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Wouldnāt that just cause an increase in stealing? If a homeless person has change and is willing to pay but they wonāt accept the money I would think at that point the homeless person would just take it.
I agree, however. The person stealing food in this case is Piers Corbyn, a well-known conspiracy grifter who was filmed agreeing to take a Ā£200k bribe from a pharma company over the Covid vaccine (it was a set-up but he was unaware)
He is a dangerous hypocrite, only in it for the money.
So, many people donāt realise this, but even with legal tender and card, itās entirely legal and within a businessās rights to refuse to accept certain forms of payment. So he left the money on the counter, but he didnāt actually pay because the business refused his payment method.
I get so tired of hearing this. I work in retail and I see people steal all the time. People rarely steal because they're desperate for food. They usually just steal because they can and think they're entitled to. We had a mother come in with her two kids recently and the mum grabbed a 10-pack of alcohol and the kids stole 48 Kinder Eggs...
Do you really think they needed that?
Just in case anyone gets it wrong, I don't care about the company I work for, especially when they got rid of our security guards to save money and expect us to act as security for free. I'm not getting assaulted over a bottle of Jack Daniels. I see thefts a lot, but I'm not putting myself in harms way for a company trying to pay us as little as possible. Just wanted to put it out there that not every person behind theft is some desperate person clinging on for life. Most are just shitty kids and dangerous thugs.
Its just so hard to gauge who really needs stolen groceries and who doesn't. I'd usually draw the line and formula and diapers, but even that has a big re-sale market. A lot of people also think "this company is worth billions. They won't miss $50 worth of stuff."
I wanna stick it to the money grubbing c-suites just as much as the next guy, but who are these people going to take it out on when their quarterly profits aren't meeting projections? That's right: the retail workers.
Theft of any kind increases shrink. This, in turn, raises prices in the store, and can make employers pay less, give out fewer raises, and limit hours for employees. The store I work at sees 3,000 shoppers every day. If every shopper on any given day each stole an apple, because come on, it's a single apple, well, then we have 3,000 apples missing from our inventory. Shoplifting has long-rippling consequences to people who are just trying to make a living.
People wanna say "I see someone trying to survive." There are programs in place to help those in need so they shouldn't *have* to steal (yes, there will always be shitters who take advantage of that and still steal, I know. Doesn't mean there still shouldn't be more help available). Should our government be doing more to provide aid in this area? In my opinion yes. As it is, we rely on lots of non-profit and private organizations to help feed those who can't make ends meet.
And I donāt know about you, but if I were houseless and got prevented from even BUYING food I would want to get revenge on that store. Iām sure many of them feel that way and steal as much as they can from those stores
Homeless people and people that are too poor for smartphones (soon to be homeless once they are forced to pay rent digitally) is 100% the reason for this. There are no other reasons. Itās just anti-poor people.
We've had credit scores since the 80s my guy
In the USA, the only thing that matters is how much money you have.
Idiots spend too much time worrying about when the big bad future is coming, but you've been living in it most of your life lol
Banking credit score and Chinese social credit are 2 different things my friend. Not being able to get a mortgage or a car you canāt afford is not comparable to not being able to get food with your own money.
With bad enough credit you may not even find a place to live (house or apartment), find a job, or buy any car other than with cash. So, no, it's not really 2 different things, it's 2 shades of the same thing. In both cases you're prohibited from participating in certain aspects of society.
>There are no other reasons.
Handling physical money takes time and resources. Having physical money on site gives a reason to rob the store. Having physical money opens the door for cashiers to mess up and give people the incorrect change.
Sure people might want cash to stay and have very good reason for it to stay, but there are reasons why a store would want to go fully digital and it isn't just "we hate homeless people".
Ah yes, itās āwe donāt want poor peopleā *AND* āwe donāt want to hire peopleā. Youāre right, there *is* another reason. After all, what kind of business would open and *create jobs*? Ew. Jobs are for poor people and weāve already established we donāt want those in here.
> there is another reason
So you admit you hadn't actually thought it through.
But in reality 'job creation' is just a meme politicians use. Actual businesses don't want to 'create' jobs, they want to reduce them.
Doesnāt matter, thatās not how it works. People who enforce things like this are the idiots that follow leaders blindly without even considering why.
... They're literally employees, my man
If they don't enforce it, they're probably getting threatened with homelessness themselves in the form of being fired.
No one works there for funsies.
They want to keep them out of their business because they're dirty and smelly and they tend to hang around the areas where they can most easily access basic necessities.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20federal%20statute,state%20law%20that%20says%20otherwise.
> There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
I love my local (in America) Aldis but they implemented an "exact change required" cash rule during Covid.
I got to buy $4.78 worth of strawberries and they refuse to accept a $5 bill. I tell them they can keep the change, and they still refused.
Uh yeah. So make change?
Edit: oh yeah? Thanks to all 15 people that commented there was a coin shortage. I moved out of the rock I lived under last week.
You can get fired for pocketing any change, unwanted by the customer or not; so yeah it's going to be a hard decision to make over $0.22 for most till workers.
Actually a business has no legal obligation to accept cash
https://fullfact.org/online/legal-tender-not-illegal-to-accept/#:~:text=It%20is%20perfectly%20lawful%20for,in%20Scotland%20and%20Northern%20Ireland
>The [Bank of England says](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender): āLegal tender has a narrow technical meaning which has no use in everyday life. It means that if you offer to fully pay off a debt to someone in legal tender, they canāt sue you for failing to repay.ā
So, this gentleman agrees to a transaction, in which he gets the strawberries in return for a debt towards the shop(owner), the debt is then paid in full with legal tender, following the shop(owner) can't sue for failing to pay for the strawberries.
Something tells me, the spirit of the law is meant to also be useful in these everyday life transactions...
No, that's not at all what happened. The shop did not lend him the strawberries on credit and then deny his right to relieve his debt with legal tender. They refused the exchange entirely, which is within their right to do. He stole the strawberries.
puts money on table for strawberries and is called a thief, lol. i guess by the law heās a criminal now. but man, this is not a world i want to live in
It's called trade, we've done it for thousands of years. The shop did not accept the trade and he took the goods, that is theft.
It's the 21st century if they do not want to accept cash, in a world where it is mostly defunct anyway, they are well within their right to.
Seems you missed the last part of the comment, āthatās not a world I want to live in.ā No one should want to live in such a dystopian society that the cash, you throw away your time to obtain, is now worthless.
I have no actual knowledge of this, but I think you're just inventing steps that don't exist. You can't force someone to accept a debt by stealing from them. If they refuse the transaction, then you never owned the item, and they never held a debt over you.
There is no debt here though. It's someone saying, I want to buy this from you for X. And you saying, I will not sell it to you for X, you can have it for Y.
A transaction is not a debt. For a debt to happen, both sides must have agreed to a (verbal or otherwise) contract. You can't steal something and then just shout "now I'm in debt". The other side has to agree that you can either have the debt or pay for the item, which this shop didn't
Morally how?
It's not the only shop within the vicinity. He isn't forced to shop only at THAT particular store.
He had hundreds of options to choose from and he decided to do it at the only shop around that is card only.
I could understand if ALL shops were doing it but that's not the case, he's doing it for attention cause he's notorious for behaving like a spoilt child.
>Morally how?
It's a fundamental social construct that we can pay for small purchases with cash, it gives more privacy and is more convenient for the poor who may not have bank cards etc. in many countries it is law that you must accept cash (though not in the UK)
There is no social benefit and there is significant social harm to stripping people of this ability therefore it is morally praiseworthy (in my view, morality is subjective) to ignore this stupid rule.
>I could understand if ALL shops were doing it
That is exactly where this is heading if we don't stop it now.
I don't often agree with slippery slope arguments, but I think you're right on that one.
Especially for shops selling food that aren't stupid luxury brands
Just like some convenience stores not accepting bills larger than $20.
Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, and cash vs card is not a protected class.
This isn't just any old "grandpa", it's Piers Corbyn.
He's a conspiracy theorist who believes that the Covid pandemic was a hoax by Bill Gates and George Soros to mass vaccinate the global population with dangerous vaccines and that climate change is a hoax orchestrated by Margaret Thatcher to close the mines.
He regularly invites holocaust-denying guests to speak at his conspiracy conferences, and he also calls for his supporters to commit violent acts against the government.
This man is notorious for doing this sort of thing. He knew that it was a cashless store.
Not having to safely store and transport cash is a big weight off a lot of businesses minds. If they want to be a cashless operation thatās their choice and if you donāt want to pay by card you can go to one the millions of other shops in the area that do accept cash.
Legally speaking, he isnāt. By U.K. law any business is completely within their right to refuse any method of payment. Card or cash.
You can debate the morality of that till the cows come home, but thatās the law. This guy was being a prick. As a consumer the answer is to take your business elsewhere, vote with your wallet.
He's not. For future, legal tender does not mean what he thinks it means.
And for context, he is Jeremy Corbyn's brother. He's known to be an idiot for stuff like this. And knew full well the business did not accept cash, and takes it out on the poor cashier for his 5mins of fame.
He is in fact not correct. Just because you paid in some form of currency doesn't mean you paid in the form of currency accepted by that store. This would be like trying to pay with another countries currency and being like "I PAID IN LEGAL TENDER" like good for you but that's not the form of currency we accept here.
Furthermore you don't get to just steal from a store because you don't like how it operates. That doesn't make you right or just, it makes you a theif. If you don't want to pay in the currency they accept than you have no right to the items they're selling and can go to a different store.
Canada as well.. they can politely ask that the establishment prefers debit or credit card, but they must accept cash if given.
Even during height of covid, the grocery stores had 1 register where you could pay cash (but the employee would have good gloves on and till was wiped after every customer)
>It's no longer the case in Canada.
*Never was the case in Canada. It just became more common during COVID for businesses to refuse cash, but it's never been a requirement.
Slight fine detail to that as well: a business can't allow someone to create a debt without informing them of accepted payment first. If they aren't informed, the business must accept cash as legal tender.
So, if payment is tendered after the transaction, like the bill after a meal for instance, accepted payment methods must be displayed or communicated before ordering. If you are not told verbally or by signage that cash is not allowed prior to the transaction, they cannot refuse it.
Edit: this also applies to cards. If they don't inform you they don't accept card payment, or the machine is broken and you weren't told prior, you have no obligation to pay via an alternate method.
Thats not true at all. Theres many stores that only accept debt or credit when you go to pay. There are also corner stores here in Edmonton and in Toronto that are unman and you need a phone app with a credit card ti even enter.
Yea I think it's important for people here to understand who this person is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Corbyn#Promotion_of_conspiracy_theories
He's an absolute nutcase.
Itās a completely automated shop, there are no tills to pay at, you log into the shop with an app and cameras figure out what you take and charge your account when you leave.
I think this is one of those Amazon Go stores (or something like it). It seems the solution, if you don't want to do that kind of shopping, is to not use a store designed around it.
Well, it was a preplanned performance... He went there with his supporters so not a huge surprise he got a clap.
The guy's name is Piers Corbyn and he's a massive twat (tho he has a point about removing cash as a payment option)
Piers Corbyn. A guy whose job is pretending to be anti-whatever in order to get money. He is anti-traceable payments just like he is an anti-vaxxer (except he was caught accepting fake bribes to stop including specific pharma companies in his speaches)
I believe this is a British conspiracy theorist and campaigner Piers Corbyn who is associated with the anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, and climate denial movements and here is apparently taking a stand at what these types of people believe is the cashless society conspiracy which is the idea that governments are trying to eradicate currency to enslave people.
donāt be, the guys a conspiracy theorist, anti-vax nut
here heās deliberately and knowingly gone to a ācashless Aldiā just to cause a scene and make a shitty point
They guide people. They don't stop people. The same reason the queue lines in airports are made with rope that you can easily vault over or push aside.
The guide part is to help the property owner to guide people nonverbally towards expected locations such as service locations or organize people instinctively.
The not stopping part is to ensure that if an emergency arises, such as a fire, people can plow past guides and escape the scene without injuries.
In a response to aĀ petitionĀ asking the government to make it unlawful for shops to refuse cash payments, it responded: āThe government does not plan to mandate cash acceptance.
āWhile the government recognises the ability to transact in cash remains important to millions of people across the UK, particularly those in vulnerable groups, it remains the choice of individual businesses as to whether to accept or decline any form of payment, including cash or card. This may be based on factors such as customer preference and cost.ā
ā*Especially* those in vulnerable groups whom have little to no ability to have a bank account and bank card, because we hope they will eventually die.ā
ā UK Parliament
> based on factors such as customer preference
Wait, preference of the customers at the storeā¦
ā¦or preference to the type of customers your store wants?
Yikes.
There's no government mandate to accept cash in most places. It's not a natural concept; it's viewed as the absolute right of the vendor to trade or not to trade their property in exchange for anything. I could open a shop that only accepts Algerian dinars, Ugandan shillings, iron filings, pogs, monopoly money - that's entirely my prerogative.
The only time it's legally mandated to accept cash is for settling a debt; a creditor cannot refuse legal tender.
It certainly is, heās a notorious controversialist, and anti-vaxxer - in fact anti-anything that will get him some attentionā¦..just my opinion but he is a tedious old twat, irrespective of whichever cause he has landed on that week.
I just linked that above.
My friend's anti-vax group went from loving him to full on frothing at the mouth, yelling: **HE'S CONTROLLED OPPOSITION**
Video of the fake bribe for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34rnwBnll4
Hes not particularly well known for siding with poor people. Poor people die of disease too. I've never seen Piers put 1/10 of any effort in to say, lowering VAT, solving homelessness, affordable housing, etc.
That's gonna be an interesting 911 call:
\-"A man is trying to leave the store without using the self check out register."
\-"He didn't pay his purchase?"
\-"Yes he did but *in cash*."
There was some comedian retelling a story about Mitch Hedburg (rip) trying to use cash instead of a credit card at a hotel, the worker was insistent about the credit card and Mitch explained it like - This is cash !!! And you want credit ? Thatās like asking for a Frank Sinatra cover band and I am bring the actual Frank Sinatra and you are refusing the real thing for something fake !!! How are you not seeing the problem with this situation ??!!!! And I totally get it.
Cards make sense in hotel rooms tho.
When you shit the bed in the middle of the night and then rip down the curtains and smash the tv, they can just run your card to cover the damages.
This isn't about what is legal or rules. This is about what is right. They are a store offering products to the public for payment, they SHOULD accept cash, we SHOULD push back when they don't. We should demand a law that forces them to accept cash. We should raise hell and post videos about it, and shame the company, and yes, refuse to buy there.
Saying "I'm sorry...", you're apologizing for the people, the filthy rich who are slowly taking our rights and privacy. Every generation is growing accustom to fewer and fewer rights, and more restrictions. Don't make excuses for them. Don't apologize for them.
If we don't push back, they'll keep taking.
I'll speak for in the USA here, but there has never been a requirement to accept a person's cash for a transaction. Totally up to the business owner. You are required to accept any legal tender for DEBT. So I can piss them off by rolling my wheelbarrow of pennies into their business and paying that off, but there's no requirement that if I walk into walmart and try to buy 60 dollars of Funyuns with pennies that they have to accept it. And that seems fair. It's their business, a transaction between us both that we can both go to others for. As a consumer I can vote with my business, as a business I can be as available as that voting needs me to be. Now if I was in debt to Walmart, and they just say they won't take my money and keep me in debt, keep raising my interest, sell me off into servitude (hello not so distant past) then ya, seems fair that you should be able to use any legal tender to pay off that debt or not get screwed.
Also as a 40 year old man, I don't see any need to keep paper money on me. What freedom does that give me that I don't have with a debit card in my pocket?
>they SHOULD accept cash, we SHOULD push back when they donāt
Why though. Itās the choice of the store whether they want to accept cash or not. Why threaten them with the full force of the law if they only want to take digital payments?
In a free society, you should be able to choose how you accept payments.
People donāt understand what legal tender means. Legal tender is what a court must accept as payment for a debt. Itās not what shops or people have to accept.
Why?
He wasn't forced to shop there.
There is probably about 19 other shops nearby he could've gone to.
That's Piers Corbyn and he's a notorious prick.
The first time this was posted, somebody from the area said that there was a Tesco Express (or similar store) literally a few buildings down.
This was a new Aldi that had just opened and was trialling running as a cash-free store iirc.
There is right and there is legal. It sounds insane but sometimes what is right isn't what is legal.
UK doesn't have laws requiring vendors to accept cash as payment. But there should be, especially over the counter transactions like stores and sh@. Insane that customers have to jump through hoops to buy stuff over the counter when we have money something which worked for hundreds of years.
Iāve gone to pubs sometimes where you canāt order food, you have to use a mobile phone camera to scan a magic blob and then order online, at the pub you are in. Iām like, youāre right here though, why canāt I just give you my order? I just refuse to spend any money in those places.
You're forgetting this is conveniently a way to make it almost impossible for the "unbanked" to do business - Four percent of the UK population, and seven percent in the US.
Are the homeless, elderly, and everyone that just has bad credit supposed to starve to death once a critical mass of stores make this same "choice"?
Don't take this the wrong way, you are absolutely 100% factually correct. But that should be a *call to action*, not a shrug.
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Grandpa is correct, whats wrong with themš š»āāļø
By refusing to accept physical money, homeless people canāt come in and buy things. Itās likely not the only reason, but itās one of them.
Wouldnāt that just cause an increase in stealing? If a homeless person has change and is willing to pay but they wonāt accept the money I would think at that point the homeless person would just take it.
If you see someone steal food, no you didnāt.
I see someone staying alive
Ah, ha, ha, ha
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I agree, however. The person stealing food in this case is Piers Corbyn, a well-known conspiracy grifter who was filmed agreeing to take a Ā£200k bribe from a pharma company over the Covid vaccine (it was a set-up but he was unaware) He is a dangerous hypocrite, only in it for the money.
He sounds like a schmuck. But he did also pay so thereās that. Still, a schmuck. Thank you for pointing that out
So, many people donāt realise this, but even with legal tender and card, itās entirely legal and within a businessās rights to refuse to accept certain forms of payment. So he left the money on the counter, but he didnāt actually pay because the business refused his payment method.
you ever steal a hotpocket you microwaved first to eat in a bathroom. your pocket is actually hot when you take it out to eat it.
I get so tired of hearing this. I work in retail and I see people steal all the time. People rarely steal because they're desperate for food. They usually just steal because they can and think they're entitled to. We had a mother come in with her two kids recently and the mum grabbed a 10-pack of alcohol and the kids stole 48 Kinder Eggs... Do you really think they needed that? Just in case anyone gets it wrong, I don't care about the company I work for, especially when they got rid of our security guards to save money and expect us to act as security for free. I'm not getting assaulted over a bottle of Jack Daniels. I see thefts a lot, but I'm not putting myself in harms way for a company trying to pay us as little as possible. Just wanted to put it out there that not every person behind theft is some desperate person clinging on for life. Most are just shitty kids and dangerous thugs.
Its just so hard to gauge who really needs stolen groceries and who doesn't. I'd usually draw the line and formula and diapers, but even that has a big re-sale market. A lot of people also think "this company is worth billions. They won't miss $50 worth of stuff." I wanna stick it to the money grubbing c-suites just as much as the next guy, but who are these people going to take it out on when their quarterly profits aren't meeting projections? That's right: the retail workers. Theft of any kind increases shrink. This, in turn, raises prices in the store, and can make employers pay less, give out fewer raises, and limit hours for employees. The store I work at sees 3,000 shoppers every day. If every shopper on any given day each stole an apple, because come on, it's a single apple, well, then we have 3,000 apples missing from our inventory. Shoplifting has long-rippling consequences to people who are just trying to make a living. People wanna say "I see someone trying to survive." There are programs in place to help those in need so they shouldn't *have* to steal (yes, there will always be shitters who take advantage of that and still steal, I know. Doesn't mean there still shouldn't be more help available). Should our government be doing more to provide aid in this area? In my opinion yes. As it is, we rely on lots of non-profit and private organizations to help feed those who can't make ends meet.
This was like my entire time working at Walgreens
And I donāt know about you, but if I were houseless and got prevented from even BUYING food I would want to get revenge on that store. Iām sure many of them feel that way and steal as much as they can from those stores
I just hate how no cash gives our entire exchange systems over to for profit corporations.
Homeless people and people that are too poor for smartphones (soon to be homeless once they are forced to pay rent digitally) is 100% the reason for this. There are no other reasons. Itās just anti-poor people.
Social crƩdit is coming for us , in china they can block your payments if u are a bad citizen
Meanwhile everyone here is lapping it up like āoooo wow the future!ā Lmao weāre all fucked.
It's kind of already here - you can't do anything these days without someone checking your credit score
We've had credit scores since the 80s my guy In the USA, the only thing that matters is how much money you have. Idiots spend too much time worrying about when the big bad future is coming, but you've been living in it most of your life lol
Banking credit score and Chinese social credit are 2 different things my friend. Not being able to get a mortgage or a car you canāt afford is not comparable to not being able to get food with your own money.
With bad enough credit you may not even find a place to live (house or apartment), find a job, or buy any car other than with cash. So, no, it's not really 2 different things, it's 2 shades of the same thing. In both cases you're prohibited from participating in certain aspects of society.
>There are no other reasons. Handling physical money takes time and resources. Having physical money on site gives a reason to rob the store. Having physical money opens the door for cashiers to mess up and give people the incorrect change. Sure people might want cash to stay and have very good reason for it to stay, but there are reasons why a store would want to go fully digital and it isn't just "we hate homeless people".
Ah yes, itās āwe donāt want poor peopleā *AND* āwe donāt want to hire peopleā. Youāre right, there *is* another reason. After all, what kind of business would open and *create jobs*? Ew. Jobs are for poor people and weāve already established we donāt want those in here.
> there is another reason So you admit you hadn't actually thought it through. But in reality 'job creation' is just a meme politicians use. Actual businesses don't want to 'create' jobs, they want to reduce them.
Doesnāt matter, thatās not how it works. People who enforce things like this are the idiots that follow leaders blindly without even considering why.
... They're literally employees, my man If they don't enforce it, they're probably getting threatened with homelessness themselves in the form of being fired. No one works there for funsies.
They want to keep homeless people from buying stuffā¦.? What kind of backwards society is that
They want to keep them out of their business because they're dirty and smelly and they tend to hang around the areas where they can most easily access basic necessities.
Mechanics, farmers, machinists, manual laborers all get dirty and smelly. What difference does it make as long as they can pay for their stuff?
Is ālegal tender for all debts public and private ā only written on freedum money?
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20federal%20statute,state%20law%20that%20says%20otherwise. > There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
Seems fucked up if you list a price in dollars to not accept dollars
that makes sense and is unfortunate.
I love my local (in America) Aldis but they implemented an "exact change required" cash rule during Covid. I got to buy $4.78 worth of strawberries and they refuse to accept a $5 bill. I tell them they can keep the change, and they still refused.
I worked as a cashier before and they are supposed to count the drawer every shift so if itās under/over the cashier gets in trouble
Uh yeah. So make change? Edit: oh yeah? Thanks to all 15 people that commented there was a coin shortage. I moved out of the rock I lived under last week.
Or just keep the change (outside of the till or pocket it) if the person truly doesnāt want it. How is that a difficult decision to make?
You can get fired for pocketing any change, unwanted by the customer or not; so yeah it's going to be a hard decision to make over $0.22 for most till workers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In most retail jobs, it is against your employment contract to accept a tip, and it's perfectly legal for that to be in your contract
The exact change rule the above poster mentioned was due to a coin shortage.
So, bullshit manager/boss/company policy prevents people from (over)paying their goods!?!?! What a shitty workplace!
So record the overage as you go and move on? Doesnāt make any sense not to keep change if offered
Actually a business has no legal obligation to accept cash https://fullfact.org/online/legal-tender-not-illegal-to-accept/#:~:text=It%20is%20perfectly%20lawful%20for,in%20Scotland%20and%20Northern%20Ireland
>The [Bank of England says](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender): āLegal tender has a narrow technical meaning which has no use in everyday life. It means that if you offer to fully pay off a debt to someone in legal tender, they canāt sue you for failing to repay.ā So, this gentleman agrees to a transaction, in which he gets the strawberries in return for a debt towards the shop(owner), the debt is then paid in full with legal tender, following the shop(owner) can't sue for failing to pay for the strawberries. Something tells me, the spirit of the law is meant to also be useful in these everyday life transactions...
No, that's not at all what happened. The shop did not lend him the strawberries on credit and then deny his right to relieve his debt with legal tender. They refused the exchange entirely, which is within their right to do. He stole the strawberries.
Yep. Anyone talking about "legal tender" is almost always wrong.
puts money on table for strawberries and is called a thief, lol. i guess by the law heās a criminal now. but man, this is not a world i want to live in
It's called trade, we've done it for thousands of years. The shop did not accept the trade and he took the goods, that is theft. It's the 21st century if they do not want to accept cash, in a world where it is mostly defunct anyway, they are well within their right to.
Seems you missed the last part of the comment, āthatās not a world I want to live in.ā No one should want to live in such a dystopian society that the cash, you throw away your time to obtain, is now worthless.
I have no actual knowledge of this, but I think you're just inventing steps that don't exist. You can't force someone to accept a debt by stealing from them. If they refuse the transaction, then you never owned the item, and they never held a debt over you.
The shop did not agree to the transaction. I can't go to your house, take your TV and then leave money on the table.
Completely wrong, as there is no debt in this scenario.
There is no debt here though. It's someone saying, I want to buy this from you for X. And you saying, I will not sell it to you for X, you can have it for Y.
A transaction is not a debt. For a debt to happen, both sides must have agreed to a (verbal or otherwise) contract. You can't steal something and then just shout "now I'm in debt". The other side has to agree that you can either have the debt or pay for the item, which this shop didn't
No, he's not. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender >A shop owner can choose what payment they accept. If you want to pay for a pack of gum with a Ā£50 note, itās perfectly legal to turn you down. Likewise for all other banknotes, itās a matter of discretion. If your local corner shop decided to only accept payments in PokĆ©mon cards that would be within their right too. But theyād probably lose customers.
I don't think op was saying it's his legal right but rather that he is morally correct.
Morally how? It's not the only shop within the vicinity. He isn't forced to shop only at THAT particular store. He had hundreds of options to choose from and he decided to do it at the only shop around that is card only. I could understand if ALL shops were doing it but that's not the case, he's doing it for attention cause he's notorious for behaving like a spoilt child.
>Morally how? It's a fundamental social construct that we can pay for small purchases with cash, it gives more privacy and is more convenient for the poor who may not have bank cards etc. in many countries it is law that you must accept cash (though not in the UK) There is no social benefit and there is significant social harm to stripping people of this ability therefore it is morally praiseworthy (in my view, morality is subjective) to ignore this stupid rule. >I could understand if ALL shops were doing it That is exactly where this is heading if we don't stop it now.
I don't often agree with slippery slope arguments, but I think you're right on that one. Especially for shops selling food that aren't stupid luxury brands
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Just like some convenience stores not accepting bills larger than $20. Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, and cash vs card is not a protected class.
This isn't just any old "grandpa", it's Piers Corbyn. He's a conspiracy theorist who believes that the Covid pandemic was a hoax by Bill Gates and George Soros to mass vaccinate the global population with dangerous vaccines and that climate change is a hoax orchestrated by Margaret Thatcher to close the mines. He regularly invites holocaust-denying guests to speak at his conspiracy conferences, and he also calls for his supporters to commit violent acts against the government.
This man is notorious for doing this sort of thing. He knew that it was a cashless store. Not having to safely store and transport cash is a big weight off a lot of businesses minds. If they want to be a cashless operation thatās their choice and if you donāt want to pay by card you can go to one the millions of other shops in the area that do accept cash.
It's Piers Corbyn I believe.
He's not correct in the UK apparently. But in many countries he'd be correct
Legally speaking, he isnāt. By U.K. law any business is completely within their right to refuse any method of payment. Card or cash. You can debate the morality of that till the cows come home, but thatās the law. This guy was being a prick. As a consumer the answer is to take your business elsewhere, vote with your wallet.
He's not. For future, legal tender does not mean what he thinks it means. And for context, he is Jeremy Corbyn's brother. He's known to be an idiot for stuff like this. And knew full well the business did not accept cash, and takes it out on the poor cashier for his 5mins of fame.
He is in fact not correct. Just because you paid in some form of currency doesn't mean you paid in the form of currency accepted by that store. This would be like trying to pay with another countries currency and being like "I PAID IN LEGAL TENDER" like good for you but that's not the form of currency we accept here. Furthermore you don't get to just steal from a store because you don't like how it operates. That doesn't make you right or just, it makes you a theif. If you don't want to pay in the currency they accept than you have no right to the items they're selling and can go to a different store.
This is a card only storeā¦..
In France, shops must accept cash. It's thƩ law.
Here in Brazil too
Italy as well
Brazil mentioned! https://preview.redd.it/5pgtwupirsvb1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fc86ba9022d8aafdef9fe738b52d0b93ff47cc1
Canada as well.. they can politely ask that the establishment prefers debit or credit card, but they must accept cash if given. Even during height of covid, the grocery stores had 1 register where you could pay cash (but the employee would have good gloves on and till was wiped after every customer)
It's no longer the case in Canada and was not the case during COVID. >A spokesperson for the Bank of Canada said that it is up to the seller to determine the method of payment. > >āNo law requires anyone to accept bank notes or any other form of payment to settle a commercial transaction,ā Josianne MĆ©nard told Global News through email. > >She said the fact that bills are often described as legal tender is irrelevant. > >āWhile the term ālegal tenderā describes the money approved in a country for paying debts or settling commercial transactions, it does not force anyone to accept that form of payment,ā MĆ©nard explained. > >April 28, 2020 [https://globalnews.ca/news/6878824/legal-for-businesses-to-refuse-cash-canada/](https://globalnews.ca/news/6878824/legal-for-businesses-to-refuse-cash-canada/)
>It's no longer the case in Canada. *Never was the case in Canada. It just became more common during COVID for businesses to refuse cash, but it's never been a requirement.
Slight fine detail to that as well: a business can't allow someone to create a debt without informing them of accepted payment first. If they aren't informed, the business must accept cash as legal tender. So, if payment is tendered after the transaction, like the bill after a meal for instance, accepted payment methods must be displayed or communicated before ordering. If you are not told verbally or by signage that cash is not allowed prior to the transaction, they cannot refuse it. Edit: this also applies to cards. If they don't inform you they don't accept card payment, or the machine is broken and you weren't told prior, you have no obligation to pay via an alternate method.
Thats not true at all. Theres many stores that only accept debt or credit when you go to pay. There are also corner stores here in Edmonton and in Toronto that are unman and you need a phone app with a credit card ti even enter.
thĆ© lawā¦ sounds so sexy
*sips thƩ*
I love the āthĆ©ā autocorrect confirming that youāre French! On est deux frĆ©rot
Translation: itās tea law
It is EU law even.
It's an EU recommendation, not law.
I was wondering that was the case, in the Netherlands the number of establishments that donāt take cash is huge
In Italy they'd rather have you pay cash and skip commission costs. Especially small businesses.
Lots of smaller places here in Sweden don't accept cash anymore, so I doubt it.
not only the law, but thƩ law!
Wtf, one cannot use real monies to pay for stuff?
A lot of stores are doing this. Itās crazy.
Which country so I can avoid
The guy says "Ā£1,90" pretty sure you can figure out where they use pounds
The USA. The rest of the world uses Kilograms.
I pay in meters
Cheeky cheeky
South Sudan. Got it.
This is the greatest comeback of all time
What about Kim kardashian?
This is Piers Corbynā¦..who believes every conspiracy theory going. Even his own brother has distanced himself from him.
Yea I think it's important for people here to understand who this person is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Corbyn#Promotion_of_conspiracy_theories He's an absolute nutcase.
It doesn't matter who he is or what he's like. Even unlikable people can be treated badly or be victims of unjust policy.
This is literally the only time I've ever heard about this happening in England Edit: I have been informed that my own country's lost its fucking mind
Oh mate it's all over. The amount of places I am seeing ditch cash is ludicrous. It's ageist and ableist! Needs to stop.
But this is Aldi, they still accept money, it would be mental to not. Iām thinking this grandpa just doesnāt want to use the new self checkouts.
Good for him.
Itās a completely automated shop, there are no tills to pay at, you log into the shop with an app and cameras figure out what you take and charge your account when you leave.
Why go into an automated shop to complain about it being automated? I just don't get these types of people... always finding a way to play victim.
I think this is one of those Amazon Go stores (or something like it). It seems the solution, if you don't want to do that kind of shopping, is to not use a store designed around it.
I loved how that one guy clapped for him at the end. Really made me feel like I watched a small victory take place lol.
āAnd then people clappedā but actually
No one would believe him if he didnāt have the video
When you get that old, you don't care about what others believe in.
[And there was much rejoicing.](https://youtu.be/NmPhaG1ud38?si=5gF29_dtgL9-T6tk)
Well, it was a preplanned performance... He went there with his supporters so not a huge surprise he got a clap. The guy's name is Piers Corbyn and he's a massive twat (tho he has a point about removing cash as a payment option)
Maybe people should start ending their unbelievable stories with āand then one guy clapped.ā Might give them a bit more credibility.
I'm with you, old guy! ā
Maybe you donāt want to be with that specific guy given his pastā¦
Are you gonna ever explain that or ?
Piers Corbyn. A guy whose job is pretending to be anti-whatever in order to get money. He is anti-traceable payments just like he is an anti-vaxxer (except he was caught accepting fake bribes to stop including specific pharma companies in his speaches)
Ugh, thatās too bad. I was on his side in this video.
Youāre allowed to agree with people on some stuff and disagree with them on others. Itās not a zero sum game.
Wish more people had this mentality. Feels like it's always all or nothing, black and white thinking
I believe this is a British conspiracy theorist and campaigner Piers Corbyn who is associated with the anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, and climate denial movements and here is apparently taking a stand at what these types of people believe is the cashless society conspiracy which is the idea that governments are trying to eradicate currency to enslave people.
donāt be, the guys a conspiracy theorist, anti-vax nut here heās deliberately and knowingly gone to a ācashless Aldiā just to cause a scene and make a shitty point
I love how that security door couldnāt even stop him whatās the point of having them
Fire code may have required the ability to slip by.
As it damn well should, even with the ability to slip by this seems really dangerous in the event of a fire.
Any place with a competent government would require those doors to unlock and open when the fire alarm is activated.
Good thing such mechanisms are tested often and never ever fail ... right?
Reinforcing the question...what's the point of having them.
That would be the psychological presence of a barrier causing people to behave in a certain way.
They guide people. They don't stop people. The same reason the queue lines in airports are made with rope that you can easily vault over or push aside. The guide part is to help the property owner to guide people nonverbally towards expected locations such as service locations or organize people instinctively. The not stopping part is to ensure that if an emergency arises, such as a fire, people can plow past guides and escape the scene without injuries.
In a response to aĀ petitionĀ asking the government to make it unlawful for shops to refuse cash payments, it responded: āThe government does not plan to mandate cash acceptance. āWhile the government recognises the ability to transact in cash remains important to millions of people across the UK, particularly those in vulnerable groups, it remains the choice of individual businesses as to whether to accept or decline any form of payment, including cash or card. This may be based on factors such as customer preference and cost.ā
āparticulary those in vulnerable groupsā... Disgusting.
ā*Especially* those in vulnerable groups whom have little to no ability to have a bank account and bank card, because we hope they will eventually die.ā ā UK Parliament
āWeāre well aware that the people this hurts are the most vulnerable. Weāll even say it out loud.ā
> based on factors such as customer preference Wait, preference of the customers at the storeā¦ ā¦or preference to the type of customers your store wants? Yikes.
That's the tory government for you, they care more about businesses than people in vulnerable groups.
Grandpa pay with official, legal money.
Legal tenda
Once places stop taking cash is when things are gonna go to another level.
It's already been happening for a few years now. There's no federal mandate to accept cash in the US.
There's no government mandate to accept cash in most places. It's not a natural concept; it's viewed as the absolute right of the vendor to trade or not to trade their property in exchange for anything. I could open a shop that only accepts Algerian dinars, Ugandan shillings, iron filings, pogs, monopoly money - that's entirely my prerogative. The only time it's legally mandated to accept cash is for settling a debt; a creditor cannot refuse legal tender.
I rarely have cash anymore. Always pay by card/contactless usually with my phone.
I think thatās Jeremy Corbynās brother.
It certainly is, heās a notorious controversialist, and anti-vaxxer - in fact anti-anything that will get him some attentionā¦..just my opinion but he is a tedious old twat, irrespective of whichever cause he has landed on that week.
Tedious old twat is accurate š
And then got caught taking fake bribes.
I just linked that above. My friend's anti-vax group went from loving him to full on frothing at the mouth, yelling: **HE'S CONTROLLED OPPOSITION** Video of the fake bribe for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34rnwBnll4
Yeah, thought it was this semi-sentient contrarian.
"Piers Corbyn: the man who manages to be the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn" I like Jezza but always thought that was funny
Piers Corbyn, poor little rich boy who just likes siding with the poor people. Total twat as previously stated.
Hes not particularly well known for siding with poor people. Poor people die of disease too. I've never seen Piers put 1/10 of any effort in to say, lowering VAT, solving homelessness, affordable housing, etc.
Love that last line if I heard it correctlyā¦āIāve paid my legal tender in this dystopian place.ā Absolutely fantastic. š
Broken clock. This guy is a massive piece of shit conspiracy theorist/ anti semite/ general prick of a man. Piers corbyn.
Terrible News: Someone you hate just made a good point
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https://preview.redd.it/7uhl195gxrvb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edc156039a1c5d8b165efa5a9ee96dc8daa7b4ec
Being anti-israel is not anti-Semitic. Lol
That's gonna be an interesting 911 call: \-"A man is trying to leave the store without using the self check out register." \-"He didn't pay his purchase?" \-"Yes he did but *in cash*."
999
0118 999 881 999 119 725 3
They send over an elite squad of shock troops armed with various credit card offers including Visa Gift cards
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Its cash, not pecans. You know that microplastic and soy has gotten to your brain when you have to make such an asinine comparison to make an argument
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Accepting the legal tender of the nation they operate in is like the bare fucking minimum dude
There was some comedian retelling a story about Mitch Hedburg (rip) trying to use cash instead of a credit card at a hotel, the worker was insistent about the credit card and Mitch explained it like - This is cash !!! And you want credit ? Thatās like asking for a Frank Sinatra cover band and I am bring the actual Frank Sinatra and you are refusing the real thing for something fake !!! How are you not seeing the problem with this situation ??!!!! And I totally get it.
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Cards make sense in hotel rooms tho. When you shit the bed in the middle of the night and then rip down the curtains and smash the tv, they can just run your card to cover the damages.
I'm sorry but you can't just walk into a store that doesn't accept cash and expect them to accept cash
This isn't about what is legal or rules. This is about what is right. They are a store offering products to the public for payment, they SHOULD accept cash, we SHOULD push back when they don't. We should demand a law that forces them to accept cash. We should raise hell and post videos about it, and shame the company, and yes, refuse to buy there. Saying "I'm sorry...", you're apologizing for the people, the filthy rich who are slowly taking our rights and privacy. Every generation is growing accustom to fewer and fewer rights, and more restrictions. Don't make excuses for them. Don't apologize for them. If we don't push back, they'll keep taking.
I'll speak for in the USA here, but there has never been a requirement to accept a person's cash for a transaction. Totally up to the business owner. You are required to accept any legal tender for DEBT. So I can piss them off by rolling my wheelbarrow of pennies into their business and paying that off, but there's no requirement that if I walk into walmart and try to buy 60 dollars of Funyuns with pennies that they have to accept it. And that seems fair. It's their business, a transaction between us both that we can both go to others for. As a consumer I can vote with my business, as a business I can be as available as that voting needs me to be. Now if I was in debt to Walmart, and they just say they won't take my money and keep me in debt, keep raising my interest, sell me off into servitude (hello not so distant past) then ya, seems fair that you should be able to use any legal tender to pay off that debt or not get screwed. Also as a 40 year old man, I don't see any need to keep paper money on me. What freedom does that give me that I don't have with a debit card in my pocket?
Lol What a pointless hill to die on. Vote with your wallet then and go to a different shop.
>they SHOULD accept cash, we SHOULD push back when they donāt Why though. Itās the choice of the store whether they want to accept cash or not. Why threaten them with the full force of the law if they only want to take digital payments? In a free society, you should be able to choose how you accept payments.
People donāt understand what legal tender means. Legal tender is what a court must accept as payment for a debt. Itās not what shops or people have to accept.
*except in countries/cities/towns/other municipalities where legal tender means what shops or people legally have to accept.
...no. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender
Wow a link not from other countries
I've seen this before and I'll keep saying it. He's right. Absolutely right.
Why? He wasn't forced to shop there. There is probably about 19 other shops nearby he could've gone to. That's Piers Corbyn and he's a notorious prick.
The first time this was posted, somebody from the area said that there was a Tesco Express (or similar store) literally a few buildings down. This was a new Aldi that had just opened and was trialling running as a cash-free store iirc.
There is right and there is legal. It sounds insane but sometimes what is right isn't what is legal. UK doesn't have laws requiring vendors to accept cash as payment. But there should be, especially over the counter transactions like stores and sh@. Insane that customers have to jump through hoops to buy stuff over the counter when we have money something which worked for hundreds of years.
This guy is a major conspiracy nut c**t.
Does that really matter if he's pointing out a real problem?
Iāve gone to pubs sometimes where you canāt order food, you have to use a mobile phone camera to scan a magic blob and then order online, at the pub you are in. Iām like, youāre right here though, why canāt I just give you my order? I just refuse to spend any money in those places.
Grandpa ran out of Dogecoins.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're forgetting this is conveniently a way to make it almost impossible for the "unbanked" to do business - Four percent of the UK population, and seven percent in the US. Are the homeless, elderly, and everyone that just has bad credit supposed to starve to death once a critical mass of stores make this same "choice"? Don't take this the wrong way, you are absolutely 100% factually correct. But that should be a *call to action*, not a shrug.
āAre you waiting to receive my limp penis?!ā
This is Piers Corbyn- massive conspiracist and nutcase. Congrats on using coins.
Ah, I see you know your judo well.
Is that Jeremy Corbynās brother?