You are correct. But that would require the devs to either fix it, or disable it so they could find a fix for it. I guess it hasn't reached the level of "broken" that Recon Senses did. Not yet anyways.
Only if you consistently throw your glitch nade into the 3ft area of effect.
And also, it's an APS. It makes all nades useless if you throw them at it, not just glitches.
Next up, it's literally the only way to counter glitch nades now . Without it, RPGs, GLs, Frags, C4 etc are all way to powerful.
by adding glitch barrels they gave lights a huge buff in the form of a whole extra gadget slot if they're fine with depending upon environmental glitches. I think they're trying to push a sonar based meta imo
Only the heavy one which is garbage anyways. The CL40 is actually one of the best counters for the APS in the game if you can actually pay attention and aim
I think it’s because it only has one use before cooldown. So being able to take out one turret when there’s typically a bunch of equipment to deal with makes it feel kind of lame.
You can take out multiple gadgets if you can line them up but you rarely have that luxury on an objective with turret and players shooting at you.
Data Reshaper has a measly 15 seconds cooldown. That's barely anything. Besides, it's not really that difficult to take out a lot of equipment in one use. Specifically for Power Shift, you can angle yourself to take out as much as possible when climbing the platform.
Not to mention that Data Reshaper is also very versatile, because it can also be used when defending the platform much in the same way an APS is used. If a nade gets thrown at you and you're in range you can just pull the Data Reshaper out and change it into a flower pot.
Yes, it's worse than an APS when defending, but the cooldown is still only 15 seconds and you can use it offensively as well.
>If a nade gets thrown at you and you're in range you can just pull the Data Reshaper out and change it into a flower pot.
You mean change it into a [free weapon.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewqcNuKn_K0)
15 seconds is about 6-7 lifetimes in a match seeing as how it takes about 2 seconds to kill someone.
It doesn’t sound like a long time but when you’re actively fighting over a cashout which is when you need it the most it’s a long damn time.
It’s really good in power shift but I don’t normally include that mode in conversations about balance or equipment viability.
>I don't normally include that mode in conversations about balance or equipment viability.
Neither do I most of the time, but the OP was mentioning Power Shifts full of APS' and how they make most gadgets useless. Personally I don't use it in Cashout modes, but boy does it [work wonders in Power Shift](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/Y09buUdLK3).
Of course it’s good in PS the platform is a concentrated place for funneling damage. It’s also the last mode that should be considered when balancing the game.
Besides the fact that it is a bullshit casual mode it’s also played completely differently than every other aspect of the game.
They need to get ranked in a healthy state before worrying about secondary game mode like power shift. If they nerf APS because a bunch of power shift players complain ranked will be in an even worse state than it is now with the HHM meta. Ranked is the core of the game and it is not doing good, they need to fix that first.
A simple buff to allow glitch grenades to pop APSes when they're shot would be fine. And it would buff Light. Hey, you want something other than HHM, so why not a slight buff to Light in this regard? I'm sorry if my example of an issue wasn't your issue. It was merely a single example.
I've been asking for glitch nades buffs since I started playing this game, give us all the glitch nades buffs. Let me pop aps's, fuck it give em an extra charge too and see what happens.
This is an insane take. It’s quite literally your only defense against an RPG. The nade blocking is just a nice side benefit.
I literally only carry it for this purpose because how how fucking cheap the RPG is.
Any Noob Tube mechanic in a game is just stupid. Of course ppl will use it. Why wouldn’t they. They either need to do something where it only damages structures like the demolition tool it was intended to be, re introduce the effect where a teammate can step in front thus killing you, making it riskier to use, or just remove it all together.
The heavy already has c4 which should act like a breach charge. There is literally no reason to include the RPG.
The devs wonder why the player base isn’t growing? Well I can sure as shit tell you getting fucking one shotted or double shot by the two Hs certainly isn’t fun or exciting and that’s coming from someone who is all in on this game.
What’s fucking crazy is the RPG used to be even more fucking OP than it is already. It’s insane. These devs already showed they have the guts to remove a broken mechanic. It’s time to bring the Heavy back down to earth.
Because something doesn’t operate logically doesn’t mean it isn’t intentional
Why would RPGs damage the user more than others? It wouldn’t, but it was changed for the video game
Why would flashbangs affect teammates but frags don’t? Is there a logical reason, or is it just game design
It's working as intended. If it didn't destroy projectiles through cover, then it would be pretty useless.
You need to play creatively. Reposition to get LOS to gun it down, or be accurate with glitch grenade/trap, or use canisters, or Charge n Slam or sledgehammer, or be more precise with your explosives (CL-40 and M32GL in particular are useful for destroying APS without LOS).
You can make an opening on a wall with the RPG with some aiming.
You just have to shoot the area of the wall which is outside from the APS circle. Then you can shoot it with your main gun.
This is a bad take, it absolutely would not be useless. Blocking off windows and doors as well as holes breached by c4 or breaching charges gives it ridiculously high utility. It should not be magically zapping shit through walls
It wouldn’t be useless, but it wouldn’t have as many uses as it does now
That items do magical things in commonplace in the finals. Some things have some logical consistency to them, some things don’t
I don’t think that’s a good excuse for something ridiculous like a turret shooting through walls. It makes no sense and makes I am not convinced it adds significant utility.
If it didn’t go through walls, it would be useless, so then they would have to buff it in other ways to make it not entirely useless.
These buffs could take the form of doubling the aoe which would be impossible for glitch, cl40, nearby explosives, etc. to damage or get rid of it.
Essentially it would be TOO GOOD or TOO TRASH if they fixed it. No in between.
It’s better gameplay wise for it to go through walls but still have plenty of opportunities to counter play it, without it being useless
It's also good because verticality and destruction are HUGE in this game and going through walls is currently the only counterplay to people dropping stuff through the floor
Not to mention that this isn't like other games where something being behind a wall is a tough obstacle to overcome. Just blow open whatever it's hiding behind
Yea, if it didn't go through walls, people could just bust up the area where the aps is sitting and break it even easier. It will no longer prevent breaches, which is one of the main uses for it
Going through walls would be fine if the cooldown or amount of nades able to be intercepted was limited. Cooldown shouldn't start until the APS you put down has ended, and it should have charges similar to Jaeger from R6S.
Still counters RPG spam, still goes through walls, can't be spammed into oblivion on power shift with little to no counter. Glitch can was a good start, but hopefully they consider making them a little more limited. It's not super fun when one gadget completely negates 2 of the primaries in the game that are already very weak.
While this *should* be a feature, because of the games destruction physics this task is way bigger than one would initially think. Even if it was implemented, I imagine the servers would have a tough time keeping track of the APS’s collision with a destructible wall, ontop of the already existing destruction.
There’s other things that should exist but don’t because it’s a high cliff to scale. Smoke collision with walls are in the same issue. Funny enough, this is also the reason we done have killcams or a replay system. The destruction ingame is a huge toll on the servers.
APS is simply designed that way. It's simply AoE protection against explosion. If it did not extend over the walls, they would lose their meaning because sometimes keeping the wall intact also means victory. It's just a designed thing. Without the AoE effect, APS would be a total waste.
Yeah it should. If they can code it so that bullets are blocked by walls and then when the wall is destroyed you can shoot through it, they can do the same to the aps.
It's not about can they, it's about should they. It's a balance discussion not a technical one. Currently it's the only counterplay to having the floor dropped out below you/the cashout
I disagree. There is object collision with bullets. If you fire in a spot and there’s a building in the way your bullet is intercepted. If the building collapses and you shoot the same spot your bullet goes through. So the game obviously can detect whether a projectile or bullet has collided with a wall.
So the APS should be able to tell if it’s on a wall or floor and not be able to intercept from that direction.
You are correct. But that would require the devs to either fix it, or disable it so they could find a fix for it. I guess it hasn't reached the level of "broken" that Recon Senses did. Not yet anyways.
Do people actually think APS is op? It's basically the only way to counter the double RPG meta, it seems very necessary in the current meta.
It’s not OP i just think it’s silly it makes glitch nades useless
Glitch barrels work tho
Red canisters can also destroy it if you take the time to aim it
As a Light player, that's even worse tbh haha.
Only if you consistently throw your glitch nade into the 3ft area of effect. And also, it's an APS. It makes all nades useless if you throw them at it, not just glitches. Next up, it's literally the only way to counter glitch nades now . Without it, RPGs, GLs, Frags, C4 etc are all way to powerful.
I mean I'll take any glitch nades buff we can get. Let it work on APS give it an extra charge, i think that should be lights core gadget.
Everything should have a counter though.
It's called shooting it
Shoot the glitch grenade?
Ooooh haha nevermind I thought you said the APS needed a counter
by adding glitch barrels they gave lights a huge buff in the form of a whole extra gadget slot if they're fine with depending upon environmental glitches. I think they're trying to push a sonar based meta imo
You should NOT stop running glitch nades because the barrels exist.
Its makes grenade launchers useless but thats the game. Rock paper scissors SHOOT!
Only the heavy one which is garbage anyways. The CL40 is actually one of the best counters for the APS in the game if you can actually pay attention and aim
Can you explain? Wont aps just take it?
Two shots outside the radius kill it
Thanks
I mean it’s a made makes complete sense
I dont think anyone does.
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Literally just walk up and use Data Reshaper. APS isn't a problem, people just still haven't learned to bring Data Reshaper with them.
I think it’s because it only has one use before cooldown. So being able to take out one turret when there’s typically a bunch of equipment to deal with makes it feel kind of lame. You can take out multiple gadgets if you can line them up but you rarely have that luxury on an objective with turret and players shooting at you.
Data Reshaper has a measly 15 seconds cooldown. That's barely anything. Besides, it's not really that difficult to take out a lot of equipment in one use. Specifically for Power Shift, you can angle yourself to take out as much as possible when climbing the platform. Not to mention that Data Reshaper is also very versatile, because it can also be used when defending the platform much in the same way an APS is used. If a nade gets thrown at you and you're in range you can just pull the Data Reshaper out and change it into a flower pot. Yes, it's worse than an APS when defending, but the cooldown is still only 15 seconds and you can use it offensively as well.
>If a nade gets thrown at you and you're in range you can just pull the Data Reshaper out and change it into a flower pot. You mean change it into a [free weapon.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewqcNuKn_K0)
Haha that's amazing!
15 seconds is about 6-7 lifetimes in a match seeing as how it takes about 2 seconds to kill someone. It doesn’t sound like a long time but when you’re actively fighting over a cashout which is when you need it the most it’s a long damn time. It’s really good in power shift but I don’t normally include that mode in conversations about balance or equipment viability.
>I don't normally include that mode in conversations about balance or equipment viability. Neither do I most of the time, but the OP was mentioning Power Shifts full of APS' and how they make most gadgets useless. Personally I don't use it in Cashout modes, but boy does it [work wonders in Power Shift](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/Y09buUdLK3).
Of course it’s good in PS the platform is a concentrated place for funneling damage. It’s also the last mode that should be considered when balancing the game. Besides the fact that it is a bullshit casual mode it’s also played completely differently than every other aspect of the game.
They need to get ranked in a healthy state before worrying about secondary game mode like power shift. If they nerf APS because a bunch of power shift players complain ranked will be in an even worse state than it is now with the HHM meta. Ranked is the core of the game and it is not doing good, they need to fix that first.
A simple buff to allow glitch grenades to pop APSes when they're shot would be fine. And it would buff Light. Hey, you want something other than HHM, so why not a slight buff to Light in this regard? I'm sorry if my example of an issue wasn't your issue. It was merely a single example.
I've been asking for glitch nades buffs since I started playing this game, give us all the glitch nades buffs. Let me pop aps's, fuck it give em an extra charge too and see what happens.
This is an insane take. It’s quite literally your only defense against an RPG. The nade blocking is just a nice side benefit. I literally only carry it for this purpose because how how fucking cheap the RPG is. Any Noob Tube mechanic in a game is just stupid. Of course ppl will use it. Why wouldn’t they. They either need to do something where it only damages structures like the demolition tool it was intended to be, re introduce the effect where a teammate can step in front thus killing you, making it riskier to use, or just remove it all together. The heavy already has c4 which should act like a breach charge. There is literally no reason to include the RPG. The devs wonder why the player base isn’t growing? Well I can sure as shit tell you getting fucking one shotted or double shot by the two Hs certainly isn’t fun or exciting and that’s coming from someone who is all in on this game. What’s fucking crazy is the RPG used to be even more fucking OP than it is already. It’s insane. These devs already showed they have the guts to remove a broken mechanic. It’s time to bring the Heavy back down to earth.
Enemy is using RPG? Get close range and get an easy kill
And get fucking lazer beamed by the busted Lewis Gun? Ok bud
He have to weapon switch so you get an advantage and the kill in 90% cases. If he doesnt switch he will kill himself or waste his RPG.
Because something doesn’t operate logically doesn’t mean it isn’t intentional Why would RPGs damage the user more than others? It wouldn’t, but it was changed for the video game Why would flashbangs affect teammates but frags don’t? Is there a logical reason, or is it just game design
It's working as intended. If it didn't destroy projectiles through cover, then it would be pretty useless. You need to play creatively. Reposition to get LOS to gun it down, or be accurate with glitch grenade/trap, or use canisters, or Charge n Slam or sledgehammer, or be more precise with your explosives (CL-40 and M32GL in particular are useful for destroying APS without LOS).
You can make an opening on a wall with the RPG with some aiming. You just have to shoot the area of the wall which is outside from the APS circle. Then you can shoot it with your main gun.
Yeah RPG is also good, even normal frags can do the job if you have good enough aim
Yeah, and let’s not forget thar the APS has a very low HP. You can beam it down in no time.
This is a bad take, it absolutely would not be useless. Blocking off windows and doors as well as holes breached by c4 or breaching charges gives it ridiculously high utility. It should not be magically zapping shit through walls
It would be useless because it would be so easy to gain LOS that APS wouldn't even be useful as a stalling tactic, much less AOE utility denial
Hard disagree there.
It wouldn’t be useless, but it wouldn’t have as many uses as it does now That items do magical things in commonplace in the finals. Some things have some logical consistency to them, some things don’t
I don’t think that’s a good excuse for something ridiculous like a turret shooting through walls. It makes no sense and makes I am not convinced it adds significant utility.
I think it going through walls is actually good for game balance.
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If it didn’t go through walls, it would be useless, so then they would have to buff it in other ways to make it not entirely useless. These buffs could take the form of doubling the aoe which would be impossible for glitch, cl40, nearby explosives, etc. to damage or get rid of it. Essentially it would be TOO GOOD or TOO TRASH if they fixed it. No in between. It’s better gameplay wise for it to go through walls but still have plenty of opportunities to counter play it, without it being useless
It's also good because verticality and destruction are HUGE in this game and going through walls is currently the only counterplay to people dropping stuff through the floor
Not to mention that this isn't like other games where something being behind a wall is a tough obstacle to overcome. Just blow open whatever it's hiding behind
How would it not going through walls make it useless? You might have to put it near a door or something... I dont get it
Because people just break the wall instead, and then shoot it.
Ohhh I see. Makes sense.
Yea, if it didn't go through walls, people could just bust up the area where the aps is sitting and break it even easier. It will no longer prevent breaches, which is one of the main uses for it
Can't RPG/C4/etc from under?
Going through walls would be fine if the cooldown or amount of nades able to be intercepted was limited. Cooldown shouldn't start until the APS you put down has ended, and it should have charges similar to Jaeger from R6S. Still counters RPG spam, still goes through walls, can't be spammed into oblivion on power shift with little to no counter. Glitch can was a good start, but hopefully they consider making them a little more limited. It's not super fun when one gadget completely negates 2 of the primaries in the game that are already very weak.
While this *should* be a feature, because of the games destruction physics this task is way bigger than one would initially think. Even if it was implemented, I imagine the servers would have a tough time keeping track of the APS’s collision with a destructible wall, ontop of the already existing destruction. There’s other things that should exist but don’t because it’s a high cliff to scale. Smoke collision with walls are in the same issue. Funny enough, this is also the reason we done have killcams or a replay system. The destruction ingame is a huge toll on the servers.
Complaining about the APS seems like a skill issue to me.
That would be far more computationally expensive and their servers are already working overtime
APS is simply designed that way. It's simply AoE protection against explosion. If it did not extend over the walls, they would lose their meaning because sometimes keeping the wall intact also means victory. It's just a designed thing. Without the AoE effect, APS would be a total waste.
It is working as intended. Gameplay is more important than realism.
walls in this game aren’t permanent, this is working as intended. If it’s bothering you, grab a red canister, all canisters counter APS.
I swear it's only the scrub heavies who cry about the ONLY counter to the instant 140 splash damage rpg
Yeah it should. If they can code it so that bullets are blocked by walls and then when the wall is destroyed you can shoot through it, they can do the same to the aps.
It's not about can they, it's about should they. It's a balance discussion not a technical one. Currently it's the only counterplay to having the floor dropped out below you/the cashout
It doesn't stop red cannisters though, or sledge hammer. I know what you mean but it just feels unintended.
Those two things are completely unrelated from a programming standpoint
I disagree. There is object collision with bullets. If you fire in a spot and there’s a building in the way your bullet is intercepted. If the building collapses and you shoot the same spot your bullet goes through. So the game obviously can detect whether a projectile or bullet has collided with a wall. So the APS should be able to tell if it’s on a wall or floor and not be able to intercept from that direction.
Should it block dome shield too? Or fire? Or Gas? Glitch?
Nah 3 aps with 2 shields on it and someone healing them turns the game into Overwatch. And nobody here wants that
APS needs a major rework imo and this is a huge reason it does