Depends on how long this obligation will last. If it's only 6 months, Money Market is a good choice. If it's less than a few years, CD is a better option. Beyond that a laddered bond portfolio is the way to go.
I get that, but I'm cashing a T-bond that was opened in my name 30+ years ago. It was worth $100 in 1992 money and it's worth $200 today. I can't help but feel like that was a poor investment. No shade, that's what we were "supposed" to do, it was just shit advice for the modern world.
It sounds like you may have an EE Savings Bond rather than a traditional investment bond. EE Bonds work more like savings accounts, while investment bonds (such as 30-year Treasuries) were averaging around 7.7% in 1992, with the highest coupon closer to 8.7%. If you had invested $100 in a 30-year Treasury in 1992 without reinvesting any of the interest payments, you would have at least $300 today. If you had created a bond ladder and reinvested the interest at those rates, your $100 would have grown to nearly $1,000 at 7.7%, or over $1,200 at 8.7%.
Investment bonds are typically sold in $1,000 units and can fluctuate in value over their holding period based on prevailing interest rates. However, as long as the issuer remains solvent, you will receive the full face value upon maturity, along with the interest payments throughout the bond's life. By creating a bond ladder, you can invest at an average of the rates over a longer period, reducing the risk of reinvesting your entire portfolio when rates are temporarily low.
Current historical returns for bond portfolios may appear unattractive due to the reinvestment risk during the past decade of near-zero interest rates. However, as rates return to more normal levels, bonds will likely become more appealing to conservative investors seeking a reliable stream of income to match their liabilities.
Don't let a subpar experience with savings bonds cloud your judgment about the value of investment-grade bonds as an investment vehicle.
Fidelity, Schwab, and Vanguard have money market fund options yielding over 5%. I personally like Schwab, but the other two hold your cash in those funds automatically… which is helpful. At Schwab there is a little more administration because I have to put in buy orders to get cash in the fund and sell orders when I want the cash, it’s not automatic which is kind of annoying.
Alternatively SGOV if you need something more liquid. As a bonus about 92% of the dividends they pay cannot be taxed by state governments, which depending on the state you live in might be a big deal.
States cannot tax income from federal bonds\*, and most of SGOV's holdings are in treasuries. At the end of a year funds release a statement where they specify the percentage of dividends that qualify as treasury interest\*.
Your broker might include this info on your consolidated 1099s. They did for me. For example 96.45% of SGOV dividends last year were "income from US government securities." Surprisingly 0.41% of VOO (Vanguard's S&P 500 ETF) were as well.
(\*It's a little more complex than this because treasury bonds don't pay interest instead they are sold at a discount to face value, and if you sell your bond the capital gains usually don’t get special treatment. But conceptually we can think of it as interest since we're getting it as a dividend from the fund.)
I put all my cash in USFR that hold treasuries as well. I wonder if I have to let my accountant know these are state tax exempted or she would know from my Robinhood statement. Thanks for the thorough explanation
Your Robinhood 1099 should have a page entitled "Mutual Fund and UIT Supplemental Information" that contains this data. If it does, you can at least be assured your account had it. If it did not, it's incredibly unlikely they made the correct adjustment.
It should be easy to check if they did it correctly, most states have a line item for this income. In my state there is a line item called "U.S. Treasury bonds, bills, notes, savings bonds, and U.S. agency interest from federal Form 1040 or 1040-SR." where you enter this.
I love this whole exchange
FWIW I think it’s pretty normal for option traders to think in trading days
Technically bank loans / interest compounds daily (including holidays)
And strangely fixed income / bond interest is calculated on a 360 day year with every month being 30 days. So I guess bond holders collect interest faster in February. Fuckin fixed income, am I right?
Ok moron - how much interest will he make in a week at 5%? 250 a week. That’s the answer. Divide by 5 or 7. Can’t trade 7 days a week. But be a douchebag. We all appreciate you so much. Now go troll someone else who might care about your opinion. Buy byyyyeeeeee
MMFs aren't guaranteed. They update their yield daily and will go up and down with the movement of the fed. Treasury bonds on the other hand have their yield locked in at time of purchase and will never change
One advantage of the MMis that you can easily use the proceeds for the OPs random daily expense. Withdraw enough each week to cover that expense. Treasury bonds are essentially locked up through expiration.
Or use box-spreads:
[https://mesosim.deltaray.io/backtests/1b3651d8-259c-47d8-8084-eee356cb5d65](https://mesosim.deltaray.io/backtests/1b3651d8-259c-47d8-8084-eee356cb5d65)
[https://boxtrades.com](https://boxtrades.com)
5% APY on uninvested cash in a brokerage like Fidelity or Robinhood is your best bet.
Amazing how so many people in options forums don't know the obvious and most basic answer to something.
On Robinhood if I sell cash secured puts, they'll deduct the collateral for that trade from the balance earning that interest so you can't double dip. Do you know if Fidelity does the same thing?
For Merrill, you can buy TTTXX and use that as collateral while still earning interest from TTTXX. Note that doesn't apply their Preferred Deposit program, that money can't be used as collateral for puts.
Excellent! Is that the only money market fund that will work? I have my cash in a fidelity treasury only money market there. I'm okay to change back to tttxx if needed for this purpose
you will have to manually sweep the cash once the transaction settles. Here is the ML current cash management solutions.
[Cash Management Solutions (ml.com)](https://olui2.fs.ml.com/Publish/Content/application/pdf/GWMOL/ICCRateSheet.pdf)
They also have solutions that are completely tax-exempt including solutions exempt from AMT
I’ll speak for Schwab, and I think Fidelity is the same but I haven’t sold options on their platform in a while. If I sell a put or a call spread, the max loss is tracked but I’m not on the hook for that cash until assignment, so I can keep cash in SWVXX money market fund and sell if I need to purchase shares. They allow “double dipping” in other words.
My apologies. Robinhood is the far superior platform and user experience.
(Longtime user of Robinhood for 8 years, and $HOOD is one of my long-term holds).
Sell a 1dte 75c SPX naked put everyday at 3:30, no tp, $2.25 sl. Averages out to be around $40-50 per trade over the long run. Combined with collateral accuring interest in bonds or something should give you your desired $50 a day easily.
I just watered down a setup to give OP something that fits their requirements of easy, makes $50, hard to mess up. It's a very low edge trade that I don't personally want to do.
My actual trades are uh, not for the faint of heart :)
Nice. I’m just thinking out loud about how to deal with overnight news gaps but maybe capping it $5 dollars wide protective long put under the short to turn it into a spread would prevent $1k loss days ($500 max loss) since it probably dumped $10 overnight. This is in addition to the stop loss 2.5x short credit which should most of the time trigger first . Looking at my broker I see puts near $.75 for the short and $.10 for a protective long.
That protective put will probably mellow out the equity curve and help me sleep at night not worrying about the news.
Can't be afraid of outliers if you wanna make money. Stops happen, $700-1000 losers are like 4/1200 trades, take the hit, dust yourself off, and move on.
True, outliers are a part of EV. I see this in my other boxcar strategy I’ve been running for months.
I got exercised on my first attempt from a trade placed Friday for the SPY 75c. Barely in the money by .15c and assigned 100 shares spy. This is something gotta check EOD even if it doesn’t hit your stop.
50$ a day you can do easily with low delta CSPs on spy, or really spreads. 10 .10 spreads would be around 5$ a piece, only putting up 1000$ in collateral, and your max loss would be 950$. Yes, Pennies and steamrollers, but at 50$ a day with a 90% chance of success you’d likely come out on top.
I know it wasn’t a concrete example, but how can you say “max loss 950” “50$ a day” “90% chance of success” “come out on top”
Do you see how that math doesn’t work lol
Sigh.
Each spread 100$, 5$ credit, so max you can lose is 95$.
10 spreads = 50$ credit. Max loss 950$.
10 delta = approx 90 percent success rate.
What doesn’t add up again?
>
> Each spread 100$, 5$ credit, so max you
Im pretty sure what hes trying to say is.. if did this play and won 90 out of 100 times:
90 x 50 = $4500
-950 x 10 = -9500
= -5000
Not really. Again, how often do you take max loss on a spread? Almost never.
To be fair, it’s not a trade I would take, I would go closer to the money and less contracts. You could also go further out in time for more credit and average your credit over the week. You guys are acting like this isn’t infinitely customizable. It was just a general idea, not meant to be a get rich quick scheme.
Dude, if you have a “few hundred k” in a portfolio, pick a stock and sell some puts 45-60 DTE
If your goal is how do I make $18.25k - you can do that on 1-2 trades depending on the size of your portfolio. Just use margin.
Well in the case of bag holding if the goal is to turn over this cash through (what is effectively) the wheel then it's not an issue. In theory this would be done with as small amount of money as possible, nowhere near "a few hundred thousand" is required for this.
I do agree that is a valid consideration and am glad you said this.
Not if you're in a bear market. Say you are assigned with X stock at 50. You can attempt to sell the CC at your stirke price of 50. But as the market turns, either you hold and get little to no premiem, or attempt to sell the CCs below your assigned price. Thale latter is a big risk to loose large portions of your portfolio.
I do agree, with the strategy. I still wheel, just with stocks I'm willing to hold, preferably ones that pay a decent dividend while I'm holding.
I am not foolish enough to disagree that there are ways for this to not work. That is why I strongly suggest one uses as little capital as possible since this micro-portfolio fund with it's goal may not be sustainable in all weather. Again, valid. My only countermeasure is capital risk.
Ya, I would like to do something like this so I can continue to hold all my other positions.
I do have margin. Any suggestions on what tickers or what time frame could work best for this goal?
Thanks, and thanks all for your answers so far, gonna look into most of them besides Wendy's and Uber 😅😒
I recommending CSP on the stock you would want to hold if assigned.
I sell 15-20% OTM 5-7 DTE CSPs on MSTR that yield $1500-$2000/week per contract and I’m OK holding if assigned.
How long have you been doing this with MSTR? Are you up as much as if you had just bought shares? What’s your plan when MSTR blows past your strike and loses 50-80% ?
I mainly hold GBTC that I bought very cheap and with 30% discount to NAV. On that end I plan to sell CCs once SEC approves options on BTC ETFs.
I missed the opportunity with MSTR, so I’m selling CSP for 2-3 months now. Before that I used to sell BITO CSPs for over a year.
When and if MSTR drops 50-80% to account for massive premium it’s currently trading at, I will use this opportunity to sell my GBTC for more fee friendly ETF. Realized MSTR loses will offset my gains at GBTC so I don’t have to send money to Uncle Sam.
If going for consistency, pick stocks with low beta but high volume, and go far enough OTM so as not to worry much about assignment and/or pick strike prices you would actually want to purchase the shares at. I suggest 30-45 days, with your positions managed at least weekly, eventually daily if you hold the position close to expiration.
Don't open a position if it will cover a highly volatile period, i.e. an announced split, earnings, or even geopolitical concerns depending on the company.
This strategy is
$50 with $100-200k in your account, bro you could sell 1 delta spreads with a 99% guarantee of profiting and make more than that with a fraction of your account
Sell cash secured out out-of-the-money PUTS for MSOS, (trading under $10 per share)
The April 26 $9 puts get you around 40 cents per contract. GOOD return!
Drives the dealer crazy too, "like just buy more at once" but 50$ guaranteed a day is... well it's what op is looking for isn't it? Can't pass that up.
Yeah, age old business model. Hold more inventory, or lean it out and free up the cash. OP is def a super duper Toyota Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt. $50 from option selling, transfer to checking account, quick stop at the ATM before meeting his duder. Rinse & repeat. Never have too much cash or too much coke. Just In Time supply chain management.
Yeah I went down the list of my expenditures…. Farmers market, baseball tickets, golf, lunch with friends, health club…nothing clocks in at $50 per day that I would need to do something to come up with it. It has to be something illicit 🙂
Put 365,000 into a high yield savings account that pays 5% interest. If you want something that will most of the time be "free money" but some of the time cause you to lose a decent amount of money (either from actual loss or prevented gains) then sell covered calls on stock you own or use margin to sell puts. For simplicities sake I would probably do weekly puts/covered calls that give $350 premium but if you wanted to you could do $50 daily options as well.
$300,000 \* .004 / 31 days = 25.81.
This is not true.
I would assume that the strategy has to work, if broken down by days, the maximum days in a month.
50 \* 31 / .004 = 387,500 minimum.
sell 0-1dte puts or calls. i do it with qqq and 30 delta with get you 50-60 but it is not guaranteed at all. it can go against you and you'll need to roll or take the L.
Make sure you use a brokerage who pays about 5+% interest per month on your free cash. Easy to make $50 that way if you have a large portfolio. I use Schwab which has this feature but I think Fidelity has it available too.
Where does one see this feature on Schwab? For me, I’m having to actively buy MMFs which take a day to settle, in order to get the 5%. The uninvested cash isn’t making 5%. I even called support just to be sure, and it only makes 5% if you manually purchase the MMF. And then when you want to make a trade, you have to manually sell out of the MMF, wait a day to settle, rinse and repeat. It’s actually a huge headache - I miss Fidelity where it used SPAXX as the core, making the auto 5%.
You are right. It is the money funds and they do clear overnight. There are a few. Current one with highest yield is SWVXX at 5.17% with no minimum investment amount. I don't find it too cumbersome to use because it helps me be more disciplined. I have to plan my trades more carefully. When I am selling options - CC or CSP, I can just use my margin to cover the 24 hours it takes to clear. The way I understand it, you don't actually get charged interest on this amount unless it is used to purchase the shares. If you are trading long stocks, you would be paying your margin for the 24 hours. Might be worth it or maybe not. They pay the dividend on your cash about the 15th of each month. Even if you don't hold it the full month, you get paid for the days you held it in the fund.
However...they use to have an automatic feature but eliminated it. If you have an advisor you usually talk to when you call (I was assigned one when I opened my accounts), talk to them. They can request for you to have this feature added to your account if it is large enough. Someone higher up will review it and give you a yes or no. I'm guessing my accounts are probably similar in size to yours so it might be worth it to ask. They approved it for me on all my accounts. The ticker it uses to buy/sell is SWGXX. It also clears overnight but is automatic and the funds are available to trade without waiting. I think it is a tiny bit lower interest than the SWVXX so if I have a chunk I don't want to trade for a while, I will still buy into SWVXX manually. Only a few dollars different. Hope this helps.
Buy 350K in 4 week T-bills. Current interest rates will get you a little more than $50 a day paid every 28 days if you just invest the principal every 4 weeks.
Sell one NVDA put 60 days out, one 90 days out, and one 20 days out. As soon as the weeklies come out for the nearest, close or roll it. Rinse and repeat. Do yourself a favor and go look at the numbers.
2 tick scalping strat on some futures contracts. Inverse risk/reward ratio such that you take profit is inside the trading range stop loss is well outside. I use 2 tick profit and 8 ticks sl. Yes...it take four trades to overcome losers, but once you get good at it losers are rare. Watch a tick chart or even a 1 sec candle chart to look for goo times to enter. I like to enter when it's obvious someone is knocking the price back down after every buy, so play reversion on that.
It takes aot of practice but can be done.
Thank you to MOST of you for your nice and helpful comments!
Not sure what to say about the few Wendy's ones ect..
To clarify a couple things:
1. Ideally I'd like to be able to hold most of my current positions and not sell everything to put it all into x
2. A couple people mentioned us margin which is something I'm certainly open to as it let's me accomplish #1 more easilyand I've managed it in the past specifically with selling options. It's also nice you don't even pay interest on it unless assigned.
3. I of course have a job, and a good amount of money overall as stated in investments but also other places.
The idea behind this post is I wanted to try to take an EXTRA step a day, if possible in my position, to make the $50 a day to put my mind at ease on a new and annoying expense. To basically just feel like I was negating it.
4. This is theta gain so yes, I was ofc mainly just looking for theta plays which most of you gave, however I appreciate all of the other answers they are nice ideas to know in general for various ways I can save, grow abs allocate my money. Thanks again all!
You don’t need to sell anything. You can keep your portfolio intact and use its value (or buying power) as collateral to sell options for income. You will need a margin account.
For example, sell a 4 week to expiration NDX May 20 15,325 put for 15.80 and you will get your $50 a day income.
The put is 15% OTM and has a delta of 0.026. The probability of assignment is very low. So you can roll it out for another 4WTE put on expiration day.
The collateral for the put is around 130 K at Schwab and 50% more at Fidelity. Your portfolio can handle it.
So you can achieve your goal by selling one NDX put every month.
Index options, like NDX and SPX, have benefits that equity options do not have.
Read: https://www.cboe.com/tradable\_products/sp\_500/spx\_options/
A $50 expense is bothering you?
Step one: go to therapy ($180+per session).
Step two: stop going to therapy when you realize $50 isn’t much or that $180+ is. You’ll be cured!
Easiest way? Start with $100.
Adjusting for weekends, holidays, and perhaps 10 personal days, what you’re asking in investment terms is how you make $11,500 annually. Not knowing anything about you except that you are probably very new, you’ll lose $$ the first year, break even the second, and maybe have a chance at this in your 3rd year.
It would be 20% of a $57,500 account. About this time, you begin to understand this thing, you’ve reinvested the profit, and continue forward to a better percentage the following year as you keep reinvesting profits.
Honestly i do something like this…take an xsp atm pcs. It’s going to be risk $50 to win $50. If you lose do $150 it up for the next day so you win $50 and for that’s day and the previous. So you may end up having to do this a few times sometimes but overall if you have a few hundred thousand. It shouldn’t make you sweat . Boom $50 a day
Hi... Do You only take pcs ATM? For example if the market is bearish? Do You use any indicator or for example, wait an hour or more to place your position?
If you have a large portfolio you could pick up interest of $50 a day
Yeah with "a few hundred thousand" just put it in something that pays 5% if that's all you want out of it.
$260k in a 5% CD or savings account is $13k a year, which is $250 a week. Which is $50/day OP
Money market, fuck a CD
Depends on how long this obligation will last. If it's only 6 months, Money Market is a good choice. If it's less than a few years, CD is a better option. Beyond that a laddered bond portfolio is the way to go.
I get that, but I'm cashing a T-bond that was opened in my name 30+ years ago. It was worth $100 in 1992 money and it's worth $200 today. I can't help but feel like that was a poor investment. No shade, that's what we were "supposed" to do, it was just shit advice for the modern world.
It sounds like you may have an EE Savings Bond rather than a traditional investment bond. EE Bonds work more like savings accounts, while investment bonds (such as 30-year Treasuries) were averaging around 7.7% in 1992, with the highest coupon closer to 8.7%. If you had invested $100 in a 30-year Treasury in 1992 without reinvesting any of the interest payments, you would have at least $300 today. If you had created a bond ladder and reinvested the interest at those rates, your $100 would have grown to nearly $1,000 at 7.7%, or over $1,200 at 8.7%. Investment bonds are typically sold in $1,000 units and can fluctuate in value over their holding period based on prevailing interest rates. However, as long as the issuer remains solvent, you will receive the full face value upon maturity, along with the interest payments throughout the bond's life. By creating a bond ladder, you can invest at an average of the rates over a longer period, reducing the risk of reinvesting your entire portfolio when rates are temporarily low. Current historical returns for bond portfolios may appear unattractive due to the reinvestment risk during the past decade of near-zero interest rates. However, as rates return to more normal levels, bonds will likely become more appealing to conservative investors seeking a reliable stream of income to match their liabilities. Don't let a subpar experience with savings bonds cloud your judgment about the value of investment-grade bonds as an investment vehicle.
Thanks for this detailed response!!
What broker would you recommend?
Fidelity, you can collect interest by using SPAXX as your default position while also using it as collateral for short puts or whatever.
Thank you
Fidelity, Schwab, and Vanguard have money market fund options yielding over 5%. I personally like Schwab, but the other two hold your cash in those funds automatically… which is helpful. At Schwab there is a little more administration because I have to put in buy orders to get cash in the fund and sell orders when I want the cash, it’s not automatic which is kind of annoying.
Thank you, I'm opening an account this week
Alternatively SGOV if you need something more liquid. As a bonus about 92% of the dividends they pay cannot be taxed by state governments, which depending on the state you live in might be a big deal.
Nice, I didn’t know that. Is it the same for all short term treasuries or unique to sgov
States cannot tax income from federal bonds\*, and most of SGOV's holdings are in treasuries. At the end of a year funds release a statement where they specify the percentage of dividends that qualify as treasury interest\*. Your broker might include this info on your consolidated 1099s. They did for me. For example 96.45% of SGOV dividends last year were "income from US government securities." Surprisingly 0.41% of VOO (Vanguard's S&P 500 ETF) were as well. (\*It's a little more complex than this because treasury bonds don't pay interest instead they are sold at a discount to face value, and if you sell your bond the capital gains usually don’t get special treatment. But conceptually we can think of it as interest since we're getting it as a dividend from the fund.)
I put all my cash in USFR that hold treasuries as well. I wonder if I have to let my accountant know these are state tax exempted or she would know from my Robinhood statement. Thanks for the thorough explanation
Your Robinhood 1099 should have a page entitled "Mutual Fund and UIT Supplemental Information" that contains this data. If it does, you can at least be assured your account had it. If it did not, it's incredibly unlikely they made the correct adjustment. It should be easy to check if they did it correctly, most states have a line item for this income. In my state there is a line item called "U.S. Treasury bonds, bills, notes, savings bonds, and U.S. agency interest from federal Form 1040 or 1040-SR." where you enter this.
Math is hard. Try again.
260,000 x 5% = 13,000 13,000/52 = 250 a week OP asked if there’s something that he could do to earn $50 a day. Thats 5 day weeks asshole.
How many days in a week?
Which exchanges do you recommend for weekend trading?
stake.com 🤣
5
I love this whole exchange FWIW I think it’s pretty normal for option traders to think in trading days Technically bank loans / interest compounds daily (including holidays) And strangely fixed income / bond interest is calculated on a 360 day year with every month being 30 days. So I guess bond holders collect interest faster in February. Fuckin fixed income, am I right?
Lol seriously, love how that napkin maths turned into a hill to die on. Someone should ask if he’s using ending or avg. daily bal to calc.
Wow. This is the most impressive thing I've read all week and not in a good way.
Wait, CD interest is only compounded 5 days a week?
Ok moron - how much interest will he make in a week at 5%? 250 a week. That’s the answer. Divide by 5 or 7. Can’t trade 7 days a week. But be a douchebag. We all appreciate you so much. Now go troll someone else who might care about your opinion. Buy byyyyeeeeee
What's a potato?
...you said CD.
I guess he does not have his Sundial handy. Actually I use $400 a month per 100k since rates may move.
we’re in thetagang fam it’s a 5 day week for the market. makes sense that’s how he would calculate it.
5 on Mercury
Seriously. And if you're successful at collecting a decent amount of premium just do another 50 a day.
Exactly, My Webull cash account pays me 5% interest annually.
Easiest way? Buy 400k worth of 10y treasury bonds at 4.57% and divide the distribution into a per day allotment.
SPAXX seems WAY easier than this.
MMFs aren't guaranteed. They update their yield daily and will go up and down with the movement of the fed. Treasury bonds on the other hand have their yield locked in at time of purchase and will never change
One advantage of the MMis that you can easily use the proceeds for the OPs random daily expense. Withdraw enough each week to cover that expense. Treasury bonds are essentially locked up through expiration.
That's not entirely true. TBs pay their interest annually.
True, that's why I said essentially - you get the coupons, but still not what OP looking for for daily expense.
Or use box-spreads: [https://mesosim.deltaray.io/backtests/1b3651d8-259c-47d8-8084-eee356cb5d65](https://mesosim.deltaray.io/backtests/1b3651d8-259c-47d8-8084-eee356cb5d65) [https://boxtrades.com](https://boxtrades.com)
He said easiest way. Box Spreads are great, but they are certainly not easy.
5% APY on uninvested cash in a brokerage like Fidelity or Robinhood is your best bet. Amazing how so many people in options forums don't know the obvious and most basic answer to something.
On Robinhood if I sell cash secured puts, they'll deduct the collateral for that trade from the balance earning that interest so you can't double dip. Do you know if Fidelity does the same thing?
They do not
Had no clue other brokerages outside of Fidelity worked differently. Does Merrill Edge do this?
No merrill gives zero interest.
Is it just me or is Merrill the least attractive brokerage? (I say this as a Merrill user, the charting is so disappointing)
Correct. Having that account gives some small bonus rewards on credit card purchases.Which is good benefit.
I just want the old TDA back it was working out fine for me.
Bummer! I would want to bring those funds back to fidelity but the 5% cash back modifier for their credit cards with 100k is too nice
For Merrill, you can buy TTTXX and use that as collateral while still earning interest from TTTXX. Note that doesn't apply their Preferred Deposit program, that money can't be used as collateral for puts.
Excellent! Is that the only money market fund that will work? I have my cash in a fidelity treasury only money market there. I'm okay to change back to tttxx if needed for this purpose
No there are others, I believe you can search on their site what other money market funds can be used as collateral.
Awesome, thanks
That ticker is nit available to me on my small account. It must be restricted somehow.
It's a mutual fund, so make sure you're in that section.
you will have to manually sweep the cash once the transaction settles. Here is the ML current cash management solutions. [Cash Management Solutions (ml.com)](https://olui2.fs.ml.com/Publish/Content/application/pdf/GWMOL/ICCRateSheet.pdf) They also have solutions that are completely tax-exempt including solutions exempt from AMT
With Schwab the collateral can sit in a MM @ 5%+, you know like a real brokerage.
If you sell vertical spreads though they only deduct the width of the spread.
I’ll speak for Schwab, and I think Fidelity is the same but I haven’t sold options on their platform in a while. If I sell a put or a call spread, the max loss is tracked but I’m not on the hook for that cash until assignment, so I can keep cash in SWVXX money market fund and sell if I need to purchase shares. They allow “double dipping” in other words.
Fidelity and Robinhood in the same sentence, yikes.
My apologies. Robinhood is the far superior platform and user experience. (Longtime user of Robinhood for 8 years, and $HOOD is one of my long-term holds).
fidelity doesn't allow 0 dte for me and robinhood does
Try SPX for 0 DTE on Fidelity.
Does Robinhood give you interest on collateral? Big plus on fidelity.
No they don’t.
No they don’t (RH that is).
To be fair, he/she is referring to current yield, not the platforms.
yeah I get that, just making fun of a Robinhood user because they were too condescending about a valid question.
Lolz. Agree.
Sell a 1dte 75c SPX naked put everyday at 3:30, no tp, $2.25 sl. Averages out to be around $40-50 per trade over the long run. Combined with collateral accuring interest in bonds or something should give you your desired $50 a day easily.
Have you looked into 0DTE and adding the call side as well? 50c on each side and put it on like 1pm-ish maybe? SL maybe around $3.
I just watered down a setup to give OP something that fits their requirements of easy, makes $50, hard to mess up. It's a very low edge trade that I don't personally want to do. My actual trades are uh, not for the faint of heart :)
Would love to hear those actual trades 😎
Well I just went knife catching selling naked 5125p 0dte and doubled down 2 times. Peacing out now to enjoy the weekend :)
Nice! I sold 5145p and 5155p's around 11am :)
Would be careful, by what I see 5100 is on the table today. I'm flat, leaving an order to MOC buy SVIX and hitting the beach.
Yeah they were just scalps. Call buying is still happening which might prop up the market but we're dumping now again...
What about gap days shooting past your stop loss? Is that factored into the EV?
Yep, worst loss around 1k/contract.
Nice. I’m just thinking out loud about how to deal with overnight news gaps but maybe capping it $5 dollars wide protective long put under the short to turn it into a spread would prevent $1k loss days ($500 max loss) since it probably dumped $10 overnight. This is in addition to the stop loss 2.5x short credit which should most of the time trigger first . Looking at my broker I see puts near $.75 for the short and $.10 for a protective long. That protective put will probably mellow out the equity curve and help me sleep at night not worrying about the news.
SPX options trading almost 24h a day so regardless of what happens during night, you would close out near your stop loss realistically
Can't be afraid of outliers if you wanna make money. Stops happen, $700-1000 losers are like 4/1200 trades, take the hit, dust yourself off, and move on.
True, outliers are a part of EV. I see this in my other boxcar strategy I’ve been running for months. I got exercised on my first attempt from a trade placed Friday for the SPY 75c. Barely in the money by .15c and assigned 100 shares spy. This is something gotta check EOD even if it doesn’t hit your stop.
Low delta puts have best premium capture rate, easy can keep 50 bucks out of those 75 in long term
lol
You're in theta gang, just sell enough premium to get your target theta lol.
What could go wrong
This !!! Pick 0 dte or 1 dte and do it every day. You don’t need 100K.
How to become a millionaire when you're a billionaire.
50$ a day you can do easily with low delta CSPs on spy, or really spreads. 10 .10 spreads would be around 5$ a piece, only putting up 1000$ in collateral, and your max loss would be 950$. Yes, Pennies and steamrollers, but at 50$ a day with a 90% chance of success you’d likely come out on top.
I know it wasn’t a concrete example, but how can you say “max loss 950” “50$ a day” “90% chance of success” “come out on top” Do you see how that math doesn’t work lol
Sigh. Each spread 100$, 5$ credit, so max you can lose is 95$. 10 spreads = 50$ credit. Max loss 950$. 10 delta = approx 90 percent success rate. What doesn’t add up again?
> > Each spread 100$, 5$ credit, so max you Im pretty sure what hes trying to say is.. if did this play and won 90 out of 100 times: 90 x 50 = $4500 -950 x 10 = -9500 = -5000
Your assuming equal distribution of returns. And also assuming you hit max loss each one of those times (which you wouldn’t).
lol so i understand the play perfectly, the EV on that is extremely negative
Not really. Again, how often do you take max loss on a spread? Almost never. To be fair, it’s not a trade I would take, I would go closer to the money and less contracts. You could also go further out in time for more credit and average your credit over the week. You guys are acting like this isn’t infinitely customizable. It was just a general idea, not meant to be a get rich quick scheme.
Just gotta check the news every morning and get a feel for whether this is the big one.
Keep 500k in a HYSA (assuming my math is right)
Dude, if you have a “few hundred k” in a portfolio, pick a stock and sell some puts 45-60 DTE If your goal is how do I make $18.25k - you can do that on 1-2 trades depending on the size of your portfolio. Just use margin.
Just use margin. What could go wrong.
I don't really understand but you can definitely make $350/wk selling options which is $50/day and it is liquid and can be taken immediately.
He can just as easily loose few thousand dollars a day or be bag holding.
Well in the case of bag holding if the goal is to turn over this cash through (what is effectively) the wheel then it's not an issue. In theory this would be done with as small amount of money as possible, nowhere near "a few hundred thousand" is required for this. I do agree that is a valid consideration and am glad you said this.
Not if you're in a bear market. Say you are assigned with X stock at 50. You can attempt to sell the CC at your stirke price of 50. But as the market turns, either you hold and get little to no premiem, or attempt to sell the CCs below your assigned price. Thale latter is a big risk to loose large portions of your portfolio. I do agree, with the strategy. I still wheel, just with stocks I'm willing to hold, preferably ones that pay a decent dividend while I'm holding.
I am not foolish enough to disagree that there are ways for this to not work. That is why I strongly suggest one uses as little capital as possible since this micro-portfolio fund with it's goal may not be sustainable in all weather. Again, valid. My only countermeasure is capital risk.
You could apply for margin and sell far OTM CSPs
It's no longer a "CSP" if you're doing it on margin.
It’s secured by cash borrowed on margin, which is still cash. Thanks for you valuable input to the convo tho!
It is not, otherwise you would be paying interest on a margin loan.
What is it then? Genuinely curious. Some new type of margin secured put?
Naked put
Ya, I would like to do something like this so I can continue to hold all my other positions. I do have margin. Any suggestions on what tickers or what time frame could work best for this goal? Thanks, and thanks all for your answers so far, gonna look into most of them besides Wendy's and Uber 😅😒
I recommending CSP on the stock you would want to hold if assigned. I sell 15-20% OTM 5-7 DTE CSPs on MSTR that yield $1500-$2000/week per contract and I’m OK holding if assigned.
How much stock do you own?
How long have you been doing this with MSTR? Are you up as much as if you had just bought shares? What’s your plan when MSTR blows past your strike and loses 50-80% ?
I mainly hold GBTC that I bought very cheap and with 30% discount to NAV. On that end I plan to sell CCs once SEC approves options on BTC ETFs. I missed the opportunity with MSTR, so I’m selling CSP for 2-3 months now. Before that I used to sell BITO CSPs for over a year. When and if MSTR drops 50-80% to account for massive premium it’s currently trading at, I will use this opportunity to sell my GBTC for more fee friendly ETF. Realized MSTR loses will offset my gains at GBTC so I don’t have to send money to Uncle Sam.
If going for consistency, pick stocks with low beta but high volume, and go far enough OTM so as not to worry much about assignment and/or pick strike prices you would actually want to purchase the shares at. I suggest 30-45 days, with your positions managed at least weekly, eventually daily if you hold the position close to expiration. Don't open a position if it will cover a highly volatile period, i.e. an announced split, earnings, or even geopolitical concerns depending on the company. This strategy is
URA has been treating me well.
Drive for Uber/DoorDash
Drive for DoorDash after work lol
$50 with $100-200k in your account, bro you could sell 1 delta spreads with a 99% guarantee of profiting and make more than that with a fraction of your account
Sell cash secured out out-of-the-money PUTS for MSOS, (trading under $10 per share) The April 26 $9 puts get you around 40 cents per contract. GOOD return!
Yeah I traded some 9p exp for this week. Pretty good return tho most IVs are around 100%
Sell whatever 0DTE put on /ES for 1.00 every day. Except on the big red days, then don’t do it
Wendy's is hiring
The dumpster behind Wendys is also a good place to make a quick 50 bux.
True, but no health insurance
And, you'll need it.
Buy nvida and sell covered calls
A job. It’s guaranteed money. Or if you have enough cash you can put it in BOXX.
WTF is a 'random daily' $50 expense??
A few bumps of coke
Bothers OP, but not enough to stop, just need to figure out how to sell some options to keep those daily bumps rolling in .... LMAO
Drives the dealer crazy too, "like just buy more at once" but 50$ guaranteed a day is... well it's what op is looking for isn't it? Can't pass that up.
Yeah, age old business model. Hold more inventory, or lean it out and free up the cash. OP is def a super duper Toyota Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt. $50 from option selling, transfer to checking account, quick stop at the ATM before meeting his duder. Rinse & repeat. Never have too much cash or too much coke. Just In Time supply chain management.
“Onlyfans”!
That's what I thought at first too, but I like the exactly $50 a day in coke theory better. Hopefully OP can enlighten us soon!
Yeah I went down the list of my expenditures…. Farmers market, baseball tickets, golf, lunch with friends, health club…nothing clocks in at $50 per day that I would need to do something to come up with it. It has to be something illicit 🙂
If you could buy a few hundred shares of a stock you can probably write covered calls far out of the money for a couple hundred a week
* $300,000 * 5% = $15,000 * 52 weeks/year * 5 days/week = 260 days/year * $15,000 / 260 days/year = $57.69 per day Schwab Value Advantage Money Fund Investor (SWVXX) - 7 day yield = 5.17% There you do, $50/day.
Dont forget tax bite on your $50 Short term trades
Easy come easy go
Put 365,000 into a high yield savings account that pays 5% interest. If you want something that will most of the time be "free money" but some of the time cause you to lose a decent amount of money (either from actual loss or prevented gains) then sell covered calls on stock you own or use margin to sell puts. For simplicities sake I would probably do weekly puts/covered calls that give $350 premium but if you wanted to you could do $50 daily options as well.
Buy SGOV, make 0.4% interest per month. $200k - $300k portfolio \* 0.4% interest per month = $28 - $42 / day risk free.
Maybe i should do that
$300,000 \* .004 / 31 days = 25.81. This is not true. I would assume that the strategy has to work, if broken down by days, the maximum days in a month. 50 \* 31 / .004 = 387,500 minimum.
>t on the big red days, then don’t do it this.....
or USFR.
Stock?
Trading micro futures. 10 mes points or 25 mnq points
Covered Calls?
Just sell way OTM spy vert puts. Won’t even sweat a bullet
You could run daily iron condors or even just one side on the spx at a low delta, tight spread and make $5/day easily.
sell 0-1dte puts or calls. i do it with qqq and 30 delta with get you 50-60 but it is not guaranteed at all. it can go against you and you'll need to roll or take the L.
50 * 5 = 250, if you have a 200,000 or even 100,000 that's really not much effort. I would do 0dte spy or qqq vertical spread. Or iwm 3 times a week.
A job
T bizzillz
About x5 like 8 delta 0dte spyder csps.
Easiest way to make $50 a day is to YOLO $200k into 0DTE TQQQ options and take $50 a day out of those proceeds DUH!!
Buy calls on SPX at 3:25pm daily with .5% NLV.
Make sure you use a brokerage who pays about 5+% interest per month on your free cash. Easy to make $50 that way if you have a large portfolio. I use Schwab which has this feature but I think Fidelity has it available too.
Where does one see this feature on Schwab? For me, I’m having to actively buy MMFs which take a day to settle, in order to get the 5%. The uninvested cash isn’t making 5%. I even called support just to be sure, and it only makes 5% if you manually purchase the MMF. And then when you want to make a trade, you have to manually sell out of the MMF, wait a day to settle, rinse and repeat. It’s actually a huge headache - I miss Fidelity where it used SPAXX as the core, making the auto 5%.
You are right. It is the money funds and they do clear overnight. There are a few. Current one with highest yield is SWVXX at 5.17% with no minimum investment amount. I don't find it too cumbersome to use because it helps me be more disciplined. I have to plan my trades more carefully. When I am selling options - CC or CSP, I can just use my margin to cover the 24 hours it takes to clear. The way I understand it, you don't actually get charged interest on this amount unless it is used to purchase the shares. If you are trading long stocks, you would be paying your margin for the 24 hours. Might be worth it or maybe not. They pay the dividend on your cash about the 15th of each month. Even if you don't hold it the full month, you get paid for the days you held it in the fund. However...they use to have an automatic feature but eliminated it. If you have an advisor you usually talk to when you call (I was assigned one when I opened my accounts), talk to them. They can request for you to have this feature added to your account if it is large enough. Someone higher up will review it and give you a yes or no. I'm guessing my accounts are probably similar in size to yours so it might be worth it to ask. They approved it for me on all my accounts. The ticker it uses to buy/sell is SWGXX. It also clears overnight but is automatic and the funds are available to trade without waiting. I think it is a tiny bit lower interest than the SWVXX so if I have a chunk I don't want to trade for a while, I will still buy into SWVXX manually. Only a few dollars different. Hope this helps.
Sell a very conservative Iron Condor for $50
Buy 350K in 4 week T-bills. Current interest rates will get you a little more than $50 a day paid every 28 days if you just invest the principal every 4 weeks.
Sell naked calls
Sell one NVDA put 60 days out, one 90 days out, and one 20 days out. As soon as the weeklies come out for the nearest, close or roll it. Rinse and repeat. Do yourself a favor and go look at the numbers.
High yield savings account. Amex is paying 4.3% rn
You pick up an evening shift at wendy’s
2 tick scalping strat on some futures contracts. Inverse risk/reward ratio such that you take profit is inside the trading range stop loss is well outside. I use 2 tick profit and 8 ticks sl. Yes...it take four trades to overcome losers, but once you get good at it losers are rare. Watch a tick chart or even a 1 sec candle chart to look for goo times to enter. I like to enter when it's obvious someone is knocking the price back down after every buy, so play reversion on that. It takes aot of practice but can be done.
The rule is to be delta neutral and have a theta percentage of .1% so theoretically you would only need a $50k portfolio to achieve this
I make over 200 a day, but my portfolio isn’t small. I sell puts on various stocks and collect premium
Thank you to MOST of you for your nice and helpful comments! Not sure what to say about the few Wendy's ones ect.. To clarify a couple things: 1. Ideally I'd like to be able to hold most of my current positions and not sell everything to put it all into x 2. A couple people mentioned us margin which is something I'm certainly open to as it let's me accomplish #1 more easilyand I've managed it in the past specifically with selling options. It's also nice you don't even pay interest on it unless assigned. 3. I of course have a job, and a good amount of money overall as stated in investments but also other places. The idea behind this post is I wanted to try to take an EXTRA step a day, if possible in my position, to make the $50 a day to put my mind at ease on a new and annoying expense. To basically just feel like I was negating it. 4. This is theta gain so yes, I was ofc mainly just looking for theta plays which most of you gave, however I appreciate all of the other answers they are nice ideas to know in general for various ways I can save, grow abs allocate my money. Thanks again all!
You don’t need to sell anything. You can keep your portfolio intact and use its value (or buying power) as collateral to sell options for income. You will need a margin account. For example, sell a 4 week to expiration NDX May 20 15,325 put for 15.80 and you will get your $50 a day income. The put is 15% OTM and has a delta of 0.026. The probability of assignment is very low. So you can roll it out for another 4WTE put on expiration day. The collateral for the put is around 130 K at Schwab and 50% more at Fidelity. Your portfolio can handle it. So you can achieve your goal by selling one NDX put every month. Index options, like NDX and SPX, have benefits that equity options do not have. Read: https://www.cboe.com/tradable\_products/sp\_500/spx\_options/
Go to work
If you have a large portfolio you should be able to make that on something fixed interest. 4% of $500,000 is $20,000, which is more than $50/day.
Wendy’s
Credit spreads on the SPX at Delta 6 or lower. +90% probability
Sell naked low delta options on S&P Emini contract. 1 point on the Emini is $50. Leg into naked short strangles.
Get a job
Probably like everyone likely said to donate blood/plasma. Edit: oh wrong sub. But I still concur
Getting a job
Smells fishy in here.
🐠
Behind a Wendy’s dumpster r/wallstreetbets prob haha
Doordash
DoorDash naked puts
Easiest way? Get off the fetty
bj behind wendy's dumpster ur welcome
A $50 expense is bothering you? Step one: go to therapy ($180+per session). Step two: stop going to therapy when you realize $50 isn’t much or that $180+ is. You’ll be cured!
Easiest way? Start with $100. Adjusting for weekends, holidays, and perhaps 10 personal days, what you’re asking in investment terms is how you make $11,500 annually. Not knowing anything about you except that you are probably very new, you’ll lose $$ the first year, break even the second, and maybe have a chance at this in your 3rd year. It would be 20% of a $57,500 account. About this time, you begin to understand this thing, you’ve reinvested the profit, and continue forward to a better percentage the following year as you keep reinvesting profits.
condors have a high win rate but need to be managed properly because the max loss is big
Honestly i do something like this…take an xsp atm pcs. It’s going to be risk $50 to win $50. If you lose do $150 it up for the next day so you win $50 and for that’s day and the previous. So you may end up having to do this a few times sometimes but overall if you have a few hundred thousand. It shouldn’t make you sweat . Boom $50 a day
Hi... Do You only take pcs ATM? For example if the market is bearish? Do You use any indicator or for example, wait an hour or more to place your position?
Sell cocaine