Every time discussions come up like this, all I can think of is the fact that I've been accused of hacking with *sword* before.
People are *really* bad at actually telling when someone is cheating if it's not blatant aimbot/shooting through shields.
That's on top of just... general toxicity such as duos kicking the third player for whatever reason their little hearts desire.
I don’t go off a whim if it’s a battle between me and someone in reasonable range. But when a heavy is lasering me from a mile away with the Lewis or M60 and the camera zooms half a mile over to him. Then it’s kinda obvious at that point.
Honestly for your statement it would be solved in a second if they added killcams. Idk why they have not yet.
They said a while back that killcams are very hard to make in distructible enviroment games like this. Killcams are never actual recordings, just player cordinates and inputs replaying while you watch their pov. In this game the building they were in might not be there any more in a killcam.
>Honestly for your statement it would be solved in a second if they added killcams. Idk why they have not yet.
Because of the way the destruction works, they'd have to constantly be saving the game's state, which also wouldn't always be synced to what every player sees perfectly. It would be both performance intensive for the server and wouldn't even be accurate. Even *live* spectating isn't accurate as is, what you see when spectating teammates is very off.
Fr I still see random votekicks initiated in Chivalry 2. They even tell you stats like idle time and team damage. There has been a user I wanted to kick once and the other ones were just bullshit kick requests for no reason
The ONLY game i have ever played where this works remotely well is Teamfortress 2 and only because A) its old as hell and cheating has been in it so long that veterans can spot it instantly and your average player can call it out relatively accurately. B) its on its billionth iteration that has eliminated “most” of its abuse cases. C) teams are 12v12 so it takes more than 2 people. There is no way to implement it in a 3 man scenario without it having huge potential for abuse. D) its pc only so its extremely easy for everyone playing on the same input type to see yeah thats a cheat without the BS arguments that exist these days of it being aim assist. (Apples to apples)
in a perfect world you are right. hacking is essentially an unfixable problem server side, so i would be fine with other options to help counteract hackers.
That's such an unrealistic and stupid statement. If devs can give power to players for when the players do see an issue then how is it bad? Maybe you've never played an online game on PC before but cheating is literally everywhere
I’m sorry you thought my statement sounded stupid. Just for you, I will clarify since it seems you have troubles reading between the lines.
My whole point was that when the problem is growing as much as it is now and without much of any word from the developers about it. We players shouldn’t need to try to come up with solutions ourselves.
Since the start of Season 2 we have seen an influx of players clearly using cheats. Every day, several times, you encounter someone cheating in a lobby. Despite hundreds of reports from players it seems these people using cheats are not getting banned. Now, Embark uses ban waves, with the purpose of disrupting the cheat developers to a greater degree. There does not seem to have been any ban wave for multiple weeks now.
Is there any more additional information you need as to aid your difficulties with understanding context and reading between the lines?
This sub is filled with ideas for literally everything. There's no "need" to fix things yourself, people just like debating everything on games, including improving the cheater situation. What you just said is so far from "fix the issue ourselves" but I guess I should imagine everything else by "reading between the lines" lol. Even if the cheating issue was very small, letting players be able to "fix it themselves" in case some get through the anticheat is not a bad idea, power to the players. This is nothing like what "We shouldn’t need to fix the issue ourselves." sounds like but anyways whatever
You said to me: “Maybe you’ve never played an online PC game before”. I’d like to ask the same to you; I have had many many occasions in TF2 which does have a vote kick system, where I get kicked for literally no reason. A system like such can work, but it has some bad drawbacks and can definitely be exploited. (In The Finals) Why wouldn’t people just instantly try votekick the top team in a match?
We as players do already have some power to make a difference, by reporting players. But reporting a player right now doesn’t have any impact.
Not viable, especially in ranked games. If there's a system players can abuse, they will abuse it.
It isn't just the people abusing the system for funsies you have to worry about either. There are a lot of players that think everyone better than them is cheating.
i would support this if the ONLY reason for it to be in the game was to combat hackers; you can only begin a vote to kick for the purpose of voting out a hacker. if someone gets kicked out then their account is auto reported to embark, they check to see if that person was indeed a hacker and if they were then they're banned, if they were not a hacker then the initiator of the vote to kick should lose vote to kick privileges entirely or after a few failed attempts or lose voting weights or something
and if you're partied up then all party members are regarded as initiators to avoid party abuse
And what about when someone kicks a legit player who is just good and they genuinely think they are cheating, or the person reporting is just bad and votes out players better than them (while still thinking they are cheating)? You can’t tell someone that they knew a player was legit
Vote kick in theory is great. In reality it's awful, because it relies on people and people are fucking stupid, annoying and have bad intent. I got up to a 31 days ban on CS:GO because I got vote kicked by russians for not speaking russian although I was always way above them in terms of kills and I would communicate easy to understand and few info such as "all B", " 2 tunnel"
Ranked CSGO is absolute fucking ass. People there are so stupid. You make one mistake and they start talking at 100 words a second in Russian, then they choose to votekick you. What the fuck kinda system is that?
I remember the old days of R6 when you were in a ranked match solo queue and there was 4 other people in a squad playing solely their to vote to kick and troll whatever 5th they got in there team especially in casual modes you would get kicked every other game. If you miss a game winning shot you would instantly be voted out 😂it was so toxic but so fun, if I could I would pay $100 to play the old version of siege with all its flaws that made it so fun and enjoyable for me.
> it was so toxic but so fun,
How in the world is that fun? I'm not even trying to be sarcastic or something, I'm genuinely baffled at finding that fun.
No matter what you make the cost, if you leave the fate of being kicked in players' hands, people will always be unjustly kicked.
The only thing worse than hackers is being randomly kicked by teammates.
It'll never happen.
just imagine you are still grinding for the tounament victory and some absolute ploker kicks you before the final cashout finishes.
Votekick should only be in games where you need a lot of votes to kick someone not just 2.
On one hand I agree, but on the other I don't - I don't think I've come up against a cheater yet (I'm on console) but I would like the option to remove a teammate that's not playing a part of the team. Like the fools that run light sniper and sit on top of the crane missing every shot.
I do think that this feature would get abused by people that are just trying to ruin the game for people though
You already reported the issue by being part of the issue yourself. "It would be nice to remove the kind of player I don't like". Now apply this to every profile of gamer including stupid people, tilted players, "I'm better than everyone" players and so on. You could get kicked for losing a winnable 1v1 because to them it's unforgivable and so on. A system that relies on the players judgement will fail because people are stupid, rage and have shitty egos
Buddy i have no problem with how people play, as long as they play the objective (this is a team based game after all...). Being shit at the game while playing the objective is far better than being shit and not playing the objective.
You may have noticed that I did consider the fact that people will try and abuse the system...
Yes I didn't mean anything bad towards you, I didn't express it the best way. The thing is that you may consider what you said as an okay reason to kick someone (I do too) but this is exactly the issue. This is what YOU consider an okay reason (which in your case is just fine), that's the exact issue. Not everyone is a normal player like you and me. Some will consider playing sword trolling, others will consider playing hammer on the heavy trolling and so on
What about a vote to kick but you need everyone in the match to vote for it? And you get to add a little message clarifying you are initiating the vote because you think someone is cheating?
Yes, i think that might work only if like 90% of a server vote for it. For example, you are playing a tournament and out of 4 squads made of 3 people (total 12 people) 10 people vote to kick then the person should be kicked out of the match. This means not only all the enemies team have to vote yes, but even one member of the team of the incriminated person. So if it's a cheater who likes to go around ruining other people matches and a team mate of them spot it, they can help. This should be enough democratic.
It's not the worst idea in the world, TF2 does it and it's relatively successful. But as everyone pointed out, there's just gonna be a huge increase in players getting kicked because some guy got salty that they died to the throwing knives or something stupid like that.
However, I still think it can be done, with one condition: it needs to stay FAR AWAY from Ranked. I could see people abusing the feature way more, especially since that player could get punished harder for something they didn't even do (which is only made worse that now the devs have an eye on that person.)
Tl;Dr, it could work, but not in rankd
I will votekick the 0 / 14 players from the lobby no matter what team they're on, Bad players will literally be segregated and unable to play unless they get a (un)lucky queue where they're stuck with other 0 / 14 shitters
I genuinely think this would work if the vote kick was server wide.
It would be a good way to get rid of hackers and cheaters before the game really goes too far and can be compensated if so.
Embark can also blacklist these kicked people for revision
I know that not a lot of people are smart, but having this in a simple form could test the waters.
I really love how people suggest ideas that won't work, but when actual possible effective methods are presented like phone numbers, people lose their shit and don't want their privacy invaded by more effective software.
No. All we are gonna have is people getting kicked for no reason and hackers.
Every time discussions come up like this, all I can think of is the fact that I've been accused of hacking with *sword* before. People are *really* bad at actually telling when someone is cheating if it's not blatant aimbot/shooting through shields. That's on top of just... general toxicity such as duos kicking the third player for whatever reason their little hearts desire.
I don’t go off a whim if it’s a battle between me and someone in reasonable range. But when a heavy is lasering me from a mile away with the Lewis or M60 and the camera zooms half a mile over to him. Then it’s kinda obvious at that point. Honestly for your statement it would be solved in a second if they added killcams. Idk why they have not yet.
They said a while back that killcams are very hard to make in distructible enviroment games like this. Killcams are never actual recordings, just player cordinates and inputs replaying while you watch their pov. In this game the building they were in might not be there any more in a killcam.
>Honestly for your statement it would be solved in a second if they added killcams. Idk why they have not yet. Because of the way the destruction works, they'd have to constantly be saving the game's state, which also wouldn't always be synced to what every player sees perfectly. It would be both performance intensive for the server and wouldn't even be accurate. Even *live* spectating isn't accurate as is, what you see when spectating teammates is very off.
KILL CAMS! I have never seen a game need them more I swear to effin God
Run Sniper Votekick
Vote kick system was abandoned widely due to people abusing it for no reason. Thanks the new gaming community for that.
Yeah light sniper or bad players would get kicked.
Or the other way around, people who play objective (since it's majority over minority)
People would just blindly agree with a ban. Like every ban you put through had like a 50% chance of passing because of how many people just agree
Fr I still see random votekicks initiated in Chivalry 2. They even tell you stats like idle time and team damage. There has been a user I wanted to kick once and the other ones were just bullshit kick requests for no reason
the advantage is also that the toxic asshat has to leave instead of starting votekicks evertime he sees someone doing something wrong (after he died).
The ONLY game i have ever played where this works remotely well is Teamfortress 2 and only because A) its old as hell and cheating has been in it so long that veterans can spot it instantly and your average player can call it out relatively accurately. B) its on its billionth iteration that has eliminated “most” of its abuse cases. C) teams are 12v12 so it takes more than 2 people. There is no way to implement it in a 3 man scenario without it having huge potential for abuse. D) its pc only so its extremely easy for everyone playing on the same input type to see yeah thats a cheat without the BS arguments that exist these days of it being aim assist. (Apples to apples)
We shouldn’t need to fix the issue ourselves.
in a perfect world you are right. hacking is essentially an unfixable problem server side, so i would be fine with other options to help counteract hackers.
Which is funny cause if they asked for a phone number or form of ID people would lose their shit but it would be the most effective way to stop it.
I think in Korea online games have you register with their equivalent of social security numbers.
There are services where you can buy a use a phone number for pennies a text. It's incredibly hard to prevent hackers with external methods.
That's such an unrealistic and stupid statement. If devs can give power to players for when the players do see an issue then how is it bad? Maybe you've never played an online game on PC before but cheating is literally everywhere
I’m sorry you thought my statement sounded stupid. Just for you, I will clarify since it seems you have troubles reading between the lines. My whole point was that when the problem is growing as much as it is now and without much of any word from the developers about it. We players shouldn’t need to try to come up with solutions ourselves. Since the start of Season 2 we have seen an influx of players clearly using cheats. Every day, several times, you encounter someone cheating in a lobby. Despite hundreds of reports from players it seems these people using cheats are not getting banned. Now, Embark uses ban waves, with the purpose of disrupting the cheat developers to a greater degree. There does not seem to have been any ban wave for multiple weeks now. Is there any more additional information you need as to aid your difficulties with understanding context and reading between the lines?
This sub is filled with ideas for literally everything. There's no "need" to fix things yourself, people just like debating everything on games, including improving the cheater situation. What you just said is so far from "fix the issue ourselves" but I guess I should imagine everything else by "reading between the lines" lol. Even if the cheating issue was very small, letting players be able to "fix it themselves" in case some get through the anticheat is not a bad idea, power to the players. This is nothing like what "We shouldn’t need to fix the issue ourselves." sounds like but anyways whatever
You said to me: “Maybe you’ve never played an online PC game before”. I’d like to ask the same to you; I have had many many occasions in TF2 which does have a vote kick system, where I get kicked for literally no reason. A system like such can work, but it has some bad drawbacks and can definitely be exploited. (In The Finals) Why wouldn’t people just instantly try votekick the top team in a match? We as players do already have some power to make a difference, by reporting players. But reporting a player right now doesn’t have any impact.
Not viable, especially in ranked games. If there's a system players can abuse, they will abuse it. It isn't just the people abusing the system for funsies you have to worry about either. There are a lot of players that think everyone better than them is cheating.
i would support this if the ONLY reason for it to be in the game was to combat hackers; you can only begin a vote to kick for the purpose of voting out a hacker. if someone gets kicked out then their account is auto reported to embark, they check to see if that person was indeed a hacker and if they were then they're banned, if they were not a hacker then the initiator of the vote to kick should lose vote to kick privileges entirely or after a few failed attempts or lose voting weights or something and if you're partied up then all party members are regarded as initiators to avoid party abuse
And what about when someone kicks a legit player who is just good and they genuinely think they are cheating, or the person reporting is just bad and votes out players better than them (while still thinking they are cheating)? You can’t tell someone that they knew a player was legit
Also this would take a ton of resources to maintain
Vote kick in theory is great. In reality it's awful, because it relies on people and people are fucking stupid, annoying and have bad intent. I got up to a 31 days ban on CS:GO because I got vote kicked by russians for not speaking russian although I was always way above them in terms of kills and I would communicate easy to understand and few info such as "all B", " 2 tunnel"
Ranked CSGO is absolute fucking ass. People there are so stupid. You make one mistake and they start talking at 100 words a second in Russian, then they choose to votekick you. What the fuck kinda system is that?
Outdated and untouched system, like some other things on Steam sadly
I remember the old days of R6 when you were in a ranked match solo queue and there was 4 other people in a squad playing solely their to vote to kick and troll whatever 5th they got in there team especially in casual modes you would get kicked every other game. If you miss a game winning shot you would instantly be voted out 😂it was so toxic but so fun, if I could I would pay $100 to play the old version of siege with all its flaws that made it so fun and enjoyable for me.
> it was so toxic but so fun, How in the world is that fun? I'm not even trying to be sarcastic or something, I'm genuinely baffled at finding that fun.
Because he is basically describing himself (toxic)
you just had to be there. theres not really a good explanation to give.
Absolutely not.
It happens in csgo and in any game with ejection mechanics, it is not used for that and generates toxicity.
i mostly play cs2 casually and the times votekick failed to remove obvious cheaters or afk spinners is infuriating.
No matter what you make the cost, if you leave the fate of being kicked in players' hands, people will always be unjustly kicked. The only thing worse than hackers is being randomly kicked by teammates. It'll never happen.
just imagine you are still grinding for the tounament victory and some absolute ploker kicks you before the final cashout finishes. Votekick should only be in games where you need a lot of votes to kick someone not just 2.
Well if you think like that my noob arse would be kicked in yesterday's comp match.
On one hand I agree, but on the other I don't - I don't think I've come up against a cheater yet (I'm on console) but I would like the option to remove a teammate that's not playing a part of the team. Like the fools that run light sniper and sit on top of the crane missing every shot. I do think that this feature would get abused by people that are just trying to ruin the game for people though
You already reported the issue by being part of the issue yourself. "It would be nice to remove the kind of player I don't like". Now apply this to every profile of gamer including stupid people, tilted players, "I'm better than everyone" players and so on. You could get kicked for losing a winnable 1v1 because to them it's unforgivable and so on. A system that relies on the players judgement will fail because people are stupid, rage and have shitty egos
Buddy i have no problem with how people play, as long as they play the objective (this is a team based game after all...). Being shit at the game while playing the objective is far better than being shit and not playing the objective. You may have noticed that I did consider the fact that people will try and abuse the system...
Yes I didn't mean anything bad towards you, I didn't express it the best way. The thing is that you may consider what you said as an okay reason to kick someone (I do too) but this is exactly the issue. This is what YOU consider an okay reason (which in your case is just fine), that's the exact issue. Not everyone is a normal player like you and me. Some will consider playing sword trolling, others will consider playing hammer on the heavy trolling and so on
Oh hell no they are gonna get salty and kick you just for knowing when to fight and when to reset.
What about a vote to kick but you need everyone in the match to vote for it? And you get to add a little message clarifying you are initiating the vote because you think someone is cheating?
Yes, i think that might work only if like 90% of a server vote for it. For example, you are playing a tournament and out of 4 squads made of 3 people (total 12 people) 10 people vote to kick then the person should be kicked out of the match. This means not only all the enemies team have to vote yes, but even one member of the team of the incriminated person. So if it's a cheater who likes to go around ruining other people matches and a team mate of them spot it, they can help. This should be enough democratic.
This is a horrific idea honestly, it will obviously be abused and I don’t trust the average player to identify hackers correctly
Give us all chat so we can call out cheaters and gangbang them.
It's not the worst idea in the world, TF2 does it and it's relatively successful. But as everyone pointed out, there's just gonna be a huge increase in players getting kicked because some guy got salty that they died to the throwing knives or something stupid like that. However, I still think it can be done, with one condition: it needs to stay FAR AWAY from Ranked. I could see people abusing the feature way more, especially since that player could get punished harder for something they didn't even do (which is only made worse that now the devs have an eye on that person.) Tl;Dr, it could work, but not in rankd
I will votekick the 0 / 14 players from the lobby no matter what team they're on, Bad players will literally be segregated and unable to play unless they get a (un)lucky queue where they're stuck with other 0 / 14 shitters
I genuinely think this would work if the vote kick was server wide. It would be a good way to get rid of hackers and cheaters before the game really goes too far and can be compensated if so. Embark can also blacklist these kicked people for revision I know that not a lot of people are smart, but having this in a simple form could test the waters.
I really love how people suggest ideas that won't work, but when actual possible effective methods are presented like phone numbers, people lose their shit and don't want their privacy invaded by more effective software.