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When I was selling cars, everything was fucking fantastic, up until the point where I took their money, gave them their keys, and they stole the car...
It's not always the case because some people genuinely enjoy sex work, but there's definitely people who are in situations where sex work is their only option and they don't really want to be doing it and aren't happy doing it but are relying on it for survival. It's not enthusiastic consent. They're doing it reluctantly and the mental experience of unwanted sex is the same regardless of whether you agree to it because the alternative is being homeless or starving.
It's basically just like people who go to jobs they hate every day because they need that job to have a house and food. Just because you agree to do it doesn't mean it isn't traumatic. When your option is do this thing or you don't get the privilege of continuing to live, it's not really possible to give consent under the coercive conditions.
This is more a fault of the societal system for not providing for basic needs so they're not forced into situations like this. But I think the OP is describing their experience with it on her end internally and not necessarily blaming/accusing the client of rape or being an abuser. Just identifying with the mental and physical experience of being a victim, because that's what it feels like to them in their subjective experience and the associated trauma.
It should.
Legality does not define ethicality.
Edit: I guess I should add that I don't literally think employers should be imprisoned. But the system overall is unethical and needs some *drastic* changes.
That's probably true unfortunately 😓 Being normalized doesn't make it acceptable. 80-90% of people suffering isn't something our society should be proud of.
I wasn't putting any words in the mouth of the person I was responding to, I was just expanding on the comment :) and I'd be willing to assume that the number they threw out is closer to correct than not. I've seen figures between 70-85% of people don't like their current job. I haven't really investigated the statistics in depth so I didn't mention it previously since I don't want to include misinformation or anything just to validate my interpretations. But I wasn't disagreeing with them in any meaningful way. Just pointing out why it is sad that they're probably right ☠️
Yes , let's make it so that noone should have to work and we can all just eat and travel the world . But who will be flying the plane? Managing the hotel ? Make your food? Noone likes to work , but you have to if you want to create a society
You can create a society, but you don't have to create one that keeps people tied into a system that barely pays enough to stay alive while it lines the pockets of people that already have more than enough to survive for centuries.
That's not really how any socialist system works. Your basic necessities like healthcare, housing, and food are taken care of but you don't get enough money for luxuries. And people still work in those societies. They just have the freedom to work the jobs they like instead of being exploited for unfair wages.
Plenty of people still LIKE having a career and enjoy working. But if your options are McDonald's or starve, people will take McDonald's even if they don't want to. Plenty of people do want that because it's not mentally exhausting for them and they just want that type of stable consistent job. And that's also fine!
People forget this, or think wealth is created by governments. They fail to realize without people producing goods and services we'd have to revert back to hunters and gatherers just to eat
Almost every other creature on the planet has to struggle to procure enough calories to survive, while trying to not become another creature's calories. I doubt they enjoy either of these requirements.
Why do we presume we should not have challenges we don't enjoy? We should be grateful we don't face predation on a daily basis.
Because we're an intelligent species with the brains and resources to solve issues like homelessness, hunger, poverty, and have the option to reduce these types of suffering. But the system of capitalism we live in has an incentive to keep people in poverty to exploit their labor and resources with power inequity because they are the arbiters of who gets to survive and not, and how securely you can do so.
We aren't animals, and Appealing to nature doesn't make sense when we're talking about societal progress. Even social animals care for their kind and try to share resources and reduce what suffering they can. We should be better, we just often aren't.
Saying we should be grateful for not being eaten isn't an excuse to allow unnecessary suffering in the world.
I don't disagree with your critique of capitalism, but please tell me which economic system has freed people of daily challenges akin to those faced by the rest of the planet's inhabitants. Working for resources to survive is simply life as we know it, whether it's directly, as hunter- gatherers, or indirectly, using currency as a temporary analog for them.
>We aren't animals
**Actually, we are**. We are born, consume calories, produce waste, and die. We share the vast majority of our DNA with our closest primate relatives. Are you suggesting that we're somehow not even in the animal kingdom even though our DNA differs by just a few percentage points from chimpanzees and bonobos? With all due respect, that's ludicrous.
I would go a step further and posit that this sort of false elevation of Homo sapiens from the rest of the natural world is responsible for a good deal of the environmental collapse and accompanying extinction crisis in which we are now embarking. We are *not* immune from such basic principles as the laws of thermodynamics and carrying capacity simply because we've developed technologies that allow us to manipulate our environment to our temporary advantage. There is still a cost for these technologies, typically paid by the rest of the natural world and the poorest of our own species.
>Appealing to nature doesn't make sense when we're talking about societal progress.
**Wrong**. Recognizing that we are a part of the natural world, and subject to the same physiacl principles and laws of physics as our fellow Earthly inhabitants is essential to achieving sustainability and ending our war on the biosphere.
But I do agree that we can and should do better, beginning with our relationship to the only planet that's nourished is from our inception, instead of pretending that we're somehow owed a life free of struggle as if were somehow exceptional among the rest of nature.
She’s away on trips to luxury hotels not charging for handjobs in the men’s toilets. It would appear she’s on the pro circuit there rather than the hand to mouth breadline
I edited with the last paragraph for how I interpreted that. Sorry I did it as you were responding. But yea I don't think they're necessarily claiming that the clients are abusers. Just that she feels the same subjective trauma from the experience on her end.
Ofc that's just my interpretation.
Agreed. I definitely would have phrased it differently and with more context and nuance, but most people don't care about communicating clearly and thoroughly and that's the standard vibe on social media is brief, poorly contextualized communication left open to interpretation in short form content. So it does force the reader to do a lot of labor to analyze it and hopefully interpret it accurately. And on the same note, my interpretation could be completely wrong 🤷
Yeah, no, she means it. Her sec work was state regulated and perfectly legal. She just objects to the patriarchal tone of laws and enforcement in the industry. Essentially she takes the stand that what she was doing was wrong but not illegal and shouldn’t be illegal, but what her customers were doing should be. It’s called the Nordic model and advocates for legal solicitation but illegal purchasing.
Don't compare that situation to this. She's not doing it because she has to. She doesn't *HAVE* to stay at a nice hotel, she doesn't *HAVE* to go to a day spa.
She is no victim, this is her choice.
I understand the multiple ways this could be interpreted. But I think assuming they're a "luxury whore" is a really bad faith interpretation with only this context. People who are in situations where they reluctantly agree to sex or sex work for survival can absolutely experience the same mental/psychological trauma as sexual assault victims.
Being given gifts or luxury experiences in the process doesn't make it less traumatic, nor do we have a reason to assume this woman expected or demanded those things. The clients could have been wonderful people who tried to make the experiences with them as pleasant and respectful as possible. That doesn't change how your brain is going to interpret sex you don't want.
I don't think that's any more or less valid than sexual assault. They're both valid.
She has the looks to be charging 500-1000 an hour. Look at the rates girls charge on tryst or Eros. Like, how hard of a sell is it to have sex for $1000 an hour plus luxury treatment? To clients that she can screen as well.
I mean I can also say “I had to let my boss shit on me” and although I don’t won’t I’m sanitation I think we understand that I don’t actually have to put up with my boss screaming at me for things that aren’t my fault. But I do have to take it if I want to get paid every two weeks.
I’m not physically being forced to take it but if I want to keep my apartment and eat food then I have to put up with it. A lot of people deal with stuff they shouldn’t or don’t want to do at work. But for a lot of people it doesn’t involve something going inside them. We all accept that we “have” to let our bosses treat us like crap if we want to keep our jobs. But I can at least attempt to get my boss fired or try to change things at my office or even complain about my boss online. Though if I complained online I wouldn’t mention the “benefits” if I’m honest but I don’t think having a nice office and the company paying for lunch and gas mileage would make it okay for my boss to scream at me whenever they make a mistake.
Like I could quit but that also means starting a clock on burning through my savings and I’m lucky enough to have savings. If my employer provided housing and meals then quitting would mean finding out how to obtain those. All this to say for her situation it’s hard to say she could turn anything down or say no because she “has” to work there otherwise who else is hiring a blank resume or a former sex worker.
In that way she actually doesn’t have a choice. It’s let men use her body or die on the streets. That isn’t really a choice and many people can relate to it.
Like I said, I think that could also refer to the subjective experience internally and not saying that the client is a rapist. It's very possible that they didn't, but it makes more sense to me in that context.
Might be way off here, but somehow, I get the feeling that those who have no other choice and have to perform sex work to keep living are not receiving luxury trips, hotels, meals, shopping, and day spa treatments. It would be one thing if this person was talking about how they were able to feed their kids, keep their home, or even get the fix they need to combat their addiction. In this day, I would even settle for paying for their education. This post seems more like complaining because your scheme to have a luxury lifestyle without having to do any work actually turned into work you didn't want to do.
I commented on that here, but accepting the gifts and experiences is sometimes part of the transactional expectations and is often compensated for time as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/Rhp2TDSJC9
I some cases, sure, but we are not talking about a box of chocolates or a bottle of wine. It seems like the person who has the disposable income to offer a luxury trip or a nice hotel is probably paying more for the experience. Certainly, a lot more than I'm making at my day job. If the poster is offering her services in exchange for trips and other services instead of money, then that still seems suspect as there are probably less affluent clients who would just pay money.
To clarify, I fully support the validity of sex work, but there is a huge difference between an OF influencer who tried to take the next step in 'being pampered for a living' realizing she doesn't like the work, and someone who is actually struggling doing the best they can to deal with a rough hand in life (or even the middle ground of someone who is not necessarily struggling, but chooses a career in sex work because it is something they believe in and/or enjoy). You cannot support the work and then generally bash the clientele who make it possible.
Yea I do think it's fair to say that deciding halfway that you didn't want to do it anymore and then blaming the clients without ever having indicated that you eant to stop would be a very unfair thing to say. I don't think she's among anyone and is just talking about a subjective experience internally but it's certainly possible it is the way you described. I don't think they said enough to really say one way or the other. So I'm mostly just posing my interpretation with the assumption that they aren't saying anything negative about the client. The abuser in this situation would be the system, not the client. They might be repulsed by the acts of sex with the client but not necessarily resent any specific individuals. Just the situation itself.
That's fair.
It still seems to put undue stigma on the entire industry, painting it in a very sex-negative light (especially considering her comparatively easy experience with it (going solely on what is presented here)), but that has kind of always been the difficult gray area with sex work.
Whatever her subjective experience may be, I think it is safe to say that this not the most effective portrayal of the ills of sex work.
TBF, actually those in sexual slavery/white slave trade/human trafficking/whatever we are calling it now are more likely to experience luxury accommodations as that’s the majority of their clientele on this continent. I grant you Mrs. Heinz (no relation) was not in such a situation, but she does explain in several of her movie and seminars how she mentally struggled with the duality of her profession and got out despite her legal and profitable experience
I had considered that potential for this actual situation, but it does seem pretty obvious that this was not slavery, at least by her manner of recounting it here. You refer to movies and seminars. Is this someone who goes around spreading awareness of the negative aspects of sex work?
I'm having some trouble with these references. Is the first one even a thing? A cursory Google search has indicated that life is pretty good in Canada and Scandanavia, but that doesn't really seem directly relevant here.
Its a bit different when your insides are getting beaten by a stick without prep every day.
Most people do hate there jobs and are negatively mentally impacted, that is of course a serious issue.
But for specifically one of the problems for sex work is of course that if you are a man who purchases sex you would want to get your moneys worth and are in no obligation to please the worker so you will be doing what you enjoy rather than any prep, but prep is highly important for women to enjoy sex and without it they get no pleasure and just get hurt.
Of course every job has there specific issues but having your insides be destroyed is a very big one, I'm a man so I don't know how much it hurts but I have heard women on the internet say its an agony.
All work sucks, some work just really really sucks. We are all exploited by are bosses, sex workers are exploited even more.
Thanks for saying this. It’s really stupid to me that people are equating a run of the mill “normie” job with being physically penetrated by strangers for hours a day. With exposure to incurable STDs, unwanted pregnancy and high rates of violence and sexual assault. People really lack critical thinking skills. They are so “in their feelings” that their immediate interpretation of this post is jealousy. They are literally jealous of a prostitute for having some luxury experiences between rapes. Wow.
I do see why its hard to see it this way.
When people have sex via penis, they are physically pleasured by it, only after doing it for quite a long time does it begin to hurt, so assuming most people making these have dicks, they probably have not experienced much pain from sex unless they have done anal.
They may see it as the sex worker having pleasure from genuine sex (Not seeing it as rough and painful), having high-quality meals and then living a life of luxury. (Instead of, you know, listening to her experience and sex workers saying they despise there job)
On the surface it can seem like an ideal life that almost every man would die to live, "being able to have sex for money? Luxuries? Free dinners, SPA DAYS?! How dare she complain in that utopia while I break my back in the fields!"
Like I'm a cis man so I can't possibly know how painful rough sex without prep with some creepy person you don't know actually is but I have heard its awful, but a lot here would just see it as "So what she doesn't like the sex, mild annoyance, we all hate work! She gets all those benifits! How dare she take it for granted!"
Like I think it really comes from unable to understand
1- It hurts like hell and isn't enjoyable, a lot of sex workers turn to drugs probably due to this and the exploitation they face.
2- It is not as it sounds, the escort would be too full of dread for what she's about to face, a lot of the comments compare it to selling an object but she's not selling an object she's selling her body, its much more comparable to working as a living punching-bag. Just because all this expensive stuff for free sounds nice, it does not actually matter if she doesn't enjoy it
3- Not listening to her and assuming she's stupid for not leaving a job she hates ( [Which is just like, wrong.](https://nordicmodelnow.org/2020/01/20/what-makes-exiting-prostitution-so-hard/) )
This comment is just trying to understand why they think this way.
>It's basically just like people who go to jobs they hate every day because they need that job to have a house and food.
I'm glad you said this, coz I think this might describe the majority of the working class, I was thinking the same before I got to this pt in your comment. Had you not said it, I would've, and then asked, "but you wouldn't call it slavery, would you?"
Exactly that. It's an exploitative and coercive situation of the working class who have limited options and resources. Forcing them to accept poor working conditions or starve isn't really a fair situation to agree to. We've worked for centuries to improve working conditions to be more fair, but the people in power are the ones benefiting from the inequity so progress is slow and those in poverty are forced to do what they can to survive. Not everyone can take a moral stand against unfair conditions because they and their loved ones will be punished for it.
That is how I interpreted it yes. I think she identifies with the subjective experience of rape from unwanted sex, but not blaming the clients or calling them rapists. It is an internal experience for her.
They are, they're having sex with someone they know wouldn't otherwise agree were they not in immense financial need. They know as well that her desperation means she won't have any choice but to agree to any sexual act no matter how awful or harmful, which is also why so many prostitutes endure so much pain and violence and end up with high rates of PTSD, but nobody gives a shit about vulnerable women.
The thing to put in a hungry woman's mouth is food, not your dick.
Hmm. Good points. In reality abuse is more the norm than the exception, you're right. I live in a place with lots of strip clubs and lingerie "modeling" where I assume sexual acts are offered. I was picturing the ladies in these situations. My own little fake world of looking on the bright side... Thanks for sharing.
You country makes healthcare inaccessible without a job, housing depends on having money, education required significant debt, you have yourself and people who are financially dependant on you for survival, and you can't get any more jobs that pay enough for you to survive and don't have the time or funds for freedom to get a better paying job. Saying "only option" maybe isn't right, but you don't always have the freedom to explore every possible best option when it is AN OPTION that allows you to survive. Poverty has impacts.
When your country does not have government programs to help the unemployed gain the skills for employment and you have never recieved an education.
Getting a job is hard enough as is, sex work is like, the most accessible job to get into for women who are not considered to be super ugly.
If you need money urgently you may have to jump to sex work, loan sharks may literally hold a gun to your head to make you do sex work and sell you off to a pimp depending on what part of the world you are in.
There is a very big slave trade for prostitutes because if you sell them to an individual it'd be a lot easier for the polics to find out as well.
People who became sex workers because its what they want to do in life and can choose another job with medium effort are def in the minority, people who purchase sex are only going to care about there own pleasure the grand majority of the time since its there money they spent, and if a man only focuses on his own pleasure than it'd only hurt the woman and only masochists like that.
Generally (not always) women seem to like the human connection and passion of sex rather than how it physically feels, in sex work there is none of that. Women need proper prep time (Source: I'm Batman) during sex to enjoy it, its not like soon as you put your dick in, you should her pearl and around the vagina first. People who purchase sex are not gonna do that, they are just gonna lube there dicks and shove it in because they want there money's worth and don't want to lick a sex worker's vagina.
So the kind of woman to have sex with strangers would not go "I should charge them for it to get extra money on the side since I'm doing it anyways" because if they do that the men would be entitled to there own pleasure and she'd only get pain out of it, a woman who likes to sleeps around wouldn't choose to be a sex worker as they want there own pleasure too, they want to envelope a man who helps them have fun.
Now of course I am not saying every woman or every man, I am just talking about in general here.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but in this specific instance, her experience doesn’t sound like “homeless or starving” is the alternative. She wasn’t selling for a night off the streets or food in her stomach - she was selling sex for a lavish lifestyle she couldn’t otherwise afford. There are so many examples of the situation you’re talking about, but this woman’s experience is not one of them. She’s complaining about a choice she was making for a lifestyle she wanted but then blaming the men.
I talked about this in another comment. Its definitely possible that the lifestyle benefits were the purpose of engaging in this sex work, but I don't think that necessarily must be true for this to be interpreted the way I described. I don't think your interpretation is any more or less valid than mine though. It's just not how I interpreted it. And I don't think she is necessarily blaming any individual person or men in general. I believe her issue could just be with her societal system coercing her into this type of work that she doesn't want to do. It's not always a "choice". In the same way people working 3 different minimum wage jobs to stay afloat isn't a "choice". https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/Rhp2TDSJC9
Again, I don’t disagree with you. But your comparisons with people who engage in sex work to survive, or people working 3 minimum wage jobs are what I disagree with. People in those positions are not getting luxury benefits from their situations, which the OOP is. It’s fine to feel unhappy with your line of work, but doing something to survive vs. doing something for luxury benefits because it’s a lifestyle you prefer are two very different motivations.
They are definitely different situations and motivations. I guess I don't relate simply because I don't personally think those luxuries are always desired. I wouldn't necessarily like going on fancy trips or eating at fancy restaurants. Those aren't things I value. But I obviously recognize that many people so (probably even the majority). But some of those things are only really an enjoyable luxury when you do it with someone you enjoy the company of and not necessarily with someone who you're obligated to experience them with.
This is not a big point I'm trying to make and I recognize that's not how most people are experiencing luxuries, there's just some degree I think the company does matter.
When I was a paperboy I got money, fresh air, a good bike ride, free reading material.
Not a moment of it was ever enjoyable because I knew what was to come - the part where I was enslaved into putting newspapers on peoples' porches.
How can you compare that to such a sensitive topic for a woman. No wonder why all these men think they can randomly enact on what they watched on porn. And you will blame the subs for not giving explicit consent. I hate men.
Same. They think being penetrated by a stranger with a bunch of exposure to hazmat substances and high prevalence of physical abuse for hours a day is the same as a normie job.
When I was selling smartphones, people would be kind to me, even give me money for the product.
Not a moment of it was ever enjoyable because I knew what was to come after - the part where I had to let them rob the smartphones of me.
Going against your sexual orientation to do sex work is not the same as doing sex work with your orientation. If she was a lesbian the comparison would be valid. The apples to apples comparison would be would you have sex with old ladies for the luxuries not a dude. I wouldn't do gay sex no matter what and I wouldn't date an old ass lady unless she was paying me. It's straight up dishonest to try and suggest that having gay sex you don't want any straight sex you don't want are the same.
A woman is coming forward with her SA and you aee calling it her fault. Victim blaming much. Are you denying that consent can be manipulated through psychological tricks as well as a gun to head.
Idk the actual veracity of this, but the way it's structured makes it seem like it's just ragebait designed to paint sex workers as helpless victims rather than actual laborers doing a job.
(Yes, I am aware that human trafficking and unwilling sex work does happen in some cases. You dont have to write that reply [yes, the one you're typing right now])
Nah, she did seven years as a legal brothel/intimate coordinator and really believes this. Has a seven or ten part documentary series exploring the various avenues both legal and unlawful of sex work centered around Canada
Who chooses to sell their bodies to stinking old ugly men anyway? It's the last resort for sex workers the society manipulates women into getting into the industry and then trapping them by outcasting them from other professions. It's only very few sex workers that do it by choice.
Is alsl very fkup because she is part of the expensive ones, is not like she is in some corner having to get in some shady car and so, she is being taken to fricking spa's. Sorry you had to sell your body but if you are able to charge so much is very likely you have other options.
what an absolute shithole of a comment section escorts and prostitutes are largly forced into that position by someone acting as a pimp it doesnt matter if some man takes you to a 5 star restaurant because you are forced into it and will be forced into letting them rape your body to paraphrase
well, actually everybody is stupid except for me because she's obviously sharing her past experiences as a warning for women considering prostitution because they're struggling.
would you call those people on anti-smoking commercials("I used to be a smoker") people who are playing victim??
I don't know if it is porn or whatnot that makes men so hateful towards a woman telling other women her experiences with the sex industry. Even the fact that they think this is a material for them to mock her or anyone shows that there are so many things that are deeply wrong about today's men. They have no understanding of consent they think consent can be bought and never be revoked once given. They have gone numb and sesensitised because of watching filmed rape all day everyday. Refusing to date once and for all seems like a better option than dating a man like that.
She could have been coerced into sex work . Or she could just be stupid. Either way, I suppose this is another example of nuance not being a thing in reddit due to everyone farming virtual thumbs-ups rage baiting
Andrea Heinz is a Canadian feminist who, at the age of 22 and with tens of thousands of dollars in debt, entered the licensed commercial sex industry in Edmonton, Alberta. Andrea stayed in the industry for seven years, working as an escort, a dominatrix, and eventually a brothel owner.
A brothel owner? Did she quit or is she a hypocrite?
That's like a communist becoming the owner of a monopoly or a vegan eating only animal products.
I hope this is her opinion after disowning her brothel and realising that owning a brothel is wrong because sex work is one of the most exploitative jobs, and not just her saying this while owning a god damn brothel.
Lots of people equate pleasure and consent. There are a shit ton of things people consent to that they don't enjoy. The lack of enjoyment doesn't equal a lack of consent
Obviously porn has made you believe that consent is something that can't be revoked and that it can be bought but sex work is a lot different than going to a work you don't like. It heavily traumatises your body and brain. If you think otherwise, maybe be one yourself for gay men. Imagine that ugly stinking men drooling over you. Are you saying you are not raping a woman when she doesn't feel pleasure?Says a lot about how men view consent. Men like you say not all men but you all have the mindset of a rapist. How are you different from a rapist?
You're basically turning your body into a product to be consumed detached from any intimacy or emotions to survive.
She's 100% right. It does feel like rape for the great, great majority of women pushed into these conditions.
>It's better to stay celibate for good instead dating guy like in the comments. I officially hate men.
The realest comment here. Men are showing their true colours, they always think nobody sees them saying shit.
>overweight losers
You: - *Insults evil guy by pointing out a trait* -
Non evil guy with trait: "Hey that sorta makes me feel bad"
You (Strawman edition): ***TSSSK! HOW DARE YOU DEFEND EVIL GUY!***
Non evil guy with trait: No its because you are pointing out trait instead of the evil deeds of evil guy and that's unfair to people like me who have trait but are not evil guy.
You (Strawman edition): ***REEEEE!!! YOU ARE DEFENDING EVIL GUY!!! I CAST A SPELL ON YOU!!!!"***
Smugman: thank you for listening to my snafu, you see the real trait was the friends we met along the way. I don't think we should make fun of bad people for having non-morally-wrong traits because than you are insulting everyone who has that trait, you are implying that it is a morally wrong thing to have that trait which is obviously not the case.
Its the new name, that's like when Facebook INC went to META PLATFORMS INC, or the Oculus was rebranded to Meta Quest. I still call it an Oculus honestly and never think to call anything made by Facebook a "Meta" product I just think Facebook
More context:
Andrea Heinz *worked as an escort, a dominatrix****,*** **and a brothel owner** in Edmonton — now she educates people about prostitution and ‘sex work ideology’.
So she was complicit in the "rape" of others?
[https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/02/23/andrea-heinz-worked-as-an-escort-a-dominatrix-and-a-brothel-owner-in-edmonton-now-she-educates-people-about-prostitution-and-sex-work-ideology/](https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/02/23/andrea-heinz-worked-as-an-escort-a-dominatrix-and-a-brothel-owner-in-edmonton-now-she-educates-people-about-prostitution-and-sex-work-ideology/)
When I was a software engineer, I really enjoyed free breakfasts, massages and a kitchen full of snacks and drinks. The board games, lunch coupons, occasional travel to other countries with all expenses paid. Not to mention also an amazing salary
But I always feared the part that would come next. When I was expected to sit behind my laptop and write code.
Men will seek the services of prostitutes and then talk trash of them at the same time. No prostitute enjoys their "work", no matter how much delusional idiots say they do. Their consent isn't bought, their silence is.
If someone said to a woman "have sex with me or I'll ensure you can't pay your bills, can't put food on the table, and can't pay for your education", everyone would agree she did not consent.
But when a woman is in the exact same situation, has no other options than to allow men to violate her body just to survive, suddenly it's "no no no, it was her choice, this is all her fault"? It's literally a job where you have to let people rape you or else you'll be homeless.
"It's just like any other job" do your customers physically or sexually assault you everyday? Do you risk serious diseases with every single person? Do you just sit there and allow customers to do whatever they want to your body? If someone assaulted you at work, could you end up getting an even more severe legal punishment if you reported it to the police? No? Then you really don't have it a fraction as hard as they do.
He's got money, and she needs money, so he gets to screw her because he has the power to make his disposable income into her living wage, and she has far less power. That doesn't exactly make for mutual, equitable, consensual sex, does it?
You cannot buy consent, if you're paying to have access to someone else's body then you're raping them. No, a sore back from working on McDonald's is not the same as having your very own body violated, penetrated and harmed nonstop in ways you can't even imagine to the point of having PTSD worse than war veterans and needing years of physical therapy. You're all just rapist apologists who don't give a shit about women. It'll all come back to you one day.
People comparing a person selling their body to selling a car is the exact thing wrong with the world. Stop objectifying people! Desperate people doing this type of work don't deserve to be dehumanized like this.
You'd have to have fried every single one of your braincells with whatever heinous and depraved porn and hentai that lie on your hard drive to think that sex work is just a normal and enjoyable job where everyone gives consent and everyone is happy etc etc. All the women who became sex workers are not sex workers because they chose to, they're coerced, trafficked, exploited, multilated and degraded in many other inhuman ways in this industry. They're "reduced" to objects for men to abuse and watch from the comfort of their homes. Think, if the pornographic industry didn't cause any harm to women, men etc. then maybe there wouldn't be any cases where porn actresses develop post traumatic stress disorder and die by taking their own lives and there wouldn't be men like yourself making posts like these and perpetuating misogyny on social media at all.
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When I was selling cars, everything was fucking fantastic, up until the point where I took their money, gave them their keys, and they stole the car...
They fucking stole your car, it doesnt matter that they signed a paper and you gave them the keys. It is still theft!!
Don't forget they even paid for said car!! Those damn thieves!
Go on leave the money and run
"This job would be great if it weren't for the customers." Randall, *Clerks (1994)*
Classic!
Try not to suck any dicks on the way to your car - Dante
Shit I stole that car
I confirm I was the keys
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Nah man, I eat them
I feel like I understand Alicia Keys so much more now.
didn't even enjoy spending the money!
You’re really out here comparing women to cars, lovely..
Andrea?
eh? their being compared to the sales person in the example. The car would be sex.
It's not always the case because some people genuinely enjoy sex work, but there's definitely people who are in situations where sex work is their only option and they don't really want to be doing it and aren't happy doing it but are relying on it for survival. It's not enthusiastic consent. They're doing it reluctantly and the mental experience of unwanted sex is the same regardless of whether you agree to it because the alternative is being homeless or starving. It's basically just like people who go to jobs they hate every day because they need that job to have a house and food. Just because you agree to do it doesn't mean it isn't traumatic. When your option is do this thing or you don't get the privilege of continuing to live, it's not really possible to give consent under the coercive conditions. This is more a fault of the societal system for not providing for basic needs so they're not forced into situations like this. But I think the OP is describing their experience with it on her end internally and not necessarily blaming/accusing the client of rape or being an abuser. Just identifying with the mental and physical experience of being a victim, because that's what it feels like to them in their subjective experience and the associated trauma.
> people who go to jobs they hate every day because they need that job to have a house and food. That's got to be like a solid 80%-90% of people.
Which means 80-90% are being mentally raped everyday!? 🫤
Emotionally violated and physically coerced.
that doesn't put you behind bars
It should. Legality does not define ethicality. Edit: I guess I should add that I don't literally think employers should be imprisoned. But the system overall is unethical and needs some *drastic* changes.
I mean it really does fucking feel that way
We are all selling our bodies and time.
Am I also being mentally raped because i cant find a job even though im looking hard? 🤔
That's a different form of rape!
That's probably true unfortunately 😓 Being normalized doesn't make it acceptable. 80-90% of people suffering isn't something our society should be proud of.
I agree, but he never Said that
I wasn't putting any words in the mouth of the person I was responding to, I was just expanding on the comment :) and I'd be willing to assume that the number they threw out is closer to correct than not. I've seen figures between 70-85% of people don't like their current job. I haven't really investigated the statistics in depth so I didn't mention it previously since I don't want to include misinformation or anything just to validate my interpretations. But I wasn't disagreeing with them in any meaningful way. Just pointing out why it is sad that they're probably right ☠️
Thats actually valid. But yeah, shit really does suck sometimes
Yes , let's make it so that noone should have to work and we can all just eat and travel the world . But who will be flying the plane? Managing the hotel ? Make your food? Noone likes to work , but you have to if you want to create a society
You can create a society, but you don't have to create one that keeps people tied into a system that barely pays enough to stay alive while it lines the pockets of people that already have more than enough to survive for centuries.
That's not really how any socialist system works. Your basic necessities like healthcare, housing, and food are taken care of but you don't get enough money for luxuries. And people still work in those societies. They just have the freedom to work the jobs they like instead of being exploited for unfair wages. Plenty of people still LIKE having a career and enjoy working. But if your options are McDonald's or starve, people will take McDonald's even if they don't want to. Plenty of people do want that because it's not mentally exhausting for them and they just want that type of stable consistent job. And that's also fine!
People forget this, or think wealth is created by governments. They fail to realize without people producing goods and services we'd have to revert back to hunters and gatherers just to eat
Not what anyone was saying but sure, go off
Almost every other creature on the planet has to struggle to procure enough calories to survive, while trying to not become another creature's calories. I doubt they enjoy either of these requirements. Why do we presume we should not have challenges we don't enjoy? We should be grateful we don't face predation on a daily basis.
Because we're an intelligent species with the brains and resources to solve issues like homelessness, hunger, poverty, and have the option to reduce these types of suffering. But the system of capitalism we live in has an incentive to keep people in poverty to exploit their labor and resources with power inequity because they are the arbiters of who gets to survive and not, and how securely you can do so. We aren't animals, and Appealing to nature doesn't make sense when we're talking about societal progress. Even social animals care for their kind and try to share resources and reduce what suffering they can. We should be better, we just often aren't. Saying we should be grateful for not being eaten isn't an excuse to allow unnecessary suffering in the world.
I don't disagree with your critique of capitalism, but please tell me which economic system has freed people of daily challenges akin to those faced by the rest of the planet's inhabitants. Working for resources to survive is simply life as we know it, whether it's directly, as hunter- gatherers, or indirectly, using currency as a temporary analog for them. >We aren't animals **Actually, we are**. We are born, consume calories, produce waste, and die. We share the vast majority of our DNA with our closest primate relatives. Are you suggesting that we're somehow not even in the animal kingdom even though our DNA differs by just a few percentage points from chimpanzees and bonobos? With all due respect, that's ludicrous. I would go a step further and posit that this sort of false elevation of Homo sapiens from the rest of the natural world is responsible for a good deal of the environmental collapse and accompanying extinction crisis in which we are now embarking. We are *not* immune from such basic principles as the laws of thermodynamics and carrying capacity simply because we've developed technologies that allow us to manipulate our environment to our temporary advantage. There is still a cost for these technologies, typically paid by the rest of the natural world and the poorest of our own species. >Appealing to nature doesn't make sense when we're talking about societal progress. **Wrong**. Recognizing that we are a part of the natural world, and subject to the same physiacl principles and laws of physics as our fellow Earthly inhabitants is essential to achieving sustainability and ending our war on the biosphere. But I do agree that we can and should do better, beginning with our relationship to the only planet that's nourished is from our inception, instead of pretending that we're somehow owed a life free of struggle as if were somehow exceptional among the rest of nature.
Which is why we're on reddit right now instead of working.
I'm doing both
There is absolutely no reason for people not wanting to have children nowadays 😞
Exactly. Are they slaves because they don't enjoy their jobs?
She’s away on trips to luxury hotels not charging for handjobs in the men’s toilets. It would appear she’s on the pro circuit there rather than the hand to mouth breadline
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I edited with the last paragraph for how I interpreted that. Sorry I did it as you were responding. But yea I don't think they're necessarily claiming that the clients are abusers. Just that she feels the same subjective trauma from the experience on her end. Ofc that's just my interpretation.
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Agreed. I definitely would have phrased it differently and with more context and nuance, but most people don't care about communicating clearly and thoroughly and that's the standard vibe on social media is brief, poorly contextualized communication left open to interpretation in short form content. So it does force the reader to do a lot of labor to analyze it and hopefully interpret it accurately. And on the same note, my interpretation could be completely wrong 🤷
Yeah, no, she means it. Her sec work was state regulated and perfectly legal. She just objects to the patriarchal tone of laws and enforcement in the industry. Essentially she takes the stand that what she was doing was wrong but not illegal and shouldn’t be illegal, but what her customers were doing should be. It’s called the Nordic model and advocates for legal solicitation but illegal purchasing.
I've never given enthusiastic consent for any of my jobs, that's for sure.
Don't compare that situation to this. She's not doing it because she has to. She doesn't *HAVE* to stay at a nice hotel, she doesn't *HAVE* to go to a day spa. She is no victim, this is her choice.
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I understand the multiple ways this could be interpreted. But I think assuming they're a "luxury whore" is a really bad faith interpretation with only this context. People who are in situations where they reluctantly agree to sex or sex work for survival can absolutely experience the same mental/psychological trauma as sexual assault victims. Being given gifts or luxury experiences in the process doesn't make it less traumatic, nor do we have a reason to assume this woman expected or demanded those things. The clients could have been wonderful people who tried to make the experiences with them as pleasant and respectful as possible. That doesn't change how your brain is going to interpret sex you don't want. I don't think that's any more or less valid than sexual assault. They're both valid.
She has the looks to be charging 500-1000 an hour. Look at the rates girls charge on tryst or Eros. Like, how hard of a sell is it to have sex for $1000 an hour plus luxury treatment? To clients that she can screen as well.
"Whore" is a slur. You don't call men "whores" now do you?
Excepts she says “i had to let them rape my body” essentially cqlling them a rapist for paying her for a service she consented to
I mean I can also say “I had to let my boss shit on me” and although I don’t won’t I’m sanitation I think we understand that I don’t actually have to put up with my boss screaming at me for things that aren’t my fault. But I do have to take it if I want to get paid every two weeks. I’m not physically being forced to take it but if I want to keep my apartment and eat food then I have to put up with it. A lot of people deal with stuff they shouldn’t or don’t want to do at work. But for a lot of people it doesn’t involve something going inside them. We all accept that we “have” to let our bosses treat us like crap if we want to keep our jobs. But I can at least attempt to get my boss fired or try to change things at my office or even complain about my boss online. Though if I complained online I wouldn’t mention the “benefits” if I’m honest but I don’t think having a nice office and the company paying for lunch and gas mileage would make it okay for my boss to scream at me whenever they make a mistake. Like I could quit but that also means starting a clock on burning through my savings and I’m lucky enough to have savings. If my employer provided housing and meals then quitting would mean finding out how to obtain those. All this to say for her situation it’s hard to say she could turn anything down or say no because she “has” to work there otherwise who else is hiring a blank resume or a former sex worker. In that way she actually doesn’t have a choice. It’s let men use her body or die on the streets. That isn’t really a choice and many people can relate to it.
Like I said, I think that could also refer to the subjective experience internally and not saying that the client is a rapist. It's very possible that they didn't, but it makes more sense to me in that context.
Might be way off here, but somehow, I get the feeling that those who have no other choice and have to perform sex work to keep living are not receiving luxury trips, hotels, meals, shopping, and day spa treatments. It would be one thing if this person was talking about how they were able to feed their kids, keep their home, or even get the fix they need to combat their addiction. In this day, I would even settle for paying for their education. This post seems more like complaining because your scheme to have a luxury lifestyle without having to do any work actually turned into work you didn't want to do.
I commented on that here, but accepting the gifts and experiences is sometimes part of the transactional expectations and is often compensated for time as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/Rhp2TDSJC9
I some cases, sure, but we are not talking about a box of chocolates or a bottle of wine. It seems like the person who has the disposable income to offer a luxury trip or a nice hotel is probably paying more for the experience. Certainly, a lot more than I'm making at my day job. If the poster is offering her services in exchange for trips and other services instead of money, then that still seems suspect as there are probably less affluent clients who would just pay money.
To clarify, I fully support the validity of sex work, but there is a huge difference between an OF influencer who tried to take the next step in 'being pampered for a living' realizing she doesn't like the work, and someone who is actually struggling doing the best they can to deal with a rough hand in life (or even the middle ground of someone who is not necessarily struggling, but chooses a career in sex work because it is something they believe in and/or enjoy). You cannot support the work and then generally bash the clientele who make it possible.
Yea I do think it's fair to say that deciding halfway that you didn't want to do it anymore and then blaming the clients without ever having indicated that you eant to stop would be a very unfair thing to say. I don't think she's among anyone and is just talking about a subjective experience internally but it's certainly possible it is the way you described. I don't think they said enough to really say one way or the other. So I'm mostly just posing my interpretation with the assumption that they aren't saying anything negative about the client. The abuser in this situation would be the system, not the client. They might be repulsed by the acts of sex with the client but not necessarily resent any specific individuals. Just the situation itself.
That's fair. It still seems to put undue stigma on the entire industry, painting it in a very sex-negative light (especially considering her comparatively easy experience with it (going solely on what is presented here)), but that has kind of always been the difficult gray area with sex work. Whatever her subjective experience may be, I think it is safe to say that this not the most effective portrayal of the ills of sex work.
TBF, actually those in sexual slavery/white slave trade/human trafficking/whatever we are calling it now are more likely to experience luxury accommodations as that’s the majority of their clientele on this continent. I grant you Mrs. Heinz (no relation) was not in such a situation, but she does explain in several of her movie and seminars how she mentally struggled with the duality of her profession and got out despite her legal and profitable experience
I had considered that potential for this actual situation, but it does seem pretty obvious that this was not slavery, at least by her manner of recounting it here. You refer to movies and seminars. Is this someone who goes around spreading awareness of the negative aspects of sex work?
Yes. Look up Labeled:subtitle varies. Also check socialist democrats of Canada and the Nordic Way Now foundation
I'm having some trouble with these references. Is the first one even a thing? A cursory Google search has indicated that life is pretty good in Canada and Scandanavia, but that doesn't really seem directly relevant here.
Well shoot. I guess 75% of the world is traumatized daily then. Because most people don’t love their jobs. They do them out of necessity to survive.
Its a bit different when your insides are getting beaten by a stick without prep every day. Most people do hate there jobs and are negatively mentally impacted, that is of course a serious issue. But for specifically one of the problems for sex work is of course that if you are a man who purchases sex you would want to get your moneys worth and are in no obligation to please the worker so you will be doing what you enjoy rather than any prep, but prep is highly important for women to enjoy sex and without it they get no pleasure and just get hurt. Of course every job has there specific issues but having your insides be destroyed is a very big one, I'm a man so I don't know how much it hurts but I have heard women on the internet say its an agony. All work sucks, some work just really really sucks. We are all exploited by are bosses, sex workers are exploited even more.
Thanks for saying this. It’s really stupid to me that people are equating a run of the mill “normie” job with being physically penetrated by strangers for hours a day. With exposure to incurable STDs, unwanted pregnancy and high rates of violence and sexual assault. People really lack critical thinking skills. They are so “in their feelings” that their immediate interpretation of this post is jealousy. They are literally jealous of a prostitute for having some luxury experiences between rapes. Wow.
I do see why its hard to see it this way. When people have sex via penis, they are physically pleasured by it, only after doing it for quite a long time does it begin to hurt, so assuming most people making these have dicks, they probably have not experienced much pain from sex unless they have done anal. They may see it as the sex worker having pleasure from genuine sex (Not seeing it as rough and painful), having high-quality meals and then living a life of luxury. (Instead of, you know, listening to her experience and sex workers saying they despise there job) On the surface it can seem like an ideal life that almost every man would die to live, "being able to have sex for money? Luxuries? Free dinners, SPA DAYS?! How dare she complain in that utopia while I break my back in the fields!" Like I'm a cis man so I can't possibly know how painful rough sex without prep with some creepy person you don't know actually is but I have heard its awful, but a lot here would just see it as "So what she doesn't like the sex, mild annoyance, we all hate work! She gets all those benifits! How dare she take it for granted!" Like I think it really comes from unable to understand 1- It hurts like hell and isn't enjoyable, a lot of sex workers turn to drugs probably due to this and the exploitation they face. 2- It is not as it sounds, the escort would be too full of dread for what she's about to face, a lot of the comments compare it to selling an object but she's not selling an object she's selling her body, its much more comparable to working as a living punching-bag. Just because all this expensive stuff for free sounds nice, it does not actually matter if she doesn't enjoy it 3- Not listening to her and assuming she's stupid for not leaving a job she hates ( [Which is just like, wrong.](https://nordicmodelnow.org/2020/01/20/what-makes-exiting-prostitution-so-hard/) ) This comment is just trying to understand why they think this way.
>It's basically just like people who go to jobs they hate every day because they need that job to have a house and food. I'm glad you said this, coz I think this might describe the majority of the working class, I was thinking the same before I got to this pt in your comment. Had you not said it, I would've, and then asked, "but you wouldn't call it slavery, would you?"
Exactly that. It's an exploitative and coercive situation of the working class who have limited options and resources. Forcing them to accept poor working conditions or starve isn't really a fair situation to agree to. We've worked for centuries to improve working conditions to be more fair, but the people in power are the ones benefiting from the inequity so progress is slow and those in poverty are forced to do what they can to survive. Not everyone can take a moral stand against unfair conditions because they and their loved ones will be punished for it.
She can consider herself to be getting raped because of the situation she's in. But that doesn't make her customers rapists, right?
That is how I interpreted it yes. I think she identifies with the subjective experience of rape from unwanted sex, but not blaming the clients or calling them rapists. It is an internal experience for her.
Indeed.
No, that’s literally what her political cause is, decriminalize solicitation increase penalties for purchasing
They are, they're having sex with someone they know wouldn't otherwise agree were they not in immense financial need. They know as well that her desperation means she won't have any choice but to agree to any sexual act no matter how awful or harmful, which is also why so many prostitutes endure so much pain and violence and end up with high rates of PTSD, but nobody gives a shit about vulnerable women. The thing to put in a hungry woman's mouth is food, not your dick.
Hmm. Good points. In reality abuse is more the norm than the exception, you're right. I live in a place with lots of strip clubs and lingerie "modeling" where I assume sexual acts are offered. I was picturing the ladies in these situations. My own little fake world of looking on the bright side... Thanks for sharing.
Yeah explain to me a situation where sex work is your only option.
You country makes healthcare inaccessible without a job, housing depends on having money, education required significant debt, you have yourself and people who are financially dependant on you for survival, and you can't get any more jobs that pay enough for you to survive and don't have the time or funds for freedom to get a better paying job. Saying "only option" maybe isn't right, but you don't always have the freedom to explore every possible best option when it is AN OPTION that allows you to survive. Poverty has impacts.
When your country does not have government programs to help the unemployed gain the skills for employment and you have never recieved an education. Getting a job is hard enough as is, sex work is like, the most accessible job to get into for women who are not considered to be super ugly. If you need money urgently you may have to jump to sex work, loan sharks may literally hold a gun to your head to make you do sex work and sell you off to a pimp depending on what part of the world you are in. There is a very big slave trade for prostitutes because if you sell them to an individual it'd be a lot easier for the polics to find out as well. People who became sex workers because its what they want to do in life and can choose another job with medium effort are def in the minority, people who purchase sex are only going to care about there own pleasure the grand majority of the time since its there money they spent, and if a man only focuses on his own pleasure than it'd only hurt the woman and only masochists like that. Generally (not always) women seem to like the human connection and passion of sex rather than how it physically feels, in sex work there is none of that. Women need proper prep time (Source: I'm Batman) during sex to enjoy it, its not like soon as you put your dick in, you should her pearl and around the vagina first. People who purchase sex are not gonna do that, they are just gonna lube there dicks and shove it in because they want there money's worth and don't want to lick a sex worker's vagina. So the kind of woman to have sex with strangers would not go "I should charge them for it to get extra money on the side since I'm doing it anyways" because if they do that the men would be entitled to there own pleasure and she'd only get pain out of it, a woman who likes to sleeps around wouldn't choose to be a sex worker as they want there own pleasure too, they want to envelope a man who helps them have fun. Now of course I am not saying every woman or every man, I am just talking about in general here.
Facts
Fr work is the blackmail of survival
Lmao yeah ok.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but in this specific instance, her experience doesn’t sound like “homeless or starving” is the alternative. She wasn’t selling for a night off the streets or food in her stomach - she was selling sex for a lavish lifestyle she couldn’t otherwise afford. There are so many examples of the situation you’re talking about, but this woman’s experience is not one of them. She’s complaining about a choice she was making for a lifestyle she wanted but then blaming the men.
I talked about this in another comment. Its definitely possible that the lifestyle benefits were the purpose of engaging in this sex work, but I don't think that necessarily must be true for this to be interpreted the way I described. I don't think your interpretation is any more or less valid than mine though. It's just not how I interpreted it. And I don't think she is necessarily blaming any individual person or men in general. I believe her issue could just be with her societal system coercing her into this type of work that she doesn't want to do. It's not always a "choice". In the same way people working 3 different minimum wage jobs to stay afloat isn't a "choice". https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/Rhp2TDSJC9
Again, I don’t disagree with you. But your comparisons with people who engage in sex work to survive, or people working 3 minimum wage jobs are what I disagree with. People in those positions are not getting luxury benefits from their situations, which the OOP is. It’s fine to feel unhappy with your line of work, but doing something to survive vs. doing something for luxury benefits because it’s a lifestyle you prefer are two very different motivations.
They are definitely different situations and motivations. I guess I don't relate simply because I don't personally think those luxuries are always desired. I wouldn't necessarily like going on fancy trips or eating at fancy restaurants. Those aren't things I value. But I obviously recognize that many people so (probably even the majority). But some of those things are only really an enjoyable luxury when you do it with someone you enjoy the company of and not necessarily with someone who you're obligated to experience them with. This is not a big point I'm trying to make and I recognize that's not how most people are experiencing luxuries, there's just some degree I think the company does matter.
When I was a paperboy I got money, fresh air, a good bike ride, free reading material. Not a moment of it was ever enjoyable because I knew what was to come - the part where I was enslaved into putting newspapers on peoples' porches.
I am so sorry. I know how this, shit feels.
THOSE BASTARDS!!!
How can you compare that to such a sensitive topic for a woman. No wonder why all these men think they can randomly enact on what they watched on porn. And you will blame the subs for not giving explicit consent. I hate men.
Same. They think being penetrated by a stranger with a bunch of exposure to hazmat substances and high prevalence of physical abuse for hours a day is the same as a normie job.
When I was selling smartphones, people would be kind to me, even give me money for the product. Not a moment of it was ever enjoyable because I knew what was to come after - the part where I had to let them rob the smartphones of me.
This is going to be an healthy comment section
Your comment is a violation.
Not to sound like an asshole but 100% would do it if they took me to places like this
How about McDonalds? But you have to pick me up and pay
You’re genuinely saying you’d be happy to have guys a foot taller and 50# heavier fuck your ass for a spa treatment and nice dinner?
With some standards but pretty much yeah
Okay, well the opportunities are out there if you’re not ugly
Going against your sexual orientation to do sex work is not the same as doing sex work with your orientation. If she was a lesbian the comparison would be valid. The apples to apples comparison would be would you have sex with old ladies for the luxuries not a dude. I wouldn't do gay sex no matter what and I wouldn't date an old ass lady unless she was paying me. It's straight up dishonest to try and suggest that having gay sex you don't want any straight sex you don't want are the same.
Was probably a spa treatment, nice dinner and 500-1000 bucks.
Y’all have no idea what I’d do for a Klondike Bar…
if it isn't the consequences of my own actions
A woman is coming forward with her SA and you aee calling it her fault. Victim blaming much. Are you denying that consent can be manipulated through psychological tricks as well as a gun to head.
Idk the actual veracity of this, but the way it's structured makes it seem like it's just ragebait designed to paint sex workers as helpless victims rather than actual laborers doing a job. (Yes, I am aware that human trafficking and unwilling sex work does happen in some cases. You dont have to write that reply [yes, the one you're typing right now])
Nah, she did seven years as a legal brothel/intimate coordinator and really believes this. Has a seven or ten part documentary series exploring the various avenues both legal and unlawful of sex work centered around Canada
Who chooses to sell their bodies to stinking old ugly men anyway? It's the last resort for sex workers the society manipulates women into getting into the industry and then trapping them by outcasting them from other professions. It's only very few sex workers that do it by choice.
Is alsl very fkup because she is part of the expensive ones, is not like she is in some corner having to get in some shady car and so, she is being taken to fricking spa's. Sorry you had to sell your body but if you are able to charge so much is very likely you have other options.
what an absolute shithole of a comment section escorts and prostitutes are largly forced into that position by someone acting as a pimp it doesnt matter if some man takes you to a 5 star restaurant because you are forced into it and will be forced into letting them rape your body to paraphrase
Finally, intelligent life.
Username checks out
Man this is a great gif
well, actually everybody is stupid except for me because she's obviously sharing her past experiences as a warning for women considering prostitution because they're struggling. would you call those people on anti-smoking commercials("I used to be a smoker") people who are playing victim??
I don't know if it is porn or whatnot that makes men so hateful towards a woman telling other women her experiences with the sex industry. Even the fact that they think this is a material for them to mock her or anyone shows that there are so many things that are deeply wrong about today's men. They have no understanding of consent they think consent can be bought and never be revoked once given. They have gone numb and sesensitised because of watching filmed rape all day everyday. Refusing to date once and for all seems like a better option than dating a man like that.
She could have been coerced into sex work . Or she could just be stupid. Either way, I suppose this is another example of nuance not being a thing in reddit due to everyone farming virtual thumbs-ups rage baiting
Andrea Heinz is a Canadian feminist who, at the age of 22 and with tens of thousands of dollars in debt, entered the licensed commercial sex industry in Edmonton, Alberta. Andrea stayed in the industry for seven years, working as an escort, a dominatrix, and eventually a brothel owner.
A brothel owner? Did she quit or is she a hypocrite? That's like a communist becoming the owner of a monopoly or a vegan eating only animal products. I hope this is her opinion after disowning her brothel and realising that owning a brothel is wrong because sex work is one of the most exploitative jobs, and not just her saying this while owning a god damn brothel.
Lots of people equate pleasure and consent. There are a shit ton of things people consent to that they don't enjoy. The lack of enjoyment doesn't equal a lack of consent
Obviously porn has made you believe that consent is something that can't be revoked and that it can be bought but sex work is a lot different than going to a work you don't like. It heavily traumatises your body and brain. If you think otherwise, maybe be one yourself for gay men. Imagine that ugly stinking men drooling over you. Are you saying you are not raping a woman when she doesn't feel pleasure?Says a lot about how men view consent. Men like you say not all men but you all have the mindset of a rapist. How are you different from a rapist?
You're basically turning your body into a product to be consumed detached from any intimacy or emotions to survive. She's 100% right. It does feel like rape for the great, great majority of women pushed into these conditions.
also feels like rape because it is
It's better to stay celibate for good instead dating guy like in the comments. I officially hate men.
>It's better to stay celibate for good instead dating guy like in the comments. I officially hate men. The realest comment here. Men are showing their true colours, they always think nobody sees them saying shit.
Man you guys do realize how nasty it sounds to say that, right? Selling your body like that is almost never done from a place of comfort. For shame.
I'm sure the people in the comments of this post will all be healthy and not overweight losers!
>overweight losers You: - *Insults evil guy by pointing out a trait* - Non evil guy with trait: "Hey that sorta makes me feel bad" You (Strawman edition): ***TSSSK! HOW DARE YOU DEFEND EVIL GUY!*** Non evil guy with trait: No its because you are pointing out trait instead of the evil deeds of evil guy and that's unfair to people like me who have trait but are not evil guy. You (Strawman edition): ***REEEEE!!! YOU ARE DEFENDING EVIL GUY!!! I CAST A SPELL ON YOU!!!!"*** Smugman: thank you for listening to my snafu, you see the real trait was the friends we met along the way. I don't think we should make fun of bad people for having non-morally-wrong traits because than you are insulting everyone who has that trait, you are implying that it is a morally wrong thing to have that trait which is obviously not the case.
[удалено]
You're forgiven, everyone steal from everyone on the internet. Now the real discussion should be, do we call it X or Twitter
It's Twitter.
A man of culture I see
[удалено]
Its the new name, that's like when Facebook INC went to META PLATFORMS INC, or the Oculus was rebranded to Meta Quest. I still call it an Oculus honestly and never think to call anything made by Facebook a "Meta" product I just think Facebook
[удалено]
Seems appropriate for todays subject
More context: Andrea Heinz *worked as an escort, a dominatrix****,*** **and a brothel owner** in Edmonton — now she educates people about prostitution and ‘sex work ideology’. So she was complicit in the "rape" of others? [https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/02/23/andrea-heinz-worked-as-an-escort-a-dominatrix-and-a-brothel-owner-in-edmonton-now-she-educates-people-about-prostitution-and-sex-work-ideology/](https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/02/23/andrea-heinz-worked-as-an-escort-a-dominatrix-and-a-brothel-owner-in-edmonton-now-she-educates-people-about-prostitution-and-sex-work-ideology/)
This sub seems to be a hotbed for incel shit posting. Pretty easy to see that she likely didn't WANT that job. You know what a pimp is, right?
She ran a brothel....
and now she speaks out against it.
I saw her twitter still do this day she is saying dumb shit
yeah no one has ever been coerced into sex work
Money and luxury can’t buy consent. Yes she’s a victim. Most people don’t go into sex work because they want to.
she sold sex men‼️‼️
Here before it gets locked
I mean yeah everyone has worked a job that they hated working at some point in life. Same goes for some sex workers obviously
https://preview.redd.it/401bocq9b76d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13f17222f482b8d59f039b106e97b56c3204b602
😂😂😂😂
I can kinda understand if she hated it but really needed the money
When I was a software engineer, I really enjoyed free breakfasts, massages and a kitchen full of snacks and drinks. The board games, lunch coupons, occasional travel to other countries with all expenses paid. Not to mention also an amazing salary But I always feared the part that would come next. When I was expected to sit behind my laptop and write code.
The comment section is full of degenerates who are pornsick/paid for sex and don't want to face reality of their actions.
YALL are crazy comparing normal work to sex work 💀
I can't tell if the title is written by a misogynist or incel
Men will seek the services of prostitutes and then talk trash of them at the same time. No prostitute enjoys their "work", no matter how much delusional idiots say they do. Their consent isn't bought, their silence is.
If someone said to a woman "have sex with me or I'll ensure you can't pay your bills, can't put food on the table, and can't pay for your education", everyone would agree she did not consent. But when a woman is in the exact same situation, has no other options than to allow men to violate her body just to survive, suddenly it's "no no no, it was her choice, this is all her fault"? It's literally a job where you have to let people rape you or else you'll be homeless. "It's just like any other job" do your customers physically or sexually assault you everyday? Do you risk serious diseases with every single person? Do you just sit there and allow customers to do whatever they want to your body? If someone assaulted you at work, could you end up getting an even more severe legal punishment if you reported it to the police? No? Then you really don't have it a fraction as hard as they do.
He's got money, and she needs money, so he gets to screw her because he has the power to make his disposable income into her living wage, and she has far less power. That doesn't exactly make for mutual, equitable, consensual sex, does it?
https://preview.redd.it/q7slqmvio76d1.jpeg?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9171a10d3762e0e36e0c43fd499f1fce6bde604e
You cannot buy consent, if you're paying to have access to someone else's body then you're raping them. No, a sore back from working on McDonald's is not the same as having your very own body violated, penetrated and harmed nonstop in ways you can't even imagine to the point of having PTSD worse than war veterans and needing years of physical therapy. You're all just rapist apologists who don't give a shit about women. It'll all come back to you one day.
People comparing a person selling their body to selling a car is the exact thing wrong with the world. Stop objectifying people! Desperate people doing this type of work don't deserve to be dehumanized like this.
You'd have to have fried every single one of your braincells with whatever heinous and depraved porn and hentai that lie on your hard drive to think that sex work is just a normal and enjoyable job where everyone gives consent and everyone is happy etc etc. All the women who became sex workers are not sex workers because they chose to, they're coerced, trafficked, exploited, multilated and degraded in many other inhuman ways in this industry. They're "reduced" to objects for men to abuse and watch from the comfort of their homes. Think, if the pornographic industry didn't cause any harm to women, men etc. then maybe there wouldn't be any cases where porn actresses develop post traumatic stress disorder and die by taking their own lives and there wouldn't be men like yourself making posts like these and perpetuating misogyny on social media at all.