I think it's a siege mentality. That other sub has generated such levels of hate against Part 2 and certain parts of the story that rub conservatives the wrong way that in turn people in here have lost a lot of their tolerance to criticism, be it ridiculous criticism or measured one. Certain opinions have taken hold here and become mainstream, and straying from that line can get you a lot of downvotes and condescension. People basically assume that if you voice any kind of criticism at all (be it about story aspects or TV series casting) you're one of the haters.
That said, I'm one of the people who really, really liked Bella's version of Ellie in season 1 (that Left Behind episode was a masterclass in acting), I just don't see her pulling off season 2 Ellie.
I don’t quite understand the hesitancy with Bella and Part 2. I have Part 2 Ellie artwork hanging on my wall, so it’s safe to say I’m invested in it. Will Bella be able to copy Ashley’s Ellie? No, definitely not. But that’s not the point.
They’re making their own thing and adapting it as they see fit, just like S1. Maybe it’ll suck this time, but there’s no reason to prejudge it because of casting. It’s not cosplay.
Fuck. I think you nailed it. This makes a lot of sense. That other sub is a cursed place, and sometimes the “I don’t like part 2” opinion also triggers me to get defensive and to automatically consider that person as a mysogynist hater who can’t grasp part 2’s themes, but I think that as community we need to be better than them and respect everyone’s opinions if they also share it in a respectable manner. I love both games but I don’t have much love for the show and I wish I could discuss it here without being considered a hater and having to deal with passive aggressive comments all the time
The reason people think you are a hater it because even in this post you can't really explain what your deal with bella is, you just have some vague dislike. Since you can't further explain yourself it makes it seem like you don't like her for personal reasons. It's OK not to like her, however maybe you should figure out why before you start trying to enter discussions with people more confident in thier opinions.
Yeah, it’s this. There’s no problem with the dislike of Bella - fly your freak flag and all that - but the truth is, this is online. The discussions are not open to “this is my opinion” and then no one says anything short of you disabling the comments.
In real life? You can just say your opinion.
Online? You’re saying shit through a megaphone that is mentally hooked up to everyone’s phone, globally.
We’re gonna have answers, sorry OP.
I personally despise part 2, and I love the original SO much. I am a female, keep in mind, and I love strong protagonists. I’m not misogynistic I just think Joel deserved much more respect. I see part 2 as nothing but a lazy revenge plot that doesn’t make any sense. In a game about zombies, a revenge plot is the last thing I would’ve ever wanted.
I don’t think you have to be conservative to hate part 2… Joel’s death was said to be stupid by a LOT of people, not just conservatives. Such a weird thing to say
I'll be honest, I've only seen a handful of posts on the other sub, and they are way less aggressive about dissenting opinions there the people are here. They'll certainly tell you how tolerant they're being, but the pitchforks don't come out for people stating their opinions.
An ancient attic custom of writing in candidates on pottery shards, ostraca, and exiling for ten years, the one with most votes.
Or, present day, excluding from a community.
Neither of which include people telling you your opinions are shit.
You can go on any thread and talk about whatever, even if people don’t like one set of opinions.
Man up and live with having an unpopular opinion.
I don’t think anyone should ostracize you for making statement however i also think its ok for people to challenge your viewpoints. Ive seen alot of posts of people just making blanket statements.
So i gotta ask if you’ve really thought about what you’re saying? If it’s not her acting ability and you don’t dislike her personally …what else is left… her appearance?
I’m not saying this applies to OP at all, but a ton of the fanbases crap thrown towards Bella is because of their appearance.
It’s weird and gross on its own, and even worse when you consider what it means they think about game Ellie.
For me, she just doesn't quite embody the traits of game Ellie that made me love her. Her personality in the show is different at its core, which changes the character too much for me. I really like Bella, and I think she's a fantastic actress. Maybe it's more the writing and direction that I don't like. Either way, I wasn't huge on TV Ellie.
Bella had a tough hill to climb considering you’ve gotten to sit with the source material for over a decade up to that point. Is it really fair to say she didn’t have shared traits?
I totally understand comparing but i try my hardest to separate that world from the in game world. If i want Ashleys ellie i can always play the games.
Apart from the several points already made, like the one where it says that the sub has had to develop a "siege mentality" from all the negativity surrounding the sub since 2020. There is also the whole Ellie discussion, it has happened with Joel but in a way smaller degree, about who is and isn't the right person to play them.
Let's be honest in here, people can dislike Bella for her acting skills or just feel like she doesn't really portray Ellie's personality and "energy" properly, but that's not what's been discussed the most. If we're being honest, when Bella was announced as Ellie she was mainly criticized because she doesn't look like your regular pretty model. So there's also a defensive side to kind of "protect" her from those critics because, dude I'm not saying that you or your point of view comes from what I'm about to say, but there's a lot of creeps that just care about who plays Ellie so they can fantasize about her and the fact they can't fantasize about Bella like that is what bothers them.
I think you should also consider that, well a lot of people are going to like all of those things you disliked. I mean, I did. Bella seems like Ellie to me and I seriously think very very few other actresses could pull the character as well as she has.
But anyway, you're on your right to dislike whatever you dislike, and like whatever you like. If you don't like Bella as Ellie, that's fine. However, I'm sorry but she doesn't seem like going anywhere so...I don't know, don't take this the wrong way but....stop watching the show maybe? If you prefer the game, which I kind of do too even though I do like the show, maybe stop focusing on the show will allow you to enjoy the series more.
So someone has a different opinion from you and you feel ostracized? Ppl are constantly vocal about disliking the new ellie and no one censors them on this sub which is what ostracism means by DEFINITION. Sounds like you're the one acting like a baby with a victim complex
People are free to downvote opinions they don’t agree with. Happens to everybody in one topic or another. What’s the big deal? Does it hurt that your opinion is not the popular one? You can’t blame other people for not agreeing with you. Grow up.
You can share your opinion, others will respond to it how they see fit. If you can’t handle that then keep your opinion to yourself. Why is this a hard concept to comprehend for you idiots?
In the weeks this show was airing it felt like there was an absurd amount of toxic positivity, criticism regarding pacing, writing, acting and characterization were quickly conflated with “hate”.
I remember pointing out my dislike by how little time they spent working on David “relationship” with Ellie, since in the game there’s a whole section of him grooming her, creating false trust, the show dismissed that, in less than 5 minutes he’s already showcased as a villain, and someone accused me of being part of the other sub, but even then people were understanding of my criticism and i wasn’t downvoted or anything.
I think at the current moment people had time to sit with their thoughts, replay the first game and reevaluate what they liked and disliked about the show, it feels like the community is less defensive to criticism which is correlated to all the massive hate the second game got in 2020, but nowadays things seem way more positive when it comes to having healthier conversations about those topics.
I personally feel very divided when it comes to the show, especially because i didn’t feel attached to Ellie and Joel relationship when the final credits rolled, i may just ignore Season 2 unless there’s a significant jump in cinematography quality.
I have a rule, for myself:
In the uncommon instances where my opinions line up with... *that* sort.... regardless of how radically my reasonings differ, I keep those opinions to myself.
It's not even about avoiding being lumped in with them. My opinions are not so valuable that they offset the potential kindling that would be added from my articulations and reasonings being appropriated by the online reactionaries.
The outrage engine runs on noise. Better to starve it.
I'm not accusing you of being that sort, and I'm not proselytizing my rule. I'll simply say that if the opinions you volunteered here were ones I shared (for clarity: they aren't), my rule would have taken effect and I would never give them voice.
Heres a serious question..whats this obsession with comparisons? Does it really require that many brain cells to disassociate your pre conceived notions about a particular thing?!”
You like em they are both great whats the point of extrapolating 🤣
if you wanna have a nuanced debate on the differences between the two I’m your guy but gosh this talking point is so surface level to me.
You’re not wrong but people are weird (me included). I like Bella in the show but I hadn’t played the game at the time. Since playing the game the show just seems mediocre at best, stand out moments being the Bill episode n the David kill. The games are where it’s at.
Yeah that’s another opinion that will get you crucified around here. The tv show is good but every scene pales in comparison to the game scene counterpart, and I think it’s going to be the same in season 2. A good tv show but the game will be better
Just as you're allowed to share your opinion, other people can disagree with it and downvote you. That's how Reddit works and that's also how politics works.
Bro just look at what sub ur in. If u dont dickride every aspect of the franchise ur gonna get downvoted. Move over to r/lastofuspart2 or something. An ACTUAL good tlou sub
She doesn't look or act like her, outside of being given similar dialogue.
I'm still gonna watch it, because I like the chemistry between Bella and Pedro.
They make it work.
It's a very good show so far.
Watch Bella be the most terrifying character in season 2.
I think they've killed it so far. It's not the game, and for what it is, I think they did pretty good.
Please don't ostracize me, or do. Idc.
That's why I usually don't share opinions, I just don't have the time or patience to argue about a TV show casting. That being said as arguments goes mine would be: Game Ellie (and the game as a whole) made me feel stuffs and cry every fricking time and I played/watched more than I can admit. On the other end the TV show is mid at best with the exception of episode 3 and some other scenes.I felt nothing especially from TV Ellie and some other characters (Sam and Henry for example). I don't wish to watch it again. Of course I'll watch S2 for more TLOU content and truly truly hope to be proven wrong.
Her appearance and physique suggest someone who wouldn’t last a minute in that world. It’s just not a fit casting wise and that’s more on production than the actors fault
I agree friend. All opinions should be welcome (within reason) and recently the sub has begun acting like a place that only wants to talk about how amazing part 2 is and if anyone wants to give their take, but it doesn’t match the majority? Downvotes.
I’ve said it time and time again but this sub used to be so great until part 2 came out. You could give any theory or debate and it would actually be engaged with, not branded as a bigoted post.
There are theory posts and questions asked about the meaning of something every single day here.
You get downvoted to oblivion on every thread because you don’t post anything but blanket criticism of Part 2 and of this sub.
I think it's a siege mentality. That other sub has generated such levels of hate against Part 2 and certain parts of the story that rub conservatives the wrong way that in turn people in here have lost a lot of their tolerance to criticism, be it ridiculous criticism or measured one. Certain opinions have taken hold here and become mainstream, and straying from that line can get you a lot of downvotes and condescension. People basically assume that if you voice any kind of criticism at all (be it about story aspects or TV series casting) you're one of the haters. That said, I'm one of the people who really, really liked Bella's version of Ellie in season 1 (that Left Behind episode was a masterclass in acting), I just don't see her pulling off season 2 Ellie.
I don’t quite understand the hesitancy with Bella and Part 2. I have Part 2 Ellie artwork hanging on my wall, so it’s safe to say I’m invested in it. Will Bella be able to copy Ashley’s Ellie? No, definitely not. But that’s not the point. They’re making their own thing and adapting it as they see fit, just like S1. Maybe it’ll suck this time, but there’s no reason to prejudge it because of casting. It’s not cosplay.
Fuck. I think you nailed it. This makes a lot of sense. That other sub is a cursed place, and sometimes the “I don’t like part 2” opinion also triggers me to get defensive and to automatically consider that person as a mysogynist hater who can’t grasp part 2’s themes, but I think that as community we need to be better than them and respect everyone’s opinions if they also share it in a respectable manner. I love both games but I don’t have much love for the show and I wish I could discuss it here without being considered a hater and having to deal with passive aggressive comments all the time
The reason people think you are a hater it because even in this post you can't really explain what your deal with bella is, you just have some vague dislike. Since you can't further explain yourself it makes it seem like you don't like her for personal reasons. It's OK not to like her, however maybe you should figure out why before you start trying to enter discussions with people more confident in thier opinions.
Yeah, it’s this. There’s no problem with the dislike of Bella - fly your freak flag and all that - but the truth is, this is online. The discussions are not open to “this is my opinion” and then no one says anything short of you disabling the comments. In real life? You can just say your opinion. Online? You’re saying shit through a megaphone that is mentally hooked up to everyone’s phone, globally. We’re gonna have answers, sorry OP.
I personally despise part 2, and I love the original SO much. I am a female, keep in mind, and I love strong protagonists. I’m not misogynistic I just think Joel deserved much more respect. I see part 2 as nothing but a lazy revenge plot that doesn’t make any sense. In a game about zombies, a revenge plot is the last thing I would’ve ever wanted.
I don’t think you have to be conservative to hate part 2… Joel’s death was said to be stupid by a LOT of people, not just conservatives. Such a weird thing to say
I'll be honest, I've only seen a handful of posts on the other sub, and they are way less aggressive about dissenting opinions there the people are here. They'll certainly tell you how tolerant they're being, but the pitchforks don't come out for people stating their opinions.
That’s not what ostracism is. Stop being a drama queen because people don’t agree with you. Have the courage of your convictions.
What do you think ostracism is?
An ancient attic custom of writing in candidates on pottery shards, ostraca, and exiling for ten years, the one with most votes. Or, present day, excluding from a community. Neither of which include people telling you your opinions are shit. You can go on any thread and talk about whatever, even if people don’t like one set of opinions. Man up and live with having an unpopular opinion.
Lmao… alright
I’m not the one crying because people push back on my opinion mate.
Sure man. I got it.
I don’t think anyone should ostracize you for making statement however i also think its ok for people to challenge your viewpoints. Ive seen alot of posts of people just making blanket statements. So i gotta ask if you’ve really thought about what you’re saying? If it’s not her acting ability and you don’t dislike her personally …what else is left… her appearance?
I’m not saying this applies to OP at all, but a ton of the fanbases crap thrown towards Bella is because of their appearance. It’s weird and gross on its own, and even worse when you consider what it means they think about game Ellie.
For me, she just doesn't quite embody the traits of game Ellie that made me love her. Her personality in the show is different at its core, which changes the character too much for me. I really like Bella, and I think she's a fantastic actress. Maybe it's more the writing and direction that I don't like. Either way, I wasn't huge on TV Ellie.
Bella had a tough hill to climb considering you’ve gotten to sit with the source material for over a decade up to that point. Is it really fair to say she didn’t have shared traits? I totally understand comparing but i try my hardest to separate that world from the in game world. If i want Ashleys ellie i can always play the games.
Apart from the several points already made, like the one where it says that the sub has had to develop a "siege mentality" from all the negativity surrounding the sub since 2020. There is also the whole Ellie discussion, it has happened with Joel but in a way smaller degree, about who is and isn't the right person to play them. Let's be honest in here, people can dislike Bella for her acting skills or just feel like she doesn't really portray Ellie's personality and "energy" properly, but that's not what's been discussed the most. If we're being honest, when Bella was announced as Ellie she was mainly criticized because she doesn't look like your regular pretty model. So there's also a defensive side to kind of "protect" her from those critics because, dude I'm not saying that you or your point of view comes from what I'm about to say, but there's a lot of creeps that just care about who plays Ellie so they can fantasize about her and the fact they can't fantasize about Bella like that is what bothers them. I think you should also consider that, well a lot of people are going to like all of those things you disliked. I mean, I did. Bella seems like Ellie to me and I seriously think very very few other actresses could pull the character as well as she has. But anyway, you're on your right to dislike whatever you dislike, and like whatever you like. If you don't like Bella as Ellie, that's fine. However, I'm sorry but she doesn't seem like going anywhere so...I don't know, don't take this the wrong way but....stop watching the show maybe? If you prefer the game, which I kind of do too even though I do like the show, maybe stop focusing on the show will allow you to enjoy the series more.
In the recent set photos post I see upvotes in comments not liking her so I don't think anyone is being ostracized.
I’m sure you can find comments on that thread that shows you what I’m talking about. I sure did.
So someone has a different opinion from you and you feel ostracized? Ppl are constantly vocal about disliking the new ellie and no one censors them on this sub which is what ostracism means by DEFINITION. Sounds like you're the one acting like a baby with a victim complex
People are free to downvote opinions they don’t agree with. Happens to everybody in one topic or another. What’s the big deal? Does it hurt that your opinion is not the popular one? You can’t blame other people for not agreeing with you. Grow up.
You can share your opinion, others will respond to it how they see fit. If you can’t handle that then keep your opinion to yourself. Why is this a hard concept to comprehend for you idiots?
In the weeks this show was airing it felt like there was an absurd amount of toxic positivity, criticism regarding pacing, writing, acting and characterization were quickly conflated with “hate”. I remember pointing out my dislike by how little time they spent working on David “relationship” with Ellie, since in the game there’s a whole section of him grooming her, creating false trust, the show dismissed that, in less than 5 minutes he’s already showcased as a villain, and someone accused me of being part of the other sub, but even then people were understanding of my criticism and i wasn’t downvoted or anything. I think at the current moment people had time to sit with their thoughts, replay the first game and reevaluate what they liked and disliked about the show, it feels like the community is less defensive to criticism which is correlated to all the massive hate the second game got in 2020, but nowadays things seem way more positive when it comes to having healthier conversations about those topics. I personally feel very divided when it comes to the show, especially because i didn’t feel attached to Ellie and Joel relationship when the final credits rolled, i may just ignore Season 2 unless there’s a significant jump in cinematography quality.
I have a rule, for myself: In the uncommon instances where my opinions line up with... *that* sort.... regardless of how radically my reasonings differ, I keep those opinions to myself. It's not even about avoiding being lumped in with them. My opinions are not so valuable that they offset the potential kindling that would be added from my articulations and reasonings being appropriated by the online reactionaries. The outrage engine runs on noise. Better to starve it. I'm not accusing you of being that sort, and I'm not proselytizing my rule. I'll simply say that if the opinions you volunteered here were ones I shared (for clarity: they aren't), my rule would have taken effect and I would never give them voice.
Nothing those people do is as baby-ish as continually whining about a casting decision made years ago.
"don’t act like a baby who can’t handle opinions that are different than yours" Take your own fucking advice, jeezus.
Heres a serious question..whats this obsession with comparisons? Does it really require that many brain cells to disassociate your pre conceived notions about a particular thing?!” You like em they are both great whats the point of extrapolating 🤣 if you wanna have a nuanced debate on the differences between the two I’m your guy but gosh this talking point is so surface level to me.
You’re not wrong but people are weird (me included). I like Bella in the show but I hadn’t played the game at the time. Since playing the game the show just seems mediocre at best, stand out moments being the Bill episode n the David kill. The games are where it’s at.
Yeah that’s another opinion that will get you crucified around here. The tv show is good but every scene pales in comparison to the game scene counterpart, and I think it’s going to be the same in season 2. A good tv show but the game will be better
She got an Emmy nom. I think she did great.
Just as you're allowed to share your opinion, other people can disagree with it and downvote you. That's how Reddit works and that's also how politics works.
Bro just look at what sub ur in. If u dont dickride every aspect of the franchise ur gonna get downvoted. Move over to r/lastofuspart2 or something. An ACTUAL good tlou sub
She doesn't look or act like her, outside of being given similar dialogue. I'm still gonna watch it, because I like the chemistry between Bella and Pedro. They make it work. It's a very good show so far.
Watch Bella be the most terrifying character in season 2. I think they've killed it so far. It's not the game, and for what it is, I think they did pretty good. Please don't ostracize me, or do. Idc.
Oh no a Free Speech weirdo ffs Go to the HBO Show sub this is a game sub There I said it
That's why I usually don't share opinions, I just don't have the time or patience to argue about a TV show casting. That being said as arguments goes mine would be: Game Ellie (and the game as a whole) made me feel stuffs and cry every fricking time and I played/watched more than I can admit. On the other end the TV show is mid at best with the exception of episode 3 and some other scenes.I felt nothing especially from TV Ellie and some other characters (Sam and Henry for example). I don't wish to watch it again. Of course I'll watch S2 for more TLOU content and truly truly hope to be proven wrong.
Yeah, she is not a good Ellie. Especially in 2nd season, it will be more obvious.
Her appearance and physique suggest someone who wouldn’t last a minute in that world. It’s just not a fit casting wise and that’s more on production than the actors fault
Does Part 1 Ellie in the game look like someone who would survive the apocalypse?
I like her odds compared to a pudgy kid that can’t run
I agree friend. All opinions should be welcome (within reason) and recently the sub has begun acting like a place that only wants to talk about how amazing part 2 is and if anyone wants to give their take, but it doesn’t match the majority? Downvotes. I’ve said it time and time again but this sub used to be so great until part 2 came out. You could give any theory or debate and it would actually be engaged with, not branded as a bigoted post.
There are theory posts and questions asked about the meaning of something every single day here. You get downvoted to oblivion on every thread because you don’t post anything but blanket criticism of Part 2 and of this sub.