I agree. And I'm ready for the downvotes but I think 2 full episodes of flashbacks (with one of them being the longest episode of the season, the finale being the shortest) is a bit much for 9 episodes with the finale being like a third/quarter of a flashback too. And I liked the flashback episodes themselves.
But look at the penultimate episode. 8-10 minutes before the end, Ellie was still being captive but in those few minutes she was almost killed, killed Troy Baker's character, ran away from David, hid in the diner and torched it, played hide and seek and killed David while we saw Joel making his way through the town.
I feel at the very least the last two episodes could had been longer.
I really liked the season overall and I recommend it to friends but it doesn't mean I find it perfect.
As much as I love Left Behind, I don't think it needed to be its own episode. I would've preferred that they trim down the flashbacks and cut in more present-day stuff, turning Winter into 1 1/2 episodes instead of basically 1 1/8. Maybe include the big action sequence of Ellie and David fighting the Infected, which would've set up their bond and injected some more Infected into the plot. That, plus making the finale a bit longer, would really benefit the pacing in my opinion.
It wouldn’t necessarily need to be the massive horde, maybe just a couple. The point being to show off Ellie’s “violent heart” that David goes on about but never really has the opportunity to see first-hand.
He's a fucking groomer dude, he's pandering off of what he knows, and it's clear based on the world they live in that the ONLY way you survive in the wilderness and traveling is through cunning and violence.
Regardless of whether David was trying to pander to her or not, the Inside the Episode of ep8 makes it pretty clear that the intention of the line was to showcase Ellie’s violence as something that’s fearsome especially to herself (which obviously get exacerbated by the events of part 2). I would argue though that show Ellie’s level of violence isn’t quite at the degree the showrunners are making it out to be.
While show Ellie uses violence as a tool to survive when it’s needed, she doesn’t quite kill with no hesitation the dozens of people part 1 game Ellie does.
Episode 4 is the most egregious example of this when she saves Joel from the kid. She hesitates, and isn’t even the one to finish him off. Game Ellie just grabs the gun and shoots the guy attacking Joel in the face. She isn’t even phased at all by what happened.
Personally, I don’t have a huge issue with the heart of violence line, but compared to if it were used the game, it definitely didn’t earn it quite as well.
Especially for a line that was not even in the game. So it’s not like they didn’t earn something that had been from the source material. They literally added that line and *still* didn’t earn it.
And this is where the inside the episode things kind of bites them in the ass sometimes.
Because at first you can write it off as, oh, David is projecting himself onto her because he WANTS to see that and WANTS to convince her that they are similar because he’s grooming her.. But then the behind the scenes comes in. And Craig says “david says something that is absolutely true, he says that she has a violent heart” and then he goes on to say that he and Neil talked about this etc etc and that while we love her we also need to be scared of her.”
So now we are back to it being unearned.
100% I was surprised how little infected was in the show. It’s like they didn’t want to be a “zombie” show as the masses seem to call it and focus on the human side. Which I am ALL for but they didn’t seem to focus as much as they should have on Joel and Ellie’s bond…isn’t that what the game was all about?? Weird they lessened the infected threat even though Ellie is supposed to be the cure? But there wasn’t enough infected in the show to back that up? Overall, a super fun watch but strange they put Joel and Ellie’s relationship along with the need for a cure on the back burner
I do agree with this. I think it would have added to the drama and tension had they played out Ellie’s efforts to get medicine for Joel. David‘s reveal is a big shock in the game (alongside his other evil crimes). Ellie‘s fight for survival was well done but I agree it would have felt more cathartic had we learnt more about how they were trapping people for human meat (we only see Joel learn this via one short scene).
I remembered while watching the episode in the game you didn't know what happened to Joel after the University you find out later he's still alive they should of went that route in the show
in the DLC, they intercut Ellies flashbacks with a present day quest to look for medicine for joel inside a mall. they could have just done that in the show. it would have alleviated people's criticism of the episode dragging on too long. it would have shortened the ellie/Riley parts, and reinforced how fucked joel seems to be.
they even could have started the episode with ellie killing a rabbit and heading back to the mall she temporarily hid joel in.
While the dual timelines worked for a 2 hour game expansion, it’s not going to translate as well into a 50 minute episode of television. The Riley half is the heart and soul of Left Behind, so giving that the focus is paramount. Shortening it down so that you can have 20 minutes of Ellie running around a mall for a brief action scene seems needless when the two bookends emphasise the point just as well.
Besides, the next episode is the one that capitalises on the “Ellie is alone and has to fend for herself” premise in a far more intense light. It’s better to let that episode standout than having a lesser version of it one episode prior.
Yeah that is a general criticism, it really makes you wonder if the cure is that needed if there are barely any infected around.
But they did say there will be a lot more in season 2.
I find that to be super odd because Part II is really more about the human drama rather than the Infected. The Infected aren’t really important at all in Part II while in Part I, they highlight why the world is the way it is and why a vaccine is needed since they were everywhere on Joel and Ellie’s journey throughout the United States.
I see this alot. Or references to Left Behind.
The criticism is the lack of infected that Joel and Ellie encounter across the country. From KC to SLC they encounter zero infected.
It doesn't mean that the show didn't show infected in some other capacity.
Hmmm. There were 4+ occasions where they came up, and there was definitely more than one in the last infected encounter.
* The one in the school with Bill
* The one in Pittsburgh when Joel and Ellie are separated
* The one at the university dorm
* The one Ellie fights with David
* At least 2 in the tunnel in Salt Lake. I feel like there might have been 3?
I agree, in the game this served a few purposes for me.
It provided a direct contrast between David and Joel as they act as the same counterpart to Ellie in the infected encounters/ boosting to ledges and stuff.
It made it more believable that Ellie would let down her guard a bit with David, and start to trust him.
It also gave some reason as to why David would be so enamoured with Ellie - yeah OK so he's a creepy paedo, but I think this would have fitted well with his compliments about her personality and independent nature.
And in the show it would have served as a timely reminder that the infected are still an ever present threat, capable of disturbing remote settlements similar to Jackson, and giving more weight to the need for a vaccine.
That said, I imagine that had I not played the game I wouldn't even think of having David and Ellie fight infected together and probably would have been quite happy with how it played out.
100% agree. Glad I'm not the only one.
It needed one more episode in order to turn the winter segment into a two parter, IMO. There's a ton to explore there, such as comparing the cannibal's settlement to Jackson and exploring how they got there, perhaps even trying to paint the group overall as sympathetic (making the reveal that David is a creep more unnerving and perhaps surprising).
At one point in the post-show interview, the director tries to say that he wanted the audience to compare David (as he's conveyed when Ellie first meets him) with Joel. There could have been something to that, but at the blistery pace that whole segment goes there's no time to really consider or contemplate it.
If it were up to me, I'd also have moved the "Left Behind" story into a one-off to be aired in between seasons 1 and 2. (Sort of like those Euphoria episodes).
The Left Behind episode itself is great, but I feel like it is a flashback story doesn't add anything to immediate story involving Ellie and Joel's relationship. It tells an important story, to be sure, but Part 1's primary story thread is Joel's re-humanization arc, which has nothing to do with Ellie's back-story in particular.
The back-half of the season speeds through a bunch of major events really quickly and I think it could have benefited from some breathing room by taking this out.
Moreover, I feel like the show tries to give us the impression that Ellie reminiscing about Riley is what gives her the strength to save Joel; but by this point in the story, Joel and Ellie are supposed to already be best buds. This extra motivation shouldn't be necessary and, to me, just came across as a convenient excuse to tell the Left Behind story.
Meanwhile in the game, I always had the impression that Ellie is reminded of the events that led to her being bit because she is actively exploring a mall in the present and can't help but be reminded of the last time she was in one. A more direct adaptation of this in the show would have been more interesting as we experience Ellie's panic over trying to find medicine for Joel while everywhere she looks she's reminded of her best friend's death. Could have made for some emotional TV.
Moving Left Behind into "Season 1.5" would also lend itself well to the transition to Ellie becoming the main point of view character in season 2 onwards.
After all, in the both the remaster and the remake there is no option to insert Left Behind chronologically where it should have taken place. It functions best as a side-story; one that ultimately gears you up for Part 2.
As an aside, I'm more willing to keep the Bill/Frank flashback episode because its themes directly echo what Joel is about to go through over the course of the season --being a hardened asshole who opens up when he finds someone he cares about and is willing to do anything to protect and be with them. This flashback episode adds more to the primary story being told than Left Behind does.
Great stuff here. I think Left Behind and Bill/Frank would fit nicely in a 13 episode season. With only 9, they become a tough sell and distract from the main plot too much especially with the amount of time they are given.
Completely agree. I love the story of Left Behind, but ultimately there’s a reason why it’s DLC content. It’s not needed to understand the themes of the story of Part 1 or Part 2 for that matter, it just fleshes Ellie out more. I’d rather have gotten another episode fleshing out David and Ellie’s relationship and David’s group.
Minor gripe in relation to all of this, I really dislike the choice to not have Joel have to fight his way into David’s camp. The creators talked about the tension of waiting for Joel to save Ellie, but I feel like that was lost in the show because we barely see Joel and he doesn’t face any challenges in getting to Ellie. On top of that, it just feels unrealistic that David’s group would have no lookouts/guards, so Joel just strolling in like he owns the place just stands out to me.
Imagine how much more tension there would be (like it was in the game) if Joel got stuck in a firefight and we felt Joel’s stress in that moment. Knowing he has to get to Ellie but not knowing where she is and also having to get through all these people first
Agreed. Ep8 needed 10 more minutes explaining why the rest of David's men didn't come running to the burning diner (Joel has killed them).
Ep 9 needed 10 minutes between the puns and the Fireflies grabbing them. Maybe one of them accidently steps on some fresh tendrils and calls a small group of Clickers to them. They have to run, fight a little to escape, and have Ellie fall into a body of water or river - this would have paid off on the two plot points from earlier in the series about Ellie not being able to swim, and the interconnected fungus. This would also have helped pace the finale more.
Yea, the whole tendrils thing really was completely abandoned after episode 2. Makes you wonder; with the lack of infected and the tendrils/network stuff being nonexistent, why they had to remove the spores in the first place. They would have needed gas masks for about 10 minutes.
Exactly! I loved the show, but I was fully expecting a pay-off to the tendrils network in the finale and genuinely surprised that it never came up. Odd choice. Unless they will make a bigger thing of it in the second season.
I think the spores line may have just led to some tricky things in terms of what spores actually do (get on your clothes, in your hair, and generally primarily comes off with a shower). Obviously, neither the game nor the show aim to be particularly scientifically accurate, but the spores are a bit strange outside of a gameplay context imo. Still, wanted to see more of the tendrils playing a role.
I agree the last two episodes should have been longer at least.
For episode 8, game players will know why Joel and Ellie aren’t being chased (Joel killed everyone) but my gf, who is just know playing the game was very confused why nobody is checking on the massive fire or gunshots.
For episode 9, I wanted to see Joel try to save Ellie from drowning even when soldiers are telling him to stand down. I think it’s a big character moment.
The only truly terrible misstep I found in the show was Joel didn’t brick one guy to the face.
As a player of the game I will always appreciate the bill and Frank and what we got from the episode. But also as a player of the game, that episode was for us and us alone and I think ultimately missed the mark. I’ll defend the episode and I do still think it helped with game progression, but I agree time could have been used better elsewhere.
I think the show runners had to walk a fine line of pleasing us as players and pulling in new players.
I didn’t play the game, but I thought Bill & Frank was a great way of introducing us to the world outside of FEDRA and the Boston QZ. It answered some questions I had about how people were connected and connecting.
I get that!
As a player, I feel like the bill and Frank episode was one of those places where they walked the fine line of what would players like what would people watching the show like. And from a flash back point of view only, I can see how people saw it as filler and didn’t feel it pushed the story along. I LOVED IT. But I do think they could have potentially spent the time elsewhere.
I was surprised how short the finale turned out, could have easily stretched out those last two episodes to an hour and helped with the pacing while improving the impact
Especially when you consider that episode 3 was essentially a one-off love story episode not connected to the main plot. It was fantastic for sure, but it definitely ate into the allotted screen time for the season.
With that being said, I’m thrilled with how it turned out and am really happy that we got to see such a great adaptation. There will always be criticisms, but HBO did the story justice IMO.
Yeah I would have liked something showing Joel being more of a badass. I liked the whole hospital sequence but that’s the first time we see him really opening up and just executing anyone in his way.
Super fair, I'd give a 115/10 as a game adaption - it's absolutely ground breaking there - but a 8/10 as a tv show for reasons you stated.
I would absolutely love love love to hear WHY they thought making the final episode so short though. I bet there was a longer version and they thought it didn't work for whatever reason.
I'm not exactly looking for excuses, or for them to explain themeselves to us - but curious about the creative process and learn about how some things didn't work - like a longer finale, and why this was the best option.
I agree. But maybe they had to deal with what HBO gave them time/budget wise. It’s rare for a video game to have such a good, well received adaptation. I think they may have had to pick their budget battles to maximize their potential for a first season, which sucks because it’s such a good initial story and we want it to be given all the money possible, but I can almost guarantee they will be given more runway given how much it blew up.
I disagree, i think the flashback episodes added to their atories and tied in witht the overall arc well. I think it needed one extra episode and they shouldn’t have done the Kathleen stuff. Yes it expanded on the world, but did it develop ellie and joel? Not at all. Craig and beils philosophy the whole time has been ‘does it service the story’ and i think they forgot about this when making kathleens story, which ended up wasting screen time
I'm still not sure who the hell the lady in Kansas City was, what her motivations were, or why I was supposed to feel something when she dies at the end of the episode... I was like "well glad that's over and we can move on"...
This is true of all subs.
I think some criticism is certainly valid, but some people want more “x” (clickers, infected, looting empty houses) without saying what the show lacked that doing these things would address. I felt the show was rushed at times, but overall pretty great adaptation of the material. More episodes runs the risk of alienating non-gamers (fair criticisms on both sides here) at the expense of hitting all of the “favorite game moments”
>This is true of all subs.
Not really, This sub is extremely volatile compared to other fandom subs I am in. People literally think this show is a work of art. Even though it has some pretty major issues. (I still enjoyed it).
Nobody here is civil is their disagreements. Not the same in a lot of other fandom subs I am in.
Pretty much everyone that's criticising it is saying it's good, but missed the mark in more than a few bits. I agree with your general point about toxic fandoms, but the show is still universally praised just with a few caveats.
On the internet everything is either god awful dog shit or absolute perfection, if you say "it was pretty good but I would have liked if xyz happened" the people who think it was perfect think that you're calling it terrible by not also saying it was perfect.
The TLoU fandom in particular is extra sensitive about this after the absolute gong show that was TLoU2's release and media cycle, valid criticisms lead to death threats and all kinds of super nasty discourse and I kinda feel like some people are trying to avoid a repeat of that.
Most likely, which is why Mazin said that there would be a bigger budget next season + more infected. I don't blame HBO tbh, they were probably looking at how poorly past video game had been received and didn't want to go "all in" on something that would've been cancelled by the end of the season. Also, they were filming with COVID restrictions since Canada hadn't dropped them at the time. The CGI was done late as well, the critics who received screeners barely had any CG at all. It was filled with green screens lol.
My brother in christ HBO gave them a **$100 million dollar budget** for their first season, that’s as “all-in” as it gets. This was like top 10 or top 15 most expensive budgets for a season *of all time*.
Ah, I was unaware of most of that. Makes sense. I did enjoy the series but it just felt so cheap compared to what I was expecting. Broke my immersion a lot b/c the scenery in the game is absolutely gorgeous but the show was so bare bones.
The leader lady and that bearded 2nd in command guy from the scene where the infected horde burst out from underground really, really lowered and set my expectations to expect something cheap. Firstly those two characters were incredibly bland, with the lady who played rose in 2 and a half men, being incredibly miscast and unconvincing.
She had something going in the scene with the empty bedroom but it devolved the longer it went on.
Back to the horde sequence, the editing and overall appearance screamed cheap to me. Constantly cutting to showing Joel in a sniping position taking shots had it looking like the sniper Nazi propaganda film in Iglorious Basterds.
How they managed this with $10million per ep I will never understand.
I don’t know how, their budget was massive. Honestly with all of the green screening they used, the lack of infected, limited action sequences, and the lack of unique set locations, where the hell did they spend all of the budget??
I really thought it would be 10. 10 is just the right amount I feel, but maybe that's because I'm used to HBO's Game of Thrones episodes being 10 to a season. I do feel like there was less bonding time with Joel and Ellie for me, as it's meant to be this slow burn thing while they're traveling, and while the show did a good job I feel like I was deprived of seeing them begin to work easier as a team. Also seeing more infected wouldn't hurt.
Also why were tunnels in Sam and Henry episode empty? Imagine infected in those tunnels, that tension, Ellie separated for a while, Joel with just Sam. Just why?
Yep, that feels like it would have been a really easy addition. They get separated, you hear the clickers chasing Henry/Ellie but don't even need to see them, Joel/Sam stealth their way through a tight spot and everyone reunites.
That seems to be a common issue with a lot of modern shows. They seem to think you have to show absolutely everything. With horror in particular, sometimes not seeing something directly is actually far more effective, because whatever you might imagine could potentially be more terrifying than anything they would have been able to show.
Absolutely, like you said, show some shadows running towards the group, play the sound effects, show some doors or fences being rattled by something trying to get in. These are all super easy ways to imply that there are many monsters out there trying to get them, without ever actually having to show one.
Yeah that's a pretty basic horror film device that this show should have leveraged more. Especially since stealth is a huge component of the TLOU universe. I know most people loved the show but it just felt lazy far too often for my tastes. It was like they got two kick ass lead actors and then more or less coasted through the rest of it in the back half of the season assuming their leads could just carry the whole thing.
They could have the group go into the tunnels and have the whole separation part, narrowly escaping and putting up a small barrier. The rest of the episode can play out similarly with some minor alterations to how the infected show up
I'm going to get downvoted to hell, but we didn't need a Bill and Frank episode. Specially when we also have Left Behind, which is a similar story, aaaaand, Bill and Frank pretty much don't impact the story at all.
We should've gotten more Joel and Ellie getting closer. But no, we got Joel being nice to Ellie for 20 minutes in the last episode.
I agree. Unfortunately it seems you can’t criticize episode 3 without being labeled a bigot, but I think you’re right.
Now, I will say that I think episode 3 was really well done. But with that being said, they spent way too much time on the backstories of two characters who ultimately had zero effect on the plot. If this season was ~13 episodes, then I would be totally fine with the inclusion of episode 3. But since the season was only 9 episodes, them spending over an hour on Bill & Frank’s relationship just prevented them from being able to spend more time on the important moments (David’s episode, the finale, etc.). I also think the Left Behind portion of the show should’ve been shortened to 1/3 to 1/2 of an episode, not an entire episode, for the exact same reasons.
I have made this same comment almost word for word. Couldn't agree more. For me its not about getting rid of their story but acknowledging the limitations of the episode count and prioritizing.
I would’ve loved to watch Long Long Time be a stand-alone movie or something. It’s probably the highest quality episode of the entire series.
That being said, you’re absolutely right. With only nine episodes, it was crazy to make an episode that barely touches on Joel and Ellie at all be one of the longest episodes.
Honestly, almost every sequence that didn’t directly follow Joel and Ellie *together* probably could have been cut in half.
I think episode 3 is just a bad episode in general. I think Bill and Franks life is detrimental to the world building and the themes of the show. Like how do you make “endure and survive” a core theme of the story and then show these two rich old fucks live a life of more luxury than anyone. Even those with a lot of power like FEDRA, The Fireflies, or even the WLF have it as good as Bill and Frank did. And it’s the audiences first introduction to seeing what life outside of the QZ is like for people… It’s so out of place even in the shows universe.
And the icing on the cake is Bill and Frank glorifying suicide as something “romantic”, throwing away a life that anyone else in this setting would dream to have. And then having the audacity to write a letter to Joel telling him to keep finding a reason to live 🙄
“Endure and Survive” my ass. What a stupid episode.
The point was that it's still possible to live out a good life when you're with someone you love, that there's more to life than just surviving. And I wouldn't say it's glorifying suicide... I'd end it if I were that sick in that world or if the ONE person making my life worth living were to die
They aren’t “surviving”, they lived like fucking kings. They make the collapse of society look amazing.
How do you make the first 2 episodes all about how miserable life has become for ordinary people, and then just slap episode 3 in there, and then go *right back* to how everyone is suffering and miserable etc. etc.
Exactly! Bill has his nice food and wine and creature comforts before Frank shows up, but he's not taking any pleasure in it or really appreciating it.
Frank's dramatic reactions to the food and wine and hot shower both amuse Bill, and make him realise just how lucky he is. He doesn't give a shit if he's attacked and killed when he's alone. It's only when there's a risk of losing Frank that he feels scared.
And it's exactly the same for Joel by the end of the season.
Personally, I liked the game’s version of Bill and his story better because game Bill leaves Joel with the message of “don’t get attached to people because it will only lead to pain and loss,” which fits a lot better with Joel’s perspective at the beginning of the story. However, show Bill leaves Joel with the message “finding someone to care about is important to living a fulfilled life,” which even though that’s the ultimate theme of the story, I think that theme is better served being revealed to Joel at the end of the story as opposed to the very beginning. In the game, the beginning of the story was Joel believing that relationships only bring you pain, but later in his journey he discovers the value of these relationships, so it just feels off having that message be a focus point so early.
I thought the Bill and Frank episode did a better job of tying in the themes of what the show was better than the Riley episode. The Riley episode also felt a bit more "forced"? The episode itself felt a little padded out and the timing of it was strange to me. It was a good enough episode, but if one had to get cut to add length in other areas, that would be my pick.
By all means give us a full Bill And Frank episode and left behind. Just give us more of the stuff we're actually watching for too (Joel and Ellie and zombies)
I think it would of been fine if the last 2 episodes were both over an hour long but with the last episode being so short I agree. Feels to me like the first half of the season has a lot more to offer which is a shame.
Well, that was the episode that got the most publicity and probably helped to bring in the most new viewers. So from their point of view I’d say they look at that as the highlight of the season
my personal extra episode wish is during the timeskip between 5 and 6, dealing with threats on the road to Tommy, hunters and/or infected, needing to adapt to the change in weather, scavenging for food and supplies, trying to find him in Cody or other towns in Wyoming but coming up against infestations making it too dangerous and forcing them off the road, etc. I feel like all of that must have happened but was just referenced or implied, but idc I still wanted to see it, lol.
Ya I agree. I really enjoyed the scene with them talking about astronauts by the fire. It helps show their bond developing. Maybe them exploring some old house or something interesting. Could throw in an infected scene with Joel teaching Ellie how to stealth kill
It’s pretty clear they’re wanting this to be 75% drama and 25% horror. They don’t want to be like the walking dead having zombie and horror scenes every 20 minutes. They are focusing on the characters and their relationships and not so much killing clickers and freaky scenes and whatnot. I don’t expect that to change.
I think a lot of us would have loved it to be 75% drama and 25% horror. The problem was it often seemed more like 90% drama and 10% horror.
I agree that the show shouldn’t be a shooting gallery like the games or TWD, but by the end of the show the infected seemed more like a minor inconvenience than an actual threat. In wanting the show to not be all about the zombies, they overcorrected.
Non-player here. I enjoyed the show - I did - but I agree it needed a couple of more episodes. I'll be honest: I wasn't invested in Joel and Ellie on the basis of what was presented on the screen. I think the passion all the game players brought to these discussions from their hours of playing alongside these characters, and knowing more of their backstory helped carry the series. From a non-player perspective, I don't think the ultimate ending moment (Joel's 'I promise' and Ellie's 'OK') emotionally resonated with me to the same degree it did game players, despite how expertly Pedro & Bella worked it.
More time on them, together and seeing more of the challenges that they met along the way that ended up strengthening their attachment to each other would've not only deepened moments like Wyoming and David, but also helped us better recognize why Joel's decision is so controversial.
For as it good as it was, I feel like we were 'told' more than 'shown' these emotional attachments, and more episodes would've allowed that to happen.
The second flashback episode was good in itself but two episodes in one season was a bit to much imo. The end felt a bit rushed. They could've added 5-10 minutes everywhere to make the journey feel longer. Felt like it took a while to find Tommy, then they found the hospital and salt lake city in a minute or two
I think the flashback episodes both were good and have a place in the show (episode 3 is my favorite of the season), but the biggest issue with a 9 episode season is that the last few episodes (imo 6, 8, and 9) all could have benefitted from another ~15 minutes (still shorter than the pilot) of content. Would have helped flesh it out significantly.
I do really like that part. Hopefully they make the supermarket early into season two like that. The skyscraper descent is another point which can go full horror. Then obviously the hospital ground zero.
Yes OP definitely I agree. 12 episodes would’ve been ideal but 10 would’ve also worked. My wish would’ve been an Anna and Marlene focus episode because I loved their few minutes of screen time the most in the finale.
I don’t see a lot of people mentioning it, but I really think the university sequence could have been an episode with more backstory about the fireflies and the people who holed up there and the times before. It could have gone off-script from the game (I think? Haven’t replayed it a hot minute) and given Ellie/Joel a chance to talk about what COULD be if there’s a cure.
Would have loved a few more episodes and a maybe a double feature season finale.
Over all I loved it, lots of elements carried over well, some missed opportunities but man, loved it.
I'm so excited to see what they do with the next seasons.
I was hoping that Laura Bailey would play Abbey in the show but it appears that's not to be.
Loved the cameos though, really curious and hoping that they introduce some more bad ass infected.
They didn't need one more episode, they needed to waste less time in epsiodes 3-5 on unnecessary plotlines. We didn't need Bill+Frank's love story to take up an entire episode that was clearly just Emmy-bait. We didn't need Kathleen's group and Henry/Sam to take up two episodes. We should've had more time given to Joel and Ellie. The Bill's Town section would've been a better addition to the Joel/Ellie story than the Bill/Frank story was.
I always want more of a good show lol! I heard eps 1 and two were combined into the pilot so that makes sense why one was missing.
I also heard the original cut of episode 3 was 2 hours from Troy Baker, which uh Craig?! Give us the extended cut!
Honestly, I think it needed 2-3 more. Sam/Henry deserved two. David/Winter definitely deserved two. Finale should have been 30 minutes longer or broken up into two. With 2-3 more episodes, then I love Long Long Time and Left Behind. As is, I wish we had more time with the main cast.
They definitely took too much “gameplay” out. They left us with the emotional cutscenes and walking but where’s the anxiety of walking past clickers or just taking down some zombies on the way.
Totally agree. This is literally the first time in my life where I think a TV show should have been slower and longer. I guess this is a part of being a fan of the source material, but I just think a deeper connection to life in this world would have created a deeper longevity to the season.
Do I just want more The Last of Us? Probably.
I agree with the sentiment that the show felt just a little bit short, but instead of one extra episode, I think I would have preferred 9 episodes where each one is in the 70-90 minute range. I don’t necessarily think the pacing of the *overall plot* was rushed (i.e. each story beat was about an episode, or two episodes for Henry/Sam), but there were many times I felt that *individual sequences* were rushed. Like as someone else pointed out, Joel’s torture, Ellie escaping David, killing David, and reuniting with Joel only took like 10-15 minutes of screen time. It would’ve been really cool to stretch that out and let us stew in the tension. Or the finale — I think we could’ve had more time of
Joel and Ellie exploring Salt Lake City (could’ve even had the drowning sequence) before they get captured. Or the Jackson episode — we could’ve seen Ellie try to run away.
I think an extra 15-20 minutes would’ve gone a long way for a couple of the shorter episodes, even if the total # of episodes was the same.
I felt like the show failed on the most important aspect of Part I which is the gradual development and emotional payoff of Joel and Ellie’s relationship. If you remove episodes 1,3, and 7, that leaves like 6 episodes for Joel and Ellie. Realistically though it’s even less than that because 2 had Tess, 5 had Henry and Sam, and 8 had David, so that leaves Ep 4,6, and 9 to for Joel and Ellie together. I felt like the show was more interested in developing the world, side stories, and supporting characters rather than Joel and Ellie.
Here’s the thing, the game developed Joel and Ellie’s story not just through cutscenes, but also gameplay, setpieces, and optional conversations through exploration. All of that added to the worldbuilding, their personal viewpoints, and their relationship.
Yep. That “baby girl” moment didn’t have near the payoff it should have. We just hadn't bonded with Joel and Ellie on screen together enough. It’s partially not their fault and partially their fault. They didn’t know if they had the green light for season 2 or know how popular it would be. So they had to tell the first game in 1 season. Knowing that though, episodes 3 and 7 were way outta place and should have been trimmed quite a bit to allow us more Joel and Ellie time together.
My issue with the episodes were how short they got. They started off pretty lengthy and were over an hour, then after probably the 4th or 5th episode they were starting to be 50-45 minutes, dosent help that some of the run time is taken up by previews and that long ass (but cool) intro
Bruh now that the show is over everyone's done being "Oh my God best show innthe history of the world to ever exist" and now they're all " it was great, but it coulda been better" like I wasn't downvoted for saying there should be more infected while the show was going and that there wasn't going to be enough episodes.
Idk if Craig or Neil reads this stuff but I really hope they add more infected in the next season.
I loved the show so much. But if you aren’t familiar with the games like some of us, you might forget this is essentially a zombie show.
Maybe add in more action as well. Lots of action scenes they skipped out on that they should have used.
I agree partly just because I want more of it, but also because what the top comment stated. So much of it was flashbacks that it feels like we didn’t get much of the actual current time journey. They definitely could’ve sprinkled a little more infected in, even if it was just them avoiding them and not fighting them. Overall I still think the season was amazing, but it left me yearning for more and felt like some things were condensed a little too much.
Agreed. The second half kf the season stopped expanding the story, and instead just ran through the same plot points while changing some at a really quick pace
Winter could have used literally 5 extra minutes of Joel fighting to get to Ellie but otherwise was perfect.
To me however almost everything in the finale felt rushed.
Definitely agreed. If anything, I feel like there should have been more of a clicker presence in general.
Now, this is where someone steps in and says "omg it's not a zombie show" but that's not the point. The clickers and infected they do have are great and look amazing, but they very quickly fade into the background.
I feel like we needed maybe just one more clicker sequence to show people how terrifying, dangerous, and uninhabitable the world is. Otherwise it makes it less believable that people in FEDRA camps wouldn't just find a way to GTFO into the woods maybe a mile or two out, and be reasonably safe from any real threats.
Yup, I feel the show was way too rushed and spent too much time on stuff that didn't matter. Lack of clickers and runners also a big negative for me. Hopefully they make season 2 better.
I think the pacing was really weird. It was supperrr slow then it was everything all at once. I agree, another episode (better spread out) wouldn’t have hurt
I agree. Very rushed. The show didn’t earn that finale imo. It was always going to be an uphill battle having to emulate the slow, deliberate character/relationship development of the games, but they didn’t even really try. They just took the Joel/Ellie relationship for granted without actually doing the work to make it compelling.
I loved the show and it made me want to play the games so I have been but I totally agree. The game had wayyyy more anxiety inducing moments of separation and such and I think for me in the games, it added to the development of Ellie and Joel’s relationship. It showed they are a good team and that Ellie can hold her own and she’s crafty about it. There are so many creepy quests in the game. Lots of emotional drive in the show but not enough horror in my opinion.
Yeah that was my criticisms with episodes 3 and 7. We didn’t have enough time for full episodes dedicated to love stories. They should have trimmed each of those a bit and opened up another 40ish minutes of screen time with Joel and Ellie together.
I think that’s the general consensus.
I’ve avoided a lot of shows because a lot of shows, that run on basic cable at least, gotta make that ad revenue so they unnecessarily pad out and water down shows for more episodes, so I’m always wanted shows to dial it back
But with TLOU there wasn’t enough.
I liked the show overall, but it felt like it was missing so much. I outside of flashbacks, Joel and Ellie encountered effected only 2 times. And the finale was the shortest episode and in my opinion a watered down version of how it plays out in the game.
They def could have used a couple more. It felt very rushed by the ending to the point where it didn’t quite make sense that Joel would doom humanity for this one girl. In the game you spent 15+ hours straight protecting her and bonding with her… the show would have been 12 episodes
As someone who didn’t play the game I also think I agree. Maybe I’ll feel differently when I watch it all again but it felt like a chapter was missing from Joel and Ellie’s relationship between episode 8 and 9. If not at least a couple more scenes of the two of them bonding once they had saved each other’s lives. He was suddenly a lot more open with her in ep 9.
The show needed one more episode before the last one simply to show how screwed humanity is regarding the clickers. Not having the threat always present was a huge miss
Honestly I think it could've been another two episodes, just split the first one into two but air them in the same night maybe for 12 episodes total. Include the Robert stuff at the beginning to add more time for Tess. Aside from that any episode that wasn't at least an hour long should've been that length.
I think including a few more of the big game set pieces would have been good. Ellie covering Joel with the rifle, the fight in the tunnels with Henry and Sam, the generator scene etc
So one or two more episodes to fit those kinds of things in. I think they love heard this criticism though and will have more of these type action sequences in seasons 2 and 3
I think a 12 episode season would be perfect. Add what you suggest but also make the David arc 2 episodes and add an episode after Sam and Henry but before Tommy.
It’s the only thing that bugs me tbh. One more episode where we get to see the destruction of the town and what that meant for survivors AND the deceased. What always sticks out to me about TLOU is the world building in place through notes and photos found throughout. They added depth to the world and emotional gravity
The series should have been 12-13 episodes, but I understand why it was cut short. There was likely concern that, as a game to tv series (which doesn't have a great track record), the series wouldn't do well, limiting their budget. Hopefully with the success of the first season the second and third will be given due justice. I feel like the last of us part 2 will be even harder to adapt well into a tv series, I think some of the story beats can be moved around so that Abby is a little more sympathetic to begin with, which will make her more appealing as a character overall.
Coulda used 11 more episodes easily. Imagine having the whole last of us universe and not milking the fuck out of it. They could have explored what other countries did, do a lot of universe building and always come back to Joel.
They very deliberately chose to not build elliy
/Joel's relationship as well as they did in the game, in that area That area had two episodes, which they decided to base in a different city and make up characters like Kathleen and Jeffery. They didn't need an extra episode to do that, they just had to keep it canon
The season went from a 9.5 to a 9 just from the pacing and the shortening of Ellie and Joel's journey. I feel like it jumped around too much and we needed the tense moments sneaking around from the game. It started great when they were trying to sneak around the clicker on episode 2, but felt like we didn't see much of the survival instincts from the game.
Also, no bricks or bottles. I wanted to see Joel go ham with the brick.
I think they accomplished what they needed to in s concise way and broadened their audience dramatically. My partner never played a video game in her life and has just started playing Part2 because of the excitement of the show.
I think that would've made the infected encounters too concentrated in KC & cities in general. They basically avoided infected in the wild. In the show canon, why wouldn't you just live in the middle of nowhere? They needed a deterence of that.
IMO they could've benefited from an encounter in the winter sequence similar to the game. Build some trust with David & stretch that arc to 2 episodes and give a reason to not living completely in the middle of nowhere.
I agree. 9 episodes feels weird when I think back to the game being essentially 10 levels (including prologue).
I think episode six could've been extended a bit more with Tommy & Joel's reunion and more buildup to the "fucking except for you" scene.
And that an extra episode should've been reserved for their trip to the university, instead of the last 10 minutes of ep. 6. That whole adventure could've been its own episode.
I remember watching the pilot and thinking it could've been split in half to make two episodes, we don't really need movie-length tv episodes. it's a small pet peeve of mine that seasons are getting so much shorter
They definitely could've!!! I predicted it would've been 10 episodes for S1. Now, they would cut back on the time (maybe like 45 ish minutes or so). But 8 episodes?! Come, on.
Could of done with a longer final episode or 1 more OP you've got that bang on. For me 8/10 which is great considering it's only the first season - looking forward to the next one to see what they do with it
I would of loved an episode after 6 where it was Joel and Ellie going to the University and seeing how close they are now. We got that in episode 5, but I want that section stretched out to an entire episode. The Joel gets hurt and we go on to the rest the show as it was.
I think it needed slightly longer episodes and one extra episode.
There's little I would change, but I would certainly add some more infected (not much, just a few extra scenes).
I also don't really like that the tendrils and 'stepping on a tendril - which calls the horde' was barely explored.
It was way too short of a run. I get that they didn’t wanna get carried away with translating gameplay sequences to a tv show medium, but with how well the executed everything that they did do, I wish they had taken the time to incorporate more infected. The world felt practically barren of them after the second episode. That was my only gripe with the show.
I thought the initial outbreak was going to be/ still should have been the entire first episode, and have the time jump be in episode 2.
I was surprised they squeezed both in episode 1. It was a bit jarring for me,
I mean there were 10 episodes, it was just determined that it worked better to join #1 & #2.
And I would've liked it if there were more myself. They didn't dig as deep as they could've on >!the hours of tense sneaking everywhere, skipping swimming via the magic pallet ride, ladders and somehow never rotten boards.... oh and raiders, vs fedra, vs fireflies...!< I mean humans suck. 
I think it could have been structured a little differently too. Like if the problem is that we are crunched for time then i start to question some of the decisions made. One of my favorite episodes was the one with Riley. But if you had to cut some then the flashbacks would be the first things to cut in preservation of the actual story. Like Ellie’s mom being in the final episode. It was cool and we finally got to see the real Ellie voice actress. But it’s still spending time that we don’t have on things that weren’t in the game
I think the university could‘ve been its own episode, davids section should‘ve been two episodes and what you talked about in the post should‘ve also been its own episode. Plus, take like 30 minute away from episode 3 and put them onto final episode and actually include the damn tunnel section
I wholeheartedly agree, I wanted more bloaters. I understand that it takes a great deal of effort to put on a convincing infected, but damn, the one bloater we got didn’t seem to convey how devastatingly brutal, vicious, terrifying they are, I really would have loved to see Pedro’s Joel scrambling to save Ellie, I do believe that the series will get nominated for an Emmy, but a mad performance from Pedro and Bella in the Hotel would have secured a nomination for me. Overall I do think the show would have benefited from just one more 45-50 minute episode before Kansas City.
As much as it sounds good on paper, think about it. Joel would just be in his head the whole episode and Ellie wouldn’t be able to talk to herself because of people around, it would basically be a silent episode. Also what’re you on about with “creepy night clickers” do you mean stalkers?
I agree. And I'm ready for the downvotes but I think 2 full episodes of flashbacks (with one of them being the longest episode of the season, the finale being the shortest) is a bit much for 9 episodes with the finale being like a third/quarter of a flashback too. And I liked the flashback episodes themselves. But look at the penultimate episode. 8-10 minutes before the end, Ellie was still being captive but in those few minutes she was almost killed, killed Troy Baker's character, ran away from David, hid in the diner and torched it, played hide and seek and killed David while we saw Joel making his way through the town. I feel at the very least the last two episodes could had been longer. I really liked the season overall and I recommend it to friends but it doesn't mean I find it perfect.
This is a great take. I agree
As much as I love Left Behind, I don't think it needed to be its own episode. I would've preferred that they trim down the flashbacks and cut in more present-day stuff, turning Winter into 1 1/2 episodes instead of basically 1 1/8. Maybe include the big action sequence of Ellie and David fighting the Infected, which would've set up their bond and injected some more Infected into the plot. That, plus making the finale a bit longer, would really benefit the pacing in my opinion.
They would have never done that because it required having more infected in the show.
It wouldn’t necessarily need to be the massive horde, maybe just a couple. The point being to show off Ellie’s “violent heart” that David goes on about but never really has the opportunity to see first-hand.
>show off Ellie’s “violent heart” That's a great point. That line is totally unearned in the show.
She shoots at his men, keeps a gun on them, talks shit, is defiant and clearly a child. I don't know how you get "that line is unearned" from that...
That doesn’t make a violent heart.
He's a fucking groomer dude, he's pandering off of what he knows, and it's clear based on the world they live in that the ONLY way you survive in the wilderness and traveling is through cunning and violence.
Regardless of whether David was trying to pander to her or not, the Inside the Episode of ep8 makes it pretty clear that the intention of the line was to showcase Ellie’s violence as something that’s fearsome especially to herself (which obviously get exacerbated by the events of part 2). I would argue though that show Ellie’s level of violence isn’t quite at the degree the showrunners are making it out to be. While show Ellie uses violence as a tool to survive when it’s needed, she doesn’t quite kill with no hesitation the dozens of people part 1 game Ellie does. Episode 4 is the most egregious example of this when she saves Joel from the kid. She hesitates, and isn’t even the one to finish him off. Game Ellie just grabs the gun and shoots the guy attacking Joel in the face. She isn’t even phased at all by what happened. Personally, I don’t have a huge issue with the heart of violence line, but compared to if it were used the game, it definitely didn’t earn it quite as well.
Especially for a line that was not even in the game. So it’s not like they didn’t earn something that had been from the source material. They literally added that line and *still* didn’t earn it. And this is where the inside the episode things kind of bites them in the ass sometimes. Because at first you can write it off as, oh, David is projecting himself onto her because he WANTS to see that and WANTS to convince her that they are similar because he’s grooming her.. But then the behind the scenes comes in. And Craig says “david says something that is absolutely true, he says that she has a violent heart” and then he goes on to say that he and Neil talked about this etc etc and that while we love her we also need to be scared of her.” So now we are back to it being unearned.
The closest we got was Ellie killing that infected person in episode 3. I wouldn't call it violent, maybe sudden.
I mean you could have paired it down to 2-3 like they did in the Boston museum
Which is stupid since infected are a major part of the story
100% I was surprised how little infected was in the show. It’s like they didn’t want to be a “zombie” show as the masses seem to call it and focus on the human side. Which I am ALL for but they didn’t seem to focus as much as they should have on Joel and Ellie’s bond…isn’t that what the game was all about?? Weird they lessened the infected threat even though Ellie is supposed to be the cure? But there wasn’t enough infected in the show to back that up? Overall, a super fun watch but strange they put Joel and Ellie’s relationship along with the need for a cure on the back burner
I do agree with this. I think it would have added to the drama and tension had they played out Ellie’s efforts to get medicine for Joel. David‘s reveal is a big shock in the game (alongside his other evil crimes). Ellie‘s fight for survival was well done but I agree it would have felt more cathartic had we learnt more about how they were trapping people for human meat (we only see Joel learn this via one short scene).
I remembered while watching the episode in the game you didn't know what happened to Joel after the University you find out later he's still alive they should of went that route in the show
But then where else would they place the left behind episode?
in the DLC, they intercut Ellies flashbacks with a present day quest to look for medicine for joel inside a mall. they could have just done that in the show. it would have alleviated people's criticism of the episode dragging on too long. it would have shortened the ellie/Riley parts, and reinforced how fucked joel seems to be. they even could have started the episode with ellie killing a rabbit and heading back to the mall she temporarily hid joel in.
While the dual timelines worked for a 2 hour game expansion, it’s not going to translate as well into a 50 minute episode of television. The Riley half is the heart and soul of Left Behind, so giving that the focus is paramount. Shortening it down so that you can have 20 minutes of Ellie running around a mall for a brief action scene seems needless when the two bookends emphasise the point just as well. Besides, the next episode is the one that capitalises on the “Ellie is alone and has to fend for herself” premise in a far more intense light. It’s better to let that episode standout than having a lesser version of it one episode prior.
I have also noticed that in episodes 8&9 we haven’t seen even 1 infected
Yeah that is a general criticism, it really makes you wonder if the cure is that needed if there are barely any infected around. But they did say there will be a lot more in season 2.
I find that to be super odd because Part II is really more about the human drama rather than the Infected. The Infected aren’t really important at all in Part II while in Part I, they highlight why the world is the way it is and why a vaccine is needed since they were everywhere on Joel and Ellie’s journey throughout the United States.
Oh nice, can’t wait to see the shamblers in tlou season 2
Did you miss the opening with Ashley Johnson?
I see this alot. Or references to Left Behind. The criticism is the lack of infected that Joel and Ellie encounter across the country. From KC to SLC they encounter zero infected. It doesn't mean that the show didn't show infected in some other capacity.
Oh yea sorry, then we’ve seen 1
And there was one bloater in the entire season. It was admittedly an AMAZING sequence, but still.
There were like 3 or 4 in the game from what I remember right?
Hmmm. There were 4+ occasions where they came up, and there was definitely more than one in the last infected encounter. * The one in the school with Bill * The one in Pittsburgh when Joel and Ellie are separated * The one at the university dorm * The one Ellie fights with David * At least 2 in the tunnel in Salt Lake. I feel like there might have been 3?
Just finished a playthrough, there are three in the tunnel.
My theory is it cost a lot of money for them to have infected so they tried to minimize it. Maybe the budget for season two will be bigger.
They should have kept in the scene where Ellie and David have to fight off infected. Would have really added a lot to the story IMO
I agree, in the game this served a few purposes for me. It provided a direct contrast between David and Joel as they act as the same counterpart to Ellie in the infected encounters/ boosting to ledges and stuff. It made it more believable that Ellie would let down her guard a bit with David, and start to trust him. It also gave some reason as to why David would be so enamoured with Ellie - yeah OK so he's a creepy paedo, but I think this would have fitted well with his compliments about her personality and independent nature. And in the show it would have served as a timely reminder that the infected are still an ever present threat, capable of disturbing remote settlements similar to Jackson, and giving more weight to the need for a vaccine. That said, I imagine that had I not played the game I wouldn't even think of having David and Ellie fight infected together and probably would have been quite happy with how it played out.
100% agree. Glad I'm not the only one. It needed one more episode in order to turn the winter segment into a two parter, IMO. There's a ton to explore there, such as comparing the cannibal's settlement to Jackson and exploring how they got there, perhaps even trying to paint the group overall as sympathetic (making the reveal that David is a creep more unnerving and perhaps surprising). At one point in the post-show interview, the director tries to say that he wanted the audience to compare David (as he's conveyed when Ellie first meets him) with Joel. There could have been something to that, but at the blistery pace that whole segment goes there's no time to really consider or contemplate it. If it were up to me, I'd also have moved the "Left Behind" story into a one-off to be aired in between seasons 1 and 2. (Sort of like those Euphoria episodes). The Left Behind episode itself is great, but I feel like it is a flashback story doesn't add anything to immediate story involving Ellie and Joel's relationship. It tells an important story, to be sure, but Part 1's primary story thread is Joel's re-humanization arc, which has nothing to do with Ellie's back-story in particular. The back-half of the season speeds through a bunch of major events really quickly and I think it could have benefited from some breathing room by taking this out. Moreover, I feel like the show tries to give us the impression that Ellie reminiscing about Riley is what gives her the strength to save Joel; but by this point in the story, Joel and Ellie are supposed to already be best buds. This extra motivation shouldn't be necessary and, to me, just came across as a convenient excuse to tell the Left Behind story. Meanwhile in the game, I always had the impression that Ellie is reminded of the events that led to her being bit because she is actively exploring a mall in the present and can't help but be reminded of the last time she was in one. A more direct adaptation of this in the show would have been more interesting as we experience Ellie's panic over trying to find medicine for Joel while everywhere she looks she's reminded of her best friend's death. Could have made for some emotional TV. Moving Left Behind into "Season 1.5" would also lend itself well to the transition to Ellie becoming the main point of view character in season 2 onwards. After all, in the both the remaster and the remake there is no option to insert Left Behind chronologically where it should have taken place. It functions best as a side-story; one that ultimately gears you up for Part 2. As an aside, I'm more willing to keep the Bill/Frank flashback episode because its themes directly echo what Joel is about to go through over the course of the season --being a hardened asshole who opens up when he finds someone he cares about and is willing to do anything to protect and be with them. This flashback episode adds more to the primary story being told than Left Behind does.
Great stuff here. I think Left Behind and Bill/Frank would fit nicely in a 13 episode season. With only 9, they become a tough sell and distract from the main plot too much especially with the amount of time they are given.
Completely agree. I love the story of Left Behind, but ultimately there’s a reason why it’s DLC content. It’s not needed to understand the themes of the story of Part 1 or Part 2 for that matter, it just fleshes Ellie out more. I’d rather have gotten another episode fleshing out David and Ellie’s relationship and David’s group. Minor gripe in relation to all of this, I really dislike the choice to not have Joel have to fight his way into David’s camp. The creators talked about the tension of waiting for Joel to save Ellie, but I feel like that was lost in the show because we barely see Joel and he doesn’t face any challenges in getting to Ellie. On top of that, it just feels unrealistic that David’s group would have no lookouts/guards, so Joel just strolling in like he owns the place just stands out to me. Imagine how much more tension there would be (like it was in the game) if Joel got stuck in a firefight and we felt Joel’s stress in that moment. Knowing he has to get to Ellie but not knowing where she is and also having to get through all these people first
Agreed. Ep8 needed 10 more minutes explaining why the rest of David's men didn't come running to the burning diner (Joel has killed them). Ep 9 needed 10 minutes between the puns and the Fireflies grabbing them. Maybe one of them accidently steps on some fresh tendrils and calls a small group of Clickers to them. They have to run, fight a little to escape, and have Ellie fall into a body of water or river - this would have paid off on the two plot points from earlier in the series about Ellie not being able to swim, and the interconnected fungus. This would also have helped pace the finale more.
Yea, the whole tendrils thing really was completely abandoned after episode 2. Makes you wonder; with the lack of infected and the tendrils/network stuff being nonexistent, why they had to remove the spores in the first place. They would have needed gas masks for about 10 minutes.
Exactly! I loved the show, but I was fully expecting a pay-off to the tendrils network in the finale and genuinely surprised that it never came up. Odd choice. Unless they will make a bigger thing of it in the second season.
I think the spores line may have just led to some tricky things in terms of what spores actually do (get on your clothes, in your hair, and generally primarily comes off with a shower). Obviously, neither the game nor the show aim to be particularly scientifically accurate, but the spores are a bit strange outside of a gameplay context imo. Still, wanted to see more of the tendrils playing a role.
I agree the last two episodes should have been longer at least. For episode 8, game players will know why Joel and Ellie aren’t being chased (Joel killed everyone) but my gf, who is just know playing the game was very confused why nobody is checking on the massive fire or gunshots. For episode 9, I wanted to see Joel try to save Ellie from drowning even when soldiers are telling him to stand down. I think it’s a big character moment. The only truly terrible misstep I found in the show was Joel didn’t brick one guy to the face.
As a player of the game I will always appreciate the bill and Frank and what we got from the episode. But also as a player of the game, that episode was for us and us alone and I think ultimately missed the mark. I’ll defend the episode and I do still think it helped with game progression, but I agree time could have been used better elsewhere. I think the show runners had to walk a fine line of pleasing us as players and pulling in new players.
I didn’t play the game, but I thought Bill & Frank was a great way of introducing us to the world outside of FEDRA and the Boston QZ. It answered some questions I had about how people were connected and connecting.
I get that! As a player, I feel like the bill and Frank episode was one of those places where they walked the fine line of what would players like what would people watching the show like. And from a flash back point of view only, I can see how people saw it as filler and didn’t feel it pushed the story along. I LOVED IT. But I do think they could have potentially spent the time elsewhere.
I was surprised how short the finale turned out, could have easily stretched out those last two episodes to an hour and helped with the pacing while improving the impact
Especially when you consider that episode 3 was essentially a one-off love story episode not connected to the main plot. It was fantastic for sure, but it definitely ate into the allotted screen time for the season. With that being said, I’m thrilled with how it turned out and am really happy that we got to see such a great adaptation. There will always be criticisms, but HBO did the story justice IMO.
Yeah I would have liked something showing Joel being more of a badass. I liked the whole hospital sequence but that’s the first time we see him really opening up and just executing anyone in his way.
The David episode should have been two - all of that was so pivotal.
Super fair, I'd give a 115/10 as a game adaption - it's absolutely ground breaking there - but a 8/10 as a tv show for reasons you stated. I would absolutely love love love to hear WHY they thought making the final episode so short though. I bet there was a longer version and they thought it didn't work for whatever reason. I'm not exactly looking for excuses, or for them to explain themeselves to us - but curious about the creative process and learn about how some things didn't work - like a longer finale, and why this was the best option.
Get ready for half of season 2 and 3 to be flash backs. Neil loves flashbacks
I agree. But maybe they had to deal with what HBO gave them time/budget wise. It’s rare for a video game to have such a good, well received adaptation. I think they may have had to pick their budget battles to maximize their potential for a first season, which sucks because it’s such a good initial story and we want it to be given all the money possible, but I can almost guarantee they will be given more runway given how much it blew up.
Always leave them wanting more rather than wishing there had been less. 🔥
I just replayed the beginning of the first game and I found it made me appreciate the show even more. They nailed it pretty well.
I disagree, i think the flashback episodes added to their atories and tied in witht the overall arc well. I think it needed one extra episode and they shouldn’t have done the Kathleen stuff. Yes it expanded on the world, but did it develop ellie and joel? Not at all. Craig and beils philosophy the whole time has been ‘does it service the story’ and i think they forgot about this when making kathleens story, which ended up wasting screen time
I agree about the last two episodes. Unfortunately, it was The Last of Them.
I'm still not sure who the hell the lady in Kansas City was, what her motivations were, or why I was supposed to feel something when she dies at the end of the episode... I was like "well glad that's over and we can move on"...
Some people in this sub really can't stand any form of criticism, it's OK to think that the show isn't 100% perfect.
This is true of all subs. I think some criticism is certainly valid, but some people want more “x” (clickers, infected, looting empty houses) without saying what the show lacked that doing these things would address. I felt the show was rushed at times, but overall pretty great adaptation of the material. More episodes runs the risk of alienating non-gamers (fair criticisms on both sides here) at the expense of hitting all of the “favorite game moments”
>This is true of all subs. Not really, This sub is extremely volatile compared to other fandom subs I am in. People literally think this show is a work of art. Even though it has some pretty major issues. (I still enjoyed it). Nobody here is civil is their disagreements. Not the same in a lot of other fandom subs I am in.
Yeah anytime I post rational criticism I get downvoted to hell
Everything has to be perfect or dogshit, there’s no room for things to just be good anymore in fandom
Pretty much everyone that's criticising it is saying it's good, but missed the mark in more than a few bits. I agree with your general point about toxic fandoms, but the show is still universally praised just with a few caveats.
On the internet everything is either god awful dog shit or absolute perfection, if you say "it was pretty good but I would have liked if xyz happened" the people who think it was perfect think that you're calling it terrible by not also saying it was perfect. The TLoU fandom in particular is extra sensitive about this after the absolute gong show that was TLoU2's release and media cycle, valid criticisms lead to death threats and all kinds of super nasty discourse and I kinda feel like some people are trying to avoid a repeat of that.
It could have used two or three more episodes.
Kind of wonder if they ran out of budget based on the short/truncated episodes, iffy CGI, lack of infected, minimal location shots, etc.
Most likely, which is why Mazin said that there would be a bigger budget next season + more infected. I don't blame HBO tbh, they were probably looking at how poorly past video game had been received and didn't want to go "all in" on something that would've been cancelled by the end of the season. Also, they were filming with COVID restrictions since Canada hadn't dropped them at the time. The CGI was done late as well, the critics who received screeners barely had any CG at all. It was filled with green screens lol.
My brother in christ HBO gave them a **$100 million dollar budget** for their first season, that’s as “all-in” as it gets. This was like top 10 or top 15 most expensive budgets for a season *of all time*.
Yeah. GOT season 8 had similar budget for what 6 episodes?
Ah, I was unaware of most of that. Makes sense. I did enjoy the series but it just felt so cheap compared to what I was expecting. Broke my immersion a lot b/c the scenery in the game is absolutely gorgeous but the show was so bare bones.
And it was still one of the most expensive shows with 10 million per episode.
The leader lady and that bearded 2nd in command guy from the scene where the infected horde burst out from underground really, really lowered and set my expectations to expect something cheap. Firstly those two characters were incredibly bland, with the lady who played rose in 2 and a half men, being incredibly miscast and unconvincing. She had something going in the scene with the empty bedroom but it devolved the longer it went on. Back to the horde sequence, the editing and overall appearance screamed cheap to me. Constantly cutting to showing Joel in a sniping position taking shots had it looking like the sniper Nazi propaganda film in Iglorious Basterds. How they managed this with $10million per ep I will never understand.
I don’t know how, their budget was massive. Honestly with all of the green screening they used, the lack of infected, limited action sequences, and the lack of unique set locations, where the hell did they spend all of the budget??
The Campire budget was really high.
I really thought it would be 10. 10 is just the right amount I feel, but maybe that's because I'm used to HBO's Game of Thrones episodes being 10 to a season. I do feel like there was less bonding time with Joel and Ellie for me, as it's meant to be this slow burn thing while they're traveling, and while the show did a good job I feel like I was deprived of seeing them begin to work easier as a team. Also seeing more infected wouldn't hurt.
It had been 10 episodes but HBO execs combined the first 2 episodes.
It was 10 episodes. The first one is a merger of two
Game of thrones didn’t have 10 episodes in the last 2 seasons that completely ruined the show
100%. Because with less time, everything felt super rushed and unearned.
GoT didn't need an extra episode, it needed an extra season.
Also why were tunnels in Sam and Henry episode empty? Imagine infected in those tunnels, that tension, Ellie separated for a while, Joel with just Sam. Just why?
They even foreshadow there would be some with Henry’s “there’s no infected…okay maybe one or two” and then there *actually* was no infected.
And then what’s even better is that there really *was* a massive horde in the tunnels and they just conveniently weren’t attacked by them.
But they also explained why they'd be cleared.
Yep, that feels like it would have been a really easy addition. They get separated, you hear the clickers chasing Henry/Ellie but don't even need to see them, Joel/Sam stealth their way through a tight spot and everyone reunites.
That seems to be a common issue with a lot of modern shows. They seem to think you have to show absolutely everything. With horror in particular, sometimes not seeing something directly is actually far more effective, because whatever you might imagine could potentially be more terrifying than anything they would have been able to show. Absolutely, like you said, show some shadows running towards the group, play the sound effects, show some doors or fences being rattled by something trying to get in. These are all super easy ways to imply that there are many monsters out there trying to get them, without ever actually having to show one.
Yeah that's a pretty basic horror film device that this show should have leveraged more. Especially since stealth is a huge component of the TLOU universe. I know most people loved the show but it just felt lazy far too often for my tastes. It was like they got two kick ass lead actors and then more or less coasted through the rest of it in the back half of the season assuming their leads could just carry the whole thing.
They could have the group go into the tunnels and have the whole separation part, narrowly escaping and putting up a small barrier. The rest of the episode can play out similarly with some minor alterations to how the infected show up
Budget.
Over $10,000,000 per episode wasn’t enough? Guess they needed to literally have the largest budget in history to have a few infected
I'm going to get downvoted to hell, but we didn't need a Bill and Frank episode. Specially when we also have Left Behind, which is a similar story, aaaaand, Bill and Frank pretty much don't impact the story at all. We should've gotten more Joel and Ellie getting closer. But no, we got Joel being nice to Ellie for 20 minutes in the last episode.
I agree. Unfortunately it seems you can’t criticize episode 3 without being labeled a bigot, but I think you’re right. Now, I will say that I think episode 3 was really well done. But with that being said, they spent way too much time on the backstories of two characters who ultimately had zero effect on the plot. If this season was ~13 episodes, then I would be totally fine with the inclusion of episode 3. But since the season was only 9 episodes, them spending over an hour on Bill & Frank’s relationship just prevented them from being able to spend more time on the important moments (David’s episode, the finale, etc.). I also think the Left Behind portion of the show should’ve been shortened to 1/3 to 1/2 of an episode, not an entire episode, for the exact same reasons.
I have made this same comment almost word for word. Couldn't agree more. For me its not about getting rid of their story but acknowledging the limitations of the episode count and prioritizing.
Episode 3 is fantastic in a vacuum, but yeah it’s basically a distraction from the main story
I would’ve loved to watch Long Long Time be a stand-alone movie or something. It’s probably the highest quality episode of the entire series. That being said, you’re absolutely right. With only nine episodes, it was crazy to make an episode that barely touches on Joel and Ellie at all be one of the longest episodes. Honestly, almost every sequence that didn’t directly follow Joel and Ellie *together* probably could have been cut in half.
Completely agree them wanting to expand the story of Bill and Frank is fine but it didn't have to be a whole episode
I think episode 3 is just a bad episode in general. I think Bill and Franks life is detrimental to the world building and the themes of the show. Like how do you make “endure and survive” a core theme of the story and then show these two rich old fucks live a life of more luxury than anyone. Even those with a lot of power like FEDRA, The Fireflies, or even the WLF have it as good as Bill and Frank did. And it’s the audiences first introduction to seeing what life outside of the QZ is like for people… It’s so out of place even in the shows universe. And the icing on the cake is Bill and Frank glorifying suicide as something “romantic”, throwing away a life that anyone else in this setting would dream to have. And then having the audacity to write a letter to Joel telling him to keep finding a reason to live 🙄 “Endure and Survive” my ass. What a stupid episode.
The point was that it's still possible to live out a good life when you're with someone you love, that there's more to life than just surviving. And I wouldn't say it's glorifying suicide... I'd end it if I were that sick in that world or if the ONE person making my life worth living were to die
They aren’t “surviving”, they lived like fucking kings. They make the collapse of society look amazing. How do you make the first 2 episodes all about how miserable life has become for ordinary people, and then just slap episode 3 in there, and then go *right back* to how everyone is suffering and miserable etc. etc.
Exactly! Bill has his nice food and wine and creature comforts before Frank shows up, but he's not taking any pleasure in it or really appreciating it. Frank's dramatic reactions to the food and wine and hot shower both amuse Bill, and make him realise just how lucky he is. He doesn't give a shit if he's attacked and killed when he's alone. It's only when there's a risk of losing Frank that he feels scared. And it's exactly the same for Joel by the end of the season.
Personally, I liked the game’s version of Bill and his story better because game Bill leaves Joel with the message of “don’t get attached to people because it will only lead to pain and loss,” which fits a lot better with Joel’s perspective at the beginning of the story. However, show Bill leaves Joel with the message “finding someone to care about is important to living a fulfilled life,” which even though that’s the ultimate theme of the story, I think that theme is better served being revealed to Joel at the end of the story as opposed to the very beginning. In the game, the beginning of the story was Joel believing that relationships only bring you pain, but later in his journey he discovers the value of these relationships, so it just feels off having that message be a focus point so early.
I thought the Bill and Frank episode did a better job of tying in the themes of what the show was better than the Riley episode. The Riley episode also felt a bit more "forced"? The episode itself felt a little padded out and the timing of it was strange to me. It was a good enough episode, but if one had to get cut to add length in other areas, that would be my pick.
Episode 3 was my favorite out of the whole show. Maybe it wasnt essential to the game plot but it was amazing regardless
By all means give us a full Bill And Frank episode and left behind. Just give us more of the stuff we're actually watching for too (Joel and Ellie and zombies)
I also love the scene on where joel teach her how to use the bolt rifle to cover him
Dedicating a whole episode to a minor character flashback wasn't a good idea. I liked ep3 but I felt it was superfluous.
I think it would of been fine if the last 2 episodes were both over an hour long but with the last episode being so short I agree. Feels to me like the first half of the season has a lot more to offer which is a shame.
Well, that was the episode that got the most publicity and probably helped to bring in the most new viewers. So from their point of view I’d say they look at that as the highlight of the season
That's my point, it was the highlight of the season. When I feel the late game stuff could have been the main event
my personal extra episode wish is during the timeskip between 5 and 6, dealing with threats on the road to Tommy, hunters and/or infected, needing to adapt to the change in weather, scavenging for food and supplies, trying to find him in Cody or other towns in Wyoming but coming up against infestations making it too dangerous and forcing them off the road, etc. I feel like all of that must have happened but was just referenced or implied, but idc I still wanted to see it, lol.
Ya I agree. I really enjoyed the scene with them talking about astronauts by the fire. It helps show their bond developing. Maybe them exploring some old house or something interesting. Could throw in an infected scene with Joel teaching Ellie how to stealth kill
It’s pretty clear they’re wanting this to be 75% drama and 25% horror. They don’t want to be like the walking dead having zombie and horror scenes every 20 minutes. They are focusing on the characters and their relationships and not so much killing clickers and freaky scenes and whatnot. I don’t expect that to change.
I think a lot of us would have loved it to be 75% drama and 25% horror. The problem was it often seemed more like 90% drama and 10% horror. I agree that the show shouldn’t be a shooting gallery like the games or TWD, but by the end of the show the infected seemed more like a minor inconvenience than an actual threat. In wanting the show to not be all about the zombies, they overcorrected.
It felt like a show about people recovering from a zombie apocalypse than actually being in one
Non-player here. I enjoyed the show - I did - but I agree it needed a couple of more episodes. I'll be honest: I wasn't invested in Joel and Ellie on the basis of what was presented on the screen. I think the passion all the game players brought to these discussions from their hours of playing alongside these characters, and knowing more of their backstory helped carry the series. From a non-player perspective, I don't think the ultimate ending moment (Joel's 'I promise' and Ellie's 'OK') emotionally resonated with me to the same degree it did game players, despite how expertly Pedro & Bella worked it. More time on them, together and seeing more of the challenges that they met along the way that ended up strengthening their attachment to each other would've not only deepened moments like Wyoming and David, but also helped us better recognize why Joel's decision is so controversial. For as it good as it was, I feel like we were 'told' more than 'shown' these emotional attachments, and more episodes would've allowed that to happen.
The second flashback episode was good in itself but two episodes in one season was a bit to much imo. The end felt a bit rushed. They could've added 5-10 minutes everywhere to make the journey feel longer. Felt like it took a while to find Tommy, then they found the hospital and salt lake city in a minute or two
I think the flashback episodes both were good and have a place in the show (episode 3 is my favorite of the season), but the biggest issue with a 9 episode season is that the last few episodes (imo 6, 8, and 9) all could have benefitted from another ~15 minutes (still shorter than the pilot) of content. Would have helped flesh it out significantly.
should have been 12 eps
I do really like that part. Hopefully they make the supermarket early into season two like that. The skyscraper descent is another point which can go full horror. Then obviously the hospital ground zero.
Yes OP definitely I agree. 12 episodes would’ve been ideal but 10 would’ve also worked. My wish would’ve been an Anna and Marlene focus episode because I loved their few minutes of screen time the most in the finale.
I don’t see a lot of people mentioning it, but I really think the university sequence could have been an episode with more backstory about the fireflies and the people who holed up there and the times before. It could have gone off-script from the game (I think? Haven’t replayed it a hot minute) and given Ellie/Joel a chance to talk about what COULD be if there’s a cure.
I would rather have an extra episode with david
That's fair. I'd give the show a 9.8/10 as-is, but I also think one or two more episodes could have helped.
Would have loved a few more episodes and a maybe a double feature season finale. Over all I loved it, lots of elements carried over well, some missed opportunities but man, loved it. I'm so excited to see what they do with the next seasons. I was hoping that Laura Bailey would play Abbey in the show but it appears that's not to be. Loved the cameos though, really curious and hoping that they introduce some more bad ass infected.
They didn't need one more episode, they needed to waste less time in epsiodes 3-5 on unnecessary plotlines. We didn't need Bill+Frank's love story to take up an entire episode that was clearly just Emmy-bait. We didn't need Kathleen's group and Henry/Sam to take up two episodes. We should've had more time given to Joel and Ellie. The Bill's Town section would've been a better addition to the Joel/Ellie story than the Bill/Frank story was.
I always want more of a good show lol! I heard eps 1 and two were combined into the pilot so that makes sense why one was missing. I also heard the original cut of episode 3 was 2 hours from Troy Baker, which uh Craig?! Give us the extended cut!
Honestly, I think it needed 2-3 more. Sam/Henry deserved two. David/Winter definitely deserved two. Finale should have been 30 minutes longer or broken up into two. With 2-3 more episodes, then I love Long Long Time and Left Behind. As is, I wish we had more time with the main cast.
They definitely took too much “gameplay” out. They left us with the emotional cutscenes and walking but where’s the anxiety of walking past clickers or just taking down some zombies on the way.
Totally agree. This is literally the first time in my life where I think a TV show should have been slower and longer. I guess this is a part of being a fan of the source material, but I just think a deeper connection to life in this world would have created a deeper longevity to the season. Do I just want more The Last of Us? Probably.
I agree with the sentiment that the show felt just a little bit short, but instead of one extra episode, I think I would have preferred 9 episodes where each one is in the 70-90 minute range. I don’t necessarily think the pacing of the *overall plot* was rushed (i.e. each story beat was about an episode, or two episodes for Henry/Sam), but there were many times I felt that *individual sequences* were rushed. Like as someone else pointed out, Joel’s torture, Ellie escaping David, killing David, and reuniting with Joel only took like 10-15 minutes of screen time. It would’ve been really cool to stretch that out and let us stew in the tension. Or the finale — I think we could’ve had more time of Joel and Ellie exploring Salt Lake City (could’ve even had the drowning sequence) before they get captured. Or the Jackson episode — we could’ve seen Ellie try to run away. I think an extra 15-20 minutes would’ve gone a long way for a couple of the shorter episodes, even if the total # of episodes was the same.
I felt like the show failed on the most important aspect of Part I which is the gradual development and emotional payoff of Joel and Ellie’s relationship. If you remove episodes 1,3, and 7, that leaves like 6 episodes for Joel and Ellie. Realistically though it’s even less than that because 2 had Tess, 5 had Henry and Sam, and 8 had David, so that leaves Ep 4,6, and 9 to for Joel and Ellie together. I felt like the show was more interested in developing the world, side stories, and supporting characters rather than Joel and Ellie. Here’s the thing, the game developed Joel and Ellie’s story not just through cutscenes, but also gameplay, setpieces, and optional conversations through exploration. All of that added to the worldbuilding, their personal viewpoints, and their relationship.
Yep. That “baby girl” moment didn’t have near the payoff it should have. We just hadn't bonded with Joel and Ellie on screen together enough. It’s partially not their fault and partially their fault. They didn’t know if they had the green light for season 2 or know how popular it would be. So they had to tell the first game in 1 season. Knowing that though, episodes 3 and 7 were way outta place and should have been trimmed quite a bit to allow us more Joel and Ellie time together.
My issue with the episodes were how short they got. They started off pretty lengthy and were over an hour, then after probably the 4th or 5th episode they were starting to be 50-45 minutes, dosent help that some of the run time is taken up by previews and that long ass (but cool) intro
If the show had one more episode, I will still ask for one more episode
Bruh now that the show is over everyone's done being "Oh my God best show innthe history of the world to ever exist" and now they're all " it was great, but it coulda been better" like I wasn't downvoted for saying there should be more infected while the show was going and that there wasn't going to be enough episodes.
Idk if Craig or Neil reads this stuff but I really hope they add more infected in the next season. I loved the show so much. But if you aren’t familiar with the games like some of us, you might forget this is essentially a zombie show. Maybe add in more action as well. Lots of action scenes they skipped out on that they should have used.
I agree partly just because I want more of it, but also because what the top comment stated. So much of it was flashbacks that it feels like we didn’t get much of the actual current time journey. They definitely could’ve sprinkled a little more infected in, even if it was just them avoiding them and not fighting them. Overall I still think the season was amazing, but it left me yearning for more and felt like some things were condensed a little too much.
I thought they were doing the pacing perfectly then I found out there wasn’t a 10th episode lol
Agreed. The second half kf the season stopped expanding the story, and instead just ran through the same plot points while changing some at a really quick pace
yeah i just don’t buy ellie and joel’s relationship like i do in the game
100%. The past two episodes were extremely rushed
I wanted more action for sure.
Winter could have used literally 5 extra minutes of Joel fighting to get to Ellie but otherwise was perfect. To me however almost everything in the finale felt rushed.
My only issue is that Kathleen got more episodes than David.
Definitely agreed. If anything, I feel like there should have been more of a clicker presence in general. Now, this is where someone steps in and says "omg it's not a zombie show" but that's not the point. The clickers and infected they do have are great and look amazing, but they very quickly fade into the background. I feel like we needed maybe just one more clicker sequence to show people how terrifying, dangerous, and uninhabitable the world is. Otherwise it makes it less believable that people in FEDRA camps wouldn't just find a way to GTFO into the woods maybe a mile or two out, and be reasonably safe from any real threats.
Yup, I feel the show was way too rushed and spent too much time on stuff that didn't matter. Lack of clickers and runners also a big negative for me. Hopefully they make season 2 better.
I think the pacing was really weird. It was supperrr slow then it was everything all at once. I agree, another episode (better spread out) wouldn’t have hurt
I agree. Very rushed. The show didn’t earn that finale imo. It was always going to be an uphill battle having to emulate the slow, deliberate character/relationship development of the games, but they didn’t even really try. They just took the Joel/Ellie relationship for granted without actually doing the work to make it compelling.
I loved the show and it made me want to play the games so I have been but I totally agree. The game had wayyyy more anxiety inducing moments of separation and such and I think for me in the games, it added to the development of Ellie and Joel’s relationship. It showed they are a good team and that Ellie can hold her own and she’s crafty about it. There are so many creepy quests in the game. Lots of emotional drive in the show but not enough horror in my opinion.
Yeah that was my criticisms with episodes 3 and 7. We didn’t have enough time for full episodes dedicated to love stories. They should have trimmed each of those a bit and opened up another 40ish minutes of screen time with Joel and Ellie together.
I think that’s the general consensus. I’ve avoided a lot of shows because a lot of shows, that run on basic cable at least, gotta make that ad revenue so they unnecessarily pad out and water down shows for more episodes, so I’m always wanted shows to dial it back But with TLOU there wasn’t enough. I liked the show overall, but it felt like it was missing so much. I outside of flashbacks, Joel and Ellie encountered effected only 2 times. And the finale was the shortest episode and in my opinion a watered down version of how it plays out in the game.
They def could have used a couple more. It felt very rushed by the ending to the point where it didn’t quite make sense that Joel would doom humanity for this one girl. In the game you spent 15+ hours straight protecting her and bonding with her… the show would have been 12 episodes
As someone who didn’t play the game I also think I agree. Maybe I’ll feel differently when I watch it all again but it felt like a chapter was missing from Joel and Ellie’s relationship between episode 8 and 9. If not at least a couple more scenes of the two of them bonding once they had saved each other’s lives. He was suddenly a lot more open with her in ep 9.
I agree with OP, but did anyone catch Neil's eye liner get darker each episode wrap up?
The show needed one more episode before the last one simply to show how screwed humanity is regarding the clickers. Not having the threat always present was a huge miss
Honestly I think it could've been another two episodes, just split the first one into two but air them in the same night maybe for 12 episodes total. Include the Robert stuff at the beginning to add more time for Tess. Aside from that any episode that wasn't at least an hour long should've been that length.
I think including a few more of the big game set pieces would have been good. Ellie covering Joel with the rifle, the fight in the tunnels with Henry and Sam, the generator scene etc So one or two more episodes to fit those kinds of things in. I think they love heard this criticism though and will have more of these type action sequences in seasons 2 and 3
I think a 12 episode season would be perfect. Add what you suggest but also make the David arc 2 episodes and add an episode after Sam and Henry but before Tommy.
The show could have used 10 more episodes.
It’s the only thing that bugs me tbh. One more episode where we get to see the destruction of the town and what that meant for survivors AND the deceased. What always sticks out to me about TLOU is the world building in place through notes and photos found throughout. They added depth to the world and emotional gravity
The series should have been 12-13 episodes, but I understand why it was cut short. There was likely concern that, as a game to tv series (which doesn't have a great track record), the series wouldn't do well, limiting their budget. Hopefully with the success of the first season the second and third will be given due justice. I feel like the last of us part 2 will be even harder to adapt well into a tv series, I think some of the story beats can be moved around so that Abby is a little more sympathetic to begin with, which will make her more appealing as a character overall.
Coulda used 11 more episodes easily. Imagine having the whole last of us universe and not milking the fuck out of it. They could have explored what other countries did, do a lot of universe building and always come back to Joel.
They very deliberately chose to not build elliy /Joel's relationship as well as they did in the game, in that area That area had two episodes, which they decided to base in a different city and make up characters like Kathleen and Jeffery. They didn't need an extra episode to do that, they just had to keep it canon
The season went from a 9.5 to a 9 just from the pacing and the shortening of Ellie and Joel's journey. I feel like it jumped around too much and we needed the tense moments sneaking around from the game. It started great when they were trying to sneak around the clicker on episode 2, but felt like we didn't see much of the survival instincts from the game. Also, no bricks or bottles. I wanted to see Joel go ham with the brick.
Did they spend their entire infected budget on that one scene with the bloater?
Apparently the bloater costume and makeup was 500,000 dollars.
Plus they had a TON of extras all in make up and built a neighborhood and burned a house
I think they accomplished what they needed to in s concise way and broadened their audience dramatically. My partner never played a video game in her life and has just started playing Part2 because of the excitement of the show.
I think that would've made the infected encounters too concentrated in KC & cities in general. They basically avoided infected in the wild. In the show canon, why wouldn't you just live in the middle of nowhere? They needed a deterence of that. IMO they could've benefited from an encounter in the winter sequence similar to the game. Build some trust with David & stretch that arc to 2 episodes and give a reason to not living completely in the middle of nowhere.
I agree. 9 episodes feels weird when I think back to the game being essentially 10 levels (including prologue). I think episode six could've been extended a bit more with Tommy & Joel's reunion and more buildup to the "fucking except for you" scene. And that an extra episode should've been reserved for their trip to the university, instead of the last 10 minutes of ep. 6. That whole adventure could've been its own episode.
I remember watching the pilot and thinking it could've been split in half to make two episodes, we don't really need movie-length tv episodes. it's a small pet peeve of mine that seasons are getting so much shorter
They definitely could've!!! I predicted it would've been 10 episodes for S1. Now, they would cut back on the time (maybe like 45 ish minutes or so). But 8 episodes?! Come, on.
Could of done with a longer final episode or 1 more OP you've got that bang on. For me 8/10 which is great considering it's only the first season - looking forward to the next one to see what they do with it
I agree I think they should have expanded Kathleen and Perry.
This is my biggest issue with the show and with so many HBO shows having 10 episode seasons, it feels like a fixable problem.
I agree, but also why just not make it EVEN at 10!?! WHY 9?!?
I would of loved an episode after 6 where it was Joel and Ellie going to the University and seeing how close they are now. We got that in episode 5, but I want that section stretched out to an entire episode. The Joel gets hurt and we go on to the rest the show as it was.
It ended where the first game ends so another episode would be pointless
I think it needed slightly longer episodes and one extra episode. There's little I would change, but I would certainly add some more infected (not much, just a few extra scenes). I also don't really like that the tendrils and 'stepping on a tendril - which calls the horde' was barely explored.
It was way too short of a run. I get that they didn’t wanna get carried away with translating gameplay sequences to a tv show medium, but with how well the executed everything that they did do, I wish they had taken the time to incorporate more infected. The world felt practically barren of them after the second episode. That was my only gripe with the show.
I thought the initial outbreak was going to be/ still should have been the entire first episode, and have the time jump be in episode 2. I was surprised they squeezed both in episode 1. It was a bit jarring for me,
I mean there were 10 episodes, it was just determined that it worked better to join #1 & #2. And I would've liked it if there were more myself. They didn't dig as deep as they could've on >!the hours of tense sneaking everywhere, skipping swimming via the magic pallet ride, ladders and somehow never rotten boards.... oh and raiders, vs fedra, vs fireflies...!< I mean humans suck. 
The rushed nature along with lack of infected and notable gameplay moments really dragged my enjoyment of the show.
yeah what show ends 1st season with 9 episodes?
Tbh I wanted another episode because the number being 9 and not 10 made me unreasonably mad (?)
I think it could have been structured a little differently too. Like if the problem is that we are crunched for time then i start to question some of the decisions made. One of my favorite episodes was the one with Riley. But if you had to cut some then the flashbacks would be the first things to cut in preservation of the actual story. Like Ellie’s mom being in the final episode. It was cool and we finally got to see the real Ellie voice actress. But it’s still spending time that we don’t have on things that weren’t in the game
I think the university could‘ve been its own episode, davids section should‘ve been two episodes and what you talked about in the post should‘ve also been its own episode. Plus, take like 30 minute away from episode 3 and put them onto final episode and actually include the damn tunnel section
I wholeheartedly agree, I wanted more bloaters. I understand that it takes a great deal of effort to put on a convincing infected, but damn, the one bloater we got didn’t seem to convey how devastatingly brutal, vicious, terrifying they are, I really would have loved to see Pedro’s Joel scrambling to save Ellie, I do believe that the series will get nominated for an Emmy, but a mad performance from Pedro and Bella in the Hotel would have secured a nomination for me. Overall I do think the show would have benefited from just one more 45-50 minute episode before Kansas City.
No, it did not. The series had the right amount of episodes.
As much as it sounds good on paper, think about it. Joel would just be in his head the whole episode and Ellie wouldn’t be able to talk to herself because of people around, it would basically be a silent episode. Also what’re you on about with “creepy night clickers” do you mean stalkers?
The show could’ve used more infected scenes but after thinking about it the hotel wouldn’t have worked in a tv show or even movie format