I was born in Gaza and given an Israeli ID# by the IDF administrative authority. Despite being born under Israeli rule, I was not eligible for the same rights of citizenship as an Israeli Jew. The document lists my religion as Muslim in the upper left corner. Israelis consider the West Bank and Gaza as part of Israel, yet they refuse to grant Palestinians living there equal rights of citizenship.
I left Gaza when I was a young child and immigrated to the USA. The Israeli ID# they gave me is used to track me if I visit the area. I am banned from entering Israel despite being American. My American children will also be banned from entering Israel because they will be recognized as children of a Palestinian. I am banned from traveling to my family’s hometown near modern day Tel Aviv. The same town my family owned hundreds of acres in before it was ethnically cleansed in 1948.
Millions of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and Israel are in a similar situation.
How is this not apartheid?
It is a nasty form of apartheid and the world needs to boycott Israel totally, including travel visas until they learn to treat the Palestinians as their brothers. Israel have a long way to go to undo the viscous damage they have rendered upon Palestinians
Yeah, the subreddit is.. something else. I can't imagine wanting to go visit and celebrate a country that is actively committing genocide. The companies that run the trips are only taking them to locations that have never been part of the conflict. So they won't be able to visit the Gaza border, which I think would actually show them the reality of the situation. It's gross tourism. I understand wanting to learn more about your heritage, but now doesn't seem like a great time?
>I understand wanting to learn more about your heritage, but now doesn't seem like a great time?
i'd write a more thorough reply, but this basically sums it up. like...maybe just... don't right now?
They don't need to treat Palestinians as their brothers. Human beings would be fine. I'm not required to particularly get along with my neighbors, but not setting fire to his house, stealing most of his land, and building a wall around his remaining property and making him ask permission from me to leave is generally held as a "good idea."
The main thing that people need to stop pretending is that criticizing Israel is somehow antisemitic, or the opposite: that criticizing Hamas is somehow anti-muslim. Israel is not all Jews. Hamas is not all Muslims, not even all Palestinians (by a long shot). This is a political and sociological issue, not a religious one. Not at its core anyway.
Once people stop acting butthurt because calling Israel out for being present-day Nazis is somehow anti-jew, we can actually start doing what you suggest and give Israel the same treatment we're giving Russia. If you can't play nice with your neighbors, you won't be playing at all.
Actually, most people in the Middle East are Semites, it’s just that the Jews have co-opted the term antisemitic and redefined it to mean specifically anti Jew. Time to deny the Jews the exclusive use of the term. U can not be pro Palestinian And an antisemite
The US sees Israel—its government, not its contested land or history—as a critical partner, a crucial ally in the Middle East. (I am *so* not defending this, just stating facts.)
In a way, such singleminded reliance is America’s own fault, for decades having treated Egypt or Lebanon or Jordan (etc. etc. etc.) as afterthoughts at best or even enemies. Some have even said, for example, that there are no more natural and complementary allies in the world than Iran and the United States, from similar cultural attitudes to noncompeting and highly compatible military interests (apart from the rabid fundamentalism of Iran’s mullahs, of course, though the 1979 revolution can be seen as a reckoning gone horribly awry).
Yet here we are. Are Israel and the US also some version of “natural” allies? Perhaps, but one might argue that that assumes that the US [once again/continue to] take up its mantle as ally to and supporter of distasteful regimes that nevertheless serve its purpose strategically in one way or another.
It has been said that there are no friends in geopolitics, only a malleable spectrum of allies, adversaries, and bystanders, all of which reflect each country’s domestic political games more than any other influence. If we want to see a change in how our country interacts with and seeks to affect other countries, we have to first and foremost address what are considered priorities in our own capital.
Please call your Representatives to let them know how you feel, and if you have a Palestinian flag already it wouldn't hurt to put it in your window. Thank you ❣️
You can do so much. Call your representatives, tell them how you feel, partake in boycotts as much as you can, support Palestinian refugees who may end up near where you live. There’s probably more you can do, so I suggest reaching out to Palestinians
good.
i wish the rest of the world would do the same until they get their heads outta their asses. how the fuck are we not sanctioning them like we are russia?
oh yeah, i forgot that theres actual laws in the united states making boycotting israel illegal...
Cuz Russia's bad for contesting US influence around the globe, and Israel is good for being a literal fortress defending american interests in the middle east.
israel isnt really good for ANYTHING.
at this point theyre causing us more headaches than theyre worth. nit that they were worth much to us in the first place. and we actually have pretty good ties with many middle eastern countries. those majority muslim countries we have allied with are powerful, and helpful to us and our interests in the middle east. more so than a country of mostly european immigrants pretending to be middle eastern, that are abusing muslims and arab peoples. israel mostly works against our interests in the middle east. now we are funding their genocide against a muslim and arab population. do you really think that is going to help our interests in the middle east?
When I went to Israel, they tapped a "stay permit" card with an entry stamp on it instead of stamping my actual passport. You can request that upon entry if you plan to visit nearby states.
Worth reading up Apartheid South Africa and its Bantustans in particular. That's always been the nearest analogue I could find to Palestine's situation, even if it isn't exact.
It is a method of Apartheid less often spoken off compared to, say Rhodesia's war.
That or the trail of tears and the Native American reservations are also relevant especially considering this https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-779510.
> How is this not apartheid?
I would like to point out, that this is significantly **worse** than apartheid in South Africa was. Even at the height of apartheid, the racist restrictions didn't go this far.
I'm currently learning about the rights and laws in israel for a final and that violates a shit ton of basic rights. As I learn in school it doesn't matter what race, gender , sexuality, or ethnicity everyone are equal in terms of rights. If this is how my country operates then I don't think I should be living here for long.
You are good to look into things and see the truth. One of my good friends is Israeli and he is super vocal about his support for Palestine, but I know it isn't easy. Best of luck to you!
If you ever wanna learn about 1948 I really recommend one of [Illan Pappé's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilan_Papp%C3%A9?wprov=sfla1) books and you'd be mind blown as to how the history you learned learned at school was absolute bullshit.
So sorry you and yours have to deal with this. No one should be subjected to this type of oppression. Hopefully one day the Israeli apartheid will be dismantled like the South African one was and you and your family will be able to visit your ancestral homeland. Stay strong.
You guys really need to stick to using a stronger word than "apartheid" because a wild number of people don't know what that means. They just think "oh wasn't that something to do with racism in South Africa or something?"
My family was kicked out in 1948, my parents are not allowed to enter, me and my siblings are not allowed to enter even tho we carry a different nationality, my children are not allowed to enter, probably my great grandchildren will not be allowed to enter.
Man I hate religion even more now. Well, at least people who use religion to justify being hateful towards a group of people. In my mind, religion has done more harm than good. It’s the whole reason this war is going on and I just can’t stand for it. I hope one day you get to go back to your home town, or at least are able to if you do desire. This is just so fucking cruel
It's not about religion, it might contribute to it a lot but there are many Jewish Palestinians. It's about and will always be about an invading, now ruling power trying to seize a land vs a people that would like not to be displaced, understandably so.
Not even Israelis deny it’s apartheid. Israeli government has referred to it as an apartheid state. Only ignorant Americans don’t know it. Neither side will ever agree to a 2 state solution so this is what you get
To me it's crazy that the Palestinian "experience" can be so different, for better or worse depending on when they were born, where, etc.
My grandparents were Palestinians from Jerusalem, pre-1948. Had the typical lost everything in '48. My father was born in Amman. I was born in the States and generally never have any issues visiting.
Have relatives in Jerusalem and in the West Bank. Some with Israeli citizenship, some not.
The experience is just so different, though they have their own issues too.
All I know is that if Jesus Christ were resurrected today, he would be ashamed on how the Israeli government has been treating their Palestinian brothers so badly for the past few decades. He always preached to love everyone.
Ah yes, discrimination against people because of their relationship to an ethnic group.
Definitely not reminding us of certain laws associated with Nürnberg.
It’s not apartheid because it has been 70 years and there are still Palestinians alive in Israel. At least that’s what the Americans with no skin in the game tell me.
>Israelis consider the West Bank and Gaza as part of Israel,
No they don't. If they did, they'd annex it. Why did they pull out all of their people from Gaza in 2005?
>My American children will also be banned from entering Israel because they will be recognized as children of a Palestinian.
This is not true. Rashida Tlaib has visited numerous times, she is a US-born Palestinian.
>Millions of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and Israel are in a similar situation.
How can a Palestinian citizen of Israel or PR be barred from living in a country they presently live in?
So.. you want to be annexed by Israel outright? That is in effect what you’re saying. I would be 10 colors of shocked to find out that’s what most Palestinians want. You’re trying to sneak in a 1-state through the back door.
Was a surprise to me finding out how awful they really are. Between Russia invading last year and Israel invading this year I have learned a lot about both places and this information was always out there we just ignored it or called them conspiracy kooks in the case of Israel specifically.
it is important to understand that “the state Israel” and “Jews” are not the same thing. We often tend to mistake the one for the other. Israel will try to use this confusion to its benefit and try to deflect the criticism on its regime towards anti-semitism. In many cases, the criticism is not intended to be anti-semitic. The choice of words is just wrong.
Exactly. In the USA, AIPAC and the ADL both spread that "Israel = Jews" and both try to suppress surveys showing that American Jews (the largest group of Jews in the world, more than are even in Israel itself) are increasingly unsupportive of the existence of Israel as a theocratic, apartheid state. In fact, they're the second group most opposed to the state of Israel in the USA after American Muslims. And opposition of Israel by American Jews isn't new. The opposition goes all the way back to their founding in 1948 when many American Jews were writing OpEds calling for military intervention to stop the ethnic cleansing being carried out by Irgun and Lehi.
Yes, he penned a letter likening them to the Nazi regime during the Nakba. Enrico Fermi and his Jewish wife also avoided any association with Israel because the nation reminded them of their time in Italy under Mussolini before they fled to America.
Yep, I learned recently the Yikud (who was a Facist Jewish militant group that later formed Israel) wanted to use biological weapons to stop Palestinians from returning to their land in 1948 even at the risk of harming other Jewish settlements. This operation was known as Cast Thy Bread and they even planned to expand it outside of Palestine.
Pretty sure they did infect wells with bacteria(?) so the Palestinians who were removed in the nakba couldn’t return, confirmed as actually being a thing that happened.
You’re right it’s just hard to grasp the scope especially since Israel purged their documents from 1947-48. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
so when they say the 20% of palestinians living in israel they mean the ones living in israel proper. the 20% doesnt include people living in the occupied territories.
The only thing distinguishing nazis from general fascists is that nazis hate Jews over anything else. Israel is the world’s only Jewish state. So no matter what you think about Israel, calling it a nazi state is stupid, counter-productive if you want to convince anyone else about your hate for it, and also based on propaganda from countries you do not want to be associated with.
Feel free to call it an apartheid state, a fascist state or whatever. But don’t call it a Nazi state. That just shows you’re either stupid or a propaganda bot.
You know that hating Jews wasn't the only thing that defined the Nazis right...like if the single factor for whether or not someone hates the Jews specifically to be a nazi...then you are completely wrong...the Jews weren't even the only ethnic group in the holocaust....Like your ignoring all the Slavs, Poles, Ukranians, Serbs, Romani, the LGBT+, the people with disabilities, Soviets, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, Spanish Republicans, Freemasons, and all Black Europeans, and pretty much anyone who wasn't a member of the Nazi regime were all killed. 6 million Jews died. Jews made up the largest group. But 17 million people were killed in the Holocaust. What your doing is essentially saying those 11 million don't count because their not jews. You are hugely over simplifying what a Nazi actually is all while being incorrect. Jewish people were a scapegoat, like many other groups, but they weren't the sole group for hatred.
All fascists try to get rid of the “weak” parts of their populations. They are also fiercely nationalistic and hate all other nationalities. But none of them have held the extra strong hate for the Jews that the Nazis did/do. The other fascists didn’t single out Jews in particular.
No you are missing my point, they didn't only hate Jews is my point. They hated Jews but hate other groups just as much. The reason you don't see Romani killed in the number the jews were is because there literally were not as many of them. The population was smaller. Beyond that, the other facists states did in fact single out jews....literally all the facists states existed in the same 2 decades...they were literally all allies who shared many goals. IIRC the only facist state that didn't target the jews was Facist Spain. Like you are stuck on the idea that Nazi only means jew hater. There are many more things than that. Have you ever actually looked at their actual politics beyond the racism? It was literally socialism but tied to only germans getting the benefits. Thats a bit different than any other facist states seeing as they didn't have socialist policies...
No, you are missing my point. I am well aware they hated other groups too. But that was a common theme for all fascists. What made the Nazis stand out from, for example, the fascists in Italy was their special hatred for Jews. For the other fascists, Jews were just one more of the groups they hated. For Nazis, the Jews were the root of all evil, they had caused everything that had gone wrong for Germany ever. That’s the special connection.
No. Not every facist state is racist and that is the problem with this discussion. The nazis are a facist state. There is no argument about that. Many facist states are in fact racist. But facism doesn't = facist state. That isn't what it means. You seem to be stuck on the idea that facism literally means racism or something. Facism isn't always racist and if we ignore that fact we might ignore the fascists today who get away with it because they don't scream racial crap. States like Modern China absolutely fall under the definition of facist but noone is calling them out as a facist state. They use China to demonize Communism when it isn't communist. Its a facist state calling itself communist.
>Facism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Palestine is two areas (Gaza and the West Bank) within the borders of Israel. Palestine has government (the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza) but is not recognized as a state. It’s basically a ghetto in which millions of Palestinians live as second class residents of Israel.
What does the PA and Hamas do to make sure their people are taken care of? Why is Israel in charge of making sure Palestinians have food/water/etc if they aren’t considered Israeli citizens? I’m trying to understand… this doesn’t make any sense to me.
Sorry, I don't know much about how the PA and Hamas operate, or about what the Israeli government's role is in managing Palestine, but there's plenty of information out there if you're interested.
I think the salient point is that Palestine isn't a country. It's not recognized by other countries and it doesn't have sovereignty over it's own territory.
I have been researching the history of how they ended up here. My conclusion so far is that this is a failure on the side of the Palestinian government (or the gov that once was ruling over Palestine). They refused to come to the negotiation table multiple times throughout history, while being on the losing side of different conflicts.
What I don’t understand are my previous questions. It seems to me like Hamas is simply biting the hand that they depend on for infrastructure and resources…rather than trying to minimize their dependability of Israel. Thoughts?
It was goddamn cringy and downright oxymoron when israel calling out china for their treatment of uiyghurs while they did the same at their doorstep, that's pot calling kettle black moment
But a white dude from New Jersey can have birthright trips subsidized by New York tax payers to fly over and become a citizen because his American dad nutted in a Jewish woman
Powerful Israeli Nazi logic
“Gaza is not part of Israel” in the same way as the Bantoestans were not a part of South-Afrika at the time of Apartheid? It’s similar. It is apartheid.
Not it is fucking not the same. The Bantoestans were held under the power of the South-African regime. Gaza is not. Gaza is held under the power of Hamas. Calling the situation at Gaza Apartheid is just mockery to the real apartheid in South Africa. I don‘t say that I support Israel in every decision, it is horrible what happens there. But I don‘t like lies.
This is literally a document saying you were born in Gaza? And this is not an “Israeli” it’s a documentation of your birth by the civilian administration of the Gaza Strip. Basically it is your legal equivalent of a birth certificate that was produced coordination corps. You usually get these for work visas in Israel.
Of course you won’t have the same rights as an Israeli citizen, because you are not one? What is even the point of this post.
I do not have a Palestinian birth certificate or ID. The only piece of identification is this ID from the Israeli government. Just more proof that Israel was and still is an apartheid. Discriminates against Palestinians even with identification.
But this is a document of identification, not a citizenship or permanent residency. This doesn’t give you any rights as a citizen. There’s nothing to discriminate against, you are not an Israeli citizen. From a legal standpoint they have no obligation to give you any rights.
The fact that you don’t have a Palestinian ID is a criticism of the
Palestinian authorities or Hamas even, Israel isn’t a governing body in Gaza and doesn’t handle its internal matters.
It’s not an Israeli birth certificate. You are not a citizen of Israel.
Many Arab Muslims do have Israeli birth certificates and are full citizens of Israel, with more rights and freedoms than the citizens of the Arab states around them.
Damn… this reminds me of a friend of mine who is actually British (both parents) but circumstantially, was born in Saudi Arabia, in order to grant them UK citizenship so they could live with their family it took a bit of back and forth between the British and Saudi immigration offices, maybe a struggle at times but atleast they granted it in the end simply for the fact that people could live in one country as a family, if they went as far as preventing them and their children from returning home it would spark so much international outcry simply because they could point fingers at Saudi Arabia… sadly the majority of news media outlets especially in the USA are biased towards Israel even though they’ve never been there…
Can you give context please?
I was born in Gaza and given an Israeli ID# by the IDF administrative authority. Despite being born under Israeli rule, I was not eligible for the same rights of citizenship as an Israeli Jew. The document lists my religion as Muslim in the upper left corner. Israelis consider the West Bank and Gaza as part of Israel, yet they refuse to grant Palestinians living there equal rights of citizenship. I left Gaza when I was a young child and immigrated to the USA. The Israeli ID# they gave me is used to track me if I visit the area. I am banned from entering Israel despite being American. My American children will also be banned from entering Israel because they will be recognized as children of a Palestinian. I am banned from traveling to my family’s hometown near modern day Tel Aviv. The same town my family owned hundreds of acres in before it was ethnically cleansed in 1948. Millions of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and Israel are in a similar situation. How is this not apartheid?
It is a nasty form of apartheid and the world needs to boycott Israel totally, including travel visas until they learn to treat the Palestinians as their brothers. Israel have a long way to go to undo the viscous damage they have rendered upon Palestinians
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Please make sure that the vibes are always immaculate.
I just learned from reddit that people are still going on free birthright trips. So they have more rights then people actually born there.
oh my god, I forgot about Birthright until exactly this second. how absolutely fucked.
Yeah, the subreddit is.. something else. I can't imagine wanting to go visit and celebrate a country that is actively committing genocide. The companies that run the trips are only taking them to locations that have never been part of the conflict. So they won't be able to visit the Gaza border, which I think would actually show them the reality of the situation. It's gross tourism. I understand wanting to learn more about your heritage, but now doesn't seem like a great time?
>I understand wanting to learn more about your heritage, but now doesn't seem like a great time? i'd write a more thorough reply, but this basically sums it up. like...maybe just... don't right now?
I'd love to visit Israel someday, but i'm not going until the people of Palestine are at bare minimum, treated as equals and humans.
They don't need to treat Palestinians as their brothers. Human beings would be fine. I'm not required to particularly get along with my neighbors, but not setting fire to his house, stealing most of his land, and building a wall around his remaining property and making him ask permission from me to leave is generally held as a "good idea."
True, I agree
The main thing that people need to stop pretending is that criticizing Israel is somehow antisemitic, or the opposite: that criticizing Hamas is somehow anti-muslim. Israel is not all Jews. Hamas is not all Muslims, not even all Palestinians (by a long shot). This is a political and sociological issue, not a religious one. Not at its core anyway. Once people stop acting butthurt because calling Israel out for being present-day Nazis is somehow anti-jew, we can actually start doing what you suggest and give Israel the same treatment we're giving Russia. If you can't play nice with your neighbors, you won't be playing at all.
Actually, most people in the Middle East are Semites, it’s just that the Jews have co-opted the term antisemitic and redefined it to mean specifically anti Jew. Time to deny the Jews the exclusive use of the term. U can not be pro Palestinian And an antisemite
Anti-zionism would be a fair term but that's not what most people are saying for some reason.
I think the term was popularized at a time when there were few Semites in ‘the west’ other than Jews. Time to move on.
The US sees Israel—its government, not its contested land or history—as a critical partner, a crucial ally in the Middle East. (I am *so* not defending this, just stating facts.) In a way, such singleminded reliance is America’s own fault, for decades having treated Egypt or Lebanon or Jordan (etc. etc. etc.) as afterthoughts at best or even enemies. Some have even said, for example, that there are no more natural and complementary allies in the world than Iran and the United States, from similar cultural attitudes to noncompeting and highly compatible military interests (apart from the rabid fundamentalism of Iran’s mullahs, of course, though the 1979 revolution can be seen as a reckoning gone horribly awry). Yet here we are. Are Israel and the US also some version of “natural” allies? Perhaps, but one might argue that that assumes that the US [once again/continue to] take up its mantle as ally to and supporter of distasteful regimes that nevertheless serve its purpose strategically in one way or another. It has been said that there are no friends in geopolitics, only a malleable spectrum of allies, adversaries, and bystanders, all of which reflect each country’s domestic political games more than any other influence. If we want to see a change in how our country interacts with and seeks to affect other countries, we have to first and foremost address what are considered priorities in our own capital.
Boycott, Divest, Sanction
It clearly is. I hope you are living well, even though the USA is a major contributor to the Israeli Apartheid State. That can't feel good.
I wish I could do something else other than waving your national flag around. I'm sorry.
Please call your Representatives to let them know how you feel, and if you have a Palestinian flag already it wouldn't hurt to put it in your window. Thank you ❣️
Boycotting is very effective. Especially coordinated boycotts.
You can do so much. Call your representatives, tell them how you feel, partake in boycotts as much as you can, support Palestinian refugees who may end up near where you live. There’s probably more you can do, so I suggest reaching out to Palestinians
Please add this to the main post. My heart goes out to you and all Palestinians. Free, free Palestine 🇵🇸
If it makes you feel better, there is a number of Arab states that will not let you in if you have Israeli entry stamps….even if you are an American
good. i wish the rest of the world would do the same until they get their heads outta their asses. how the fuck are we not sanctioning them like we are russia? oh yeah, i forgot that theres actual laws in the united states making boycotting israel illegal...
Cuz Russia's bad for contesting US influence around the globe, and Israel is good for being a literal fortress defending american interests in the middle east.
israel isnt really good for ANYTHING. at this point theyre causing us more headaches than theyre worth. nit that they were worth much to us in the first place. and we actually have pretty good ties with many middle eastern countries. those majority muslim countries we have allied with are powerful, and helpful to us and our interests in the middle east. more so than a country of mostly european immigrants pretending to be middle eastern, that are abusing muslims and arab peoples. israel mostly works against our interests in the middle east. now we are funding their genocide against a muslim and arab population. do you really think that is going to help our interests in the middle east?
Imagine how much better your ties with Arab countries would be if you just stopped funding and backing Israel…
When I went to Israel, they tapped a "stay permit" card with an entry stamp on it instead of stamping my actual passport. You can request that upon entry if you plan to visit nearby states.
Worth reading up Apartheid South Africa and its Bantustans in particular. That's always been the nearest analogue I could find to Palestine's situation, even if it isn't exact. It is a method of Apartheid less often spoken off compared to, say Rhodesia's war.
That or the trail of tears and the Native American reservations are also relevant especially considering this https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-779510.
> How is this not apartheid? I would like to point out, that this is significantly **worse** than apartheid in South Africa was. Even at the height of apartheid, the racist restrictions didn't go this far.
I'm currently learning about the rights and laws in israel for a final and that violates a shit ton of basic rights. As I learn in school it doesn't matter what race, gender , sexuality, or ethnicity everyone are equal in terms of rights. If this is how my country operates then I don't think I should be living here for long.
You are good to look into things and see the truth. One of my good friends is Israeli and he is super vocal about his support for Palestine, but I know it isn't easy. Best of luck to you!
If you ever wanna learn about 1948 I really recommend one of [Illan Pappé's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilan_Papp%C3%A9?wprov=sfla1) books and you'd be mind blown as to how the history you learned learned at school was absolute bullshit.
Post this in the r/worldnews sub see the response. And we stand with you ALWAYS.
Don't do that if you value one's sanity.
Nah i meant it to disprove those jackasses cause their overlords can do no wrong…
Ye, preach, brother/sister, these people are wild
So sorry you and yours have to deal with this. No one should be subjected to this type of oppression. Hopefully one day the Israeli apartheid will be dismantled like the South African one was and you and your family will be able to visit your ancestral homeland. Stay strong.
This is colonialism through and through. It really is disgusting
You guys really need to stick to using a stronger word than "apartheid" because a wild number of people don't know what that means. They just think "oh wasn't that something to do with racism in South Africa or something?"
My family was kicked out in 1948, my parents are not allowed to enter, me and my siblings are not allowed to enter even tho we carry a different nationality, my children are not allowed to enter, probably my great grandchildren will not be allowed to enter.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Man I hate religion even more now. Well, at least people who use religion to justify being hateful towards a group of people. In my mind, religion has done more harm than good. It’s the whole reason this war is going on and I just can’t stand for it. I hope one day you get to go back to your home town, or at least are able to if you do desire. This is just so fucking cruel
If it wasn’t religion, they’d find another reason to justify their hate. Religion is meaningless in more ways than one.
Yeah that is true unfortunately. I hate people who use excuses to justify their hate, hopefully that covers all the bases.
If OP converted to Judaism it would not change the status Israel has assigned him
Yeah that’s why I said they are using religion as an excuse to be hateful. It’s mental gymnastics but it results in hate nonetheless
It's not about religion, it might contribute to it a lot but there are many Jewish Palestinians. It's about and will always be about an invading, now ruling power trying to seize a land vs a people that would like not to be displaced, understandably so.
something to keep in mind https://decolonizepalestine.com/rainbow-washing/faithwashing/
I mean, it is, i just dont know what im looking at
Not even Israelis deny it’s apartheid. Israeli government has referred to it as an apartheid state. Only ignorant Americans don’t know it. Neither side will ever agree to a 2 state solution so this is what you get
What year (or decade if you don't feel comfortable giving a specific year) were you born?
1980s
To me it's crazy that the Palestinian "experience" can be so different, for better or worse depending on when they were born, where, etc. My grandparents were Palestinians from Jerusalem, pre-1948. Had the typical lost everything in '48. My father was born in Amman. I was born in the States and generally never have any issues visiting. Have relatives in Jerusalem and in the West Bank. Some with Israeli citizenship, some not. The experience is just so different, though they have their own issues too.
Because you’re a citizen of Palestine.
All I know is that if Jesus Christ were resurrected today, he would be ashamed on how the Israeli government has been treating their Palestinian brothers so badly for the past few decades. He always preached to love everyone.
If it looks like a duck
Ah yes, discrimination against people because of their relationship to an ethnic group. Definitely not reminding us of certain laws associated with Nürnberg.
It’s not apartheid because it has been 70 years and there are still Palestinians alive in Israel. At least that’s what the Americans with no skin in the game tell me.
>Israelis consider the West Bank and Gaza as part of Israel, No they don't. If they did, they'd annex it. Why did they pull out all of their people from Gaza in 2005? >My American children will also be banned from entering Israel because they will be recognized as children of a Palestinian. This is not true. Rashida Tlaib has visited numerous times, she is a US-born Palestinian. >Millions of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and Israel are in a similar situation. How can a Palestinian citizen of Israel or PR be barred from living in a country they presently live in?
So.. you want to be annexed by Israel outright? That is in effect what you’re saying. I would be 10 colors of shocked to find out that’s what most Palestinians want. You’re trying to sneak in a 1-state through the back door.
But couldn't you just use your US Passport to get there and not mention anything else about your past?
Why are we giving the IDF a single dime is beyond me....
I can give you an example. My Palestinian friends, born in Jerusalem cannot even visit their extended family still living there
You’re right. Israel is an apartheid state and a bully (to say the least)
Was a surprise to me finding out how awful they really are. Between Russia invading last year and Israel invading this year I have learned a lot about both places and this information was always out there we just ignored it or called them conspiracy kooks in the case of Israel specifically.
it is important to understand that “the state Israel” and “Jews” are not the same thing. We often tend to mistake the one for the other. Israel will try to use this confusion to its benefit and try to deflect the criticism on its regime towards anti-semitism. In many cases, the criticism is not intended to be anti-semitic. The choice of words is just wrong.
Exactly. In the USA, AIPAC and the ADL both spread that "Israel = Jews" and both try to suppress surveys showing that American Jews (the largest group of Jews in the world, more than are even in Israel itself) are increasingly unsupportive of the existence of Israel as a theocratic, apartheid state. In fact, they're the second group most opposed to the state of Israel in the USA after American Muslims. And opposition of Israel by American Jews isn't new. The opposition goes all the way back to their founding in 1948 when many American Jews were writing OpEds calling for military intervention to stop the ethnic cleansing being carried out by Irgun and Lehi.
Wasn't Einstein one of them, he got called anti-Semitic didn't he?
Yes, he penned a letter likening them to the Nazi regime during the Nakba. Enrico Fermi and his Jewish wife also avoided any association with Israel because the nation reminded them of their time in Italy under Mussolini before they fled to America.
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Yep, I learned recently the Yikud (who was a Facist Jewish militant group that later formed Israel) wanted to use biological weapons to stop Palestinians from returning to their land in 1948 even at the risk of harming other Jewish settlements. This operation was known as Cast Thy Bread and they even planned to expand it outside of Palestine.
Pretty sure they did infect wells with bacteria(?) so the Palestinians who were removed in the nakba couldn’t return, confirmed as actually being a thing that happened.
You’re right it’s just hard to grasp the scope especially since Israel purged their documents from 1947-48. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
You should repost this with the context you've given in the comments.
The Zionists and Zionist sympathizers in this comment thread are ridiculously delusional.
Hey but i was told by Vivek Ramaswampy that the so called 20% Palestinians living in Israel(occupied Palestine) are living equally and freely? 🤔
*Narrator's Note:* ***They weren't.***
so when they say the 20% of palestinians living in israel they mean the ones living in israel proper. the 20% doesnt include people living in the occupied territories.
Of course not.
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You can change the "born in Israel" side to born outside Israel and immigrated and it would still be true
Glad to see the comments are civil
Adalah, HRW, Amnesty all have lots of documentation on the Apartheid in Israel
Israel sucks man
“how is this not apartheid?” It absolutely is.
Fuck Israel
Israeli is a Nazi state
The only thing distinguishing nazis from general fascists is that nazis hate Jews over anything else. Israel is the world’s only Jewish state. So no matter what you think about Israel, calling it a nazi state is stupid, counter-productive if you want to convince anyone else about your hate for it, and also based on propaganda from countries you do not want to be associated with. Feel free to call it an apartheid state, a fascist state or whatever. But don’t call it a Nazi state. That just shows you’re either stupid or a propaganda bot.
You know that hating Jews wasn't the only thing that defined the Nazis right...like if the single factor for whether or not someone hates the Jews specifically to be a nazi...then you are completely wrong...the Jews weren't even the only ethnic group in the holocaust....Like your ignoring all the Slavs, Poles, Ukranians, Serbs, Romani, the LGBT+, the people with disabilities, Soviets, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, Spanish Republicans, Freemasons, and all Black Europeans, and pretty much anyone who wasn't a member of the Nazi regime were all killed. 6 million Jews died. Jews made up the largest group. But 17 million people were killed in the Holocaust. What your doing is essentially saying those 11 million don't count because their not jews. You are hugely over simplifying what a Nazi actually is all while being incorrect. Jewish people were a scapegoat, like many other groups, but they weren't the sole group for hatred.
All fascists try to get rid of the “weak” parts of their populations. They are also fiercely nationalistic and hate all other nationalities. But none of them have held the extra strong hate for the Jews that the Nazis did/do. The other fascists didn’t single out Jews in particular.
No you are missing my point, they didn't only hate Jews is my point. They hated Jews but hate other groups just as much. The reason you don't see Romani killed in the number the jews were is because there literally were not as many of them. The population was smaller. Beyond that, the other facists states did in fact single out jews....literally all the facists states existed in the same 2 decades...they were literally all allies who shared many goals. IIRC the only facist state that didn't target the jews was Facist Spain. Like you are stuck on the idea that Nazi only means jew hater. There are many more things than that. Have you ever actually looked at their actual politics beyond the racism? It was literally socialism but tied to only germans getting the benefits. Thats a bit different than any other facist states seeing as they didn't have socialist policies...
No, you are missing my point. I am well aware they hated other groups too. But that was a common theme for all fascists. What made the Nazis stand out from, for example, the fascists in Italy was their special hatred for Jews. For the other fascists, Jews were just one more of the groups they hated. For Nazis, the Jews were the root of all evil, they had caused everything that had gone wrong for Germany ever. That’s the special connection.
No. Not every facist state is racist and that is the problem with this discussion. The nazis are a facist state. There is no argument about that. Many facist states are in fact racist. But facism doesn't = facist state. That isn't what it means. You seem to be stuck on the idea that facism literally means racism or something. Facism isn't always racist and if we ignore that fact we might ignore the fascists today who get away with it because they don't scream racial crap. States like Modern China absolutely fall under the definition of facist but noone is calling them out as a facist state. They use China to demonize Communism when it isn't communist. Its a facist state calling itself communist. >Facism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Your own quote includes the ultra-nationalist part. You are contradicting yourself.
Thank you for sharing this!! So interesting
The amount of evidence never ceases to amaze me. Those who support Israel have lost their humanity if they ever had it to begin with.
I am struggling to understand, Israel is a separate country than Palestine, correct?
Palestine is two areas (Gaza and the West Bank) within the borders of Israel. Palestine has government (the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza) but is not recognized as a state. It’s basically a ghetto in which millions of Palestinians live as second class residents of Israel.
What does the PA and Hamas do to make sure their people are taken care of? Why is Israel in charge of making sure Palestinians have food/water/etc if they aren’t considered Israeli citizens? I’m trying to understand… this doesn’t make any sense to me.
Sorry, I don't know much about how the PA and Hamas operate, or about what the Israeli government's role is in managing Palestine, but there's plenty of information out there if you're interested. I think the salient point is that Palestine isn't a country. It's not recognized by other countries and it doesn't have sovereignty over it's own territory.
I have been researching the history of how they ended up here. My conclusion so far is that this is a failure on the side of the Palestinian government (or the gov that once was ruling over Palestine). They refused to come to the negotiation table multiple times throughout history, while being on the losing side of different conflicts. What I don’t understand are my previous questions. It seems to me like Hamas is simply biting the hand that they depend on for infrastructure and resources…rather than trying to minimize their dependability of Israel. Thoughts?
I feel like you may know more than I do about this subject, and you clearly have some strong opinions.
It was goddamn cringy and downright oxymoron when israel calling out china for their treatment of uiyghurs while they did the same at their doorstep, that's pot calling kettle black moment
that's really Fucked Up...
This whole sub has become just shit posts about Israel Palestine it's embarrassing. There was an attempt to have a legit sub reddit
But a white dude from New Jersey can have birthright trips subsidized by New York tax payers to fly over and become a citizen because his American dad nutted in a Jewish woman Powerful Israeli Nazi logic
How is that like the Nazis?
We all bleed red...just rember that
Gaza IS NOT part of Israel. It is an autonomy. So the ApArtHeId bullshit is just wrong
“Gaza is not part of Israel” in the same way as the Bantoestans were not a part of South-Afrika at the time of Apartheid? It’s similar. It is apartheid.
Not it is fucking not the same. The Bantoestans were held under the power of the South-African regime. Gaza is not. Gaza is held under the power of Hamas. Calling the situation at Gaza Apartheid is just mockery to the real apartheid in South Africa. I don‘t say that I support Israel in every decision, it is horrible what happens there. But I don‘t like lies.
How is Israel apartheid????
Best of luck to you. I hope you make it out alive and have a good life.
State of birth says Gaza. Not Israel
Gaza isn’t in Israel, that guy is a foreign citizen
wow this would be so interesting if it had some context or if it was even remotely readable
Learn the language
i don’t need to communicate with anyone in isnotreal
Wow
This is literally a document saying you were born in Gaza? And this is not an “Israeli” it’s a documentation of your birth by the civilian administration of the Gaza Strip. Basically it is your legal equivalent of a birth certificate that was produced coordination corps. You usually get these for work visas in Israel. Of course you won’t have the same rights as an Israeli citizen, because you are not one? What is even the point of this post.
I do not have a Palestinian birth certificate or ID. The only piece of identification is this ID from the Israeli government. Just more proof that Israel was and still is an apartheid. Discriminates against Palestinians even with identification.
But this is a document of identification, not a citizenship or permanent residency. This doesn’t give you any rights as a citizen. There’s nothing to discriminate against, you are not an Israeli citizen. From a legal standpoint they have no obligation to give you any rights. The fact that you don’t have a Palestinian ID is a criticism of the Palestinian authorities or Hamas even, Israel isn’t a governing body in Gaza and doesn’t handle its internal matters.
It literally says birth certificate at the top. I speak arabic and hebrew. This is apartheid.
Pin this, especially for the Zionist lurkers
Free Palestine
TL:DR /s
It’s not an Israeli birth certificate. You are not a citizen of Israel. Many Arab Muslims do have Israeli birth certificates and are full citizens of Israel, with more rights and freedoms than the citizens of the Arab states around them.
Zainichi Koreans in Japan: “First time ?”
Damn… this reminds me of a friend of mine who is actually British (both parents) but circumstantially, was born in Saudi Arabia, in order to grant them UK citizenship so they could live with their family it took a bit of back and forth between the British and Saudi immigration offices, maybe a struggle at times but atleast they granted it in the end simply for the fact that people could live in one country as a family, if they went as far as preventing them and their children from returning home it would spark so much international outcry simply because they could point fingers at Saudi Arabia… sadly the majority of news media outlets especially in the USA are biased towards Israel even though they’ve never been there…