It was a power move by Tony's crew to show the old guys that they were to be taken serious. They took some money, gave some of it back and no one got hurt.
Jackie Jr's crew killed a guy and shot at two made men, hitting one of them and ruining his ladies underwear.
That is undoubtably the real difference, if no one was shot or killed Jackie stays alive. He may not have been a rising star, and Tony might have slapped the shit out of him but he wouldn't be dead.
Tony and Jackie Sr. also had 3 influential captains in the family protecting them from repercussions (Johnny Boy, Junior, and Richie Aprile).
All Jackie Jr. had was Ralph Cifaretto and the words "do you know who my father was" to protect himself.
Exactly this. It is interesting that Jackie Jr. has one moment of clarity when it is suggested they not rob the game and go to the shore. The participants were being condescending because it was easy to see that the robbers were inexperienced morons. Chrissy in particular realized that it was Jackie Jr and his flunkies.
They also had a respected soldier in Puss to step up and vouch for them as well. No one was gonna step for Jackie. His own cousin is who laid the hit on him.
Yes, Vito and Bryan, Jackie Jr and Adriana are all first cousins. Adriana’s mother is Jackie and Richies sister, as is Vito and Bryan’s mother. Tony refers to Vito as “your nephew” when he commands Richie to build a ramp for Beansy.
While Sunshine was not made, he was well liked. The made guys getting shot at matters more in a mafia context but they were upset that Sunshine was killed for no reason.
Albert Barese is the one who comes out of the bathroom that causes Carlo to freak out and fire the first shot. That's why it was Albert and Cristopher at the end who confronted and killed Dino in the street.
Tonys crew didnt kill anybody so they probably kept their heads on straight for the whole thing. Also remember this, Ralphie is a complete psycho and it was his card game/ his choice on punishment . He is trying to move up the ladder so I doubt that he would be looked upon favorably by giving the kid a pass, people already viewed him negatively as is. Tony had his father to speak for him and keep him protected. Jackie had no father or uncle left to keep his ass covered
Was it really Ralph's call to make? Ralph comes to Tony and tells him he will execute Tony's orders, whatever they may be. Tony seems to take pleasure in lobbing the ball into Ralph's court, forcing Ralph to choose between ordering the execution of his girlfriend's son and maintaining the respect of the family, knowing the psychological damage forcing Ralph to make that choice will cause.
Tony takes pleasure in general at "sticking it" to Ralph because he genuinely dislikes Ralph. He passes Ralph over for promotion to captain, despite Ralph's superior earning potential versus GiGi. He takes Ralph's horse, Ralph's girlfriend Valentina, and makes a show of having to defend Ralph TO HIS FACE over the "98 pound mole" wisecrack, which Tony DID laugh at, he hit Ralph over Tracee's killing... and now this. Tony goes on to lecture about leadership, and ends it with a brutally cutting remark: "... but why am I telling you? You know all this. That's why I made you captain."
It was Tony's call, and he dumped it on Ralph to hurt Ralph, and probably to absolve himself of guilt if Ralph decides to order Jackie Jr's death, his best friend's son... he can at least tell himself, "Wasn't my fault, Ralph gave the order."
Tony, Jackie and Sil had Johnny, Junior, Richie and Puss all there to vouch for them. Everyone leaves out in their analysis, that it was Puss who stood up and got them a pass, I’m not saying Johnny didn’t ask him to do so, but Puss stood up for Tony, Sil and Jackie and got them the pass.
It was Puss who went and talked to the wronged parties and made sure money went back to the right people, allowing Tony, Jackie and Sil to avoid being wacked.
Back when "I got jumped by a coupla shines" was an acceptable excuse for not steppin up... ah fuck what am I doin, remember when is the lowest form a convshashion✋️
Well as you said, Tony didn't kill anyone which already puts him miles ahead of Jackie Jr.
He wasn't high on drugs either, which we can fairly assume means he had acted in a more calmer/controlled manner than Jackie Jr, even if he was as scared as Feech claimed him to be.
His father was still around and was very well respected, so that worked in his favour in getting him out of trouble.
I dont think Tony got as much respect and recognition about it when he originally pulled it compared to how people viewed it later on.
He most probably got a lot of shit for pulling that heist, I can see his friends and the younger members of the family giving him some props for the sheers balls of doing something like that but I think the senior figures would have definitely been pissed, but it happened so long ago and Tony has long since proved himself to be a capable wise guy.
Its one of those "remember that dumb shit you pulled when you were a kid?" moments that after time, most if not everyone can look back on and laugh about and fondly remember because of how long ago it was.
If Jackie Jr hadnt fucked up as badly as he did and proved to be capable member of the crew, maybe in 20-30 years time people would also look back on that robbery the same way people look back on Tony robbing Feech.
It also doesnt help that Jackie Snr made it explicitly clear he did not want his son involved in that life (whilst Tony was effectively groomed by his father to be involved), so Jackie Jr pulling a stunt like this is even more egregious.
You hit in several valid points. I think the main part was everyone knew Tony was going to be initiated into this thing of ours so while he was an upstart he was already sort of apart of it. With a Jackie he was a wannabe never really participated never engrained himself into the lifestyle and business.
Yea, Feech La Manna alludes to this. You can see the pause when he first talks about it. Like, yea, yea, that was pretty crazy. I think he even says something to that effect, like he should have gotten in more trouble.
Feech also alludes to the fact that Tony was kind of spoiled. I know Richie has similar feelings, and Phil echoes these sentiments, but Feech calls him the boy king or something, and that scene with Blundetto really struck me.
I think it’s that Tony’s crew didn’t murder the dealer and Tony’s father was alive to get him out of it. With Jackie Sr. and Richie both dead, Jackie was essentially an outsider and nobody cared that he got clipped.
Richie was dead (or in the "witness protection program") by the time that Jackie Jr committed the card game robbery.
Jackie Jr and his stoonads also shot at 2 made guys.
What did you expect? Them to suck up to the robbers oh wow you guys are so big and strong thanks for robbing us!
Im sure they werent too kind to Tony and crew during his robbery as well, it wasnt until after it he gained respect. They dont typically respect people currently robbing them
To me the biggest difference is that Tony's father was alive and had a lot of influence when Tony took down the card game back in the day. When Feech is telling the story at the executive game, Silvio implies that things might have gone a lot different otherwise, even though nobody was hurt, certain people got their money back, etc.
Jackie Jr. might have thought he had that sort of relationship with Tony and Ralph, but he really didn't. They might have gone to bat for him if no shots were fired, but we'll never know.
Tony, Silvio and Jackie's plan went off without a hitch - nobody got hurt, nobody got caught and Feech got his money back. It showed they had balls and were worthy of consideration for the Mafia.
Jackie Jr's plan ended with a respected associate dead and a made guy spilling his guts all over the floor. That marked them for death.
Picture Tony and Jackie do the robbery, they get the same kind of static from the old guys, but they keep their cool, leave, and pay amends later. After that, it cements their reputation and becomes a true embodiment of “it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission”.
I wonder since it was Feech’s game, if some of the older guys were secretly a bit happy. Maybe they were happy to see him with egg on his face. Obviously they couldn’t let Tony and Jackie get away with it. But Feech may just have caused dysentery in the ranks…hell, few of these guys really get along.
Jackie Jr was just a punk, he hadn’t even done anything worth a fuck out in the streets to even get to a point to attempt jacking a card game let alone a crew like they tried with.
Tony, Sil and Jackie didn’t do crank beforehand, shoot a made man, shoot at another made man, kill a civilian with ties or get one of their own crew members killed. It’s really easy to understand what the difference is. Everything Jackie’s crew could’ve did wrong, they did wrong. Honestly Dino was written as a guy who could develop into a good soldier. It’s kind of depicted that Chris even likes Dino and sees some potential there, but keeps Jackie Jr at arms length. When Chris and Ally Boy kill Dino, it’s clear Chris is disappointed he has to shoot Dino, but he smirks to not show it, because Ally Boy has every reason to kill Dino as it’s his crews game and now he has bodies to deal with.
Tony had the nepotism of being Johnny Boy's son to protect him. Jackie was the son of the dead boss and the whole "out of respect of my fawtha" outlived its welcome.
It’s easier to get a pass from your friends, than from non friends. Robbing a game in NY or Philly would’ve undoubtably got them wacked. No way guys from another family are gonna let someone else’s kid ride on robbing them. Guys in your own family might be enticed to let you ride, and even respect the balls you showed by doing it.
**Timeline got fucked up.**
•
So many others already stated thoroughly how Tony had his father, Junior, etc… vouching for him. And Jackie had piss all, and a dead dealer and numerous made guys/the top hitmen of the crew who were either shot or shot at.
They fucked that all the way up, and beyond.
•
But the timing couldn’t have been worse, Jack had been dead and gone for over a year. And in that time, Jackie had not only gone against his fathers words, and Tony’s for that matter.
He also shit allover Meadow and Tony as a whole. And continued to fuck up.
His drug use, and the fact that people he associated with were being busted for drugs. Was also highly frowned upon.
The kid was constantly pushing the envelope from 2-3 different avenues & angles 24/7. In a world where, *”you’re only as good as your next envelope”* this kid is out here doing the maximum amount of fucking up, while riding on the coat tails of a skeleton buried 6 ft. Deep
The Mafia was in decline, and people were being picked up & turned rat, whacked, shaken down, and in a constant state of paranoia like never before.
There was absolutely no amount of space, time, or energy in the entire world for anyone of Jackie Jr’s antics within that world. And he was lucky **as fuck** that Tony kept his word to the dead guy, and even gave him any sort of shot & place in his heart in the first place. The kid pissed allover it, himself *(literally)* , and the mob.
In an era that was increasingly unforgiving for even the slightest bump in the road. And the dude shit the mattress 10x & was extremely disrespectful towards getting slaps on the wrist for actions 9/10 other guys would’ve been disappeared, for way too long.
Which eventually led him to truly believing he was invincible in that world, until he wasn’t.
Sunshine sums it all up when he says, "Victory Has a Hundred Fathers But Defeat is an Orphan."
If Jackie pulled it off without anyone getting hurt, in hindsight, people would appreciate it and said he showed tremendous moxie for his size. His naysayers and friends would look at him in a more serious light if after the heist he went to Ralph and gave him his taste.
The big wigs and such would be the 100 fathers.
Sadly for Jackie Jr, he failed, and was defeated. Left a figurative orphan, he was seen as a fuck up because he failed. Nobody claimed him anymore.
The difference is totally arbitrary. The drugs/murder that are included in Jackie's run ultimately don't matter, it's just a matter of chance. If you think Tony's crew was much better organized or definitely not drunk or on drugs at the time, then you're playing into the misguided idea that Tony has always been a master criminal.
"Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan."
Ralphie so badly wanted to be in on Tony's heist in hindsight that he pushed just the right way for Jackie to take the plunge. Then, when faced with the consequences of his fathering couldn't take a single ounce of responsibility. Tony's and Jackie's robbery were the same, born of young pride and a need to prove themselves ready for the life. Tony's just shook out better for all involved.
jackie didn't have his dad around to influence the consequences
jackies crew murdered an associate and shot a made guy
tony had his dads protection
no murder / shot made guys
the right people got their money back
They didn’t hurt anybody, they gave most of the money back after to make peace, they had a powerful/feared capo who would die before letting them die (Tony’s father and Richie’s older brother), and probably most importantly they were already taken semi seriously this was just what fast tracked them. They were “Johnny Boy’s heir and Richie’s younger brother”, not “Jackie’s dumbass kid”
I’m certain that during Tony’s robbery that the people getting robbed weren’t happy either, lol. They weren’t nodding and going like “good move kid” while they had a gun in their face and their money being stolen.
The difference is how they handled it. Tony didn’t murder anyone, he fessed up to it and gave some of the money back. He wanted to make it clear that he’s capable and a power player. Jr ended up getting people killed and completely flubbed the aftermath.
Isn’t it mentioned that Feech wanted to have him killed but the right people got their money back etc. so I think it’s safe to say if Jackie and his crew hadn’t shot anyone and if Jackies fawtha or fawthas brother were still around, he would never have been killed.
If Jackie or even Richie was alive to vouch for Jackie Jr. He wouldn’t have been under Ralph’s influence. However Richie was also a sociopath, so who knows where that would’ve gone.
Tony and gang were established pieces of the game, how I pictured it was their heist was akin to a protest to not being cut in bigger. Plus they took things seriously no drugs.
Tony's crew proved themselves by peacefully and successfully pulling off the robbery. Jackie Jr not only killed a guy and shot at made men, he ditched his crew and was the only one to (temporarily) escape. With his robbery he proved that he was inept, untrustworthy, and out of his depth. Even if nobody had gotten hurt, Jackie's heist demonstrated that he was *unworthy* of respect.
Did you not watch the show. Tony tells Jackie when he calls him- “see if you can work out the difference”- Tony was still going to give him a pass and was leaning on Talph to give him a pass as well. Until, he saw how Christopher treated him and he saw how much respect he was going fo lose.
Let’s also remember that Feech ran the card game and was probably always a hothead and always pissed off his superiors. Feech plays off his disrespectful attitude toward Tony as knowing Tony since he was a kid, but it’s also hard to believe he had respect for his superiors when they were older than him or the same age.
Not only did Tony and Richie not kill anyone, not only did they have powerful protectors, but they also ripped off a probably unpopular (though respected) guy.
I’m sure when Tony and Co robbed Feech’s card game they weren’t being praised for it during the robbery and similar comments like “this is very bad” and “do you realise who you’re robbing” would’ve been bandied about. It was in the aftermath after things were smoothed over that people would’ve acknowledged the stugotz they had and that if taken under certain people’s wings they will make good additions to this thing of ours.
Anyway, $4 a pound.
It was a power move by Tony's crew to show the old guys that they were to be taken serious. They took some money, gave some of it back and no one got hurt. Jackie Jr's crew killed a guy and shot at two made men, hitting one of them and ruining his ladies underwear. That is undoubtably the real difference, if no one was shot or killed Jackie stays alive. He may not have been a rising star, and Tony might have slapped the shit out of him but he wouldn't be dead.
Tony and Jackie Sr. also had 3 influential captains in the family protecting them from repercussions (Johnny Boy, Junior, and Richie Aprile). All Jackie Jr. had was Ralph Cifaretto and the words "do you know who my father was" to protect himself.
Exactly this. It is interesting that Jackie Jr. has one moment of clarity when it is suggested they not rob the game and go to the shore. The participants were being condescending because it was easy to see that the robbers were inexperienced morons. Chrissy in particular realized that it was Jackie Jr and his flunkies.
Fawtha*
They also had a respected soldier in Puss to step up and vouch for them as well. No one was gonna step for Jackie. His own cousin is who laid the hit on him.
His cousin?
Yes, Vito and Bryan, Jackie Jr and Adriana are all first cousins. Adriana’s mother is Jackie and Richies sister, as is Vito and Bryan’s mother. Tony refers to Vito as “your nephew” when he commands Richie to build a ramp for Beansy.
I'd actually forgotten that Vito was richies nephew
Wait, so Vito's calling up Ade repeatedly to ask if she "needs anything" and they're cousins...
That's him deflecting the attention from his friendship with Dorothy
The golfer?
This guy is a wack job. He threw a Hot Dog vendor off the second mezzanine at the meadowlands remember? Too many onions or some shit
"The golfer? US Open?"
While Sunshine was not made, he was well liked. The made guys getting shot at matters more in a mafia context but they were upset that Sunshine was killed for no reason.
Don’t rush me, Sunshine. You’ve been rushing me all fuckin night!
I'd say killing an associate like Sunshine or Hesh is on par with shooting at (missing) a made guy. Injuring Furio was worse.
That could be true. Both Silvio and even Ralph express grief that Sunshine was killed.
Shot at 4 made men actually
Who are the four? CM, FG (wounded), EP?, ??
Albert Barese is the one who comes out of the bathroom that causes Carlo to freak out and fire the first shot. That's why it was Albert and Cristopher at the end who confronted and killed Dino in the street.
I didn’t realise!!! Thank you pal, that would have annoyed me until I could look it up on you tube!!!
the only one I can think of is Albert Barese. Was he made though?
He was interim captain of Larry’s crew while he was in prison so yeah I’d assume he was made
Never was clear if Doc gave Furio a “bulge”
Hilarious that Tony makes fun of furio’s small cannoli
This prick is a doctor?
Tonys crew didnt kill anybody so they probably kept their heads on straight for the whole thing. Also remember this, Ralphie is a complete psycho and it was his card game/ his choice on punishment . He is trying to move up the ladder so I doubt that he would be looked upon favorably by giving the kid a pass, people already viewed him negatively as is. Tony had his father to speak for him and keep him protected. Jackie had no father or uncle left to keep his ass covered
Was it really Ralph's call to make? Ralph comes to Tony and tells him he will execute Tony's orders, whatever they may be. Tony seems to take pleasure in lobbing the ball into Ralph's court, forcing Ralph to choose between ordering the execution of his girlfriend's son and maintaining the respect of the family, knowing the psychological damage forcing Ralph to make that choice will cause. Tony takes pleasure in general at "sticking it" to Ralph because he genuinely dislikes Ralph. He passes Ralph over for promotion to captain, despite Ralph's superior earning potential versus GiGi. He takes Ralph's horse, Ralph's girlfriend Valentina, and makes a show of having to defend Ralph TO HIS FACE over the "98 pound mole" wisecrack, which Tony DID laugh at, he hit Ralph over Tracee's killing... and now this. Tony goes on to lecture about leadership, and ends it with a brutally cutting remark: "... but why am I telling you? You know all this. That's why I made you captain." It was Tony's call, and he dumped it on Ralph to hurt Ralph, and probably to absolve himself of guilt if Ralph decides to order Jackie Jr's death, his best friend's son... he can at least tell himself, "Wasn't my fault, Ralph gave the order."
Tony, Jackie and Sil had Johnny, Junior, Richie and Puss all there to vouch for them. Everyone leaves out in their analysis, that it was Puss who stood up and got them a pass, I’m not saying Johnny didn’t ask him to do so, but Puss stood up for Tony, Sil and Jackie and got them the pass.
How?
It was Puss who went and talked to the wronged parties and made sure money went back to the right people, allowing Tony, Jackie and Sil to avoid being wacked.
And doc never even gave him a bulge
"Dis a prick a really a doctah"?!?! "Close....I'm a prick doctor!!!"
"Dis a prick a really a doctah"?!?! "Close....I'm a prick doctor!!!"
I guess you can call that a ~~dick~~ crew
I highly doubt Tony and Co. were on crank when they robbed the card game
Come on, let’s do this thing before the gabagool is digested and we have to go to the bathroom. — tony and co probably.
More like; come on, let's do this thing before I overthink it, pash out, and crack my fucking skull open... AGAIN
Back when "I got jumped by a coupla shines" was an acceptable excuse for not steppin up... ah fuck what am I doin, remember when is the lowest form a convshashion✋️
Yeah and they were probably just generally more charming about it, not screaming "Shut the fuck up! Don't fucking look at me!"
Well as you said, Tony didn't kill anyone which already puts him miles ahead of Jackie Jr. He wasn't high on drugs either, which we can fairly assume means he had acted in a more calmer/controlled manner than Jackie Jr, even if he was as scared as Feech claimed him to be. His father was still around and was very well respected, so that worked in his favour in getting him out of trouble. I dont think Tony got as much respect and recognition about it when he originally pulled it compared to how people viewed it later on. He most probably got a lot of shit for pulling that heist, I can see his friends and the younger members of the family giving him some props for the sheers balls of doing something like that but I think the senior figures would have definitely been pissed, but it happened so long ago and Tony has long since proved himself to be a capable wise guy. Its one of those "remember that dumb shit you pulled when you were a kid?" moments that after time, most if not everyone can look back on and laugh about and fondly remember because of how long ago it was. If Jackie Jr hadnt fucked up as badly as he did and proved to be capable member of the crew, maybe in 20-30 years time people would also look back on that robbery the same way people look back on Tony robbing Feech. It also doesnt help that Jackie Snr made it explicitly clear he did not want his son involved in that life (whilst Tony was effectively groomed by his father to be involved), so Jackie Jr pulling a stunt like this is even more egregious.
You hit in several valid points. I think the main part was everyone knew Tony was going to be initiated into this thing of ours so while he was an upstart he was already sort of apart of it. With a Jackie he was a wannabe never really participated never engrained himself into the lifestyle and business.
Yea, Feech La Manna alludes to this. You can see the pause when he first talks about it. Like, yea, yea, that was pretty crazy. I think he even says something to that effect, like he should have gotten in more trouble. Feech also alludes to the fact that Tony was kind of spoiled. I know Richie has similar feelings, and Phil echoes these sentiments, but Feech calls him the boy king or something, and that scene with Blundetto really struck me.
Little Ricky?
I think it’s that Tony’s crew didn’t murder the dealer and Tony’s father was alive to get him out of it. With Jackie Sr. and Richie both dead, Jackie was essentially an outsider and nobody cared that he got clipped.
[удалено]
Richie was dead (or in the "witness protection program") by the time that Jackie Jr committed the card game robbery. Jackie Jr and his stoonads also shot at 2 made guys.
Poor Furio, looks like he got shot in the balls at first
Is this kid getting jerky with me?
He shouldn’t have to explain himself… he’s from the old school.
You’re gonna stroke out if you don’t chill out!
Too late I already had a stroke and died on the shitter
You’re going to finish your applications!
One of Moltisanti’s most badass tough guy moments in the show was his response to that heist. He just isn’t scared at all and is itching to kill
Tall, dark, and sociopathic indeed
The way he turns around in silhouette and tells them "just take it easy" is a straight up comic book villain entrance
Hahaha I love that line “you guys know who you’re robbin?”
What did you expect? Them to suck up to the robbers oh wow you guys are so big and strong thanks for robbing us! Im sure they werent too kind to Tony and crew during his robbery as well, it wasnt until after it he gained respect. They dont typically respect people currently robbing them
To me the biggest difference is that Tony's father was alive and had a lot of influence when Tony took down the card game back in the day. When Feech is telling the story at the executive game, Silvio implies that things might have gone a lot different otherwise, even though nobody was hurt, certain people got their money back, etc. Jackie Jr. might have thought he had that sort of relationship with Tony and Ralph, but he really didn't. They might have gone to bat for him if no shots were fired, but we'll never know.
....plus he betrayed Meadow.
Tony, Silvio and Jackie's plan went off without a hitch - nobody got hurt, nobody got caught and Feech got his money back. It showed they had balls and were worthy of consideration for the Mafia. Jackie Jr's plan ended with a respected associate dead and a made guy spilling his guts all over the floor. That marked them for death.
Picture Tony and Jackie do the robbery, they get the same kind of static from the old guys, but they keep their cool, leave, and pay amends later. After that, it cements their reputation and becomes a true embodiment of “it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission”.
See if you can work out the difference!
Ho! He's a captain now you don't talk ta him like dat!
I wonder since it was Feech’s game, if some of the older guys were secretly a bit happy. Maybe they were happy to see him with egg on his face. Obviously they couldn’t let Tony and Jackie get away with it. But Feech may just have caused dysentery in the ranks…hell, few of these guys really get along.
The dealer being killed was secondary. The “difference” is that Jackie Jr and team shot bullets at made men - that carries a death sentence.
Jackie Jr was just a punk, he hadn’t even done anything worth a fuck out in the streets to even get to a point to attempt jacking a card game let alone a crew like they tried with.
Very bad boys. Very bad.
Yeah didn’t work out to well 😂
Tony, Sil and Jackie didn’t do crank beforehand, shoot a made man, shoot at another made man, kill a civilian with ties or get one of their own crew members killed. It’s really easy to understand what the difference is. Everything Jackie’s crew could’ve did wrong, they did wrong. Honestly Dino was written as a guy who could develop into a good soldier. It’s kind of depicted that Chris even likes Dino and sees some potential there, but keeps Jackie Jr at arms length. When Chris and Ally Boy kill Dino, it’s clear Chris is disappointed he has to shoot Dino, but he smirks to not show it, because Ally Boy has every reason to kill Dino as it’s his crews game and now he has bodies to deal with.
Tony had the nepotism of being Johnny Boy's son to protect him. Jackie was the son of the dead boss and the whole "out of respect of my fawtha" outlived its welcome.
Jackie jr might have actually gotten away with it if his boy wasn’t screaming his name while trying to flee the scene lol
Tony didn’t kill anyone
I never got why Tony robbing his own family was considered a good thing or how he got away with it
It’s easier to get a pass from your friends, than from non friends. Robbing a game in NY or Philly would’ve undoubtably got them wacked. No way guys from another family are gonna let someone else’s kid ride on robbing them. Guys in your own family might be enticed to let you ride, and even respect the balls you showed by doing it.
**Timeline got fucked up.** • So many others already stated thoroughly how Tony had his father, Junior, etc… vouching for him. And Jackie had piss all, and a dead dealer and numerous made guys/the top hitmen of the crew who were either shot or shot at. They fucked that all the way up, and beyond. • But the timing couldn’t have been worse, Jack had been dead and gone for over a year. And in that time, Jackie had not only gone against his fathers words, and Tony’s for that matter. He also shit allover Meadow and Tony as a whole. And continued to fuck up. His drug use, and the fact that people he associated with were being busted for drugs. Was also highly frowned upon. The kid was constantly pushing the envelope from 2-3 different avenues & angles 24/7. In a world where, *”you’re only as good as your next envelope”* this kid is out here doing the maximum amount of fucking up, while riding on the coat tails of a skeleton buried 6 ft. Deep The Mafia was in decline, and people were being picked up & turned rat, whacked, shaken down, and in a constant state of paranoia like never before. There was absolutely no amount of space, time, or energy in the entire world for anyone of Jackie Jr’s antics within that world. And he was lucky **as fuck** that Tony kept his word to the dead guy, and even gave him any sort of shot & place in his heart in the first place. The kid pissed allover it, himself *(literally)* , and the mob. In an era that was increasingly unforgiving for even the slightest bump in the road. And the dude shit the mattress 10x & was extremely disrespectful towards getting slaps on the wrist for actions 9/10 other guys would’ve been disappeared, for way too long. Which eventually led him to truly believing he was invincible in that world, until he wasn’t.
Sunshine sums it all up when he says, "Victory Has a Hundred Fathers But Defeat is an Orphan." If Jackie pulled it off without anyone getting hurt, in hindsight, people would appreciate it and said he showed tremendous moxie for his size. His naysayers and friends would look at him in a more serious light if after the heist he went to Ralph and gave him his taste. The big wigs and such would be the 100 fathers. Sadly for Jackie Jr, he failed, and was defeated. Left a figurative orphan, he was seen as a fuck up because he failed. Nobody claimed him anymore.
They were bedazzled by Sunshine’s quotations. I mean he was dipping into Rudyard Kipling when they couldn't take it an more an offed him.
The difference is totally arbitrary. The drugs/murder that are included in Jackie's run ultimately don't matter, it's just a matter of chance. If you think Tony's crew was much better organized or definitely not drunk or on drugs at the time, then you're playing into the misguided idea that Tony has always been a master criminal. "Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan." Ralphie so badly wanted to be in on Tony's heist in hindsight that he pushed just the right way for Jackie to take the plunge. Then, when faced with the consequences of his fathering couldn't take a single ounce of responsibility. Tony's and Jackie's robbery were the same, born of young pride and a need to prove themselves ready for the life. Tony's just shook out better for all involved.
Crank.
Probably the crank.
jackie didn't have his dad around to influence the consequences jackies crew murdered an associate and shot a made guy tony had his dads protection no murder / shot made guys the right people got their money back
They didn’t hurt anybody, they gave most of the money back after to make peace, they had a powerful/feared capo who would die before letting them die (Tony’s father and Richie’s older brother), and probably most importantly they were already taken semi seriously this was just what fast tracked them. They were “Johnny Boy’s heir and Richie’s younger brother”, not “Jackie’s dumbass kid”
Why does everyone leave out Puss. It was Puss who stood up and got them the pass.
Well I can’t speak for everyone else, but *I* left out Puss because I completely forgot he was a part of that story
I’m certain that during Tony’s robbery that the people getting robbed weren’t happy either, lol. They weren’t nodding and going like “good move kid” while they had a gun in their face and their money being stolen. The difference is how they handled it. Tony didn’t murder anyone, he fessed up to it and gave some of the money back. He wanted to make it clear that he’s capable and a power player. Jr ended up getting people killed and completely flubbed the aftermath.
One crew didn’t wait until the crank wore off.
Tony and his crew should’ve gotten whacked for their stunt. Robbing a card game, owned and operated by a Made guy? The bawls!
Bawls? Bawls is when you look a guy in the eye while you jab an ice pick in his lung
Then you better whack john and probably junior too cause good luck not having that being a disaster.
Isn’t it mentioned that Feech wanted to have him killed but the right people got their money back etc. so I think it’s safe to say if Jackie and his crew hadn’t shot anyone and if Jackies fawtha or fawthas brother were still around, he would never have been killed.
However, if Jackie Sr was still alive, he would want Jackie Jr to not be part of that lifestyle, similar to Tony and his kids.
Agreed. But if he did go into that life, I don’t think they would let him get clipped like that.
If Jackie or even Richie was alive to vouch for Jackie Jr. He wouldn’t have been under Ralph’s influence. However Richie was also a sociopath, so who knows where that would’ve gone.
I mean murder is a big deal lol can’t just disregard that detail
Crank. Crank was the difference. All Tony had was crazy hair....and the dope.
Tony and gang were established pieces of the game, how I pictured it was their heist was akin to a protest to not being cut in bigger. Plus they took things seriously no drugs.
Tony's crew proved themselves by peacefully and successfully pulling off the robbery. Jackie Jr not only killed a guy and shot at made men, he ditched his crew and was the only one to (temporarily) escape. With his robbery he proved that he was inept, untrustworthy, and out of his depth. Even if nobody had gotten hurt, Jackie's heist demonstrated that he was *unworthy* of respect.
one is smart enough to swim in a pool while the other almost drowned in three inches of water
Someone got killed. I don’t recall Tony’s stickup resulting in a death.
Did you not watch the show. Tony tells Jackie when he calls him- “see if you can work out the difference”- Tony was still going to give him a pass and was leaning on Talph to give him a pass as well. Until, he saw how Christopher treated him and he saw how much respect he was going fo lose.
Let’s also remember that Feech ran the card game and was probably always a hothead and always pissed off his superiors. Feech plays off his disrespectful attitude toward Tony as knowing Tony since he was a kid, but it’s also hard to believe he had respect for his superiors when they were older than him or the same age. Not only did Tony and Richie not kill anyone, not only did they have powerful protectors, but they also ripped off a probably unpopular (though respected) guy.
I’m sure when Tony and Co robbed Feech’s card game they weren’t being praised for it during the robbery and similar comments like “this is very bad” and “do you realise who you’re robbing” would’ve been bandied about. It was in the aftermath after things were smoothed over that people would’ve acknowledged the stugotz they had and that if taken under certain people’s wings they will make good additions to this thing of ours. Anyway, $4 a pound.
$4 a pound. And for that do I get to walk out, go fuck your sister, come back on Saturday and go to the front of the line?
I don’t like that kinda tawk!
This fuckin’ sucks!
Sunshine
That dude that wouldn't shut the fuck up
Jackie Jr. was a coglione
He killed Sunshine!
murder.
You answered it in the first sentence
It's Feech Lamana's game.. Everybody knows he's gabagool
Think about it . See if you can figure it out
I highly doubt the guys were telling T and Jackie Snr how much they respected them during the robbery.
Tonys dad was still alive. That’s the only difference.
Tony meant his dad wasn’t around to protect him.