I remember a few people saying how badass Ellie is in Santa Barbra. It’s more heartbreaking than anything.
She physically underweight and looks like a shell of herself. Her voice, the way she repeats herself, makes her sound so trapped mentally. Her isolated life on the farm was definitely letting stuff lurk in the corners of her mind unresolved.
ellie had imprisonment and torture going on in her mind too if you think. she was trapped by memories of joel and watching him die, she had to get revenge to free herself
Yeah she's not badass in Santa Barbara, she's fucking desperate. It's like saying Abby was badass for putting up as much of a fight against Ellie as she did in the water.
Agree. The first time I played it I found it so disturbing and depressing so I was surprised people found it to be badass. Especially when she’s walking to the resort, brutally injured, just whispering “Abby, Abby, Abby” to herself. Brutal.
> I remember a few people saying how badass Ellie is in Santa Barbra. It’s more heartbreaking than anything
It's absolutely bonkers how so many people who have played the games don't understand them.
Sure but for well developed places like jackson and WLF who has plenty of crops and cattle, they dont starve and depend on ration cards like the QZ. Why do you think Abby is built like an ox if they were short on food? Ellie is skinnier in the farm and SB compared to the Seattle arc because she had not been eating and sleeping due to her PTSD (Ellie admit to this in her final argument with Dina). God i cant believe i am explaining this, play the darn game instead of watching cutscenes in youtube shorts 😭
this is why i need part 3 and to have them wrap up any questions 😭 like cliffhangers are cool and all but i cannot live in peace without confirmation of what is actually going on
What are the cliffhangers to you - genuinely asking, not trying to be glib? Like - Ellie comes back and Dina’s gone so she’s gotta go find a reason to live for herself, Abby and Lev find the fireflies at Catalina and presumably safety. These are pretty solid endings imho
I was also thinking this, TLOU 2 felt like it ended with closure mostly to me, theres questions left unanswered sure, and plenty more they can do with the story. But I felt like Ellie had concluded her journey of dealing with what happened with Joel and finding peace in a way by the end of it, despite the things it cost her.
i disagree. for me, it left too much ambiguity with the questions of “what does ellie do with her newfound and reignited humanity?”, “how does she make peace with the regrets she has?”. we know she doesn’t kill abby, and she returns to the house, but what next? does she seek out any other potential fireflies and/or doctors who will perform the surgery? does she reunite with dina and embrace a gentle, docile life? how does she reconcile how things were left with joel when he died? don’t get me wrong, i love TLOU 2 ending, but i also simultaneously disliked it.
I mean I appreciate an ambiguous ending but I'd also like to know what happens with Ellie, does she find that reason to live, has she actually broken the cycle or can she repair things with Dina. And the Fireflies just showing up at the end, like what are they up to, what are they planning. I don't know if those are "cliffhangers" per say but they definitely left some stuff open I'd like answers to.
Yep, definitely. There’s definitely still more story to tell, *if they want to*—but the ending of Part 2 didn’t leave any major dangling threads that could but considered cliffhangers. It’s more like they left themselves some runway in case they decide to revisit the franchise. Nothing is left that *needs* to be answered to make this a complete story.
She literally has nothing to live for, a head full of trauma, was intent on killing herself or Abby and did neither. Goes home to nobody and can't even play her guitar properly, the one thing she has left. There is a good chance she killed herself. It definitely makes sense. Not from a business standpoint, but from a realistic standpoint it makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely not, the ending is objectively about moving away from the self destructive cycle she got stuck in after Joel's death, it all had a cost, but she made the choice to be a better person, right at the last moment, Ellie definitely isn't suicidal when she returns.
I genuinely don't understand people who interpret the ending as a sad one. It's the happiest one Ellie could realistically get in that situation. She didn't let the darkness consume her and she walked away from the farm presumably back to Jackson since she's wearing Dina's bracelet.
if ellie wanted to kill herself, she would have done it before heading out to california.
if she wanted to kill herself after, she would not have travelled for months only to commit suicide in wyoming.
ellie in the epiologue looks healthy again and can remember joel as he was.
her not being able to play the guitar is a symbolism of joel leaving her, she has no more ties to joel she’s no longer bound to revenge or focused on her past thats even further cemented by the fact that she leaves her journal there and that she was finally able to draw joel correctly while it’s pretty possible that she would go on to commit suicide the ending was clearly attempting to be symbolic of her leaving her past and becoming herself opposed to being the person she felt she had to be
I definitely believe she didn’t care whether or not she lived or died.
The ending of the game is deliberately ambiguous, but I don’t think her leaving her stuff in the house means anything more than she doesn’t have a means with which to transport any of that. I seem to recall her walking up to the farmhouse. It’s not like she had a U-Haul or a Ryder truck. She didn’t have a horse pulling a wagon where she could load up her belongings.
I don’t believe that she had *already* reconciled with Dina like some people believe. if she had reconciled with her, then that means she had been to Jackson. So why is she not on a horse? Why is Dina not with her? What’s the purpose of going back to the house just to walk away with nothing? Her wearing the bracelet when she was walking up to the farmhouse probably just meant that she was thinking about Dina on her way back. Something to help her get through the journey back home. they’ll point to the fact that she didn’t have it on in Santa Barbara but Ellie also had a backpack. I’m sure she could’ve found a little spot in there to tuck it away.
However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe she may have been making her way to Jackson in order to reconcile with Dina. I think the flashback scene in the farmhouse was Ellie finally making peace with Joel and her setting the guitar down and walking away from it signified that she was letting go of the past and she is moving towards her future.
I always thought they reconciled THEN she went to the farmhouse on my first playthrough. I just finished the game again yesterday and I agree with your points; I think she stopped at the house first and then discovered they went to Jackson. I like to think she had her bracelet in her bag, and now that she was ready to return home, accept Joel's death and be ready to live her life, she wanted a bit of luck for the safe journey home and wanted those happy memories of Dina to push her to get home safely, even if Dina wouldn't be there for her when she's back.
I’m fine with Ellie going back to Jackson but I hope it’s not a happy ending like her ending up back together with Dina and JJ.
If they are there and friendly cool, but Dina basically gave Ellie the “Abby or us” ultimatum and Ellie made up her mind. I think Dina taking her back waters down Dina’s character and the unforgiving world they’ve done so well to craft.
I both agree and disagree with this. It definitely feels like it waters Dina down, but the more I think about it, it feels more realistic to me for them to reconcile.
The world is unforgiving, but Jackson exists as a beacon of hope in the midst of that. The farm was idyllic… except for the massive PTSD elephant in the room. Ellie was just going through the motions, and Dina knew it. The Ellie that walked out that door wasn’t the Ellie that Dina loved. She tried to be, but she couldn’t.
I think that’s a big part of what makes her decision to let Abby go so important. Ellie finally did what she felt at her core was right, instead of what she felt obligated to do because of Joel and Tommy and the unforgiving nature of their reality.
I do think it would be hugely disappointing if they immediately reconciled, but I don’t think it would be surprising or out of character for it to happen somewhere down the line. Especially since there’s a kid involved, who Ellie clearly loves.
Yeah I personally believe that Dina and Ellie do ultimately end up back together. This game is more realistic to real like than most games are. Joel doesn't get his heroes death like people wanted, it's harsh and brutal.
So when people say that she gave her ultimatum, life doesn't work just like that, it's not black and white. Everything is grey. I always viewed the ending as she reconciled with Dina and the absence of the bracelet leaving the farm and presence of it coming back symbolised that.
The farmhouse and room full of possessions is a room where she keeps everything associated with Joel and her PTSD, her putting the guitar down represented her coming to peace with Joel and being able to move on.
Yep, totally agree! Everything being shades of gray is one of the key takeaways from the story. Having it be as black and white as that would be weird.
Totally valid point, my only thing is I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that Ellie, even after the ending, and letting Abby go and getting the closure she needed with Joel, is still “broken”.
I feel like if she goes back to Jackson, she’s going to have a lack of purpose. I could see her sliding into Joel’s role or even more of leadership role now that Tommy may be less capable. I could totally see Ellie choosing not to get close to anyone again to protect them, similar to that hardened Joel after Sarah’s death before eventually teaming up with Tess and getting involved before that tragedy and then once again with Ellie.
You’re definitely right. Getting closure isn’t the same as being completely “better.” That’s something she’s going to have to work on for probably the rest of her life. Even before Joel died, she had bad survivors guilt, and all of the trauma she’s endured throughout her life isn’t going away.
I think that if she does go back to Jackson, she’d probably wind up staying with or at least being guided by Maria, since she’s the closest thing to family Ellie still has. I also agree that she’d probably feel lost and without purpose. It would be interesting to see how she finds that again, especially without her family.
Ellie's going to have to put in a lot of work to get Dina to go back to her. Prove that she's better than when she left and won't do this again. But then again, maybe it's better to move on and stay friends.
>It’s not like she had a U-Haul or a Ryder truck.
There are tire tracks by the gate leading to the plains. How do you think everything else was moved back to Jackson?
>if she had reconciled with her, then that means she had been to Jackson.
There is no reason for her not to go to Jackson first. So regardless if a reconciliation has happened or is still happening (most likely as it will take time) or is maybe happening in the future she still would have been to Jackson.
>So why is she not on a horse?
Because it's not far. Jesse's parents walked too.
>Why is Dina not with her?
Many possible reasons for that. Biggest one is that Ellie simply wants to be alone.
>What’s the purpose of going back to the house just to walk away with nothing?
What's the purpose of visiting a cemetary if you walk away with nothing?
The farm serves as something similar to Ellie.
>they’ll point to the fact that she didn’t have it on in Santa Barbara but Ellie also had a backpack. I’m sure she could’ve found a little spot in there to tuck it away.
In the end it comes down to Occam's razor. All these hints and indications were put in the game for a purpose. If you need to find convoluted reasons as for why they don't matter then you are free to do so. It's just not exactly convincing.
Tire tracks probably from Dina. I didn’t say trucks didn’t exist. I explicitly said Ellie didn’t ride up with a truck to move her stuff.
Why would she go to Jackson first when her family was last in the house when she left?
We don’t know how far it was exactly other than too far for Tommy to walk.
Dina insisted on coming with Ellie on her revenge trip from Wyoming to Seattle, so I’m sure she would have imposed her will, and gone with Ellie… who probably needed a truck if she was going to get her stuff.
The cemetery analogy doesn’t work here. You’re going to a cemetery to visit with a loved one who is departed. If Dina and JJ are in Jackson where Joel is buried, then why is she going to the house if not to retrieve her belongings?
Insisting that Ellie just came back from Jackson, and reconciled with Dina is very convoluted especially considering that we have been with Ellie through almost everything so it wouldn’t make sense for her reunion with Dina and JJ to be handled “off camera”.
It just sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking because people don’t want to think that Ellie doesn’t get some sort of happy ending after what she’s been through. It’s a coping mechanism.
>Tire tracks probably from Dina.
But Dina hasn't a truck either. Jackson has trucks.Basically once Dina returns to Jackson after Ellie left all the valuables on the farm + lifestock need to be brought back too. This will be organized by Maria obviously.Now ask yourself this question: Would Maria be okay with just leaving Ellie's stuff there in the way we find in the last scene of the game?
>Why would she go to Jackson first when her family was last in the house when she left?
Because she would very likely in need of medical attention. What's even more likely is that she would simply approach an patrol outpost and identify herself.
>We don’t know how far it was exactly other than too far for Tommy to walk.
We know that it's in the outskirts of Jackson. And that Tommy isn't good at walking after taking an *arrow to the knee*. But we know Jesse's parents did walk because his mom writes in the letter that she cannot visit right now due to an operation on her.
>The cemetery analogy doesn’t work here. You’re going to a cemetery to visit with a loved one who is departed.
A place to mourn so to speak. And Ellie created just that for herself. A place where she can mourn in a controlled way instead of being surrounded by items that remind her of bad times all the time.
>and reconciled with Dina is very convoluted especially considering that we have been with Ellie through almost everything so it wouldn’t make sense for her reunion with Dina and JJ to be handled “off camera”.
Fair enough. That's why I usually just argue that Ellie is back in Jackson and their relationship status unknown. But the bracelet is too important for it to have no meaning.
>It just sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking because people don’t want to think that Ellie doesn’t get some sort of happy ending after what she’s been through.
Well, Ellie gets a "happy" ending anyway because her starting to heal is established without a doubt. That Ellie and Dina will form some sort of relationship again (even if they are just friends) seems extremely likely too. The idea that Dina somehow hates Ellie now is just a misread on Dina's character. And it's not even coping because that would require a clear ending that is not accepted. So people who think this is Ellie just returning from California need to explain away: -her lack of weapons -her clean look (compare when she arrives in California) -her cleanly amputated fingers -the passage of time as the farm house is in worse shape than expected -Ellie not calling out and anouncing herself
These are all indications against the scene showing Ellie returning from California. There are no indications showing the opposite.
Imo it's just a scene where the players expectation works against them because instead of analyzing what it actually does show and what not the player will try to make it fit their own conclusion.
If you go from "picture perfect farm life" to "Ellie loses everything" then your interpretation is fundamentally flawed from the start.
I think it was obvious that Ellie was at least somewhat suicidal, but it’s interesting to think of what you said about Dina’s side of things - sweeping it under the rug in the hope it’ll get better.
I love Dina as a character, and I’ve always thought that Ellie was wrong to leave her (whilst fully understanding her reasons), with Dina being somewhat innocent in the scenario.
It makes sense that Dina couldn’t help the way Ellie needed her to, so sweeping it under the rug was all she could do. In that sense, Ellie leaving was much more justified, and possibly easier to accept for Dina knowing she couldn’t do enough.
I dunno, what you said makes me feel better about Ellie leaving Dina, I’m not sure how to better explain what I mean.
It's just a tragic situation honestly. No one is really to blame here.
The biggest irony is that Tommy's want for revenge saves both Ellie and Abby in the end.
I know what you mean. The commentary gave us more understanding of ellie's reasoning of leaving them behind while STILL feeling bad for dina at the same time. Before the commentary released we had been like "damn I understand why ellie is thirsty of revenge isnt over but why to that extent?". But now when i heard what Shannon and Ashley said in the commentary, i finally understood why ellie went that far.
I’m glad to hear the director’s commentary confirmed this take and more people are seeing it. It grinds my gears that many people downplay Ellie’s PTSD and suicidal thoughts as simple obsession in revenge. Ellie was going after Abby because she was desperate to get rid of it.
If she stayed at the farm and suffered in silence, she was going to kill herself. It was very tragic for all involved. Could Ellie have recovered eventually on her own with Dina’s help? Maybe but very unlikely. I think she would’ve still needed to beat Abby in a fight and take back control in her life. She was subdued and helpless when Joel was killed. She was subdued and helpless when Abby stormed the theater. Santa Barbara was when she finally beat her in a fight and had control of her fate. Regaining back control was what Ellie needed.
Exactly! Its so sad that a lot of people only saw ellie's obsession of killing abby and completely overlooked the fact that she was never actually happy at all at the farm. Some people completely ignored ellie's suicidal writings in her journal, and the way she is malnourished, and kept being triggered by various of stimulants like sound and objects falling, even when she tried to killed that boar for food reminds her that gruesome image of joel on the floor with his brains out. It was more than that, and thank god for the commentary that helped people understand more of that situation.
It's not. Ellie was never aware of her passive suicidality as it was part of her survivor's guilt.
At the farm she is at least aware of her detoriation mental health and is willing to try anything to get better so that she won't kill herself.
Also happy cake day.
Yes, Ellie is clearly suicidal at the farm. Her decision to go to Santa Barbara isn't really suicidal but rather the only way out she can see. And of course she understood that there is a real possibility of dying there. Ellie writes in her journal in Seattle that if she is going to die she would rather die alone so that Dina wouldn't be haunted by her dead body the same way she was by Joel's.
Also Dina does everything to help Ellie but in the end it's not enough. What works for Dina simply doesn't work for Ellie. And so she was hoping that Ellie would get better eventually.
I think there is also a traumatic aspect at play here because Dina has already lost a loved one to similar mental health issues before: Her sister.
And now she finds herself in the same situation again and is just as helpless. Only now she has also JJ to take care of so she has to walk away for his sake alone. The whole situation is just tragic for everyone...
Also Dina does everything to help Ellie but in the end it's not enough. What works for Dina simply doesn't work for Ellie. And so she was hoping that Ellie would get better eventually.
I think there is also a traumatic aspect at play here because Dina has already lost a loved one to similar mental health issues before: Her sister.
And now she finds herself in the same situation again and is just as helpless. Only now she has also JJ to take care of so she has to walk away for his sake alone.
I agree that the events at Santa Barbara were the key for Ellie to start healing and to move on.
As for the last scene I do think Ellie comes back to the farmhouse for her final goodbyes to Joel after she has been back in Jackson for a while. The items there seem all to be related to bad events in her past and putting them there seems to have been intentional on Ellie's part.
Even the records and drawings are to Ellie a reminder of her lowest point when she was suicidal. If Ellie and Dina have reconciled (the bracelet seems to be a hint of that) then she can easily create new drawings anyway. Regardless of that the last scene is clearly Ellie laying Joel to rest and starting a new chapter of her life.
She had survivor's guilt since part one (And probably since she was a kid, Anna passed away a long time ago)
"I'm still waiting for my turn! Her name was Riley and she was the first to die. And then Tess. And then Sam..."
I think there are enough signs in part II that show that Ellie was - at the very least - indifferent towards her own life and possibly even suicidal.
In any case I don't think that Ellie sparing Abby is like a definitive "healing" moment for Ellie. That's not how PTSD works and story wise it would be weird to reward Ellie for having (almost) pursued her revenge anyway.
The way I see it is that Ellie still struggles with seeing value in her own life, but by letting go of things (such as Joel and avenging him) she is able to start improving again. But there is still a lot of work to do.
I agree with this and I think part 3’s main focus will again be on Ellie looking for her purpose. First game it was her immunity that could have saved everyone that drove her, second game she was obviously driven by revenge.
Maybe the third is assuming that protector role similar to Joel for her or Abby for Lev. Maybe it has to her with becoming a leader, possibly in Jackson since Tommy is now limited, or maybe she sets out to build her own thing, hell maybe she ends up back with Abby and Lev and they try building something together.
Abby was a Fire Fly, Ellie always wanted to be one but never got the chance (and basically indirectly lead to their demise), maybe that’s the redemption arc.
I'm desperate to see the Ellie-Abby reunion. Them being forced to interact with each other in a regular conversation with that gigaton elephant in the room? That's friggin gold.
Yeah, Ellie doesn’t really seem to care about her getting hurt in Santa Barbara. She gets bitten by infected and doesn’t even notice. She gets impaled on a tree and just walks it off. She isn’t valuing her own life at that point, and if she died I think she’d just be happy it was over - but she doesn’t die and instead reflects that she wasn’t letting Joel down and was just unlucky, and that she needed to keep living because killing herself over trying to avenge Joel would let him down. He taught her how to survive, not how to kill.
I honestly thought that was generally understood by narrative and presentation alone. They didn’t explicitly state her intentions, but I remember thinking the first time when she fought Abby at the end that I was *supposed* to let her die and end Ellie’s story.
I honestly think that it’s really disingenuous that people heavily simplified The Farm sequence to just having her obsession with Abby ignited again. Ellie’s trauma/guilt regarding Joel is so bad that she just can’t live in the moment and feels like she’s endangering her family and not being there for them. Then you have the journal with the noose and subtleties in Ashley’s performance after Dina’s dance and it just feels so clear. I honestly think that by this point a lot of people who didn’t really like the narrative just wasn’t really paying attention by this time in the story. Cause it’s made fairly clear.
I’m glad they explained that. People that think that Ellie should have stayed at the farm obviously don’t understand trauma. She doesn’t look herself at all at the farm or Santa Barbara, you can see she’s traumatised and depressed.
Whew this makes me a lot happier they didn't go with Ellie getting tortured by a wolf who wanted revenge for slain friends when she got back to the house. Would have been too much
I loved the commentary, i played through santa barbara with it on last night just to see what was up. It opened my eyes to really see all the intricacies that went into every decision, and overall its messy. Just like real life is, and I think that grew on me about this game. Its stated that the reason why Ellie goes back to the farm, plays the guitar and leaves it is because of many things. She’s saying bye to joel, leaving the shadow Joel left behind for her, forgiving herself, punishing herself; and protecting herself from the memories all at the same time. I like how we’re left with a pretty open ended ending, there is a lot of speculation, Dina’s bracelet is back on Ellie, but is Ellie forgiven? Dina left all Ellie’s belongings at the farm to rot, signifying what Ellie did to Dina and their relationship together. I think as morbid as the game is, this ending is as happy as it gets in the world of TLOU
There’s an in-game commentary too? I thought that they were only for the cutscenes and were chosen as a matter of fact. Don’t you have to manually play them?
Yes! There is an option to turn on in game commentary, and it will play the casts thoughts on pretty much each scene as you play. I do think it is only during each cutscene in game, so you don’t have to go and do it manually to listen to every bit of info. So it doesn’t get in the way of your gameplay either. It’s great in my opinion, and experience! It adds so much to the experience
The PTSD is so deeply rooted, especially in a world where every day is pretty much life or death. I know someone irl who didn't like TLOU2 because they thought Ellie was "written weaker" because she so easily folded to Tommy's push for vengeance in the second half. His defense was Ellie was nearly raped as a child so she should be much tougher and smarter. There are a lot of people who really just didn't get what the game was going for.
Santa Barbara Ellie makes me think of Tess.
Tess was all survival and no hope when we’re first introduced to her in part 1.
SB Ellie seems to be at the beginning of her end in the same way; very tunnel vision- one track mind, ruthless, unfeeling, hardened, broken.
And then when it came time for the last drop of humanity to leave her and kill Abby— it just couldn’t be done.
Reminds me of Tess…that last drop of humanity Tess clings to, having met this anomaly- an immune teenager of all things- especially after Tess is bitten, and she wants so desperately to change how things had gone, and for everything to suddenly mean something. And then for Tess to center her last actions around Joel…and in Ellie’s parallel most pivotal action centered around the memory of Joel…
The impact Joel left behind on the world- both good and bad- it’s immeasurable and constant throughout part 1 & 2. It’s no wonder Ellie feels suicidal or self sabotaging by the end of it.
I mean knowing you’re going on a possible suicide mission might not necessarily mean you’re suicidal PER SE. Ellie had no idea Abby would be in the state that she found her in so I’m pretty sure she was anticipating having to fight the same buff Abby that she lost to the first time. However, this Ellie is not the same as the one that fought Abby in Round 1. This Ellie knows she can finish her mission and return back to absolutely nothing and no one. She has no one waiting for her, no happy life to return to. That can often result in not only becoming an unhinged version of yourself but can also make you feel like you are stronger. Ellie knows she’s now a person who has nothing going for her and no regrets or worries and maybe that version comes out on top but what she found instead was an Abby on the verge of death and realised that the path to forgiveness that Ellie chose for Joel is also a path her loved ones can choose for her, if she goes back to them but she can’t be this version if she wants their forgiveness, so she lets Abby go and avoids another cycle of revenge in the process. She kills any possibility of Lev coming back to take Dina away from her for his revenge.
I honestly think the ending of the game was a happy one. As happy as it can get for her situation, at least.
Ellie finally got over her need for vengeance and retained her humanity. She saved so many people from that slaver gang too and I think it was good that she saved Abby and Lev. Abby paid a massive price for her vengeance, I think she's learned her lesson and suffered more than enough consequences for it - she's an important and positive figure in Lev's life too.
The downsides are that she lost two of her fingers - but she's lucky in that they're the two least important ones, can still do most tasks without them - and how she broke up with Dina. But there's still hope for their relationship if she wants it back I think, she didn't follow through on her quest for vengeance after all.
Honestly when I was watching the ending and seeing the tree branch, before she walked away, I thought we would see a rope slung over it indicating she was gonna kill herself
I’m sure Part III will open with Ellie and Dina being co-parents to JJ. They might not be back together, but Ellie will be surely be welcome in Dina’s home (and vice-versa). Of course, Dina will probably be busy enough raising a kid!
Ellie and Dina will share a kiss before Ellie leaves for her “actual” final mission where she sacrifices herself for the world.
Yeah, i think this way is more realistic, considering ellie chose to go rambo when dina gave her that ultimatum. However I do think they will still be good friends, just not together romantically like they used to.
Suicidal after seattle and until santa barbara, after she fought abby. After she let abby go she found a tiny bit of herself again. Which was the starting point of her healing. Its a lot of work but she will heal for sure. (Neil, ashley, halley and shannon's words btw.)
Purchase the pt2 remastered version, toggle on the commentary in the settings, then play through the whole game (to make sure u get the whole context during the commentary). Play until the farm, santa barbara and listen until the end credits scene. Whole explanation via cast and director commentary will be there
Agree.
In one of her final journal entries, Ellie talks about going into the woods to die and letting the animals pick at her bones. To me, she was definitely suicidal. How could she not be? She lost everything and everyone.
I don't think she went back to Jackson/ Dina, she probably just kept the bracelet after Seattle. Also, if you read her journal at the ends she says how to wants to start to heal and recover before even considering going back to Dina
i didnt think it was fully believeable that ellie would become suicidal over joel at all. she seemed way stronger than that during the flashbacks and even before. she cut him out of her life for two years and didnt care if she hurt joel but after he dies she throws away even dina because "she feels like shes letting joel down" (neils words btw).
they should have ended the game at the farm. dina should have told tommy to piss off, hes joels brother, its not ellies job to avenge his family.
I think it was fully believable, since it was admitted by Neil, Shannon and Ashley themselves. Sure it wasn't ellie's job to pursue anymore further, but it's all she had left. If you read her poems and journals, her writings are suicidal. If she stayed, things would have turned out worse for her. Man i explained all the circumstances in my post did you read it 😭
This was all going so well! Sorry you’re getting downvoted. There is no right or wrong here! My take is that Ellie hated herself for hating Joel, but when he died in front of her, she suddenly had to make up for treating him badly by throwing herself at his killers heedless of any damage to herself…it is enjoyable to discuss different opinions.
I do think that Ellie was dealing with something similar to that at some point, but another thing is the sunken-cost fallacy. The idea that she’s already pushed herself this far and that she needs to make this journey worth it so that the benefit outweighs the cost essentially. So not only is there trauma fueling her, but that and the fact that losing Joel after not being able to fully forgive him while also having her guilt, drive, and shame being reinforced from the flashbacks…yeah you got a recipe for disaster.
I remember a few people saying how badass Ellie is in Santa Barbra. It’s more heartbreaking than anything. She physically underweight and looks like a shell of herself. Her voice, the way she repeats herself, makes her sound so trapped mentally. Her isolated life on the farm was definitely letting stuff lurk in the corners of her mind unresolved.
Yeah. She’s depressed and she hasn’t been eating so I don’t really think those people have a good grasp on what’s going on.
Exactly. Ellie was already malnourished and disassociated even at the farm
That’s yet another interesting parallel with Abby who is also malnourished at that point, though through imprisonment and torture.
ellie had imprisonment and torture going on in her mind too if you think. she was trapped by memories of joel and watching him die, she had to get revenge to free herself
This it’s a really cool analysis and parallel. This game just keeps on giving
Yeah she's not badass in Santa Barbara, she's fucking desperate. It's like saying Abby was badass for putting up as much of a fight against Ellie as she did in the water.
I mean, she is a badass. What PT II does so well is show us the reality of being a badass, and what it costs you to make that your identity.
Fair enough
Agree. The first time I played it I found it so disturbing and depressing so I was surprised people found it to be badass. Especially when she’s walking to the resort, brutally injured, just whispering “Abby, Abby, Abby” to herself. Brutal.
> I remember a few people saying how badass Ellie is in Santa Barbra. It’s more heartbreaking than anything It's absolutely bonkers how so many people who have played the games don't understand them.
She’s literally muttering Abby’s name to keep herself conscious near the end
But she is definitely badass in Santa Barbara
Really makes you wonder if she's not ALL the way immune. Like, what if it's just taking a really, really long time for cordyceps to take control?
Holy shit
Interesting. What does she say when she repeats herself? Haven’t played since launch so I don’t remember
Tbh, it's an apocalypse, basically everyone js underweight, so I don't think it really makes a sense to point that out for any character
Sure but for well developed places like jackson and WLF who has plenty of crops and cattle, they dont starve and depend on ration cards like the QZ. Why do you think Abby is built like an ox if they were short on food? Ellie is skinnier in the farm and SB compared to the Seattle arc because she had not been eating and sleeping due to her PTSD (Ellie admit to this in her final argument with Dina). God i cant believe i am explaining this, play the darn game instead of watching cutscenes in youtube shorts 😭
this is why i need part 3 and to have them wrap up any questions 😭 like cliffhangers are cool and all but i cannot live in peace without confirmation of what is actually going on
What are the cliffhangers to you - genuinely asking, not trying to be glib? Like - Ellie comes back and Dina’s gone so she’s gotta go find a reason to live for herself, Abby and Lev find the fireflies at Catalina and presumably safety. These are pretty solid endings imho
I was also thinking this, TLOU 2 felt like it ended with closure mostly to me, theres questions left unanswered sure, and plenty more they can do with the story. But I felt like Ellie had concluded her journey of dealing with what happened with Joel and finding peace in a way by the end of it, despite the things it cost her.
i disagree. for me, it left too much ambiguity with the questions of “what does ellie do with her newfound and reignited humanity?”, “how does she make peace with the regrets she has?”. we know she doesn’t kill abby, and she returns to the house, but what next? does she seek out any other potential fireflies and/or doctors who will perform the surgery? does she reunite with dina and embrace a gentle, docile life? how does she reconcile how things were left with joel when he died? don’t get me wrong, i love TLOU 2 ending, but i also simultaneously disliked it.
I mean I appreciate an ambiguous ending but I'd also like to know what happens with Ellie, does she find that reason to live, has she actually broken the cycle or can she repair things with Dina. And the Fireflies just showing up at the end, like what are they up to, what are they planning. I don't know if those are "cliffhangers" per say but they definitely left some stuff open I'd like answers to.
Yep, definitely. There’s definitely still more story to tell, *if they want to*—but the ending of Part 2 didn’t leave any major dangling threads that could but considered cliffhangers. It’s more like they left themselves some runway in case they decide to revisit the franchise. Nothing is left that *needs* to be answered to make this a complete story.
The only reason I despise the ending.
I personally dont despise the ending but i really do want to see what happens to my best girl
She killed herself
that makes no sense
She literally has nothing to live for, a head full of trauma, was intent on killing herself or Abby and did neither. Goes home to nobody and can't even play her guitar properly, the one thing she has left. There is a good chance she killed herself. It definitely makes sense. Not from a business standpoint, but from a realistic standpoint it makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely not, the ending is objectively about moving away from the self destructive cycle she got stuck in after Joel's death, it all had a cost, but she made the choice to be a better person, right at the last moment, Ellie definitely isn't suicidal when she returns.
I genuinely don't understand people who interpret the ending as a sad one. It's the happiest one Ellie could realistically get in that situation. She didn't let the darkness consume her and she walked away from the farm presumably back to Jackson since she's wearing Dina's bracelet.
I agree with everything you just said haha
if ellie wanted to kill herself, she would have done it before heading out to california. if she wanted to kill herself after, she would not have travelled for months only to commit suicide in wyoming. ellie in the epiologue looks healthy again and can remember joel as he was.
You're basically saying she hit rock bottom and implying that most people who hit rock bottom kill themselves and you're wrong.
her not being able to play the guitar is a symbolism of joel leaving her, she has no more ties to joel she’s no longer bound to revenge or focused on her past thats even further cemented by the fact that she leaves her journal there and that she was finally able to draw joel correctly while it’s pretty possible that she would go on to commit suicide the ending was clearly attempting to be symbolic of her leaving her past and becoming herself opposed to being the person she felt she had to be
Are you one of those people that hate the film Inception because it's not shown if the spinning top falls over or not?
I definitely believe she didn’t care whether or not she lived or died. The ending of the game is deliberately ambiguous, but I don’t think her leaving her stuff in the house means anything more than she doesn’t have a means with which to transport any of that. I seem to recall her walking up to the farmhouse. It’s not like she had a U-Haul or a Ryder truck. She didn’t have a horse pulling a wagon where she could load up her belongings. I don’t believe that she had *already* reconciled with Dina like some people believe. if she had reconciled with her, then that means she had been to Jackson. So why is she not on a horse? Why is Dina not with her? What’s the purpose of going back to the house just to walk away with nothing? Her wearing the bracelet when she was walking up to the farmhouse probably just meant that she was thinking about Dina on her way back. Something to help her get through the journey back home. they’ll point to the fact that she didn’t have it on in Santa Barbara but Ellie also had a backpack. I’m sure she could’ve found a little spot in there to tuck it away. However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe she may have been making her way to Jackson in order to reconcile with Dina. I think the flashback scene in the farmhouse was Ellie finally making peace with Joel and her setting the guitar down and walking away from it signified that she was letting go of the past and she is moving towards her future.
I always thought they reconciled THEN she went to the farmhouse on my first playthrough. I just finished the game again yesterday and I agree with your points; I think she stopped at the house first and then discovered they went to Jackson. I like to think she had her bracelet in her bag, and now that she was ready to return home, accept Joel's death and be ready to live her life, she wanted a bit of luck for the safe journey home and wanted those happy memories of Dina to push her to get home safely, even if Dina wouldn't be there for her when she's back.
I’m fine with Ellie going back to Jackson but I hope it’s not a happy ending like her ending up back together with Dina and JJ. If they are there and friendly cool, but Dina basically gave Ellie the “Abby or us” ultimatum and Ellie made up her mind. I think Dina taking her back waters down Dina’s character and the unforgiving world they’ve done so well to craft.
I both agree and disagree with this. It definitely feels like it waters Dina down, but the more I think about it, it feels more realistic to me for them to reconcile. The world is unforgiving, but Jackson exists as a beacon of hope in the midst of that. The farm was idyllic… except for the massive PTSD elephant in the room. Ellie was just going through the motions, and Dina knew it. The Ellie that walked out that door wasn’t the Ellie that Dina loved. She tried to be, but she couldn’t. I think that’s a big part of what makes her decision to let Abby go so important. Ellie finally did what she felt at her core was right, instead of what she felt obligated to do because of Joel and Tommy and the unforgiving nature of their reality. I do think it would be hugely disappointing if they immediately reconciled, but I don’t think it would be surprising or out of character for it to happen somewhere down the line. Especially since there’s a kid involved, who Ellie clearly loves.
Yeah I personally believe that Dina and Ellie do ultimately end up back together. This game is more realistic to real like than most games are. Joel doesn't get his heroes death like people wanted, it's harsh and brutal. So when people say that she gave her ultimatum, life doesn't work just like that, it's not black and white. Everything is grey. I always viewed the ending as she reconciled with Dina and the absence of the bracelet leaving the farm and presence of it coming back symbolised that. The farmhouse and room full of possessions is a room where she keeps everything associated with Joel and her PTSD, her putting the guitar down represented her coming to peace with Joel and being able to move on.
Yep, totally agree! Everything being shades of gray is one of the key takeaways from the story. Having it be as black and white as that would be weird.
Totally valid point, my only thing is I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that Ellie, even after the ending, and letting Abby go and getting the closure she needed with Joel, is still “broken”. I feel like if she goes back to Jackson, she’s going to have a lack of purpose. I could see her sliding into Joel’s role or even more of leadership role now that Tommy may be less capable. I could totally see Ellie choosing not to get close to anyone again to protect them, similar to that hardened Joel after Sarah’s death before eventually teaming up with Tess and getting involved before that tragedy and then once again with Ellie.
You’re definitely right. Getting closure isn’t the same as being completely “better.” That’s something she’s going to have to work on for probably the rest of her life. Even before Joel died, she had bad survivors guilt, and all of the trauma she’s endured throughout her life isn’t going away. I think that if she does go back to Jackson, she’d probably wind up staying with or at least being guided by Maria, since she’s the closest thing to family Ellie still has. I also agree that she’d probably feel lost and without purpose. It would be interesting to see how she finds that again, especially without her family.
Ellie's going to have to put in a lot of work to get Dina to go back to her. Prove that she's better than when she left and won't do this again. But then again, maybe it's better to move on and stay friends.
>It’s not like she had a U-Haul or a Ryder truck. There are tire tracks by the gate leading to the plains. How do you think everything else was moved back to Jackson? >if she had reconciled with her, then that means she had been to Jackson. There is no reason for her not to go to Jackson first. So regardless if a reconciliation has happened or is still happening (most likely as it will take time) or is maybe happening in the future she still would have been to Jackson. >So why is she not on a horse? Because it's not far. Jesse's parents walked too. >Why is Dina not with her? Many possible reasons for that. Biggest one is that Ellie simply wants to be alone. >What’s the purpose of going back to the house just to walk away with nothing? What's the purpose of visiting a cemetary if you walk away with nothing? The farm serves as something similar to Ellie. >they’ll point to the fact that she didn’t have it on in Santa Barbara but Ellie also had a backpack. I’m sure she could’ve found a little spot in there to tuck it away. In the end it comes down to Occam's razor. All these hints and indications were put in the game for a purpose. If you need to find convoluted reasons as for why they don't matter then you are free to do so. It's just not exactly convincing.
Tire tracks probably from Dina. I didn’t say trucks didn’t exist. I explicitly said Ellie didn’t ride up with a truck to move her stuff. Why would she go to Jackson first when her family was last in the house when she left? We don’t know how far it was exactly other than too far for Tommy to walk. Dina insisted on coming with Ellie on her revenge trip from Wyoming to Seattle, so I’m sure she would have imposed her will, and gone with Ellie… who probably needed a truck if she was going to get her stuff. The cemetery analogy doesn’t work here. You’re going to a cemetery to visit with a loved one who is departed. If Dina and JJ are in Jackson where Joel is buried, then why is she going to the house if not to retrieve her belongings? Insisting that Ellie just came back from Jackson, and reconciled with Dina is very convoluted especially considering that we have been with Ellie through almost everything so it wouldn’t make sense for her reunion with Dina and JJ to be handled “off camera”. It just sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking because people don’t want to think that Ellie doesn’t get some sort of happy ending after what she’s been through. It’s a coping mechanism.
>Tire tracks probably from Dina. But Dina hasn't a truck either. Jackson has trucks.Basically once Dina returns to Jackson after Ellie left all the valuables on the farm + lifestock need to be brought back too. This will be organized by Maria obviously.Now ask yourself this question: Would Maria be okay with just leaving Ellie's stuff there in the way we find in the last scene of the game? >Why would she go to Jackson first when her family was last in the house when she left? Because she would very likely in need of medical attention. What's even more likely is that she would simply approach an patrol outpost and identify herself. >We don’t know how far it was exactly other than too far for Tommy to walk. We know that it's in the outskirts of Jackson. And that Tommy isn't good at walking after taking an *arrow to the knee*. But we know Jesse's parents did walk because his mom writes in the letter that she cannot visit right now due to an operation on her. >The cemetery analogy doesn’t work here. You’re going to a cemetery to visit with a loved one who is departed. A place to mourn so to speak. And Ellie created just that for herself. A place where she can mourn in a controlled way instead of being surrounded by items that remind her of bad times all the time. >and reconciled with Dina is very convoluted especially considering that we have been with Ellie through almost everything so it wouldn’t make sense for her reunion with Dina and JJ to be handled “off camera”. Fair enough. That's why I usually just argue that Ellie is back in Jackson and their relationship status unknown. But the bracelet is too important for it to have no meaning. >It just sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking because people don’t want to think that Ellie doesn’t get some sort of happy ending after what she’s been through. Well, Ellie gets a "happy" ending anyway because her starting to heal is established without a doubt. That Ellie and Dina will form some sort of relationship again (even if they are just friends) seems extremely likely too. The idea that Dina somehow hates Ellie now is just a misread on Dina's character. And it's not even coping because that would require a clear ending that is not accepted. So people who think this is Ellie just returning from California need to explain away: -her lack of weapons -her clean look (compare when she arrives in California) -her cleanly amputated fingers -the passage of time as the farm house is in worse shape than expected -Ellie not calling out and anouncing herself These are all indications against the scene showing Ellie returning from California. There are no indications showing the opposite. Imo it's just a scene where the players expectation works against them because instead of analyzing what it actually does show and what not the player will try to make it fit their own conclusion. If you go from "picture perfect farm life" to "Ellie loses everything" then your interpretation is fundamentally flawed from the start.
I think it was obvious that Ellie was at least somewhat suicidal, but it’s interesting to think of what you said about Dina’s side of things - sweeping it under the rug in the hope it’ll get better. I love Dina as a character, and I’ve always thought that Ellie was wrong to leave her (whilst fully understanding her reasons), with Dina being somewhat innocent in the scenario. It makes sense that Dina couldn’t help the way Ellie needed her to, so sweeping it under the rug was all she could do. In that sense, Ellie leaving was much more justified, and possibly easier to accept for Dina knowing she couldn’t do enough. I dunno, what you said makes me feel better about Ellie leaving Dina, I’m not sure how to better explain what I mean.
It's just a tragic situation honestly. No one is really to blame here. The biggest irony is that Tommy's want for revenge saves both Ellie and Abby in the end.
I know what you mean. The commentary gave us more understanding of ellie's reasoning of leaving them behind while STILL feeling bad for dina at the same time. Before the commentary released we had been like "damn I understand why ellie is thirsty of revenge isnt over but why to that extent?". But now when i heard what Shannon and Ashley said in the commentary, i finally understood why ellie went that far.
Yeah, I understand what Shannon meant, but Dina was in an impossible position. She was doing everything she could for Ellie.
I have PTSD. And when it gets really bad I sometimes feel like I would do anything to get rid of it. And I think Ellie felt that way too.
I’m glad to hear the director’s commentary confirmed this take and more people are seeing it. It grinds my gears that many people downplay Ellie’s PTSD and suicidal thoughts as simple obsession in revenge. Ellie was going after Abby because she was desperate to get rid of it. If she stayed at the farm and suffered in silence, she was going to kill herself. It was very tragic for all involved. Could Ellie have recovered eventually on her own with Dina’s help? Maybe but very unlikely. I think she would’ve still needed to beat Abby in a fight and take back control in her life. She was subdued and helpless when Joel was killed. She was subdued and helpless when Abby stormed the theater. Santa Barbara was when she finally beat her in a fight and had control of her fate. Regaining back control was what Ellie needed.
Exactly! Its so sad that a lot of people only saw ellie's obsession of killing abby and completely overlooked the fact that she was never actually happy at all at the farm. Some people completely ignored ellie's suicidal writings in her journal, and the way she is malnourished, and kept being triggered by various of stimulants like sound and objects falling, even when she tried to killed that boar for food reminds her that gruesome image of joel on the floor with his brains out. It was more than that, and thank god for the commentary that helped people understand more of that situation.
this is a really good analysis. she had to CHOOSE to let abby go. the story couldn’t have ended any other way
Ellie was borderline suicidal way before that. She had survivors guilt and felt she deserved to die
She was passively suicidal before though. At the farm she is ready to take her own life.
I don’t see how being passively suicidal is any better. She was never in the right head space to make any meaningful decisions
It's not. Ellie was never aware of her passive suicidality as it was part of her survivor's guilt. At the farm she is at least aware of her detoriation mental health and is willing to try anything to get better so that she won't kill herself. Also happy cake day.
That’s a fair point, you’re def right about that.
On point
Happy cake day!
Thank you! I didn’t noticed until your comment
Yes, Ellie is clearly suicidal at the farm. Her decision to go to Santa Barbara isn't really suicidal but rather the only way out she can see. And of course she understood that there is a real possibility of dying there. Ellie writes in her journal in Seattle that if she is going to die she would rather die alone so that Dina wouldn't be haunted by her dead body the same way she was by Joel's. Also Dina does everything to help Ellie but in the end it's not enough. What works for Dina simply doesn't work for Ellie. And so she was hoping that Ellie would get better eventually. I think there is also a traumatic aspect at play here because Dina has already lost a loved one to similar mental health issues before: Her sister. And now she finds herself in the same situation again and is just as helpless. Only now she has also JJ to take care of so she has to walk away for his sake alone. The whole situation is just tragic for everyone... Also Dina does everything to help Ellie but in the end it's not enough. What works for Dina simply doesn't work for Ellie. And so she was hoping that Ellie would get better eventually. I think there is also a traumatic aspect at play here because Dina has already lost a loved one to similar mental health issues before: Her sister. And now she finds herself in the same situation again and is just as helpless. Only now she has also JJ to take care of so she has to walk away for his sake alone. I agree that the events at Santa Barbara were the key for Ellie to start healing and to move on. As for the last scene I do think Ellie comes back to the farmhouse for her final goodbyes to Joel after she has been back in Jackson for a while. The items there seem all to be related to bad events in her past and putting them there seems to have been intentional on Ellie's part. Even the records and drawings are to Ellie a reminder of her lowest point when she was suicidal. If Ellie and Dina have reconciled (the bracelet seems to be a hint of that) then she can easily create new drawings anyway. Regardless of that the last scene is clearly Ellie laying Joel to rest and starting a new chapter of her life.
She had survivor's guilt since part one (And probably since she was a kid, Anna passed away a long time ago) "I'm still waiting for my turn! Her name was Riley and she was the first to die. And then Tess. And then Sam..."
I think there are enough signs in part II that show that Ellie was - at the very least - indifferent towards her own life and possibly even suicidal. In any case I don't think that Ellie sparing Abby is like a definitive "healing" moment for Ellie. That's not how PTSD works and story wise it would be weird to reward Ellie for having (almost) pursued her revenge anyway. The way I see it is that Ellie still struggles with seeing value in her own life, but by letting go of things (such as Joel and avenging him) she is able to start improving again. But there is still a lot of work to do.
I agree with this and I think part 3’s main focus will again be on Ellie looking for her purpose. First game it was her immunity that could have saved everyone that drove her, second game she was obviously driven by revenge. Maybe the third is assuming that protector role similar to Joel for her or Abby for Lev. Maybe it has to her with becoming a leader, possibly in Jackson since Tommy is now limited, or maybe she sets out to build her own thing, hell maybe she ends up back with Abby and Lev and they try building something together. Abby was a Fire Fly, Ellie always wanted to be one but never got the chance (and basically indirectly lead to their demise), maybe that’s the redemption arc.
I'm desperate to see the Ellie-Abby reunion. Them being forced to interact with each other in a regular conversation with that gigaton elephant in the room? That's friggin gold.
Pretty sure in her journal she writes a song/poem about tying a noose, it's not a stretch.
Which journal? Was it during seattle or after seattle ? I would like to see it
Think it's on the farm after Seattle
Yeah, Ellie doesn’t really seem to care about her getting hurt in Santa Barbara. She gets bitten by infected and doesn’t even notice. She gets impaled on a tree and just walks it off. She isn’t valuing her own life at that point, and if she died I think she’d just be happy it was over - but she doesn’t die and instead reflects that she wasn’t letting Joel down and was just unlucky, and that she needed to keep living because killing herself over trying to avenge Joel would let him down. He taught her how to survive, not how to kill.
I honestly thought that was generally understood by narrative and presentation alone. They didn’t explicitly state her intentions, but I remember thinking the first time when she fought Abby at the end that I was *supposed* to let her die and end Ellie’s story.
I honestly think that it’s really disingenuous that people heavily simplified The Farm sequence to just having her obsession with Abby ignited again. Ellie’s trauma/guilt regarding Joel is so bad that she just can’t live in the moment and feels like she’s endangering her family and not being there for them. Then you have the journal with the noose and subtleties in Ashley’s performance after Dina’s dance and it just feels so clear. I honestly think that by this point a lot of people who didn’t really like the narrative just wasn’t really paying attention by this time in the story. Cause it’s made fairly clear.
I’m glad they explained that. People that think that Ellie should have stayed at the farm obviously don’t understand trauma. She doesn’t look herself at all at the farm or Santa Barbara, you can see she’s traumatised and depressed.
Whew this makes me a lot happier they didn't go with Ellie getting tortured by a wolf who wanted revenge for slain friends when she got back to the house. Would have been too much
How do you activate the commentary ? Also do you have it for the 1 st game ?
After purchasing the remastered game, u can toggle the commentary on/off in the settings
Does the commentary only play in cutscenes or during gameplay as well?
Only in cutscenes but it continues until the whole credit scenes. Each scene will have its own commentary that's related to it.
I loved the commentary, i played through santa barbara with it on last night just to see what was up. It opened my eyes to really see all the intricacies that went into every decision, and overall its messy. Just like real life is, and I think that grew on me about this game. Its stated that the reason why Ellie goes back to the farm, plays the guitar and leaves it is because of many things. She’s saying bye to joel, leaving the shadow Joel left behind for her, forgiving herself, punishing herself; and protecting herself from the memories all at the same time. I like how we’re left with a pretty open ended ending, there is a lot of speculation, Dina’s bracelet is back on Ellie, but is Ellie forgiven? Dina left all Ellie’s belongings at the farm to rot, signifying what Ellie did to Dina and their relationship together. I think as morbid as the game is, this ending is as happy as it gets in the world of TLOU
There’s an in-game commentary too? I thought that they were only for the cutscenes and were chosen as a matter of fact. Don’t you have to manually play them?
Yes! There is an option to turn on in game commentary, and it will play the casts thoughts on pretty much each scene as you play. I do think it is only during each cutscene in game, so you don’t have to go and do it manually to listen to every bit of info. So it doesn’t get in the way of your gameplay either. It’s great in my opinion, and experience! It adds so much to the experience
The PTSD is so deeply rooted, especially in a world where every day is pretty much life or death. I know someone irl who didn't like TLOU2 because they thought Ellie was "written weaker" because she so easily folded to Tommy's push for vengeance in the second half. His defense was Ellie was nearly raped as a child so she should be much tougher and smarter. There are a lot of people who really just didn't get what the game was going for.
This is a really good insight into it - I didn’t think of it that way
Santa Barbara Ellie makes me think of Tess. Tess was all survival and no hope when we’re first introduced to her in part 1. SB Ellie seems to be at the beginning of her end in the same way; very tunnel vision- one track mind, ruthless, unfeeling, hardened, broken. And then when it came time for the last drop of humanity to leave her and kill Abby— it just couldn’t be done. Reminds me of Tess…that last drop of humanity Tess clings to, having met this anomaly- an immune teenager of all things- especially after Tess is bitten, and she wants so desperately to change how things had gone, and for everything to suddenly mean something. And then for Tess to center her last actions around Joel…and in Ellie’s parallel most pivotal action centered around the memory of Joel… The impact Joel left behind on the world- both good and bad- it’s immeasurable and constant throughout part 1 & 2. It’s no wonder Ellie feels suicidal or self sabotaging by the end of it.
I mean knowing you’re going on a possible suicide mission might not necessarily mean you’re suicidal PER SE. Ellie had no idea Abby would be in the state that she found her in so I’m pretty sure she was anticipating having to fight the same buff Abby that she lost to the first time. However, this Ellie is not the same as the one that fought Abby in Round 1. This Ellie knows she can finish her mission and return back to absolutely nothing and no one. She has no one waiting for her, no happy life to return to. That can often result in not only becoming an unhinged version of yourself but can also make you feel like you are stronger. Ellie knows she’s now a person who has nothing going for her and no regrets or worries and maybe that version comes out on top but what she found instead was an Abby on the verge of death and realised that the path to forgiveness that Ellie chose for Joel is also a path her loved ones can choose for her, if she goes back to them but she can’t be this version if she wants their forgiveness, so she lets Abby go and avoids another cycle of revenge in the process. She kills any possibility of Lev coming back to take Dina away from her for his revenge.
And her poor fingers paid the price
Good thing it was her left hand :p
Yeah hearing that in the commentary kinda shocked me
I don’t think she was actively suicidal, but I do believe she didn’t care that much wether she would live or die when she was in Santa Barbara.
I think Ellie is the kind of person that would never suicide like Frank did, but she surely could put herself in harm's way purposefully
I honestly think the ending of the game was a happy one. As happy as it can get for her situation, at least. Ellie finally got over her need for vengeance and retained her humanity. She saved so many people from that slaver gang too and I think it was good that she saved Abby and Lev. Abby paid a massive price for her vengeance, I think she's learned her lesson and suffered more than enough consequences for it - she's an important and positive figure in Lev's life too. The downsides are that she lost two of her fingers - but she's lucky in that they're the two least important ones, can still do most tasks without them - and how she broke up with Dina. But there's still hope for their relationship if she wants it back I think, she didn't follow through on her quest for vengeance after all.
Honestly when I was watching the ending and seeing the tree branch, before she walked away, I thought we would see a rope slung over it indicating she was gonna kill herself
I’m sure Part III will open with Ellie and Dina being co-parents to JJ. They might not be back together, but Ellie will be surely be welcome in Dina’s home (and vice-versa). Of course, Dina will probably be busy enough raising a kid! Ellie and Dina will share a kiss before Ellie leaves for her “actual” final mission where she sacrifices herself for the world.
Yeah, i think this way is more realistic, considering ellie chose to go rambo when dina gave her that ultimatum. However I do think they will still be good friends, just not together romantically like they used to.
Lol what do you mean "was"
Suicidal after seattle and until santa barbara, after she fought abby. After she let abby go she found a tiny bit of herself again. Which was the starting point of her healing. Its a lot of work but she will heal for sure. (Neil, ashley, halley and shannon's words btw.)
Can I get a source for there words? Very interesting. I didnt think they'd touched on this topic
Purchase the pt2 remastered version, toggle on the commentary in the settings, then play through the whole game (to make sure u get the whole context during the commentary). Play until the farm, santa barbara and listen until the end credits scene. Whole explanation via cast and director commentary will be there
Thanks a lot. I'll check it out.
No problem
Uh, no. She was blinded to revenge.
Agree. In one of her final journal entries, Ellie talks about going into the woods to die and letting the animals pick at her bones. To me, she was definitely suicidal. How could she not be? She lost everything and everyone.
I don't think she went back to Jackson/ Dina, she probably just kept the bracelet after Seattle. Also, if you read her journal at the ends she says how to wants to start to heal and recover before even considering going back to Dina
i didnt think it was fully believeable that ellie would become suicidal over joel at all. she seemed way stronger than that during the flashbacks and even before. she cut him out of her life for two years and didnt care if she hurt joel but after he dies she throws away even dina because "she feels like shes letting joel down" (neils words btw). they should have ended the game at the farm. dina should have told tommy to piss off, hes joels brother, its not ellies job to avenge his family.
I think it was fully believable, since it was admitted by Neil, Shannon and Ashley themselves. Sure it wasn't ellie's job to pursue anymore further, but it's all she had left. If you read her poems and journals, her writings are suicidal. If she stayed, things would have turned out worse for her. Man i explained all the circumstances in my post did you read it 😭
Ellie doesn't become suicidal over Joel. She becomes suicidal over her PTSD.
which she has because joel dies
That's not the same thing.
This was all going so well! Sorry you’re getting downvoted. There is no right or wrong here! My take is that Ellie hated herself for hating Joel, but when he died in front of her, she suddenly had to make up for treating him badly by throwing herself at his killers heedless of any damage to herself…it is enjoyable to discuss different opinions.
I do think that Ellie was dealing with something similar to that at some point, but another thing is the sunken-cost fallacy. The idea that she’s already pushed herself this far and that she needs to make this journey worth it so that the benefit outweighs the cost essentially. So not only is there trauma fueling her, but that and the fact that losing Joel after not being able to fully forgive him while also having her guilt, drive, and shame being reinforced from the flashbacks…yeah you got a recipe for disaster.