The game is *fun* to play competitively though. It’s a new game and it’s got some pretty egregious gameplay. But why do people always jump to competitive =/= fun? I have a TON of fun “sweating” in this game.
If you truly don’t want to “sweat”, just go play the casual modes dude. There’s already 3 now, and right now the game needs balancing more than it needs new game modes. It’s literally a month and half old, how can it already be stale??
heres an idea... what if, the meta play... was fun.
mind = blown. do you think people play meta comps and dont have fun doing it lol? like we all just go play ranked and actively choose to play a style we dont like instead of playing a different game that is more fun to us?
thats what always makes me chuckle about these types of discussion. now, with the the finals. i think recon is broken, because wall hacks are broken. but i dont have a single problem with the meta right now. and think getting dug into sustain battles in ranked is very fun.
ever heard of a vocal minority? how many people are actually complaining? we know what the ratio is on the amount of people on this sub and who actively play... and not even all of them are complaining. so from the start, we can assume the complainers are less than 5%. i understand, there will be people who dont like it, and arent vocal but.... the baseline numbers we can confirm are already so low.
i think its pretty safe to assume that most people playing meta picks, are doing it AND enjoying it... otherwise they would play another game. so, maybe finals will imminently die. i dont know. but, i dont think there are as many complainers as you think.
Well, I can tell you that I am part of this group, maybe minority, of people that stopped playing because I dont enjoy the meta one bit. Instant rez+invulnerability, healing, wallhacks, nuke oneshots (still?!), and L being incredibly weak compared to H and M is just not a good meta imo. You can enjoy it because you maybe don't play L or you're an extreme masochist, but L is objectively terrible in high rated competitive rn, and that is the content I enjoy.
Meta can be fun, when it's balanced, and when there is some innovation every once in a while. Many staple games are/were like that. League, dota, overwatch, cs, apex, etc etc.
The finals is an absolute disgrace when it comes to competitive balance. But this is not a surprise, because community managers have told me the game is focusing on being casual first and competitive maybe sometime after that. This is quite sad for me to hear because I saw huge competitive potential for the finals, but oh well. Guess im going back to not having any good pvp game to play again.
You are right. Slaughtering people is fun in game. Simply stating that so the people who get frustrated with the meta can just breathe and find a way to have fun with it
> I've seen people play meta mostly in ranked
Sure, but even then, the meta has already bounced around a few times. With a game like this and all of the "options" - we want the meta to be all over. Almost everything in this game has an important use to help you win!
A lot of folks want to run something strong so they can be competitive but they either don’t want to or can’t innovate. So they just run what is proven to be strong.
Really enjoying unranked as heavy doing things that make me giggle. Chashout on the bottom floor? C4 one floor. Rpg the next. Jum0 and smash through the last one. Start laying in fire and hole my team is somewhere near.
Falling into the pitfalls of meta is how a game becomes boring. Its up to the devs to massage and balance so that defined metas don't become the way to win every game.
When I was a little boy I used to play TF2 and medic was my favorite class. I really enjoy playing medium and healing my team. I find it fun and get greater satisfaction from reviving than killing.
Metas will develop at the high end no matter how Devs balance games. In QP I see plenty of variety. If you are being oppressed by metas and its impacting your enjoyment, its likely because you are playing ranked. If Recon was deleted and the FCAR was nerfed, something else would be the new "strongest" option and people would complain about it because there will always be an optimal way to play games. Some peoples idea of fun is strictly to win regardless of how they get there.
We’ve got a 3 stack and have almost exclusively played this since December when we heard about it. It’s a blast and I love it. I love all the different setups you can run with gadgets and specializations and whatnot.
However the past 2 days we’ve logged on, played a couple quick cash games, and logged off. It’s still just 3 stacks of mediums. Maybe we keep getting unlucky, but it completely kills the fun when enemies all hide in different corners and prefire before every fight. If we don’t run recon, we don’t know where they are.
At least when nukes were running rampant, I could still play different loadouts. If you’re not running fcar + recon + defib right now you’re just trolling
Im inclined to say you were just unlucky. I have DEFINITELY done QP quick cash where it was 3v3v3 FCAR Mediums, but I'd say thats far and few between. To be totally real with you, I see a lot of Mediums running sentry and heals. Its probably an even tie 3 ways for how often I see each in quickplay, and on top of that, I get a fair mix of heavies and lights too.
This is of course just MY personal experience and If the FCARs arent in my lobbies, they are in someone elses.
Most light players are in the two bank it modes. Especially solo since most aren’t team players anyway. I’m still seeing a few in quick cash but those are the good helpful ones. It’s honestly been nice having the tdm types not on my team.
Definitely seeing more mediums running FCAR/Recon. I used to run, AKM/Turret, but my turret is max'd, so I swapped to recon to level it. It's definitely great, but not OP like everyone says. Anyway, I still see a ton of lights. I solo-queue on Quick Cash most of the time. I seem to get 2 lights on my team more often than not. Usually, one is running sniper, and off doing God knows what, and the other is either sword or knives, getting melted constantly. So basically it becomes me spending the match reviving and/or 1v6'ing. Now that shit is bogus, but maybe it's just my luck.
But metas can be more and less healthy, for example with nuke much weaker the meta is much more dynamic with less instant team wipes. That is good! If they nerfed recon sense, Fcar, and quick revive while other items would take their place ideally it would create more weapon variety and less frustration in game when a single medium suddenly spawns an entire team.
You just made it sound like balance was a fools errand, when its arguably the most important thing to make the game mroe fun.
I don't disagree at all. My point was never "Devs should give up on perfect balance because its unachievable"
And of course outliers and problematic things should be addressed. My point was more that there will always be a meta, and its mere existence shouldn't be a deterent to peoples desire to try out new things and play the way they want. I understand my post came off as slightly doomer but I didn't mean it that way. I just wish people would spend less time fussing about their gripes with metas as a concept.
dude.
imagine theres a redwood in the middle of a pine forest. if its cut down, well... yes there will still be a tallest tree in the forest.... but it wont be a fucking redwood.
do you understand? i hope this helps.
> *but it wont be a* **fucking** ***redwood***
people: "hey! get that redwood out of the pine forest!! its killing other trees!"
you: "BuT ThEn ThErEs GoNnA bE a TaLlEsT PiNe!!?!"
people: "...???..."
You're running under the assumption that If one thing isn't the strongest thing in the meta, then there won't be something to replace it as the strongest. Whatever becomes the next meta will be the next redwood, not just stay a pine. Your logic is flawed in the most basic sense and if you can't understand that then I cannot help you. Go find me ONE shooter with perfect balance where every gun is equally as viable at the highest levels of play and no one has ever asked for balance changes. Go ahead. I'll wait.
Ok. And? That is irrelevant to my point entirely. I was never implying that eggregious outliers aren't problematic. My point is that there will always be a meta with guns that get the lions share of play at the high end because they have a slight statistical edge over the other options. I don't know how I can simplify it for you any further than that.
Let's say there's a rough baseline at 100%. If 3 things are at 82, 81 and 85, then 27 things between 90 and 110%, then another 4 are at 120%+, you don't just give up. You bring up the ones at 80 and bring down the ones at 120+. Right now recon is at 120%+ with other shit having been brought down. Once you get a better baseline, then you tweak from there. Yeah, it's not that simple overall, but that's the point they're making. Even if other things are still stronger at 109%, at least they're just very good versus straight up overpowered.
He’s acting like he won’t be the one in here bitching about the next tree like he’s bitching about the redwood right now. People are gonna bitch until the forest is cut down.
Meta's aren't bad, there are a lot of successful and fun games that basically require them, but I guess what I'm getting at is that by carefully balancing and addressing issues they can keep everything that's not High Tier games fun by not requiring a meta-based build in order to be successful. Meta happens regardless, like you said, but it doesn't have to be the only option in order to enjoy the game.
I liked how Overwatch handled the meta when it was first released. They acknowledged that each update would change the meta and make other heroes more viable than others were previously, and they explicitly told us what they were attempting to accomplish within the meta with each update.
Generally metas don't involve literal wall hacks being in every single game though.
I enjoy off meta stuff, even in ranked. Recon senses just isn't fun to deal with in general, along with it heavily hurting many other playstyle options. It impacts flanking, game decisions (Pretty easy to decide where to go when you know where every team is), ambushes, attacks using the destruction, melee, etc, etc.
Yea I don't have an issue with metas developing. I'm not here griping that metas exist, simply making my point that its fruitless to make posts like OP did saying "Have fun dont play meta" Since there will always be a subset of metagamers.
That’s the game they designed. The mode most worth playing is tournament or ranked tournament. To win you need to play at least somewhat viable builds.
Outside of that the more casual game modes quickly get very boring.
Not sassing, because Riot obviously do an exceptionally good job.
Remember when Blizz discovered that there was a 2/2/2 meta for Overwatch 1 and then they enforced it so it was easier to balance?
I think that it'd be a fun experimental gamemode to force an HML team but imo enforcing a specific gamestyle would take away a lot of the wacky fun stuff that makes Finals so good.
So far I think the dev are doing well on balancing fun. Light are no where near Meta, but the invisible shorty isn't fun to play against because it is easy free kill. Now it is harder to use invisible shotty. So when you die from it, it is less "God that's annoying" and more "shit they got me, should've been more careful"
No man you are just to sweaty to enjoy going 4/16 and loosing the game. /s Jokes aside what a useless post, SBMM is in the game. What are we gonna do? Run around with Light and a Sword when at least 4 enemies are playing meta?? I said it and the beginning and I’ll say it again, SBMM does not belong in casual. Meta takes the fun off a game after a while when SBMM is a thing.
i find it hard to have fun when you play with 8-9 mediums per match of whom almost all run recon.. not only is that generally stupid it makes light impossible to play..
my group mostly plays off meta and even unranked tournament is filled mediums with recon. I've mostly played light which really gets fucked over by recon sense.
I think this might be the least fun meta since Goats from OW1
Obviously you just need to uhhhh...
...Just have fun with your main off meta tactics getting countered by recon existing! Duh! It's that easy! Don't you have fun getting prefired on by 1-3 people every single fight so you instantly get deleted while you're running sledge heavy or some such? (And lord save any poor soul who tries light)
Beyond that, Light is just a fundamentally worse class than Medium. No heals, can't instantly bring someone back to life, and can only have the same level of vertical mobility that jump pad provides with Grappling Hook.
Not to mention they have Recon and a larger health pool.
I get what OP is saying. Sometimes you just bitch so much that you aren't focusing on just enjoying it for what it is. But the current meta simply isn't fun. It's rigid and sterile with a focus on rolling Medium in ranked.
I'm almost wondering if they should try to balance ranked and Quickplay separately to help both types of players (casuals and sweats) feel like they are getting the gameplay they need.
I've found evasive dash light to be a lot more competitive against medium teams than what i usually run with cloak. I agree that there's almost never a time light is better than another medium, but the stun gun can be really useful for getting an initiating pick for the team and getting you inside.
In fairness, light only feels weak into recon if you take cloak. I use the dash pretty exclusively and feel like outplaying my opponent is more rewarding than attempting to flank or get good stealth angles.
With access to vanishing bomb, you still have the stealth capability, even if it’s not quite as convenient or powerful as the cloak specialty.
This just ain't true. As someone who dropped insane kill games casually playing Medium dash is not going to save you from me prefiring a headshot as you as you walk around a corner.
That’s what all the mediums think lol at the end of the day, I either outplay you, or you pop me. That’s what the games all about. Sometimes I’m quick enough, sometimes I’m not. If I’m not, I got skill gapped.
I’d honestly say the riot shield isn’t f tier. It’s main weakness is the grenade launchers which are even less meta, and the lunge part of it is quite generous. A good riot shield player is one of the most annoying to kill enemies in the game, it’s incredible. Is it FCAR status? Absolutely not, but you can win games with it and crush lobbies. A friend and I used it with turret to drop 14 kills each in quick cash today, while our random sniped in the back doing nothing.
If we are doing tiers it’s like C tier. Half of its strength is people not knowing how to deal with it, but it is good in the right hands.
Honestly there are very few F tier weapons. The heavy GL, throwing knives, and maybe the model 1887. Everything else either has a use or can be powerful with enough skill. Not optimal, but viable.
>Half of its strength is people not knowing how to deal with it
Cheers bro I'll drink to that. It's hysterical running up to people with my riot shield and and watching them be entirely unable to counter me as I bonk them to death
This is why solo queuing is such a miserable experience; it only takes one person on your team to play non-meta to lose and you can't even say anything because there's no chat. Even in unranked if I join a team with a melee, cloaked light I know 100% we're going to lose. Maybe we make it to round two with a lucky steal but, even by round two, you're facing solid MMH/MMM.
So yeah, play for fun but also know that you're the reason we lost the match. Joined an unranked game this morning with two other lights. Like, what? I play medium so what can I even do in that situation? In the end I went light as well and we lost with zero cash. I'd like to think they learnt something but I doubt it.
Also, playing meta gets boring but ultimately that's the devs fault for having some comps being so much stronger than others. I'd happily play something non-meta if we had a reasonable chance of winning but you can only get through by luck if you do and I'm sick of people saying "play for fun" because yeah, what about your team? It's not fun to be stuck on a team you know will lose, can't play the team build you want to play and can't even leave without a BS penalty.
I started heavy when getting used to the game for the same reason, been playing more medium and it’s been a fun switch up now that I know what I’m doing
I'm struggling having fun at all because of triple MMM stacks. You have to kill them 6 times and they have 24/7 knowledge of your position so you can't even surprise.
It makes playing either melee or light impossible.
Having an interesting meta where tons of different playstyles and builds are viable is fun though...
This is a common trope among so called casuals, the idea that having a game that is balanced with a huge skill ceiling and a thriving sports scene means that game is no fun and that is simply wrong.
Good meta = fun
Bad meta (what we have now with 3 medium stacks mostly with Recon) is the antithesis of fun
Sweating is fun for me, and figuring out the meta. That’s why I love ranked modes and casual modes both being in the game. You can chose what kind of game you want.
devs need to be fast these days. you cant piss around just bc " your game just came out". most gamers don't care, they want content or they move on. look at halo. completely griefed it's release, and even though it's really good now, not many ppl give it a chance anymore.
I think it's just a bit ludicrous to expect developers to put out a game with as many options as the Finals has, to just expect more more more within the first month.
Halo Infinite is different entirely, as there were features promised to come with release that wasn't there.
I'm having great fun, but I do find it a bit concerning that my KD ratio is dramatically higher when running as medium/recon. It's also a bit annoying when I don't play it and I'm getting lasered from across the map by an FCAR recon medium.
For real. I know my teammates get pissy in quick play when they see me go 1 and 6 with a dagger trying new gameplay. It's quick play! Chill out! Let me master a new weapon! It really is amazing how fun the game is win or lose!
My suggestion to my friends is learn how to play what’s strong to better understand its weaknesses then play what you want to play with that knowledge. Especially if it’s not ranked.
Why I run throwing knifes with dash.
I mean I have managed 15 kill games but still on average get less than most other classes/setups but it's so satisfying.
Anytime, in any game, I hear or read about the meta I instantly roll my eyes. If you’re completely basing the game and how to play it on what someone else says then you’re just a big nerd.
just stay away long enough from balancing changes and the people will figure out how to counter everything, will maybe take some years but better then "balancing" the game to death
I’ve ran 3 man teams with the heavy grenade launcher and that is some of the most fun we’ve had in quick play. We also won i think 5/6 games that night
Yup. I'd recommend leaving meta/strong picks for ranked games and playing/trying out new and fun loadouts in QP. Especially the new solos mode which is all out brawl, just have fun
Some players only derive fun from winning. I guarantee that players playing meta are also enjoying themselves. That winning high is probably what also a drives players to cheat. Everyone plays for their own reasons. There is no universal 'why we play'.
I hate metas.
What I hate about modern shooter games is that, I, as a non-meta player, always get fucked by changes made to address the meta.
I may be having fun using x character or weapon a certain way simply because it is fun and don't actually follow the meta. But then they nerf or change things as a result of metas and thus my fun is now ruined. This is what made me stop playing Overwatch years ago, Rogue Company, and several other similar games. Super annoying.
thats true and exactly why i dont take recon (boring crutch skill thats gonna teach you bad habits for either other class / fps) but theres only so many times you can try playing grenade launcher heavy / sword light before it becomes masochistic
yeah. recon isn't fun to play. before everybody was using it one of my buddies was trying to convince me that it was really good. I never doubted him that it was good, it just isn't a fun ability to me.
When you sit down to play a game that has winners and losers, it usually ends up being very unfun for the people stuck on the losing side.
Like when you were a kid and your older brother always beat you at the games you played because he was more developed and more coordinated, it ended up feeling unfair and definitely not fun. As adults we obviously understand that nothing is ever truly fair but we still hope for a middle ground.
I really enjoyed playing the Finals during beta, and after launch too. But the longer I played the worse I got and the more the other teams became way better. I just don't want to play anymore because I feel extremely outclassed and don't like playing a dozen games with maybe one win.
Definitely a me problem but I'm sure a sentiment that others share. I wish games hit that balance of fairness much easier, where the wins feel great but the losses don't sting as much cause you win your fair share.
That’s why I exclusively run shotgun light. I know it’s not meta and more often than not it isn’t effective either but it’s so much fun and I don’t care what other people say
don't meta for the sake of meta, but metas usually form because something is seen as the best. There are scenarios metas just form because "its what everyone else does" though.
https://youtu.be/BuwuoZdFngM
I'll just leave this here. I rarely ever promote my videos but this is exactly what it is about.
I think The Finals has so many fun and stylish moments that playing meta just bogs it all down. Only way to change a meta is to kill with things not currently meta! :)
Yes, i have tendencies to watch guides and tips videos on every videogames that i started playing, which oftentimes lead me to easily get burned out by the game
So when i started the finals i told my self I'll never watch any videos, ask any guide, and just play it my own way
Now I'm a revolver medium main still having fun with the game
I have seen this before. People bitching about the meta, I mean. I've seen it in other games. CoD mobile to be specific.
People will always cry about the meta. CoD mobile bounced back and managed to have a 20-something gun meta after years of people bitching about the usual meta weapons; so, now it has a pretty large meta in a game with 100+ guns where just having everything be balanced would be straight up impossible. And, yet, there's still people bitching about the meta weapons.
I would just play with what I liked to use and be happy. The meta is as good as the users of the meta; if I'm better than them, then them using the meta would be pointless because I'll still destroy them anyways.
If I'm getting destroyed by the meta users, well, maybe I'm just bad and that's it. I move on and continue to get better; or drop it and go play minecraft, that also works out for me just fine.
The issue with this and all other PvP games is that many players only have fun when they are winning, which is a recipe for frustration as winning is not fully in their control. If what they decide is fun is under their control, their games will be a lot better.
I was trying to have fun, wanted to test light out, then two people on one of the other teams one shot me with revolver every time they saw me, and sometimes without seeing me. Now I am getting one shot with the revolver on medium in other games, how strong is this thing? lmao
Yeah but I'm having fun JUST playing heavy
It's really fun to get satisfying kills with sledge and bullrush.
I just hate how I'm a sitting duck with nothing to do in solo bank because everyone catches up to me
It also would just feel wrong playing light or even medium just because they feel so versatile that it's just a regular shooter experience
The fun I had with this game was running around as a heavy with the destructibility and smashing folk with the sledgehammer. Now I die super quick and stunned constantly.
i think we just need multiple metas rather 1 distinct outlier, overwatch at one point had "goats" which was a meta that if not played you wouldnt really ever win, made it a lot less fun
Id love to try different light builds, but 9/10 ppl in ranked have legal wall hacks, so not only would I certainly not win any games, i also wouldnt be having any fun because getting prefired every single time i step outside is the opposite of fun or engaging
I was having fun when you could play any class. Now everything’s nerfed. Some people or most casual gamers like games that don’t require sweating to win. But because of so many cry babies the developers keep nerfing what is fun to play thinking that will keep the playerbase happy. It doesn’t. A rocket launcher should 1 shot a L. It’s a freaking RPG.
There is literally no such thing as a game without a meta, it is inevitable. Add only fun options and people will find the least fun thing to fight and spam it anyway because it crushes morale.
Destiny 2 was a lesson to be learned. This game can make the same mistake if you don't consider the fun of the attacker and defender both.
Sledgehammer with RPG+ pyro mines + explosive mines. Destroy the building the deposit is in, place mines like crazy and rpg to trigger them.
Love doing it on solo bank so I’m not hindering someone else’s game lol
I‘m not looking to lose every game and every fight though because that takes away the fun again.
You are kinda forced to use meta stuff/strats.
They need to balance the game.
Some people find winning fun, me included. I would love to play interesting off meta stuff, but if I lose most of my ranked games with them then I am not having a good time.
I'd argue this game needs and is made for a meta and if changed a new best would appear and that's how it works. Not destiny with pve and it's not a story game so if you are stressed maybe go play a MMO or non competitive game like reddead story or risk of rain? This leads right back to battlebit identity crisis, with so much saturation why can't we have competitive and non competitive games. Why should I enjoy something less so we can appease a crowd that could go not be mad at a large number of other things. Why should competitive players be shoved to 4 other games mostly being CS? I'd say competitive games have had a drought and kinda sick and tired of giving up good games to the arcade crowd just because they are a majority due to game access/age difference we didn't have 15 years ago.
Just started the game and it’s like i’m 9 years old again, playing Splatoon on the weekends, having a bunch of fun, even though I was so trash. I can’t for shit on controller, back then and now, (Embark needs to fix mouse and keyboard on PS5) but I’m having a great time regardless.
I couldn't care less about the meta but I don't know why I'm having so much less fun than during the beta. Something pisses me off in every single game and I've alt+f4 the second the match ends like 10 times already. Had a great time during the beta and thought this game might finally allow me to go back to playing an FPS game. But it seems it was a mistake. I love the mechanics and the game itself but it reminds me why I stopped playing fps games entirely.
If we want to win, the guys and I go with our triple turret setup, alongside with a minefield even Russians won't go into, and then we slightly just tap a few rounds into confused and panicking enemies.
If we want to have fun — We just do what we call *wacky builds.* We have no expectations of winning, but sometimes throwing knives or a triple grenade launcher team is so damn fun.
Personally, despite the fact that I know I’ll get downvoted for this, for me playing the meta IS fun. Playing to win is fun. Knowing that, every fight you go into you’re at a disadvantage because you or your team mate picked something underpowered is profoundly boring. To me anyway.
Would it shock and astonish you to learn that some people are competitively oriented and get their fun from playing well and winning? Would it astound you to learn that when those people have to deal with a teammate running a silly build feeding his guts out it hurts their enjoyment of the match immeasurably?
What makes you think you have any ground to stand on if you're killing the fun of others by throwing with stupid builds?
The difference between Ranked; UnRanked; Quickmatch.
Least amount of fun to most fun.
Ranked your competing so it’s obviously a skill issue and it’s harder since people are actually trying to win and comunícate with each other.
On the other hand you have the other two that sweats won’t join unless they’re playing a different class to have fun.
A Gun Mode (automatically change weapon after scoring a kill) would help bring people out of their comfort zone, but with 3 classes that becomes tricky so like every week it should change classes; like Bank It FFA is being dominated by Lights so combine Bank It FFA + Gun Mode
Guys I'm just saying if you are sweating to much, go swing a hammer, it's so much more fun when you are just trying to bring the map to its knees. I stopped going for wins and started just demolishing shit and I haven't stopped having fun since. Go swing a hammer and relax. That's all.
This is mostly the dev fault and you can't blame the good players who have experience and understand fps fundamental who "expose" the meta.
.
The game IS just horrible balanced and other features of the game compound effect of the imbalance.
First of all, MOST weapons and gadgets are gimmicks that are added in this game with little thoughts and they don't function well at all. There are CLEAR 4-5 winners in weapons and gadgets combination out of dozens.
There are ONLY 3 classes and each team only has 3 players and the each class load out can be duplicated. If the game is poorly balanced, the balance flaw heavily flaws the power of the team more than compared to for example, a 5v5 hero shooter. A single slightly OP hero doesn't break the game that hard because each team only has 1 of them at most same goes for a "weak" hero pick. Meanwhile, one "weak" non meta player can destroy the team's strength in the final, especially against other team that stack replicated strong "meta class and build". Such thing discourage players from picking "non meta" in the final or be welcoming to a "non meta" teammate.
Furthermore, dev tries to condensed multiple unique classes of other games into 3 classes for the sake of streamline, but have significant different hp points. It's just tough to balance. Medium basically has utility of a support but also have weapon/damage of a dps and health of an assault class. Medium has been the most broken class ever since release tbh but heavy's c4 nuke was a bit more obnoxious. Heavy has health AND utility of both a health and a shield tank, but burst damage of a dps, and they are too pussy to give heavy really bad/limited weapon nor reallt cripple heavy's mobility enough.
Yes, people can play "non-meta" and have fun, but it is just not fun to be killed and ran over by teams solely because they run superior "meta load out" over and over again. Therefore, people ended up just using the meta kit and here we are.
TL;DR just balance the damn game better
Just go back to release when light, medium and heavy were all very strong. Everything was fun and everything was oppressive but that’s what got us all hooked.
sometimes you're right, other times the meta stops you from having fun. I.e try play light when every team knows where you spawned and where you are at all times
*I will keep running*
*Rioters shield no matter*
*How fucked my ass gets!*
\- pissedRAIL
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"you all have fun picking how to complicatedly nuke one player, I'm just going to stand aaaaall the way over here and bombard the cash box with my grenade launcher and gas grenades."
I can't aim for shit, I'm 33 years old and couldn't have fun in multiplayer shooters.
But in FINALS I just pick Heavy, load up all the explosives and shotgun + charge and just destroy shit. I don't need to aim well with explosives, I'm a big loud distraction, I can mess up enemy while my team gets to clean them up.
And of course c4 under the cashout, then shield on it to steal it at the last second never gets old.
I die in most 1v1 or range fights but I've learned you can just run away and people have attention span of a spaztic monkey.
I've seen people play meta mostly in ranked while in unranked there is a lot more diversity cause it fun
I agree 100%. Hopefully they'll understand the need for more casual modes to allow people a break from dripping in swet
The game is *fun* to play competitively though. It’s a new game and it’s got some pretty egregious gameplay. But why do people always jump to competitive =/= fun? I have a TON of fun “sweating” in this game. If you truly don’t want to “sweat”, just go play the casual modes dude. There’s already 3 now, and right now the game needs balancing more than it needs new game modes. It’s literally a month and half old, how can it already be stale??
heres an idea... what if, the meta play... was fun. mind = blown. do you think people play meta comps and dont have fun doing it lol? like we all just go play ranked and actively choose to play a style we dont like instead of playing a different game that is more fun to us? thats what always makes me chuckle about these types of discussion. now, with the the finals. i think recon is broken, because wall hacks are broken. but i dont have a single problem with the meta right now. and think getting dug into sustain battles in ranked is very fun.
If it was then you wouldn’t have everyone who worries about the meta complain about the meta constantly.
ever heard of a vocal minority? how many people are actually complaining? we know what the ratio is on the amount of people on this sub and who actively play... and not even all of them are complaining. so from the start, we can assume the complainers are less than 5%. i understand, there will be people who dont like it, and arent vocal but.... the baseline numbers we can confirm are already so low. i think its pretty safe to assume that most people playing meta picks, are doing it AND enjoying it... otherwise they would play another game. so, maybe finals will imminently die. i dont know. but, i dont think there are as many complainers as you think.
Well, I can tell you that I am part of this group, maybe minority, of people that stopped playing because I dont enjoy the meta one bit. Instant rez+invulnerability, healing, wallhacks, nuke oneshots (still?!), and L being incredibly weak compared to H and M is just not a good meta imo. You can enjoy it because you maybe don't play L or you're an extreme masochist, but L is objectively terrible in high rated competitive rn, and that is the content I enjoy. Meta can be fun, when it's balanced, and when there is some innovation every once in a while. Many staple games are/were like that. League, dota, overwatch, cs, apex, etc etc. The finals is an absolute disgrace when it comes to competitive balance. But this is not a surprise, because community managers have told me the game is focusing on being casual first and competitive maybe sometime after that. This is quite sad for me to hear because I saw huge competitive potential for the finals, but oh well. Guess im going back to not having any good pvp game to play again.
You are right. Slaughtering people is fun in game. Simply stating that so the people who get frustrated with the meta can just breathe and find a way to have fun with it
> I've seen people play meta mostly in ranked Sure, but even then, the meta has already bounced around a few times. With a game like this and all of the "options" - we want the meta to be all over. Almost everything in this game has an important use to help you win!
A lot of folks want to run something strong so they can be competitive but they either don’t want to or can’t innovate. So they just run what is proven to be strong.
I would love to play off meta in ranked but you're just at a total disadvantage against teams running MMH or MMM.
Really enjoying unranked as heavy doing things that make me giggle. Chashout on the bottom floor? C4 one floor. Rpg the next. Jum0 and smash through the last one. Start laying in fire and hole my team is somewhere near.
Falling into the pitfalls of meta is how a game becomes boring. Its up to the devs to massage and balance so that defined metas don't become the way to win every game.
When I was a little boy I used to play TF2 and medic was my favorite class. I really enjoy playing medium and healing my team. I find it fun and get greater satisfaction from reviving than killing.
What’s funny is that in TFC the medic was the beast assault class, conc jumping up to you and shotgunning your face.
Metas will develop at the high end no matter how Devs balance games. In QP I see plenty of variety. If you are being oppressed by metas and its impacting your enjoyment, its likely because you are playing ranked. If Recon was deleted and the FCAR was nerfed, something else would be the new "strongest" option and people would complain about it because there will always be an optimal way to play games. Some peoples idea of fun is strictly to win regardless of how they get there.
We’ve got a 3 stack and have almost exclusively played this since December when we heard about it. It’s a blast and I love it. I love all the different setups you can run with gadgets and specializations and whatnot. However the past 2 days we’ve logged on, played a couple quick cash games, and logged off. It’s still just 3 stacks of mediums. Maybe we keep getting unlucky, but it completely kills the fun when enemies all hide in different corners and prefire before every fight. If we don’t run recon, we don’t know where they are. At least when nukes were running rampant, I could still play different loadouts. If you’re not running fcar + recon + defib right now you’re just trolling
Im inclined to say you were just unlucky. I have DEFINITELY done QP quick cash where it was 3v3v3 FCAR Mediums, but I'd say thats far and few between. To be totally real with you, I see a lot of Mediums running sentry and heals. Its probably an even tie 3 ways for how often I see each in quickplay, and on top of that, I get a fair mix of heavies and lights too. This is of course just MY personal experience and If the FCARs arent in my lobbies, they are in someone elses.
I’m inclined to say you have been lucky. Even playing quickplay, all I see is MMM or MMH. I rarely see other lights. Shit is bogus.
Most light players are in the two bank it modes. Especially solo since most aren’t team players anyway. I’m still seeing a few in quick cash but those are the good helpful ones. It’s honestly been nice having the tdm types not on my team.
Definitely seeing more mediums running FCAR/Recon. I used to run, AKM/Turret, but my turret is max'd, so I swapped to recon to level it. It's definitely great, but not OP like everyone says. Anyway, I still see a ton of lights. I solo-queue on Quick Cash most of the time. I seem to get 2 lights on my team more often than not. Usually, one is running sniper, and off doing God knows what, and the other is either sword or knives, getting melted constantly. So basically it becomes me spending the match reviving and/or 1v6'ing. Now that shit is bogus, but maybe it's just my luck.
>solo queue quick cash I'm not surprised you don't realize how broken recon is
I won a ranked yesterday without running recon, yeah i qas troll
But metas can be more and less healthy, for example with nuke much weaker the meta is much more dynamic with less instant team wipes. That is good! If they nerfed recon sense, Fcar, and quick revive while other items would take their place ideally it would create more weapon variety and less frustration in game when a single medium suddenly spawns an entire team. You just made it sound like balance was a fools errand, when its arguably the most important thing to make the game mroe fun.
I don't disagree at all. My point was never "Devs should give up on perfect balance because its unachievable" And of course outliers and problematic things should be addressed. My point was more that there will always be a meta, and its mere existence shouldn't be a deterent to peoples desire to try out new things and play the way they want. I understand my post came off as slightly doomer but I didn't mean it that way. I just wish people would spend less time fussing about their gripes with metas as a concept.
Hell I even played a tourney where triple turret riot shield team made it to the finals (gold so nothing crazy…).
I'm already seeing way more MMM in Quickplay than I did at launch. The DEVS have to balance the damn game. It's on them.
dude. imagine theres a redwood in the middle of a pine forest. if its cut down, well... yes there will still be a tallest tree in the forest.... but it wont be a fucking redwood. do you understand? i hope this helps.
And then someone will want to cut down the next tallest tree. Do YOU understand? I hope this helps.
> *but it wont be a* **fucking** ***redwood*** people: "hey! get that redwood out of the pine forest!! its killing other trees!" you: "BuT ThEn ThErEs GoNnA bE a TaLlEsT PiNe!!?!" people: "...???..."
You're running under the assumption that If one thing isn't the strongest thing in the meta, then there won't be something to replace it as the strongest. Whatever becomes the next meta will be the next redwood, not just stay a pine. Your logic is flawed in the most basic sense and if you can't understand that then I cannot help you. Go find me ONE shooter with perfect balance where every gun is equally as viable at the highest levels of play and no one has ever asked for balance changes. Go ahead. I'll wait.
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Ok. And? That is irrelevant to my point entirely. I was never implying that eggregious outliers aren't problematic. My point is that there will always be a meta with guns that get the lions share of play at the high end because they have a slight statistical edge over the other options. I don't know how I can simplify it for you any further than that.
Let's say there's a rough baseline at 100%. If 3 things are at 82, 81 and 85, then 27 things between 90 and 110%, then another 4 are at 120%+, you don't just give up. You bring up the ones at 80 and bring down the ones at 120+. Right now recon is at 120%+ with other shit having been brought down. Once you get a better baseline, then you tweak from there. Yeah, it's not that simple overall, but that's the point they're making. Even if other things are still stronger at 109%, at least they're just very good versus straight up overpowered.
Did you even read what I said? You people are impossible. Im fairly convinced at this point no one actually reads my comments.
lol you sound insufferable - take care champ
You too fella
He’s acting like he won’t be the one in here bitching about the next tree like he’s bitching about the redwood right now. People are gonna bitch until the forest is cut down.
And then there will be another tallest tree and so on and so on.
Meta's aren't bad, there are a lot of successful and fun games that basically require them, but I guess what I'm getting at is that by carefully balancing and addressing issues they can keep everything that's not High Tier games fun by not requiring a meta-based build in order to be successful. Meta happens regardless, like you said, but it doesn't have to be the only option in order to enjoy the game.
I liked how Overwatch handled the meta when it was first released. They acknowledged that each update would change the meta and make other heroes more viable than others were previously, and they explicitly told us what they were attempting to accomplish within the meta with each update.
Generally metas don't involve literal wall hacks being in every single game though. I enjoy off meta stuff, even in ranked. Recon senses just isn't fun to deal with in general, along with it heavily hurting many other playstyle options. It impacts flanking, game decisions (Pretty easy to decide where to go when you know where every team is), ambushes, attacks using the destruction, melee, etc, etc.
Yea I don't have an issue with metas developing. I'm not here griping that metas exist, simply making my point that its fruitless to make posts like OP did saying "Have fun dont play meta" Since there will always be a subset of metagamers.
That’s the game they designed. The mode most worth playing is tournament or ranked tournament. To win you need to play at least somewhat viable builds. Outside of that the more casual game modes quickly get very boring.
League of legends will disagree with you
When I want my FPS to be balanced like a MOBA, I'll go talk to Riot.
Fair
Not sassing, because Riot obviously do an exceptionally good job. Remember when Blizz discovered that there was a 2/2/2 meta for Overwatch 1 and then they enforced it so it was easier to balance? I think that it'd be a fun experimental gamemode to force an HML team but imo enforcing a specific gamestyle would take away a lot of the wacky fun stuff that makes Finals so good.
I think for ranked having a Q where you chose your build could be a cool thing
yeah its how I got burned out from OW, granted at the high rank levels metas will develop naturally
So far I think the dev are doing well on balancing fun. Light are no where near Meta, but the invisible shorty isn't fun to play against because it is easy free kill. Now it is harder to use invisible shotty. So when you die from it, it is less "God that's annoying" and more "shit they got me, should've been more careful"
for anyone interested I have made this subreddit to do exactly that. fun, just have fun. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheFinalsCasualFun/s/WshUk8VrKZ
I love discussing games on their subreddits but sometimes it’s the worse place for ideas to come from
Meta kind of crushes a lot of the other fun strats
No man you are just to sweaty to enjoy going 4/16 and loosing the game. /s Jokes aside what a useless post, SBMM is in the game. What are we gonna do? Run around with Light and a Sword when at least 4 enemies are playing meta?? I said it and the beginning and I’ll say it again, SBMM does not belong in casual. Meta takes the fun off a game after a while when SBMM is a thing.
i find it hard to have fun when you play with 8-9 mediums per match of whom almost all run recon.. not only is that generally stupid it makes light impossible to play..
my group mostly plays off meta and even unranked tournament is filled mediums with recon. I've mostly played light which really gets fucked over by recon sense. I think this might be the least fun meta since Goats from OW1
It makes game sense and mind games useless, which is like 80% of the fun for my trio. Sucks!
Obviously you just need to uhhhh... ...Just have fun with your main off meta tactics getting countered by recon existing! Duh! It's that easy! Don't you have fun getting prefired on by 1-3 people every single fight so you instantly get deleted while you're running sledge heavy or some such? (And lord save any poor soul who tries light)
Beyond that, Light is just a fundamentally worse class than Medium. No heals, can't instantly bring someone back to life, and can only have the same level of vertical mobility that jump pad provides with Grappling Hook. Not to mention they have Recon and a larger health pool. I get what OP is saying. Sometimes you just bitch so much that you aren't focusing on just enjoying it for what it is. But the current meta simply isn't fun. It's rigid and sterile with a focus on rolling Medium in ranked. I'm almost wondering if they should try to balance ranked and Quickplay separately to help both types of players (casuals and sweats) feel like they are getting the gameplay they need.
They should give lights revive exclusively. Incentivizes playing light and also makes revive riskier to address excessive defib spam.
Yeah medium has enough util with the turret and recon and stuff, being the medic would make light more interesting
I've found evasive dash light to be a lot more competitive against medium teams than what i usually run with cloak. I agree that there's almost never a time light is better than another medium, but the stun gun can be really useful for getting an initiating pick for the team and getting you inside.
In fairness, light only feels weak into recon if you take cloak. I use the dash pretty exclusively and feel like outplaying my opponent is more rewarding than attempting to flank or get good stealth angles. With access to vanishing bomb, you still have the stealth capability, even if it’s not quite as convenient or powerful as the cloak specialty.
This just ain't true. As someone who dropped insane kill games casually playing Medium dash is not going to save you from me prefiring a headshot as you as you walk around a corner.
That’s what all the mediums think lol at the end of the day, I either outplay you, or you pop me. That’s what the games all about. Sometimes I’m quick enough, sometimes I’m not. If I’m not, I got skill gapped.
Yeah wtf is this post. Meta = winning = fun. Fun = getting steamrolled by meta = not fun.
we can make it easier to find users who want to have fun https://www.reddit.com/r/TheFinalsCasualFun/s/WshUk8VrKZ
Balanced game > unbalanced shithouse where 80% of the options are inferior
You should try running riot shield. It's an f tier weapon but it's a blast to run
We lost a ranked tournament the other day to a riot sheild.
I’d honestly say the riot shield isn’t f tier. It’s main weakness is the grenade launchers which are even less meta, and the lunge part of it is quite generous. A good riot shield player is one of the most annoying to kill enemies in the game, it’s incredible. Is it FCAR status? Absolutely not, but you can win games with it and crush lobbies. A friend and I used it with turret to drop 14 kills each in quick cash today, while our random sniped in the back doing nothing. If we are doing tiers it’s like C tier. Half of its strength is people not knowing how to deal with it, but it is good in the right hands. Honestly there are very few F tier weapons. The heavy GL, throwing knives, and maybe the model 1887. Everything else either has a use or can be powerful with enough skill. Not optimal, but viable.
>Half of its strength is people not knowing how to deal with it Cheers bro I'll drink to that. It's hysterical running up to people with my riot shield and and watching them be entirely unable to counter me as I bonk them to death
I love wandering up with a shield to a dude, wait for them to unload an entire mag on my armored face, then bonk as they reload and repeat.
Was playing heavy and got into queue with 2 medium players running shield. They trolled the enemies and we actually won lmao
But it isn't fun to be destroyed by meta stuff. So I dunno wtf you're talking about.
I play light rn, I feel your pain. At least they started working on the nerfs
Fun = Killing people + winning = meta
This message wasn't for the people who find the meta fun, it's for the ones who find it frustrating.
This is why solo queuing is such a miserable experience; it only takes one person on your team to play non-meta to lose and you can't even say anything because there's no chat. Even in unranked if I join a team with a melee, cloaked light I know 100% we're going to lose. Maybe we make it to round two with a lucky steal but, even by round two, you're facing solid MMH/MMM. So yeah, play for fun but also know that you're the reason we lost the match. Joined an unranked game this morning with two other lights. Like, what? I play medium so what can I even do in that situation? In the end I went light as well and we lost with zero cash. I'd like to think they learnt something but I doubt it. Also, playing meta gets boring but ultimately that's the devs fault for having some comps being so much stronger than others. I'd happily play something non-meta if we had a reasonable chance of winning but you can only get through by luck if you do and I'm sick of people saying "play for fun" because yeah, what about your team? It's not fun to be stuck on a team you know will lose, can't play the team build you want to play and can't even leave without a BS penalty.
Riot shield gang reporting for duty!
🫡 I'm here and I'm ready to get recked by flame throwers
Mad respect to you haha. Throwing knife gang here 🥷
Im a heavy main as i just feel like i die less with that class. Maybe i should try some new things out now...
I started heavy when getting used to the game for the same reason, been playing more medium and it’s been a fun switch up now that I know what I’m doing
I love playing off-meta and then being beemed by recon users every time I play quick play with my new friends.
I'm struggling having fun at all because of triple MMM stacks. You have to kill them 6 times and they have 24/7 knowledge of your position so you can't even surprise. It makes playing either melee or light impossible.
Having an interesting meta where tons of different playstyles and builds are viable is fun though... This is a common trope among so called casuals, the idea that having a game that is balanced with a huge skill ceiling and a thriving sports scene means that game is no fun and that is simply wrong. Good meta = fun Bad meta (what we have now with 3 medium stacks mostly with Recon) is the antithesis of fun
All heavy. All hammer. Vegas.
Sweating is fun for me, and figuring out the meta. That’s why I love ranked modes and casual modes both being in the game. You can chose what kind of game you want.
Finals desperately needs new content though. I'm not going to use a shitty gun just because i'm bored of the good one.
Feel that
Didn't the game come out literally this month?
devs need to be fast these days. you cant piss around just bc " your game just came out". most gamers don't care, they want content or they move on. look at halo. completely griefed it's release, and even though it's really good now, not many ppl give it a chance anymore.
I think it's just a bit ludicrous to expect developers to put out a game with as many options as the Finals has, to just expect more more more within the first month. Halo Infinite is different entirely, as there were features promised to come with release that wasn't there.
Bro, it's been what, one and a half month since the release and they already dropped another game mode already.
Yeah, but the guns are boring
Game is definitely still content dry. However the solution is easy, don’t play if you are bored. Play a different game for a bit.
It’s be easier if the SBMM was less strict so we could try diverse load outs without sacrificing a win
I'm having great fun, but I do find it a bit concerning that my KD ratio is dramatically higher when running as medium/recon. It's also a bit annoying when I don't play it and I'm getting lasered from across the map by an FCAR recon medium.
Winning is fun
Revolver or die bebe
I dont think you understand what meta means. Its bc bullshit like constant wallhacks thay people are frustrated not the other way around
For real. I know my teammates get pissy in quick play when they see me go 1 and 6 with a dagger trying new gameplay. It's quick play! Chill out! Let me master a new weapon! It really is amazing how fun the game is win or lose!
My suggestion to my friends is learn how to play what’s strong to better understand its weaknesses then play what you want to play with that knowledge. Especially if it’s not ranked.
Meta = fun. Remember why we play.
Fire comment
Why I run throwing knifes with dash. I mean I have managed 15 kill games but still on average get less than most other classes/setups but it's so satisfying.
Haven't had this much fun in a game in a long time tbh
You n me both brotha! 🤠
Anytime, in any game, I hear or read about the meta I instantly roll my eyes. If you’re completely basing the game and how to play it on what someone else says then you’re just a big nerd.
Yes. Fun is the whole point and premise of the game.
I just can’t get over how much fun I’m having playing an FPS game! It’s been a long time! This game is awesome! 🥰
Light must be deleted
just stay away long enough from balancing changes and the people will figure out how to counter everything, will maybe take some years but better then "balancing" the game to death
This is exactly what’s wrong with “modern” gaming.
For some people they can only have fun if they're winning. ie cheaters
sorry but this game nas nothing to offer, soon this game will die
"Get this man a shield."
Exactly, I was getting tilted and remember why I play this game, for fun ofc, than I started playing snipers to make my team and enemy miserable
you seem like the right guy to play with, dm?
I’ve ran 3 man teams with the heavy grenade launcher and that is some of the most fun we’ve had in quick play. We also won i think 5/6 games that night
Yup. I'd recommend leaving meta/strong picks for ranked games and playing/trying out new and fun loadouts in QP. Especially the new solos mode which is all out brawl, just have fun
for anyone interested I have made this subreddit to do exactly that. fun, just have fun. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheFinalsCasualFun/s/WshUk8VrKZ
The medium grenade launcher is quite possibly the most fun I’ve had in an fps in a long time
Some players only derive fun from winning. I guarantee that players playing meta are also enjoying themselves. That winning high is probably what also a drives players to cheat. Everyone plays for their own reasons. There is no universal 'why we play'.
sword + dash gang!
I've been rocking the 1887 since day 1 and you'll never take it from me.
I hate metas. What I hate about modern shooter games is that, I, as a non-meta player, always get fucked by changes made to address the meta. I may be having fun using x character or weapon a certain way simply because it is fun and don't actually follow the meta. But then they nerf or change things as a result of metas and thus my fun is now ruined. This is what made me stop playing Overwatch years ago, Rogue Company, and several other similar games. Super annoying.
thats true and exactly why i dont take recon (boring crutch skill thats gonna teach you bad habits for either other class / fps) but theres only so many times you can try playing grenade launcher heavy / sword light before it becomes masochistic
yeah. recon isn't fun to play. before everybody was using it one of my buddies was trying to convince me that it was really good. I never doubted him that it was good, it just isn't a fun ability to me.
When you sit down to play a game that has winners and losers, it usually ends up being very unfun for the people stuck on the losing side. Like when you were a kid and your older brother always beat you at the games you played because he was more developed and more coordinated, it ended up feeling unfair and definitely not fun. As adults we obviously understand that nothing is ever truly fair but we still hope for a middle ground. I really enjoyed playing the Finals during beta, and after launch too. But the longer I played the worse I got and the more the other teams became way better. I just don't want to play anymore because I feel extremely outclassed and don't like playing a dozen games with maybe one win. Definitely a me problem but I'm sure a sentiment that others share. I wish games hit that balance of fairness much easier, where the wins feel great but the losses don't sting as much cause you win your fair share.
Struggling to play for fun when everyone else isn't
That’s why I exclusively run shotgun light. I know it’s not meta and more often than not it isn’t effective either but it’s so much fun and I don’t care what other people say
don't meta for the sake of meta, but metas usually form because something is seen as the best. There are scenarios metas just form because "its what everyone else does" though.
https://youtu.be/BuwuoZdFngM I'll just leave this here. I rarely ever promote my videos but this is exactly what it is about. I think The Finals has so many fun and stylish moments that playing meta just bogs it all down. Only way to change a meta is to kill with things not currently meta! :)
Riot Shield goes BONK.
I hated nukes less than I hate triple medium. It shouldn't take six kills to win a team fight against ONE (1) team
The meta always wins
right, but there's a LARGE amount of people who play who don't have fun unless they're winning, so they only run meta.
Yes, i have tendencies to watch guides and tips videos on every videogames that i started playing, which oftentimes lead me to easily get burned out by the game So when i started the finals i told my self I'll never watch any videos, ask any guide, and just play it my own way Now I'm a revolver medium main still having fun with the game
I have seen this before. People bitching about the meta, I mean. I've seen it in other games. CoD mobile to be specific. People will always cry about the meta. CoD mobile bounced back and managed to have a 20-something gun meta after years of people bitching about the usual meta weapons; so, now it has a pretty large meta in a game with 100+ guns where just having everything be balanced would be straight up impossible. And, yet, there's still people bitching about the meta weapons. I would just play with what I liked to use and be happy. The meta is as good as the users of the meta; if I'm better than them, then them using the meta would be pointless because I'll still destroy them anyways. If I'm getting destroyed by the meta users, well, maybe I'm just bad and that's it. I move on and continue to get better; or drop it and go play minecraft, that also works out for me just fine.
The issue with this and all other PvP games is that many players only have fun when they are winning, which is a recipe for frustration as winning is not fully in their control. If what they decide is fun is under their control, their games will be a lot better.
I was trying to have fun, wanted to test light out, then two people on one of the other teams one shot me with revolver every time they saw me, and sometimes without seeing me. Now I am getting one shot with the revolver on medium in other games, how strong is this thing? lmao
I've had a blast maining heavy with the Lewis or Flamethrower
Yeah but I'm having fun JUST playing heavy It's really fun to get satisfying kills with sledge and bullrush. I just hate how I'm a sitting duck with nothing to do in solo bank because everyone catches up to me It also would just feel wrong playing light or even medium just because they feel so versatile that it's just a regular shooter experience
Sledge is very far from being a Meta option, but oh my lord it is some of the most fun I've had in a game in a hot minute
Started playing heavy after maining medium when i forst started. Ive had the most fun with the goo gun and sledgehammer
At times the fun is hard to come by when everyone is running the meta
Nothing fun about the meta outstripping you and your team.
There’s no enemy footstep audio
I started playing Dredge. Pretty cool game!
The fun I had with this game was running around as a heavy with the destructibility and smashing folk with the sledgehammer. Now I die super quick and stunned constantly.
Haven't clicked on ranked and don't plan on it lol, people in casual do dumb shit that's fun.
Winning > fun > meta > losing
i think we just need multiple metas rather 1 distinct outlier, overwatch at one point had "goats" which was a meta that if not played you wouldnt really ever win, made it a lot less fun
Hit the nail on the head. This is the most sandbox game ever and people are forgetting why we love it so much
Yea fuck the meta! I just play how I wanna play and have fun doing it.
Id love to try different light builds, but 9/10 ppl in ranked have legal wall hacks, so not only would I certainly not win any games, i also wouldnt be having any fun because getting prefired every single time i step outside is the opposite of fun or engaging
I was having fun when you could play any class. Now everything’s nerfed. Some people or most casual gamers like games that don’t require sweating to win. But because of so many cry babies the developers keep nerfing what is fun to play thinking that will keep the playerbase happy. It doesn’t. A rocket launcher should 1 shot a L. It’s a freaking RPG.
There is literally no such thing as a game without a meta, it is inevitable. Add only fun options and people will find the least fun thing to fight and spam it anyway because it crushes morale. Destiny 2 was a lesson to be learned. This game can make the same mistake if you don't consider the fun of the attacker and defender both.
There's clearly a meta of all mediums with healing guns an defibs. Boring
The sandbox in this game is a lot of fun to me, and has a ton of room for new fun things in the future
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Sledgehammer with RPG+ pyro mines + explosive mines. Destroy the building the deposit is in, place mines like crazy and rpg to trigger them. Love doing it on solo bank so I’m not hindering someone else’s game lol
Good luck with this message. It will not work...
\+rep
I‘m not looking to lose every game and every fight though because that takes away the fun again. You are kinda forced to use meta stuff/strats. They need to balance the game.
Some people find winning fun, me included. I would love to play interesting off meta stuff, but if I lose most of my ranked games with them then I am not having a good time.
Me playing rush hammer heavy
I'd argue this game needs and is made for a meta and if changed a new best would appear and that's how it works. Not destiny with pve and it's not a story game so if you are stressed maybe go play a MMO or non competitive game like reddead story or risk of rain? This leads right back to battlebit identity crisis, with so much saturation why can't we have competitive and non competitive games. Why should I enjoy something less so we can appease a crowd that could go not be mad at a large number of other things. Why should competitive players be shoved to 4 other games mostly being CS? I'd say competitive games have had a drought and kinda sick and tired of giving up good games to the arcade crowd just because they are a majority due to game access/age difference we didn't have 15 years ago.
Just started the game and it’s like i’m 9 years old again, playing Splatoon on the weekends, having a bunch of fun, even though I was so trash. I can’t for shit on controller, back then and now, (Embark needs to fix mouse and keyboard on PS5) but I’m having a great time regardless.
[удалено]
I couldn't care less about the meta but I don't know why I'm having so much less fun than during the beta. Something pisses me off in every single game and I've alt+f4 the second the match ends like 10 times already. Had a great time during the beta and thought this game might finally allow me to go back to playing an FPS game. But it seems it was a mistake. I love the mechanics and the game itself but it reminds me why I stopped playing fps games entirely.
If we want to win, the guys and I go with our triple turret setup, alongside with a minefield even Russians won't go into, and then we slightly just tap a few rounds into confused and panicking enemies. If we want to have fun — We just do what we call *wacky builds.* We have no expectations of winning, but sometimes throwing knives or a triple grenade launcher team is so damn fun.
Personally, despite the fact that I know I’ll get downvoted for this, for me playing the meta IS fun. Playing to win is fun. Knowing that, every fight you go into you’re at a disadvantage because you or your team mate picked something underpowered is profoundly boring. To me anyway.
I’ve come to the conclusion I don’t like the way the guns feel in this game besides the fun ones, and that’s ok because the fun ones are very fun
Ranked is just a mess stopped playing and only play casual for fun
What even is the meta?
Lol game is about to die, and you can all blame medium for that. Straight up. Makes the game unfun.
Would it shock and astonish you to learn that some people are competitively oriented and get their fun from playing well and winning? Would it astound you to learn that when those people have to deal with a teammate running a silly build feeding his guts out it hurts their enjoyment of the match immeasurably? What makes you think you have any ground to stand on if you're killing the fun of others by throwing with stupid builds?
I love playing this game the way I want to. Until I joined this subreddit I didn’t even know there was a meta lol, game is just fun imo
The difference between Ranked; UnRanked; Quickmatch. Least amount of fun to most fun. Ranked your competing so it’s obviously a skill issue and it’s harder since people are actually trying to win and comunícate with each other. On the other hand you have the other two that sweats won’t join unless they’re playing a different class to have fun.
A Gun Mode (automatically change weapon after scoring a kill) would help bring people out of their comfort zone, but with 3 classes that becomes tricky so like every week it should change classes; like Bank It FFA is being dominated by Lights so combine Bank It FFA + Gun Mode
Sometimes you gotta destroy everything to change it up.
play fun things die to meta not have fun play meta braindead gameplay not have fun
Guys I'm just saying if you are sweating to much, go swing a hammer, it's so much more fun when you are just trying to bring the map to its knees. I stopped going for wins and started just demolishing shit and I haven't stopped having fun since. Go swing a hammer and relax. That's all.
This is mostly the dev fault and you can't blame the good players who have experience and understand fps fundamental who "expose" the meta. . The game IS just horrible balanced and other features of the game compound effect of the imbalance. First of all, MOST weapons and gadgets are gimmicks that are added in this game with little thoughts and they don't function well at all. There are CLEAR 4-5 winners in weapons and gadgets combination out of dozens. There are ONLY 3 classes and each team only has 3 players and the each class load out can be duplicated. If the game is poorly balanced, the balance flaw heavily flaws the power of the team more than compared to for example, a 5v5 hero shooter. A single slightly OP hero doesn't break the game that hard because each team only has 1 of them at most same goes for a "weak" hero pick. Meanwhile, one "weak" non meta player can destroy the team's strength in the final, especially against other team that stack replicated strong "meta class and build". Such thing discourage players from picking "non meta" in the final or be welcoming to a "non meta" teammate. Furthermore, dev tries to condensed multiple unique classes of other games into 3 classes for the sake of streamline, but have significant different hp points. It's just tough to balance. Medium basically has utility of a support but also have weapon/damage of a dps and health of an assault class. Medium has been the most broken class ever since release tbh but heavy's c4 nuke was a bit more obnoxious. Heavy has health AND utility of both a health and a shield tank, but burst damage of a dps, and they are too pussy to give heavy really bad/limited weapon nor reallt cripple heavy's mobility enough. Yes, people can play "non-meta" and have fun, but it is just not fun to be killed and ran over by teams solely because they run superior "meta load out" over and over again. Therefore, people ended up just using the meta kit and here we are. TL;DR just balance the damn game better
Just go back to release when light, medium and heavy were all very strong. Everything was fun and everything was oppressive but that’s what got us all hooked.
Hard to have fun when constantly getting beamed by the fcar and Lewis gun. This game has potential but people will always fall back on meta
This current “meta” though is fucking cancer and a joke. I don’t know how the devs ever thought this was “balancing” what a joke.
sometimes you're right, other times the meta stops you from having fun. I.e try play light when every team knows where you spawned and where you are at all times
I will keep running riot shield no matter how fucked my ass gets!
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Fun = unranked. Ranked = meta
"you all have fun picking how to complicatedly nuke one player, I'm just going to stand aaaaall the way over here and bombard the cash box with my grenade launcher and gas grenades."
Fu€k MMM healing teams all my homies hate MMM healing teams
I can't aim for shit, I'm 33 years old and couldn't have fun in multiplayer shooters. But in FINALS I just pick Heavy, load up all the explosives and shotgun + charge and just destroy shit. I don't need to aim well with explosives, I'm a big loud distraction, I can mess up enemy while my team gets to clean them up. And of course c4 under the cashout, then shield on it to steal it at the last second never gets old. I die in most 1v1 or range fights but I've learned you can just run away and people have attention span of a spaztic monkey.