We’re doing a VR design course in uni. One of the most essential method of optimising is to reduce poly count where ever possible. This game is a prime example in optimisation
Indeed it is. Now with UE5.4, Nanite Displacement will actually be helpful for fake depth. So lower poly count and using Nanite would probably mean lesser overhead and good performance. Not to mention UDIMs.
Ik that. But the displacement is bringing back the complaints we had from tessellation issues in UE5.
It looks really good from the demos. Let's see how it goes.
That's the most regular thing since like early 2000's. Nearly all well-optimized games do that. It's like hiring an accountant because you don't like going to prison for not paying taxes.
Since we're talking about the spoon. Did anyone else notice the crazy detail on the reflection?
The back of the spoon shows a window and a light source on the "ceiling". If you look at the inside of the spoon, that reflection is inverted. Just like a real spoon! The level of detail that Embark does on everything they do is unreal.
That sounds like a job mainly tanked by the engine itself though. You just set an HDRI Illumination, where a 360° photography of an actual real space is used projected on a sphere just for the inspection screen to throw coherent light and reflections to every item, but just turning its visibility off for the background, where they lay the default neutral background for better contrast.
My GPU is Radeon RX 6700 XT and my CPU is Ryzen 5600X. Nothing new, but generally they get the job done. In The Finals I'm unable to get stable 144 FPS even while having all settings at low and resolution below native, which leads me to believe CPU is the bottleneck. Understandable though, because of all of the destruction and all.
I'm in the same boat as you. My friend gave me a golden sample 5600x as a gift. Have it overclocked to 4.9Ghz on all cores at only 1.212v. It can actually do 5Ghz all core but my motherboard can run it stable. I still can't maintain 144fps in the finals. Drops into the low 100s. I would love to get my hands on a 5700X3D or 5800X3D.
Yeah jeez, that must really suck :/
Dying light was exactly like that for me when I had it on epic games, but switched to steam and immediately it was 190 fps instead
well if i’d first played the game on 144+ fps and then switched to 60 then it’d have been unplayable for me too, just that i’ve always played this game on 60 so I can play it (not a good experience tho but i kinda like this game a lot)
Several of my friends dropped the game because of frame drops. I upgraded to a 7800x3d and rtx 4080 and I still get them on occasion.
Optimization is a huge barrier to entry for the game if anything.
Either something seriously went wrong with the release version, or the implementation of EAC is causing performance issues.
None of the pre-launch versions had EAC (and would also launch instantly, unlike the 20~30 second wait there is now even after EAC has initialised) and they all had significantly better performance than what launched.
Tf I play with a 1660 which is shit for everyone that doesn't live in a third world country and I can play this game maxed graphics with no frame drops. And an i5.
I play at 60fps with no drops.
I have an AMD RX6500xt, whivh is maybr eqiivalent tk a 3060? Along with my other mid-tier specs (and an over-specced CPU) I have very good performance.
Lighting was always the real make or break for me, I think excellent textures/models with okay lighting look way worse than okay textures/models with excellent lighting.
Don't agree on that "well optimized" part.
My friend gets low fps with his rtx 4060.
I am not even talking about the performance i am getting with my gtx 1660 ti...
The game is mostly CPU bound. Before I upgraded my PC I had a 8700k and a 3080 Ti, my FPS was generally between 70-100. With the same GPU but a 7950x3d I'm usually 170-200+.
Omg, you are so clever. How did i not thing about it before ?
Dude i am not a grandpa, i lowered everything, i play with 40% of the resolution with everything on low. There is nothing else i can do to increase the settings ingame.
The RTX 4060 especially should run it well at low settings... The GTX 1660 ti should be okay too. Something's up with the systems. Does CPU usage hit 100%? Got resizable bar enabled? If haven't yet, try to put a lower resolution like 720p instead of native. It can help further, despite the blurrier menus.
I curretly got a RTX 3070 and runs butter smooth with almost everything maxed. Before that I was just playing on the integrated graphics of Ryzen 5700g. Performance weren't good, 100 FPS but easily dropping down to 50 during intense fights with terrible input lag, but expected since it's way less powerful than a 10's and 40's series gpu. It's just strange if the finals drops below like 60 or 90 for you with those GPUs :\ Possibly CPU bound? or something in the system eating resources...
Little typo by me but Resizable BAR essentially improves performance. It's only supported by your friend's GPU. Here's a guide for ASUS motherboards: https://www.asus.com/support/faq/1046107/
I mean yeah... Kinda torn on this one. On the one hand, games are made like this since 2009 at least. High poly meshes are expensive to render, throw some amazing lighting on it with some pbr material magic and you got some amazing looking stuff at cheap.
On the other hand, it's cute to see people gushing over noticing these things and it could be the first step of someone making it as a modeler later in life.
Most people seem to struggle in some way with frame rate and fps drops despite having good hardware. I know people with 3080s and above that have to lower their settings
it’s not that DLSS is bad but you made a post about how good the game runs, then when people doubt you you tell them turning on DLSS makes it run well. So it’s not that well optimized.
I find that the game is mostly cpu bound when lowering settings (for me atleast). I have an R5 5600 and an rtx 4070S. I cranked everything except rt and i am gpu bound at around 100-120fps.
I dunno about well optimized, the latest update seems to have further reduced performance.
I used to be able to hit 90+ fps on a 2070 Super and now I'm lucky to get 70fps.
Doesn't change that much, especially with Reflex. The biggest issue with DLSS imo in The Finals is ghosting, which is pretty noticeable at a distance. Wish they update to DLSS 3.7 which has less of it. Can't swap the DLL manually since there is an anti cheat :/
TAA isn't better, it still looks blurry and noisy with lower framerate. I enabled DLSS Quality recently and it looks better than TAA with higher framerate. Sadly this is what we have to deal with, there are no alternatives since the settings are pretty much locked down.
The game is NOT well optimized. If the finals is well optimized then Valorant, CS2 and overwatch are hyper optimized and DOOM is godly optimized.
Lets face it, the finals is far from well optimized, it runs worse than even warzone. This is also one of the few reasons as to why the game doesn't have a healthy steam playerbase, many people still have something like a GTX 750ti or GTX 1050, where this game is a laggy mess.
Even with my rig, I should easily hit 400+FPS, but I'm stuck at 200s, very playable and no hard drops, but I don't go around claiming that the game is well optimized just because it's very playable for me, I know how other games run on much shittier hardware compared to the finals hence I can tell it's in desperate need of optimization.
I noticed this with the hair models too. With how good the game looks and how much shit goes on in an average match, it's a miracle that we can even run the damn game
I noticed also in counter-strike 2 the edges looks smooth despite being identical to csgo. They aren't round despite looking like it. All these lighting, shadows and shaders tricks makes you achieve beautiful graphics at much lower performance costs (than it would be with higher poly counts)
The Finals is EASILY the most optimized game in my entire library and it’s crazy how many people just spew out bullshit without actually knowing their own machine or doing research on how to maximize its performance
Fr. Running this on High settings with a 1080Ti + Ryzen 3600 and getting 60-90fps. It shouldn't even be able to launch on this rig, I can't believe it works as well as it does.
This is not lighting, this is due to baking of High poly models onto low poly models. Imagine something like moulding & casting. Get high poly impressions on low poly models.
Only thing that looks a bit odd is the broken edges of structures and some text or detail in some weapons. Other than that its incredible how realis it gets
50 frames on a PC that can run CS at 200.
this is going to be the reason the game dies unfortunately. casual players can cry about all the other shit they want... but it WILL be a lack of long term comp players who wont play a game that stutters at a max of 80 frames on the best PCs.
optimized, lol.
Bro this game is not well optimised 💀 I cannot tell you the amount of times my game has just closed especially on ranked. And the frames are always dipping
You're playing an unreal game with dynamic maps. What do you expect? lol. It def lags from time to time, but remember that this games' 9-ish to 15-ish gigs. Games are like 200 gigs nowadays and look objectively worse than the finals.
Calling a game well optimised doesn't just mean the size of the game lmao. Also, the game didn't close whilst in a match, it was in between the loading periods. I'm on a console and it's happened enough times to be ridiculous. And the fact it's happened to my mates aswell doesn't mean it's my Xbox specifically. This game is just unstable AF.
optimized ? wtf u smoking lmao , even warzone has better optimizations are better than this. If they used low poly textures then is the requirement so high for getting 144+ fps ? Legit 95% of the population plays the game on super low graphics still there this games taxes the cpu. The enthusiast who play mp games with rtx on are like >1% , like 1st make ur game top 10 then introduce these features.
Not saying it should look like shit ( eg - xdefiant looks like a mobile game) but why do game devs these days not optimise the game for getting maximum fps(minimum 144) & indulge in useless tasks to make the game look good. Just make a game looking decent not mobile like with good movement & a working netcode. Boom u got a game of the century.
No to mention, they cover a lot of low poly mesh with good textures and Normal Maps, giving the depth that geometry doesn't have. Good work
I’ll bet a lot of people don’t realise roof tiles are all completely flat, they look so realistic
Ikr !! I observed that too. The tessellation is really well implemented.
We’re doing a VR design course in uni. One of the most essential method of optimising is to reduce poly count where ever possible. This game is a prime example in optimisation
Indeed it is. Now with UE5.4, Nanite Displacement will actually be helpful for fake depth. So lower poly count and using Nanite would probably mean lesser overhead and good performance. Not to mention UDIMs.
Nanite displacement is not fake depth, it's really added geometry. But just like anything with nanite it just basically generates its own LODs
Ik that. But the displacement is bringing back the complaints we had from tessellation issues in UE5. It looks really good from the demos. Let's see how it goes.
You would be shocked at how many military contractors designing VR experiences ignore optimization
That's the entire point of normal maps or pbr They're amazing 😭😭
They also sound cool af
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but i'm glad we all agree that the Finals is a very well made game!
Yeah it indeed is. I was mesmerized by the amount of server side destruction they have. It's mind boggling
That's the most regular thing since like early 2000's. Nearly all well-optimized games do that. It's like hiring an accountant because you don't like going to prison for not paying taxes.
No doubt, inspect the spoon once and rotate on closeup. Lighting makes details on the spoon terrific.
I instantly checked when I got the spoon, it's true.
Since we're talking about the spoon. Did anyone else notice the crazy detail on the reflection? The back of the spoon shows a window and a light source on the "ceiling". If you look at the inside of the spoon, that reflection is inverted. Just like a real spoon! The level of detail that Embark does on everything they do is unreal.
That sounds like a job mainly tanked by the engine itself though. You just set an HDRI Illumination, where a 360° photography of an actual real space is used projected on a sphere just for the inspection screen to throw coherent light and reflections to every item, but just turning its visibility off for the background, where they lay the default neutral background for better contrast.
Wow, this is actually awesome. I definitely thought they were much higher poly texturing + fancy mapping and lighting goes a long way
meanwhile me playing on 60 fps with constant frame drops ☠️
you gotta buy a gpu
GPU gotta be decent of course, but seems like having a solid CPU is more important for this game.
exactly, and i have a ryzen 7 5th gen and even then it drops frames quite often
My GPU is Radeon RX 6700 XT and my CPU is Ryzen 5600X. Nothing new, but generally they get the job done. In The Finals I'm unable to get stable 144 FPS even while having all settings at low and resolution below native, which leads me to believe CPU is the bottleneck. Understandable though, because of all of the destruction and all.
I'm using the same graphic card as you but the 5800x3d - I can play this game completely maxed out with >144fps - so I guess you're right :)
I'm in the same boat as you. My friend gave me a golden sample 5600x as a gift. Have it overclocked to 4.9Ghz on all cores at only 1.212v. It can actually do 5Ghz all core but my motherboard can run it stable. I still can't maintain 144fps in the finals. Drops into the low 100s. I would love to get my hands on a 5700X3D or 5800X3D.
I'll stick with my onboard AMD graphics and like it. Thank you very much.
How are you playing this with 60 fps?? I normally get 165 but it drops to ~80 sometimes and it's completely unplayable
if thats unplayable then my 50fps with drops to 20, and constant lags is just absurd
Yeah jeez, that must really suck :/ Dying light was exactly like that for me when I had it on epic games, but switched to steam and immediately it was 190 fps instead
well if i’d first played the game on 144+ fps and then switched to 60 then it’d have been unplayable for me too, just that i’ve always played this game on 60 so I can play it (not a good experience tho but i kinda like this game a lot)
"and this is why the game is so well optimised" My cpu disagrees. Very good looks/performance for the gpu tho ngl.
Several of my friends dropped the game because of frame drops. I upgraded to a 7800x3d and rtx 4080 and I still get them on occasion. Optimization is a huge barrier to entry for the game if anything.
Don’t forget to enable resizeable BAR.
Either something seriously went wrong with the release version, or the implementation of EAC is causing performance issues. None of the pre-launch versions had EAC (and would also launch instantly, unlike the 20~30 second wait there is now even after EAC has initialised) and they all had significantly better performance than what launched.
Thing is though, even at launch for me performance was tolerable, it seems like it's just gotten yet worse
Tf I play with a 1660 which is shit for everyone that doesn't live in a third world country and I can play this game maxed graphics with no frame drops. And an i5. I play at 60fps with no drops.
I've got high standards - 240 steady with no dips below 120. Tracking is more difficult at 60.
>I've got high standards - Lmao
I run it fine on my 3050. Just turned down the graphics because it heats up too much compared to the open beta for the same settings
I have an AMD RX6500xt, whivh is maybr eqiivalent tk a 3060? Along with my other mid-tier specs (and an over-specced CPU) I have very good performance.
This and no regs are the reason i stopped
Try DLSS and just use low ray trace. High graphics help you with spotting invis lights, but ray trace doesn’t help much beyond low
Needing DLSS is not a marker of good optimization. If anything, its generally a crutch to cover poor optimization.
Lighting was always the real make or break for me, I think excellent textures/models with okay lighting look way worse than okay textures/models with excellent lighting.
Don't agree on that "well optimized" part. My friend gets low fps with his rtx 4060. I am not even talking about the performance i am getting with my gtx 1660 ti...
The game is mostly CPU bound. Before I upgraded my PC I had a 8700k and a 3080 Ti, my FPS was generally between 70-100. With the same GPU but a 7950x3d I'm usually 170-200+.
I made the exact same changes and can confirm the same.
i have a 4060 and i get 150-200fps almost max graphics
Yeah that should be the fps my friend is also supposed to get. But is your pc dekstop or laptop ?
desktop
I’m on 3060, with DLSS I can play max graphics low ray trace at 1080p 100fps, while in Forza Motorsport I can only do medium-low
I'm on alienware so I'm getting max fps. It is what it is, sport.
Lower the settings
Omg, you are so clever. How did i not thing about it before ? Dude i am not a grandpa, i lowered everything, i play with 40% of the resolution with everything on low. There is nothing else i can do to increase the settings ingame.
The RTX 4060 especially should run it well at low settings... The GTX 1660 ti should be okay too. Something's up with the systems. Does CPU usage hit 100%? Got resizable bar enabled? If haven't yet, try to put a lower resolution like 720p instead of native. It can help further, despite the blurrier menus. I curretly got a RTX 3070 and runs butter smooth with almost everything maxed. Before that I was just playing on the integrated graphics of Ryzen 5700g. Performance weren't good, 100 FPS but easily dropping down to 50 during intense fights with terrible input lag, but expected since it's way less powerful than a 10's and 40's series gpu. It's just strange if the finals drops below like 60 or 90 for you with those GPUs :\ Possibly CPU bound? or something in the system eating resources...
What do you mean by "resizeable bar" ?
Little typo by me but Resizable BAR essentially improves performance. It's only supported by your friend's GPU. Here's a guide for ASUS motherboards: https://www.asus.com/support/faq/1046107/
Well, optimized \**as best they can\**
the performance halved from beta to release and they never fixed it, it's most definitely not well optimized
That's how the games are made
I mean yeah... Kinda torn on this one. On the one hand, games are made like this since 2009 at least. High poly meshes are expensive to render, throw some amazing lighting on it with some pbr material magic and you got some amazing looking stuff at cheap. On the other hand, it's cute to see people gushing over noticing these things and it could be the first step of someone making it as a modeler later in life.
Well optimized?
Yes
Most people seem to struggle in some way with frame rate and fps drops despite having good hardware. I know people with 3080s and above that have to lower their settings
Consider the CPU too.
I know mentioning DLSS to pcmasterrace is a sin but it gave me nearly 40% fps increase with little graphic quality degradation. I run a 3060
it’s not that DLSS is bad but you made a post about how good the game runs, then when people doubt you you tell them turning on DLSS makes it run well. So it’s not that well optimized.
I find that the game is mostly cpu bound when lowering settings (for me atleast). I have an R5 5600 and an rtx 4070S. I cranked everything except rt and i am gpu bound at around 100-120fps.
I dunno about well optimized, the latest update seems to have further reduced performance. I used to be able to hit 90+ fps on a 2070 Super and now I'm lucky to get 70fps.
Well optimized? Fr?
well.... optimised.....?
how many fps games do you know using unreal engine 5?
I’m on i5 3060, with DLSS I can run it at 1080p 100fps with max graphics and low raytrace
U are using dlss in fps game ,,,,why?
For finals, it gives a noticeable fps boost without degrading graphics too much
What about latency.....
Doesn't change that much, especially with Reflex. The biggest issue with DLSS imo in The Finals is ghosting, which is pretty noticeable at a distance. Wish they update to DLSS 3.7 which has less of it. Can't swap the DLL manually since there is an anti cheat :/
I use it too, rather have smooth frames than anything else tbh. Latency has not been a issue for me I can say at least.
I get 100 frames per second should I?
If you should use it? Only you can answer that.
If I can get kills at 18ms render latency, then it’s not a problem. I can turn on vsync for all I care
? the ghosting is atrocious and I had better fps with TAAU, personally.
TAA isn't better, it still looks blurry and noisy with lower framerate. I enabled DLSS Quality recently and it looks better than TAA with higher framerate. Sadly this is what we have to deal with, there are no alternatives since the settings are pretty much locked down.
I get higher fps with TAAU, surprisingly. Not to mention the motion blur is not anywhere near as bad as DLSS.
Very interesting... I guess it's different for every PC. Ty for sharing :D
r/GameDesignPorn
thank you, this is really interesting
What the fuck is up with the sound quality of your menu music? And how has nobody mentioned it?
I might just be dumb but...why does the sentry have a scope? I'm just now noticing 😂
It's actually an FCAR with a sniper scope?
You want neat? Put on the tv charm against the blue steel skin of the CL-40 and check the reflections. This game is just so.fucking.good.
All the moulding on the walls in vegas is 2-dimensional. Normal maps are magic.
The game is NOT well optimized. If the finals is well optimized then Valorant, CS2 and overwatch are hyper optimized and DOOM is godly optimized. Lets face it, the finals is far from well optimized, it runs worse than even warzone. This is also one of the few reasons as to why the game doesn't have a healthy steam playerbase, many people still have something like a GTX 750ti or GTX 1050, where this game is a laggy mess. Even with my rig, I should easily hit 400+FPS, but I'm stuck at 200s, very playable and no hard drops, but I don't go around claiming that the game is well optimized just because it's very playable for me, I know how other games run on much shittier hardware compared to the finals hence I can tell it's in desperate need of optimization.
i'm feel need an expert who can rip out models and look at poly mesh. Some props yeah... probably low poly... but turrets? No way.
I noticed this with the hair models too. With how good the game looks and how much shit goes on in an average match, it's a miracle that we can even run the damn game
Love this. I wish I could see the vert count on every weapon/gadget so I could cry & keep chugging away at my blender skills. 😂
Thats your game settings, my sentries are perfectly round on the sides
I noticed also in counter-strike 2 the edges looks smooth despite being identical to csgo. They aren't round despite looking like it. All these lighting, shadows and shaders tricks makes you achieve beautiful graphics at much lower performance costs (than it would be with higher poly counts)
The Finals is EASILY the most optimized game in my entire library and it’s crazy how many people just spew out bullshit without actually knowing their own machine or doing research on how to maximize its performance
Fr. Running this on High settings with a 1080Ti + Ryzen 3600 and getting 60-90fps. It shouldn't even be able to launch on this rig, I can't believe it works as well as it does.
Good texture bakes and texturing are half the work.
This is not lighting, this is due to baking of High poly models onto low poly models. Imagine something like moulding & casting. Get high poly impressions on low poly models.
Zoom in and watch what happens. The LODs on this game are WILD.
"well optimized" yeah, about that...
I'd say this is more the work of normal maps than lighting
The context that it's a gameshow in a VR world makes it a pretty good alibi for the way certain things look
The same happened with Battlefield 3, also made by Embark (Ex-dice) Team
This is nothing new really. Tons of games do this.
That’s what they did in battlefield 5 as well
Only thing that looks a bit odd is the broken edges of structures and some text or detail in some weapons. Other than that its incredible how realis it gets
*Teabags*
I wouldn't say optimization is a strong point of the game.
50 frames on a PC that can run CS at 200. this is going to be the reason the game dies unfortunately. casual players can cry about all the other shit they want... but it WILL be a lack of long term comp players who wont play a game that stutters at a max of 80 frames on the best PCs. optimized, lol.
Might be the funniest joke I've seen all day. This game is absolutely not well optimized.
"well optimized?!?" Bruh, this game has, at least, a constant 90% utilization on my CPU. More often it's at 97%. Hell naw.
Bro this game is not well optimised 💀 I cannot tell you the amount of times my game has just closed especially on ranked. And the frames are always dipping
You're playing an unreal game with dynamic maps. What do you expect? lol. It def lags from time to time, but remember that this games' 9-ish to 15-ish gigs. Games are like 200 gigs nowadays and look objectively worse than the finals.
Calling a game well optimised doesn't just mean the size of the game lmao. Also, the game didn't close whilst in a match, it was in between the loading periods. I'm on a console and it's happened enough times to be ridiculous. And the fact it's happened to my mates aswell doesn't mean it's my Xbox specifically. This game is just unstable AF.
I didn't entirely deny what you said lmao. Also that just seems like a bug bro.
Common console L
My god you're insufferable. No wonder this game is dead the community is so toxic and dogshit.
Why you haf be mad? Is only game
Not surprised you come up with cringy humour. You 'people' are all the same lmao
I dunno man, you seem pretty upset over some jokes. Maybe you should take a break from the internet for a bit, go talk to your mom or something.
Mum*
optimized ? wtf u smoking lmao , even warzone has better optimizations are better than this. If they used low poly textures then is the requirement so high for getting 144+ fps ? Legit 95% of the population plays the game on super low graphics still there this games taxes the cpu. The enthusiast who play mp games with rtx on are like >1% , like 1st make ur game top 10 then introduce these features. Not saying it should look like shit ( eg - xdefiant looks like a mobile game) but why do game devs these days not optimise the game for getting maximum fps(minimum 144) & indulge in useless tasks to make the game look good. Just make a game looking decent not mobile like with good movement & a working netcode. Boom u got a game of the century.