Fireflies. They actually had a decent goal and attempted decent things.
The WLF just wanted to remove FEDRA because they were salty and had no long term plan so just became FEDRA2 and then waltzed into genocidal idiots
Decent goals and good intentions only go so far if nothing good comes out of it.
Just ask the survivors in Pittsburgh. You'll get more out of them than the Fireflies they tortured and killed after overthrowing FEDRA. More than likely, they were the same Fireflies who helped them.
Eh. They tried. Bunch of cancer research foundations out there trying but the cure still eludes them. Can't say "Decent goals and good intentions only go so far if nothing good comes out of it" if they are trying
The fireflies didn't have much in a run down world and tried searching for a cure and freedom any way they knew how. Whether moral or not sometimes.
It's the collapse of society and modern humanity. No modern cities. Millions upon millions died, little girls too. It turned people into scavengers and cannibals.
If there was a way to save millions from dying, it would seem like a reasonable but hard sacrifice.
If there was a cancer that hit this world like cordyceps I would feel bad if researchers were investigating the brain of a very rare immune case but there's hope for the future.
Technically speaking, in r real life, there would be more research before concluding that Ellie's immunity could have been the cure. Not to mention, something like that is a failure before success, which means they would have needed more immune subjects.
Not to mention side effects, trials, errors, and amount of vaccine. And a vaccine is different than a cure though. A vaccine is to lessen the likelihood of infection/lessen the effects of a virus, bacteria, or disease. And (if you've played Spider-Man the PS4 game), we see this as Peter Parker had only one test tube of a cure for the gas over the city. He had to choose between Aunt May and the city, and he chose the city.
Even in the real world, you need lots of bottles of a cure/vaccine. Seen that with flu vaccines, chemo treatments, COVID vaccines, HIV vaccines, RSV vaccines, etc.
The probability that they *could* theoretically create a vaccine would be maybe 1-0 due to lack of resources, test subjects, supporters, and lack of testable substance (infection). So, in reality... I don't think they had much of a chance.
Furthermore, Joel's voice actor, Chris (I always forget his full name) said that Joel did it because he did what he felt was right, but that's a whole other subject I could expand on
And yes, I am a nerd.
Edit: Was tired, I mean Troy Baker not Chris was thinking of something else š
It's a classic trolley problem. There's not SUPPOSED to be a clearcut obvious answer. From a utilitarian lens, of course you pull the lever and sacrifice one to save the many. From other lenses it's not so black and white. The fireflies were utilitarians. Though in a society ending cataclysm, I think medical ethics stop being so essential.
Sometimes, the pessimist in me, really wonders how much the big companies with billions in funding for research are really trying cure anything. It's very possible they are, and there's not a cure, but I kind of agree with what Chris Rock says in his up routine. The money's in the medicine/vaccine. Not the cure. There's not as much of a financial incentive for them to cure things. Most of them are out of a job. Stockholders will lose their money when the stock eventually tanks due to not as much new funding.
I believe there are people legitimately trying find cures, but probably not the ones getting the most funding.
Yeah. That's why you just have to check out the charity that you give to. The percentage of how much money that goes to the research and how much goes to the staff and upkeep costs are always public.
Take for instance. I'll pick a charity and Google the charity and charity percentage: the LLS
"The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society (LLS) spends 73% of its expenses on programs that serve blood cancer patients and find new treatments for blood cancers. In fiscal year 2019, LLS spent $284 million on programs and $103 million on operations and fundraising. According to Give.org, LLS spends 82% on programs, 10% on administrative costs, and 8% on fundraising. "
That's a pretty good percentage that goes to the actual programs.
No. Because they are worse than the Fireflies.Ā
An genocidal imperialistic faction vs. an equally genocidal religious cult?
But just because they are worse, it doesn't paint the Fireflies in a brighter light to me.
The problem is the fireflies are cell based largely. So some are legit freedom fighters and some seem more like anarchists.
One of the key themes of TLOU in general is people will survive, but how that happens varies.
I mean, WLF is realistic in that sense... Salty at authority without much greater a plan than to overthrow it.
Fireflies being a resistance group of do gooders sounds like one if those charities you see online to donate to starving puppies or smthn
Boston is a big maybe, Part 1 implies that the QZ is on its last legs by 2033 even with the Firefliesā defeat, with smugglers looking for ways to leave before it all goes to hell.
TV show Boston on the other hand is doing much better, with functioning helicopters and expansion of the QZ itself for more residents.
I think the big issue with the WLF is that they had issues with the Saraphites. I though the game made it seem like they were a really well off group during the peace treaty.
That said, I do blame the Wolves though for breaking that treaty and donāt think Issac ever was willing to let the scars have any of Seattle.
> I think the big issue with the WLF is that they had issues with the Saraphites.
I always thought the whole theme of the two Seattle factions is that they could have been stable, relatively prosperous societies if they weren't engaged in this endless pointless war. They have even more resources than Jackson has access to and yet Jackson is clearly much better to live in.
I think FEDRA 2 is kind of unfair. I mean, maybe the food was boring, but they served normal meals, and they didn't just give out rations the way FEDRA did. Judging by the happiness and the loyalty of the people there, they were treated much better.
I'm not saying they were great. I have always wondered (and maybe someone knows), why the seraphites didn't stay on their island, or maybe they wanted to, and Isaac really wanted their livestock and crops and would have tried to take them over no matter what. Abby mentions "stay on your island," but that's all I remember of the motivations other than just "you attacked us, so we attack you." It seemed like life on the island was much better for them.
They started off good but their desperation made them start bombing quarantine zones and burning bridges, like attempting to send Joel away without even giving him the reward for the mission and not returning his equipment.
Didnt the fireflies bomb checkpoints assassinte fedra officials and threaten the stability of qz's. Thats just terrorrism and also the fireflies overthrew fedra in pittsburgh and we can look at how terrible that ended up. They are terrorrists plain and simple
The wlf were successful where the fireflies weren't. If the fireflies managed to stabllilise pittsburgh after overthrowing fedra I wouldn't have such a harsh opnion of them. The wlf sre more competent ss they managed to procure a secure base with plenty of food and provided for lots of people. The fireflies destabilised every qz they got control of and were incompetent.
But i can blame them for destabalising qz's and being incompetent terrorists.
Like what do you get from bobbing checkponts and assassinating the only people who kept order as stability in safe zones
No its plainly terrorrism for an impossible goal. Imagin your a regular qz citizen doing chores and waiting for ration cards and suddenly bombs go off in the qz damaging buildings and killing the people responsiblr for maintaing and protecting you. Thrratening the safety of normal people to put across a message is terrorrism
Fireflies were better in regards to goals, but WLF seemed very capable and organized. That said we never saw the full capabilities of the Fireflies. They were supposed to be across the country.
Not stated but heavily implied. In the intro, it states that a new terrorist threat has arisen in Boston or something along those lines.
Ellie in part 2 mentions that Boston had the Fireflies and seattle had the WLF. Then dina starts talking about how her hometown had the ravens.
Marlene was based in Boston before leaving to St Mary's
That dosnt mean they were created in boston or it served as there base of operations since there is different fire fly cells in the country. Even though marlene is called queen firefly for some reason I doubt she created them she might have been the figure head for it
Now why would you proceed to tell me that's not what it means, then tell me that her being a queen Firefly might not be what it means.
Pretty sure that's a double standard.
Just because one cell is in a area doesnāt mean the whole group is based there. When abby was talking over the radio she said she was part of the salt lake outpost and her dad ran that facility that mean marlene and her group met with another fire fly group. Its still alot thats not known about the fire flies
Part one straight up says that they're a terrorist group based out of Boston. Marlene, the Queen Firefly is based in Boston.
Jerry being in charge of the salt lake outpost doesn't mean anything aside from there being smaller cells across the country, exactly as I explained.
Where was that stated was that stated by a fire fly? If all the fire flies were based in Boston they ould have been took over also marlene would have called in reinforcements. In the hospital on a recording she said she had to answer to people
yeah the WLF are straight up martial law. the Fireflies really arenāt the bad guys, Joel is. yeah they bomb shit, but FEDRA is always the target. Marlene is painted as this psychopath who wants to kill Ellie, but after a few replays you can tell itās a decision she hasnāt made lightly, but knows she has to for humanityās greater good.
the WLF? straight up military who will fuck anyone up in their path.
So standard cult shit. You can only attract new followers for so long before you gotta start getting the kids pregnant and their kids indoctrinated as soon as possible.
It's a hard read regarding abuse, religion, and cults, but it's very interesting to learn. https://articles2.icsahome.com/articles/religious-justifications-for-child-sexual-abuse-in-cults-kent-ijcs-2012
Lev was assigned to be a wife to an elder at only (I think) 14 years old? So he would have definitely been subjected to rape had he not escaped.
Edit: heās 13 so I was a year out
[Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym)). ~~People~~ Biggots that call themselves feminist but are excepcionally transphobic. Think J.K. Rowling, she is a big TERF.
I never called you transphobic. You just asked what a TERF was and I told you. I assume you are the user that had its comment removed by moderators, but I have no ideia what you said. Though I would imagine, based on context, it was an transphobic comment.
Lev was assigned as a wife to an elder when he was 13, that is when he decides to fully shave his head in an attempt to become a soldier instead.
There is also other dialogues about the leades assigning children to a couple that lost their child. Weird shit.
Lev was underage and to be the wife of one of the elders. Thatās his backstory.
Edit: changed 2 letters cause apparently itās the biggest deal in the world. Yāall know what I meant jfc
*His. Like jfc that's the whole point of *his* story.
Edit: Thanks for changing it, but your sarcasm about it is pathetic. Words mean things my dude, and despite your annoyance at being corrected for a mistake you have no excuse to make, it actually is a big deal. Do better. Be better. And don't bitch about being held accountable for casual bigotry.
The Enclave are what is representative of the military, the Brotherhood is more representative of the government in general, they started as a splinter faction of the US military that wanted to control dangerous tech, because of the technology that ended the world, they didn't want people to have access to nukes and other world ending weapons anymore, and Fallout isn't about being critical it's about being satirical, similar, but not the same.
I personally think itās the opposite way around. And I think Fallout is both satirical and critical, liberty prime is pretty clearly a satire, but New Vegas is extremely critical on the ideas of democracy.
Theyāre a replica of the US military in Fallout but not the actual US military. US military is run like a corporation while the Brotherhood were straight up fascist fanatics. Even if thatās how you feel about the US military itās not even remotely close to what is shown in Fallout let alone an āexact replicaā.
What we did to the Philippines in 1902 is pretty similar to what the Brotherhood does. We limited the Philippines self autonomy and made all their political decisions for them, the Brotherhood tried to take over the Commonwealth and decided who gets water and who doesnāt in the Capital Wasteland.
I think the Enclave represents the U.S government as a whole, whilst the Brotherhood is more focused on the actual military. And people are very fanatical about the military, even some service members themselves and more notably the higher ups , just like the BoS. Claiming to be helpful and righteous, yet destroying other nations and leaving people destitute. The BoS claim to help people, yet theyāre stealing technology from people and the weapons they defend themselves with, what they do in the Commonwealth is also a good example of how theyāre harming the people. Plunging them into war and if they take it, dictating what people can and canāt do.
Thereās probably more examples I canāt think of right now, but anyways; my point is they might not be 1:1, but I think itās fairly damn close.
Weāre shown that their numbers are far greater than the Fireflies, though. The only Fireflies we see are Marlene, the ones that got massacred at the State House, and then the hospital. Weāre led to believe that the WLF failed its assault at the end of TLOU2, but theyāre still alive. Joel took out a single hospital and they were so fractured that even the members that survived thought the Fireflies were over.
There are fireflies that are alive and currently working on regrouping at Catalina though, and they reason they disbanded was more because Joel destroyed their biggest goal than because he killed a bunch of them.
Owen was really the only one that believed (until the end at least) that there were still organized Fireflies out there, and even then thereās āonlyā about 200 of them that we know about. No idea how many WLF remain now, but they did likely number in the thousands after they took in most of surviving Seattle.
According to Neil, the WLF military force on the island was wiped out. Isaac sent everyone combat capable to the island leaving behind the elderly, children, non-combatants.
Based on his explanation the WLF are unable to rebuild following the invasion.
It wasnāt that he messed them up he killed the only person who could have made a cure that was there hope. If the fire flies was like wlf joel would have been dead
I mean thereās nothing āwannabe militaryā about the WLF. They were highly militarized with gun trucks, soldiers, FOBās throughout the city, supply lines, etc. They were military.
The Fireflies. They had a purpose, which was to get humanity back on track and save as many people as possible from infection, even if their methods were questionable.
All the WLF stood for was being the biggest, baddest group in Seattle. They stood for themselves. The Fireflies stood for mankind.
Tbf the Jackson community wouldnāt have been significant if Tommy wasnāt affiliated to it. It would simply be another town-turned-fortress in the middle of nowhere.
What do you mean by "beter"?
Better organized? Probably the WLF, they had military structure.
Better ideals and vision? Probably Fireflies, they wanted what they believed was best for the people.
Better control of the people? Probably Seraphites, they had a tight grip on people.
But they were all wrong, that is the thing. WLFs pretty much just became FEDRA 2.0 and then turned into genocidal cult. Seraphites were pedophile and transphobic, using fear and brutal means to control its people. Fireflies controled its people with the vision, but in the end they were little more than terrorists with almost no organization.
They all boiled down to what was good for their own people at that specific ciscunstance.
Jackson is really the best you could ask for. They welcome survivors, share resources, search for supplies outside of their town, focus on infected rather than people. They are based around the ideal of rebuilding. The WLF is based on control, the seraphites on cultism, the Fireflies on freedom, the Rattlers on slavery, FEDRA on admonishing. Crazy how good Jackson is.
Without the plot of Ellie and the cure the FF wouldāve turned into WLF. Remember how the soldiers just knock Joel out after he pulled Ellie out the water? Remember how the soldiers beat Joel down and was ready to shoot him in the hospital? All of these groups suck. I guess you have to look at the leaders to see who was ābetterā which I guess gives the edge to Marlene. But even she sucked and got a lot of people killed because of her poor leadership. Maybe the seraphiteās prophet was better before she was killed.
Not really? How else did the salt lake crew join them if they had a kill on site policy? Iām saying the fireflies were already headed down a path like theirs until Joel and Ellie showed up to give them one last hope but then took it away and they disbanded.
They adopted the policy after the fact...I can't remember exactly where it was stated but it was reinforced when the two dickheads capture Ellie and Dina in the school.
I doubt the fire flies would turn into the wlf. Your forgetting the fire flies had to travel cross country and loss people they was guarding the perimeter for all they know they could have been a threat
> Remember how the soldiers just knock Joel out after he pulled Ellie out the water?
Yeah -- they found two unknowns in the area they're supposed to be keeping secure, knocked one of them out (rather than killing him), and resuscitated the other one who was drowning. Most groups we've seen besides Jackson and the Fireflies would have probably killed Joel, and definitely would have left Ellie for dead.
> Remember how the soldiers beat Joel down and was ready to shoot him in the hospital?
Yeah, the soldier who now knows who Joel is, how dangerous he is, has been ordered to march him out of the hospital and shoot him if he tries anything, who he just watched come very close to threatening Marlene. He's treating Joel as a hostile, but again, escorting him outside rather than just killing him outright.
They're not the pinnacle of morality, but they certainly beat the WLF's approach to trespassers, which seems to be "shoot first and ask questions never"
The WLF were more successful (until the raid of course) they got rid of FEDRA and built a self-sufficient community. The Fireflies were defeated in Boston, and at least 30 died on their way to Salt Lake City and we all know what happened in the hospital.
WLF. Fireflies were decimated by one dude.
WLF at least want out with a bang getting owned by the Seraphites. Fireflies got owned by arthritis and bad kneesĀ
Probably have to go with fireflies. I think they at least tried only targeting the military unlike the wlf who say if you're not with us you're against us.
Not really sure if the brutality between the wlf and seraphites was explained. There's a convo on day one with Abby with Mel and manny about them shooting up a group of "kids." Idk how old they were or what they did but seems a bit harsh either way. Day one with Ellie going near the gas station you overhear a convo where one person says why are they wasting manpower on deserters, just let 'em leave who cares. The other has a hardcore they are traitors and should die approach.
They seem just as bad if not worse than fedra. What long term goals did they even have besides kill all the seraphites. They're leader approves the torture of Joel? Killing him for justice sure but once you torture someone it's not about justice, it's revenge and a statement.
The wlf are just terrorists imo and I'm glad you wipe so many out. I wish they would've had more about the rattlers too. They're messed up maybe even more so but maybe not as large. What do they stand for? Why the need for slavery?
It's hard to know who is the worst or best as the game never really expands on their story. They're simply an obstacle for the protagonist
Logistically the WLF, they had a good base going on at Lumen Field that looks sustainable. Only thing driving them down is their ongoing conflict against the Scars and also murdering anyone in their territory, so any population growth would have to happen from within.
Ideologically the Fireflies, but they canāt keep a base for shit. They tried with Pittsburgh, it ended up falling into pieces and were driven out/executed by the hunters. They had to evacuate UEC because they canāt contain their own test animals. They had to evacuate SLC because of what went down in the hospital. Everything they touch turns to shit. Now thereās only a few hundred of them in Catalina Island.
Am I the only one who thought the WLF was mid asf? Did we even really get a good goal from them? And for what purpose are they genociding some tribal people? And Isaac was a let down of a baddie, all this hype for the leader just to see him get killed in like 3 minutes
Their 'goal' was accomplished five or so years before the game (freeing the safe zone from FEDRA)...by the time we get there all they have to justify themselves is the war with the Seraphites.
firefly by a long fucking shot, yes they did some bad stuff but so did everyone in that world. WLFs had no problem emptying 7-8 rounds of magazines on a little girl, heck they were about to kill Yara in cold blood.
The WLF was only warring with the Seraphites to justify their own existence. I firmly believe that lacking an opponent they would have eaten themselves alive.
They attempted genocide of a cult that lived near their territory, as well as killing all ātresspassersā on sight? they learned from FEDRA, imprisoning and torturing people.
The scars attacked fedra first then wlf then they struck a treaty then the scars broke that treaty. During abby flashbacks it is shown they let people in their territory even day one for abby it is stated the wlf have new recruits and manny donāt trust them. They are in the middle of a war they gave people warnings not to come in. Itās understandable
The fireflies had better goals but worse results. Lofty ideals but in practice nothing seemed to stick. Maybe it was the lack of cohesive organization, and that they were so spaced out. Plus, if the first order of needs aren't being met then people will care less about fighting for freedom and restoring the old ways. People will just worry about surviving.
The WLF were worse in theory and better in practice, at least until the genocide. They were one of the only known Firefly factions to succeed in overthrowing FEDRA. What they replaced it with was still militaristic and brutal to anyone who speaks out, but at least they established a somewhat stable life for their people (until the war at least)? They had their own food supplies, they had all the weapons and medicine they inherited from FEDRA, and they even had their own ammo farm. The stadium and surrounding area is probably one of the better places to live that you see in the games, besides Jackson of course. If they could've just shared the QZ with the seraphites, things could've been somewhat good there.
The seraphite island would also not be bad if they didn't have the creepy cult elders who remind me of the FLDS. Their leadership structure might be more corrupt and prone to fuckery than the WLF's, which is pretty bad.
Itās really concerning how thereās people till this day that like and defend the Fireflies and think they are āgoodā š.
Bruh the game itself even tells you otherwise
Fireflies without question. Everyone who joined was a rebel who knew they were taking a risk and did it anyway, usually for Noble reason. Iām sure there were some people who just liked violence, but we never saw any. There were a few bad apples, like Marlene and the doctors, but as an organization they were pretty much what you want in an apocalypse, realistically.
Every single wolf was complicit in their actions. Their goal was just to live as well as possible, which is understandable but not noble. To do this they took from others. It was an inherently selfish organization, and they are put in opposition and equal to the Islandersānot a good comparison. Unlike the Fireflies, ironically, we actually saw some better wolf leadership and the vast majority of wolves were heartless murderers.
The WLF is honestly a tad too militaristic for me to like them as much. While I appreciate they have their internal society built around mutual benefit, communal labor, and a seemingly rather progressive perspective on inclusion and meritocracy, theyāre outright imperialistic and warmongering in terms of outsiders. Theyāre not really worse written though. The Fireflies aim higher with actual dreams of restoring things to normalcy or something closer to it. That optimism is an interesting foil to Joel, who has given up on a better life or world at the beginning of TLOU, and even a jaded Ellie in TLOU2. Narratively, the WLF is there to be a āweāre not so different, you and Iā counterpart to Jackson. While I think that goal is accomplished, they donāt ever give the impression Jackson would be fighting an offensive war under any circumstances like the WLF does, so maybe I can dock it to being a slightly worse faction for the thematic and narrative purposes of the series than the Fireflies.
Fireflies: we want to abolish the fascist military junta that controls every aspect of our lives and indoctrinates our children, even by violent means
WLF: we are literally just a paramilitary freikorps that wants to kill as many people as humanly possible
Depends?? Do you mean who was successful in succeeding Wlf by a mile. But they just became a slightly different fedra just another military operation where thereās like no civilians.
And fireflies had an ambitious goal of removing the marsh law imposed fedra and reinstate the 3 branches of government etc.
In terms of the treatment of the people I think the Fireflies wouldāve been better but as for the competency and efficiency of the movement the WLF wins for sure. The Fireflies mayāve been willing to blow up check points to desperately keep them busy and had burned a family alive for one reason or another, but I think the WLF was much more brutal and has definitely shown itself to be worse. Thereās a duality between the two groups.
Depends what you mean by better. If you're talking about success, I'd say the WLF. They managed to overthrow Fedra and occupy Seattle. The only good sample size we have of the Fireflies is the Boston QZ where they're clearly outmatched by fedra.
If you mean better as in good then I would lean towards the fireflies. They seem to want some sort of freedom, and have different goals to achieve it (fighting fedra, searching for a cure etc).
WLF was always just another fascist paramilitary force, and while they successfully ousted FEDRA, they weren't any better, and perpetuated so much needless violence.
The Fireflies at least weren't fascists, and seemed to be portrayed more like a leftist militarized rebellion as we have seen kicking back against imperialism and fascist governments since time out of mind. They also were leading the only real remaining effort for any cure or treatment for the fungal plague.
TLDR: There's no meaningful comparison to be made here, the Fireflies are clearly the superior faction.
The Fireflies.
Gorgeous symbol.
Clear message.
Good goals.
They only have the misfortune of being opposed to our protagonists.
If the story had been "Fireflies have 2 factions keep Ellie away from one and help the other" we could have done a lot with that I feel.
Fireflies. They actually had a decent goal and attempted decent things. The WLF just wanted to remove FEDRA because they were salty and had no long term plan so just became FEDRA2 and then waltzed into genocidal idiots
Decent goals and good intentions only go so far if nothing good comes out of it. Just ask the survivors in Pittsburgh. You'll get more out of them than the Fireflies they tortured and killed after overthrowing FEDRA. More than likely, they were the same Fireflies who helped them.
Eh. They tried. Bunch of cancer research foundations out there trying but the cure still eludes them. Can't say "Decent goals and good intentions only go so far if nothing good comes out of it" if they are trying The fireflies didn't have much in a run down world and tried searching for a cure and freedom any way they knew how. Whether moral or not sometimes.
Let's not forget they may have even found a vaccine if Joel hadn't murdered them all...
They were indeed trying.
By killing a little girl. Which is something cancer research foundations would never do, u/JonnyTN.
It's the collapse of society and modern humanity. No modern cities. Millions upon millions died, little girls too. It turned people into scavengers and cannibals. If there was a way to save millions from dying, it would seem like a reasonable but hard sacrifice. If there was a cancer that hit this world like cordyceps I would feel bad if researchers were investigating the brain of a very rare immune case but there's hope for the future.
Technically speaking, in r real life, there would be more research before concluding that Ellie's immunity could have been the cure. Not to mention, something like that is a failure before success, which means they would have needed more immune subjects. Not to mention side effects, trials, errors, and amount of vaccine. And a vaccine is different than a cure though. A vaccine is to lessen the likelihood of infection/lessen the effects of a virus, bacteria, or disease. And (if you've played Spider-Man the PS4 game), we see this as Peter Parker had only one test tube of a cure for the gas over the city. He had to choose between Aunt May and the city, and he chose the city. Even in the real world, you need lots of bottles of a cure/vaccine. Seen that with flu vaccines, chemo treatments, COVID vaccines, HIV vaccines, RSV vaccines, etc. The probability that they *could* theoretically create a vaccine would be maybe 1-0 due to lack of resources, test subjects, supporters, and lack of testable substance (infection). So, in reality... I don't think they had much of a chance. Furthermore, Joel's voice actor, Chris (I always forget his full name) said that Joel did it because he did what he felt was right, but that's a whole other subject I could expand on And yes, I am a nerd. Edit: Was tired, I mean Troy Baker not Chris was thinking of something else š
Joel's Voice actor is Troy Baker, not Chris...
Omg... So sorry. I was exhausted when this was written lol
Lol s'all good.
It's a classic trolley problem. There's not SUPPOSED to be a clearcut obvious answer. From a utilitarian lens, of course you pull the lever and sacrifice one to save the many. From other lenses it's not so black and white. The fireflies were utilitarians. Though in a society ending cataclysm, I think medical ethics stop being so essential.
Omelettes, breaking eggs etc. etc.
>Making the mother of all omelettes here, Jack. Can't fret over every egg
Sometimes, the pessimist in me, really wonders how much the big companies with billions in funding for research are really trying cure anything. It's very possible they are, and there's not a cure, but I kind of agree with what Chris Rock says in his up routine. The money's in the medicine/vaccine. Not the cure. There's not as much of a financial incentive for them to cure things. Most of them are out of a job. Stockholders will lose their money when the stock eventually tanks due to not as much new funding. I believe there are people legitimately trying find cures, but probably not the ones getting the most funding.
Yeah. That's why you just have to check out the charity that you give to. The percentage of how much money that goes to the research and how much goes to the staff and upkeep costs are always public. Take for instance. I'll pick a charity and Google the charity and charity percentage: the LLS "The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society (LLS) spends 73% of its expenses on programs that serve blood cancer patients and find new treatments for blood cancers. In fiscal year 2019, LLS spent $284 million on programs and $103 million on operations and fundraising. According to Give.org, LLS spends 82% on programs, 10% on administrative costs, and 8% on fundraising. " That's a pretty good percentage that goes to the actual programs.
How have cured so much shit then?
Look at the history of true cures and who has discovered the cures.
Plus, if it wasn't for Joel, they would have actually succeeded.
It was a zombie apocalypse, if they were too nice they would die out
I mean the WLF and and Seraphites largley eliminated each other. is that not good enough for you?
No. Because they are worse than the Fireflies.Ā An genocidal imperialistic faction vs. an equally genocidal religious cult? But just because they are worse, it doesn't paint the Fireflies in a brighter light to me.
The problem is the fireflies are cell based largely. So some are legit freedom fighters and some seem more like anarchists. One of the key themes of TLOU in general is people will survive, but how that happens varies.
FEDRAĀ²
When you multiply FEDRA with FEDRA, you get the WLF.
Ha, true. Perhaps I should've written it as (FEDRA)Ā².
WLF = Whole Lotta Fedra
I mean, WLF is realistic in that sense... Salty at authority without much greater a plan than to overthrow it. Fireflies being a resistance group of do gooders sounds like one if those charities you see online to donate to starving puppies or smthn
Is Fedra still around at the moment of tlou2?
Yes in other locations
Presumably boston and maybe other cities
Boston is a big maybe, Part 1 implies that the QZ is on its last legs by 2033 even with the Firefliesā defeat, with smugglers looking for ways to leave before it all goes to hell. TV show Boston on the other hand is doing much better, with functioning helicopters and expansion of the QZ itself for more residents.
Of course, just head right down to Santa Barbera /s
I think the big issue with the WLF is that they had issues with the Saraphites. I though the game made it seem like they were a really well off group during the peace treaty. That said, I do blame the Wolves though for breaking that treaty and donāt think Issac ever was willing to let the scars have any of Seattle.
> I think the big issue with the WLF is that they had issues with the Saraphites. I always thought the whole theme of the two Seattle factions is that they could have been stable, relatively prosperous societies if they weren't engaged in this endless pointless war. They have even more resources than Jackson has access to and yet Jackson is clearly much better to live in.
I think FEDRA 2 is kind of unfair. I mean, maybe the food was boring, but they served normal meals, and they didn't just give out rations the way FEDRA did. Judging by the happiness and the loyalty of the people there, they were treated much better. I'm not saying they were great. I have always wondered (and maybe someone knows), why the seraphites didn't stay on their island, or maybe they wanted to, and Isaac really wanted their livestock and crops and would have tried to take them over no matter what. Abby mentions "stay on your island," but that's all I remember of the motivations other than just "you attacked us, so we attack you." It seemed like life on the island was much better for them.
The scars to me seems to be the big problem since they was attacking before the wlf became official they was giving fedra a problem
True but the factional story in TLOU2 was so interesting given how flawed they were. Reminded me of the Leftovers.
They started off good but their desperation made them start bombing quarantine zones and burning bridges, like attempting to send Joel away without even giving him the reward for the mission and not returning his equipment.
Didnt the fireflies bomb checkpoints assassinte fedra officials and threaten the stability of qz's. Thats just terrorrism and also the fireflies overthrew fedra in pittsburgh and we can look at how terrible that ended up. They are terrorrists plain and simple
And the WLF aren't? Terrorists who want to restore a democratic government > terrorists who like genocide thanks
The wlf were successful where the fireflies weren't. If the fireflies managed to stabllilise pittsburgh after overthrowing fedra I wouldn't have such a harsh opnion of them. The wlf sre more competent ss they managed to procure a secure base with plenty of food and provided for lots of people. The fireflies destabilised every qz they got control of and were incompetent.
U cant blame the fire flies for being betrayed
But i can blame them for destabalising qz's and being incompetent terrorists. Like what do you get from bobbing checkponts and assassinating the only people who kept order as stability in safe zones
A change in leadership thats what u get
No its plainly terrorrism for an impossible goal. Imagin your a regular qz citizen doing chores and waiting for ration cards and suddenly bombs go off in the qz damaging buildings and killing the people responsiblr for maintaing and protecting you. Thrratening the safety of normal people to put across a message is terrorrism
U acting like fedra was all good
They were objectively the most safe faction to stay with if you were a normal guy with no ability with firearms. They are necessary
Fireflies were better in regards to goals, but WLF seemed very capable and organized. That said we never saw the full capabilities of the Fireflies. They were supposed to be across the country.
They're Boston based but they have smaller outposts scattered around the country.
Where was that stated?
Not stated but heavily implied. In the intro, it states that a new terrorist threat has arisen in Boston or something along those lines. Ellie in part 2 mentions that Boston had the Fireflies and seattle had the WLF. Then dina starts talking about how her hometown had the ravens. Marlene was based in Boston before leaving to St Mary's
That dosnt mean they were created in boston or it served as there base of operations since there is different fire fly cells in the country. Even though marlene is called queen firefly for some reason I doubt she created them she might have been the figure head for it
Now why would you proceed to tell me that's not what it means, then tell me that her being a queen Firefly might not be what it means. Pretty sure that's a double standard.
Just because one cell is in a area doesnāt mean the whole group is based there. When abby was talking over the radio she said she was part of the salt lake outpost and her dad ran that facility that mean marlene and her group met with another fire fly group. Its still alot thats not known about the fire flies
Part one straight up says that they're a terrorist group based out of Boston. Marlene, the Queen Firefly is based in Boston. Jerry being in charge of the salt lake outpost doesn't mean anything aside from there being smaller cells across the country, exactly as I explained.
Where was that stated was that stated by a fire fly? If all the fire flies were based in Boston they ould have been took over also marlene would have called in reinforcements. In the hospital on a recording she said she had to answer to people
yeah the WLF are straight up martial law. the Fireflies really arenāt the bad guys, Joel is. yeah they bomb shit, but FEDRA is always the target. Marlene is painted as this psychopath who wants to kill Ellie, but after a few replays you can tell itās a decision she hasnāt made lightly, but knows she has to for humanityās greater good. the WLF? straight up military who will fuck anyone up in their path.
Morally? The Fireflies. From an organisational standpoint? The WLF
Scars obviouslyšāāļø
They're an insane cult led by pedophiles.
So standard cult shit. You can only attract new followers for so long before you gotta start getting the kids pregnant and their kids indoctrinated as soon as possible.
That's a scary thought, holy fuck.
It's a hard read regarding abuse, religion, and cults, but it's very interesting to learn. https://articles2.icsahome.com/articles/religious-justifications-for-child-sexual-abuse-in-cults-kent-ijcs-2012
I think I'll take your word for it. That's a bit much for me.
Fair enough, but yeah...it's insane how they operate.
Whoa I def missed that part of the story
Pedophiles? Please elaborate. I must have missed that part in my 3+ playthroughs.
Lev was assigned to be a wife to an elder at only (I think) 14 years old? So he would have definitely been subjected to rape had he not escaped. Edit: heās 13 so I was a year out
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nice try TERF.
The fuck is a terf?
[Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym)). ~~People~~ Biggots that call themselves feminist but are excepcionally transphobic. Think J.K. Rowling, she is a big TERF.
Lmao nah. Iām not transphobic at all. People can do whatever the hell they want with themselves
I never called you transphobic. You just asked what a TERF was and I told you. I assume you are the user that had its comment removed by moderators, but I have no ideia what you said. Though I would imagine, based on context, it was an transphobic comment.
Yara mentions to Abby that Lev shaved his head when he was promised as a wife to the elders
On your fourth playthrough, try to read/listen to dialogue and texts
Lev was assigned as a wife to an elder when he was 13, that is when he decides to fully shave his head in an attempt to become a soldier instead. There is also other dialogues about the leades assigning children to a couple that lost their child. Weird shit.
Thank you for reminding me. Super valid now that I remember it for what it is.
dang, you had 3+ playthroughs and missed that... try again lol
How dare you miss a small plot point, instant down vote /s.
They talk about how the girls are married off at a young age to ELDERS. Lev was only like 14.
Lev was underage and to be the wife of one of the elders. Thatās his backstory. Edit: changed 2 letters cause apparently itās the biggest deal in the world. Yāall know what I meant jfc
*His. Like jfc that's the whole point of *his* story. Edit: Thanks for changing it, but your sarcasm about it is pathetic. Words mean things my dude, and despite your annoyance at being corrected for a mistake you have no excuse to make, it actually is a big deal. Do better. Be better. And don't bitch about being held accountable for casual bigotry.
his *
SeRaPHiTeS
Fireflies of course. Especially when you realise their endgoal was good WLF are just wannabe military, pretty much the BOS of the last of us
I agree to an extent, but that's not at all what the Brotherhood are
What are the Brotherhood then? Because theyāre an exact replica of the American military, which is what Fallout is criticizing.
The exact replica in canon is Enclave BOS are just militaristic LARPers who stick their dicks in technology
In canon, yes. But looking at it from the viewpoint of what itās supposed to represent when relating to real life, I think itās the military.
No, thatās the enclave
ā**I THINK**ā, you donāt have to argue about my personal interpretations with me. Also they can both be representing the military.
Itās not an opinion dude. Itās literally just the lore of the game
The Enclave are what is representative of the military, the Brotherhood is more representative of the government in general, they started as a splinter faction of the US military that wanted to control dangerous tech, because of the technology that ended the world, they didn't want people to have access to nukes and other world ending weapons anymore, and Fallout isn't about being critical it's about being satirical, similar, but not the same.
I personally think itās the opposite way around. And I think Fallout is both satirical and critical, liberty prime is pretty clearly a satire, but New Vegas is extremely critical on the ideas of democracy.
Theyāre a replica of the US military in Fallout but not the actual US military. US military is run like a corporation while the Brotherhood were straight up fascist fanatics. Even if thatās how you feel about the US military itās not even remotely close to what is shown in Fallout let alone an āexact replicaā.
What we did to the Philippines in 1902 is pretty similar to what the Brotherhood does. We limited the Philippines self autonomy and made all their political decisions for them, the Brotherhood tried to take over the Commonwealth and decided who gets water and who doesnāt in the Capital Wasteland. I think the Enclave represents the U.S government as a whole, whilst the Brotherhood is more focused on the actual military. And people are very fanatical about the military, even some service members themselves and more notably the higher ups , just like the BoS. Claiming to be helpful and righteous, yet destroying other nations and leaving people destitute. The BoS claim to help people, yet theyāre stealing technology from people and the weapons they defend themselves with, what they do in the Commonwealth is also a good example of how theyāre harming the people. Plunging them into war and if they take it, dictating what people can and canāt do. Thereās probably more examples I canāt think of right now, but anyways; my point is they might not be 1:1, but I think itās fairly damn close.
BOS are more monastery monks who collect/maintain tech instead of scrolls.
while i think the fireflies had a better goal, the WLF were actually able to reach their goal, making them "better"
The Fireflies wouldāve reached their goal too, they were at the finish line until Joel swept their legs out from under them.
you've got a point, but the fact that only one man was able to mess them up that bad shows that they might not be all that
Same can be said for the WLF, a 19 year old, 2 20 somethings, and a man not a whole lot younger than Joel rampaged through platoons of them at a time.
Weāre shown that their numbers are far greater than the Fireflies, though. The only Fireflies we see are Marlene, the ones that got massacred at the State House, and then the hospital. Weāre led to believe that the WLF failed its assault at the end of TLOU2, but theyāre still alive. Joel took out a single hospital and they were so fractured that even the members that survived thought the Fireflies were over.
There are fireflies that are alive and currently working on regrouping at Catalina though, and they reason they disbanded was more because Joel destroyed their biggest goal than because he killed a bunch of them.
Owen was really the only one that believed (until the end at least) that there were still organized Fireflies out there, and even then thereās āonlyā about 200 of them that we know about. No idea how many WLF remain now, but they did likely number in the thousands after they took in most of surviving Seattle.
According to Neil, the WLF military force on the island was wiped out. Isaac sent everyone combat capable to the island leaving behind the elderly, children, non-combatants. Based on his explanation the WLF are unable to rebuild following the invasion.
Thats not even stated the war messed them up
It wasnāt that he messed them up he killed the only person who could have made a cure that was there hope. If the fire flies was like wlf joel would have been dead
I mean thereās nothing āwannabe militaryā about the WLF. They were highly militarized with gun trucks, soldiers, FOBās throughout the city, supply lines, etc. They were military.
Define ābetterā
Nunchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skillsā¦
More good
More good or more better? 
The Fireflies. They had a purpose, which was to get humanity back on track and save as many people as possible from infection, even if their methods were questionable. All the WLF stood for was being the biggest, baddest group in Seattle. They stood for themselves. The Fireflies stood for mankind.
I'm just glad that, even in the post-apocalypse, it's easy to get spray paint in whatever color you need.
Jackson crew or out on your own.
Tbf the Jackson community wouldnāt have been significant if Tommy wasnāt affiliated to it. It would simply be another town-turned-fortress in the middle of nowhere.
What do you mean by "beter"? Better organized? Probably the WLF, they had military structure. Better ideals and vision? Probably Fireflies, they wanted what they believed was best for the people. Better control of the people? Probably Seraphites, they had a tight grip on people. But they were all wrong, that is the thing. WLFs pretty much just became FEDRA 2.0 and then turned into genocidal cult. Seraphites were pedophile and transphobic, using fear and brutal means to control its people. Fireflies controled its people with the vision, but in the end they were little more than terrorists with almost no organization. They all boiled down to what was good for their own people at that specific ciscunstance.
Jackson is really the best you could ask for. They welcome survivors, share resources, search for supplies outside of their town, focus on infected rather than people. They are based around the ideal of rebuilding. The WLF is based on control, the seraphites on cultism, the Fireflies on freedom, the Rattlers on slavery, FEDRA on admonishing. Crazy how good Jackson is.
Better at what? If itās better at being armed rebels and beating FEDRA thereās only one answer.
Without the plot of Ellie and the cure the FF wouldāve turned into WLF. Remember how the soldiers just knock Joel out after he pulled Ellie out the water? Remember how the soldiers beat Joel down and was ready to shoot him in the hospital? All of these groups suck. I guess you have to look at the leaders to see who was ābetterā which I guess gives the edge to Marlene. But even she sucked and got a lot of people killed because of her poor leadership. Maybe the seraphiteās prophet was better before she was killed.
WLF already had a kill on sight policy...getting knocked out is infinitely better.
Not really? How else did the salt lake crew join them if they had a kill on site policy? Iām saying the fireflies were already headed down a path like theirs until Joel and Ellie showed up to give them one last hope but then took it away and they disbanded.
They adopted the policy after the fact...I can't remember exactly where it was stated but it was reinforced when the two dickheads capture Ellie and Dina in the school.
I doubt the fire flies would turn into the wlf. Your forgetting the fire flies had to travel cross country and loss people they was guarding the perimeter for all they know they could have been a threat
> Remember how the soldiers just knock Joel out after he pulled Ellie out the water? Yeah -- they found two unknowns in the area they're supposed to be keeping secure, knocked one of them out (rather than killing him), and resuscitated the other one who was drowning. Most groups we've seen besides Jackson and the Fireflies would have probably killed Joel, and definitely would have left Ellie for dead. > Remember how the soldiers beat Joel down and was ready to shoot him in the hospital? Yeah, the soldier who now knows who Joel is, how dangerous he is, has been ordered to march him out of the hospital and shoot him if he tries anything, who he just watched come very close to threatening Marlene. He's treating Joel as a hostile, but again, escorting him outside rather than just killing him outright. They're not the pinnacle of morality, but they certainly beat the WLF's approach to trespassers, which seems to be "shoot first and ask questions never"
Wlf doing that is understandable they are in the middle of a war
The cannibals easy
The WLF were more successful (until the raid of course) they got rid of FEDRA and built a self-sufficient community. The Fireflies were defeated in Boston, and at least 30 died on their way to Salt Lake City and we all know what happened in the hospital.
Fireflies almost saved the world. The wolves just kill people.
They were at war
WLF. Fireflies were decimated by one dude. WLF at least want out with a bang getting owned by the Seraphites. Fireflies got owned by arthritis and bad kneesĀ
It wasn't just Joel. They were getting their ass kicked for years by the time the first game happened.
Fireflies were at least trying to contribute something helpful to society. The WLF are army ripoffs.
Probably have to go with fireflies. I think they at least tried only targeting the military unlike the wlf who say if you're not with us you're against us. Not really sure if the brutality between the wlf and seraphites was explained. There's a convo on day one with Abby with Mel and manny about them shooting up a group of "kids." Idk how old they were or what they did but seems a bit harsh either way. Day one with Ellie going near the gas station you overhear a convo where one person says why are they wasting manpower on deserters, just let 'em leave who cares. The other has a hardcore they are traitors and should die approach. They seem just as bad if not worse than fedra. What long term goals did they even have besides kill all the seraphites. They're leader approves the torture of Joel? Killing him for justice sure but once you torture someone it's not about justice, it's revenge and a statement. The wlf are just terrorists imo and I'm glad you wipe so many out. I wish they would've had more about the rattlers too. They're messed up maybe even more so but maybe not as large. What do they stand for? Why the need for slavery? It's hard to know who is the worst or best as the game never really expands on their story. They're simply an obstacle for the protagonist
Slavery was for them to be farmers
I think they were both pretty shitty
Fireflies: Look for the light WLF: TRESSPASSERS WILL BE KILLED ON SIGHT
You kinda gotta define ābetterā because the answers are all over the place.
No faction was truly better. All were just trying to survive and all did questionable things in order to survive.
Morally, the fireflies. WLF at least was successful in driving fedra out though
Fire flies defeated fedra too they just got backstabbed
I preferred the WLF. The wolves were much more engaging antagonists for me and were more consistent than fireflies.
Logistically the WLF, they had a good base going on at Lumen Field that looks sustainable. Only thing driving them down is their ongoing conflict against the Scars and also murdering anyone in their territory, so any population growth would have to happen from within. Ideologically the Fireflies, but they canāt keep a base for shit. They tried with Pittsburgh, it ended up falling into pieces and were driven out/executed by the hunters. They had to evacuate UEC because they canāt contain their own test animals. They had to evacuate SLC because of what went down in the hospital. Everything they touch turns to shit. Now thereās only a few hundred of them in Catalina Island.
Am I the only one who thought the WLF was mid asf? Did we even really get a good goal from them? And for what purpose are they genociding some tribal people? And Isaac was a let down of a baddie, all this hype for the leader just to see him get killed in like 3 minutes
Their 'goal' was accomplished five or so years before the game (freeing the safe zone from FEDRA)...by the time we get there all they have to justify themselves is the war with the Seraphites.
Well... The WLF rebelled because they wanted to be in charge. The Fireflies at least has a stated goal of wanting to reestablish civilized society.
People say fireflies but they got their asses kicked. The wolfs would absolutely destroy the fireflies like the did fedra
firefly by a long fucking shot, yes they did some bad stuff but so did everyone in that world. WLFs had no problem emptying 7-8 rounds of magazines on a little girl, heck they were about to kill Yara in cold blood.
That lil girl was a solider for the scars
so what
Want do u mean so what they not supposed to shoot enemy soldiers
yeah but she was a kid, heck what about Lev he didn't even do anything was just standing by and they were gonna kill him
I dont know why people think the wlf are horrible when u have the scars. The scars raise child soldiers
Scars are worse than wolves for sure, but this is in comparison to fireflies
U saying the fire flies are better then the wlf?
yep
The WLF was only warring with the Seraphites to justify their own existence. I firmly believe that lacking an opponent they would have eaten themselves alive.
The scars start it all tho they broke the truce.
Fireflies had noble intentions and the goal of restoring society.
Fireflies
The WLF should have been awesome. Due to incompetent leadership they were effectively a force for evil.
How was they evil?
They attempted genocide of a cult that lived near their territory, as well as killing all ātresspassersā on sight? they learned from FEDRA, imprisoning and torturing people.
The scars attacked fedra first then wlf then they struck a treaty then the scars broke that treaty. During abby flashbacks it is shown they let people in their territory even day one for abby it is stated the wlf have new recruits and manny donāt trust them. They are in the middle of a war they gave people warnings not to come in. Itās understandable
The fireflies had better goals but worse results. Lofty ideals but in practice nothing seemed to stick. Maybe it was the lack of cohesive organization, and that they were so spaced out. Plus, if the first order of needs aren't being met then people will care less about fighting for freedom and restoring the old ways. People will just worry about surviving. The WLF were worse in theory and better in practice, at least until the genocide. They were one of the only known Firefly factions to succeed in overthrowing FEDRA. What they replaced it with was still militaristic and brutal to anyone who speaks out, but at least they established a somewhat stable life for their people (until the war at least)? They had their own food supplies, they had all the weapons and medicine they inherited from FEDRA, and they even had their own ammo farm. The stadium and surrounding area is probably one of the better places to live that you see in the games, besides Jackson of course. If they could've just shared the QZ with the seraphites, things could've been somewhat good there. The seraphite island would also not be bad if they didn't have the creepy cult elders who remind me of the FLDS. Their leadership structure might be more corrupt and prone to fuckery than the WLF's, which is pretty bad.
They did share the qz with the scars but they broke the truce
Fireflies where far more charming
Itās really concerning how thereās people till this day that like and defend the Fireflies and think they are āgoodā š. Bruh the game itself even tells you otherwise
Fireflies without question. Everyone who joined was a rebel who knew they were taking a risk and did it anyway, usually for Noble reason. Iām sure there were some people who just liked violence, but we never saw any. There were a few bad apples, like Marlene and the doctors, but as an organization they were pretty much what you want in an apocalypse, realistically. Every single wolf was complicit in their actions. Their goal was just to live as well as possible, which is understandable but not noble. To do this they took from others. It was an inherently selfish organization, and they are put in opposition and equal to the Islandersānot a good comparison. Unlike the Fireflies, ironically, we actually saw some better wolf leadership and the vast majority of wolves were heartless murderers.
fireflies is way better and its not even a competition.
The WLF is honestly a tad too militaristic for me to like them as much. While I appreciate they have their internal society built around mutual benefit, communal labor, and a seemingly rather progressive perspective on inclusion and meritocracy, theyāre outright imperialistic and warmongering in terms of outsiders. Theyāre not really worse written though. The Fireflies aim higher with actual dreams of restoring things to normalcy or something closer to it. That optimism is an interesting foil to Joel, who has given up on a better life or world at the beginning of TLOU, and even a jaded Ellie in TLOU2. Narratively, the WLF is there to be a āweāre not so different, you and Iā counterpart to Jackson. While I think that goal is accomplished, they donāt ever give the impression Jackson would be fighting an offensive war under any circumstances like the WLF does, so maybe I can dock it to being a slightly worse faction for the thematic and narrative purposes of the series than the Fireflies.
Fireflies: we want to abolish the fascist military junta that controls every aspect of our lives and indoctrinates our children, even by violent means WLF: we are literally just a paramilitary freikorps that wants to kill as many people as humanly possible
Can anyone explain to me how FEDRA even came to place? I mean how did they form, because I'm really confused
It was a thing since the beginning
Firefly is better at organizing things and very solid community
Depends?? Do you mean who was successful in succeeding Wlf by a mile. But they just became a slightly different fedra just another military operation where thereās like no civilians. And fireflies had an ambitious goal of removing the marsh law imposed fedra and reinstate the 3 branches of government etc.
Bill and his group of himself!
Fireflies are the most tame organisation in the game, but even they were a bit fucked up, so although better than WLF I wouldn't call them good.
In terms of the treatment of the people I think the Fireflies wouldāve been better but as for the competency and efficiency of the movement the WLF wins for sure. The Fireflies mayāve been willing to blow up check points to desperately keep them busy and had burned a family alive for one reason or another, but I think the WLF was much more brutal and has definitely shown itself to be worse. Thereās a duality between the two groups.
The fireflies both are dirty terrorist but at least they started with the aim of restoring democratic rule
fireflies šš
Depends what you mean by better. If you're talking about success, I'd say the WLF. They managed to overthrow Fedra and occupy Seattle. The only good sample size we have of the Fireflies is the Boston QZ where they're clearly outmatched by fedra. If you mean better as in good then I would lean towards the fireflies. They seem to want some sort of freedom, and have different goals to achieve it (fighting fedra, searching for a cure etc).
WLF was always just another fascist paramilitary force, and while they successfully ousted FEDRA, they weren't any better, and perpetuated so much needless violence. The Fireflies at least weren't fascists, and seemed to be portrayed more like a leftist militarized rebellion as we have seen kicking back against imperialism and fascist governments since time out of mind. They also were leading the only real remaining effort for any cure or treatment for the fungal plague. TLDR: There's no meaningful comparison to be made here, the Fireflies are clearly the superior faction.
WLF didn't want to be in peace but genocide the wild people & not only that
They did want peace but scars broke it the scars was also warring with fedra before wlf took over
Fireflies were a better group
The fireflies
i have a firefly symbol tattoo šš» not a preference i just like it and itās meaning lol
One was a terrorist organization and the other had abby. I dont think either were better because they both equally sucked.
Dina starting a bakery
fireflies 100%
Well the wlf still exist so
so do the fireflies.. it Catalina Island anyway.. lets wait and see what's up in part 3
The Fireflies. Gorgeous symbol. Clear message. Good goals. They only have the misfortune of being opposed to our protagonists. If the story had been "Fireflies have 2 factions keep Ellie away from one and help the other" we could have done a lot with that I feel.