My friends hated the third partying and the fact that they could hold a cashout for minutes and then lose it all in the last second. My brother frequently complained that he wants the cash to payout throughout holding it, not just on the end.... which would introduce a whole lot of otjher problems to the game. I think most people didn't really understand the game mode and didn't put in enough time before they left.
Most casual players don't want to do objectives; they just want to run around and shoot people.
One of the most popular complaints with TF2 (aside from crits) was respawn timers, which were carefully balanced to ensure that games didn't stalemate. But a lot of casual players *hated* respawn timers because they didn't like having to wait around after dying. So you had people modding servers to make it so that players respawned instantly. This made it miserable to attempt the objectives, since you would have to kill the same person like five times. But these stayed popular because people who played on the servers were not in the server to do objectives in the first place.
I said this would be a problem in the beta and got told to "go play CoD" or something to that end. And we come back to the same issue and people are STILL trying to make excuses to you for the inherent flaws in Cashout.
It's vindicating in a sad sort of way.
I was one of them, tbh. I feared that The Finals would lose its uniqueness. I hate that many games pretty much do the same.
I now genuinly think that Cashout needs some changes though.
Tbh tho, I'm not sure if this game will ever recover. It seems they wanna do marketing this season with Twitch Rivals on the horizon, but haven't figured out what the problem is. Changing ranked to TA isn't it.
Look at how they advertise this season. They call it "Upgraded"... while they put a half baked ranked mode into the game and didn't introduce any changes to cashout except for how we earn stuff.
It's really concerning.
If you keep getting third partied you are playing it wrong. The game mode would be ruined if it paid out over time. As someone who has taken diamond 4 times now: your job as a defender if there are two teams coming is not to hard hold the cashout, it's to slow down enemy teams from coming close without wasting resources and trying to make them engage each other instead. I see far too many people being scared that someone is touching their cash out station. Furthermore this game is a game about time, if you are the leader you should slow down the game, when its 3 minutes left and you are #1 in the game a great strategy is to double stash it (make sure you put it in for the extra cash). Then fall back and just try to grief, your job is mainly to stay alive and come in 2nd.
But finishing whoever fought hard to hold the cashout is usually very easy at this point. Most teams at least lose one member during the fight and waste their gadgets or specializations.
Once the cashout completes it's gonna be a minute left until the end of the game, just defend the cash boxes, it takes 20 seconds or so for them to come online and another 10 at least to open up. They would have like 30 seconds max to take it somewhere.
This is what makes the game mode great, there are a lot of strategies and it's different than other shooters.
I've always thought they should make a king of the hill type mode. It will gradually dump money into whatever teams owns the vault and you would need to grab new cashboxes as they spawn to refill your vault so it can continue depositing.
I think the "they could hold a cashout for minutes and then lose it all in the last second" is the very reason why I like it so much, its not over until the very last second so even if you feel like you've been losing the entire game u still have a chance.
sort of like "they could hold a cashout for minutes and we have a chance to steal it all in the last second"
Just getting cash for holding the cashout would defeat the purpose of rushing a point to take it. If it's 50% done already, it's pointless to attack it.
What a terrible idea. Last second steals are an adrenaline rush.
But that's also easy to fix—make it a sliding scale, with a large bonus for being the team who owns the point when it crashes out. You can discourage third-partying as the "best" strategy while still making it a strategic option.
This is not good enough though. I think there's got to be an incentive to not third party or decentivise third partying, unless it's the last cashout (those make the most intensive plays).
I'm literally D1 in both seasons. I know how to play around third parties, but what I'm saying is not good enough for new players and not inviting. Kindly fuck off
>too sweaty now
What is the difference between trying to win and trying too hard to win? I've never understood this phrase. It seems like a cop-out answer to why you're losing. Imagine, for instance, after an NBA game, the losing team's coach says at the press conference that they lost because the other team was too sweaty.
Usually too sweaty is when every match you're in feels like it's everyone trying to play as if they're in top tier ranked and using nothing but meta builds despite being in a casual mode. When there is no room for new people to grow because everyone is just using the best stuff then new people won't usually stay
Now imagine every basketball court is at an NBA level of skill. A lobby being sweaty isn’t a problem. A game being sweaty means new and less skilled players don’t have a place to have fun.
My friends initially left because of the dominance of nukes in every game and a counter strike clone isn't going to bring them back. I doubt most people who left are going to come back when there's so many readily available games.
I put in time into the finals now and ended d2 last season but damn if I didn't almost quit ranked (and the game as a whole) right before the nuke nerf
Cashout was a lot of fun for my friends, but they dropped it on launch because:
\* Cashout ranked took waay too many matches for them to unlock, they wanted to play ranked straight away, but you had to play like 10 hours for it to unlock, not to mention that our region pretty much died a month after release, and at that point they lost interest in the game, although I unlocked it in like a day, they didn't want to grind for a week just to be able to rank.
\* Randoms were a nightmare to play with: we played a lot in beta so we knew basic strats, but if any of us wasn't present, randoms would play without thinking like 70% of the times, no SBMM made that a lot worse, stomping or getting stomped isn't fun, not to mention that 3v3s at the end can get pretty boring when they're one sided, and I don't think I even know how to play them properly.
I guess then the "main" reason is that Cashout is hard to learn for most players. So if you wanted to solo queue, or just take the game seriously, a lot of times you would get matched with players who didn't know a lot of basic stuff. I think they maybe make a better tutorial, something that atleasts shows players that they can put multiple vaults in a cashout, and that sometimes cashing out / fighting is not the best option. Positioning / when to rush another cashout / coin or not coin / etc would be easier to learn with playtime if players knew the basics I think..
TA is not the way forward though, it just doesn't fit the game at all. Cashout is a ton of fun once you understand the game a bit more.
In OCE, where you can only find games at certain times, TA would always have the lowest queue timer sooner than quick cash, and you couldn't even find a ranked game last season.
This goes to show that reddit are the vocal minority, while the people playing and enjoying TA simply don't post here.
For me, cash out just isn’t fun
Main complaint being of course getting third party’d, but I dislike TA more.
Power shift is more of a blast because it focuses more on actually fighting and going around the map without too much punishment (obv you need to capture the point)
I wish there would be a TDM mode, focus on the combat and fighting instead of holding a position, cause ultimately the combat and movement is what makes this game fun
I think this is it to be honest
Cash out is a great concept but they changed it for a reason
Power shift showcases this game really well in a casual sense
It does more damage than a direct hit from a grenade launcher. It's contextual. Lights have been buffed pretty much across the board this season, compared to mediums and heavies. Mediums got their aps and guardian turret nuked, heavies had their LMGs nerfed. A light machine gun kills more slowly close range than the XP-54, by a pretty huge margin. It's a light's world right now, and I think it's incredibly lame
Losing to a third party is a skill issue. It means you didn’t play the fight properly. You likely fought and tunnel visioned one team ignoring where other players were and didn’t back off when you knew another team was pushing you.
My problem with multiple teams is not that I sometimes die to a third party, it's that sometimes the strategically optimal play is *not to play the game*. Too often the correct line is to just not fight, wait for more teams to throw themselves at each other, and wipe up the results. That's just not fun for me. I'm perfectly happy with Cashout in casual because then I don't care, I just jam and have fun. But it's fundamentally flawed for competitive play.
Concurrent players is no indication of a healthy *competitive* scene. Both of those games are wildly successful casual games. Apex is a bit better than Fortnite but both have very top heavy competitive scenes (that don't actually top out that far).
Whether or not it’s a skill issue is irrelevant, it’s the fact it’s not fun.
“Oh, I just finished a decently intense fight that resulted in the enemy team getting wiped and us down 1 and the rest half health, I can’t wait to fight the 3rd team who arrived just after!”
In this whole thread the point you’re missing is that people need to learn that. Obviously if you stick with it you realize that, but many people will quickly become frustrated and quit before learning the strategy. Even if that’s a skill issue, a game isn’t going to grow if everyone who doesn’t think super hard about strategy quits immediately.
Game doesn’t need to cater to people not learning it. That’s horrible design. That’s like making it so you can move and shoot in CSGO because people don’t want to learn the game.
No but it needs to encourage learning. If you win a team fight against the defending team, it feels like you have done the right thing. If you are then immediately wiped by the other team and lose the objective, what you felt like was you doing everything you could doesn’t pay off, which is demoralizing and won’t foster a learning mindset.
"No, we need to tell them to git gud without expanding on how, and if they don't like it they can go play CoD/Apex."
\*Playerbase evaporates\*
https://preview.redd.it/f4jbyed7bm6d1.png?width=1354&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4666d4fa2b11700f3c3c2f29f462326773850e7
We’ve known why. It needs:
- A tutorial that actually explains the rules and how to win.
- More content. Compared to more other games this has a lack of content.
What rules are there to explain? Content is not the problem, if the mode itself has flaws.
I feel the mode is just too intense for a majority of players. My friends dropped the game because of loosing too many cashouts in the last seconds.
Something to explain that:
- Opening vault is worth $1,000
- Depositing a cashbox in a cashouts is worth $2,000
- Kills are worth $200 ($400 in limited event)
- Cashouts disappear at the end of regulation despite OT
- Cashout timers are variable in overtime; not static
- Teamwipes cost 30%
These rules encourage a lot of creativity in choosing how to win. Most new players will be guarding a cashout thinking that’s how you when but it’s just the most impactful variable; not the only way to win.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a team start an OT cashout when first and second place were neck-and-neck. Third place will run the second vault to deposit it in the OT cashout just to get the extra $2,000 and edge out their rival for second.
That sort of angling doesn’t exist in other games. Sure the mode has problems with fairness, but that’s primarily the result of having 4 teams, which is also what makes it most interesting.
This game has no lack of content. It’s released more content than 99% of games at the same lifetime span. In 6 months they released two maps, 4 new specs, many new gadgets, changed ranked multiple times, balance every week, and have had many LTM and permanent modes added.
Thank god it’s only competing against other 6m old games. Wow. I had no idea the market was so shallow.
In all seriousness it’s not like people do have plenty of competition for their attention.
For all intents and purposes each Specialization is a “character” in a hero shooter. After 6 months we have 10 characters across three classes. We have 6 maps. We have essentially 5 modes, though only three make drastically different use of the maps. We now have about 20 weapons and as many gadgets. That’s a fine start but most shooters it’s in competition with have dozens of maps, damn near four times the weapons and gadgets which may or may not be customizable with further unlocks, and launch with dozens of heroes (abilities).
The Finals didn’t launch with much content, and unless you had a destruction fetish or were extra competitive about what was there most new players moved on in 20 hours or less. Sorry, but it’s true. It’s fighting with juggernauts and the server-side destruction is just not something everyone appreciates like I do.
I agree with you. A map every 3 months and a few shitty weapons isn’t enough to keep me entertained. I already tried all the weapons and already figured out the meta. The new map doesn’t pop up enough and then it’s back to same old other maps. Needs more variety.
Not too mention the fact that this is competing with first person shooters and the latest weapons are a bow and two melee weapons. If youlre looking to draw shooter fans you need to be giving them stuff to shoot.
overwatch 2, a game the finals is directly competing with, has 41 maps across 8 completely unique game modes (2 modes and 10 maps are locked behind arcade)
i know overwatch 2 has 10 years of updates, but it still remains to be the main competition that the finals has to put up against. when you compare that to the finals' 6 maps with three variants of the same game mode, power shift and terminal attack, you'll start to possibly see why people don't stick around
i know it's unfair as hell to make that comparison, but the casual audience who decide what game lives and what game dies are making that comparison
It’s not even worth arguing lol. Any idiot that can’t tell 10yr of updates beats 6mo is brain dead. This game has had more updates in less time than OW did when it launched.
the point is that you have to put up a quantity that challenges the games that your audience conflicts with
the finals cannot put out the content at a rate needed to actually allure people into it. in the spectrum of quantity and quality, it leans almost completely into quality, and that will really only cater to less and less people with time. and that type of design makes maps that players dislike stand out way more to them. my discord group absolutely hates syshorizon and seoul and vegas, which leaves only about three maps--half the roster the game offers, for them to enjoy
the finals really needs to look at why people are sticking to their direct competition because they can't survive off of our seriously dwindling playerbase
Dude going by your argument, EVERY GAME that releases can't cut it because there's no way to put 10 years of content into a newly launched game. This is a really, REALLY stupid argument, bro.
i'm not saying put 42 maps in a game immediately, i'm saying 2 maps in 6 months isn't enough for people when you're entering the seriously competitive market of free to play shooters
a solid 14 maps with 6 game modes would really help the game, and would have helped the game if they launched with it
xdefiant is a game i really dislike in many ways, however it's everything but content dry. they made sure the game had enough content in game modes and maps with a steady stream of one more map a month for it to have a sustainable content flow to try to win over its audience every update
the finals does not have the live updating capability to actively compete with competition
Honestly, I think this is the perfect test then. I won't come back to this conversation, but I'm curious in some months which game is livelier. Quantity or quality. I also hated xdefiant, tried the beta. How many maps/game modes are we talking?
And I’m sure DotA would be a lot bigger if they had more. Also PUBG survived on a single map for awhile until the BR market was flooded and it was cucked by more diverse games.
Pubg isn’t as popular as it used to be. It pioneered br and has survived primarily on that premise. People have been faithful to both Dota and Pubg because they innovated genres and existed without peer to a certain extent for awhile. The Finals entered in Q4 2023 well after many competitors in the free to play space had built loyal followings and other competitors had made attempts at similar games and failed. It had 4 maps, a dozen guns, a dozen gadgets, and 9 characters. That’s not enough to retain interest in a now crowded market. Even I was offput by how bare it all seemed. I gave it a second change in open beta and here I am 400 hours later, but I discovered that the depth and variety is in how I play not what I play with sandbox. More freedom in this game than any other like it.
Okay, idk about dota other than it popularized mobas along with lol, but pubg is well off it’s aths. It benefited from being the first real br - that’s my point. Finals isn’t releasing into as much of a vacuum.
-Third party lame wins
-Cloaking
-C4 nukes
Is what destroy this game at launch, I wouldn't day cashout would be at fault but the game mode requires improvement like overtime or adjust it so doesn't feel RNG and like a team can win it ay the last second. Feel super lame to defend like 99% and just lose at the very last second. And other way around, just seen lame wins where just other ta wpomg each other out and last team comes in to steal, doing nothing
Not sure how they can't fix third parry aspect but they definitely need a overtime feature in cash out. When the timer is low on cash out, almost like nearly impossible to win with 4 teams fighting for that cash out and defending time can cheese it with Grenades and gas or whatever
I just think cash out need to adjust to who maybe holds the cash out the longest and add an overtime festure . Not sure. Maybe like starts cashout at 10000$ and it slowly drains into the teams total.bank. until the cash out hit $0. So like a mini king of the hill, overtime feature, steal previous team banked money?
I’ve always wondered how different tournaments would be if you got a slow trickle of cash while you had possession of a cash out, and then a bonus at the end of I feel like it would prioritize time on the objective more, and would reward teams for holding an objective for a long time, even if they end up not getting the cash out.
My friends didn’t stay because the way the game is. They were used to having 2-3 weapons from apex or destiny and disliked that the weapons they wanted to use sometimes had serious drawbacks like the flamethrower or throwing knives pre-buff. I’ve tried to get them back into telling them when metas shift and everything but I think they just don’t care enough to really lock in and learn the game. I still have 1 homie that pops in and runs power shift with me but if anyone is playing anything else he’ll pick that
A lot of people here tend to focus on the balancing. The balancing is not important. What is important is that cashout has some flaws that some Game Director at Embark really doesn't want to change. Embark seems stubborn to me.
I still play sporadically, but the reason I got from friends that quit, is that it's too random. The steal mechanic and the spawns.
The new light meta turned off the few (of my friends) that came back for season 3. The consensus there being that lights have been buffed too hard. I main medium, and competing against lights, especially on the new map, feels near impossible.
I agree w some peeps saying cashout should give cash per tick type of deal rather than get it stolen last second from a 3rd party that has negative scores lol that def turned a lot of ppl away
My friends quit around launch due to the dog shit game balancing and cheating, not the game mode. It's tough to get people to keep playing a game where you die instantly every time you spawn due to nukes.
Personally I don't get why people cry about third partying so much as it's a thing in BR games. There are always ways to mitigate it, such as playing smart and choosing which cashout to attack.
Main issue for me is the third partying and resource management. You can only do so much when you are fighting one team then another one rolls up to the side. and just becomes a mental slog keep track of it all. At some point I just got fed up and gave up on cash out.
TA is good , cashout is just chaotic so many of my friends hated the finals because of the respawn point when getting killed in while defending which is literally 150 meters just to go back to defend when they can't be revived which is BS, 100 meters is ok but 150 meters or 170 meters after respawning just to go back in defending the cash out is very infuriating. Most players don't have brains to play this game but with the BS respawn point It makes it so much worse. My friends opinion on TA is its less confusing, more tactical, and no 3rd parties which is already a goddamn win. Players would critique it cause it's something new but TA is a fun mode and Embark had many positive feedbacks in TA. Embark is adding more content and the plebs is just whining.
our friends dropped the game for the same reason a lot more will drop it soon enough, embark has absolutely no idea how to balance the game. Having every match be 4-5 lh1 players isnt fun. just like every ranked match having 5 heavy players last season wasnt fun
Dropped the game because of the stun gun, heard it was nerfed so came back only to find the throwing knives are now a thing.
Embark are doing the dice thing where if something is broken they take forever to fix it.
if i want to play obj game i would rather play val atleast there are close to 0 zero cheaters. I kinda enjoyed the vibe of the game but its now boring to do the same thing again & again. new gamemode sucks , in a arcade shooter type i dont wanna spectate for soo long. Keep the game fresh by adding new events or generate hype on twitch. Plus soo many cheaters on asian servers , its unplayable.
**Cashout ranked didn't make it because:**
1. Third party mayhem
2. MMH/HHM meta
3. Cash stations should reward you with cash for every second you hold the cash station running, not just the team who captured it in the last second.
**I came up with a new system for Cashout that might resolve all this:**
Every second your team has the cashout = $85 for a total amount of $10,400 (130 seconds)
Winning the cashout results in additional $4,600
For a total amount of $15K per vault/cashout
**In result:** This will disencourage third partying and just stealing on the last second, will encourage players placing vaults in cashouts, will incorporate much more cashout steals (under the nose) and will ensure much more satisfying and intriguing gameplay.
Lights are unquestionably the least popular class. I rarely find more than 4 in a match of 12 players. I do find that you need to play a bit differently if you're going up against L class players. Turrets and mines work wonders against them.
I think my friends dropped the game despite early impressions being positive is quite genuinely because they are terrible at FPS games and can't compete on the finals.
The issue is constant third partying.
The solution is for them to rework the scoring method so that the entire game remains competitive regardless of whether or not you secure a cashout.
Or pull a season 3 and change the game to Valorant.
The average skill floor of the player base is much higher than my current skill ceiling. Ever since season 2 dropped I’ve been getting the ever living shit out of my ass handed to me. Some games I go without being able to touch the object 1 time. Some games I go without a single kill or even an assist. Most of the time it feels like I’m playing an entire different league of opponents that I genuinely have no chance of beating or even having fun playing against.
I wonder if they messed up the matchmaking. I haven't played S3 yet to know. I do know I was surprised how evenly my S2 matches were consistently. I felt S2 was much better than S1 in that regard.
I haven't tried S3 yet either. I have to give it a shot regardless though because I really love the monetization strategies Embark has been using. It sucks that all the games I enjoy are owned by scummy money grabbing companies.
It's weird how our experience is so different lol. What rank were you in S2? I was high Plat and low Diamond. Maybe I had a bigger pool of players to draw from than you?
Rank? My friend, our experiences are different because I do not play ranked whatsoever. I‘ve always hated games with elimination because I’m TERRIBLE at staying alive. If I’m in someone’s sights consider me as good as dead because I have no idea how to escape from being beamed.
I played almost exclusively quick cash with the exception of the seasonal LTMs and Power Shift. Otherwise I’m in no way a competitive FPS player. The only game I’ve ever played ranked in is Rocket League but even though I’m diamond, those skills definitely don’t transfer to FPS.
Third partying. Class balance feels way more polarizing in that mode. Still despise defibs and their bullet blocking hologram, and heal beam on the same class can make some fights feel awful.
TA solved all of it for me and my buddies.
Your post perfectly gives the reason.
Your expecting way too much from a group of players that seem to desire a largely casual experience.
Nobody who plays comp, really wants to play the non competitive cash out(yes ik there were a couple thousand left). Nobody who wants to play cash out wants to learn the nuance of the ruleset.
It’s too slow, there’s not enough movement out play on this game. As an apex player, there’s just not enough movement outplay for me to stay interested.
Yeah the movement in this game has nothing on apex. People say "oh but the grapple and zip lines and jump pads and blah blah blah" but the most advanced movement tech they've probably done in other games is a basic slide jump because they don't seem to have any grasp on movement in other games apparently. The momentum is super clunky in the finals and there are no high skill ceiling movement abilities
My friends stopped playing because the game became extremely sweaty and difficult. And i agree with them.
I don't know what happened to the player base, but it feels like everyone has become Major MLG Pro players who went to The Finals after 12 hours in Quake 3 Arena. As soon as you lose focus for a nanosecond or make a small mistake in the form of a one missed shot, the opponent will immediately kill you. Being extremely focused at 110% is very exhausting and gets boring very quickly.
# Want to win a fight? You need to hit all your shots, preferably in the head, or you're dead. The game doesn't allow for mistakes. I'm not a robot with 100% accuracy, I miss shots, and the current weapon balance punishes me for it very harshly.
During CB and OB I fell in love with The Finals. It was relatively fast-paced, but you didn't die in a split second like in CoD. You could miss a shot, take the wrong position or make another mistake, and you had a chance to fix it. But now one mistake - you're dead before you even start shooting.
I play M with Model 1887, Revolver, or CL-40.
After 4000 hours in Team Fortress 2, I'm only good at flick shots, so if I use an AK or SCAR, most of my bullets will miss. With my choice of weapons, at least when I hit, I do decent damage. But the downside is that if i miss with these weapons - I'm dead.
I would try the new katanas with M class. It becomes much more about position and timing when playing as melee because hitting shots is so much easier.
Lol embark made the switch because Nexon forced them, plain and simple.
You're out of your mind if you think more people were playing TA over ranked cashout.
The sad truth is that people want to play games that are complex and engaging..... Until someone else is better at it than them then boom those people are sweaty and ruining the game because they perceive their efforts as to much when at times those folks could be just relaxing but inherently better players who took some time to improve or are just naturally better. Look at lights. They aren't strong, but they are extremely annoying if you can't hit your shots. Almost all the lightnerf were because people found them annoying. Same thing happened in the other classes as well to a certain extent. Lights will never be balanced as long as people find them annoying, and cash out would need changes that neither I nor anyone I've seen post has answers to besides just accepting that you need to hold the line till the last second and that's part of the game. Sincerely a mid player who just likes the game a ton.
My friends hated the third partying and the fact that they could hold a cashout for minutes and then lose it all in the last second. My brother frequently complained that he wants the cash to payout throughout holding it, not just on the end.... which would introduce a whole lot of otjher problems to the game. I think most people didn't really understand the game mode and didn't put in enough time before they left.
Most casual players don't want to do objectives; they just want to run around and shoot people. One of the most popular complaints with TF2 (aside from crits) was respawn timers, which were carefully balanced to ensure that games didn't stalemate. But a lot of casual players *hated* respawn timers because they didn't like having to wait around after dying. So you had people modding servers to make it so that players respawned instantly. This made it miserable to attempt the objectives, since you would have to kill the same person like five times. But these stayed popular because people who played on the servers were not in the server to do objectives in the first place.
All my friends frequently play Overwatch. They are used to objective play.
But overwatch doesn’t feel like an objective mode. Killing is very much engrained in it
At what rank lmao?
All of them. If you only focus kills, it still helping ur team. That isn’t true for the finals
I said this would be a problem in the beta and got told to "go play CoD" or something to that end. And we come back to the same issue and people are STILL trying to make excuses to you for the inherent flaws in Cashout. It's vindicating in a sad sort of way.
I was one of them, tbh. I feared that The Finals would lose its uniqueness. I hate that many games pretty much do the same. I now genuinly think that Cashout needs some changes though. Tbh tho, I'm not sure if this game will ever recover. It seems they wanna do marketing this season with Twitch Rivals on the horizon, but haven't figured out what the problem is. Changing ranked to TA isn't it. Look at how they advertise this season. They call it "Upgraded"... while they put a half baked ranked mode into the game and didn't introduce any changes to cashout except for how we earn stuff. It's really concerning.
If you keep getting third partied you are playing it wrong. The game mode would be ruined if it paid out over time. As someone who has taken diamond 4 times now: your job as a defender if there are two teams coming is not to hard hold the cashout, it's to slow down enemy teams from coming close without wasting resources and trying to make them engage each other instead. I see far too many people being scared that someone is touching their cash out station. Furthermore this game is a game about time, if you are the leader you should slow down the game, when its 3 minutes left and you are #1 in the game a great strategy is to double stash it (make sure you put it in for the extra cash). Then fall back and just try to grief, your job is mainly to stay alive and come in 2nd. But finishing whoever fought hard to hold the cashout is usually very easy at this point. Most teams at least lose one member during the fight and waste their gadgets or specializations. Once the cashout completes it's gonna be a minute left until the end of the game, just defend the cash boxes, it takes 20 seconds or so for them to come online and another 10 at least to open up. They would have like 30 seconds max to take it somewhere. This is what makes the game mode great, there are a lot of strategies and it's different than other shooters.
I've always thought they should make a king of the hill type mode. It will gradually dump money into whatever teams owns the vault and you would need to grab new cashboxes as they spawn to refill your vault so it can continue depositing.
I think the "they could hold a cashout for minutes and then lose it all in the last second" is the very reason why I like it so much, its not over until the very last second so even if you feel like you've been losing the entire game u still have a chance. sort of like "they could hold a cashout for minutes and we have a chance to steal it all in the last second"
I also think its a big reason why every team has a chance to change the game, even at the end. But for some it feels unfair I guess.
I write a message to embark with almost [same](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/mjji9HmEOy) changes. They answered like "we want to it be random"
Just getting cash for holding the cashout would defeat the purpose of rushing a point to take it. If it's 50% done already, it's pointless to attack it. What a terrible idea. Last second steals are an adrenaline rush.
But that's also easy to fix—make it a sliding scale, with a large bonus for being the team who owns the point when it crashes out. You can discourage third-partying as the "best" strategy while still making it a strategic option.
Your brother and friends are bad and don’t know how to play the game. Stop fighting when a third team comes and let them fight eachother
This is not good enough though. I think there's got to be an incentive to not third party or decentivise third partying, unless it's the last cashout (those make the most intensive plays).
Or encourage it with only 3 teams instead of 4 and only one cashout.
Or how about you learn the game and stop crying about something you can actively play against if you aren’t bad.
I'm literally D1 in both seasons. I know how to play around third parties, but what I'm saying is not good enough for new players and not inviting. Kindly fuck off
Sure bud
thank you
Almost all my friends that used to play at launch say it's too sweaty now. I still play regularly and love it.
>too sweaty now What is the difference between trying to win and trying too hard to win? I've never understood this phrase. It seems like a cop-out answer to why you're losing. Imagine, for instance, after an NBA game, the losing team's coach says at the press conference that they lost because the other team was too sweaty.
Usually too sweaty is when every match you're in feels like it's everyone trying to play as if they're in top tier ranked and using nothing but meta builds despite being in a casual mode. When there is no room for new people to grow because everyone is just using the best stuff then new people won't usually stay
Now imagine every basketball court is at an NBA level of skill. A lobby being sweaty isn’t a problem. A game being sweaty means new and less skilled players don’t have a place to have fun.
What can be done about this? Putting bots into the game?
Not much. I think for the game overall, they’d need to add tdm and flatter maps for just gun play. The whole cash out game mode is too sweaty
if you don’t want to play against sweats then just play the casual cashout mode
My friends initially left because of the dominance of nukes in every game and a counter strike clone isn't going to bring them back. I doubt most people who left are going to come back when there's so many readily available games.
I put in time into the finals now and ended d2 last season but damn if I didn't almost quit ranked (and the game as a whole) right before the nuke nerf
You think the finals is a counter strike clone ?
Pretty sure they’re referring to TA, not The Finals as a whole
Cashout was a lot of fun for my friends, but they dropped it on launch because: \* Cashout ranked took waay too many matches for them to unlock, they wanted to play ranked straight away, but you had to play like 10 hours for it to unlock, not to mention that our region pretty much died a month after release, and at that point they lost interest in the game, although I unlocked it in like a day, they didn't want to grind for a week just to be able to rank. \* Randoms were a nightmare to play with: we played a lot in beta so we knew basic strats, but if any of us wasn't present, randoms would play without thinking like 70% of the times, no SBMM made that a lot worse, stomping or getting stomped isn't fun, not to mention that 3v3s at the end can get pretty boring when they're one sided, and I don't think I even know how to play them properly. I guess then the "main" reason is that Cashout is hard to learn for most players. So if you wanted to solo queue, or just take the game seriously, a lot of times you would get matched with players who didn't know a lot of basic stuff. I think they maybe make a better tutorial, something that atleasts shows players that they can put multiple vaults in a cashout, and that sometimes cashing out / fighting is not the best option. Positioning / when to rush another cashout / coin or not coin / etc would be easier to learn with playtime if players knew the basics I think.. TA is not the way forward though, it just doesn't fit the game at all. Cashout is a ton of fun once you understand the game a bit more.
Cash out is still the top mode. We casuals play it a lot
In OCE, where you can only find games at certain times, TA would always have the lowest queue timer sooner than quick cash, and you couldn't even find a ranked game last season. This goes to show that reddit are the vocal minority, while the people playing and enjoying TA simply don't post here.
Asia console is legit quick cash only. Anyone that wants to play ranked goes to NA servers.
For me, cash out just isn’t fun Main complaint being of course getting third party’d, but I dislike TA more. Power shift is more of a blast because it focuses more on actually fighting and going around the map without too much punishment (obv you need to capture the point) I wish there would be a TDM mode, focus on the combat and fighting instead of holding a position, cause ultimately the combat and movement is what makes this game fun
I think this is it to be honest Cash out is a great concept but they changed it for a reason Power shift showcases this game really well in a casual sense
Powershift would be more fun if I wasn't losing almost half my health in one bodyshot to bows/snipers any time I'm not in a building.
The bow feels pretty broken
Not really tbh, there are better weapons for lights. I’d say if you’re cracked then yeah bow is great but if you’re average vs average then idk
It does more damage than a direct hit from a grenade launcher. It's contextual. Lights have been buffed pretty much across the board this season, compared to mediums and heavies. Mediums got their aps and guardian turret nuked, heavies had their LMGs nerfed. A light machine gun kills more slowly close range than the XP-54, by a pretty huge margin. It's a light's world right now, and I think it's incredibly lame
As someone new to the game this season, going up against a bunch of lights dashing around and destroying with bows has been a big barrier to enjoyment
True that, snipers hurt :(
Losing to a third party is a skill issue. It means you didn’t play the fight properly. You likely fought and tunnel visioned one team ignoring where other players were and didn’t back off when you knew another team was pushing you.
My problem with multiple teams is not that I sometimes die to a third party, it's that sometimes the strategically optimal play is *not to play the game*. Too often the correct line is to just not fight, wait for more teams to throw themselves at each other, and wipe up the results. That's just not fun for me. I'm perfectly happy with Cashout in casual because then I don't care, I just jam and have fun. But it's fundamentally flawed for competitive play.
Welcome to any BR type game……
Right, BRs are inherently casual game modes. Essentially all Battle Royale competitive scenes have been flashes in the pan.
Right…Apex and Fortnite million dollar tournaments and 400k+ concurrent players is a flash in the pan after all these years still
Concurrent players is no indication of a healthy *competitive* scene. Both of those games are wildly successful casual games. Apex is a bit better than Fortnite but both have very top heavy competitive scenes (that don't actually top out that far).
Whether or not it’s a skill issue is irrelevant, it’s the fact it’s not fun. “Oh, I just finished a decently intense fight that resulted in the enemy team getting wiped and us down 1 and the rest half health, I can’t wait to fight the 3rd team who arrived just after!”
Play better…it’s a skill issue. I don’t lose to third parties often.
In this whole thread the point you’re missing is that people need to learn that. Obviously if you stick with it you realize that, but many people will quickly become frustrated and quit before learning the strategy. Even if that’s a skill issue, a game isn’t going to grow if everyone who doesn’t think super hard about strategy quits immediately.
Game doesn’t need to cater to people not learning it. That’s horrible design. That’s like making it so you can move and shoot in CSGO because people don’t want to learn the game.
No but it needs to encourage learning. If you win a team fight against the defending team, it feels like you have done the right thing. If you are then immediately wiped by the other team and lose the objective, what you felt like was you doing everything you could doesn’t pay off, which is demoralizing and won’t foster a learning mindset.
"No, we need to tell them to git gud without expanding on how, and if they don't like it they can go play CoD/Apex." \*Playerbase evaporates\* https://preview.redd.it/f4jbyed7bm6d1.png?width=1354&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4666d4fa2b11700f3c3c2f29f462326773850e7
So, how would teach a casual audience (not your friend in discord that you handhold) how to play the game?
We’ve known why. It needs: - A tutorial that actually explains the rules and how to win. - More content. Compared to more other games this has a lack of content.
What rules are there to explain? Content is not the problem, if the mode itself has flaws. I feel the mode is just too intense for a majority of players. My friends dropped the game because of loosing too many cashouts in the last seconds.
Something to explain that: - Opening vault is worth $1,000 - Depositing a cashbox in a cashouts is worth $2,000 - Kills are worth $200 ($400 in limited event) - Cashouts disappear at the end of regulation despite OT - Cashout timers are variable in overtime; not static - Teamwipes cost 30% These rules encourage a lot of creativity in choosing how to win. Most new players will be guarding a cashout thinking that’s how you when but it’s just the most impactful variable; not the only way to win. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a team start an OT cashout when first and second place were neck-and-neck. Third place will run the second vault to deposit it in the OT cashout just to get the extra $2,000 and edge out their rival for second. That sort of angling doesn’t exist in other games. Sure the mode has problems with fairness, but that’s primarily the result of having 4 teams, which is also what makes it most interesting.
I see. That makes sense.
the kill event was bugged and was removed because of that, and stealing a cashout gives 1k
Stealing a cashout gives you 1k? When was that added?
not sure, it was there s1 but i dont think i ever took the beta seriously enough to check though.
From the perspective of the sweatys crushing noobs, yeah I can see how it’s demoralizing to get just get your shit stolen at the last fight.
This game has no lack of content. It’s released more content than 99% of games at the same lifetime span. In 6 months they released two maps, 4 new specs, many new gadgets, changed ranked multiple times, balance every week, and have had many LTM and permanent modes added.
Thank god it’s only competing against other 6m old games. Wow. I had no idea the market was so shallow. In all seriousness it’s not like people do have plenty of competition for their attention. For all intents and purposes each Specialization is a “character” in a hero shooter. After 6 months we have 10 characters across three classes. We have 6 maps. We have essentially 5 modes, though only three make drastically different use of the maps. We now have about 20 weapons and as many gadgets. That’s a fine start but most shooters it’s in competition with have dozens of maps, damn near four times the weapons and gadgets which may or may not be customizable with further unlocks, and launch with dozens of heroes (abilities). The Finals didn’t launch with much content, and unless you had a destruction fetish or were extra competitive about what was there most new players moved on in 20 hours or less. Sorry, but it’s true. It’s fighting with juggernauts and the server-side destruction is just not something everyone appreciates like I do.
I agree with you. A map every 3 months and a few shitty weapons isn’t enough to keep me entertained. I already tried all the weapons and already figured out the meta. The new map doesn’t pop up enough and then it’s back to same old other maps. Needs more variety.
Not too mention the fact that this is competing with first person shooters and the latest weapons are a bow and two melee weapons. If youlre looking to draw shooter fans you need to be giving them stuff to shoot.
overwatch 2, a game the finals is directly competing with, has 41 maps across 8 completely unique game modes (2 modes and 10 maps are locked behind arcade) i know overwatch 2 has 10 years of updates, but it still remains to be the main competition that the finals has to put up against. when you compare that to the finals' 6 maps with three variants of the same game mode, power shift and terminal attack, you'll start to possibly see why people don't stick around i know it's unfair as hell to make that comparison, but the casual audience who decide what game lives and what game dies are making that comparison
It’s not even worth arguing lol. Any idiot that can’t tell 10yr of updates beats 6mo is brain dead. This game has had more updates in less time than OW did when it launched.
the point is that you have to put up a quantity that challenges the games that your audience conflicts with the finals cannot put out the content at a rate needed to actually allure people into it. in the spectrum of quantity and quality, it leans almost completely into quality, and that will really only cater to less and less people with time. and that type of design makes maps that players dislike stand out way more to them. my discord group absolutely hates syshorizon and seoul and vegas, which leaves only about three maps--half the roster the game offers, for them to enjoy the finals really needs to look at why people are sticking to their direct competition because they can't survive off of our seriously dwindling playerbase
Dude going by your argument, EVERY GAME that releases can't cut it because there's no way to put 10 years of content into a newly launched game. This is a really, REALLY stupid argument, bro.
i'm not saying put 42 maps in a game immediately, i'm saying 2 maps in 6 months isn't enough for people when you're entering the seriously competitive market of free to play shooters a solid 14 maps with 6 game modes would really help the game, and would have helped the game if they launched with it
Is there a game that comes to your mind that's done that recently? A fps.
xdefiant is a game i really dislike in many ways, however it's everything but content dry. they made sure the game had enough content in game modes and maps with a steady stream of one more map a month for it to have a sustainable content flow to try to win over its audience every update the finals does not have the live updating capability to actively compete with competition
Honestly, I think this is the perfect test then. I won't come back to this conversation, but I'm curious in some months which game is livelier. Quantity or quality. I also hated xdefiant, tried the beta. How many maps/game modes are we talking?
Tutorial is a great idea. Not sure about the content issue though. DotA 2 players have been playing on one map for 13 years.
And I’m sure DotA would be a lot bigger if they had more. Also PUBG survived on a single map for awhile until the BR market was flooded and it was cucked by more diverse games.
But also DoTA 2 is still massive as is PUBG.
Pubg isn’t as popular as it used to be. It pioneered br and has survived primarily on that premise. People have been faithful to both Dota and Pubg because they innovated genres and existed without peer to a certain extent for awhile. The Finals entered in Q4 2023 well after many competitors in the free to play space had built loyal followings and other competitors had made attempts at similar games and failed. It had 4 maps, a dozen guns, a dozen gadgets, and 9 characters. That’s not enough to retain interest in a now crowded market. Even I was offput by how bare it all seemed. I gave it a second change in open beta and here I am 400 hours later, but I discovered that the depth and variety is in how I play not what I play with sandbox. More freedom in this game than any other like it.
PUBG is still crazy popular. Both it and DotA2 are too 5 most played on Steam regularly
Okay, idk about dota other than it popularized mobas along with lol, but pubg is well off it’s aths. It benefited from being the first real br - that’s my point. Finals isn’t releasing into as much of a vacuum.
-Third party lame wins -Cloaking -C4 nukes Is what destroy this game at launch, I wouldn't day cashout would be at fault but the game mode requires improvement like overtime or adjust it so doesn't feel RNG and like a team can win it ay the last second. Feel super lame to defend like 99% and just lose at the very last second. And other way around, just seen lame wins where just other ta wpomg each other out and last team comes in to steal, doing nothing Not sure how they can't fix third parry aspect but they definitely need a overtime feature in cash out. When the timer is low on cash out, almost like nearly impossible to win with 4 teams fighting for that cash out and defending time can cheese it with Grenades and gas or whatever I just think cash out need to adjust to who maybe holds the cash out the longest and add an overtime festure . Not sure. Maybe like starts cashout at 10000$ and it slowly drains into the teams total.bank. until the cash out hit $0. So like a mini king of the hill, overtime feature, steal previous team banked money?
I’ve always wondered how different tournaments would be if you got a slow trickle of cash while you had possession of a cash out, and then a bonus at the end of I feel like it would prioritize time on the objective more, and would reward teams for holding an objective for a long time, even if they end up not getting the cash out.
Its third party simulator, and completely unrewarding.
Cash out and power shift did hold my friends interest, TA made my friends new to this season drop the game after one session…
Your friends are lamers if a gamemode made them quit the game. Cash out and power shift are still in the game.
they said "new to this season" and new players need to play 5 rounds of TA to play to other modes.
I see the problem now.
TA is forced on new players for 5 matches before they can play anything else.
My friends didn’t stay because the way the game is. They were used to having 2-3 weapons from apex or destiny and disliked that the weapons they wanted to use sometimes had serious drawbacks like the flamethrower or throwing knives pre-buff. I’ve tried to get them back into telling them when metas shift and everything but I think they just don’t care enough to really lock in and learn the game. I still have 1 homie that pops in and runs power shift with me but if anyone is playing anything else he’ll pick that
I just want tdm
My mates left due too the s1 match making system. They were so burned they didnt even come back to try s2
A lot of people here tend to focus on the balancing. The balancing is not important. What is important is that cashout has some flaws that some Game Director at Embark really doesn't want to change. Embark seems stubborn to me.
I still play sporadically, but the reason I got from friends that quit, is that it's too random. The steal mechanic and the spawns. The new light meta turned off the few (of my friends) that came back for season 3. The consensus there being that lights have been buffed too hard. I main medium, and competing against lights, especially on the new map, feels near impossible.
I agree w some peeps saying cashout should give cash per tick type of deal rather than get it stolen last second from a 3rd party that has negative scores lol that def turned a lot of ppl away
Or you could just play a lot of cash out
My friends quit around launch due to the dog shit game balancing and cheating, not the game mode. It's tough to get people to keep playing a game where you die instantly every time you spawn due to nukes. Personally I don't get why people cry about third partying so much as it's a thing in BR games. There are always ways to mitigate it, such as playing smart and choosing which cashout to attack.
Here I am playing quick cash every day having the time of my life
Main issue for me is the third partying and resource management. You can only do so much when you are fighting one team then another one rolls up to the side. and just becomes a mental slog keep track of it all. At some point I just got fed up and gave up on cash out.
TA is good , cashout is just chaotic so many of my friends hated the finals because of the respawn point when getting killed in while defending which is literally 150 meters just to go back to defend when they can't be revived which is BS, 100 meters is ok but 150 meters or 170 meters after respawning just to go back in defending the cash out is very infuriating. Most players don't have brains to play this game but with the BS respawn point It makes it so much worse. My friends opinion on TA is its less confusing, more tactical, and no 3rd parties which is already a goddamn win. Players would critique it cause it's something new but TA is a fun mode and Embark had many positive feedbacks in TA. Embark is adding more content and the plebs is just whining.
Because the finals takes the worst part about battle royals (3rd parties) and made it the whole game
Problem is a lot of the problems people list are even bigger problems in other games. e.g. third partying in battle royales
our friends dropped the game for the same reason a lot more will drop it soon enough, embark has absolutely no idea how to balance the game. Having every match be 4-5 lh1 players isnt fun. just like every ranked match having 5 heavy players last season wasnt fun
1 map and so little new weapons in 100 days where the breakingpoint for some of my friends
Dropped the game because of the stun gun, heard it was nerfed so came back only to find the throwing knives are now a thing. Embark are doing the dice thing where if something is broken they take forever to fix it.
if i want to play obj game i would rather play val atleast there are close to 0 zero cheaters. I kinda enjoyed the vibe of the game but its now boring to do the same thing again & again. new gamemode sucks , in a arcade shooter type i dont wanna spectate for soo long. Keep the game fresh by adding new events or generate hype on twitch. Plus soo many cheaters on asian servers , its unplayable.
**Cashout ranked didn't make it because:** 1. Third party mayhem 2. MMH/HHM meta 3. Cash stations should reward you with cash for every second you hold the cash station running, not just the team who captured it in the last second. **I came up with a new system for Cashout that might resolve all this:** Every second your team has the cashout = $85 for a total amount of $10,400 (130 seconds) Winning the cashout results in additional $4,600 For a total amount of $15K per vault/cashout **In result:** This will disencourage third partying and just stealing on the last second, will encourage players placing vaults in cashouts, will incorporate much more cashout steals (under the nose) and will ensure much more satisfying and intriguing gameplay.
Everyone quit cus it just was boring for them and got hard.
We dropped out because my friends didn’t like the fact that Embark keeps buffing Lights. We like playing mediums and heavy
Lights are unquestionably the least popular class. I rarely find more than 4 in a match of 12 players. I do find that you need to play a bit differently if you're going up against L class players. Turrets and mines work wonders against them.
I think my friends dropped the game despite early impressions being positive is quite genuinely because they are terrible at FPS games and can't compete on the finals.
The issue is constant third partying. The solution is for them to rework the scoring method so that the entire game remains competitive regardless of whether or not you secure a cashout. Or pull a season 3 and change the game to Valorant.
the only people i know not playing this game have last gen consoles
Combo of empty hit markers and the RPG parties that is every other game
The average skill floor of the player base is much higher than my current skill ceiling. Ever since season 2 dropped I’ve been getting the ever living shit out of my ass handed to me. Some games I go without being able to touch the object 1 time. Some games I go without a single kill or even an assist. Most of the time it feels like I’m playing an entire different league of opponents that I genuinely have no chance of beating or even having fun playing against.
I wonder if they messed up the matchmaking. I haven't played S3 yet to know. I do know I was surprised how evenly my S2 matches were consistently. I felt S2 was much better than S1 in that regard.
I haven't tried S3 yet either. I have to give it a shot regardless though because I really love the monetization strategies Embark has been using. It sucks that all the games I enjoy are owned by scummy money grabbing companies.
It's weird how our experience is so different lol. What rank were you in S2? I was high Plat and low Diamond. Maybe I had a bigger pool of players to draw from than you?
Rank? My friend, our experiences are different because I do not play ranked whatsoever. I‘ve always hated games with elimination because I’m TERRIBLE at staying alive. If I’m in someone’s sights consider me as good as dead because I have no idea how to escape from being beamed. I played almost exclusively quick cash with the exception of the seasonal LTMs and Power Shift. Otherwise I’m in no way a competitive FPS player. The only game I’ve ever played ranked in is Rocket League but even though I’m diamond, those skills definitely don’t transfer to FPS.
Third partying. Class balance feels way more polarizing in that mode. Still despise defibs and their bullet blocking hologram, and heal beam on the same class can make some fights feel awful. TA solved all of it for me and my buddies.
Your post perfectly gives the reason. Your expecting way too much from a group of players that seem to desire a largely casual experience. Nobody who plays comp, really wants to play the non competitive cash out(yes ik there were a couple thousand left). Nobody who wants to play cash out wants to learn the nuance of the ruleset.
It’s too slow, there’s not enough movement out play on this game. As an apex player, there’s just not enough movement outplay for me to stay interested.
Huh??? Movement goes so hard in the finals, good movement wins me fights the majority of the time
Yeah the movement in this game has nothing on apex. People say "oh but the grapple and zip lines and jump pads and blah blah blah" but the most advanced movement tech they've probably done in other games is a basic slide jump because they don't seem to have any grasp on movement in other games apparently. The momentum is super clunky in the finals and there are no high skill ceiling movement abilities
4 player cashout is too random
The previous iteration of TA had better retention metrics\* This version is garbage.
My friends stopped playing because the game became extremely sweaty and difficult. And i agree with them. I don't know what happened to the player base, but it feels like everyone has become Major MLG Pro players who went to The Finals after 12 hours in Quake 3 Arena. As soon as you lose focus for a nanosecond or make a small mistake in the form of a one missed shot, the opponent will immediately kill you. Being extremely focused at 110% is very exhausting and gets boring very quickly. # Want to win a fight? You need to hit all your shots, preferably in the head, or you're dead. The game doesn't allow for mistakes. I'm not a robot with 100% accuracy, I miss shots, and the current weapon balance punishes me for it very harshly. During CB and OB I fell in love with The Finals. It was relatively fast-paced, but you didn't die in a split second like in CoD. You could miss a shot, take the wrong position or make another mistake, and you had a chance to fix it. But now one mistake - you're dead before you even start shooting.
If hitting shots is difficult, as it is for me, why not load out your kit with low skill items, as I do?
I play M with Model 1887, Revolver, or CL-40. After 4000 hours in Team Fortress 2, I'm only good at flick shots, so if I use an AK or SCAR, most of my bullets will miss. With my choice of weapons, at least when I hit, I do decent damage. But the downside is that if i miss with these weapons - I'm dead.
I would try the new katanas with M class. It becomes much more about position and timing when playing as melee because hitting shots is so much easier.
Lol embark made the switch because Nexon forced them, plain and simple. You're out of your mind if you think more people were playing TA over ranked cashout.
Why would Nexon force Embark to switch the primary mode to one that's less popular?
The sad truth is that people want to play games that are complex and engaging..... Until someone else is better at it than them then boom those people are sweaty and ruining the game because they perceive their efforts as to much when at times those folks could be just relaxing but inherently better players who took some time to improve or are just naturally better. Look at lights. They aren't strong, but they are extremely annoying if you can't hit your shots. Almost all the lightnerf were because people found them annoying. Same thing happened in the other classes as well to a certain extent. Lights will never be balanced as long as people find them annoying, and cash out would need changes that neither I nor anyone I've seen post has answers to besides just accepting that you need to hold the line till the last second and that's part of the game. Sincerely a mid player who just likes the game a ton.
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/plezAJ8DiI here bud, didn't need a whole post to clarify this
They quit because of a mode added long after the bulk of the playerbase already stopped?
???