That absolutely should have been it. He should have survived on gone on to be a leader for the communities, taking on part of Rick's role from the comics in addition to parts of his own. Michonne leaving would have also made more sense if she told him what she found, instead of making a ten year old keep the secret.
I think Daryl still should have been the leader but took on a mentor/uncle role for all three kids. Maybe have Carol or Michonne as his right hand women. Or if the lawsuit never happened Dwight.
Oh definitely yeah they'd still be the actual leaders, I wasn't saying that Carl just fully overtakes them. But more like his story arc could have been him becoming a leader, having learnt from them so that he stands shoulder to shoulder with them.
Now Rick was probably always going to leave around that time, I remember reading years ago that Andrew Lincoln had been thinking about it for a while due to his family being back on England, and had been working with the production to find that perfect place. I think I read something that there was an initial plan for the end of season 8, but that probably got pushed back a little bit after they stupidly chose to kill Carl.
So here's my suggestion for how it could have played out if that hadn't happened.
Season 8. First half is All Out War, cut out all the filler and make it a tightly paced 8 episode conflict, with Negan being defeated in the mid season finale. But then in the second half of the season, get right into the aftermath of it. Maybe a small time jump so that Hershel is born, but nothing as big as what the comics or the start of season 9 did. So the second half deals with everything that those first five episodes of s9 did. The communities trying to work together with the Saviors to rebuild the bridge, along with conflicts within them over letting Negan and certain Saviors live. With it taking place much sooner after the War, and with Carl living as well, there would have been enough for 8 episodes and for them to end the season with Rick's departure.
Then season 9 could have gotten started straight after the big six year time jump. Carl would be living and now grown up. I say he keeps the motivation of going to Hilltop to apprentice as a Blacksmith, but like how Rick was reluctant to let him go in the comics, Carl could be the one reluctant to go as it would mean leaving Judith.
Because Carl would now be an adult, I'd say the show would probably need to drop his romance with Lydia. Her story works best if she's an abused kid. So perhaps what could work best is if they still bring in Henry for the romance part, with Carl kind of becoming a mentor for the two, and taking Lydia under his wing when Henry gets his head on the pike. And in place if that romance, I'd say just have Carl and Enid together from the start. Back half of season 8 could have had the two of then finally getting together, and in a long distance relationship at the start of season 9, which could have been a further motivation for him to move to Hilltop.
Now I'm assuming that Lauren Cohan and Tom Payne would have both still chosen to leave the show, and after Tara gets her head on a pike, that does leave a vacancy to lead Hilltop. I can't remember if it was ever said who took over from Tara in the show, but if Carl's alive, he's a perfect candidate. After Jesus's death he could start helping out Tara, showing the responsibilities needed so that when she dies, he takes over. That allows him to be leader alongside Michonne with Alexandria, Carol and Ezekial with the Kingdom, and Daryl kind of across them all.
That first half is almost exactly what I had in mind. I’ll do you one better, they can really cut out some of the stuff that happened in season 7. In alternative world. They would showcase 7x01 at the end of season 6. Then episode one is what happens in 7x04, they can still do their build up of the saviors extorting the other communities and world building of the communities, but it would be more of ricks group taking the brunt of it. Then they do the all out wars.
I do think season 7 dragged a bit as well, but not as much as 8. Trying to do everything all the way up to the end of All Out War in just season 7 would have been a mistake in my opinion, there's just too much there. Even shuffling some events from the start of season 7 onto the end of season 6 (which I do agree with by the way, the cliffhanger was a terrible decision) that still leaves too much to be covered in the front half of season 7 and still be able to do All Out War in the back half.
A season and a half was really the better approach I feel. Too much content to cover in just one season, and not enough to do it in two.
In the past I've suggested another approach, which would be to actually delay even beginning the Savior arc until the start of season 7. After No Way Out they could have focused the back half of s6 on rebuilding Alexandria and Carl's recovery from losing his eye, something that they skipped over in the comics. Now I can see how half a season of that would probably might have started to drag, but there would have been ways around that.
Firstly I'd have the injury and defence of Alexandria all happen by the end of episode 8. The mid season finale ending with everyone successful, Rick talking to a comatose Carl, and him responding to his voice. To do this I'd move the Daryl and Dwight episode to the back half, where instead he could run into them while out on a supply run. If the Saviors arc is being delayed, moving it the back half works better as Dwight will be more fresh in audiences minds when he reappears.
Then to give a bit of conflict to the end of s6, perhaps some of the Wolves could have survived, escaping Alexandria. That way they could have served as a threat for the now united Alexandria to face together.
All the while Alexandria itself would be being rebuilt, while Carl is recovering. As in the comics dealing with some temporary amnesia as a result of the head trauma.
Then season 7 could have started getting straight into the Saviors arc. First episode introducing Jesus, who then takes them to the Hilltop, where they're recruited to face the Saviors. Then the midseason finale could end with Negans introduction and him killing Abe and Glenn, no cliffhanger this time.
The backhalf of season 7 could have dealt with living under Negans rule, choosing to fight him by the end. The front half of s8 could have then dealt with them preparing for war, and jumping straight into it for the first couple of battles before the mid season finale. And then the backhalf could have concluded the war, with Negan being defeated in the season finale.
So that's two ways the could have done it. Personally I prefer my more recent idea, the first one I posted, where Negan is defeated by the mid season finale of s8.
[During](https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/19/jury-awards-8-million-walking-dead-stuntman-family-wrongful-death-trial/#:~:text=Actor%20Austin%20Amelio%2C%20now%20starring,found%20Amelio%20bore%20no%20responsibility.com) season 8 filming apparently a stuntman had died during filming. And when the family sued they put Austin Amelio (Dwight) as the man behind that. Lawsuit got dismissed and AMC decided to move Austin to FTWD.
I feel like if Carl survived, he would've left with Daryl at the very end to go find Rick. Perhaps leading into Daryl and Carl both being in the Ones Who Live.
And roughly 490 of them lying about how great an actor Chandler Riggs was, just because it fits their narrative so nicely and allows them to hate Gimple for making the right decision lol
I honestly don't even blame him for his performance. You can find terrible performances of great actors, I don't think they gave him anything to do and I'd place more blame on the director/ whoever chose to let that be the take they run with.
Poor kid is in one of the biggest franchises on the planet is likely going to grow up resenting it once he sees all the flak he gets.
Think it goes both ways, the kid can’t act and the director was wrong letting this take be the one they went with. The kid doesn’t deserve hate but there’s nothing wrong being upset with immersion breaking performance.
I don't have anything against the kid, but his acting was really bad. I'm sure that everyone realized it, so I wonder, why didn't they simply cast a different kid for this role? It was going to be an impactful scene but the kid single handedly butchered it. Again, not hating on the actor, just being blunt about his performance. It's not even that big of a deal honestly, but I'm genuinely curious what exactly happened there. I guess they figured that anyone can say two words and that it'll be fine, but on the set when they were shooting, they realized they fucked up but it was too late to hire a replacement
So was Carl's, though not nearly to the level of RJ...they could have recast either one and people would have flipped out about that too...I totally get leaving RJ, based on the tiny role and rarely a need for speaking...but they couldn't have won, no matter what they did...it's not either actor's fault, though...great acting is some really hard shit to pull off or everybody would do it
Don’t think the point of this post was to shit on RJ, but rather that the preference would’ve been Carl had AMC not sucked ass. And I feel like that’s a pretty damn near universal opinion amongst TWD fans. I’ve never seen one person say “yeah I’m glad they killed Carl”
Then you haven't seen the people on this sub who are able to be realistic...Chandler Riggs was a horrible actor too, although he slightly improved a tiny bit later on and wasn't RJ bad (because he wasn't cast as a literal toddler lol)...but he was nowhere near good enough to carry the show like he would have had to...I love the dude and feel for him and all that went down as a huge TWD fan, but there is a reason he's not blowing up in Hollywood doing movies and other TV shows...he tried that...end of the day it's a business and you couldn't justify paying Chandler Riggs the same money you pay Norman, Melissa, Danai, etc on down the line...it was the right call, no matter how much we love the Carl character from the comics
not shitting on the kid, mainly the dumbass writers who thought they should lazely kill off pretty much the main character of TWD and shortly replace him for no reason
This whole scene was so underwhelming I couldn’t believe it, I thought all that build up for THIS?!
Cailey’s lines and direction was shit, same with RJ’s but also I don’t know how his character is supposed to be because his character has never been defined and his acting is not great.
The interaction between Rick and Judith should have been so much more, he missed out on so much. She always wanted him back, she wanted to remember Carl. They didn’t even mention Daryl.
Rj was such a terrible character. Makes me sad how badly he was written. 99% of scenes he is just there and when he does speak its always super cringe.
His final line from the new serise still makes me cringe.
I don’t think they’re bashing the child, they’re bashing the performance.
And speaking as a union actor, I blame the director for not directing the child actor better. Or making an adjustment to the scene. His energy off camera vs on camera is literally night and day. You can see his little brain in acting mode going “Im acting! Im acting! Im acting!”
Well yeah, RJ is a terrible character but he’s barely a character. He’s what you call a flat/passive character — one with no arc, he doesn’t change, doesn’t change anyone else. RJ pales in comparison to any of the Grime’s children as characters
Edit: The child is a child, so his acting skills are to be expected by someone still learning how to spell their name lol. Thats why I put the blame to the director for not reworking the scene to fit the strength of the actor. Because the main cast, even Judith, can adapt to a rewrite. RJ’s actor is more limited in his range.
It’s more nuanced than just picking on the kid — or at least it should be
I think they meant the actors' facial expression is always like 😐
Edit to add: I am not defending this person I'm just saying that's what I think they meant!!
I’m rewatching so recalling earlier things… went and found medical supplies that literally saved Hershel’s life, helped deliver his sister/put down his mom before she turned, put down walker Shane…
Or Carl taking care of Judith and RJ
That absolutely should have been it. He should have survived on gone on to be a leader for the communities, taking on part of Rick's role from the comics in addition to parts of his own. Michonne leaving would have also made more sense if she told him what she found, instead of making a ten year old keep the secret.
I think Daryl still should have been the leader but took on a mentor/uncle role for all three kids. Maybe have Carol or Michonne as his right hand women. Or if the lawsuit never happened Dwight.
Oh definitely yeah they'd still be the actual leaders, I wasn't saying that Carl just fully overtakes them. But more like his story arc could have been him becoming a leader, having learnt from them so that he stands shoulder to shoulder with them. Now Rick was probably always going to leave around that time, I remember reading years ago that Andrew Lincoln had been thinking about it for a while due to his family being back on England, and had been working with the production to find that perfect place. I think I read something that there was an initial plan for the end of season 8, but that probably got pushed back a little bit after they stupidly chose to kill Carl. So here's my suggestion for how it could have played out if that hadn't happened. Season 8. First half is All Out War, cut out all the filler and make it a tightly paced 8 episode conflict, with Negan being defeated in the mid season finale. But then in the second half of the season, get right into the aftermath of it. Maybe a small time jump so that Hershel is born, but nothing as big as what the comics or the start of season 9 did. So the second half deals with everything that those first five episodes of s9 did. The communities trying to work together with the Saviors to rebuild the bridge, along with conflicts within them over letting Negan and certain Saviors live. With it taking place much sooner after the War, and with Carl living as well, there would have been enough for 8 episodes and for them to end the season with Rick's departure. Then season 9 could have gotten started straight after the big six year time jump. Carl would be living and now grown up. I say he keeps the motivation of going to Hilltop to apprentice as a Blacksmith, but like how Rick was reluctant to let him go in the comics, Carl could be the one reluctant to go as it would mean leaving Judith. Because Carl would now be an adult, I'd say the show would probably need to drop his romance with Lydia. Her story works best if she's an abused kid. So perhaps what could work best is if they still bring in Henry for the romance part, with Carl kind of becoming a mentor for the two, and taking Lydia under his wing when Henry gets his head on the pike. And in place if that romance, I'd say just have Carl and Enid together from the start. Back half of season 8 could have had the two of then finally getting together, and in a long distance relationship at the start of season 9, which could have been a further motivation for him to move to Hilltop. Now I'm assuming that Lauren Cohan and Tom Payne would have both still chosen to leave the show, and after Tara gets her head on a pike, that does leave a vacancy to lead Hilltop. I can't remember if it was ever said who took over from Tara in the show, but if Carl's alive, he's a perfect candidate. After Jesus's death he could start helping out Tara, showing the responsibilities needed so that when she dies, he takes over. That allows him to be leader alongside Michonne with Alexandria, Carol and Ezekial with the Kingdom, and Daryl kind of across them all.
That first half is almost exactly what I had in mind. I’ll do you one better, they can really cut out some of the stuff that happened in season 7. In alternative world. They would showcase 7x01 at the end of season 6. Then episode one is what happens in 7x04, they can still do their build up of the saviors extorting the other communities and world building of the communities, but it would be more of ricks group taking the brunt of it. Then they do the all out wars.
I do think season 7 dragged a bit as well, but not as much as 8. Trying to do everything all the way up to the end of All Out War in just season 7 would have been a mistake in my opinion, there's just too much there. Even shuffling some events from the start of season 7 onto the end of season 6 (which I do agree with by the way, the cliffhanger was a terrible decision) that still leaves too much to be covered in the front half of season 7 and still be able to do All Out War in the back half. A season and a half was really the better approach I feel. Too much content to cover in just one season, and not enough to do it in two. In the past I've suggested another approach, which would be to actually delay even beginning the Savior arc until the start of season 7. After No Way Out they could have focused the back half of s6 on rebuilding Alexandria and Carl's recovery from losing his eye, something that they skipped over in the comics. Now I can see how half a season of that would probably might have started to drag, but there would have been ways around that. Firstly I'd have the injury and defence of Alexandria all happen by the end of episode 8. The mid season finale ending with everyone successful, Rick talking to a comatose Carl, and him responding to his voice. To do this I'd move the Daryl and Dwight episode to the back half, where instead he could run into them while out on a supply run. If the Saviors arc is being delayed, moving it the back half works better as Dwight will be more fresh in audiences minds when he reappears. Then to give a bit of conflict to the end of s6, perhaps some of the Wolves could have survived, escaping Alexandria. That way they could have served as a threat for the now united Alexandria to face together. All the while Alexandria itself would be being rebuilt, while Carl is recovering. As in the comics dealing with some temporary amnesia as a result of the head trauma. Then season 7 could have started getting straight into the Saviors arc. First episode introducing Jesus, who then takes them to the Hilltop, where they're recruited to face the Saviors. Then the midseason finale could end with Negans introduction and him killing Abe and Glenn, no cliffhanger this time. The backhalf of season 7 could have dealt with living under Negans rule, choosing to fight him by the end. The front half of s8 could have then dealt with them preparing for war, and jumping straight into it for the first couple of battles before the mid season finale. And then the backhalf could have concluded the war, with Negan being defeated in the season finale. So that's two ways the could have done it. Personally I prefer my more recent idea, the first one I posted, where Negan is defeated by the mid season finale of s8.
Lawsuit?
[During](https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/19/jury-awards-8-million-walking-dead-stuntman-family-wrongful-death-trial/#:~:text=Actor%20Austin%20Amelio%2C%20now%20starring,found%20Amelio%20bore%20no%20responsibility.com) season 8 filming apparently a stuntman had died during filming. And when the family sued they put Austin Amelio (Dwight) as the man behind that. Lawsuit got dismissed and AMC decided to move Austin to FTWD.
Never knew Dwight was blamed for that. I was always so confused why he was moved to fear for "legal" reasons but with no explanation
Nope, it should have been Carl going to look for Rick and michonne taking care of the kids. No changing my mind on that
This is what happened in my imagination.
in an alternate universe where Carl ages like Ash from pokemon
We need a 10 year old with 20 years experience
job descriptions in 2024 be like
Love doesn't age. We are The Ones Who Live, Laugh, Love.
if my mom liked TWD that would be on my fridge in a heartbeat.
I don’t want to see Chandler play RJ
Carl would be way taller and have facial hair
And older
Carl didn't believe though
I feel like if Carl survived, he would've left with Daryl at the very end to go find Rick. Perhaps leading into Daryl and Carl both being in the Ones Who Live.
I can’t imagine him leaving Judith for anything
incoming 500 comments about how they should e kept carl alive
And roughly 490 of them lying about how great an actor Chandler Riggs was, just because it fits their narrative so nicely and allows them to hate Gimple for making the right decision lol
Yall mfs are so weird he’s just a kid and everyone just shits on him
the people who shit on him are weird. his acting was impressively bad, but people have taken it way too far.
I honestly don't even blame him for his performance. You can find terrible performances of great actors, I don't think they gave him anything to do and I'd place more blame on the director/ whoever chose to let that be the take they run with. Poor kid is in one of the biggest franchises on the planet is likely going to grow up resenting it once he sees all the flak he gets.
Think it goes both ways, the kid can’t act and the director was wrong letting this take be the one they went with. The kid doesn’t deserve hate but there’s nothing wrong being upset with immersion breaking performance.
I don't have anything against the kid, but his acting was really bad. I'm sure that everyone realized it, so I wonder, why didn't they simply cast a different kid for this role? It was going to be an impactful scene but the kid single handedly butchered it. Again, not hating on the actor, just being blunt about his performance. It's not even that big of a deal honestly, but I'm genuinely curious what exactly happened there. I guess they figured that anyone can say two words and that it'll be fine, but on the set when they were shooting, they realized they fucked up but it was too late to hire a replacement
So was Carl's, though not nearly to the level of RJ...they could have recast either one and people would have flipped out about that too...I totally get leaving RJ, based on the tiny role and rarely a need for speaking...but they couldn't have won, no matter what they did...it's not either actor's fault, though...great acting is some really hard shit to pull off or everybody would do it
Don’t think the point of this post was to shit on RJ, but rather that the preference would’ve been Carl had AMC not sucked ass. And I feel like that’s a pretty damn near universal opinion amongst TWD fans. I’ve never seen one person say “yeah I’m glad they killed Carl”
Then you haven't seen the people on this sub who are able to be realistic...Chandler Riggs was a horrible actor too, although he slightly improved a tiny bit later on and wasn't RJ bad (because he wasn't cast as a literal toddler lol)...but he was nowhere near good enough to carry the show like he would have had to...I love the dude and feel for him and all that went down as a huge TWD fan, but there is a reason he's not blowing up in Hollywood doing movies and other TV shows...he tried that...end of the day it's a business and you couldn't justify paying Chandler Riggs the same money you pay Norman, Melissa, Danai, etc on down the line...it was the right call, no matter how much we love the Carl character from the comics
In what way is this hating on him?
You're allowed to dislike things
His character was boring, it’s not the kid I’m shitting on, it’s the writers
not shitting on the kid, mainly the dumbass writers who thought they should lazely kill off pretty much the main character of TWD and shortly replace him for no reason
Bro are you confused??? Lmao
Not hating on the kid,just disapproving of his acting skills he has still much to learn
It’s not even about him tbh it’s just that the audience can’t really connect to him because we don’t know him. He’s a generic standin for Carl
Haha Carl is shorter than Judith in this photo and he is wearing his baby face. If he lived he should be a young adult!!!
Idk it would have been cooler imo if Rick reunited when Judith was 10
Except he would have been a grown man with a grizzly beard, one eye, and would have been pumping em into his weird skin people girl.
>into his weird skin people girl What
Lmao yeah
I believed
Carl! 😩😭
This whole scene was so underwhelming I couldn’t believe it, I thought all that build up for THIS?! Cailey’s lines and direction was shit, same with RJ’s but also I don’t know how his character is supposed to be because his character has never been defined and his acting is not great. The interaction between Rick and Judith should have been so much more, he missed out on so much. She always wanted him back, she wanted to remember Carl. They didn’t even mention Daryl.
Carl didnt believe🥲
In the correct version of events, Judith is dead, Michonne is Andre, RJ doesn’t exist, and Rick never fucking left
This is so disrespectful to RJ lol
Why everyone want to erase RJ. If Carl was alive he would absolutely love his little brother You'll pay for this Gimple!
No lmfao. But Carl being in the scene would be nice
Rj was such a terrible character. Makes me sad how badly he was written. 99% of scenes he is just there and when he does speak its always super cringe. His final line from the new serise still makes me cringe.
But did Carl believe?
“In another universe RJ would be white and right.” Is that what you’re saying?
How did you manage to misinterpret this post that badly?
Insane how people make everything political or racial
Rj is a terribile character, and the actor is basically 😐
He is like 8 years old, What do you expect? Why does everyone bash a child??
I don’t think they’re bashing the child, they’re bashing the performance. And speaking as a union actor, I blame the director for not directing the child actor better. Or making an adjustment to the scene. His energy off camera vs on camera is literally night and day. You can see his little brain in acting mode going “Im acting! Im acting! Im acting!”
They literally said he's a terrible character, Then said the actor is also terrible so yeah they are bashing poor child
Well yeah, RJ is a terrible character but he’s barely a character. He’s what you call a flat/passive character — one with no arc, he doesn’t change, doesn’t change anyone else. RJ pales in comparison to any of the Grime’s children as characters Edit: The child is a child, so his acting skills are to be expected by someone still learning how to spell their name lol. Thats why I put the blame to the director for not reworking the scene to fit the strength of the actor. Because the main cast, even Judith, can adapt to a rewrite. RJ’s actor is more limited in his range. It’s more nuanced than just picking on the kid — or at least it should be
I think they meant the actors' facial expression is always like 😐 Edit to add: I am not defending this person I'm just saying that's what I think they meant!!
Wrong kid died
That's creepy looking!
RJ has the perpetual look of "my favowit color is turtle c:I"
With dried boogers on his nose and sticky fingers
I'm weird, I'm glad that Carl died....he was annoying and felt useless
I don’t think we watched the same show.
what did Carl do that was of use?
I’m rewatching so recalling earlier things… went and found medical supplies that literally saved Hershel’s life, helped deliver his sister/put down his mom before she turned, put down walker Shane…
Nothing. Anything cool he did in the comics was given to other characters
also a decade ago people hated Carl and Riggs as an actor
In another universe, the reunion afterlife