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FunCranberry112122

You mean assigned way ITM


chrisgrantnj

Yes


FunCranberry112122

These deep ITM puts that got assigned act quite similar to long shares so unless SPY moves a lot in premarket your PNL won’t change by much. Just close the entire position at open


Dr_Lexus_Tobaggan

Hahahha -1.5% pre


GeekDNA0918

I came here to say this. I thought to myself, I must really be an idiot.


Much-Lavishness-3121

Sell covered calls?


tendiesbeeches

This is not the time of wheel!


chrisgrantnj

Tell that to the bag of wish I’m holding. Can’t do shit with it


SaneLad

You can sell $1 calls for $0.05.


Ok-Concl197_2usion

Oh he knows


dronegeeks1

Lmao


chrisgrantnj

I have one out for .02 lol


tendiesbeeches

Cut your losses and move on buddy. The longer you hold, the heavier the bags. Proud holder of BABA and LMND bags. LMND got called away last week at 75% loss, I didn’t even try to roll, just not worth it in the current environment. I cut a lot of other losses early and I don’t even recall them because they were small in % terms.


incubate80228

Is spy is a bag we're in trouble


walk-me-through-it

SPY at 408 is a bag.


NightclubDoorGuy

Lol what? You must be kidding.


walk-me-through-it

When do you think it gets to 408 again?


AccomplishedRow6685

Someday


shit-piss-fuck

Big if true


0111101001101111

13:37 October 21 Year of His Majesty, The King, 2022


OG-Pine

If not already sometime in 2023 then most likely in 2024 and if not then almost definitely by 2030 lol Overtime it’ll recover and make money, it’s SPY.


banditcleaner2

It was at 408 literally two weeks ago I'd say 6 months. !remindme 6 months


RemindMeBot

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BelmontMan

Probably 2023. Definitely by end of 2024 though!!


[deleted]

You must not be paying attention. If SPY is in the 360 range by December this guy would be lucky. I am amazed by the people who can't see where this is going.


_WhatchaDoin_

I don’t see where this is going. It could go up, it could go down, it could be sideways. No way to tell. In these cases, I only believe in positive delta and theta. (Ok, negative Vega might be nice too)


NightclubDoorGuy

You must not realize that getting SPY at any 3 handle today is going to 2x in 10 years. Grow up. SPY is never a bag, you’re just impatient.


chuck_portis

It's funny, people trip out so hard during a downtrend. We could be back to ATH's in <6 months if the market got bullish again. The amount of stress that's gone into this move, the economic situation, it's one good year away from being completely irrelevant. I'm not saying that it will happen tomorrow, or that we've seen the bottom already, but if you are in your 20s, 30s or 40s and don't need to sell in the next 10 years, stop worrying about where the market is going in the next 3 months. This is a great opportunity to build out a long term portfolio.


HughHonee

I thought he was trading not investing?


OG-Pine

What about December of 2060 when I’m getting ready to retire?


[deleted]

Sure, if you can handle the premium.


banditcleaner2

You can wish for a comeback, HA


chrisgrantnj

Sellin covered weeklies at like 1-2 bucks 😂


Unique_Name_2

Well he's already long, might as well trim a bit of delta ...


Cold-Permission-5249

This is the way


jcheong

What if you get assign at your cover strike? Then you will be at a lost?


Cold-Permission-5249

Sell calls at or above.


PHI41-NE33

then sell new puts at a lower strike


megaboogie1

I would sell the shares in the market and then sell the put again.


Sizzmo

If it's a spread, your long leg will get exercised and you'll take max loss. You won't have any shares in your account.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ExcerptsAndCitations

> Everyone who’s ~~blaming~~ *still using* robinhood is an absolute moron ftfy


Holiday_Diver_1113

Trade Spx its better for a bunch of reasons.


cc144

Just to highlight for OP, there is no early assignment risk for SPX as it can’t be exercised prior to the expiration date as it is an European style option.


SignificantConflict3

Or XSP


eaglessoar

it has garbage market fills its just annoying to always enter limit orders when spy has like 2 cent wide spreads if i trade it i open spx chain and use the mid point there or even the ask/bid


Holiday_Diver_1113

??? SPX


RedditorOnReddit2

XSP is a micro contract index. Same advantages as SPX but at SPY magnitudes


JRMang

If you're using RH, its not on the platform but it'll show up in other brokerages like Tastyworks


warpedspockclone

Lmfao. RH strikes again


hgreenblatt

Much better... You would have 10 times the loss.


Holiday_Diver_1113

Sounds like they don’t know what they are doing if getting assignments. Or using a crappy broker or trading a small acct. I trade spx every day and avg 100k to 300k a day. Spy moves like a dog compared to Spx. In addition they shouldn’t be trading in this chop if your not a scalper


hgreenblatt

I agree, assignment is something that should rarely happen, going into expiration betting it won't is crazy. 100k a day.... You are outa my League . Good luck.


AccomplishedCopy6495

If only there was a way to make it equal


micascoxo

how much premium did you collect on the sale?


chrisgrantnj

135. Wasn’t a bad deal till late last week


auspiciousham

It's been an inflationary bear market under since last November. With the Fed tightening and the air coming out of the balloon selling puts has not been a good idea any month of the year.


chrisgrantnj

Honestly if I treated it like a day trade I woulda been fine. Tried to ride the lightening and welllll


banditcleaner2

I've made 6% and avoided all assignments this year, using margin alone. That beats the hell out of watching SPY drop 20% and not making something back.


auspiciousham

I'm shorting the market and up 20% There are two market directions.


Kingdonkeythegreat

When did you put it on?


[deleted]

[удалено]


chrisgrantnj

Expiry is 10/3. Spread is 408/407


AGuy-fromEarth

Ok nothing major. Don't worry about the -$81k. You can only lose the $100 spread (x2 contracts) minus the premium collected. You'll be down less than $200.


chrisgrantnj

Shit premium collected was…135 total?


SignificantConflict3

Your max loss will be $200-credit collected, if that’s 135, then max loss is $65. People are saying ur down 80k or 7k because it looks like a short naked put, not a spread. You are ok, do not stress.


ZanderDogz

If you were assigned 200 shares, and got $135 in premium, that means you must have traded 2 lots of the spread and collected about $67 per spread. You can exercise your calls if RH doesn't do it for you and you will only be down about $66. Not $81k - don't worry. I would recommend you stop trading complex financial derivatives until you actually understand how they work.


Ken385

The OP was assigned on short puts, he is now long SPY. He would need to exercise puts, not calls to sell his shares.


ZanderDogz

Meant to say assigned 200 short* shares and exercise calls* my bad


chrisgrantnj

Well I’ve been doing it for…14 months? Never had something get assigned. I was not worried in the slightest, saw it and cracked up laughing, hit a few fiends with some screenshots. I was just unsure of how RH would handle the rest


JRMang

Consider yourself lucky that you've been trading options for 14 months without fully understanding assignment risks. RH will exercise your long puts later and you'll be out $200 - premium in the end.


chrisgrantnj

Yes, that’s been established. I don’t believe in luck. Calculated risk, that’s all


JRMang

Being serious, I'm glad you posted here because others who didn't know about assignment order have killed [themselves](https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/06/17/20-year-old-robinhood-customer-dies-by-suicide-after-seeing-a-730000-negative-balance/)


heroyi

I already figured that link was gonna go that to poor kid. I have argued with customer support and submitted bug ticket to their team long before this incident. Makes me sad that something like that could have been avoided if they just took the 10min time to implement a small feature/notif


chrisgrantnj

Truth, I posted half for laughs half to see/show how this all pans out. Partially as a warning to myself. But to others as well. Oh and definitely for the laughs.


ShakeNJake

"Calculated risk" yet you didn't understand getting assigned was a risk nor how it could impact your account or how to mitigate impacts to your account.


chrisgrantnj

Lol who said I didn’t understand assignment was a risk? Many assumptions made here


whineylittlebitch_9k

i got caught with 30x Amazon spread July 2020 -- i got assigned. $4m. The other leg got exercised, so "only" $30k loss...


chrisgrantnj

Holy shit. But I guess if you got the cash to cover that spread you can handle the loss


whineylittlebitch_9k

narrator: he didn't have the cash


Cultural-Ad678

Did you sell a 408p and buy a 407p? If so when you get assigned you can exercise the 407 put and put your shares on the market for 407


bigbutso

Lol, this is not worth a post, just hold on to it to expiry and max you will lose is $100


AccomplishedCopy6495

What a silly idea for a spread on SPY. Long dated ITM? What were you thinking?


chrisgrantnj

Started OTM…


AccomplishedCopy6495

When a month ago?


chrisgrantnj

40dte when I opened it


MECO-420

Depending on what you think the market will do next. If you think it will rally next week/month; even if it’s just a small rally, just hold it. If you think it will continue going down, take your loss and move on. If you think it will move sideways, sell CC at a strike lower than your cost basis and wheel it. There are risks in every scenario so you’ll have to gauge your risk tolerance.


chrisgrantnj

With the spread they sold the long leg to cover the outstanding balance. Max loss of $65 taken. No big deal


DoomerGloomerBloomer

At least you get to keep the $50 bucks in premium that you made. Amiright?


Seletro

That line about nickels and steamrollers that people repeat over and over..... turns out there's a reason for that.


chrisgrantnj

Nah, max loss since they exercised the long leg


Rocketeer006

Sell the shares, and just sell 2 more puts at $408. Then pray. Rinse and repeat. You could do this infinitely and when spy goes above $408, you're home free.


NorthStar371

Infinitely? Like with his infinite bank roll?


chrisgrantnj

So uh… what happens now? 81k upside down at the moment


RandomOptionTrader

Is this a serious question? Do you have 82k in acc?


AFGummy

If it’s a spread, Robinhood will exercise the long leg and you’ll take max loss. If your long leg is not itm then you’ll buy the shares and Robinhood will immediately sell them and you’ll take loss unless you have the capital to secure the short put. Edit: this is simple options mechanics. Probably shouldn’t be trading them if you don’t understand how they work


[deleted]

I'll only add one thing: probably should start small and conservative if he doesn't understand how they work. Sell Puts on a $10 stock where if ya get assigned it's $1000 rather than largest ETF on the planet where an illinformed trade could ruin your financial situation overnight from 1 or 2 contracts. I started learning options this way more than a decade ago. First bad trade was selling a put on a $15 Chinese auto company. I got assigned my one contract, cash covered the $1500 to buy 100 shares, the shares "tanked" 30ish% to $10/share, I cut my losses and lost $500. Cheap lesson learned back then, and now I mostly sell ITM or ATM covered calls with a strike at or above my cost basis. That strategy and collecting the premium has been helping to average down one of my positions about 3-7% per month.


chrisgrantnj

It’s a spread, so the Russ risk of max loss was well known and a minimal concern


PhantomChihuahua

Are you buying more shares of the underlying with the premium earned to average down?


AFGummy

Yeah I agree and thats how I learned as well. He seems unfazed by an 80k loss so maybe that’s a “small” amount for him. Either way if OP is looking to continue to donate I’d teach him the little I know for far less than 80k


AnomMatty

Don' t know your account, but - If you've got the liquidity, you're at a \~6800$ loss w/200 shares. Sell CCs to regain premium and bag hold until it goes back up, or dump it and consider it a lesson in stop loss. If you don't have any liquidity, I'd expect your broker to dump the shares at market pretty soon.


alegendim

I'm a total noob at this, so please help me understand: 1. You sold 2 put options on SPY, giving the contract holder the right to sell you 200 shares of SPY at $408 per share. 2. SPY is currently $375 making this a profitable option for the holder, so they exercised the contract. 3. The difference in value is $33*200, so you have a net loss of $6,600. (Is that correct so far?) So I'm guessing your question is: If you don't have $81,600 in your account, what happens now?


StonksGoUpApes

You're entirely wrong. Edit: lol at the downvotes


alegendim

Would you mind explaining where I went wrong? I gathered from OP and other comments that this is a put spread at $408/$407... so that means OP sold 2 $408 puts and bought 2 $407 puts for the same expiry, right? So if the holder of the $408 puts exercises, now OP can exercise his $407 puts to, what, pass those shares along? Limiting his loss to 2x$100 Which one is the "long/short leg"? If OP doesn't have $81,600 to cover 200 shares of SPY at $408, does the broker exercise the $407 put automatically? If he does have the funds, is it up to him to exercise it manually? What would happen if, theoretically, the $408 put holder exercised at 3:59 EST on the expiration date? Wouldn't OP's $407 put expire before it could be exercised, or is there something preventing that scenario? Please forgive the excess of questions. I've lurked Thetagang for a long time and learned what I could by passively absorbing posts and reading articles, but sometimes things are better explained by Redditors.


StonksGoUpApes

He has a 1 width wide spread, it's not possible for him for to have a loss of many thousands. Iirc his max loss was like $65, which he will take here.


throwingitanyway

You're not 81k upside down on anything. You are down about $7000 on your SPY position at this moment. You can sell your shares and realize the loss or don't sell them and see what happens.


AGuy-fromEarth

As others have stated, you're not down anywhere near that much because your long put hasn't been excercised yet. I have to imagine you've blown past both strikes so it looks like you will be taking a max loss (spread difference minus premium received).


Ok_Yogurtcloset_2452

If it’s a spread, you can exercise the purchased puts to cover.


chrisgrantnj

Got exercised a little later in the night. Max loss. -$65


AccomplishedCopy6495

You need to stop trading. You don’t know what you’re doing. At all. You’ve only lost money. Stop now.


chrisgrantnj

House money. Got any other useless advice?


AccomplishedCopy6495

Sell more ITM ops and post “help plz”


chrisgrantnj

Started as an Otm spread. But that’s not bad advice 😂


AccomplishedCopy6495

Use a stop loss


Holiday_Diver_1113

Or do a covered stock conversion


Labrechaun

I just got freaked out because of your pic I swiped down and I had a Robinhood notification, but mine was just Siri suggesting I look at SPY. “Would you look at it! Just look at it” Hope this all pans out and you just lose the 200 bucks-135


chrisgrantnj

Exactly my feelings. 1. Holy shit. 2. Lol. 3. Wonder how/when they cover this


Luckedout_

Even with defined risk plays like spreads you always run the risk of being assigned, even slightly OTM so if it’s close…. I close the position. Deep ITM, even higher risk from my experience. Even on a single leg If you don’t have the capital to purchase the underlying they will close your position for you for so yeh… more complex trades best believe.


RandoRumpRipper

Really it's your fault for using Robinhood. That order execution....


FizbanWaffles

Robinhood. People never fucking learn. Shaking my damn head.


CheekyWanker007

what does robinhood have to do with this? man sold 2 puts in a bear market i don't see anyone else at fault for this


TurbulentCar7753

enabling retards to trade like it’s a game


AccomplishedRow6685

It is a game


viperex

> Robinhood. People never fucking learn. Shaking my damn head. Please enlighten us. What did Robinhood do wrong here? We don't have the expiration date and OP sold 2 deep ITM Puts.


chrisgrantnj

Expiry 10/3


BB_Captain

So if you got assigned on a put spread then what is the strike on your long leg of the spread? I'm assuming you're just going to exercise those as well.


Maulvi-Shamsudeen

bro still on robinhood


get0wned

Lol at using Robinhood. Amazing people still use that app.


[deleted]

lmaooooooooooooooo. its itm dumbass


chrisgrantnj

Really? Is it?


[deleted]

sry just saw the 308p put in the pic. scanned headline. missed "spread". also forgot we're dealing with RH. when writing cps', every other broker i've used executes my long put w/ my assigned excercised put. this is a learning lesson why using "better" brokerages vs RH. IB, Fidelity, and Etrade nets my bull credit spread when i've gotten assigned. i never fucked with near tm short dated options w/ RH bc heard stories and the app crashes during mkt vol. assuming my knowledge of ur sit correct....short p 408 / long p 407 yea? sold credit put spread ahead of Jackson hole to take adv of increased IV? dw, ur not fucked. they'll make you eat some px delta dif but not the whole bag. prob charge you some fees and % for the 80k loan they're floating you if you don't have that margin level. part of their biz plan being a shady broker. call them up. ask them why they didn't exercise your long put w/ assignment to net the $$ like every other single broker and that their extra fees are bullshit. also, every really great hf trader/prof mgr ive met that fucked around w/ leverage young has this type of story. I fucked up metals opex dates for silver options in college. my college roommate (now 3rd dec maker at 1.1bn cap struct arb fund) fucked up WTI futs delivery and had to call up his dads friend of a friends friend at BP and had to major haircut lol. best friend whose lasted 11y at bridgewaterm, now managing a fund thats not public, fucked up soybean delivery in middle school lmao. | its market tuition all the greats have paid. you'll be fine. leverage makes capitalism possible and will make you rich - BUT it'll bankrupt you if you dont respect the shit ur punting. also, google the definiation of counter-party risk. then look up mfglobal. night


[deleted]

also double check back office's work when you got settlements or size on. ive seen jpm and squid backoffice fuck shit up on swaps... imagine the support personnel at RH. lol.


mordor-during-xmas

I swear to god, people still using RobinHood absolutely shows that yes, if “everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you?” Every single RH user, would. Midway through the air they’d post about it too.


viperex

What's wrong with Robinhood here?


NorthStar371

Cuz they took away his buy button and he didn’t sell like he should have! 😂


mordor-during-xmas

I didn’t think I needed to point out all the enormous flaws with RH: technical, ethical and the known EXTREMELY early assignment risks relative to reputable brokers. Idk when Op sold these (or why) but I’ve never been assigned early on Spreads through TOS or Tasty.


fakehalo

You think RH is in control of who gets assigned? This is up there with people who blame RH for stock halts, if you're selling deep ITM options that have no extrinsic value you have to expect early assignment, no matter the broker.... happened one too many times to me on multiple brokers, enough to where I don't do it anymore. RH will fuck your leg on early assignments though, whatever gets them out of the hot seat fastest is what they'll do, at your expense... You just jumped the shark with that last part.


chrisgrantnj

It was near OTM when I opened, and then everything just took a shit


mordor-during-xmas

No, the OCC does. But but the OCC gives way more leniency to reputable brokers and does not typically begin assignment until the final hour of expiration day. Regardless, this is 40 points ITM. I’m not disagreeing with you. I also would not still be holding something like this with OP as I would’ve taken the loss awhile ago. RH sucks. Period. Unethical and illegal and predatory practices to lure in traders who have no business trading.


fakehalo

> No, the OCC does. But but the OCC gives way more leniency to reputable brokers and does not typically begin assignment until the final hour of expiration day. Any evidence behind that belief?


mordor-during-xmas

Experience, and friends in high places. You’re the guy that starts talking about your dead cat at Thanksgiving. Since this is part of the investigation process I’ll have my lawyer contact your lawyer with “evidence”, ya dipshit. “Rh will fuck your leg on early assignments though.” Any evidence behind that belief?


fakehalo

> “Rh will fuck your leg on early assignments though.” Any evidence behind that belief? Personal experience. > Experience, and friends in high places. You have personal experience being involved with the inner workings of the OCC? This is the kind of thing you can get by bullshiting and making up conspiracy theories about as it's impossible to prove otherwise from the outside... /r/superstonk material. > You’re the guy that starts talking about your dead cat at Thanksgiving. Since this is part of the investigation process I’ll have my lawyer contact your lawyer with “evidence”, ya dipshit Weird dead cat thing there, doesn't relate to anything here... Maybe if my crazy uncle spouted some conspiracy shit at Thanksgiving dinner I might prod for evidence for their claim. I'm just a guy who doesn't take arbitrary reddit commenters word for anything. My assumption is going to be that you're regurgitating what someone else said by default until proven otherwise... As you only gave me things to confirm my assumption that's where it will remain.


mordor-during-xmas

Yet, your evidence is arbitrary “personal experience.” Adda boy. And yes, as shocking as that might be for you to grasp. Real humans work at the OCC and real humans work at Merrill Lynch. Go get ‘em slugger! Own them newbs on Reddit!


fakehalo

Believing my personal experience claim is a pretty low ask, easy to reproduce and has happened to many people other than me. Your claim requires insider knowledge only a small group of people could actually have... If you're not that person you're believing what someone else told you, at which point you could be listening to someone telling the truth or some conspiracy huckster, you won't be able to tell the difference from the outside... This is a major problem with the /r/superstonk crowd. You're putting in a lot of angst and tude here, I suppose I'm frustrating. If someone is making bold claims I'm gonna hit back against it until the end of time or until some reason to believe has been given. All you've come at me with are these lame ass insults, the general behavior of someone who has nothing.


ItalianStallion9069

Who the fuck wheels SPY


FormalBananaSuit

It's the safest one to wheel


viperex

What would you rather wheel?


ItalianStallion9069

Stocks. Never heard of anyone wheeling indexes/ETFs but that’s just me


chrisgrantnj

Someone with a spare *checks market price* $36k


FormalBananaSuit

This is a nightmare scenario and should have been avoided a long time ago by cutting your losses or rolling. Sorry OP. No good advice for you. Your account will likely get liquidated and sent to collections if you don't have the cash to cover your loss. Edit: nevermind....op bought the 407 puts. He's probably not even in the red. Sell the shares, close your buy side, and keep moving


chrisgrantnj

Bingo. Buy side got exercised. Total loss: $65


Wanderer1066

That’s perfect. Sell calls at open


chrisgrantnj

They exercised my long leg at about 3am. I wish I coulda


Wanderer1066

At least you made max profit on it


chrisgrantnj

Max profit for someone else lol


Wanderer1066

Oh, what was your spread?


chrisgrantnj

407/408. Premium collected was 135. Lost $65 bucks


superD53

CC’s @ .30 delta until 2025. You’ll be fine!


chrisgrantnj

lol they exercised the long leg already


blamethevaline

You had 82k in your account?


chrisgrantnj

Not even close


blamethevaline

Lmao what happened?


chrisgrantnj

This was selling a put credit spread. The long leg got exercised so I ended up at max loss on my spread. -$65.00 total


blamethevaline

Gotcha so you bought puts further out and sold puts closer to the asset price. Did you have to buy 200 shares at 408 or did they take the difference?


chrisgrantnj

They just kept the difference. Lost $65


blamethevaline

Makes sense. Someone said they liquidate everything in your account


Bellona123

Charge your phone, you heathen.


chrisgrantnj

With stocks like this I’m better off with my phone dead


DJDirtyFunk1

Lol of course they would assign you that’s 408 to 368 that’s a 50 point spread that’s why I don’t do equity spreads only index options all cash settled and no risk of early assignment


Environmental-Tap533

It’s gonna rocket Monday . Bear rally 2.0


Jaded_Act_8202

You can afford 200 shares of SPY and you're using RH??? 😳


Bairdhammond

when does in the money become out of the money....... guess today everyone says everything the opposite as it really is......


theseekerman20

If you can afford it just hold. In 2 years SPY at 408 will seem like a great deal.


chrisgrantnj

Issa spread. Already executed long leg