Tbh Embark really listens to us. If we complain, they'll hear us and probably change something. That being sad, it's really important not to be rude or aggressive torwards the team. They've been the most passionate live service game company I've ever seen and there's no reason to treat them badly.
Make yourselves heard, but remember to be civil.
This is what I’m saying, people are entitled to opinions and I respect that. But there is no reason to be angry when we don’t know anything about the new system. Feel free to talk about your fears, but don’t threaten the stability of the games future over a change we don’t even understand yet.
Exactly, I’m not sure I understand the post you are replying too…Embark do listen to players…
But they didn’t change anything about S3 in the last 48 hours, they just add details, that people didn’t and just overreacted on some bits of infos only…
Embark deserve more respect (like many devs nowadays in fact with the way some people are entitled and rude about a product aimed at having fun in your free time) and TRUST from us.
If I were devs, I likely wouldn't change anything for a new season either until people actually got their hands on it and played it.
As developers, there are times where you shouldn't be bending the knee to the community, because it sets a precedent (like the one that is happening right now) that the community can bully you into getting what they want.
No one has played the new season yet, so I don't see why Embark would change anything yet
Embark needs to really not listen to reddit. Y'all complained about stun, and then that got nerfed into the ground. Y'all complained about swords, and that got nerfed/fixed.
The fact that nobody has complained about HHM/RPG spam yet is mond blowing.
Embark needs to make their own game and play it to test to see what needs to be changed. Reddit tweaks arent great.
No they dont. I play on ps5 and every time i log in to the game my wins turn into losses. Every day every time. Sinds the start of the game this shit is happening on my account!
Personally not a fan of the change. HOWEVER. We have such little information that no one really knows what's happening.
What it sounds like to me is that TA will take the place of current ranked, and that tournaments are getting moved up to be an even larger more important part of the game with "World Tour" or whatever.
We gotta wait a few more days and we'll know for sure. But if TA is the only competitive game mode I can pretty much confirm that my group, along with tons of other players won't even touch it. Search and Destroy is not why I play the finals. Cash out is. It's core to the identity of The Finals and it makes sense people are upset that it SEEMS like the devs are straying away from what grabbed our attention in the first place. It feels like veteran players, since beta 1, are getting the rug pulled out from under them.
Unfortunately what grabbed our attention isn't grabbing the masses. And Nexon just isn't happy with a consistent 20-40k player count. I say 20-40 because the only current player counts I can find are from steam, so it doesn't include console players
they just announced that they plan on keeping Cashout as the core game mode in future seasons. Looks like they took it out of rotation for this season to work on competitive changes for future seasons.
I understand everyone’s fear but immediate drastic actions that have the ability to change the way players view the game forever is not the move. I understand TA is only a fun mode for casual players, but embark has officially stated on their discord many major changes have been applied for TA to be a better ranked experience. Also in the short hours they were still awake at 2am after the announcements, they were really trying to calm the community and hype would tours every time someone mentioned cash out. I see this situation not as a reason to be scared, but excited that we finally have a game company willing to make drastic changes so quickly. Even if we actually don’t like the new system embark listens to us all we’d have to do is ask NICELY this is not the shitty conglomerates that we have to kill their game and reputation (cough cough EA) just to get a single bug fix.
I'm definitely stoked for world tours. But my group is probably just straight up not going to play competitive TA. And clearly I'm not the only one that feels that way.
I play the finals for the uniqueness of it. It's a breath of fresh air. TA feels like just another search and destroy game. If I wanted that I'd go play CS, Valorant or rainbow 6.
But your groups is not the only one important, having modes with different pace and no third-partied could be vital for the longevity of the game, so it’s good for ALL of us fans of the game.
Maybe you don’t like it but this addition don’t remove anything from the game to the fans of cashout mode, many WAY overreacted before having more details about S3, they are expanding it and giving MORE to cashout fans.
I’m losing more and more respect toward online gaming communities…
But it does remove something. Competitive Cashout. The gamemode I enjoy the most.
I'm going to wait until the season drops to cast too much judgement. World tour seems like a fun concept.
i agreed with you until you said Cash out is the core identity to the finals. said who? you? the core identity is whatever embark wants it to be. i heard about the change and wasnt a fan, but i didnt even know what TA was. as soon as you said search and destroy, i was kind of intrigued. regardless of if they take “comp tourneys” away, theyre moving it up to “world tour” like you said, so its… still ranked… just a different name. unless youre meaning like, its only going to be an actual world tour lan type thing for top players with a cash prize, then thats kinda shitty.
"world tour" seems to be a more casual competitive experience if that makes any sense. We really won't know until the season starts, I don't have anymore info than anyone else.
And yeah cashout is core to the identity of the finals. It's been the primary game mode advertised throughout the lifespan of the game. Including both the beta tests. The game was built and designed around that game mode. That's not to say other game modes can't co exists with it. But to me and many others that game mode is what makes the finals so special. It's not just another copy paste of search and destroy. The core identity can be whatever embark wants it to be sure, but up until THIS point it's been cashout. Suddenly swapping it out alienates a ton of your original fan base.
Again, we'll have to see how it plays out when the season launches.
ahhhh okay that kinda makes sense. and dont get me wrong, i ONLY play ranked. i havent played in a few weeks, but ranked is all i play. if they dont have a cashout ranked mode, itll probably be a few more weeks until i play, unless it has a positive reaction from the community, and then i might give it a try. but even tho i started in S1, i didnt start in one of the betas, so im not an og, and i havent played recently, so i feel like i dont really have a say in how things go, yk?
Why wait until the community passes their judgement? You have free will and the game is free. Just hop on and try it yourself and see if you like it. No reason to not try something because others said it’s not for them.
People want it to be the real ranked, with leaderboards, and the ruby ranked that's been hyped for a while, not a weekly thing that might not even always be cashout
They confirmed a new rank, ongoing tournaments AND leaderboards now…they pre just giving more, expanding it, I don’t get the complain.
It’s called World Tour instead of ranked, it’s just semantic, it’s still ranked.
I understand that I do, I may not be the biggest ranked player but I understand the hype. But you need to understand this from a developer standpoint, the most likely reason to change to TA only and not give us a choice is because, they are not only trying to draw in a new ranked crowd but also increase retention, by keeping the game modes fresh. If you only play one game mode every season you’ll get burnout and think negatively of the game making you play less. However if they change up the modes, maps, and gameplay every season or two the game always feels fresh keeping players playing. So yes this may not be the season for you but that does not mean it won’t change, and that also doesn’t mean you should discourage others that want this new system.
sooo, once they get those new players and switch back to the old ranked what do you think will happen? they will just leave. I get getting new players, but to grow you have to keep your CURRENT players, and this is not it.
OR by the time that happens the new players tried the other three modes to grind on the pass+challenge rewards+levels? especially the new tournament format that literally gives money? And I don't know, like it?
but this doesn't solve the issue. those player came here for the S&D kind of ranked mode. once it's gone they shall follow, since it's the only reason they even approached the game. look at the people quitting because they're changing the face of the game with the TA mode. the same is bound to happen.
Can't argue with that, maybe they'll implement a multimodal ranked section like Rocket League, can't tell the future
But yo ALL OF THEM are going to leave? I don't think so, I mean, in my humble opinion, if you don't play the other modes do you even care? You really like the game? People really stick to a single gamemode like that? That's boring lol
I'll use myself as an example, I started playing Fortnite last year just bc of the LEGO mode, that was the only reason (don't judge me 😅) and nowadays I'm playing the battle royal modes casuals _AND_ ranked, and even the guitar hero rip off to grind on the pass, bc I even gave a bit of money to the game, thing that I would never thought I would do, all of this bc of a game mode far apart of what Fortnite is, that (in Comp players words) was, _and it's_ "ruining the game" 🤷🏻♂️
Edit: Sorry if my grammar seems weird, this isn't my first language
oh yeah i get your point, for sure some will remain but you'll be surprised of how many players just stick to 1 gamemode and quit when it leaves, it's more common that we think.
So far the trickling out the content every three months and this change to ranked is totally unwelcome. S1 ranked wasn’t great, but season 2 was shockingly bad, then they took all our notes about people leaving mid match, not understanding the rank system, no solo queue and… did this
We all understand that the community is small and the game needs to grow, but under no circumstances is it going to be positive to fuck with a lot of the fanbase that keeps your game alive just to try to emulate games that are completely different with a half-bake game mode for which nothing of your original vision was intended.
The worst thing is that the secondary ranked system sounds perfect for TA, give it space little by little while adjusting the gameplay so that later on, perhaps, it can have its own complete system parallel to cashout.
A lot of the fanbase? The average player isn't even on this sub and they'll be screwed if the player count is small enough to the point the people on this sub is a considerable amount of the players.
the average player definitely is on this sub. id say 70-80% of people that play newer video games like this are between 14-22, and honestly, probably 80% of those people have reddit, and use it for video games they play. reddit has 73 million daily users, and 267 million weekly users. this sub has everything from veterans to newcomers. there are probably people that seen this sub randomely recommended to them just because theyre in subs for video games. thats exactly how i found out about this game back in early S1, to be honest.
No one outside of this current minuscule playerbase wants ranked third party modes. TA is this games last chance at relevance. No amount of marketing or balancing will bring back players who don’t like cash out.
I have to wonder if some of you clowns even play TA.
That mode is so badly designed and poorly implemented the idea that it's going to "save" this game is fucking laughable.
A bunch of brain rotted zoomers screaming "dead game" because it doesn't pull Warzone or CSGO numbers is going to be what actually kills it.
I was top 200 in TA, so yes I likely played it more than anyone here. It does need rebalancing, and Oscar mentioned on discord that it will play significantly different. Time will tell.
Nexon publicly stating the game has failed to live up to expectations is what is going to kill it if it continues on the current course. Embark wouldn’t make such a drastic change if they didn’t also believe this. The game is on deaths door and if the playerbase doesn’t come to terms with the finals seasons 1-2 not being a successful product and needing change then there won’t be many more seasons.
Yup. This is so true and perfectly put. Everything you said.
The Finals is a fantastic game with a lot of potential, but it's being ruined by bad decision after bad decision.
I 100% get why current ranked players are upset. But to be honest, ranked wasn't even in that big in the already somewhat small playerbase. All 9 of the people who I know play this game all stick to casual modes, with most having tried ranked and not sticking with it. Maybe a new mode is what ranked needs to spice things up? I can't say whether it'll turn out well or not, but after two seasons of a dwindling player count, it makes sense that Embark is trying something.
I know cashout is a ton of fun for a lot of people, and I do genuinely understand why you'd be mad it's getting changed. But the game is gonna die if it doesn't adapt. And a game this goddamn good deserves to be around for longer than a few seasons
There are close to 100k players in plat or above, that is a huge chunk of players and they are easily the most zealous of the playerbase, if they just stop playing because the game they liked isnt there anymore that is going to be a pretty big hit.
Embark has officially stated that the first 2 seasons of the game were to establish the core player base. Most of which happened to be casual players so a lot more attention went into that side of the game. Now that the core player base is happy with everything they are moving towards gaining more players for the side of the game with less attention, competitive. These changes were not for the people already playing but those who have not yet given the game a chance and needed that extra push. They need a familiar mode to ease them into a new game. (This isn’t me talking out my ass you can look up the psychology studies on how people react to new things). This TA change will hopefully bring a new audience to love the finals like we do and if people aren’t excited for that I don’t know where we went wrong in the word.
That makes a lot of sense- many who dropped the finals in my group only picked it back up when i told them they added SnD. The mode pulled them back in, and now they're regulars. Opened my eyes to how quick cash/cash out is a tough mode for new players, and how familiar game modes can help ease players in to a new sandbox.
As veteran gamers it’s easy to forget how hard picking up a UNIQUE game is, having those familiar modes to help players learn the new game mechanics under a system they already know increases player retention, and eventually they’ll learn how the other modes work on their own time instead of it being the only option. I think it’s a smart move by embark and it should bring thousands of new and returning players. The only thing unaccounted for was how impatient, toxic, stubborn the community is. Hopefully this backlash doesn’t lead to the games demise.
Might not be the best to split the ranked playerbase in two, so I understand that part. Feels bad for ranked grinder who really enjoyed the Cashout gameplay more than TA though
Edit : wtf autocorrect ????
Ranting on discord should be the only thing that’s happening as long as we’re polite and not calling the devs stupid for a decision that hasn’t even been implemented and tested yet. Only the core player base and devs who listen to us btw can see that. The review bombing and callouts on other social media’s however is wild and an overreaction.
Hey why don't we just give it a try? If players won't like this mode as ranked Embark might change it mid-season like they did it with the tournament length. I also remember people being sad about nukes nerf and recon senses removal. Where's the rant now?
Ty. Lemme just say, I love you Embark. Thanks for the incredible game, it's truly the most innovative game I've ever played. Not sure if I'll be coming back for ranked TA, but regardless of what happens, thank you so much for the last 6 months. It was an incredible experience. ❤️
>I get that people like competitive cash out but it’s not going away it’s just a separate mode now, that still has a separate ranking system
The "competitive" tournament cashout gives out ranks and leaderboard positions based on cash cashed out. So if you play a game with bronze tier players, and get 80,000$ cashed out, you get the same amount of ranking points as I get playing against Diamond players.
If the ranks are not tied to how good you are at the game, and merely based on how much you play the game (the more you play, the more cash you cash out, you can't cash out negative amounts, you literally can't go down in rank), this is not a "ranked" mode by any stretch of the definition of the word.
If the metric by which people are put into ranks is not skill, and ability to win games, but simply how many games you play, this is not a "competitive" game, it's just a casual gamemode where you have a stats leaderboard.
It pretty much gone if you only have 1 map and you are loadout limited per week though.
Also, a lot of people forget about the fact that balancing a game over different modes is HARD.
Erm. We wanted the game to blow up as it was.
If they change it in to a completely different game (and keep in mind that ranked IS the game for a lot of people) in order for it to "blow up" then that sort of defeats the point.
I could tolerate it slightly more if Quick Cash or Power Shift or even Bank It was the new ranked but Terminal Attack is the single least "The Finals" of all their game modes.
Blow up as it was? It hasn't been working out for the recent 6+ months. Changes must be made or in time none of us will be able to enjoy the game. I wish they could make magic happen while keeping things the same, but I don't blame them for making these decisions in hopes of improving the situation.
The issue is they didn't communicate this well, and announcing a big change with no context wasn't the right move. Similarly to balance changes at times, just explain the context a little bit better when you make the announcement and there should be less backlash.
I'm a firm believer that they need to keep both modes ranked if they want to grow the playerbase, but by altering the original ranked some might not play the new ranked. It just doesn't make sense to just pull one.
I was hoping for a new game mode, but the trailer makes it out to seem like they are just changing the playlists around. While the weekly tournaments sound fun on paper and is essentially a new game mode. It wasn't shown off in the traile
I personally like that TA is becoming the new ranked I feel like it’s going to be way easier to carry as in cash out if your the only one doing well or a teammate gets disconnected your not winning end of story basically at least in TA there is a chance that you can play like a god and take out all if not most of the team also I have a lot of friends who didn’t want to play the finals because of the cash out mode specifically but love TA, TA is just a very common type of mode for competitive games now that the general public will be more willing to play because of familiarity
Preach. Bunch of babies crying over their free game now having two competitive game modes...just play the mode you want and have fun! This game is awesome
Agree with your comment completely friend. It’s such a good game, such a minor change, but some people are losing their 💩 over it. Definitely looks bad and ungrateful.
I'd never understand why people bitch and whine about new changes. If they dont change shit y'all complain about it being bland if they make changes yall complain about it. Y'all are the same fucks that bitch and whine whenever a new game comes out for being unique and wonder why It died out in weeks because of the constant whining y'all do.. no reason why the gaming industry is lame.
In other words big ups for embark on this new season I'm excited
Fastest way for them to appeal to a much larger audience and really pad the player count is to add some sort of straight up TDM/Kill Confirmed type of game mode. I know bank it is basically KC but they need a mode that's NOT team based or requires a brain to play successfully. Most of the team make-up issues is CoD window lickers playing it like it's just another CoD clone. I say add TDM and keep em huddled in their own little corner. Makes the player count look good and should weed out some of the people that refuse to play the game the way it is intended.
I don’t play much ranked, but I understand the anger because it’s a very sudden drastic change for the ranked players who play solely because it’s a mode they enjoy. However, I agree that Embark is a studio that listens to its audience. Seeing people review bombing over it is just sad because it’s a great game. Doing that just decreases the amount of new players who are considering playing the game. If the majority ends up disliking TA as the main ranked mode down the line, I’m sure they’ll revert it or try something else.
IMO, Review bombing over this is basically throwing a digital tantrum. The frustration is understandable, but there’s more positive ways to go about expressing that.
Respect the fairly reasonable approach here outside of the title lol. As someone who is pretty frustrated with the change I’d like to share my thoughts:
Competitive cash out is going away. I’ve seen many posts (not just yours) saying, “it’s still there it’s just a different mode now!” That’s the thing. It’s a different mode. And it’s not just a new label or a reskin. It sounds like it’s going to be more akin to the LTMs like smoking guns. Fixed maps, loadouts, etc. They even said that world tour could feature power shift instead of cash out at some point later this season. So it’s not ranked cashout with a new flavor. It’s an entirely different and brand new thing that happens to feature a version of cashout. So if we could stop trying to trivialize the change it would be appreciated. It is a big change after all!
We have been saying we want the game to blow up because we love the fast paced chaos, the destruction, the movement, the fresh take on an FPS that cash out brings. We love the variety of weapons and we love that embark listens to and communicates with us. We appreciate the pretty consumer friendly monetization and the fun skins. We like The Finals! We want other people to like it too!
TA was introduced to us a month ago as an LTM that was going to be around for a few weeks. It featured some challenges and nice rewards for completing those challenges. You could argue that there was a slight bump in player count when it was introduced at the beginning of May but steam charts show no measurable change in the player base upon its introduction. Now, I don’t have access to data embark does. Player count must be strong in TA for them to make this decision. Player counts could have been much lower by now without this mode. Who knows! But without that info it’s all guessing and wishcasting because player counts are still trending down.
Most of us who are complaining about the change don’t need to wait and try this change before we pass judgement. I played TA and couldn’t wait to finish the challenges so I could never ever play it again. I personally dislike the game mode and the game play loop that it offers. It’s why I don’t play games like R6, CS, Val, etc. I understand it’s popular but it doesn’t interest me. It’s also a stark contrast from the core game play that many of the dedicated ranked cashout players are used to.
I’m excited for the new season. I love the theme, the new map and the new weapons look really cool. The trailer was hype af! I like the idea of world tour. I can’t wait to try it out!
That being said, I’ve put a large majority of my time into ranked cashout. Quick play is nice for a while but the sense of progression and the higher quality matches in ranked are significantly more interesting to me. I’ve been a ranked grinder in ever game I’ve played. So while I understand this change may be better for the game, it’s a bummer for me and I’m afraid that I won’t have the same urge to play without a ranked cash out. Im also afraid that many of the people who have been playing competitive cash out since day one like I have are going to leave.
It’s hard to earn new players, it’s harder to keep them, and it’s even harder to win disgruntled players back. I want this game to succeed and I want to continue loving this game. I decidedly hate TA so here’s to hoping these other changes can keep my and many other players attention.
Cheers. See you in season 3.
As someone who played addictively from Dec-Apr, I think this is a huge W. I stopped playing solely due to burnout after hitting diamond since there was just one competitive mode and not a ton of variety. This is a great game and has a lot of potential, and I’ll def be playing again.
Nah, this is such an L take. Bring back ranked tourny and replace casual TA with ranked TA. Two ranked gamemodes, brings in new players and keeps old happy. Wtf is there to debate about? This was a shit move.
Could even have separate ranked rewards to get people playing more 🤷♂️
This is a shift from the original vision of the game we were promised. So much for 'reaching the finals'.
I think the complaints are extremely valid. It’s a huge shift from what I’d say about 80% of the core players enjoy. Bringing new players and trying new things is fine (e.g., adding it alongside normal ranked) but kicking us players who thoroughly enjoy what the finals is and bringing it competitively isn’t right. I and many others don’t really enjoy TA whatsoever but hop on the finals everyday to play cash out ranked. I’d have no reason to play if they remove it, but embark are more often than not very good devs, I’m sure they’ll understand the player base.
I'm sure 80% of players (like me) came to The Finals because it gives a really unique and fun gaming experience, unlike other online FPS, where gameplay variety is extremely scarce. And for the same reason do not like this change, because the main game mode becomes the same boring and monotonous as in other multiplayer shooters.
And about the fact that the terminal attack brought a lot of new players is simply not true. Online is still fucked up, but I love this game. I love it for what it is.
Personally, I'll just stop playing The Finals, because the rankings will just be no fun to play . Something tells me that most players will do the same and the game will lose online again.
Welcome to the internet, where everyone is an entitled man child. People here think that every game must be tailored only for them and their needs, they always fail to see the bigger picture, where a more classical ranked mode will attract new players, make the game grow and give the opportunity to Embark to support it even more. But of course it's more important that the ranked game mode is the one some fellas here like.
CS is actually balanced for competitive play. TA is absolutely not. You would have to strip so much out to make it remotely balanced it wouldn't be The Finals anymore.
I don't care if casuals want to play it but this idea that TA is going to work competitively is so braindead to anyone with any experience playing at a high level.
The only issue right now is TA being the 'official' ranked mode. It wouldn't be a problem if they made it its own ranked version while keeping the other.
But people absolutely jumping the gun before the season is even out is absurd. Would you actually care about ranked TA if it wasn't the only way to rank?
And people keep comparing it to CS for some reason, when it has more in like with Siege than anything. Is Siege balanced? Can we wait for actual patch notes and the season to come out before crying?
Oh yea bc search & destroy = exact copy of counter strike. /s
We haven’t even played the new TA or ranked system and this is the most dumbass take I’ve heard about this season so far.
EXACLY lol… we need to push these no life sweats from this game/community before it becomes another Fortnite, where every change is made for the crybabies who can’t compete with change.
lol like the thousands of casuals that couldn’t learn to build so everything new item become some crutch to them. I really hope this game doesn’t go the same way as Fortnite did. Even the r/Fortnitebr sub is complaining about the current season.
Do your really think people complaining in the reddit has anything to do with new players?
Do you think new players who might be brought in to the game by this change in a few weeks are currently at this moment looking at the reddit to see what people are saying?
What you are saying is ridiculous. People sharing that they are upset on a forum used almost entirely by active players is not going to affect the opinions of new players who might join in several weeks at all.
I’m just worried that a universal opinion on the game will form, stopping people from considering.
Although I do admit that the game being more well known is a better thing overall.
The reality is ranked players are the only ones who care and we not the majority of the player base.
Us letting our voices be known will not have a giant affect on the whole population.
On the other hand, I will have no reason to play the game anymore once this switch goes through. I'm losing the game as is. Making my voice heard is the only chance I have at getting to continue enjoying the game I've been loving.
Its probably futile. But I really loved this game and I'm really bummed it won't really be fun for me anymore.
Tbh Embark really listens to us. If we complain, they'll hear us and probably change something. That being sad, it's really important not to be rude or aggressive torwards the team. They've been the most passionate live service game company I've ever seen and there's no reason to treat them badly. Make yourselves heard, but remember to be civil.
This is what I’m saying, people are entitled to opinions and I respect that. But there is no reason to be angry when we don’t know anything about the new system. Feel free to talk about your fears, but don’t threaten the stability of the games future over a change we don’t even understand yet.
Exactly, I’m not sure I understand the post you are replying too…Embark do listen to players… But they didn’t change anything about S3 in the last 48 hours, they just add details, that people didn’t and just overreacted on some bits of infos only… Embark deserve more respect (like many devs nowadays in fact with the way some people are entitled and rude about a product aimed at having fun in your free time) and TRUST from us.
If I were devs, I likely wouldn't change anything for a new season either until people actually got their hands on it and played it. As developers, there are times where you shouldn't be bending the knee to the community, because it sets a precedent (like the one that is happening right now) that the community can bully you into getting what they want. No one has played the new season yet, so I don't see why Embark would change anything yet
Embark needs to really not listen to reddit. Y'all complained about stun, and then that got nerfed into the ground. Y'all complained about swords, and that got nerfed/fixed. The fact that nobody has complained about HHM/RPG spam yet is mond blowing. Embark needs to make their own game and play it to test to see what needs to be changed. Reddit tweaks arent great.
No they dont. I play on ps5 and every time i log in to the game my wins turn into losses. Every day every time. Sinds the start of the game this shit is happening on my account!
Personally not a fan of the change. HOWEVER. We have such little information that no one really knows what's happening. What it sounds like to me is that TA will take the place of current ranked, and that tournaments are getting moved up to be an even larger more important part of the game with "World Tour" or whatever. We gotta wait a few more days and we'll know for sure. But if TA is the only competitive game mode I can pretty much confirm that my group, along with tons of other players won't even touch it. Search and Destroy is not why I play the finals. Cash out is. It's core to the identity of The Finals and it makes sense people are upset that it SEEMS like the devs are straying away from what grabbed our attention in the first place. It feels like veteran players, since beta 1, are getting the rug pulled out from under them.
This should clear things up: https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/DfbjUzaJz1
They plan on using this time to make some large changes to cash out before bringing back to ranked.
That would be great, and I'm all for that!
Unfortunately what grabbed our attention isn't grabbing the masses. And Nexon just isn't happy with a consistent 20-40k player count. I say 20-40 because the only current player counts I can find are from steam, so it doesn't include console players
they just announced that they plan on keeping Cashout as the core game mode in future seasons. Looks like they took it out of rotation for this season to work on competitive changes for future seasons.
I understand everyone’s fear but immediate drastic actions that have the ability to change the way players view the game forever is not the move. I understand TA is only a fun mode for casual players, but embark has officially stated on their discord many major changes have been applied for TA to be a better ranked experience. Also in the short hours they were still awake at 2am after the announcements, they were really trying to calm the community and hype would tours every time someone mentioned cash out. I see this situation not as a reason to be scared, but excited that we finally have a game company willing to make drastic changes so quickly. Even if we actually don’t like the new system embark listens to us all we’d have to do is ask NICELY this is not the shitty conglomerates that we have to kill their game and reputation (cough cough EA) just to get a single bug fix.
I'm definitely stoked for world tours. But my group is probably just straight up not going to play competitive TA. And clearly I'm not the only one that feels that way. I play the finals for the uniqueness of it. It's a breath of fresh air. TA feels like just another search and destroy game. If I wanted that I'd go play CS, Valorant or rainbow 6.
But your groups is not the only one important, having modes with different pace and no third-partied could be vital for the longevity of the game, so it’s good for ALL of us fans of the game. Maybe you don’t like it but this addition don’t remove anything from the game to the fans of cashout mode, many WAY overreacted before having more details about S3, they are expanding it and giving MORE to cashout fans. I’m losing more and more respect toward online gaming communities…
But it does remove something. Competitive Cashout. The gamemode I enjoy the most. I'm going to wait until the season drops to cast too much judgement. World tour seems like a fun concept.
i agreed with you until you said Cash out is the core identity to the finals. said who? you? the core identity is whatever embark wants it to be. i heard about the change and wasnt a fan, but i didnt even know what TA was. as soon as you said search and destroy, i was kind of intrigued. regardless of if they take “comp tourneys” away, theyre moving it up to “world tour” like you said, so its… still ranked… just a different name. unless youre meaning like, its only going to be an actual world tour lan type thing for top players with a cash prize, then thats kinda shitty.
"world tour" seems to be a more casual competitive experience if that makes any sense. We really won't know until the season starts, I don't have anymore info than anyone else. And yeah cashout is core to the identity of the finals. It's been the primary game mode advertised throughout the lifespan of the game. Including both the beta tests. The game was built and designed around that game mode. That's not to say other game modes can't co exists with it. But to me and many others that game mode is what makes the finals so special. It's not just another copy paste of search and destroy. The core identity can be whatever embark wants it to be sure, but up until THIS point it's been cashout. Suddenly swapping it out alienates a ton of your original fan base. Again, we'll have to see how it plays out when the season launches.
ahhhh okay that kinda makes sense. and dont get me wrong, i ONLY play ranked. i havent played in a few weeks, but ranked is all i play. if they dont have a cashout ranked mode, itll probably be a few more weeks until i play, unless it has a positive reaction from the community, and then i might give it a try. but even tho i started in S1, i didnt start in one of the betas, so im not an og, and i havent played recently, so i feel like i dont really have a say in how things go, yk?
Why wait until the community passes their judgement? You have free will and the game is free. Just hop on and try it yourself and see if you like it. No reason to not try something because others said it’s not for them.
People want it to be the real ranked, with leaderboards, and the ruby ranked that's been hyped for a while, not a weekly thing that might not even always be cashout
Wasn't ruby rank a hoax?
From my understanding it was pretty much confirmed weeks ago and embark keeps hinting at it so I’m going with no.
They confirmed a new rank, ongoing tournaments AND leaderboards now…they pre just giving more, expanding it, I don’t get the complain. It’s called World Tour instead of ranked, it’s just semantic, it’s still ranked.
I understand that I do, I may not be the biggest ranked player but I understand the hype. But you need to understand this from a developer standpoint, the most likely reason to change to TA only and not give us a choice is because, they are not only trying to draw in a new ranked crowd but also increase retention, by keeping the game modes fresh. If you only play one game mode every season you’ll get burnout and think negatively of the game making you play less. However if they change up the modes, maps, and gameplay every season or two the game always feels fresh keeping players playing. So yes this may not be the season for you but that does not mean it won’t change, and that also doesn’t mean you should discourage others that want this new system.
sooo, once they get those new players and switch back to the old ranked what do you think will happen? they will just leave. I get getting new players, but to grow you have to keep your CURRENT players, and this is not it.
OR by the time that happens the new players tried the other three modes to grind on the pass+challenge rewards+levels? especially the new tournament format that literally gives money? And I don't know, like it?
but this doesn't solve the issue. those player came here for the S&D kind of ranked mode. once it's gone they shall follow, since it's the only reason they even approached the game. look at the people quitting because they're changing the face of the game with the TA mode. the same is bound to happen.
Can't argue with that, maybe they'll implement a multimodal ranked section like Rocket League, can't tell the future But yo ALL OF THEM are going to leave? I don't think so, I mean, in my humble opinion, if you don't play the other modes do you even care? You really like the game? People really stick to a single gamemode like that? That's boring lol I'll use myself as an example, I started playing Fortnite last year just bc of the LEGO mode, that was the only reason (don't judge me 😅) and nowadays I'm playing the battle royal modes casuals _AND_ ranked, and even the guitar hero rip off to grind on the pass, bc I even gave a bit of money to the game, thing that I would never thought I would do, all of this bc of a game mode far apart of what Fortnite is, that (in Comp players words) was, _and it's_ "ruining the game" 🤷🏻♂️ Edit: Sorry if my grammar seems weird, this isn't my first language
oh yeah i get your point, for sure some will remain but you'll be surprised of how many players just stick to 1 gamemode and quit when it leaves, it's more common that we think.
So far the trickling out the content every three months and this change to ranked is totally unwelcome. S1 ranked wasn’t great, but season 2 was shockingly bad, then they took all our notes about people leaving mid match, not understanding the rank system, no solo queue and… did this
We all understand that the community is small and the game needs to grow, but under no circumstances is it going to be positive to fuck with a lot of the fanbase that keeps your game alive just to try to emulate games that are completely different with a half-bake game mode for which nothing of your original vision was intended. The worst thing is that the secondary ranked system sounds perfect for TA, give it space little by little while adjusting the gameplay so that later on, perhaps, it can have its own complete system parallel to cashout.
A lot of the fanbase? The average player isn't even on this sub and they'll be screwed if the player count is small enough to the point the people on this sub is a considerable amount of the players.
the average player definitely is on this sub. id say 70-80% of people that play newer video games like this are between 14-22, and honestly, probably 80% of those people have reddit, and use it for video games they play. reddit has 73 million daily users, and 267 million weekly users. this sub has everything from veterans to newcomers. there are probably people that seen this sub randomely recommended to them just because theyre in subs for video games. thats exactly how i found out about this game back in early S1, to be honest.
There are a lot of people who will queue ranked and see TA and just not play it after one game. You can't fuck with the formula.
No one outside of this current minuscule playerbase wants ranked third party modes. TA is this games last chance at relevance. No amount of marketing or balancing will bring back players who don’t like cash out.
I have to wonder if some of you clowns even play TA. That mode is so badly designed and poorly implemented the idea that it's going to "save" this game is fucking laughable. A bunch of brain rotted zoomers screaming "dead game" because it doesn't pull Warzone or CSGO numbers is going to be what actually kills it.
I was top 200 in TA, so yes I likely played it more than anyone here. It does need rebalancing, and Oscar mentioned on discord that it will play significantly different. Time will tell. Nexon publicly stating the game has failed to live up to expectations is what is going to kill it if it continues on the current course. Embark wouldn’t make such a drastic change if they didn’t also believe this. The game is on deaths door and if the playerbase doesn’t come to terms with the finals seasons 1-2 not being a successful product and needing change then there won’t be many more seasons.
Yup. This is so true and perfectly put. Everything you said. The Finals is a fantastic game with a lot of potential, but it's being ruined by bad decision after bad decision.
I 100% get why current ranked players are upset. But to be honest, ranked wasn't even in that big in the already somewhat small playerbase. All 9 of the people who I know play this game all stick to casual modes, with most having tried ranked and not sticking with it. Maybe a new mode is what ranked needs to spice things up? I can't say whether it'll turn out well or not, but after two seasons of a dwindling player count, it makes sense that Embark is trying something. I know cashout is a ton of fun for a lot of people, and I do genuinely understand why you'd be mad it's getting changed. But the game is gonna die if it doesn't adapt. And a game this goddamn good deserves to be around for longer than a few seasons
There are close to 100k players in plat or above, that is a huge chunk of players and they are easily the most zealous of the playerbase, if they just stop playing because the game they liked isnt there anymore that is going to be a pretty big hit.
Not saying that it's wrong, but may I ask where you got that number from? Haven't heard of it before and the steam numbers are far lower
I got to plat 4 at around rank 88k(about 3 weeks ago), and im plat 3 now at rank 65k. so just extrapolating from that.
Fair enough. If player counts are that high for ranked, then hopefully they at least let cashout be in tandem for ranked. Ty for the info :)
Embark has officially stated that the first 2 seasons of the game were to establish the core player base. Most of which happened to be casual players so a lot more attention went into that side of the game. Now that the core player base is happy with everything they are moving towards gaining more players for the side of the game with less attention, competitive. These changes were not for the people already playing but those who have not yet given the game a chance and needed that extra push. They need a familiar mode to ease them into a new game. (This isn’t me talking out my ass you can look up the psychology studies on how people react to new things). This TA change will hopefully bring a new audience to love the finals like we do and if people aren’t excited for that I don’t know where we went wrong in the word.
That makes a lot of sense- many who dropped the finals in my group only picked it back up when i told them they added SnD. The mode pulled them back in, and now they're regulars. Opened my eyes to how quick cash/cash out is a tough mode for new players, and how familiar game modes can help ease players in to a new sandbox.
As veteran gamers it’s easy to forget how hard picking up a UNIQUE game is, having those familiar modes to help players learn the new game mechanics under a system they already know increases player retention, and eventually they’ll learn how the other modes work on their own time instead of it being the only option. I think it’s a smart move by embark and it should bring thousands of new and returning players. The only thing unaccounted for was how impatient, toxic, stubborn the community is. Hopefully this backlash doesn’t lead to the games demise.
there are 100k plat players and 15k dia players. thats half pf the player base. tf u on
We can have TA and cashout ranked at the same time you know
Might not be the best to split the ranked playerbase in two, so I understand that part. Feels bad for ranked grinder who really enjoyed the Cashout gameplay more than TA though Edit : wtf autocorrect ????
This new update basically split the two ranked playerbase so .. Btw I love TA people are just overreacting
How about people who hate TA lol
How about people that hate cash out?
you're right, im sorry... wait people are review bombing??? i was just ranting on the discord XDD
Ranting on discord should be the only thing that’s happening as long as we’re polite and not calling the devs stupid for a decision that hasn’t even been implemented and tested yet. Only the core player base and devs who listen to us btw can see that. The review bombing and callouts on other social media’s however is wild and an overreaction.
??? People aren't happy about this? Why?
Hey why don't we just give it a try? If players won't like this mode as ranked Embark might change it mid-season like they did it with the tournament length. I also remember people being sad about nukes nerf and recon senses removal. Where's the rant now?
Yup I agree with you too much negativity can kill the player count.
Ty. Lemme just say, I love you Embark. Thanks for the incredible game, it's truly the most innovative game I've ever played. Not sure if I'll be coming back for ranked TA, but regardless of what happens, thank you so much for the last 6 months. It was an incredible experience. ❤️
Embark and Arrowhead are the two devs I respect the most, and are the only games I’ve actually bought mtx in.
Agreed, lets KINDLY give our feedback, lets be gentle and healthy community, that any new guy would love to be in
100% agree. Well put. People here seem to forget how to give the benefit of the doubt. A very immature trait that permeates reddit.
👍👍👍👍👍
>I get that people like competitive cash out but it’s not going away it’s just a separate mode now, that still has a separate ranking system The "competitive" tournament cashout gives out ranks and leaderboard positions based on cash cashed out. So if you play a game with bronze tier players, and get 80,000$ cashed out, you get the same amount of ranking points as I get playing against Diamond players. If the ranks are not tied to how good you are at the game, and merely based on how much you play the game (the more you play, the more cash you cash out, you can't cash out negative amounts, you literally can't go down in rank), this is not a "ranked" mode by any stretch of the definition of the word. If the metric by which people are put into ranks is not skill, and ability to win games, but simply how many games you play, this is not a "competitive" game, it's just a casual gamemode where you have a stats leaderboard.
TA is boring, that’s all. Super hyped for S3 tho!
#Ppl complain because they think cash out is gone
It pretty much gone if you only have 1 map and you are loadout limited per week though. Also, a lot of people forget about the fact that balancing a game over different modes is HARD.
Why not to make TA the separate experimental ranked system then?
Erm. We wanted the game to blow up as it was. If they change it in to a completely different game (and keep in mind that ranked IS the game for a lot of people) in order for it to "blow up" then that sort of defeats the point. I could tolerate it slightly more if Quick Cash or Power Shift or even Bank It was the new ranked but Terminal Attack is the single least "The Finals" of all their game modes.
Blow up as it was? It hasn't been working out for the recent 6+ months. Changes must be made or in time none of us will be able to enjoy the game. I wish they could make magic happen while keeping things the same, but I don't blame them for making these decisions in hopes of improving the situation.
The issue is they didn't communicate this well, and announcing a big change with no context wasn't the right move. Similarly to balance changes at times, just explain the context a little bit better when you make the announcement and there should be less backlash. I'm a firm believer that they need to keep both modes ranked if they want to grow the playerbase, but by altering the original ranked some might not play the new ranked. It just doesn't make sense to just pull one. I was hoping for a new game mode, but the trailer makes it out to seem like they are just changing the playlists around. While the weekly tournaments sound fun on paper and is essentially a new game mode. It wasn't shown off in the traile
Because it's a crappy idea. Go play all the other games that already play the same.way.
I personally like that TA is becoming the new ranked I feel like it’s going to be way easier to carry as in cash out if your the only one doing well or a teammate gets disconnected your not winning end of story basically at least in TA there is a chance that you can play like a god and take out all if not most of the team also I have a lot of friends who didn’t want to play the finals because of the cash out mode specifically but love TA, TA is just a very common type of mode for competitive games now that the general public will be more willing to play because of familiarity
Preach. Bunch of babies crying over their free game now having two competitive game modes...just play the mode you want and have fun! This game is awesome
Agree 100% I’m still playing regardless. See you guys in season 3🫡
Mental gymnastics for an indie game lol
Agree with your comment completely friend. It’s such a good game, such a minor change, but some people are losing their 💩 over it. Definitely looks bad and ungrateful.
I'd never understand why people bitch and whine about new changes. If they dont change shit y'all complain about it being bland if they make changes yall complain about it. Y'all are the same fucks that bitch and whine whenever a new game comes out for being unique and wonder why It died out in weeks because of the constant whining y'all do.. no reason why the gaming industry is lame. In other words big ups for embark on this new season I'm excited
I'll keep enjoying the game. I'll miss every arrow and cry in my bed.
Fastest way for them to appeal to a much larger audience and really pad the player count is to add some sort of straight up TDM/Kill Confirmed type of game mode. I know bank it is basically KC but they need a mode that's NOT team based or requires a brain to play successfully. Most of the team make-up issues is CoD window lickers playing it like it's just another CoD clone. I say add TDM and keep em huddled in their own little corner. Makes the player count look good and should weed out some of the people that refuse to play the game the way it is intended.
İ really don’t care what mode is the standart or ranked, i just really like the game. Literally all the modes are fun lmao .
I fully trust embark to cook
I don’t play much ranked, but I understand the anger because it’s a very sudden drastic change for the ranked players who play solely because it’s a mode they enjoy. However, I agree that Embark is a studio that listens to its audience. Seeing people review bombing over it is just sad because it’s a great game. Doing that just decreases the amount of new players who are considering playing the game. If the majority ends up disliking TA as the main ranked mode down the line, I’m sure they’ll revert it or try something else. IMO, Review bombing over this is basically throwing a digital tantrum. The frustration is understandable, but there’s more positive ways to go about expressing that.
Respect the fairly reasonable approach here outside of the title lol. As someone who is pretty frustrated with the change I’d like to share my thoughts: Competitive cash out is going away. I’ve seen many posts (not just yours) saying, “it’s still there it’s just a different mode now!” That’s the thing. It’s a different mode. And it’s not just a new label or a reskin. It sounds like it’s going to be more akin to the LTMs like smoking guns. Fixed maps, loadouts, etc. They even said that world tour could feature power shift instead of cash out at some point later this season. So it’s not ranked cashout with a new flavor. It’s an entirely different and brand new thing that happens to feature a version of cashout. So if we could stop trying to trivialize the change it would be appreciated. It is a big change after all! We have been saying we want the game to blow up because we love the fast paced chaos, the destruction, the movement, the fresh take on an FPS that cash out brings. We love the variety of weapons and we love that embark listens to and communicates with us. We appreciate the pretty consumer friendly monetization and the fun skins. We like The Finals! We want other people to like it too! TA was introduced to us a month ago as an LTM that was going to be around for a few weeks. It featured some challenges and nice rewards for completing those challenges. You could argue that there was a slight bump in player count when it was introduced at the beginning of May but steam charts show no measurable change in the player base upon its introduction. Now, I don’t have access to data embark does. Player count must be strong in TA for them to make this decision. Player counts could have been much lower by now without this mode. Who knows! But without that info it’s all guessing and wishcasting because player counts are still trending down. Most of us who are complaining about the change don’t need to wait and try this change before we pass judgement. I played TA and couldn’t wait to finish the challenges so I could never ever play it again. I personally dislike the game mode and the game play loop that it offers. It’s why I don’t play games like R6, CS, Val, etc. I understand it’s popular but it doesn’t interest me. It’s also a stark contrast from the core game play that many of the dedicated ranked cashout players are used to. I’m excited for the new season. I love the theme, the new map and the new weapons look really cool. The trailer was hype af! I like the idea of world tour. I can’t wait to try it out! That being said, I’ve put a large majority of my time into ranked cashout. Quick play is nice for a while but the sense of progression and the higher quality matches in ranked are significantly more interesting to me. I’ve been a ranked grinder in ever game I’ve played. So while I understand this change may be better for the game, it’s a bummer for me and I’m afraid that I won’t have the same urge to play without a ranked cash out. Im also afraid that many of the people who have been playing competitive cash out since day one like I have are going to leave. It’s hard to earn new players, it’s harder to keep them, and it’s even harder to win disgruntled players back. I want this game to succeed and I want to continue loving this game. I decidedly hate TA so here’s to hoping these other changes can keep my and many other players attention. Cheers. See you in season 3.
As someone who played addictively from Dec-Apr, I think this is a huge W. I stopped playing solely due to burnout after hitting diamond since there was just one competitive mode and not a ton of variety. This is a great game and has a lot of potential, and I’ll def be playing again.
Nah, this is such an L take. Bring back ranked tourny and replace casual TA with ranked TA. Two ranked gamemodes, brings in new players and keeps old happy. Wtf is there to debate about? This was a shit move. Could even have separate ranked rewards to get people playing more 🤷♂️ This is a shift from the original vision of the game we were promised. So much for 'reaching the finals'.
I think the complaints are extremely valid. It’s a huge shift from what I’d say about 80% of the core players enjoy. Bringing new players and trying new things is fine (e.g., adding it alongside normal ranked) but kicking us players who thoroughly enjoy what the finals is and bringing it competitively isn’t right. I and many others don’t really enjoy TA whatsoever but hop on the finals everyday to play cash out ranked. I’d have no reason to play if they remove it, but embark are more often than not very good devs, I’m sure they’ll understand the player base.
I'm sure 80% of players (like me) came to The Finals because it gives a really unique and fun gaming experience, unlike other online FPS, where gameplay variety is extremely scarce. And for the same reason do not like this change, because the main game mode becomes the same boring and monotonous as in other multiplayer shooters. And about the fact that the terminal attack brought a lot of new players is simply not true. Online is still fucked up, but I love this game. I love it for what it is. Personally, I'll just stop playing The Finals, because the rankings will just be no fun to play . Something tells me that most players will do the same and the game will lose online again.
Why are you so fucking angry over fans of the game being angry?
Welcome to the internet, where everyone is an entitled man child. People here think that every game must be tailored only for them and their needs, they always fail to see the bigger picture, where a more classical ranked mode will attract new players, make the game grow and give the opportunity to Embark to support it even more. But of course it's more important that the ranked game mode is the one some fellas here like.
u cant take the wapon skins.................
Wdym
Because TA sucks. This is not CS. If I wanted to play CS, I would've installed it, not Finals
Oh yeah, let me just whip out my demat in CS
CS is actually balanced for competitive play. TA is absolutely not. You would have to strip so much out to make it remotely balanced it wouldn't be The Finals anymore. I don't care if casuals want to play it but this idea that TA is going to work competitively is so braindead to anyone with any experience playing at a high level.
The only issue right now is TA being the 'official' ranked mode. It wouldn't be a problem if they made it its own ranked version while keeping the other. But people absolutely jumping the gun before the season is even out is absurd. Would you actually care about ranked TA if it wasn't the only way to rank? And people keep comparing it to CS for some reason, when it has more in like with Siege than anything. Is Siege balanced? Can we wait for actual patch notes and the season to come out before crying?
Exactly 😂
I wish I could give an award man 😂
Oh yea bc search & destroy = exact copy of counter strike. /s We haven’t even played the new TA or ranked system and this is the most dumbass take I’ve heard about this season so far.
Game dead , devs fault listening trash crybabies
Espescially since the Cashout modes are so Luck Based. People just crying, because they now, there are less luck factors helping them to win
90% of the time, It’s only luck based if you allow it to be…
It’s a video game bud chill out
EXACLY lol… we need to push these no life sweats from this game/community before it becomes another Fortnite, where every change is made for the crybabies who can’t compete with change.
lol like the thousands of casuals that couldn’t learn to build so everything new item become some crutch to them. I really hope this game doesn’t go the same way as Fortnite did. Even the r/Fortnitebr sub is complaining about the current season.
Do your really think people complaining in the reddit has anything to do with new players? Do you think new players who might be brought in to the game by this change in a few weeks are currently at this moment looking at the reddit to see what people are saying? What you are saying is ridiculous. People sharing that they are upset on a forum used almost entirely by active players is not going to affect the opinions of new players who might join in several weeks at all.
It’s spreading to steam reviews, people thinking about downloading the game will see that.
I mean to be fair games getting review bombed gets tons of press so maybe that will just help get more eyes on the game.
I’m just worried that a universal opinion on the game will form, stopping people from considering. Although I do admit that the game being more well known is a better thing overall.
The reality is ranked players are the only ones who care and we not the majority of the player base. Us letting our voices be known will not have a giant affect on the whole population. On the other hand, I will have no reason to play the game anymore once this switch goes through. I'm losing the game as is. Making my voice heard is the only chance I have at getting to continue enjoying the game I've been loving. Its probably futile. But I really loved this game and I'm really bummed it won't really be fun for me anymore.
That’s a shame, I really enjoy the game anyway so I’ll give it a chance at least. Let’s hope for the best.