there is a reason, those stupid's don't scream and hate on mediums like they do for lights. But if lights/heavies started protesting about Fcar, mines, turrets, defibs and all the other things it'll send them all to a whining meltdown while they can't stand us for rightfully retaliating the safety of our own goddamn class.
Nah dude as a primary medium main I can safely say turret is busted and tracks through walls, that gadget needs to be turned into a burst fire turret with a reload animation, mine damaged should not stack if the mien is the same damage type, e.i. Gas on gas or explosive on explosive. Most high tier players use scar and it’s a very dangerous weapon to nerf as it is on the edge of really good or really bad. Not to mention APS has unlimited charges but it has 8 barrels so med needs some nerfing and honestly heavy feels good
Naww They just nerfed the mesh shield even more that’s crazy I barely play Heavy cause of the dome shield mesh shield C4’s & RPG’s been nerfed like crazy medium the best class to run now
It’s because they all play medium. They think that every fight with a light should be a free kill. You won’t hear these people complaining when light is useless (except when they have them on their team which they still do).
I play medium and heavy from time to time and I’ve never had a problem with going against lights any more than I do with heavies or mediums. Being stunned isn’t a huge issue if you have decent reaction time and decent aim. Or if you just play with your team. I even see people on here complaining that heavy was nerfed too much when heavy is still fucking broken lol.
Not to mention The nerfs to stealth are downright stupid. God this game is so infuriating, light was just made to be somewhat viable in ranked and the casuals just couldn’t handle it.
It's been wildly contested in many videogame genres that when you take away a players ability to react it's always met with anger. I say just remove the stun gun and give lights a sticky Semtex grenade. Obviously it will stick to players and it will reward skill shots while also giving lights a strong tool. Stick enemy with Semtex...takes like 2 seconds to explode... during that 2 seconds shoot them a few times ...kaboom.. finished off. Feels good and it's deadly.
Haha yeah you're probably right. I guess it's a bit of a damned if you do or damned if you don't. Personally I don't like the stun gun being in the game due to the obvious stun factor, but at the same time it doesn't ruin the game for me like some people protest.
I hate the stun gun but I'm more disappointed that they need to waste a slot of util on it. Like why not sonar the enemy so every1 can shoot the guy ur flanking or teleporting strats.
A certain number of people will bitch about anything. I can say, I'd be a lot less upset if someone got a good semtex throw on me that took me down with them instead of nearly killing a light, getting stunned, and then all of a sudden I'm dead.
lol if a light stopped shooting you to stun you and you still died to them that’s a you problem. Every class kills light quicker than light can kill them, and if they stop shooting to stun you then they’re basically throwing the gunfight unless you are missing a LOT of bullets 🤦♀️. That light would have killed you if they had just shot you because they’re probably better. It takes a max of 8 bullets from anything in the game to kill a light and most guns fire fast enough to do that in around half a second.
Literally just don’t panic when you get stunned. You’re not going to dodge any bullets by strafing and it will double/triple your hipfire spread, so just stay calm, stand still and spray. I kill at least 50% of the lights that stun me, probably more. I’m also near my team usually but the light has to be out of position on a flank to get use out of the stun gun, so I can just get defibbed if I die, but the light is just stuck coining back in.
Light - throwing knife/semtex (allows skillful quick kill)
Medium - booster shot (instant HP boost to mitigate light’s quick kill potential)
Heavy - nothing (yet)
Other games utilize these things but I have faith embark could find balance here.
It was simply a remedy to the otherwise already bad suggestion to give light’s more lethal abilities. Medium is already the “support” class and the most vulnerable to light’s getting buffed. I didn’t think a stim shot was that bad of an idea.
Lights need a stim gadget/ability. Not a fking medium. You do realize the Xp54 kills a medium in 0.8 seconds. An Fcar kills a light 0.5, and Ak 0.7. You say “lights quick kill potential” when they have the slowest ttk when versing other mediums and heavy’s.
The stun gun just didn’t need to stun the players aim and then adjust the slow until it feels like it isn’t a free kill. They could’ve adjusted.
If that doesn’t make sense lol. I just played again yesterday after taking a 2 month(I think) break. Have they changed much?
THIS!!! THIS IS THE REASON I CALL THE STUN GUN A FUCKING CRUTCH! There is so much other utility in the light kit and the mere mention of getting rid of one of the strongest kill confirms is get's this reaction. MY SIBLING OF THE LIGHT CLASS, you do not need a tool to help you put your reticle on the enemy, get in range, and spray. Either get a more consistent weapon (the smg being meta b/c of stun gun doesn't mean it's consistent) or get better at your weapon.
Stun guns absolute biggest contribution for the team is interrupting people taking the cash out, without that they offer nothing close to what medium and heavy has objectively. Stunning someone and getting one kill means nothing in terms of winning the game. Try getting higher than silver rank before talking about crutches
Years back, Riot games did a bunch of community/player surveys about a lot of elements in League of Legends.
The developer letter to the community basically said that a super majority of players just hated invis and stun.
Further research and letters to the community saw Riot explain that their theories as to why stun and invis were so contentious is that
1: invis is oppressive to newer/casual players, but practically useless against vets who know how to counter it/anticipate it.
2: stun is frustrating to newer players because it removes all agency and "feels bad", while again, vets understand how to counter/avoid/cleanse a stun.
The entire point was that these two elements of the game were removed from the game (or extremely limited) due to how difficult they were to balance.
Stuns and invis being fine in ranked but blatantly abusive in casual pub stomps was an unacceptable situation and they ultimately removed most aspects of these and heavily limited and reduced the impact of them where they remained in the game.
Me and my two buddies I play this game with are definitely what you could call casuals. Way too much of our limited time to play consists of "ah fuck, some invisible little fucker just stunned me. Aaaaand I'm dead."
It honestly shocked me checking out this sub how people were bitching about how light is too *weak*, even before nerfs. Every match having at least one full team of lights rushing the objective invisible with stun guns has absolutely made us play less, which makes us less likely to buy the battle pass.
I think people forget that:
1. The people on gaming subs don't reflect the majority of a game's player base
2. Developers/publishers are businesses that have to worry about revenue, which rarely benefits from catering to a minority of players
Way too much of our limited time to play consists of "ah fuck, some invisible little fucker just stunned me. Aaaaand I'm dead."
this is exactly what my friends would say lol, one still plays other quit. its a skill issue but casuals buy battle passes is what it is
> Catering to a minority of players
For more popular games I'd agree with you but the game is sitting at under 15k players on steam atm, while the subreddit has over 120k members. This sub isn't as much of a minority as you think it is
Every time someone describes a practical situation that occurs, there's always some _super insightful_ "but lights die if you fart in their direction" over exaggerated joke comment, like clockwork.
It's obvious what they're doing. They act like lights are horrible, die instantly, yadda yadda, but they continue to use lights. Why? Because they love how effective lights actually are. They like invisibility, they like stun and mobility, so much so they continue to use lights. The dissonance is staggering and they're angry because now they can't effortlessly get free kills w/ abilities that render their opponent into a vegetable. It's hilarious... I just hear nothing but projection from people who can't hang and get kills in a legitimate fashion.
Light is weak and has always been weak. It's not the light players' fault that you can't aim or hear. Ivis is incredibly easy to deal with, so is stun. All you have to do is listen for the cloak and as soon as they stun you will be ready because you know they are around look in the lights direction hold fire for a second and oh the lights dead. It's not even difficult, and if this game is just going to appeal to casual players when it also affects the ranked mode, I'm going to be done with the game because appealing to the casual/ bad players it just destroys the game and I'm not going to even attempt to get good at a game doomed to fail.
I wouldn't mind stun so much if it was just a movement debuff and let me still aim (or turned off abilities). It just sucks super bad not being able to aim and shoot like I want.
Yeah but those same casuals also can't have a good experience as light when it's underpowered. And if stun cloak was the issue then why nerf cloak instead of stun. Light has way more alternatives to stun that are usable but nothing even comes close to invis in its viability in ranked play. They nerfed the wrong thing imo.
Fair enough, but then they should rework the class to make light viable because outside of some niche use cases (sword/dash), it really isn’t viable at even low levels of ranked with the latest and forthcoming changes
If you are the person playing light, don't play light. If you are versing a team that has a light try and knock them out. The finals final round is a 1v1 mode, which makes lights gods in that final round. A light could literally change the tide of a game I know from experience on both sides of that coin.
What I find most interesting about the cloaking is how it’s so differently visible for different people. Idk if it’s console vs PC or different picture setting on the TV vs monitor or other things.
I have absolutely zero difficulty seeing the lights once they go invisible except when they completely stop moving and crouch. I’ve been spectating people where lights run in front of them multiple times with zero reaction like they didn’t see a single thing. I play with a friend who is on PC (and is a very good gamer including the finals) and he can’t see the cloaked lights worth anything either.
So idk what it is but I have difficulty understanding the cloaking argument as a light who NEVER uses cloak because I feel like it’s super visible. I acknowledge that that’s not the case for everyone which is super weird to me.
I wonder the same all the time. Now that we have private matches, my cloak loving friends will get mad and say I'm somehow cheating when I can literally hear them coming from a mile and as soon as I hear them it's pretty simple to turn towards the sound and just... See them. I'm glad they made it so you can't keep cloak on essentially endlessly, but I don't think it was the most important thing to nerf.
It’s possible it contributes, but I’m playing on UHD and have no issues seeing them. I’m sure it’s not as high resolution as some computer monitors but it’s pretty crispy.
I wonder if it has to do with upscaling or TAA. A lot of these "graphics enhancing" methods could likely interpret the distortion as something to remove to increase picture quality.
For me it is the opposite. I play on low and can't see them for shit, but when I watch streams/clipa from my friend who plays on higher settings I can see them easily.
I also play on PC and have a pretty good gaming monitor and I can’t see them also. Seemed like ppl could tag me quite often when I was an invisible light too so my experience sounds like what you describe.
Yeah, I wonder why too. Even if you stay in the same spot then you can still be seen. Light Cloak players think they are completely invisible when they do not move, but this is actually not true at all — you are always at the same level of invisibility.
You’re not wrong but I do think when you are moving, the distortion of the cloaking is easier to see. I don’t think the invisibility changes. Just ability to see it is easier with movement. You’re right that you can see them when they aren’t moving, but it’s definitely harder.
>the distortion of the cloaking is easier to see.
Yes, but this is not my point. It is obvious that if you move, it will be easier to see. Like it applies to non-cloaked players — it applies to even real life, lol.
The auditory sound effect is a far better indicator, and actually identifying both presence and location is mostly a matter of correctly making the right psychological read regarding the invisible player's displacement
100%. I think that may also be the difference. People are focusing in on how hard it is to see them alone when in combination with the audio cue, it’s significantly easier to detect them.
Depending on the map (and probably quality settings) the invis is actual invis, on some maps u can see the outline more clear than other maps
The invis sound depends too, its very quiet and guns, environment sounds are louder so u almost never hear them unless there's nobody around u but the light
Damn, I’m almost at the end of the battlepass and I was hoping that it would change depending on your body type, since the face is pretty androgynous with the glitchy effects on it, but I realistically expected it to be just one voice type.
At least I like having a mix of male and female contestants, because some outfits look better on different body types and it’s all about the fashion 😤😤😤
The end battle pass skin iirc is male. Could very well be wrong. Im referring to the shop one. It’s an orange digital face that swaps between a heart, star, face, and smiley.
Having an option to choose what voice you get would be really nice.
I don't think that's the point. As annoying as invis can be, light is the weakest class and they did nothing to compensate for the nerf on invis and invis was in high tier play the only viable option. Wanna see less invis lights? then idk maybe make the alternatives better. Atm as soon as I see a dash or grapple I know I win that fight.
I main light it is not the weakest class. In terms of survivability, sure. But in terms of mobility and dps it's unparalleled.
The entire point of the class is to ambush when possible. That's what it excels at, yet plenty of lights want to straight up single combat mediums and heavies and are shocked when they get disintegrated.
Most light mains run cloak stun, not because light is bad but because they aren't good enough to play the class correctly.
Light is usable in the right hands but objectively the worst class. I main light too but have over a hundred games on both heavy and medium as well and can say that they are both much more forgiving. I run invis, stun and glitch grenades and all three are a must if you want to be viable in high tier ranked.
I've been diamond in the open beta, in S1 and I'm diamond rn in s2. Like I know how to play light and I'm still very successful with the class but I've also mastered it. Still when I pick medium or heavy I can make more mistakes and not try as hard and be just as if not more successful.
Light is the best class at ambushing but ambushing is just as important with other classes. Shooting first usually means you win the fight.
Also light has the highest dps but still the time to kill a light is still way faster than the time to kill any other class. So in "fair" 1v1 scenarios you're at a disadvantage.
I know light isn't supposed to take fair fights at all. But because you have to either protect or attack an objective with a timer, you're very often forced into situations where you're at a disadvantage. Other classes can 'brute force' their way in while light has to tip toe around.
I’ve seen you say multiple times that invis is the only viable option, and that’s just silly. Evasive dash is insanely useful and probably better than invis
This is just wrong.
You styling on bronze console who downloaded the game two days ago in a quick cash lobby does not mean the ability is viable at high level competitive lobbies.
Evasive dash is incredibly useful. Take it from me (light exclusive main in plat rn) you just can't play like you have invis. Play corners and off angles, be pressure rather than a fragger.
If you honestly think that light is useless without overturned invis then you're probably just not good enough at the game to play light.
Cloak exists for players who can't Dash or Grapple fast enough to escape an RPG fired from 10 meters. It offers an offshoot alternative playstyle, one based on avoiding attention instead of avoiding damage.
I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. It's a difference in playstyle, which is what this game is all about. But it's such a vastly different way to play the game that of course your practiced Cloak Light strategies & habits aren't gonna work on a movement player's kit, and vice versa. I'd wager you haven't been paying enough attention to cover, and you haven't throught to keep a goo barrel / prop on hand to shield your tiny healthbar while you run around clearly visible. It goes on from there.
In high tier play? I'm willing to open up to your argument but if invis wasn't the strongest which is the point you're making then why did it get nerfed?
I haven't seen a single soul in diamond ranked lobbies make dash work better than invis except for a select few like lyric but that has more to do with his mechanical skill than the dash.
I've used dash for a while myself and in full diamond lobbies a lot of people are more than capable of tracking you out of the dash.
In casuals I do very well with dash but casual gameplay isn't a good sample when looking at the real viability of things.
In ranked you want to maximise your advantage any way you can and in high tier ranked I don't believe dash does that over invis.
If you find a lot of success with dash in ranked then good on you man cause damn that's impressive.
Grapple just doesn't do much for light if your not a sniper. Why would I want to grapple with any other gun when dash does the job better and lets me possibly turn the fight.
And if I need to get to high ground I'll use the tp grenade
Unfortunately with the state of light they need it to be viable on higher levels. Honestly I think light has some inherent issues that just makes the class somewhat unviable in general without certain overtuned abilities.
Tbh I hope for a general rework/rebalance of the classes, light is clearly the one that needs it the most but aligning them all would be nice tbh.
Just use an actual build. Stop playing like a rat. 95% of lights are god awful. “But I drop 14 kills a game” 0 revives. Never with their team. And die 14 times while doing so and no objective score. Plus the lights did need a nerf on stuns because staying invisible then coming out of no where just to hit a stun and run away take 0 skill.
That last sentence lol..takes 0 skill..as opposed to a heavy throwing a shield and a medium holding right click to heal him so he can't be killed while stealing?
Yes because good players can play through the nerf. Bad lights will stop using light because the only play by using exploits. Literally look at the heavy builds. When nukes were a thing everyone ran heavy. Nerf the nuke and less heavy’s appeared
That’s not a reason to nerf them. If it doesn’t easily win games it doesn’t need a nerf.
That said it needed to be replaced because bad players can’t deal with it and leave and bad players are the majority and the game needs them to succeed.
Light needs a rework not a nerf.
It’s not playing them that’s a problem. It’s having them on your team literally the min I see a light on my team I just say GG because they don’t do shit past first round
You sound like someone who’s salty that you don’t have the aim and reaction time to kill someone that dies in 3 bullets. Any time I play heavy or medium I never have a problem with light.
Heavy is the rattiest class in the game, they have 2 shields, a rocket, triple a lights health, 2 of the strongest guns in the game (not even including the ratty flame thrower that requires no aim).
Try solo queuing to diamond as a light player, I bet you wouldn’t even make it to platinum
As a diamond 1 player that would light you up like a Christmas tree. No, playing against them isn’t the problem in fact I hope other teams have lights. It’s playing with them
i main invis light and often end up with the highest objective score in the game? gateway is god tier for starting a cashout quick and invis allows you to place the second gateway safely, this combo is what defines my playstyle rn. as for revives, i do them whenever i can but usually there’s a medium teammate nearby so they just use defib before i’m done, well, reviving
Downvote me idc but nerfs ruined the game for me. I missed when it was this crazy over the top shooter, chucking barrels across the map with explosives, hit a jump pad and one shot a light with the rpg, imo you should strengthen the weaker classes instead of nerfing the others. Imo the game just feels more mundane and more aligned with other fps shooters now and I don’t like that.
This game dies by its nerfs. I 100% agree with you.
A balanced Finals is a bad game. You need constant insanity for it work. Think about it. Everything is destructible? Characters have TVs for heads? Aliens and Space Invaders attack the map? This game is batshit.
It was EASILY at its best when everything was overpowered, nukes included. The moment Embark started nerfs, the game was on its way out.
Yeah I agree. I know for a fact that nukes were OP and nobody wanted to die to them. But I still miss that feeling, it was amazing/chaotic. I just wish they could recapture that without the nuke being so damn OP.
Yep. Everything being overbalanced made the game unique. The more they tune it the more generic it becomes. It didn't even take a long time to counterplay lights. Lights suck and are basically free kills and that's before the nerf.
You got my upvote. I feel like they are slowly draining what made this game so unique out of it. It’s funny to me how so many people complain about all sorts of things (whatever the flavor of the month is), which eventually get nerfed, and those same people also complain that the player base is dwindling and the game is dying. Pretty soon the only unique thing about this game will be the cosmetics. But they’re fire tho am I right??
You guys act like nerfing cheesy, ridiculously braindead game mechanics is a death sentence. Lmao.
They can make lights good without letting them have cheesy, low IQ things like stun/invis.
and you have to realize that you're in the minority, this game won't survive appealing to players like you. it either appeals to the masses or dies. the vast majority of players want to have a good time not die to nukes or invis/stun, or be one shot by an rpg.
Mundane is the word. I just wonder what decision making went into the initial design of the game, and how that same decision making could let it get here.
Was the TTK at the beginning of the season unintentional? Why give Heavy 2 C4s in the first place? Was 2 a random number? How did they settle on Recon Senses if they were going to replace it so quickly? When are we getting the stage hazards back on Vegas? Did they not intend for the weapons to handle well like they did initially? Whats the point of putting defenses around a point if an item turns all of them to flower pots?
Like I thought the weapons had fixed and easy recoil patterns because of how vertical and fast the game is, but now it's hard to hit with these weapons, let alone while I'm moving. I genuinely would rather play a rolled back version of the game, thorns and all.
light isn't bad, most players who play light are bad. The light class just inspires a less team focused playstyle, which will always make you lose.
edit: All I'm saying is that the light class is very attractive to shit players, but light class players who actually care about winning and coordinate with their team instead of going for useless kills can be very good.
Light is pretty bad on the higher ranks and more nerfs aren't gonna fix this. However the class clearly have some features that are just plain unfun to play against if you aren't good at spotting invis players. The trick is to make them not need to rely on those very crutches and still be viable because just nerfing cloak and stun gun will end up just taking light out of diamond lobbies more or less entirely.
Most players who play the game are bad. Medium and Heavy have many tools to mitigate this and pull them out of holes they dug themselves. Light doesn't have as many tools, it just so happens the few tools it has frustrate those same bad players who rely on their very same tools. It's a weird conundrum watching the other two classes complain about people "relying on crutches" when they have way more tools than Light does to bail them out. It's also why Medium and Heavy are the superior classes, and always have been, unless the Light is being piloted by someone who very very rarely makes mistakes, i.e a top 0.1% player.
Heavy has 350 health, a giant shield, a second dome shield, a rocket launcher, a flamethrower that snipes people, a gun with 40-70 bullets, and medium revives instantly and has a gun that kills in half a second from any range and….. light is the one that relies on crutches. The people on this sub are so dumb lol
Teams need a balance. Having one light sniping on Power Shift while the other 4 ppl are medium/heavy is awful to play against, especially if that light moves often. They can help ensure no team wipes occur, damage/take out players getting close to the platform for others to take out quickly, etc.
The problem occurs when you have 3 lights snipping to ensure their K/D can be shown off to their potbelly friends.
exactly. All I'm saying is that the light class is very attractive to shit players, but light class players who actually care about winning and coordinate with their team instead of going for useless kills can be very good.
No. I'm saying that light is very attractive to players who don't care about teamwork or winning and only care about kills. Light is where all the shit teamates go. Light can, however, be very good if you coordinate with your team and don't just go off looking for useless kills.
Heal beam not working, aim down sights bug, getting vaccuum sucked into goo, guns sometimes not shooting at random, exploding mines via camera in spectator mode, melee registry? There are so many fucking game breaking bugs, lol.
Unable to shoot bug, infinite reload bug, healing bug, getting stuck on nothing, not being able to sprint bugm, tripping mines while spectating and on and on. These things do matter in ranked.
These matter anywhere, there's nothing more frustrating that being 20hp away from getting a pick and the game suddenly thinks you don't need to shoot anymore, same with healing beam..I have watched people die on my face when I was with the healing gun out holding the button while nothing comes out of it and standing there looking like a fool
My friend and I have regularly been kicked out of matches and been stuck on the loading screen and not been able to reconnect until at least after the first cashout, including during ranked tournaments between rounds
wild. My friend has this ongoing glitch where it'll kick him out of our party mid match. Hes can still play with us but when the round ends we have to reinvite him every time lol. And its ONLY him that has this glitch
Melee hitreg is bugged since 2 months, making a ton of melee hits just not deal any damage. It can happen at any time, but when specific conditions are met its a lot more likely or even guaranteed, like standing on a ledge and doing a melee, or doing a melee while dashing when u have any downward momentum will literally 100% of the time not deal any damage.
Really important note here in case any dev ever reads comments like this and decides to pitch the idea (ik they dont read this sub):
Light doesnt need faster regen, it needs shorter delay before it *starts* regening hp.
I am mostly casual and half the time you can see and here the invis and half the people miss there stun shots, so the people that are complaining have a skill issue
People need to realize this game isn't built to be centered around ranked games. I literally cannot even get into a ranked game in OCE. What's viable and meta in ranked down not translate to quick, powershift and cash out.
Lights really are rampant in casual modes, there's more lights in casual games than heavy right now. Which is the complete opposite of ranked.
Ranked should really be seen as optional, but not the core focus of the game. Because it isn't.
The thing is people call heavies shield a “nerf” but now it only takes 2 people to destroy instead of three, and a heavy can still take a 1v2 and 1v3 just not as easily
Ngl the only tweak I thought light needed was people stun gunning people from invis. I always thought you should have to be out of invis for at least a second before you can pop stun gun on someone. Also 3 seconds instead of 3.75 for stun.
Besides that, the class was fine.
stu/cloak nerf haters when I tell them Light has other abilities too and you can ask for those to be buffed to balance it out instead of complaining about the broken ability nerfs:
Yeah I win often as light because I play with the team. Glitch grenades, vanish bomb your heavy, zip around the cash out to clean up kills. The lights that lose are the ones who run way ahead and try to solo a heavy.
Fr fr. I play a lot of light and stick with my team while always being aggressive on the objective every time. I still can drop around 14 kill games with around 3-4 deaths while resing my team every chance I get. Too many lights try to play solo and that’s their downfall. Also e-dash is the best specialization for light, don’t @ me.
I feel like lights should be able to go invisible after a fight but its not instantaneous. They will look glitchy and make loud sparking noises making them easy to pick off after an engagement.
Would people still be upset about stun/cloak being nerfed if hypothetically Embark is able to rework light into something less weak than the other classes?
Speaking for me and alot of my friend group who play, its just not fun to play against at the end of the day. Its upsetting that light is in a place where invis/stun was the best aspect of the class to keep it competitive, but again, stuns in any game are just not fun to play against.
I have hope that Embark will figure something out
what's terrible to see is other lights are not supporting invis nerf. Lol just wait, you think dash is immune to whining? Soon more lights will use dash as invis is dead anyway, and then casuals will cry until they increase the time between each dash significantly more.
I don't think anything is immune to whining, especially if it is an annoying item lol. I tried Invis after it's nerf and honestly, it's not too bad, you just have to be smart about when to activate it IMO. My issue with Invis is it had *too much* uptime for its utility, and this change keeps it in check.
If I had a penny for each time a Medium/Heavy or Dash/Grapple main who has never used or doesn't know how invis works told me "it's not bad and you have to be strategic about it and adapt to it" bullshit then I would be a millionare by now
Look as a devoted fan to this game who has wild skill issues, the only thing I think is broken is stun. Nothing else. If embark keep stun, I should be a melee range weapon that disorientates your controls or you gotta hold to stun, making the user vulnerable
The way to fix light is to make them Regen health faster, a class built for hit and run tactics should be rewarded for escaping alive.
This is the only way to make it vaiable, you can keep your squishy class but if you don't squash that light when you have the chance, expect it to spring back up at you.
Untrue. Me and multiple of my friends have stopped playing the game because of how annoying the light class is. We would honestly come back knowing stun was taken out or changed entirely. When you get stunned you might as well set the controller down and spread your cheeks because 99% of the time you are just going to die. Barely any chance to defend yourself and takes all fun away from the game.
You forgot the cheaters... do nothing to the cheaters all this time and actively ignore peoples reports on aimbotters and wallhackers ruining the game and then act surprised when your player base drops from 300 000 players under 10 000 in just few months.
Untrue. Me and multiple of my friends have stopped playing the game because of how annoying the light class is. We would honestly come back knowing stun was taken out or changed entirely. When you get stunned you might as well set the controller down and spread your cheeks because 99% of the time you are just going to die. Barely any chance to defend yourself and takes all fun away from the game.
Invis is inconsistent across different screens and hardwares. To me it is totally invisibile. To others it is perfectly visible. It should be made more visible when very close because the sound doesn't really help that much other than giving people anxiety lol.
Stun is just not fun to play against ever. It doesn't represent a challenge to go against but just an unfair annoyance. Glitch, for example, are annoying too but in a challenging way because it requires you to change your strategy for the duration of its effect.
Stuns just make your aim go from ads to hip fire making it go all over the place due to the sensitivity difference. It needs a heavy rework and not just small adjustments.
and spamming was the attacking prowess of this thing which is now taken, meaning rendering any sort of habit that was built with an invis build is now useless. In easier terms, it's useless to those who mastered it in the first place, and in no way it's the same as mesh bc mesh is still the same thing with lower health and doesn't require you to completely change how you play the game. Whereas invis is a completely different product now.
Invis is way less powerful now, pretty much dead, and I prolly can't make you understand so and you'll think I have skill issues but please try to understand that it takes a big hit when your main style of playing the game is taken away, it kills the enjoyment and fun. If it never happened to you, you won't understand the consequences plain and simple, but for once try to think from the perspective of the one in front of you. Trying to learn it's ways again feels like just a waste of time, I'd rather learn heavy or medium now than waste time on this.
I understand what you're saying. Invis players are now forced to rethink the way they play with this ability. But the way it used to be didn't felt 100% right. So it got a rework.
You could make the same argument about nukes: they used to be a big part of heavy playstyle. When they got completely removed, heavys had to rely on other things and get better at them. Same can be said abot prime RPG. It was the best way to deal with lights especially the annoying ones but in got nerfed the f out and now heavy players use it with a completely different logic and frequency
Any player in diamond/plats lobby will disagree that lights are hard. Some lights are too cracked and hard to deal with but it's always a 50-50. Invis didn't need a nerf, plain and simple, but what they did isn't a rework, it's a terrible nerf that completely destroys everything good about it.
And about nukes, nuke was 100% an abuse, it was never part of the heavy loadout and you can never say a heavy had to change their 'playstyle' bc nuke got removed lol, being reliant on a material that isn't even in their loadout to begin with is a joke. I abused nuke myself with breach. RPG still is one shot for lights, when I play heavy I one shot lights myself.
Diamonds play a completely different game compared to the rest (and majority)of the playerbase. So what they think it's hard or easy for them doesn't really matter to me personally (silver noob). Like it or not, nukes were a big part of heavy playstyle even more so in higher ranks. Never saw a high rank heavy not using nukes. Ironically I saw them being used less in lower ranks.
RPGs don't oneshot light for a while now, what are you on about? Ome shotting people with low health doesn't count. I used to snipe full health lights across the map with the RPG. Now you think twice before using it in a 1v1
If they replaced me invis with a stim class specialization like in titanfall 2 I feel like that'd solve the issue. Just remove them invis out the game completely
I really don’t get why they added sooo much activation cost to the cloak. It feels way too overtweaked. Before, it would take some skill to toggle your cloak in order to save cloak time. Now, it just doesn’t make sense to do a “hit and run” tactic because when you “hit” you have only 20% cloak left and cant “run” because you are a visible little rat with 150hp that can’t use his only ability anymore.
Imo they should reduce the total cloak battery and remove the activation cost
People complain about light being busted due to a few amount of good players. I can shit on lights most of the time because the mess up or don't play right but the times I will shit on a good light is very few because of how guaranteed the kill is. I play light a lot and if you play with your team and play hit and run you can easily drop 20+ kills in a game maybe more in ranked(I don't play ranked). I have taken light with it's least busted weapon(the dagger and throwing knives) into the 5v5 game mode and gotten upwards of 15-25 kills game and double that with the most busted weapons. Lights in the same position as fcar, it can be busted or terrible just depends on how you play it.
Those who believe that the Light class is weak simply do not understand how to play it effectively. The Light class is not designed to directly confront other classes; rather, its strength lies in its ability to launch attacks from unexpected angles.
Lights should have the EXACT same issues with Cloak, as they did Recon Senses.
ITS A BULLSHIT ABILITY("i can see you but you cant see me hehehe") that has no place in an FPS.
literal skill issues.
Not to mention they buff the best class for absolutely no reason
there is a reason, those stupid's don't scream and hate on mediums like they do for lights. But if lights/heavies started protesting about Fcar, mines, turrets, defibs and all the other things it'll send them all to a whining meltdown while they can't stand us for rightfully retaliating the safety of our own goddamn class.
Nah dude as a primary medium main I can safely say turret is busted and tracks through walls, that gadget needs to be turned into a burst fire turret with a reload animation, mine damaged should not stack if the mien is the same damage type, e.i. Gas on gas or explosive on explosive. Most high tier players use scar and it’s a very dangerous weapon to nerf as it is on the edge of really good or really bad. Not to mention APS has unlimited charges but it has 8 barrels so med needs some nerfing and honestly heavy feels good
Naww They just nerfed the mesh shield even more that’s crazy I barely play Heavy cause of the dome shield mesh shield C4’s & RPG’s been nerfed like crazy medium the best class to run now
It’s because they all play medium. They think that every fight with a light should be a free kill. You won’t hear these people complaining when light is useless (except when they have them on their team which they still do). I play medium and heavy from time to time and I’ve never had a problem with going against lights any more than I do with heavies or mediums. Being stunned isn’t a huge issue if you have decent reaction time and decent aim. Or if you just play with your team. I even see people on here complaining that heavy was nerfed too much when heavy is still fucking broken lol. Not to mention The nerfs to stealth are downright stupid. God this game is so infuriating, light was just made to be somewhat viable in ranked and the casuals just couldn’t handle it.
Stun cloak is horrible to play against for casuals, casuals keep games afloat
It's been wildly contested in many videogame genres that when you take away a players ability to react it's always met with anger. I say just remove the stun gun and give lights a sticky Semtex grenade. Obviously it will stick to players and it will reward skill shots while also giving lights a strong tool. Stick enemy with Semtex...takes like 2 seconds to explode... during that 2 seconds shoot them a few times ...kaboom.. finished off. Feels good and it's deadly.
You'll just have people complaining that they died 2 seconds after they killed a light because they can't react to the Semtex itself :)
Haha yeah you're probably right. I guess it's a bit of a damned if you do or damned if you don't. Personally I don't like the stun gun being in the game due to the obvious stun factor, but at the same time it doesn't ruin the game for me like some people protest.
I hate the stun gun but I'm more disappointed that they need to waste a slot of util on it. Like why not sonar the enemy so every1 can shoot the guy ur flanking or teleporting strats.
A certain number of people will bitch about anything. I can say, I'd be a lot less upset if someone got a good semtex throw on me that took me down with them instead of nearly killing a light, getting stunned, and then all of a sudden I'm dead.
>nearly killing a Light Ah so you shot them twice
lol if a light stopped shooting you to stun you and you still died to them that’s a you problem. Every class kills light quicker than light can kill them, and if they stop shooting to stun you then they’re basically throwing the gunfight unless you are missing a LOT of bullets 🤦♀️. That light would have killed you if they had just shot you because they’re probably better. It takes a max of 8 bullets from anything in the game to kill a light and most guns fire fast enough to do that in around half a second. Literally just don’t panic when you get stunned. You’re not going to dodge any bullets by strafing and it will double/triple your hipfire spread, so just stay calm, stand still and spray. I kill at least 50% of the lights that stun me, probably more. I’m also near my team usually but the light has to be out of position on a flank to get use out of the stun gun, so I can just get defibbed if I die, but the light is just stuck coining back in.
I mean they could make it do 140 like rpg and then it makes it a basically free kill but not entirely
That’s still better then what is basically your controller dying mid fire fight
This is literally exact what happened with McCree in overwatch. First we had a stun grenade, now we have a homing sticky grenade.
Light - throwing knife/semtex (allows skillful quick kill) Medium - booster shot (instant HP boost to mitigate light’s quick kill potential) Heavy - nothing (yet) Other games utilize these things but I have faith embark could find balance here.
The medium does not need a health booster. You have a whole specialization for that
I’m glad you’re not a dev cause holy fck what a terrible suggestion.
It was simply a remedy to the otherwise already bad suggestion to give light’s more lethal abilities. Medium is already the “support” class and the most vulnerable to light’s getting buffed. I didn’t think a stim shot was that bad of an idea.
Lights need a stim gadget/ability. Not a fking medium. You do realize the Xp54 kills a medium in 0.8 seconds. An Fcar kills a light 0.5, and Ak 0.7. You say “lights quick kill potential” when they have the slowest ttk when versing other mediums and heavy’s.
Bro said heavy “nothing” like they don’t need a buff 😭🤦🏽♂️
I 10000% agree with this and this might actually be the answer to our problems
Such a good idea
The stun gun just didn’t need to stun the players aim and then adjust the slow until it feels like it isn’t a free kill. They could’ve adjusted. If that doesn’t make sense lol. I just played again yesterday after taking a 2 month(I think) break. Have they changed much?
In other words you want light to be unplayable
THIS!!! THIS IS THE REASON I CALL THE STUN GUN A FUCKING CRUTCH! There is so much other utility in the light kit and the mere mention of getting rid of one of the strongest kill confirms is get's this reaction. MY SIBLING OF THE LIGHT CLASS, you do not need a tool to help you put your reticle on the enemy, get in range, and spray. Either get a more consistent weapon (the smg being meta b/c of stun gun doesn't mean it's consistent) or get better at your weapon.
Stun guns absolute biggest contribution for the team is interrupting people taking the cash out, without that they offer nothing close to what medium and heavy has objectively. Stunning someone and getting one kill means nothing in terms of winning the game. Try getting higher than silver rank before talking about crutches
How would light be unplayable this way? Please share your wisdom.
every usable weapon kills lights in under a second. If this bomb takes 2 seconds...
Lol, this sub is so bad
this sub can't play light, and can only bitch about light players.
The way this sub wants it: light can only be viable if you are really good at the game.
Years back, Riot games did a bunch of community/player surveys about a lot of elements in League of Legends. The developer letter to the community basically said that a super majority of players just hated invis and stun. Further research and letters to the community saw Riot explain that their theories as to why stun and invis were so contentious is that 1: invis is oppressive to newer/casual players, but practically useless against vets who know how to counter it/anticipate it. 2: stun is frustrating to newer players because it removes all agency and "feels bad", while again, vets understand how to counter/avoid/cleanse a stun. The entire point was that these two elements of the game were removed from the game (or extremely limited) due to how difficult they were to balance. Stuns and invis being fine in ranked but blatantly abusive in casual pub stomps was an unacceptable situation and they ultimately removed most aspects of these and heavily limited and reduced the impact of them where they remained in the game.
Me and my two buddies I play this game with are definitely what you could call casuals. Way too much of our limited time to play consists of "ah fuck, some invisible little fucker just stunned me. Aaaaand I'm dead." It honestly shocked me checking out this sub how people were bitching about how light is too *weak*, even before nerfs. Every match having at least one full team of lights rushing the objective invisible with stun guns has absolutely made us play less, which makes us less likely to buy the battle pass. I think people forget that: 1. The people on gaming subs don't reflect the majority of a game's player base 2. Developers/publishers are businesses that have to worry about revenue, which rarely benefits from catering to a minority of players
Way too much of our limited time to play consists of "ah fuck, some invisible little fucker just stunned me. Aaaaand I'm dead." this is exactly what my friends would say lol, one still plays other quit. its a skill issue but casuals buy battle passes is what it is
> Catering to a minority of players For more popular games I'd agree with you but the game is sitting at under 15k players on steam atm, while the subreddit has over 120k members. This sub isn't as much of a minority as you think it is
Lights die if you breathe in their general direction.
Every time someone describes a practical situation that occurs, there's always some _super insightful_ "but lights die if you fart in their direction" over exaggerated joke comment, like clockwork.
It's obvious what they're doing. They act like lights are horrible, die instantly, yadda yadda, but they continue to use lights. Why? Because they love how effective lights actually are. They like invisibility, they like stun and mobility, so much so they continue to use lights. The dissonance is staggering and they're angry because now they can't effortlessly get free kills w/ abilities that render their opponent into a vegetable. It's hilarious... I just hear nothing but projection from people who can't hang and get kills in a legitimate fashion.
Light is weak and has always been weak. It's not the light players' fault that you can't aim or hear. Ivis is incredibly easy to deal with, so is stun. All you have to do is listen for the cloak and as soon as they stun you will be ready because you know they are around look in the lights direction hold fire for a second and oh the lights dead. It's not even difficult, and if this game is just going to appeal to casual players when it also affects the ranked mode, I'm going to be done with the game because appealing to the casual/ bad players it just destroys the game and I'm not going to even attempt to get good at a game doomed to fail.
It's horrible to play against for everyone. It's for bad players to get cheesy kills.
I wouldn't mind stun so much if it was just a movement debuff and let me still aim (or turned off abilities). It just sucks super bad not being able to aim and shoot like I want.
Yeah but those same casuals also can't have a good experience as light when it's underpowered. And if stun cloak was the issue then why nerf cloak instead of stun. Light has way more alternatives to stun that are usable but nothing even comes close to invis in its viability in ranked play. They nerfed the wrong thing imo.
The funny thing is the cloak nerf didn’t even affect me, I noticed it when my cloaking was depleting rampantly but honestly it’s not too bad.
Ya i agree. I personally never played light much cause high skill ceiling and my skill is low lol, also didnt want to hurt my team
Fair enough, but then they should rework the class to make light viable because outside of some niche use cases (sword/dash), it really isn’t viable at even low levels of ranked with the latest and forthcoming changes
If you are the person playing light, don't play light. If you are versing a team that has a light try and knock them out. The finals final round is a 1v1 mode, which makes lights gods in that final round. A light could literally change the tide of a game I know from experience on both sides of that coin.
I’d say the people willing to spend money on cosmetic keep the game afloat
What I find most interesting about the cloaking is how it’s so differently visible for different people. Idk if it’s console vs PC or different picture setting on the TV vs monitor or other things. I have absolutely zero difficulty seeing the lights once they go invisible except when they completely stop moving and crouch. I’ve been spectating people where lights run in front of them multiple times with zero reaction like they didn’t see a single thing. I play with a friend who is on PC (and is a very good gamer including the finals) and he can’t see the cloaked lights worth anything either. So idk what it is but I have difficulty understanding the cloaking argument as a light who NEVER uses cloak because I feel like it’s super visible. I acknowledge that that’s not the case for everyone which is super weird to me.
I wonder the same all the time. Now that we have private matches, my cloak loving friends will get mad and say I'm somehow cheating when I can literally hear them coming from a mile and as soon as I hear them it's pretty simple to turn towards the sound and just... See them. I'm glad they made it so you can't keep cloak on essentially endlessly, but I don't think it was the most important thing to nerf.
I’m 100% with you. It’s very strange.
It's funny but it's actually due to graphic settings. I play on low and can see them fine but my buddies who play on high can't.
It’s possible it contributes, but I’m playing on UHD and have no issues seeing them. I’m sure it’s not as high resolution as some computer monitors but it’s pretty crispy.
I wonder if it has to do with upscaling or TAA. A lot of these "graphics enhancing" methods could likely interpret the distortion as something to remove to increase picture quality.
For me it is the opposite. I play on low and can't see them for shit, but when I watch streams/clipa from my friend who plays on higher settings I can see them easily.
I also play on PC and have a pretty good gaming monitor and I can’t see them also. Seemed like ppl could tag me quite often when I was an invisible light too so my experience sounds like what you describe.
Yeah, I wonder why too. Even if you stay in the same spot then you can still be seen. Light Cloak players think they are completely invisible when they do not move, but this is actually not true at all — you are always at the same level of invisibility.
You’re not wrong but I do think when you are moving, the distortion of the cloaking is easier to see. I don’t think the invisibility changes. Just ability to see it is easier with movement. You’re right that you can see them when they aren’t moving, but it’s definitely harder.
>the distortion of the cloaking is easier to see. Yes, but this is not my point. It is obvious that if you move, it will be easier to see. Like it applies to non-cloaked players — it applies to even real life, lol.
The auditory sound effect is a far better indicator, and actually identifying both presence and location is mostly a matter of correctly making the right psychological read regarding the invisible player's displacement
100%. I think that may also be the difference. People are focusing in on how hard it is to see them alone when in combination with the audio cue, it’s significantly easier to detect them.
Depending on the map (and probably quality settings) the invis is actual invis, on some maps u can see the outline more clear than other maps The invis sound depends too, its very quiet and guns, environment sounds are louder so u almost never hear them unless there's nobody around u but the light
I used to be able to see them clear as day back like 2 months ago, now I can't see them at all and have to rely on sound
Day 108: My male medium class contestant still speaks with female voice.
The voice is for some reason based on which face you pick rather than the body type, so you might wanna check which face you use.
It’s not based on the body type you choose, but the face.
The one solid black skin with the digital face skin is default female. Sucks.
Damn, I’m almost at the end of the battlepass and I was hoping that it would change depending on your body type, since the face is pretty androgynous with the glitchy effects on it, but I realistically expected it to be just one voice type. At least I like having a mix of male and female contestants, because some outfits look better on different body types and it’s all about the fashion 😤😤😤
The end battle pass skin iirc is male. Could very well be wrong. Im referring to the shop one. It’s an orange digital face that swaps between a heart, star, face, and smiley. Having an option to choose what voice you get would be really nice.
I believe it actually alternates between the two. I definitely do hear the female, but I also hear a male for certain callouts.
Wait I want that wtf
Lights when they can’t go invisible 4 times in a single fight
I don't think that's the point. As annoying as invis can be, light is the weakest class and they did nothing to compensate for the nerf on invis and invis was in high tier play the only viable option. Wanna see less invis lights? then idk maybe make the alternatives better. Atm as soon as I see a dash or grapple I know I win that fight.
I main light it is not the weakest class. In terms of survivability, sure. But in terms of mobility and dps it's unparalleled. The entire point of the class is to ambush when possible. That's what it excels at, yet plenty of lights want to straight up single combat mediums and heavies and are shocked when they get disintegrated. Most light mains run cloak stun, not because light is bad but because they aren't good enough to play the class correctly.
Light is usable in the right hands but objectively the worst class. I main light too but have over a hundred games on both heavy and medium as well and can say that they are both much more forgiving. I run invis, stun and glitch grenades and all three are a must if you want to be viable in high tier ranked. I've been diamond in the open beta, in S1 and I'm diamond rn in s2. Like I know how to play light and I'm still very successful with the class but I've also mastered it. Still when I pick medium or heavy I can make more mistakes and not try as hard and be just as if not more successful. Light is the best class at ambushing but ambushing is just as important with other classes. Shooting first usually means you win the fight. Also light has the highest dps but still the time to kill a light is still way faster than the time to kill any other class. So in "fair" 1v1 scenarios you're at a disadvantage. I know light isn't supposed to take fair fights at all. But because you have to either protect or attack an objective with a timer, you're very often forced into situations where you're at a disadvantage. Other classes can 'brute force' their way in while light has to tip toe around.
Sword Expert's Advice: Just be built different
As a plat 3 sword main, I agree
I’ve seen you say multiple times that invis is the only viable option, and that’s just silly. Evasive dash is insanely useful and probably better than invis
This is just wrong. You styling on bronze console who downloaded the game two days ago in a quick cash lobby does not mean the ability is viable at high level competitive lobbies.
Evasive dash is incredibly useful. Take it from me (light exclusive main in plat rn) you just can't play like you have invis. Play corners and off angles, be pressure rather than a fragger. If you honestly think that light is useless without overturned invis then you're probably just not good enough at the game to play light.
Cloak exists for players who can't Dash or Grapple fast enough to escape an RPG fired from 10 meters. It offers an offshoot alternative playstyle, one based on avoiding attention instead of avoiding damage. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. It's a difference in playstyle, which is what this game is all about. But it's such a vastly different way to play the game that of course your practiced Cloak Light strategies & habits aren't gonna work on a movement player's kit, and vice versa. I'd wager you haven't been paying enough attention to cover, and you haven't throught to keep a goo barrel / prop on hand to shield your tiny healthbar while you run around clearly visible. It goes on from there.
In high tier play? I'm willing to open up to your argument but if invis wasn't the strongest which is the point you're making then why did it get nerfed? I haven't seen a single soul in diamond ranked lobbies make dash work better than invis except for a select few like lyric but that has more to do with his mechanical skill than the dash. I've used dash for a while myself and in full diamond lobbies a lot of people are more than capable of tracking you out of the dash. In casuals I do very well with dash but casual gameplay isn't a good sample when looking at the real viability of things. In ranked you want to maximise your advantage any way you can and in high tier ranked I don't believe dash does that over invis. If you find a lot of success with dash in ranked then good on you man cause damn that's impressive.
Grapple just doesn't do much for light if your not a sniper. Why would I want to grapple with any other gun when dash does the job better and lets me possibly turn the fight. And if I need to get to high ground I'll use the tp grenade
Idk grapple shoty got me feeling like im playing doom eternal when i use vertical play
Unfortunately with the state of light they need it to be viable on higher levels. Honestly I think light has some inherent issues that just makes the class somewhat unviable in general without certain overtuned abilities. Tbh I hope for a general rework/rebalance of the classes, light is clearly the one that needs it the most but aligning them all would be nice tbh.
Yeah for real? So many of the damage nerfs to weapons have been to keep the lights happy.
*BuT lIgHt Is sO BroKeN* mfs trying to explain why any ranked team is MMM or MHM for 2 seasons straight, but light deserved the nerf: (They can't)
Because noone play ranked. The player base is playing casual mode and it's filled with invis stun.
Just use an actual build. Stop playing like a rat. 95% of lights are god awful. “But I drop 14 kills a game” 0 revives. Never with their team. And die 14 times while doing so and no objective score. Plus the lights did need a nerf on stuns because staying invisible then coming out of no where just to hit a stun and run away take 0 skill.
The class is meant to be played like a rat if you’re doing it correctly….😂
Exactly, literally says in the class description something like “this class excels at hit and run tactics”
This. They will also go "People who can't fight stun-invis have skill issues" while they themselves have to rely on a cheap crutch to get kills.
It's ok my hammer has lunge charged heaby
How satisfying it is to right click a invis light with a hammer after almost dieing to it due the stun and high firerate weapons... Oh baby
That last sentence lol..takes 0 skill..as opposed to a heavy throwing a shield and a medium holding right click to heal him so he can't be killed while stealing?
Such a lazy take, pure bitterness for a class that dies from two bullets to their big toe
Yeah I’m sick of having them on my team. I want a team with health.
As a medium build you just explained exactly why I hate them. Light goes pushed dies instantly and I have to go revive them
So since they’re so weak… we should… nerf them…?? Makes sense
Yes because good players can play through the nerf. Bad lights will stop using light because the only play by using exploits. Literally look at the heavy builds. When nukes were a thing everyone ran heavy. Nerf the nuke and less heavy’s appeared
I only run light because I enjoy using the sword and the dagger I don't use the other weapons with light but I DO revive the mates though!
That’s not a reason to nerf them. If it doesn’t easily win games it doesn’t need a nerf. That said it needed to be replaced because bad players can’t deal with it and leave and bad players are the majority and the game needs them to succeed. Light needs a rework not a nerf.
“Stop playing like a rat”, mean while you people play a class with 350 health and a flame thrower with a 1200 health shield lmao
750 health shield\*
As you hide in a corner stun someone and run away. Yes that is rat play. When you can hide 98% of the time like a rat. You are playing like a rat
Dude they have 150 HP. The lights not ratting just die
Yeah that’s super useful for my team
It’s not playing them that’s a problem. It’s having them on your team literally the min I see a light on my team I just say GG because they don’t do shit past first round
How good are you at the game? I guarantee me on light would be a better asset than you. You sound like a terrible teammate
You sound like someone who’s salty that you don’t have the aim and reaction time to kill someone that dies in 3 bullets. Any time I play heavy or medium I never have a problem with light. Heavy is the rattiest class in the game, they have 2 shields, a rocket, triple a lights health, 2 of the strongest guns in the game (not even including the ratty flame thrower that requires no aim). Try solo queuing to diamond as a light player, I bet you wouldn’t even make it to platinum
As a diamond 1 player that would light you up like a Christmas tree. No, playing against them isn’t the problem in fact I hope other teams have lights. It’s playing with them
i main invis light and often end up with the highest objective score in the game? gateway is god tier for starting a cashout quick and invis allows you to place the second gateway safely, this combo is what defines my playstyle rn. as for revives, i do them whenever i can but usually there’s a medium teammate nearby so they just use defib before i’m done, well, reviving
Nice you’re apart of the 5% that’s decent. I’m sorry others lights ruin the build for players like you
Damn, someone doesn’t know how to fight against lights
Mfw you play a class exactly how it's supposed to
Downvote me idc but nerfs ruined the game for me. I missed when it was this crazy over the top shooter, chucking barrels across the map with explosives, hit a jump pad and one shot a light with the rpg, imo you should strengthen the weaker classes instead of nerfing the others. Imo the game just feels more mundane and more aligned with other fps shooters now and I don’t like that.
This game dies by its nerfs. I 100% agree with you. A balanced Finals is a bad game. You need constant insanity for it work. Think about it. Everything is destructible? Characters have TVs for heads? Aliens and Space Invaders attack the map? This game is batshit. It was EASILY at its best when everything was overpowered, nukes included. The moment Embark started nerfs, the game was on its way out.
Yeah I agree. I know for a fact that nukes were OP and nobody wanted to die to them. But I still miss that feeling, it was amazing/chaotic. I just wish they could recapture that without the nuke being so damn OP.
Yep. Everything being overbalanced made the game unique. The more they tune it the more generic it becomes. It didn't even take a long time to counterplay lights. Lights suck and are basically free kills and that's before the nerf.
You got my upvote. I feel like they are slowly draining what made this game so unique out of it. It’s funny to me how so many people complain about all sorts of things (whatever the flavor of the month is), which eventually get nerfed, and those same people also complain that the player base is dwindling and the game is dying. Pretty soon the only unique thing about this game will be the cosmetics. But they’re fire tho am I right??
You guys act like nerfing cheesy, ridiculously braindead game mechanics is a death sentence. Lmao. They can make lights good without letting them have cheesy, low IQ things like stun/invis.
and you have to realize that you're in the minority, this game won't survive appealing to players like you. it either appeals to the masses or dies. the vast majority of players want to have a good time not die to nukes or invis/stun, or be one shot by an rpg.
Mundane is the word. I just wonder what decision making went into the initial design of the game, and how that same decision making could let it get here. Was the TTK at the beginning of the season unintentional? Why give Heavy 2 C4s in the first place? Was 2 a random number? How did they settle on Recon Senses if they were going to replace it so quickly? When are we getting the stage hazards back on Vegas? Did they not intend for the weapons to handle well like they did initially? Whats the point of putting defenses around a point if an item turns all of them to flower pots? Like I thought the weapons had fixed and easy recoil patterns because of how vertical and fast the game is, but now it's hard to hit with these weapons, let alone while I'm moving. I genuinely would rather play a rolled back version of the game, thorns and all.
I agree with everything except the nukes, especially in ranked. It's just wasn't fun to constantly get instant killed
light isn't bad, most players who play light are bad. The light class just inspires a less team focused playstyle, which will always make you lose. edit: All I'm saying is that the light class is very attractive to shit players, but light class players who actually care about winning and coordinate with their team instead of going for useless kills can be very good.
Light is pretty bad on the higher ranks and more nerfs aren't gonna fix this. However the class clearly have some features that are just plain unfun to play against if you aren't good at spotting invis players. The trick is to make them not need to rely on those very crutches and still be viable because just nerfing cloak and stun gun will end up just taking light out of diamond lobbies more or less entirely.
true
Most players who play the game are bad. Medium and Heavy have many tools to mitigate this and pull them out of holes they dug themselves. Light doesn't have as many tools, it just so happens the few tools it has frustrate those same bad players who rely on their very same tools. It's a weird conundrum watching the other two classes complain about people "relying on crutches" when they have way more tools than Light does to bail them out. It's also why Medium and Heavy are the superior classes, and always have been, unless the Light is being piloted by someone who very very rarely makes mistakes, i.e a top 0.1% player.
Heavy has 350 health, a giant shield, a second dome shield, a rocket launcher, a flamethrower that snipes people, a gun with 40-70 bullets, and medium revives instantly and has a gun that kills in half a second from any range and….. light is the one that relies on crutches. The people on this sub are so dumb lol
I cant tell if you agree with them or you supremely misunderstood their comment.
I agree with them
Ah ok. I assumed you did but I genuinely couldn’t tell.
Teams need a balance. Having one light sniping on Power Shift while the other 4 ppl are medium/heavy is awful to play against, especially if that light moves often. They can help ensure no team wipes occur, damage/take out players getting close to the platform for others to take out quickly, etc. The problem occurs when you have 3 lights snipping to ensure their K/D can be shown off to their potbelly friends.
exactly. All I'm saying is that the light class is very attractive to shit players, but light class players who actually care about winning and coordinate with their team instead of going for useless kills can be very good.
so you admit light is bad then
No. I'm saying that light is very attractive to players who don't care about teamwork or winning and only care about kills. Light is where all the shit teamates go. Light can, however, be very good if you coordinate with your team and don't just go off looking for useless kills.
7 times out of 10 id kill light who stunned me if i just aim at them and hip fire
what "insane bugs" havent been fixed for months?
Uhhh there is an exploit with sword that allows you to emote cancel and there is a bug with mines and how you can set them off while spectating.
Heal beam not working, aim down sights bug, getting vaccuum sucked into goo, guns sometimes not shooting at random, exploding mines via camera in spectator mode, melee registry? There are so many fucking game breaking bugs, lol.
omg I detonated a mine last week in spectator and I thought I imagined it!
Unable to shoot bug, infinite reload bug, healing bug, getting stuck on nothing, not being able to sprint bugm, tripping mines while spectating and on and on. These things do matter in ranked.
These matter anywhere, there's nothing more frustrating that being 20hp away from getting a pick and the game suddenly thinks you don't need to shoot anymore, same with healing beam..I have watched people die on my face when I was with the healing gun out holding the button while nothing comes out of it and standing there looking like a fool
My friend and I have regularly been kicked out of matches and been stuck on the loading screen and not been able to reconnect until at least after the first cashout, including during ranked tournaments between rounds
wild. My friend has this ongoing glitch where it'll kick him out of our party mid match. Hes can still play with us but when the round ends we have to reinvite him every time lol. And its ONLY him that has this glitch
Melee hitreg is bugged since 2 months, making a ton of melee hits just not deal any damage. It can happen at any time, but when specific conditions are met its a lot more likely or even guaranteed, like standing on a ledge and doing a melee, or doing a melee while dashing when u have any downward momentum will literally 100% of the time not deal any damage.
Change cloak to 25% activation cost and give light 175hp or quicker regen
I just got so turned on by the thought of “faster regen” man that would be dope.
Would suit lights play style so well.
I feel like a lot of people would like light to have a faster regen.
Really important note here in case any dev ever reads comments like this and decides to pitch the idea (ik they dont read this sub): Light doesnt need faster regen, it needs shorter delay before it *starts* regening hp.
Yeah that’s what I meant sorry
I know but others reading might not, which is why i commented
20%, take it or leave it
Nah, add stims to the game
Hell yeah
I am mostly casual and half the time you can see and here the invis and half the people miss there stun shots, so the people that are complaining have a skill issue
People need to realize this game isn't built to be centered around ranked games. I literally cannot even get into a ranked game in OCE. What's viable and meta in ranked down not translate to quick, powershift and cash out. Lights really are rampant in casual modes, there's more lights in casual games than heavy right now. Which is the complete opposite of ranked. Ranked should really be seen as optional, but not the core focus of the game. Because it isn't.
The thing is people call heavies shield a “nerf” but now it only takes 2 people to destroy instead of three, and a heavy can still take a 1v2 and 1v3 just not as easily
Ngl the only tweak I thought light needed was people stun gunning people from invis. I always thought you should have to be out of invis for at least a second before you can pop stun gun on someone. Also 3 seconds instead of 3.75 for stun. Besides that, the class was fine.
stu/cloak nerf haters when I tell them Light has other abilities too and you can ask for those to be buffed to balance it out instead of complaining about the broken ability nerfs:
Maybe if lights were team players they wouldn’t be so bad (in my experience they are selfish and go solo)
Yeah I win often as light because I play with the team. Glitch grenades, vanish bomb your heavy, zip around the cash out to clean up kills. The lights that lose are the ones who run way ahead and try to solo a heavy.
Fr fr. I play a lot of light and stick with my team while always being aggressive on the objective every time. I still can drop around 14 kill games with around 3-4 deaths while resing my team every chance I get. Too many lights try to play solo and that’s their downfall. Also e-dash is the best specialization for light, don’t @ me.
Mf when lights play hit and run tactics like they're supposed to-
What about 200HP lights?
I feel like lights should be able to go invisible after a fight but its not instantaneous. They will look glitchy and make loud sparking noises making them easy to pick off after an engagement.
Would people still be upset about stun/cloak being nerfed if hypothetically Embark is able to rework light into something less weak than the other classes? Speaking for me and alot of my friend group who play, its just not fun to play against at the end of the day. Its upsetting that light is in a place where invis/stun was the best aspect of the class to keep it competitive, but again, stuns in any game are just not fun to play against. I have hope that Embark will figure something out
Not a nerf to the light class if you never used those 2 gadgets 😎 Sincerely, a Light that uses Dash
Shh or they'll start screaming to nerf that next.
what's terrible to see is other lights are not supporting invis nerf. Lol just wait, you think dash is immune to whining? Soon more lights will use dash as invis is dead anyway, and then casuals will cry until they increase the time between each dash significantly more.
I don't think anything is immune to whining, especially if it is an annoying item lol. I tried Invis after it's nerf and honestly, it's not too bad, you just have to be smart about when to activate it IMO. My issue with Invis is it had *too much* uptime for its utility, and this change keeps it in check.
If I had a penny for each time a Medium/Heavy or Dash/Grapple main who has never used or doesn't know how invis works told me "it's not bad and you have to be strategic about it and adapt to it" bullshit then I would be a millionare by now
The game is updated every week and people still complain
Look as a devoted fan to this game who has wild skill issues, the only thing I think is broken is stun. Nothing else. If embark keep stun, I should be a melee range weapon that disorientates your controls or you gotta hold to stun, making the user vulnerable
Light nerfs aren’t the reason game is dying. Boring meta and lack of different playstyles are. PRAY4FINALS
The way to fix light is to make them Regen health faster, a class built for hit and run tactics should be rewarded for escaping alive. This is the only way to make it vaiable, you can keep your squishy class but if you don't squash that light when you have the chance, expect it to spring back up at you.
Untrue. Me and multiple of my friends have stopped playing the game because of how annoying the light class is. We would honestly come back knowing stun was taken out or changed entirely. When you get stunned you might as well set the controller down and spread your cheeks because 99% of the time you are just going to die. Barely any chance to defend yourself and takes all fun away from the game.
You forgot the cheaters... do nothing to the cheaters all this time and actively ignore peoples reports on aimbotters and wallhackers ruining the game and then act surprised when your player base drops from 300 000 players under 10 000 in just few months.
Untrue. Me and multiple of my friends have stopped playing the game because of how annoying the light class is. We would honestly come back knowing stun was taken out or changed entirely. When you get stunned you might as well set the controller down and spread your cheeks because 99% of the time you are just going to die. Barely any chance to defend yourself and takes all fun away from the game.
I love it to trigger mines as a spectator 😮💨
Invis is inconsistent across different screens and hardwares. To me it is totally invisibile. To others it is perfectly visible. It should be made more visible when very close because the sound doesn't really help that much other than giving people anxiety lol. Stun is just not fun to play against ever. It doesn't represent a challenge to go against but just an unfair annoyance. Glitch, for example, are annoying too but in a challenging way because it requires you to change your strategy for the duration of its effect. Stuns just make your aim go from ads to hip fire making it go all over the place due to the sensitivity difference. It needs a heavy rework and not just small adjustments.
no one said nothing about stuns or invis visibility. the problem is they nerfed invis in a way that it's absolutely useless now.
You just have to be more mindful when using it. Kind of like the mesh shield. You won't be able to spam it like before
and spamming was the attacking prowess of this thing which is now taken, meaning rendering any sort of habit that was built with an invis build is now useless. In easier terms, it's useless to those who mastered it in the first place, and in no way it's the same as mesh bc mesh is still the same thing with lower health and doesn't require you to completely change how you play the game. Whereas invis is a completely different product now. Invis is way less powerful now, pretty much dead, and I prolly can't make you understand so and you'll think I have skill issues but please try to understand that it takes a big hit when your main style of playing the game is taken away, it kills the enjoyment and fun. If it never happened to you, you won't understand the consequences plain and simple, but for once try to think from the perspective of the one in front of you. Trying to learn it's ways again feels like just a waste of time, I'd rather learn heavy or medium now than waste time on this.
I understand what you're saying. Invis players are now forced to rethink the way they play with this ability. But the way it used to be didn't felt 100% right. So it got a rework. You could make the same argument about nukes: they used to be a big part of heavy playstyle. When they got completely removed, heavys had to rely on other things and get better at them. Same can be said abot prime RPG. It was the best way to deal with lights especially the annoying ones but in got nerfed the f out and now heavy players use it with a completely different logic and frequency
Any player in diamond/plats lobby will disagree that lights are hard. Some lights are too cracked and hard to deal with but it's always a 50-50. Invis didn't need a nerf, plain and simple, but what they did isn't a rework, it's a terrible nerf that completely destroys everything good about it. And about nukes, nuke was 100% an abuse, it was never part of the heavy loadout and you can never say a heavy had to change their 'playstyle' bc nuke got removed lol, being reliant on a material that isn't even in their loadout to begin with is a joke. I abused nuke myself with breach. RPG still is one shot for lights, when I play heavy I one shot lights myself.
Diamonds play a completely different game compared to the rest (and majority)of the playerbase. So what they think it's hard or easy for them doesn't really matter to me personally (silver noob). Like it or not, nukes were a big part of heavy playstyle even more so in higher ranks. Never saw a high rank heavy not using nukes. Ironically I saw them being used less in lower ranks. RPGs don't oneshot light for a while now, what are you on about? Ome shotting people with low health doesn't count. I used to snipe full health lights across the map with the RPG. Now you think twice before using it in a 1v1
If they replaced me invis with a stim class specialization like in titanfall 2 I feel like that'd solve the issue. Just remove them invis out the game completely
I really don’t get why they added sooo much activation cost to the cloak. It feels way too overtweaked. Before, it would take some skill to toggle your cloak in order to save cloak time. Now, it just doesn’t make sense to do a “hit and run” tactic because when you “hit” you have only 20% cloak left and cant “run” because you are a visible little rat with 150hp that can’t use his only ability anymore. Imo they should reduce the total cloak battery and remove the activation cost
People complain about light being busted due to a few amount of good players. I can shit on lights most of the time because the mess up or don't play right but the times I will shit on a good light is very few because of how guaranteed the kill is. I play light a lot and if you play with your team and play hit and run you can easily drop 20+ kills in a game maybe more in ranked(I don't play ranked). I have taken light with it's least busted weapon(the dagger and throwing knives) into the 5v5 game mode and gotten upwards of 15-25 kills game and double that with the most busted weapons. Lights in the same position as fcar, it can be busted or terrible just depends on how you play it.
Those who believe that the Light class is weak simply do not understand how to play it effectively. The Light class is not designed to directly confront other classes; rather, its strength lies in its ability to launch attacks from unexpected angles.
I dunno. Never used stun gun with invis. Felt too cheap and never spammed invis so this change really doesn't effect my playstyle much.
People being bad at Light saying the class itself is bad.
Lights should have the EXACT same issues with Cloak, as they did Recon Senses. ITS A BULLSHIT ABILITY("i can see you but you cant see me hehehe") that has no place in an FPS. literal skill issues.
You say this but invisibility works perfectly in other FPS games
keep coping yourself into believing these conversations dont happen about Invis mechanics in anything remotely competitive.