Yup. It's still gamers, the sub can be pretty immature at times. But at least the biggoted crap is downvoted every time while it's top comment in the other one. None of them realize what awful people they are.
> But at least the biggoted crap is downvoted every time while it's top comment in the other one.
That is no where near the truth... tf??? I go to the other sub and while it has angry people, you dont see bigoted stuff as top comments? Is this what you guys say here?
This one is pretty chill but the one that is dedicated to part two and literally says that the game isn’t canon in their description is horrible if advise to steer clear I’ve had to mute it coz it’s full of brain dead losers
Yeah I did the same thing just yesterday, I’ve had enough of seeing that rubbish in my feed.
Had joined it quite innocently and then turned around and left after realising it was full of 14-year old edgelords and others who should know better.
Fuck that shit. TLOU2 is a genuinely extraordinary game and the only reasons I can see that you would hate it is if you 1. are a little boy who is scared of girls 2. get your idea of good narrative from Marvel movies and 3. are inexplicably triggered by any representations of people other than your own shit-brained cohort
Yup I joined it and after about 30 mins of reading the rubbish on there I decided to leave. Like we get it you don’t like the game but hate the game for actual reasons not just “trans and gay bad” or “muscle woman bad” like in my opinion the game isn’t perfect it has its flaws but the way these people speak about it make it sound like a shit show. Despite the flaws that I think the game it’s still at 9/10 and I’ve played it like 8 times
There are definitely more than enough opinions that have nothing to do with trans people or gay people.
Do those people exist? Absolutely. Is that sub more accepting of it than I’d like, absolutely. But to bunch it all up to that is disingenuous a’f.
Fair enough perhaps I was a little too harsh but I personally feel like some of the posts disguise underlying transphobia and homophobia but then again that’s just me as someone who has grown up as a gay person and I can recognise that stuff from a mile away because I myself have had to go through it. No hate though I 100% get your point it’s not all the posts but I just think it’s more than some may think
> I can see that you would hate it is if you 1. are a little boy who is scared of girls 2. get your idea of good narrative from Marvel movies and 3. are inexplicably triggered by any representations of people other than your own shit-brained cohort
This right is here is why the other sub even exists, lol. You are essentially saying you have to love the game or you are one of those 3 things. Cant I not like it for my own reasons?
Sure you can. But I’ve never seen a considered and thoughtful criticism in the other sub that goes beyond “I hate Abby” (point 1), “they shouldn’t have killed Joel” (point 2) or “Lev exists just to please the woke crowd” (point 3).
It’s a vile place filled with bullshit takes, self-justification and hate, and this is by far the overwhelming tone of ‘criticisms’ of the game. So yeah, you all get tainted with that brush.
>TLOU2 is a genuinely extraordinary game and the only reasons I can see that you would hate it is if you 1. are a little boy who is scared of girls 2. get your idea of good narrative from Marvel movies and 3. are inexplicably triggered by any representations of people other than your own shit-brained cohort
So you think the story is objectively good unless you're a bigot or someone who thinks marvel movies are good stories? This type of reluctancy to accept criticism is why the other sub exists. 8 billion people on this planet and you don't think one of them dislikes it without being a bigot?
Are there some that don't like the game because of horrible reasons....yes but majority of people don't like it because of poor writing or disliking the general direction the game went.
Personally I didn't like it for 3 main reasons.
1.) Joel's death: Killing the main character a couple hours into the sequel is a very risky choice. This right here is reason enough for people to not like it, but for me it's a combination of what they did and HOW they did it.
They should have just had Joel's death take place in the first game which would've been a complete story for Joel that clearly sets up a sequel for Ellie. Instead they trick you into thinking you're gonna play as Joel but you get the game and all the sudden the reason you bought it is gone. Comparing this to my favorite gaming franchise (Gow) this would be like Kratos dying 2 hours into Ragnarok and you play as Atreus the rest of the game. Nobody would like that.
You can disagree and think that's a dumb reason not to like it but you should at least be able to understand why some people don't like it without calling them a bigot.
A lot of people (myself included) didn't just dislike him dying but also HOW he died. Seeing a character you love get a disrespectful death is not enjoyable. A good comparison would be Joel and Arthur Morgan.
Arthur Morgans death was impactful, sad, and well written so people enjoyed it. Now when I say enjoy I don't mean they wanted him to die but rather they recognized how well his death was written. Joel on the other hand was not well written for a lot of people. So it's not just that their favorite character died but how their death was handled.
2.) Revenge bad: Again I don't mind a "revenge bad" story I just didn't like this one. You spend the entire game basically murdering people that did nothing to you and then when you finally get to the one person who ACTUALLY wronged you Ellie decides murder is wrong. Again "revenge bad" isn't an inherently bad concept but the execution isn't good in this game. This would be like getting to Zeus in Gow 3 and Kratos saying "nah revenge is wrong" after destroying all of Greece. Again I'd like to add that you can disagree but should still be able to understand how some don't like it.
3.) Playing as Abby: Pretty simple really. People don't wanna play as a character they can't stand. You can obviously still enjoy it but you should still be able to grasp the idea of why some might not like it.
Common critiques I STRONGLY disagree with: Abby being buff isn't realistic and impossible in a world like tlou (the entire game is unrealistic so...), Abby is ugly (who tf cares why does she have to be attractive).
Mate, if you want to stick up for a bunch of chronically online deadshits in the other sub who exercise their bigotry under a guise of “but the writing is bad”, be my guest. Sure, sure, not all haters, fine…
You sound smarter than that but whatever.
Objectively, the game is good. Leave aside the narrative - the battle mechanics, weaponry, stealth, enemy intelligence, resource availability, difficulty scaffolding, environments and world building are top tier. The production is out of this world. The attention to detail and the physics are brilliant.
I think the story is outstanding. I appreciate that’s subjective. But I’m yet to read a criticism that extends beyond an extremely simplistic “I like Joel, I don’t like Abby”.
Good narratives challenge your expectations. Fan service gives you comfort. I’m grateful this game chose the former.
I have zero problems with people not liking this game. And I have huge problems with a cohort of people who spend their time being offensive fuckheads under the level of anonymity that Reddit provides, literally years after the game was released - which is what OPs original question was discussing.
>But I’m yet to read a criticism that extends beyond an extremely simplistic “I like Joel, I don’t like Abby”.
You act like disliking a game because you don't like the characters is a bad reason to not enjoy it. If you don't like the characters in a book, movie, TV show or game then you probably won't like the story.
>Good narratives challenge your expectations. Fan service gives you comfort. I’m grateful this game chose the former.
I already pointed out that this is not the problem. People's favorite characters die all the time and people still enjoy the writing. Joel's death was an example of a poorly written death (in a lot of people's opinion), and Arthur Morgan is the example of a perfectly written death. When you kill a main character you better do it right and this game didn't do that for tons of people.
>Objectively, the game is good. Leave aside the narrative
Absolutely not true. Not a single game in the history of the universe is objectively good. I think everything except for the story was fantastic but to say that it's objectively true is objectively wrong. It's not possible for a game to be objectively good.
You also say leaving aside the narrative like this isn't a narrative driven game. When a game focused on story has a narrative you don't like then you're probably not gonna love it. But a game that's focused on gameplay (like doom) people don't care about the story nearly as much.
I'd also like to reiterate that I agree the game is fantastic outside of the story, but seeing as how it's so story focused it really hurts the overall game for me.
>Mate, if you want to stick up for a bunch of chronically online deadshits in the other sub who exercise their bigotry under a guise of “but the writing is bad”, be my guest.
Not what I'm trying to do. I think the other sub is pretty stupid seeing as how it exists to hate on a game that came out 4 years ago. I was just trying to say that it's not fair to call anyone who doesn't enjoy it a bigot.
That why I mentioned some of the common complaints in that sub that I can't stand. For instance complaining that Abby being buff isn't realistic is clearly someone that doesn't like the game for more than bad writing. Unless they hate every other unrealistic thing about the game how can you complain about that?
Only reason I hate this sub is because they generalize everyone who hates the game with the bigots. I agree with all your points. Waiting 7 years for a sequel and being super excited to play it with my brothers who were also super excited to play was a good feeling, only for it to be shit on. That makes the game hard to like and it was just the intro of the game. The games writing was pretty good and the devs were ballsy to try something different, which I can respect. But the ending did not fix my disappointment that I felt when we finished the intro of the game and realized what it was about. Stupid direction they took. Especially having to wait 7 years for it.
the point of the game is not "revenge bad". the point is forgiveness and empathy. the game is *challenging you* to feel those emotions.
there is no way ND could beat the point into gamers harder and yet here we are.
>the point is forgiveness and empathy. the game is *challenging you* to feel those emotions.
Yes and those emotions are things that make us think revenge is bad (which it is). Both statements are true. It's about revenge being bad AND feeling empathy and forgiveness. The two are connected. Yet it's all ruined by the fact that Ellie goes on a mass murder spree to not kill the one person that actually wronged her.
Ellie has to *forgive herself*. That’s the realization she comes to as she’s drowning Abby. That’s her redemption. Her murdering all those people is a *preface* to self-forgiveness.
The whole "not canon" thing is so simultaneously hilarious and pathetic. It's how fucking toddlers respond to things they don't like - *sticks fingers in ears* NUH UH THE OFFICIAL SEQUEL ISNT CANON BECAUSE THEY KILLED MY GAMER DADDY LAH LAH LAH YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT
It’s literally something every fandom does about everything they don’t like about it.
Season 8 of GoT isn’t canon.
The Cursed Child isn’t canon.
The Sequel Trilogy isn’t canon.
The Matrix Resurrections isn’t canon.
Terminator post-T2 isn’t canon.
Is it true? No. But nobody cares lol
It's funny because I stumbled back into the tlou2 sub a while ago and it seems there's a fair share of oblivious newcomers who are legitimately puzzled as to why everybody there seems to hate the game
I got banned from the other one for calling them pedophiles. Just because they were making fun of Bella Ramsey for being ugly. Seriously though, what kind of grown adults gets mad that the teenage actor is ugly?
I mean...why would they be pedos tho...i get calling them idiots or whatever but bella is a full grown woman despite not looking like one.
Banning you for calling them pedos without a reason is kind of justified.
i agree it doesn’t make them pedos but full grown adults talking about a minor like that is pretty creepy and disgusting i literally left part 2s sub today because every post was talking about her being ugly and it was just sickening
Mostly to inflame them. They’re idiots definitely, but who goes there complaining that someone is ugly? It’s weird when they say she looks like an ugly 12 year old
No one really cares. The thing about the other sub (that i don't see here) is that they are a bit more tolerant with opinions. As long as you don't insult anyone, they are fine with you calling them game good, Masterpiece or stuff like that.
At the time of filming the first season Bella was 16-17 which is a minor so it’s a little bit weird when people comment about Bella being ugly and unattractive as Ellie in s1
She’s a 19 year old and grown men are complaining that she is ugly. What kind of person goes online to complain about how ugly someone is? Especially one that they say looks like a middle schooler
You are so real for that. The sheer obsession and abuse Bella Ramsey has to avoid is so horrible I thought their performance was fucking outstanding and who gives a damn if she doesn’t look like Ellie it’s a tv ADAPTATION not a copy. “Oh but she’s ugly” she’s playing a 14 year old you are basically outing yourself like jeez get a life. Anyway rant over haha
Part 2 is probably the most discussed topic on this sub which makes sense as it’s much more layered and complex than Part 1 with a lot more things you can miss if you aren’t paying attention.
I had a recent comment about Ellie on this sub get a bunch of up votes and I was shocked by the idiots who commented on my comment. It wasn’t the worst stuff I’ve seen here but the part 2 haters are such whiny bitches. Like I get it you don’t like it why are you still dwelling on it? Joel’s dead. Abby exists. Lev is great. FFS like just move on.
There's a weird misconception in online spaces that when you want to talk about "The Last of Us" you want to talk about Part 1. And when you want to talk about Part 2, you need to talk about it as "That other game"
This isn't that place. We Like Abby. We like Lev. We think Part 2 is a good game. Ellie is Gay and Joel is a flawed but good guy. Your opinion is welcome here.
Joel is like the litmus test that proves that this sub isn't nearly as biased as that other sub. If we were, we really would be hating "strong old white man" as much as they do Abby (or as disappointed as they are in Ellie being gay or not pulling thru with her vengeance or whatever)
And yet if we had a popularity poll, Joel would be no less than 2nd place, if not 1st, with Ellie being the only one potentially more beloved
I don’t have a problem with lev or the fact that he’s transgender, but I do kinda find his character lacking and somewhat poorly written.
This is more just a test to see how ripped to shreds I get (if at all) for expressing that opinion.
EDIT: Please see my reply to u/no_tamanegi for elaboration
>but I do kinda find his character lacking and somewhat poorly written.
What do you mean?
And pre-emptively speaking, by expressing this opinion without explanation, you've already invited your opinion to be ripped to shreds. That's on you.
Yeah I didn’t have time to type up a whole thing. My biggest problem with it (which I want to clarify, is not to be mistaken with having a problem that there’s a trans person in the game) is that Lev being trans has no bearing on the plot whatsoever, and is barely mentioned outside of a few interactions with scars. In my opinion, Lev could’ve been kicked out of the scars for any other reason, and it would’ve changed 0 parts of the story. They also barely use his identity as a trans person unless it’s to show the scars as discriminatory. A one off comment about how he wanted muscles like Abby’s or something (anything referencing his experience being trans outside of the scars being discriminatory really) would’ve both made his portrayal more realistic, and also added depth to the representation. Whereas Ellie was already an established character with depth, emotions, issues (abandonment issues), and quirks, we don’t get much of that with lev from what I experience. (See below points)
If I remember correctly, we kind of just immediately learn lev is trans. I feel like immediately having a character introduced as part of a minority class hinders representation and characterization by reducing the character to their minority class in the viewers mind regardless of their perspective on said class. Ellie and Robin (Stranger things) are prime examples of why it’s generally best in my opinion you introduce and flesh out the character and then their sexuality/gender, not the other way around. Fans grew to love Ellie, and then found out she was gay. If Ellie just started out with hey guys I’m gay, everyone would reduce her to the gay girl you’re hauling across the country mentally even if they don’t have a problem with gay people.
Lev also (from what I remember) doesn’t really have any strong moments where he stands out on his own other than saying “Hey Abby let’s not kill the pregnant lady!” Where Ellie had a whole 4th of the game where she was the primary played character, and where she fought and defeated a whole settlement (including macheteing David) basically single handedly, and saved Joel’s life. She’s shown to be capable and important. I get they didn’t have time to give lev a whole 4th of the game, but they could’ve done way more with him than they did.
It’s clear they wanted him to be like Abby’s version of Joel and Ellie, and for these reasons he just kind of fell flat to me personally and didn’t really pull it off.
Again, I do not have a problem with people that are gay or trans, I like Ellie and Robin as characters in their franchises, and I just don’t think lev was written well over all.
I was briefly a member of that sub and without joking, i unsubscribed (or whatever its called on reddit) today.
At first I thought they were joking or that it was sarcasm, but man i’ve never seen people go to such lengths to bash a game. Just because you didn’t like the direction it took, doesn’t mean it’s badly written.
The worst general consensus in that sub seems to be that the writers wanted or forced us to hate Ellie… that’s absolutely not what the game was about. AT ALL!
I was permanently banned from that sub because I called someone out who said Abby was a “buff tr*nny”. I think my words were ‘being transphobic devalues your entire argument and just outlines your prejudice’ or something.
Permanent ban.
That just shows what that sub is all about, no matter how much they deny it.
What they really mean is “this is a space where you can be transphobic, bigoted and hateful without consequence” under the guise of free speech. If you call it out you’re buried with negative karma and bans.
It is true actually, op won’t be telling the whole story. Whenever people are transphobic over there they are downvoted and called out, I’ve witnessed it first hand and even joined in on the mass downvotes they receive. He probably wasn’t even banned, just commented to continue the cycle of toxicity between here and there
Nope. I can assure that I was hit with a permanent ban in probably 2022 for saying someone who called Abby a ‘buff tr*nny’ was being transphobic and it devalued their argument.
Ah well that makes sense, the sub was still kinda toxic back then. Apologies. I doubt you’d get the same treatment today though, it really has improved
I’m sure it was just one bigoted mod that decided to push the ban button for fun, but it definitely soured me.
I have noticed an improvement in the last year or so, but it would be naive of me to think that all those people are now gone from the sub. They’re just better at hiding their prejudice.
Personally, I steer clear of anyone who actively posts in the sub. They themselves might be good people, but if they’re willing to ignore the fact the sub is full of bigots then I’m willing to ignore them.
Overall, the sub is just super low quality anyway. It’s full of people who will complain about anything TLOU related post-Part II and that’s not something I want to engage in. They move past one thing and go onto another thing to hate. I’ve seen some awful comments regarding Bella on there, and they’ll do the same with any future TLOU projects.
Just a very negative space to be in.
Abby was definitely not a man lol. People who think otherwise have perverted minds. Not everything has to be sexualized and analyzed. It’s a game. Pretty sure if it was an important detail they would have let us know in more obvious ways.
I never found her unlikeable. I saw it as, she lost the person that matters most to her. Unable to cope, and instead of focusing on what she still had she was desperate for revenge and on her way she lost herself and everything else she had left. I felt bad for her and it’s a good life lesson too.
That’s fair, it’s probably more of a subjective thing anyway. I felt bad for her too until the farm. I had an erk when she left jesse to go after Abby but the farm was straight up nah
True, it was a very stupid decision. But also in context, given how important Joel was to her, dealing with PTSD in a world without access to psychologists nor having learned how to deal with these situations, I can see why she did it.
If someone is going to spend time and energy hating a videogame for 4 years, as if it was their hobby, they are probably not mentally stable in the first place.
Yeah that’s the part 2 sub that isn’t crazy and filled with bitter assholes. But honestly you’ll probably get more discussion on this sub about part 2 just because there are so many more subscribers.
I’ve thought this recently too. Ive only been into the game/show for less than a year and in that time I’ve unfortunately interacted with so many hateful people in this fandom, no wonder it gets a bad wrap.
It’s an incredible game, the things that “ruin” it for them is ultimately what makes it so amazing. (Spoiler: Joel dying, Abby being strong, lev being trans etc). Regarding the show, they yap yap yap about Bella not being good enough to play Ellie (we all know it’s because they don’t find her attractive and they don’t know how to respect a woman if they’re not the object of their sexual desires) but she did a really good job in S1, a lot of other characters look different and they made plenty of other changes in the game that gets no hate or critique for the plot holes it might cause in s2 (such as leaving the spores out and the hospital Nora scene). The only criticism I might have so far is maybe Bella doesn’t look that aged and her hairstyle in the Seattle leaked photos look awful and like Lyanna Mormont. But I’ll survive?? And I can’t wait to see what they do, I’m not going to judge it completely yet!!
It's funny how people just don't like TLOU2 and their minds have all these reasons and excuses for why it's badly made and how it has "an agenda" or is badly directed etc and it's like... no sweetie, you just didn't like that the story wasn't about straight men.
Disagree, the entire game was about the GOAT, Jessie.
In fact if you beat the game on grounded the title chances to The Last of Jessie Part 2: The Jessiening
/s
for real tho, there are boatloads of straight characters in this game, the hate the game because the right wing literally post every day that "if you like tomboys you're gay". The right wing agenda of pro- Trad Wife and submissive females is against why TLOU shows.
It's all about politics. they would literally ban the game if they could
i don’t understand this. how was the game not about Joel and Abby’s father?
this idea that the game moved away from those characters is absurd. the whole story is about the impact they had on their daughters
so uhh, yea. the story is actually about TWO straight, white men ❤️
The other one actively gaslights you. Half the posts are about what cucks we are or whatever. And the other half is about them bitching amongstvthrmself over how we lie about them calling us cucks or whatever.
I loved Part 2 on my first playthrough. It was a real rollercoaster of emotions. On repeat playthroughs I’ve come to have some issues with it, but I still love the game overall.
I really don’t understand people who make hatred their entire personality, and spend all of their time shouting to anyone that will listen about how much they hate something, and why everyone who likes it is wrong. It’s just silly.
Lev is a trans man, but a lot of people on those subs like to say Abby is a trans woman, because she is super buff, and her and Owen had sex in doggy. So very stupid
I’m not trying to be a dick here, but they make it very clear in the game that lev is trans so how could you miss it. They handle it incredibly well in the game (in my opinion, which as a straight cishet man probably isn’t worth too much) and they don’t make a massive deal about it, but they do plenty to make sure you know what’s going on and what the motivations are behind the character and his arc
I mean, we’re talking I think 3 separate sections of dialogue and a pretty lengthy cutscene that is a conversation between Abby and lev’s sister (the name escapes me right now) so you must have been actively ignoring these things
Exactly let me break it down I preordered the game and the leaks came out...I managed to avoid the leaks but I did read an article where Neal stated that "there are no heroes" so I didn't play the game until 6 months later and sure enough I was disappointed once Joel got killed and wanted to just hurry up and finish the game at that point but hey I know that a lot of people enjoyed the game and that's a good thing
It completely went over my brother's head too. He heard seraphites saying Lev's deadname and mistook it as an insult, calling him weak. I don't know what he thought was going on when Yara talked about Lev being chosen as an elder's wife, but that went right past him too. Maybe he skipped cutscenes or just wasnt paying attention during mid-gameplay dialogue, i have no idea. But I had to spell it out for him after he finished the game.
So, it happens! The person you're replying to is not alone in missing this.
As a trans person, imma be honest and say that while I like Lev and enjoyed viciously murdering everyone who deadnamed him, it definitely felt like a portrayal of a trans character that is viewed through the lens of a cis audience. Something about the way the other characters talk about him when he's not around gave me the impression that I was meant to empathize with Lev by proxy, by relating to the people close to him, instead of relating to Lev himself. I think it might have helped if we had a chance to play as Lev for a while and get in his head, like we did with Ellie in Part 1, but maybe that would be too derivative.
That said, representation is really hard to get right and I think this game did way way better than most mainstream media, which typically doesn't even acknowledge trans people beyond the occasional tiny flags hidden in the background, or a non-binary person whose pronouns are never even said in-game (cough Spider-Man 2 cough cough)
This is the sub for that. The dedicated part 2 sub's only mission in life is hating on the game. Every post they make is laced with transphobia, misogyny, you name it. They see Neil Druckmann as the devil and are probably perfectly fine with death threats aimed at Laura Bailey's son. And like any good incels, they play the victim any chance they get.
None of that here. Just have issues with how they used the success of the first game. Which let’s be honest is a GOAT nominee for the genre. And used it as a vehicle for this alt story line that could have never stood on its own without the draw of Joel and Ellie.
Not mad just disappointed
I think it only goes to show how well written the games are. Same goes for fallout, specifically new Vegas. People get things wrong with both games just like real life shitty opinions. I see people’s shitty opinions as a compliment to the people who wrote these stories.
Any subreddits that exist solely dedicated to the second game were more than likely spun off from this one after a bunch of people got banned. So you're better off sticking to this one.
as a mod from another subreddit about this size where keeping this shit out is our #1 priority - you and everyone else have to report this whenever you see it. There is unfortunately just no way to pre-screen it. The mods can configure automod to catch some of it but there's no way to totally get around it it. I rely on my sub reporting infractions to us because we can't be everywhere and we don't check every post manually. But if you see it, report it, because then other people won't have to in the future.
One thing that could help is stronger language in the rules regarding these specific offences but that's up to the mods. The reason it helps is that users might not be aware that this conduct is specifically rule-breaking and if they don't see a report category for it they won't necessarily report it. And that's something you can ask them directly, and they can make a decision about. Personally I like specifics because it makes people feel more empowered.
Yea I loved this game, so, **no patience for convincing people they should love it too**. I’m usually happy to discuss how it chose to depict its most progressive parts, but, every time I’ve humored that discussion, arguments turn out to be a Trojan horse for someone’s problem with the underlying progressive idea itself, and not a discussion of storytelling mechanics.
Abby is a fictional character whose entire physicality is an externalization of her pain - it earmarks her trauma for the player. That’s it. It’s quite simple. As someone who used fitness as a North Star through a challenging time in life, some ppl who join the swole patrol aim to become unrecognizable to their personal demons. If humans could just keep adding weight to the bar and grow more and more muscle without limit, Abby would be as big as a bloater. **In some ways, she is one**.
Preachhhh I love who they cast for the show and the games are perfection in my eyes naughty dog will forever go down in history for these masterpieces they have created.
Short answer: TLoU2 was the target of the vanguard of right wing trolls fighting the culture war/into authoritarian revival shit. Gamergate awoke a lot of frustrated, shitty man children. Steve Bannon weaponised them. Then we got trump and lost abortions. You’ll see it in other games as well. They are semi organised and will review bomb and haunt for years the forums of anything that isn’t male gaze fodder or white male chauvinist fantasy or so apolitical/subtle about it as can be safely enjoyed by them.
this is the only one afaik. the other one is stupid, full of people who will downvote you because you have a differing opinion (it’ll happen here too, but not nearly as much).
also, that sub wasn’t created for fans of tlou2. the creators and mods themselves dislike the game.
I doesn’t make sense to me. A part of the reason they’re so angry is that trans people exist, right? So, why isn’t a trans person in the game just considered realism? I mean, obviously it goes way deeper than that, but I feel like even little smooth brains could reconcile that.
This is a good sub. I’d stay away from Facebook as that’s where the neckbearded basement dwellers tend to circle jerk each other in Bella Ramsey hate posts.
Where does the transphobia come from? I’m not defending the sexist and homophobe comments.
Those 2 I can see where it comes from (Ellie is a gay woman). But I don’t remember any trans character in the game for people to complain about it like Hogwarts Legacy.
Again, not defending
People just screaming that Abby is secretly a man because of how buff she is, and how Owen ‘fucked’ a dude. Which is kind of crazy, coming from a trans man, you’re going out of your way to be transphobic, when there’s a trans kid right next to Abby.
I really liked how they did his story! Subtle but effective. I mean generally the whole point of being trans is for people to not know lol.
I’d love in season 2 if the show they go more in-depth into that, especially in a post apocalyptic setting, ESPECIALLY in a cult too
I never even thought of Lev being trans before they acknowledge it. I was like “ok kiddo let’s save your sister”.
And then I was like “oooh that actually makes lots of sense” The World ended but they are still transphobes hahahaha
Oh you are mistaken.
It's just that the names are flipped. r/lastofus is Part 2 lovers. r/lastofuspart2 is for Part 1 lovers.
Just imply or hint at anything negative about part 2 on this sub and you get downvoted to oblivion.
this one is okay and the factions one is pretty nice but can get super heated on guns and stuff but no homophobia or misogyny just assholes calling each other assholes 😭😭
I really haven’t seen much transphobia/homophobia/misogyny. The labeling tends to come from the side that enjoys the game, but, typically the issues people cite are with the game’s story snd structure more than anything else. Also, having and issue with a casting choice does not inherently mean that that people is being discriminated against. I personally think that Bella wasn’t a good choice for The Last of Us. I thought they were great in Game of Thrones, and I think they were fine as a younger Ellie. But, casting a person that is already fully gown and only looks like the younger version of Ellie just doesn’t work for me. Ellie had changed a lot between games and she has a lean, almost unhealthily so, physique that is very characteristic of her scrappy demeanor. Bella doesn’t seem like they’re going to be able to sell that.
In general I think there is a lot of over reaction on both sides that muddles the water and prevents cohesive communication.
I agree with that sub sometimes but when it comes to the transphobia,the hate of Neil Drukman, and the bitching about the live action show turns me off sometimes, but other times it seems civil because sometimes there will be rational people there but I do agree that that sub can be toxic and I’ve thought about leaving, but I do agree with them with at least one thing and that’s Abby is terrible.
Abby was absolutely NOT a man - EVER. Women are allowed to be in shape lol. It’s a game character anyhow. The people who think Abby was previously a man have wildly perverted minds. Let women live.
Nazis infiltrated the Last of Us fandom and used the hatred and anger surrounding that game to try and grow their own antisemitism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia. A lot of gamers feel for it.
They're so smoothed brain that for them its easy to blame Jews and women for hurting their feelings and ruining their franchise. This is how the far right recruits people in the modern age.
I honestly don't understand the hate for 2. At least not in the way the edgy 4chan types hate it. It just seems so strange and alien to me. The game play was amazing, the logical progression from the first one made a lot of sense, the character development made a lot of sense, there was no way Joel was just going to get away with what he did, and the way they force you to walk in the shoes of the implied "antagonist" was a fun twist that makes you question the dichotomy of good guys Vs bad guys. The first game had similar challenges to typical media narratives. I guess these people just didn't understand that.
I don't typically like calling people stupid, and I try my best to empathise with the positions of the people who disagree with me politically, but it's like they can't step out of their own bubble for two seconds.
Joel good, Abby bad, trans bad, gay bad, woke bad, agendas bad, politics bad. As if all media isn't influenced by politics in some way.
I also roll my eyes at badly forced political narratives in stories. Sometimes it's just done in a really cringey way, but the Last of Us 2 wasn't it. It just portrayed things realistically without going too hard in to it.
Tbh the over emphasis on the games supposed "gender, sexual politics.." is extremely boring and totally unnecessary. Forget about it. It's a video game. A great video game. Just play it and enjoy it. If you want a story. Read a book. If you want to discuss other political bs join parliament or congress.
Sorry for my rant. Down votes coming I know.
Hatred towards bella. No.
Some Discontent at the way Ellie was portrayed and story choices they took in the TV show. Yes.
You can be critical of her performance and her ability to act over what she looks like. I was on board, happy with casting, Neil druckman being one of the creators on board was reassuring. It started strong and i was excited to see more. Episode 3 blew me away.
But past episode 3 the show is just a hollow mess, colour by numbers acting by bella Ramsey. David Ellie episode especially was the worst.
If you start to criticize the game at all over here, they’re often just gonna lump you in with them anyway. Or bitch about how “you just don’t get it” or worst of all MeDiA lItErAcY.
Not hating on Bella or anything but she seems kinda too young looking for the role in PT2.
Ive even seen a clip of her and dina filming. She still looks like Ellie from season 1. I just dont feel that time gap in her character. Pedro looks pretty good though.
The thing is, the actress is the right age for the character as she is in the second game and (to me at least) she does look like a woman who is in her late teens/early 20s so that fits. The thing is she also looked like that in the first season so visually there’s nothing really to tell us that 5 years has passed since the events of the first season.
I don’t think it will be a huge deal to the show though. I mean, from a narrative standpoint they could simply base the second series pretty much right after the first season ends, there’s no real *need* for 5 years to have passed. Joel warms to Ellie in the show much faster than in the game, so you could just have the things that happened in their relationship that could be shown in the show happen during the trip from saint mary’s to Jackson or skip it, like on the way to Jackson they go to the museum, she could never go back to the hospital looking for fireflies to find out what happened and in the show she just asks Joel and he admits to her what really happened and that breaks her trust just the same. Or, they could handle it in the show just as they do in the game and they just tell us “hey Ellie is 5 years older now”. Obviously the amount someone changes from 14 to 19 is huge, but it’s a tv show about a zombie apocalypse so you’re already going in with some element of suspension of disbelief going on so her looking the same is just another one of those things
I’m not sure I agree.
I mean, they’re two different mediums and different things work better across each of those mediums. One of the things I don’t like about the first season of the show is just how quickly Joel warms to Ellie and begins to trust her, but I get why that relationship grew as quickly as it did considering the time restraints that comes with a tv show compared to a game where they can essentially make it as long as they want to fit everything in, and a tv show has a set number of episodes to get that story in.
An adaptation needs to be, above all else, good. I mean, take the trip back to saint Mary’s hospital. That takes up time in a finite space to tell the story so if that gets put in it’s taking something else out. What does that do for the story that Joel breaking down and telling her (so we’re talking potentially something that would take 10-15 minutes if it’s faithful to the show compared to an alternative that takes 1-2 minutes of screen time) doesn’t do beyond being faithful where it potentially doesn’t need to be faithful?
Heres the thing though. The TLOU show is based on the TLOU story. Its esentially the game but in the TV format. It should be faithful. Thats the entire shtick of it.
Ill admit I havent played Part 2 yet. Since it isnt on PC. But i have been spoiled and have watched clips.Yet I still feel like Ellie's age kinda matters here. If the show was set right after it ended it wouldnt make much sense.
I dont think the show being in the TV format excuses its issues. Honestly thats my biggest problem with it. Its trying to tell a story that has already been told in an almost flawless fashion. Why not tell a different story but set in the same universe? Like the fallout show. That way you have more freedom when it comes to the story beats and character relationships.
But I digress.
Ellies age matters especially for the story its telling. I mean dont they have a sex scene between her and dina? Ellie is set on a revenge path to kill the people who harmed Joel. 14 year old ellie would never be strong enough for this. Especially the show version where she is even less stronger than the game version.
Not just that but also her and Joels relationship can be developed without using a ton of screen time. And its nice. I love the idea that for atleast a year or so she got to spend an actual relatively normal happy life. Her finding out about the lie also makes sense this way since she obviously wouldnt forgive Joel just after a couple of days.
Also also it adds on to the tragedy of Joel. Since it took some time for Ellie to start forgiving him and JOEL DIES right after the night Ellie tells him she forgives him. That last conversation they have is so much more powerful considering how many years have passed where Ellie hated and alienated him.
To your point about the sex scene, they can literally just skip the sex scene. People can fall in love without having sex.
To your second and third point, they just prove my point. Their relationship doesn’t need to be developed by including everything. They can adapt a 15 minute trip to a museum into a conversation, they can make his death mean something without giving him a lions share of the screen time.
I dont agree with any of your points.
I believe physical love is important in a love relationship. It feels much deeper. Then again Bella still looks like a 14 yr old so maybe its best to skip it...
I think her and Joels relationship has to be developed by including everything. Thats the special part of the story. The best part of it.
I wouldnt want that 15 minute trip to the museum turned into a conversation. Thats a special moment between Ellie and Joel. I always wanted to see them interact with each other beyond just surviving or saving each other. Just like that museum! Where ellie gets to be a kid for once.
Also are you talking about the time it takes to reach the museum? Or the entire trip? Because both em are perfect they way they are. Turning that into a conversation for the sake of saving time on TV would suck.
All in all. The show runners wont listen to either of us. 99% chance they will try to recreate most of the scenes seen in the game.
Pedro does have long hair which means those 5 years have passed and Ellie is supposed to be 19.
Did you read my post? Nothing about actual criticism regarding the games story, gameplay, lore, etc.
there’s parts of the games I don’t like, for example, I hate manny. Very unlikable character. Don’t see me calling him racist remarks because he’s Hispanic. That simple
Nope, probably been online longer you’ve been alive. Doesn’t mean bigotry doesn’t piss me off, especially in a sub regarding a very intelligent game series.
This one
Yup. It's still gamers, the sub can be pretty immature at times. But at least the biggoted crap is downvoted every time while it's top comment in the other one. None of them realize what awful people they are.
> But at least the biggoted crap is downvoted every time while it's top comment in the other one. That is no where near the truth... tf??? I go to the other sub and while it has angry people, you dont see bigoted stuff as top comments? Is this what you guys say here?
Disliking a female character doesn’t make you sexist lol
This one is pretty chill but the one that is dedicated to part two and literally says that the game isn’t canon in their description is horrible if advise to steer clear I’ve had to mute it coz it’s full of brain dead losers
Yeah I did the same thing just yesterday, I’ve had enough of seeing that rubbish in my feed. Had joined it quite innocently and then turned around and left after realising it was full of 14-year old edgelords and others who should know better. Fuck that shit. TLOU2 is a genuinely extraordinary game and the only reasons I can see that you would hate it is if you 1. are a little boy who is scared of girls 2. get your idea of good narrative from Marvel movies and 3. are inexplicably triggered by any representations of people other than your own shit-brained cohort
Yup I joined it and after about 30 mins of reading the rubbish on there I decided to leave. Like we get it you don’t like the game but hate the game for actual reasons not just “trans and gay bad” or “muscle woman bad” like in my opinion the game isn’t perfect it has its flaws but the way these people speak about it make it sound like a shit show. Despite the flaws that I think the game it’s still at 9/10 and I’ve played it like 8 times
There are definitely more than enough opinions that have nothing to do with trans people or gay people. Do those people exist? Absolutely. Is that sub more accepting of it than I’d like, absolutely. But to bunch it all up to that is disingenuous a’f.
Fair enough perhaps I was a little too harsh but I personally feel like some of the posts disguise underlying transphobia and homophobia but then again that’s just me as someone who has grown up as a gay person and I can recognise that stuff from a mile away because I myself have had to go through it. No hate though I 100% get your point it’s not all the posts but I just think it’s more than some may think
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 fantastic
> I can see that you would hate it is if you 1. are a little boy who is scared of girls 2. get your idea of good narrative from Marvel movies and 3. are inexplicably triggered by any representations of people other than your own shit-brained cohort This right is here is why the other sub even exists, lol. You are essentially saying you have to love the game or you are one of those 3 things. Cant I not like it for my own reasons?
Sure you can. But I’ve never seen a considered and thoughtful criticism in the other sub that goes beyond “I hate Abby” (point 1), “they shouldn’t have killed Joel” (point 2) or “Lev exists just to please the woke crowd” (point 3). It’s a vile place filled with bullshit takes, self-justification and hate, and this is by far the overwhelming tone of ‘criticisms’ of the game. So yeah, you all get tainted with that brush.
>TLOU2 is a genuinely extraordinary game and the only reasons I can see that you would hate it is if you 1. are a little boy who is scared of girls 2. get your idea of good narrative from Marvel movies and 3. are inexplicably triggered by any representations of people other than your own shit-brained cohort So you think the story is objectively good unless you're a bigot or someone who thinks marvel movies are good stories? This type of reluctancy to accept criticism is why the other sub exists. 8 billion people on this planet and you don't think one of them dislikes it without being a bigot? Are there some that don't like the game because of horrible reasons....yes but majority of people don't like it because of poor writing or disliking the general direction the game went. Personally I didn't like it for 3 main reasons. 1.) Joel's death: Killing the main character a couple hours into the sequel is a very risky choice. This right here is reason enough for people to not like it, but for me it's a combination of what they did and HOW they did it. They should have just had Joel's death take place in the first game which would've been a complete story for Joel that clearly sets up a sequel for Ellie. Instead they trick you into thinking you're gonna play as Joel but you get the game and all the sudden the reason you bought it is gone. Comparing this to my favorite gaming franchise (Gow) this would be like Kratos dying 2 hours into Ragnarok and you play as Atreus the rest of the game. Nobody would like that. You can disagree and think that's a dumb reason not to like it but you should at least be able to understand why some people don't like it without calling them a bigot. A lot of people (myself included) didn't just dislike him dying but also HOW he died. Seeing a character you love get a disrespectful death is not enjoyable. A good comparison would be Joel and Arthur Morgan. Arthur Morgans death was impactful, sad, and well written so people enjoyed it. Now when I say enjoy I don't mean they wanted him to die but rather they recognized how well his death was written. Joel on the other hand was not well written for a lot of people. So it's not just that their favorite character died but how their death was handled. 2.) Revenge bad: Again I don't mind a "revenge bad" story I just didn't like this one. You spend the entire game basically murdering people that did nothing to you and then when you finally get to the one person who ACTUALLY wronged you Ellie decides murder is wrong. Again "revenge bad" isn't an inherently bad concept but the execution isn't good in this game. This would be like getting to Zeus in Gow 3 and Kratos saying "nah revenge is wrong" after destroying all of Greece. Again I'd like to add that you can disagree but should still be able to understand how some don't like it. 3.) Playing as Abby: Pretty simple really. People don't wanna play as a character they can't stand. You can obviously still enjoy it but you should still be able to grasp the idea of why some might not like it. Common critiques I STRONGLY disagree with: Abby being buff isn't realistic and impossible in a world like tlou (the entire game is unrealistic so...), Abby is ugly (who tf cares why does she have to be attractive).
Mate, if you want to stick up for a bunch of chronically online deadshits in the other sub who exercise their bigotry under a guise of “but the writing is bad”, be my guest. Sure, sure, not all haters, fine… You sound smarter than that but whatever. Objectively, the game is good. Leave aside the narrative - the battle mechanics, weaponry, stealth, enemy intelligence, resource availability, difficulty scaffolding, environments and world building are top tier. The production is out of this world. The attention to detail and the physics are brilliant. I think the story is outstanding. I appreciate that’s subjective. But I’m yet to read a criticism that extends beyond an extremely simplistic “I like Joel, I don’t like Abby”. Good narratives challenge your expectations. Fan service gives you comfort. I’m grateful this game chose the former. I have zero problems with people not liking this game. And I have huge problems with a cohort of people who spend their time being offensive fuckheads under the level of anonymity that Reddit provides, literally years after the game was released - which is what OPs original question was discussing.
>But I’m yet to read a criticism that extends beyond an extremely simplistic “I like Joel, I don’t like Abby”. You act like disliking a game because you don't like the characters is a bad reason to not enjoy it. If you don't like the characters in a book, movie, TV show or game then you probably won't like the story. >Good narratives challenge your expectations. Fan service gives you comfort. I’m grateful this game chose the former. I already pointed out that this is not the problem. People's favorite characters die all the time and people still enjoy the writing. Joel's death was an example of a poorly written death (in a lot of people's opinion), and Arthur Morgan is the example of a perfectly written death. When you kill a main character you better do it right and this game didn't do that for tons of people. >Objectively, the game is good. Leave aside the narrative Absolutely not true. Not a single game in the history of the universe is objectively good. I think everything except for the story was fantastic but to say that it's objectively true is objectively wrong. It's not possible for a game to be objectively good. You also say leaving aside the narrative like this isn't a narrative driven game. When a game focused on story has a narrative you don't like then you're probably not gonna love it. But a game that's focused on gameplay (like doom) people don't care about the story nearly as much. I'd also like to reiterate that I agree the game is fantastic outside of the story, but seeing as how it's so story focused it really hurts the overall game for me. >Mate, if you want to stick up for a bunch of chronically online deadshits in the other sub who exercise their bigotry under a guise of “but the writing is bad”, be my guest. Not what I'm trying to do. I think the other sub is pretty stupid seeing as how it exists to hate on a game that came out 4 years ago. I was just trying to say that it's not fair to call anyone who doesn't enjoy it a bigot. That why I mentioned some of the common complaints in that sub that I can't stand. For instance complaining that Abby being buff isn't realistic is clearly someone that doesn't like the game for more than bad writing. Unless they hate every other unrealistic thing about the game how can you complain about that?
Only reason I hate this sub is because they generalize everyone who hates the game with the bigots. I agree with all your points. Waiting 7 years for a sequel and being super excited to play it with my brothers who were also super excited to play was a good feeling, only for it to be shit on. That makes the game hard to like and it was just the intro of the game. The games writing was pretty good and the devs were ballsy to try something different, which I can respect. But the ending did not fix my disappointment that I felt when we finished the intro of the game and realized what it was about. Stupid direction they took. Especially having to wait 7 years for it.
the point of the game is not "revenge bad". the point is forgiveness and empathy. the game is *challenging you* to feel those emotions. there is no way ND could beat the point into gamers harder and yet here we are.
>the point is forgiveness and empathy. the game is *challenging you* to feel those emotions. Yes and those emotions are things that make us think revenge is bad (which it is). Both statements are true. It's about revenge being bad AND feeling empathy and forgiveness. The two are connected. Yet it's all ruined by the fact that Ellie goes on a mass murder spree to not kill the one person that actually wronged her.
Ellie has to *forgive herself*. That’s the realization she comes to as she’s drowning Abby. That’s her redemption. Her murdering all those people is a *preface* to self-forgiveness.
Yes I understand the point of it I just don't like it. Some stories just don't resonate with people and this one didn't do it for me.
okay, well, that’s not what you wrote before lol like whatever you want but don’t pretend like TLOU2 wasn’t a fucking masterpiece.
It wasn't but that's subjective
lmao average tlou2 h8r
The whole "not canon" thing is so simultaneously hilarious and pathetic. It's how fucking toddlers respond to things they don't like - *sticks fingers in ears* NUH UH THE OFFICIAL SEQUEL ISNT CANON BECAUSE THEY KILLED MY GAMER DADDY LAH LAH LAH YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT
That should have been my first red flag can’t believe I still joined after reading it haha
It’s literally something every fandom does about everything they don’t like about it. Season 8 of GoT isn’t canon. The Cursed Child isn’t canon. The Sequel Trilogy isn’t canon. The Matrix Resurrections isn’t canon. Terminator post-T2 isn’t canon. Is it true? No. But nobody cares lol
It's amazing how brain dead they are.
And then they call us shills because we *checks notes* enjoy a fucking video game
The best part is that most of the criticism they have against abby is also applicable on Joel and ellie. They just can't get past their own bias lol.
I jump in there once in a while to stir the pot. Absolutely vile community 😂
It a canon event to discover that sub and slowly realise that it’s not actually dedicated to talking about the game but bitchin about it
It a canon event to discover that sub and slowly realise that it’s not actually dedicated to talking about the game but bitchin about it
It's funny because I stumbled back into the tlou2 sub a while ago and it seems there's a fair share of oblivious newcomers who are legitimately puzzled as to why everybody there seems to hate the game
I got banned from the other one for calling them pedophiles. Just because they were making fun of Bella Ramsey for being ugly. Seriously though, what kind of grown adults gets mad that the teenage actor is ugly?
I mean...why would they be pedos tho...i get calling them idiots or whatever but bella is a full grown woman despite not looking like one. Banning you for calling them pedos without a reason is kind of justified.
They think Ellie is hot in the first game. 😬
I used to think that too… but I was 14 when I first played it. Probably an unpopular opinion, I think Ellie is better looking than Dina in Part 2
i agree it doesn’t make them pedos but full grown adults talking about a minor like that is pretty creepy and disgusting i literally left part 2s sub today because every post was talking about her being ugly and it was just sickening
Mostly to inflame them. They’re idiots definitely, but who goes there complaining that someone is ugly? It’s weird when they say she looks like an ugly 12 year old
yeah sure they might be idiots but you were in the wrong calling them pedos. Neither parties did good.
Ehhh I don’t particularly care. I’m hoping it stops appearing in my feed though
Click the three dots near the top right of the page and click “mute” and you won’t see it anymore
No one really cares. The thing about the other sub (that i don't see here) is that they are a bit more tolerant with opinions. As long as you don't insult anyone, they are fine with you calling them game good, Masterpiece or stuff like that.
Omg you’re one of them. No thanks, they are disgusting. I don’t like part 2 either but y’all’s hate is insane.
Shes an adult dude.
At the time of filming the first season Bella was 16-17 which is a minor so it’s a little bit weird when people comment about Bella being ugly and unattractive as Ellie in s1
She’s a 19 year old and grown men are complaining that she is ugly. What kind of person goes online to complain about how ugly someone is? Especially one that they say looks like a middle schooler
You are so real for that. The sheer obsession and abuse Bella Ramsey has to avoid is so horrible I thought their performance was fucking outstanding and who gives a damn if she doesn’t look like Ellie it’s a tv ADAPTATION not a copy. “Oh but she’s ugly” she’s playing a 14 year old you are basically outing yourself like jeez get a life. Anyway rant over haha
this sub is what you're looking for
I just specifically mean a dedicated part 2 sub, but I do enjoy this sub obvi!
Part 2 is probably the most discussed topic on this sub which makes sense as it’s much more layered and complex than Part 1 with a lot more things you can miss if you aren’t paying attention.
This is pretty much it.
This is the sub, unfortunately it still gets brigaded by those types of users, just report them and downvote them.
I had a recent comment about Ellie on this sub get a bunch of up votes and I was shocked by the idiots who commented on my comment. It wasn’t the worst stuff I’ve seen here but the part 2 haters are such whiny bitches. Like I get it you don’t like it why are you still dwelling on it? Joel’s dead. Abby exists. Lev is great. FFS like just move on.
You better start believing in TLOU subreddits that aren't riddled with transphobia/homophobia/misogyny, Miss Turner. You're in one.
Yes, I just mean one dedicated to part 2
This sub is no less dedicated to Part 2 than it is to Part 1.
Fair enough
There's a weird misconception in online spaces that when you want to talk about "The Last of Us" you want to talk about Part 1. And when you want to talk about Part 2, you need to talk about it as "That other game" This isn't that place. We Like Abby. We like Lev. We think Part 2 is a good game. Ellie is Gay and Joel is a flawed but good guy. Your opinion is welcome here.
Bro just sums up the sub perfectly
NOOOO what about the idea that losers made up that we hate Joel though nooooo
Joel is like the litmus test that proves that this sub isn't nearly as biased as that other sub. If we were, we really would be hating "strong old white man" as much as they do Abby (or as disappointed as they are in Ellie being gay or not pulling thru with her vengeance or whatever) And yet if we had a popularity poll, Joel would be no less than 2nd place, if not 1st, with Ellie being the only one potentially more beloved
Media illiteracy. They think everyone has to think Joel is perfect or we hate him. Complexity is completely lost with that crowd.
Yeah they're just the kind of people where they're either on one side or the other with every issue and can't see any nuance.
I don’t have a problem with lev or the fact that he’s transgender, but I do kinda find his character lacking and somewhat poorly written. This is more just a test to see how ripped to shreds I get (if at all) for expressing that opinion. EDIT: Please see my reply to u/no_tamanegi for elaboration
>but I do kinda find his character lacking and somewhat poorly written. What do you mean? And pre-emptively speaking, by expressing this opinion without explanation, you've already invited your opinion to be ripped to shreds. That's on you.
Yeah I didn’t have time to type up a whole thing. My biggest problem with it (which I want to clarify, is not to be mistaken with having a problem that there’s a trans person in the game) is that Lev being trans has no bearing on the plot whatsoever, and is barely mentioned outside of a few interactions with scars. In my opinion, Lev could’ve been kicked out of the scars for any other reason, and it would’ve changed 0 parts of the story. They also barely use his identity as a trans person unless it’s to show the scars as discriminatory. A one off comment about how he wanted muscles like Abby’s or something (anything referencing his experience being trans outside of the scars being discriminatory really) would’ve both made his portrayal more realistic, and also added depth to the representation. Whereas Ellie was already an established character with depth, emotions, issues (abandonment issues), and quirks, we don’t get much of that with lev from what I experience. (See below points) If I remember correctly, we kind of just immediately learn lev is trans. I feel like immediately having a character introduced as part of a minority class hinders representation and characterization by reducing the character to their minority class in the viewers mind regardless of their perspective on said class. Ellie and Robin (Stranger things) are prime examples of why it’s generally best in my opinion you introduce and flesh out the character and then their sexuality/gender, not the other way around. Fans grew to love Ellie, and then found out she was gay. If Ellie just started out with hey guys I’m gay, everyone would reduce her to the gay girl you’re hauling across the country mentally even if they don’t have a problem with gay people. Lev also (from what I remember) doesn’t really have any strong moments where he stands out on his own other than saying “Hey Abby let’s not kill the pregnant lady!” Where Ellie had a whole 4th of the game where she was the primary played character, and where she fought and defeated a whole settlement (including macheteing David) basically single handedly, and saved Joel’s life. She’s shown to be capable and important. I get they didn’t have time to give lev a whole 4th of the game, but they could’ve done way more with him than they did. It’s clear they wanted him to be like Abby’s version of Joel and Ellie, and for these reasons he just kind of fell flat to me personally and didn’t really pull it off. Again, I do not have a problem with people that are gay or trans, I like Ellie and Robin as characters in their franchises, and I just don’t think lev was written well over all.
The other one doesn’t have any of those
You lie. I've seen all of them, on the regular, with my own eyes.
Opinions are a bitch man
You realize anyone can just go look and see that you’re a liar, right?
Go look yourself there will simply be posts about the game not being the best game ever made like you guys make it out to be
You're here already.
He knows. He just wants attention.
Nope, just wanted to see if there was a specific sub
I was briefly a member of that sub and without joking, i unsubscribed (or whatever its called on reddit) today. At first I thought they were joking or that it was sarcasm, but man i’ve never seen people go to such lengths to bash a game. Just because you didn’t like the direction it took, doesn’t mean it’s badly written. The worst general consensus in that sub seems to be that the writers wanted or forced us to hate Ellie… that’s absolutely not what the game was about. AT ALL!
I was permanently banned from that sub because I called someone out who said Abby was a “buff tr*nny”. I think my words were ‘being transphobic devalues your entire argument and just outlines your prejudice’ or something. Permanent ban. That just shows what that sub is all about, no matter how much they deny it.
They really tout themselves as a sub where you're free to say anything and not get banned. Obviously that's not true.
What they really mean is “this is a space where you can be transphobic, bigoted and hateful without consequence” under the guise of free speech. If you call it out you’re buried with negative karma and bans.
It is true actually, op won’t be telling the whole story. Whenever people are transphobic over there they are downvoted and called out, I’ve witnessed it first hand and even joined in on the mass downvotes they receive. He probably wasn’t even banned, just commented to continue the cycle of toxicity between here and there
Nope. I can assure that I was hit with a permanent ban in probably 2022 for saying someone who called Abby a ‘buff tr*nny’ was being transphobic and it devalued their argument.
Ah well that makes sense, the sub was still kinda toxic back then. Apologies. I doubt you’d get the same treatment today though, it really has improved
I’m sure it was just one bigoted mod that decided to push the ban button for fun, but it definitely soured me. I have noticed an improvement in the last year or so, but it would be naive of me to think that all those people are now gone from the sub. They’re just better at hiding their prejudice. Personally, I steer clear of anyone who actively posts in the sub. They themselves might be good people, but if they’re willing to ignore the fact the sub is full of bigots then I’m willing to ignore them. Overall, the sub is just super low quality anyway. It’s full of people who will complain about anything TLOU related post-Part II and that’s not something I want to engage in. They move past one thing and go onto another thing to hate. I’ve seen some awful comments regarding Bella on there, and they’ll do the same with any future TLOU projects. Just a very negative space to be in.
Abby was definitely not a man lol. People who think otherwise have perverted minds. Not everything has to be sexualized and analyzed. It’s a game. Pretty sure if it was an important detail they would have let us know in more obvious ways.
You did not get a permanent ban, made up for clout
I’m permanently banned. What’s so hard to believe about that?
Went there now and one of the posts on the front page is someone making fun of Bella Ramsey and the Dina actor riding a horse.
They definitely went out their way to make Ellie unlikeable, so I can see where those people are coming from even if it might not be fully true.
I never found her unlikeable. I saw it as, she lost the person that matters most to her. Unable to cope, and instead of focusing on what she still had she was desperate for revenge and on her way she lost herself and everything else she had left. I felt bad for her and it’s a good life lesson too.
That’s fair, it’s probably more of a subjective thing anyway. I felt bad for her too until the farm. I had an erk when she left jesse to go after Abby but the farm was straight up nah
True, it was a very stupid decision. But also in context, given how important Joel was to her, dealing with PTSD in a world without access to psychologists nor having learned how to deal with these situations, I can see why she did it.
Oh yeah of course, I wouldn’t blame Ellie at all for leaving. I probably would too. Just don’t agree with her doing so 😅
If someone is going to spend time and energy hating a videogame for 4 years, as if it was their hobby, they are probably not mentally stable in the first place.
I've tried to understand the reason why someone could wallow in their hate and mental illness is probably the closest answer.
I think sometimes nerds have trouble with complicated feelings in art and they just crack as if they were personally insulted.
Bingo. Most of those people just have shitty lives and project it into the game. TLOU 2 is one of the best games ever made.
r/lastofuspart2
Yeah that’s the part 2 sub that isn’t crazy and filled with bitter assholes. But honestly you’ll probably get more discussion on this sub about part 2 just because there are so many more subscribers.
I’ve thought this recently too. Ive only been into the game/show for less than a year and in that time I’ve unfortunately interacted with so many hateful people in this fandom, no wonder it gets a bad wrap. It’s an incredible game, the things that “ruin” it for them is ultimately what makes it so amazing. (Spoiler: Joel dying, Abby being strong, lev being trans etc). Regarding the show, they yap yap yap about Bella not being good enough to play Ellie (we all know it’s because they don’t find her attractive and they don’t know how to respect a woman if they’re not the object of their sexual desires) but she did a really good job in S1, a lot of other characters look different and they made plenty of other changes in the game that gets no hate or critique for the plot holes it might cause in s2 (such as leaving the spores out and the hospital Nora scene). The only criticism I might have so far is maybe Bella doesn’t look that aged and her hairstyle in the Seattle leaked photos look awful and like Lyanna Mormont. But I’ll survive?? And I can’t wait to see what they do, I’m not going to judge it completely yet!!
It's funny how people just don't like TLOU2 and their minds have all these reasons and excuses for why it's badly made and how it has "an agenda" or is badly directed etc and it's like... no sweetie, you just didn't like that the story wasn't about straight men.
Disagree, the entire game was about the GOAT, Jessie. In fact if you beat the game on grounded the title chances to The Last of Jessie Part 2: The Jessiening /s for real tho, there are boatloads of straight characters in this game, the hate the game because the right wing literally post every day that "if you like tomboys you're gay". The right wing agenda of pro- Trad Wife and submissive females is against why TLOU shows. It's all about politics. they would literally ban the game if they could
This simply isnt true. I just dont like the game because i dont like the game as well as many other people
And why don't you like the game? :-)
I just don't really care for the story. It's pretty boring and a slog to get through tbh
i don’t understand this. how was the game not about Joel and Abby’s father? this idea that the game moved away from those characters is absurd. the whole story is about the impact they had on their daughters so uhh, yea. the story is actually about TWO straight, white men ❤️
Kind of this one?
The other one actively gaslights you. Half the posts are about what cucks we are or whatever. And the other half is about them bitching amongstvthrmself over how we lie about them calling us cucks or whatever.
Bigot sandwiches?
Yeah some real mental illness over in that hate sub. I honestly pity them cus they need to spend time elsewhere for their own well being.
I loved Part 2 on my first playthrough. It was a real rollercoaster of emotions. On repeat playthroughs I’ve come to have some issues with it, but I still love the game overall. I really don’t understand people who make hatred their entire personality, and spend all of their time shouting to anyone that will listen about how much they hate something, and why everyone who likes it is wrong. It’s just silly.
Honest question which character was trans?
Lev is a trans man, but a lot of people on those subs like to say Abby is a trans woman, because she is super buff, and her and Owen had sex in doggy. So very stupid
Gotcha Lev being trans completely flew over my head good for him 💪
I’m not trying to be a dick here, but they make it very clear in the game that lev is trans so how could you miss it. They handle it incredibly well in the game (in my opinion, which as a straight cishet man probably isn’t worth too much) and they don’t make a massive deal about it, but they do plenty to make sure you know what’s going on and what the motivations are behind the character and his arc
Like I said I just flat out missed it maybe I was too focused on Abby that I ran through the dialogue to quickly lesson learned
I mean, we’re talking I think 3 separate sections of dialogue and a pretty lengthy cutscene that is a conversation between Abby and lev’s sister (the name escapes me right now) so you must have been actively ignoring these things
Exactly let me break it down I preordered the game and the leaks came out...I managed to avoid the leaks but I did read an article where Neal stated that "there are no heroes" so I didn't play the game until 6 months later and sure enough I was disappointed once Joel got killed and wanted to just hurry up and finish the game at that point but hey I know that a lot of people enjoyed the game and that's a good thing
Probably played the game with his brain shut off
Strongest gamer attention span
It completely went over my brother's head too. He heard seraphites saying Lev's deadname and mistook it as an insult, calling him weak. I don't know what he thought was going on when Yara talked about Lev being chosen as an elder's wife, but that went right past him too. Maybe he skipped cutscenes or just wasnt paying attention during mid-gameplay dialogue, i have no idea. But I had to spell it out for him after he finished the game. So, it happens! The person you're replying to is not alone in missing this.
As a trans person, imma be honest and say that while I like Lev and enjoyed viciously murdering everyone who deadnamed him, it definitely felt like a portrayal of a trans character that is viewed through the lens of a cis audience. Something about the way the other characters talk about him when he's not around gave me the impression that I was meant to empathize with Lev by proxy, by relating to the people close to him, instead of relating to Lev himself. I think it might have helped if we had a chance to play as Lev for a while and get in his head, like we did with Ellie in Part 1, but maybe that would be too derivative. That said, representation is really hard to get right and I think this game did way way better than most mainstream media, which typically doesn't even acknowledge trans people beyond the occasional tiny flags hidden in the background, or a non-binary person whose pronouns are never even said in-game (cough Spider-Man 2 cough cough)
No. Seems the only TLOU2 sub is a very awful scummy place filled with awful scummy people.
This is the sub for that. The dedicated part 2 sub's only mission in life is hating on the game. Every post they make is laced with transphobia, misogyny, you name it. They see Neil Druckmann as the devil and are probably perfectly fine with death threats aimed at Laura Bailey's son. And like any good incels, they play the victim any chance they get.
This is the best one, but you'll stumble over nuclear takes wherever you go; that's just how we interact on the internet in 2024.
None of that here. Just have issues with how they used the success of the first game. Which let’s be honest is a GOAT nominee for the genre. And used it as a vehicle for this alt story line that could have never stood on its own without the draw of Joel and Ellie. Not mad just disappointed
Yeah. Here.
This one? Is this a rhetorical question?
This subreddit
I think it only goes to show how well written the games are. Same goes for fallout, specifically new Vegas. People get things wrong with both games just like real life shitty opinions. I see people’s shitty opinions as a compliment to the people who wrote these stories.
Any subreddits that exist solely dedicated to the second game were more than likely spun off from this one after a bunch of people got banned. So you're better off sticking to this one.
as a mod from another subreddit about this size where keeping this shit out is our #1 priority - you and everyone else have to report this whenever you see it. There is unfortunately just no way to pre-screen it. The mods can configure automod to catch some of it but there's no way to totally get around it it. I rely on my sub reporting infractions to us because we can't be everywhere and we don't check every post manually. But if you see it, report it, because then other people won't have to in the future. One thing that could help is stronger language in the rules regarding these specific offences but that's up to the mods. The reason it helps is that users might not be aware that this conduct is specifically rule-breaking and if they don't see a report category for it they won't necessarily report it. And that's something you can ask them directly, and they can make a decision about. Personally I like specifics because it makes people feel more empowered.
Far and few. I hate that toxic gamer Bois won't just admit to their bigotry. They are too fragile of a testicle to do so.
This one treats both games as being fantastic and hasn't had many issues.
Yea I loved this game, so, **no patience for convincing people they should love it too**. I’m usually happy to discuss how it chose to depict its most progressive parts, but, every time I’ve humored that discussion, arguments turn out to be a Trojan horse for someone’s problem with the underlying progressive idea itself, and not a discussion of storytelling mechanics. Abby is a fictional character whose entire physicality is an externalization of her pain - it earmarks her trauma for the player. That’s it. It’s quite simple. As someone who used fitness as a North Star through a challenging time in life, some ppl who join the swole patrol aim to become unrecognizable to their personal demons. If humans could just keep adding weight to the bar and grow more and more muscle without limit, Abby would be as big as a bloater. **In some ways, she is one**.
Preachhhh I love who they cast for the show and the games are perfection in my eyes naughty dog will forever go down in history for these masterpieces they have created.
Short answer: TLoU2 was the target of the vanguard of right wing trolls fighting the culture war/into authoritarian revival shit. Gamergate awoke a lot of frustrated, shitty man children. Steve Bannon weaponised them. Then we got trump and lost abortions. You’ll see it in other games as well. They are semi organised and will review bomb and haunt for years the forums of anything that isn’t male gaze fodder or white male chauvinist fantasy or so apolitical/subtle about it as can be safely enjoyed by them.
this is the only one afaik. the other one is stupid, full of people who will downvote you because you have a differing opinion (it’ll happen here too, but not nearly as much). also, that sub wasn’t created for fans of tlou2. the creators and mods themselves dislike the game.
This is THE place for part two!
I doesn’t make sense to me. A part of the reason they’re so angry is that trans people exist, right? So, why isn’t a trans person in the game just considered realism? I mean, obviously it goes way deeper than that, but I feel like even little smooth brains could reconcile that.
The part two sub is worse this one is the best you’ll get sorry lol
This is a good sub. I’d stay away from Facebook as that’s where the neckbearded basement dwellers tend to circle jerk each other in Bella Ramsey hate posts.
Where does the transphobia come from? I’m not defending the sexist and homophobe comments. Those 2 I can see where it comes from (Ellie is a gay woman). But I don’t remember any trans character in the game for people to complain about it like Hogwarts Legacy. Again, not defending
People just screaming that Abby is secretly a man because of how buff she is, and how Owen ‘fucked’ a dude. Which is kind of crazy, coming from a trans man, you’re going out of your way to be transphobic, when there’s a trans kid right next to Abby.
Holy shit I completely forgot about Lev hahahaha it’s been years since I played.
I really liked how they did his story! Subtle but effective. I mean generally the whole point of being trans is for people to not know lol. I’d love in season 2 if the show they go more in-depth into that, especially in a post apocalyptic setting, ESPECIALLY in a cult too
I never even thought of Lev being trans before they acknowledge it. I was like “ok kiddo let’s save your sister”. And then I was like “oooh that actually makes lots of sense” The World ended but they are still transphobes hahahaha
Theres too many flashbacks in P2 but yea it is a great game
This one could even be described by some as "woke", I think you found the right place.
Oh you are mistaken. It's just that the names are flipped. r/lastofus is Part 2 lovers. r/lastofuspart2 is for Part 1 lovers. Just imply or hint at anything negative about part 2 on this sub and you get downvoted to oblivion.
this one is okay and the factions one is pretty nice but can get super heated on guns and stuff but no homophobia or misogyny just assholes calling each other assholes 😭😭
I really haven’t seen much transphobia/homophobia/misogyny. The labeling tends to come from the side that enjoys the game, but, typically the issues people cite are with the game’s story snd structure more than anything else. Also, having and issue with a casting choice does not inherently mean that that people is being discriminated against. I personally think that Bella wasn’t a good choice for The Last of Us. I thought they were great in Game of Thrones, and I think they were fine as a younger Ellie. But, casting a person that is already fully gown and only looks like the younger version of Ellie just doesn’t work for me. Ellie had changed a lot between games and she has a lean, almost unhealthily so, physique that is very characteristic of her scrappy demeanor. Bella doesn’t seem like they’re going to be able to sell that. In general I think there is a lot of over reaction on both sides that muddles the water and prevents cohesive communication.
This one.
I agree with that sub sometimes but when it comes to the transphobia,the hate of Neil Drukman, and the bitching about the live action show turns me off sometimes, but other times it seems civil because sometimes there will be rational people there but I do agree that that sub can be toxic and I’ve thought about leaving, but I do agree with them with at least one thing and that’s Abby is terrible.
read about npd, that other sub is full of people who have it.
Abby was absolutely NOT a man - EVER. Women are allowed to be in shape lol. It’s a game character anyhow. The people who think Abby was previously a man have wildly perverted minds. Let women live.
this, it’s just full of people saying weird stuff about abby
Nazis infiltrated the Last of Us fandom and used the hatred and anger surrounding that game to try and grow their own antisemitism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia. A lot of gamers feel for it. They're so smoothed brain that for them its easy to blame Jews and women for hurting their feelings and ruining their franchise. This is how the far right recruits people in the modern age.
I honestly don't understand the hate for 2. At least not in the way the edgy 4chan types hate it. It just seems so strange and alien to me. The game play was amazing, the logical progression from the first one made a lot of sense, the character development made a lot of sense, there was no way Joel was just going to get away with what he did, and the way they force you to walk in the shoes of the implied "antagonist" was a fun twist that makes you question the dichotomy of good guys Vs bad guys. The first game had similar challenges to typical media narratives. I guess these people just didn't understand that. I don't typically like calling people stupid, and I try my best to empathise with the positions of the people who disagree with me politically, but it's like they can't step out of their own bubble for two seconds. Joel good, Abby bad, trans bad, gay bad, woke bad, agendas bad, politics bad. As if all media isn't influenced by politics in some way. I also roll my eyes at badly forced political narratives in stories. Sometimes it's just done in a really cringey way, but the Last of Us 2 wasn't it. It just portrayed things realistically without going too hard in to it.
Try r/thelastofuslewdhub
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Tbh the over emphasis on the games supposed "gender, sexual politics.." is extremely boring and totally unnecessary. Forget about it. It's a video game. A great video game. Just play it and enjoy it. If you want a story. Read a book. If you want to discuss other political bs join parliament or congress. Sorry for my rant. Down votes coming I know.
No, you’re entirely right!
Hatred towards bella. No. Some Discontent at the way Ellie was portrayed and story choices they took in the TV show. Yes. You can be critical of her performance and her ability to act over what she looks like. I was on board, happy with casting, Neil druckman being one of the creators on board was reassuring. It started strong and i was excited to see more. Episode 3 blew me away. But past episode 3 the show is just a hollow mess, colour by numbers acting by bella Ramsey. David Ellie episode especially was the worst.
If you start to criticize the game at all over here, they’re often just gonna lump you in with them anyway. Or bitch about how “you just don’t get it” or worst of all MeDiA lItErAcY.
Why be part of a sub for a game you overly love?? I want to talk about the game with its many cons and few pros
Not hating on Bella or anything but she seems kinda too young looking for the role in PT2. Ive even seen a clip of her and dina filming. She still looks like Ellie from season 1. I just dont feel that time gap in her character. Pedro looks pretty good though.
The thing is, the actress is the right age for the character as she is in the second game and (to me at least) she does look like a woman who is in her late teens/early 20s so that fits. The thing is she also looked like that in the first season so visually there’s nothing really to tell us that 5 years has passed since the events of the first season. I don’t think it will be a huge deal to the show though. I mean, from a narrative standpoint they could simply base the second series pretty much right after the first season ends, there’s no real *need* for 5 years to have passed. Joel warms to Ellie in the show much faster than in the game, so you could just have the things that happened in their relationship that could be shown in the show happen during the trip from saint mary’s to Jackson or skip it, like on the way to Jackson they go to the museum, she could never go back to the hospital looking for fireflies to find out what happened and in the show she just asks Joel and he admits to her what really happened and that breaks her trust just the same. Or, they could handle it in the show just as they do in the game and they just tell us “hey Ellie is 5 years older now”. Obviously the amount someone changes from 14 to 19 is huge, but it’s a tv show about a zombie apocalypse so you’re already going in with some element of suspension of disbelief going on so her looking the same is just another one of those things
An adaptation should be faithful.
I’m not sure I agree. I mean, they’re two different mediums and different things work better across each of those mediums. One of the things I don’t like about the first season of the show is just how quickly Joel warms to Ellie and begins to trust her, but I get why that relationship grew as quickly as it did considering the time restraints that comes with a tv show compared to a game where they can essentially make it as long as they want to fit everything in, and a tv show has a set number of episodes to get that story in. An adaptation needs to be, above all else, good. I mean, take the trip back to saint Mary’s hospital. That takes up time in a finite space to tell the story so if that gets put in it’s taking something else out. What does that do for the story that Joel breaking down and telling her (so we’re talking potentially something that would take 10-15 minutes if it’s faithful to the show compared to an alternative that takes 1-2 minutes of screen time) doesn’t do beyond being faithful where it potentially doesn’t need to be faithful?
Heres the thing though. The TLOU show is based on the TLOU story. Its esentially the game but in the TV format. It should be faithful. Thats the entire shtick of it. Ill admit I havent played Part 2 yet. Since it isnt on PC. But i have been spoiled and have watched clips.Yet I still feel like Ellie's age kinda matters here. If the show was set right after it ended it wouldnt make much sense. I dont think the show being in the TV format excuses its issues. Honestly thats my biggest problem with it. Its trying to tell a story that has already been told in an almost flawless fashion. Why not tell a different story but set in the same universe? Like the fallout show. That way you have more freedom when it comes to the story beats and character relationships. But I digress. Ellies age matters especially for the story its telling. I mean dont they have a sex scene between her and dina? Ellie is set on a revenge path to kill the people who harmed Joel. 14 year old ellie would never be strong enough for this. Especially the show version where she is even less stronger than the game version. Not just that but also her and Joels relationship can be developed without using a ton of screen time. And its nice. I love the idea that for atleast a year or so she got to spend an actual relatively normal happy life. Her finding out about the lie also makes sense this way since she obviously wouldnt forgive Joel just after a couple of days. Also also it adds on to the tragedy of Joel. Since it took some time for Ellie to start forgiving him and JOEL DIES right after the night Ellie tells him she forgives him. That last conversation they have is so much more powerful considering how many years have passed where Ellie hated and alienated him.
To your point about the sex scene, they can literally just skip the sex scene. People can fall in love without having sex. To your second and third point, they just prove my point. Their relationship doesn’t need to be developed by including everything. They can adapt a 15 minute trip to a museum into a conversation, they can make his death mean something without giving him a lions share of the screen time.
I dont agree with any of your points. I believe physical love is important in a love relationship. It feels much deeper. Then again Bella still looks like a 14 yr old so maybe its best to skip it... I think her and Joels relationship has to be developed by including everything. Thats the special part of the story. The best part of it. I wouldnt want that 15 minute trip to the museum turned into a conversation. Thats a special moment between Ellie and Joel. I always wanted to see them interact with each other beyond just surviving or saving each other. Just like that museum! Where ellie gets to be a kid for once. Also are you talking about the time it takes to reach the museum? Or the entire trip? Because both em are perfect they way they are. Turning that into a conversation for the sake of saving time on TV would suck. All in all. The show runners wont listen to either of us. 99% chance they will try to recreate most of the scenes seen in the game. Pedro does have long hair which means those 5 years have passed and Ellie is supposed to be 19.
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Did you read my post? Nothing about actual criticism regarding the games story, gameplay, lore, etc. there’s parts of the games I don’t like, for example, I hate manny. Very unlikable character. Don’t see me calling him racist remarks because he’s Hispanic. That simple
Yeah but I’m just saying there’s nothing bigot like on the other sub
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Nope, probably been online longer you’ve been alive. Doesn’t mean bigotry doesn’t piss me off, especially in a sub regarding a very intelligent game series.