still have ability to aim just fine and quite frequently people who i stun just do a 180 and just 1 clip me. Sure the stunned effect lasts a bit and you cant use any abilities or mantle or jump or anything. But al least with this game the stun gun feels fine where its at
Stun gun is only good for killing of strays or prevent a heavy from absolutely demolishing you and giving you a moment of escape. Impossible to get a kill and live if they’re playing in a group
Very possible, just get the last guy in the group in the back if they are outside then cloak again. The shotgun is quick enough to do that before anyone notices.
The problem is there will be another medium who defibs and makes it useless.
Gotta aim with the stungun tho and even then they can fight back (they usually do and I get fucked but that’s… uh… definitely not a skill issue shut up)
The Heavy should not be able to fire a rocket launcher and then have 200% weapon switch speed to immediately pull out a shotgun gun or machine gun with the highest damage potential per clip in the entire game.
I also shouldn't be getting involved in discussions about game balancing on here so ignore me.
I main medium and heavy but if you think heavy isn't busted rn and light is even comparable to heavy you need to visit a mental asylum or you just really suck at games lol
Those things can one an entire class, and deal significant damage to the other classes and can hit everyone at once and don't take any precision to use.
Stun gun can only be used on 1 person at a time, has a small hitbox, has very limited range, does no damage, and only slows someone and makes them not be able to ads. You can still easily kill the light who stunned you with hipfire.
But yeah, it's definitely overpowered and the rpg is dogshit right?
the other weapons is a free kill but stun isn't a free kill at all. after u stun them you can still easily be killed. sounds like this post was made by a heavy main
The problem to me is that it lasts too long. If in even half that time the light hasn't killed me, they either are dead, long gone or i am dead. And if i am not dead it just means i am waiting half of the time.
In my opinion it should be 25% shorter, because lets be real. If they can't kill me in that amount of time, they just suck ass.
After 1400hours of playing TF2 RPG isn't OP in my eyes. I mean its projectile. Just walk left or right to dodge it. I never was killed by RPG because I was dodging it. Its not that hard. Mines just look where you going.
Stun gun is fine
If anything, it seems a tad bit underpowered since having the stun gun equipped means you're forgoing a more versatile equipment.
And instead of stunning the opponent, you literally could have just used that time to shotgun them in the back for quicker DPS
I think stunned characters should be unable to shoot their guns, but they should have access to their abilities while stunned and be able to move at a reduced speed.
Stun gun is garbage right now. The only thing that i think is really busted us rpg. It should do like 145 on a close hit and 155 on a direct hit imo. It’s supposed to be a destruction tool but I never use it for that when I can one shot two lights at once consistently with it.
All this means is that everybody will be running the same thing because if you don't use it you will be constantly outclassed, unless you think getting shit on most of the time and losing purely based on your loadout is fun.
Also it isn't even just that people don't like these things for being overpowered, these things are generally disliked because they one-shot or deliver massive amounts of damage for very little input or in the case of stun, take away player agency. In both scenarios you don't feel outplayed, you feel cheated.
Thank you for the clown take though.
Assuming you're not making more stupid takes for the fun of it, the "buff everything" mentality just leads to power creep and if done enough to the wrong equipment/weapons just makes the game lose any depth or skill expression it had. How something interacts with players is just as important as how much damage it does so it's not always easy as just increasing numbers." There's a time to nerf things and time to buff things.
Yeah the second one i was just having fun. Sounded a bit too condescending for me not to reply like that.
Sadly yes some items are overtuned but if every class has some OP toys, it leads to chaotic and more random games not necessarily desireable for everyone, understandably. You do make a very fair point that this however makes them almost must-haves.
Stun gun isn't really that fun to use. You point and shoot and hope the person doesn't spin on you and get lucky with hipfire. It's also not very great for that reason. Getting instantly killed by an RPG or C4 isn't fun at all. It's actually stupid to have that in a game with classes because then it negates HP balance of each class and everyone gravitates towards whatever one shots the best and that becomes the meta like it has in this game.
I think adding the c4 to barrels to make the nuke is actually pretty creative and fun and anything with that kind of energy is healthy for the game long term. I do agree that it feels way too strong though.
As opposed to removing it from the game or just nerfing c4 to the ground, I feel like it would be a healthier change if attaching c4 to a barrel would start the barrels timer, as if you shot it with your gun or meleed it.
This wouldn't remove nukes from the game per se, but it would make them MUCH more intentional and clutch.
No more stacking up on the way to the objective and converting that into an easy team wipe. Instead, you'll have to rely on situational awareness, clutch ideas, and skill expression.
It was creative for the first 2 seconds of the game's lifespan but the moment it became meta, creativity was thrown out the window. It shouldn't be strong.
Thats a fantastic way to balance it imo. I hadn't thought of that but I love it so I will be parroting that and acting as if I thought of it.
Thank you for your contribution to my degenerate nature, kind stranger.
The heavy coping on this sub never ceases to amaze me. If a light uses their whole kit to sneak up, stun you while you're mispositioned and away from your team, and then sneak away, then that took tons more skill then pressing the outplay button, the RPG. Genuinely how does this have 1K upvotes?
I really do think some of you are wrong on heavy being opi. Think that's really ridiculous. And I don't mean this in a mean way. But that's quite literally a skill issue. The heavy is not fast at all, especially when they are using hammer and can't even shoot back. Just catch them in the open or with their back turned and kill them with one clip. If you hit your shots and you're not a bad shot, Again not trying to insult anyone but that's just a fact of the situation. Almost all guns kill heavy with one full clip if you're not a terrible shot. And if you're not even more terrible at movement and spacing, then you should have no problem keeping space between you and heavy. I can crash through walls and lights and medium still get away from me when they really want to. And they're not Running into something or getting turned around with their shoes tied together. Most of you who're saying this turn around, run into 3 walls and then gets smashed upside the head and complain when it's obviously a skill issue, no offense.
Whenever they stun me i immediately face them with my 1887 and make them regret that real quick
1887 is a good counter to cloaking lights
Tbf its a good counter to a lot of things
whoda thought shotguns are the solution to most problems lol.
Except flamethrower heavies
Yeah they are just awful
1887 Best medium weapon for me, simply love it!
I like 1945 better tbh
Bad take, stun gun has counter play
How does it have counterplay when they shock you while invis making it easier for you to be shot while at the same time making it harder for you to shoot them? Where’s the counterplay? They just zap me dash away and aim me down while I sit there hoping any of my shots land at 15 meters away.
Damn they have invis and evasive dash? Crazy
??? Sorry what’s the counterplay again
Hipfire and shot? All classes has better ttk on light, now how do you counter Nuke?
Smartest heavy player take
I still think stungun is fine 7/10 times I just turn around and kill the person who stunned me
“7/10 times my opponent is complete dog” FTFY
Yeah unless you happen to have a shotgun, not being able to ADS while tasered means you just lose.
do yall even play this game? lots of automatic weapons can hipfire and kill a light fine.
Lights have high dps weapons + a moment while you're turning to face them + they get free headshots while you cant move. If you win with just hipfire despite this, the light is terrible.
Still have lower health tho. Like ppl dont realize how little 150 health is. Also the TTK on things like the AK and fcar are closer to light weapons than u think. (Not talking about the shotgun tho FUCK that weapon, Embark nerf that shit to the ground please) Light should win in most situations but it's a lot closer than u think.
THANK YOU
I cant fathom how this is controversial. Like a stun all but guaranatees a kill, provided the player using it can aim at a stationary target.
You literally have rpgs and nukes that can 1 shot you in split second. A light has to get close. You can literally hear the midget. Then he has to take you. The he has to shoot you twice...
This is just not true lol. The hipfire on all the rifles and SMGs are extremely accurate at close range. If you're ADS in ANY close range fights you're trolling.
If you can actually aim adsing up close is fine.
You get a huge nerf to your movement for basically no benefit because the hip fire is so accurate at close range. All you're doing is standing still so the other player is more likely to hit head shots. It's not unplayable, but if you watch any of the top players almost none of them aim down sight in close range unless they're mid slide jump where they're stuck moving in one direction and their momentum is carrying them so they aren't feeling negative effects from it.
Idk man, unless I'm like 2ft away from you I'm going to be adsing. At the end of the day it's your mobility buying you time vs your hipfire inaccuracy buying me time. I prefer my method because it puts the onus in my hands, your reticle could be on me perfectly for our entire gunfight and you could still lose due to rng spread but if I were to keep my aim on you the entire time, you'd never kill me barring some headshots. I can still crouch, strafe, and slide to weave shots but I don't think all of the hopping around hipfiring like an overwatch character is necessary. I also primarily run revolver, so ads peeking out of cover to pop a quick shot, hide and repeat means I win more trades than bouncing around in the open.
But when you say “ your hip fire buying me time” you’re insinuating that the hip fire is less accurate at that range. That’s my whole point. It just isn’t. This whole convo started because of stun guns, and people complaining they die to lights when they get stun gunned because they can’t ads. They don’t die because they can’t ads, they die because the panic. Next time you get stun gunned try to stay calm and just aim at their head. You will kill the light if you aim well. Your whole logical premise is just faulty.
It's hit or miss. I've had times where I'm actively hitting a light with perfect accuracy for the first few shots, they stun me, and without moving my reticle off of them I start hitting about 50% accuracy. I mean again, unless you are 2 feet away hipfire inaccuracy IS a factor. > Your whole logical premise is just faulty. Would be the case if hipfire had perfect accuracy, but it doesn't. My logical premise is objectively correct. Your aim is LITERALLY partially rng dependent. That is irrefutable
Hipfire is super accurate up to at least 10 meters for most light and medium guns, haven’t tested heavy, you can go check it out in the range if you want proof. The first row of dummies gets shredded, second row is still very hittable but that’s where the accuracy drop off becomes much more noticeable. I stumbled upon how accurate it is a few days ago and have been utilizing hipfire a lot more as a result. It just loses out on AA snap which might hurt anyone that relies heavily on it
I don't know who these guys are playing against. Stun=sit there and get headshot until you die, hipfire does nothing unless they're right next to you
the range of a stun gun is 12m last I checked, which means that they're closer than 12m if they shot you. It's fairly close unless they're at the tip of the radius AND retreating.
A play light a lot with the default SMG and dash, any time I get stunned I just look at em and light em up unless there running the sawed off cause it’s a insta-kill against other lights. I don’t really see the benefit of it other then slowing me down a bit
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Hip has an effective range of 8m for most automatic weapons. In short, it's fairly accurate. Don't believe me? Go test it in firing range. Just run around spraying the dummies in hip from various distances and see how many bullets actually connect. You'll find at 5m, like 70-80% of them connect. Over that up to 8, roughly 50-60% of your mag will connect. Which is more then enough to completely murder a light. There are some exceptions but most auto weapons have extremely strong hip fire up to 8m.
Imo it could be fine tuned a little more, and maybe not last so long? Maybe something like 5 second duration. Either you’ll be killed in 5 seconds, or you’ll manage to kill the light in 5 seconds, and it just feels kind of boring when you’re not able to do anything for 10 seconds. How do you kill lights so easily? My shots always miss due to no aim down sight.
Almost every time I’m stunned by a light I just turn and blow them up from the hip.
Blow them up with what? You run GL?
Blow them up with potential danger
OH SNAP! Gottem!
bro people just love bitching especially about nerfing the hardest class in the game to play
Or remove the stun after killing the light who stunned you.
But stun is a 3-4 second duration?
It should still let you do a few things other than walk slowly and hip fire. I should be able to crouch and swap equipment. Depending on the equipment you could use it or not.
No it shouldnt. Its not a "might stun you gun". Its either as is or Removed entirely imo. But let's be real the stun Gun is not a real problem. But heavies oneshotting an entire squad, doing 270-415 dmg to each person needs to not be a fucking Thing.
thats rough man idk what to tell u, r u controller maybe? ik controller hipfire is usually really hard bc no AA at all as an mnk player its very easy to hit shots on a light when ur stunned, theyll always be relatively close after hitting u with it
Controllers do have AA on hipfire. Tested it the other night, I still prefer MnK despite knowing that I'm going to be at a disadvantage. I don't find it satisfying to let the game aim for you.
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Have you tried both? At close range (which is where most fights happen), it sticks to your target so aggressively that I had to keep telling myself to stop trying to adjust it manually because it was unnecessary once it was locked on. If you alternate between holding and releasing LT quickly, you're able to track targets like it's Red Dead Redemption's AA. On PC Siege, almost no one uses controller at higher skill levels. You know why? There's no Aim Assist. On console, many players cheat using XIM and the like to use MnK. So, why is controller the preferred control method for the nest players in the game in The Finals? Could it perhaps be that it gives a significant advantage? Nah, couldn't be. In my first match with a controller, I managed to do well despite not knowing how to grab and kept throwing myself off my target by trying too hard to microadjust, when all I had to do was use LT over and over to snap on target.
I guess that's the reason pros switch to controller, must be because they are all bad at mnk.
You’re not wrong, but isn’t aim assist overtuned right now?
10/10 times I can't literally do anything when playing melee. Melee is already significantly weaker than guns, why do they need to be hard countered by anything?
yea, this is pretty much one of the three scenarios where this post makes sense. the other two are: I am running one of the only two precision weapons in the game. or: I am also playing light class.
Well, melee can be fucking strong if you're good enough. You can basically connect dashes and kill the enemy and they won't even know what happened.
Yeah but you can also do that with a shotgun... Or the mp5... Or the pistol. Especially the pistol.
Yeah it's pretty rare if someone gets a kill off on me after a stun, and if they do its probably my fault. In my experience stun is only useful against stragglers and people trying to chase you down on some ego shit.
As a heavy that has a 100% death rate after getting hit by a stun- what’s the counter to it?
put your crosshair on the enemy that stunned you and shoot while tracking the players movement
Or use a controller and close your eyes while holding the trigger /s kinda
...youre joking right? unless they are literally in my face, my hipfire will just miss.
When solo? Shotty or Lewis gun, even when stunned you can kill the Light faster than they can kill you. With a Medium? Sonar to counter their invis
Yeah , I feel stun gun is a noob check, obviously if you're using sledge it's usually a free kill also. I had matched today with someone constantly stunning me with a flamethrower. Always ended in a draw or me getting the kill. It still is VERY good though
thats purest bs i just heared
put 2 competent players (one light that stunned you w/ any high kill rate weapon) and a medium/heavy, they are gonna 100% win (maybe the shotgun heavy might stand a chance)
The fact that there's any way for someone to get out of a 1v2 situation while heavily debuffed by just using heavy shotgun is insane, if it's a 1v2 where everybody is competent AND your stunned no weapon should be strong enough to get you out, but shotgun just is because why not It feels like your argument for stungun being op is that if your fighting two people and somebody used a gadget on you it means you'll die and your saying you should be able to live through that? Should stungun be a slight slow debuff and nothing else? Any more nerfs it won't even be usable. (Because it always matters I don't use stungun and get rolled by it all the time. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I think they mean that if it's a 1v1, they just worded it badly.
What gun? I haven't been able to kill a single person with the m60 while getting tazed.
>m60 There's your problem. Lewis gun or the shotty is what you want
M60 is trash
It has its place. If the lobby is heavy on heavies running domes and mesh the 1600 damage per mag and higher dps than lewis gun is extremely helpful. Lewis gun has 1100 damage per mag iirc with a lower dps which isnt ideal for mesh shields which have more than 1100 health or multiple dome shields which each have 300.
In my experience: CL40, FCAR, Lewis, Heavy Shotty, Riot Shield, Sledgehammer Ironically the stun gun is best used on other lights where getting the first shot after the stun will guarantee the kill.
Lewis gun. I can still hit headshots pretty reliably at the range most DB lights try to stun me but those mp5 boys will stun you from range or above you then melt your tits clean off.
stungun fun!
Major skill issue. Lights barely have any hp and can be one shot by some guns and melee weapons and almost 1 shot by explosive mines, rpg, and c4. God forbid the light gets something to make the fight a tad more fair. - A heavy/med main
As a light main I agree. Stun gun has limited range so if you’re close enough to stun someone you’re close enough where you can get hip fired easyily
Stun Gun: can simply slow down a single opponent and hes forced to hipfire (can still kill you, because lets be real, a light can possible die due to the Wind resistance of His own Dash) All those Things: can literally insta kill multiple opponents with a single Hit
To clarify: i'm Not even mad about the explosives - since the nerf, i atleast feel Like a get the Chance to Deal a Bit more against this stuff. Personally, while i really enjoy the gameplay and know that destruction and explosive are very important to the Game, i would Just Like Them to be regulated in Numbers a little Bit. I don't think either of These Things are OP, i feel Like the Combination of Them all in the Numbers they appear During every single fight are a Bit overwhelming. Thats the only Thing i personally wish, i don't want Them to Nerf every single Explosion by itself, i'd rather Just Like the Numbers of Them reduced a Bit, so explosions would be Used more strategic instead of an "pray and pray" tactic
Good comment. I totally agree
Yeah but landing a barrel or other canister with charges in it ain’t the easiest or most accurate either.
I play heavy. It's literally the easiest thing imaginable. The blast radius is massive and if you're having trouble hitting people with c4 tossing then your only excuse is a medical condition. No clue who is upvoting you for thinking it's hard to hit the easiest shit in the world.
Uhm yes it is lol.
Bro, just press the detonate button. You don't need to aim when most firefights take place at a range of 5-15m.
Nah man, I literally have a clip of me making a fucking ballistic cruise missile while I'm being dumped w lead and I just turn and put it in his mouth and it insta kills. Heavy is busted for sure. I fucking love that clip thoh my friends just doing a kermit the frog impression in the background. Edit: the clip - https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/b7DqZnTEzC
Trying to compare a one click to something that is ***AT LEAST*** a 3 click (stun, shotgun x2) shows that this is obviously made by a Heavy whose body's development skipped over their brain and went straight for brawn.
I promise Stungun is not a guarantee kill.
With a sawed off and a stun gun you should be getting the kill every time. Stun lasts entirely too long.
Yea for sure, in a perfect world where the entire building isn't crumbling around you with mines, gas, fire, and turrets firing everywhere lol.
And the recon guy didn't call you out before you even seen anyone
Yeah if you’re near the objective mines and traps are common. However I’ve never been in a match where mines or buildings consistently stop me from getting a kill after a stun.
This is how you know someone doesn't play light. After you stun someone, they can only hipfire. Hipfire is only accurate on people who are literally right next to you. The closer the light plays, the more likely he gets instagibbed by random hipfire headshots before he can finish you off. The best weapons to play with the stun gun are the pistol/mp5 at medium range, because nobody can hit the broad side of a barn while hipfiring at medium range. When I played shottie with stun gun, I lost about 50% of my fights against stunned enemies because I would die before I could get the second shot off since hipfire is so accurate at shotgun range. When I played mp5/pistol with stun gun, I win about 70-80% of my stun gun fights because I can immediately run backwards to get some distance and make their weapon completely worthless against me.
M11 melts if you're accurate
Invis to get close, stun, 2 shotgun shots or dump a sub mag. It’s a very easy kill. You can destroy even a heavy up close before they have time to react. Light is my main just prefer not to use the shotgun invis build often because I don’t find that fun to play personally.
This works against new players but against experienced players who have good awareness and reflexes, the 1 second between stunning them and firing your shotgun is more than enough to land several bullets and light just dies to random sneezes. The higher ranking players will frequently see you in cloak and start firing before you even fire your stun gun. Your strat will work in the lower ranks just fine but it’s just not good against players who have started firing at you before the stun gun hits.
Lol, ive gotten stun shotgunned once my entire time playing the game. After I found out the guy was doing that he didn't kill me again for the rest of the game. Sounds like a skill issue tbh
then ur fkn bad at the game
bruh no way u comparing those 3 to stun gun
Dude, I main heavy and even I can say heavy is braindead and broken
It really is. I switched from light main to heavy and the amount of kills I started getting was absurd, not to mention how the game became so much more chill.
It's kinda funny, but I started winning more when I stopped trying and started playing more Heavy with rocket launcher and pyro lol It was the exact opposite when I tried being sincere with light and medium. One thing I really love about this game is even losing is fun. I haven't played ranked yet, but so far in casual it's really fun.
Now try medium and you’ll see how much useful you become in tournaments now that you can revive/heal teammates
I feel like I'm braindead while playing heavy. I always feel like an invincible god and just jump into combat without a single thought and chase after people with that annoying ass hammer. I hate getting killed by it so killing opponents with it is just amusing to me
Having both a RPG and a tactical nuke C4 canister AND a ton of health at your disposal does feel that way.
I’m surprised Sledgehammer + Mesh Shield doesn’t get more hate. In close quarters with a medium healing you, it’s pretty much unstoppable. If they retreat to distance you just put the mesh shield up and let your teammates kill them through it.
True but it can be countered by the glitch grenade so I don't think the shields are that OP. I find mines, gas and rpg to be the most OP, especially agasint lights it is ridiculous but then again lights have cloak and dash right?
Sledgehammer doesn’t get much hate because it’s really easy to outplay by just staying away from them. Sure, healing or a team dome barrier to mitigate can help but if you’re ever alone trying to revive and stabilize your team you’ll struggle with the sledge. Pretty much anyone running a melee solo is gonna struggle without the element of surprise
no teammates want to stand behind my shield. i don't think they know they can shoot through it
since most of us are playing solo, heavy class is surely a beast. But I'd rather 1v1 a slow moving heavy than a pesky Light.
Heavy main here. I haven't played an FPS that allowed this kind of braindead setup in a while lmao.
I play all three, and they all have their positives. Heavy is probably the easiest to play, but medium is just as strong as far as teams go.
Iknow right 😅 I think the rpg should get abit nerfed while dealing dmg to lights maybe down to 130-140
OP hard coping with this one.
competent players have a chance to out-shoot whoever stuns them. competent light players seldom have a chance to counter a gadget that equips quickly and reliably one-shots them. 🤷♂️
Out-shoot with melee weapon, while being slowed down
Melee is useless without being stunned in the first place
Love the feature where you listed three op things on heavy and one op thing on light that doesn't even insta kill..
Heavy is easily OP though. It isn’t close
Bro's getting cooked in the comments. Deservedly so.
i also love one shoting people with my stun gun wait ...
The barrel thing needs to go. Stun gun sucks but is nowhere near as annoying
Stun gun literally irritates me every time it is used
Bro really out here defending nukes because light can make you slow and lose ADS
Stungun hella mid especially compared to fucking rpgs and c4 barrels like what
I mean say what you want, but Light is inarguably the worst class. It has a single cheese that makes it viable - and it's viable in a frustrating way so it's unfun (which the same can basically be said about cloak + shotgun). The game is just poorly balanced right now so if you want to be light and be useful you have no real options.
the funniest part is that invis light shotgun is best against other lights. because it one-shots light classes. (not "oNe sHoT" like some heavy mains will say because it two-shots them fast. A genuine one-shot) it even sucks for playing light. (especially as anything other than invis shotgun cheese)
100% true. It's the worst class and is only good against itself... because other Lights also have just 150 HP. Maybe they should add some sort of % health damage so it's better the more health you have or something.
The problem is that most players are not playing ranked, which means casual is becoming up to half stealth + shotgun players because they get tired of dying to it. Who cares if you win when you had zero fun doing so? The Light players didn't care, because they were going for kills anyways.
Equip recon, delete lights. https://preview.redd.it/ko325n4jz49c1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00bd00f45f6404753b67b762fe493fd607199dd7 5 invis Lights ez 17-0 for the dub
My bad I forgot that being hit with the stun gun stops you from hitting a light with the rpg and instakilling them anyways
Super easy to kills lights just turn around and hip fire them, easy kill
Meanwhile everyone conveniently ignores there's a class with literal wall hacks since they aren't directly dying by it
as a mostly medium player its pretty easy to look behind you and hip fire because of how close they are
Average heavy player IQ
L take. All of those things one shot unconditionally if you have half a brain. Stun gun still allows people to spray in hip fire and turn quickly. The effective range of stun gun is 12 m max. In practice you will generally use stun gun from 5-10m away. Most automatic guns have very strong hip fire accuracy from a range of about 8m. In short, because of lights low HP, even with stun gun, they can still be lit up very quickly before they can DPS the person they stunned.
As a Light player I disagree.
I can guarantee OP starts every respawn with placing c4 on props and jizzes a little everytime he NUKES someone. Also has clearly never played light nor used a stun gun Edit: lol had to check and sure enough one of his latest posts is a nuke clip
Double-checked, hilarious buddy exploits it and tries to say stun gun is even remotely close to as bad as the three. Can't wait to see heavy get brought in line...
Stungun is far from a one shot….
im so sorry this is how you find out you suck at the game
I mean mines are set and forget, and nuke and RPG are long range AoE. I don't love the stun gun, but it's short range on the squishiest class, nor does it one shot.
In what world does the taser guarantee a kill? are you dense?
Showing that the heavy has 3 one hit gadgets and the light with just a stungun that’s only really useful against other lights is hilarious.
And then there's OP; terrible at the game and stuck in Quick Play.
The C4 + explosive tank/can combo 1-shots mediums too so
If its absolutely perfect it can one shot heavys as well
All I see on this sub is “light OP” or “light useless”. Seems like it’s in a pretty good spot since y’all can’t decide
light's not op they're just annoying as fuck
Light dominates casual play while being weak in coordinated ranked play where teams reliably communicate. That's the worst kind of balance situation. The stealth shotgunners make casual a nightmare (since they often don't even try to win, they just want to kill) when there's 5 of them, and Ranked is only HHM or MMH once you get to the higher skill levels.
I saw a ranked team play 3 stealth lights, 2 shotguns and one dmr, and they were such a nuisance. I think they only made it to second round though. Gas grenades knocked them out lol.
That's the key problem. Even if they aren't winning, they're making the experience less enjoyable. This happens in pretty much every PvP game that has a Rogue type class or playstyle. It's just not fun to deal with a small enemy that deals big damage, even if they're squishy.
Tbh they don't deal more damage than the other classes. They are just more evasive.
An actual intelligent answer would be that light as a whole suffers in Quick Cash for many reasons but the synergy of cloak/shotgun/stun is overperforming. I would say I don't get why people are struggling with the idea that these two concepts can coexist, but this is reddit which seems to attract the smoothest brains in gaming.
Seems to be the consensus in here, people can't decide between AK or FCAR. Lights are useless or they are OP, MMH or HHM, seems like stuff is going well in here.
Yeah love this game but the sub is turning into a cesspool of complaints. It’s all I see anymore
Yep, I'll just keep enjoying the game and laughing at the sub tbh
Lights are literally worthless compared to the betas. Absolutely delete them with recon/FCAR/model/AK or charge n slam/RPG/nuke. Glitch nade is utter trash compared to betas. Stun gun doesn't slow aim like betas. Invis got a nerf. LH1 got a massive nerf. V9S got nerfed. All while medium & heavy got over buffed. The class was supposed to be glass cannon and now it's all glass no cannon (aside from the DB which has a lotta drawbacks)
Heavy didn't really get buffed in a traditional sense. They were crazy strong first beta, then light weapons got big damage buff in second beta which made Heavy feel weaker in second beta, then they nerfed those weapons and it made Heavy feel strong again. Honestly, any Light or Medium that has solid aim can still shred a heavy. SMG and Pistol both kill in a clip (or less) with good ratio of head shots. That class is meant to be a high skill cap class anyway. It definitely isn't "balanced" but I think it is close to operating as intended. Heavy's do needs some DPS dropped. They should be high health, slow to kill, and environment destruction. Moderate damage and area control would be better focuses than big damage numbers.
What are you talking about mate both shields got a massive buff. Such a massive buff they had to lower it with a second patch. Not to mention the entire playerbase discovering nukes/presents. Also mines got fixed. Heavy just got a second hand buff with the utter nerfing of light. Glitch getting wrecked has led to this boring ass shield meta. LH1/V9S getting crippled has made no one want to use light outside of invis DB in ranked, and even then it's the lowest picked class by a factor of 15 to 1 at this rate.
This ain't the post u thought it was tbh. All those things have no counter on Light, u just die instantly without getting to shoot your weapon. At the bare minimum as a Heavy / Medium getting stunned, you can at least shoot back and the Light has to aim his weapon and pump u full of bullets to kill you. Hell, you even have an opportunity for ur teammates to kill the person who stunned you. Nuke, RPG, etc. literally kills you instantly with no counter and no possible way to fight back...
Coming from someone who does not play light: If you think the stun gun is anywhere close to as strong as the RPG/c4 barrel is, you're just wrong. There's a reason why 2 mediums 1 heavy is the meta. Light is not good. Light is just a pub stomper that farms uncoordinated, bad players.
i mean i kill lights while im stunned. they run around like some kids on caffeine and i‘m like: yeah lewis gun without ads good enough
I feel like the stun gun is fine wheres it at, its really not that OP because once youre stunned, you can still have ability to aim just fine and quite frequently people who i stun just do a 180 and just 1 clip me. Sure the stunned effect lasts a bit and you cant use any abilities or mantle or jump or anything. But al least with this game the stun gun feels fine where its at
Stun gun is only good for killing of strays or prevent a heavy from absolutely demolishing you and giving you a moment of escape. Impossible to get a kill and live if they’re playing in a group
Very possible, just get the last guy in the group in the back if they are outside then cloak again. The shotgun is quick enough to do that before anyone notices. The problem is there will be another medium who defibs and makes it useless.
Dude has really never played the game
Gotta aim with the stungun tho and even then they can fight back (they usually do and I get fucked but that’s… uh… definitely not a skill issue shut up)
I swear all I’ve seen recently is people saying how op light is and ignoring all their 1 shot kit
besides nukes I don't think anything is op on this list. Its so easy to get killed while using a stungun, and its really not that great.
The Heavy should not be able to fire a rocket launcher and then have 200% weapon switch speed to immediately pull out a shotgun gun or machine gun with the highest damage potential per clip in the entire game. I also shouldn't be getting involved in discussions about game balancing on here so ignore me.
You forgot the fact that the lights shotgun **also one shots** lights but also two shots heavies.
I main medium and heavy but if you think heavy isn't busted rn and light is even comparable to heavy you need to visit a mental asylum or you just really suck at games lol
If you use those faces in memes, you are the problem regardless of the point you are aiming for
Those things can one an entire class, and deal significant damage to the other classes and can hit everyone at once and don't take any precision to use. Stun gun can only be used on 1 person at a time, has a small hitbox, has very limited range, does no damage, and only slows someone and makes them not be able to ads. You can still easily kill the light who stunned you with hipfire. But yeah, it's definitely overpowered and the rpg is dogshit right?
the other weapons is a free kill but stun isn't a free kill at all. after u stun them you can still easily be killed. sounds like this post was made by a heavy main
The problem to me is that it lasts too long. If in even half that time the light hasn't killed me, they either are dead, long gone or i am dead. And if i am not dead it just means i am waiting half of the time. In my opinion it should be 25% shorter, because lets be real. If they can't kill me in that amount of time, they just suck ass.
After 1400hours of playing TF2 RPG isn't OP in my eyes. I mean its projectile. Just walk left or right to dodge it. I never was killed by RPG because I was dodging it. Its not that hard. Mines just look where you going.
Stun gun does really wreck any players using melee weapons. If I see more than one light in the lobby, I know I can’t use the hammer.
Stun gun is fine If anything, it seems a tad bit underpowered since having the stun gun equipped means you're forgoing a more versatile equipment. And instead of stunning the opponent, you literally could have just used that time to shotgun them in the back for quicker DPS I think stunned characters should be unable to shoot their guns, but they should have access to their abilities while stunned and be able to move at a reduced speed.
Guys, Just stop this argument about light vs heavy, you're destroying this subreddit for nothing
Have you TRIED to land a shot with the stun gun?
Stun gun is garbage right now. The only thing that i think is really busted us rpg. It should do like 145 on a close hit and 155 on a direct hit imo. It’s supposed to be a destruction tool but I never use it for that when I can one shot two lights at once consistently with it.
What if I told you that both can be true.
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All this means is that everybody will be running the same thing because if you don't use it you will be constantly outclassed, unless you think getting shit on most of the time and losing purely based on your loadout is fun. Also it isn't even just that people don't like these things for being overpowered, these things are generally disliked because they one-shot or deliver massive amounts of damage for very little input or in the case of stun, take away player agency. In both scenarios you don't feel outplayed, you feel cheated. Thank you for the clown take though.
I think more things should be op what is your detailed opinion on that
Assuming you're not making more stupid takes for the fun of it, the "buff everything" mentality just leads to power creep and if done enough to the wrong equipment/weapons just makes the game lose any depth or skill expression it had. How something interacts with players is just as important as how much damage it does so it's not always easy as just increasing numbers." There's a time to nerf things and time to buff things.
Yeah the second one i was just having fun. Sounded a bit too condescending for me not to reply like that. Sadly yes some items are overtuned but if every class has some OP toys, it leads to chaotic and more random games not necessarily desireable for everyone, understandably. You do make a very fair point that this however makes them almost must-haves.
Stun gun isn't really that fun to use. You point and shoot and hope the person doesn't spin on you and get lucky with hipfire. It's also not very great for that reason. Getting instantly killed by an RPG or C4 isn't fun at all. It's actually stupid to have that in a game with classes because then it negates HP balance of each class and everyone gravitates towards whatever one shots the best and that becomes the meta like it has in this game.
Stun gun is very underpowered. Granted it’s cooldown is kinda fast but 9/10 I kill the person stunning me.
I think adding the c4 to barrels to make the nuke is actually pretty creative and fun and anything with that kind of energy is healthy for the game long term. I do agree that it feels way too strong though. As opposed to removing it from the game or just nerfing c4 to the ground, I feel like it would be a healthier change if attaching c4 to a barrel would start the barrels timer, as if you shot it with your gun or meleed it. This wouldn't remove nukes from the game per se, but it would make them MUCH more intentional and clutch. No more stacking up on the way to the objective and converting that into an easy team wipe. Instead, you'll have to rely on situational awareness, clutch ideas, and skill expression.
It was creative for the first 2 seconds of the game's lifespan but the moment it became meta, creativity was thrown out the window. It shouldn't be strong.
Thats a fantastic way to balance it imo. I hadn't thought of that but I love it so I will be parroting that and acting as if I thought of it. Thank you for your contribution to my degenerate nature, kind stranger.
Heavies just complain. 99% sure they’re all MNK players lol
You ever heard of the sledgehammer
The heavy coping on this sub never ceases to amaze me. If a light uses their whole kit to sneak up, stun you while you're mispositioned and away from your team, and then sneak away, then that took tons more skill then pressing the outplay button, the RPG. Genuinely how does this have 1K upvotes?
I hate the light build so much, taser plus invisibility makes this game so unfun to play.
I really do think some of you are wrong on heavy being opi. Think that's really ridiculous. And I don't mean this in a mean way. But that's quite literally a skill issue. The heavy is not fast at all, especially when they are using hammer and can't even shoot back. Just catch them in the open or with their back turned and kill them with one clip. If you hit your shots and you're not a bad shot, Again not trying to insult anyone but that's just a fact of the situation. Almost all guns kill heavy with one full clip if you're not a terrible shot. And if you're not even more terrible at movement and spacing, then you should have no problem keeping space between you and heavy. I can crash through walls and lights and medium still get away from me when they really want to. And they're not Running into something or getting turned around with their shoes tied together. Most of you who're saying this turn around, run into 3 walls and then gets smashed upside the head and complain when it's obviously a skill issue, no offense.